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gypsy33's avatar

Beautifully said, dear Caitlin.

I want peace, prosperity and freedom to determine their own destinies for these people.

I want them to be able to attend school and choose their future( indeed I want them to HAVE a future.)

I want them to no longer have to listen to the sounds of drones and explosions.

I want them to survive.

Most of all, I beg their forgiveness for being an Amerikkkan. 😢

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Klaus Hubbertz's avatar

Don't worry for your being Amerikkkan ...

On a global scale, governments and people, since long are two entirely different entities.

Palestinians know.

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Les's avatar

Cognitive Dissonance - In the fundamental character of humans, most of them.

It is not about to change . . .

___________

You don't require forgiveness.

You don't write Washington Foreign Policy.

___________

Those who do do not require forgiveness.

They require gaol . . .

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Raveen's avatar

Nicely said.

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Not so young anymore.'s avatar

I think all kids from Gaza should go to schools where they are not taught to hate Israel.

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Klaus Hubbertz's avatar

🤣🤣🤣

Please be so kind and go, recycle yourself as a Palestinian, live 75 years under occupation, the last 15 ones in an open-air concentration camp and post again ...

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Not so young anymore.'s avatar

Hmm. There is a border with Egypt. Did you know that?

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Klaus Hubbertz's avatar

The Zionist state and the Gaza-strip have a border with Egypt, yes I did know that. Do you imply that Gazan Palestinians should be forcibly removed to the other side in order for the Zionist's wet-dream come partially true ?

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Not so young anymore.'s avatar

Ha ha the open air concentration camp lie again. What a fucking joke.

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hierochloe's avatar

it's actually good that you hasbara bots keep at it here so people don't start thinking anything is really changing for the better

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Klaus Hubbertz's avatar

Just read my recent post to "Not so young anymore" ...🤣🤣

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Klaus Hubbertz's avatar

{...lie again..., fuc8ing joke...} ???🤔🤔

Please be so kind as to let us have YOUR personal description of the Gaza strip confined

- by 6 meter high concrete walls,

- continuing, God knows how many meters below ground to prevent tunnels

- countless watch towers at short distance, all equipped with automated shooting devices, cameras and movement-sensors,

- thousand of kilometers of deployed razor-wire on its top,

- access or exit through high-security gates only and

- supply of water, electricity, food, communication fully under Zionist-authority.

Not even to mention the current affairs with daily bombing of civilians, and preventing food and medication getting in.

But maybe,

- you have been living under a rock since 14.05.48 and specially after 07.10.23 and have not yet grasped the severity of the situation; then it would be high-time to try to educate yourself or

- you're a hard-core Zionist, one of those who calls the Palestinians and the "rest of humanity" human animals and dreams of having 2000 Goyim-servants at his dailypersonal, private command.

Whatever suits you best, it's fine with me.

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karl pomeroy's avatar

Maybe they should go to schools where they're not being bombed by Israel.

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gypsy33's avatar

I wish kids in IsraHell would go to schools where they’re not taught that Palestinians are “animals”.

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Helene krohn's avatar

It's not only the Palestinians that the Talmudists and even some Torah Jews call "animals". All non-Jews are animals to them. Remember that "goyim" means "cattle". They would do the same to us as they do to the Palestinians if they had the chance. Sad but true.

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gypsy33's avatar

Agree Helen!

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Not so young anymore.'s avatar

Can you actually write ‘Israel’ or do you have like a funny little immature breakdown ?

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gypsy33's avatar

Nope.

It’s ISRAHELL.

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Not so young anymore.'s avatar

You ever been there? It’s very nice

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Ambreen's avatar

Absolutely certain it’s almost perfect for those who haven’t been humiliated and dehumanized for as long as they can remember

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Mike Fish's avatar

It was, before 1948.

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Deena Stryker's avatar

It has to start the other way around.......

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spingerah's avatar

What are you? Amerikkkan

What a dipshit, go fuck yourself.

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gypsy33's avatar

Do the same yourself with a sharp stick.

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Not so young anymore.'s avatar

I poisoned your well,bitch

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gypsy33's avatar

I kicked your ass, old fuck.

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Not so young anymore.'s avatar

You drinking too much?

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David Avenell's avatar

I do hope that curse doesn't cover what I wish for Zionist fascists. If it does I might be in trouble.

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Claude Lord's avatar

It doesn’t, it can’t. One is of love, the other of hate and evil.

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David Avenell's avatar

Well we are told we should love our enemies and those people are my enemy because here in Australia, as with every other country, they interfere with our domestic politics.

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Claude Lord's avatar

I believe loving someone doesn’t mean being ‘nice’ to them, just like loving your children doesn’t entail being subservient to them. Love your enemy enough to care to disagree, scold, reprimand, disagree and scorn when warranted.

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Fran's avatar

What about Netanyahu, or Gallant who perceive the Palestinians as animals, and trust me it's not because of the attack by Hamas. That's how the Palestinians have always been perceived by such people which gives them permission to marginalize them and treat them as disposable. Netanyahu, the megalomaniac is running out of time to accomplish what he has always wanted, their removal, and if it means genocide, so be it.

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Francis/Clare's avatar

Animals should be respected and treated just as well as humans.

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gypsy33's avatar

Hi Lisa

If the Gazans are “animals”, they’re much, much better than the filth that is humankind.

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Just sayn's avatar

It's not only Netanyahu, it is every Zionist;

"Our race is the master race! We are divine God's on this planet. We are as different from the inferior races as they are from insects. Other races are beasts and animals, cattle at best. Our Destiny is to Rule over the inferior races, the masses will lick our feet and serve as Our Slaves!" - Menachem Begin, founder of the Likud

An evil pervasive ideology!

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dubbydove1@yahoo.com's avatar

I seriously doubt that he ever said that, but I will do some research. Ever hear of the Pope's Doctrine of Discovery - written in 1493? Or ever hear of Adolf Hitler? Apparently a friend of yours.

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dubbydove1@yahoo.com's avatar

Kinda like the European Christian white male overlords have treated the first people of just about every country they've colonized which pretty much covers the entire earth.

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Fran's avatar

I'm afraid he's a lost cause. Most Israeli's want him gone. To me he's a megalomaniac. Some would call him profoundly narcissistic. I never liked him from decades ago. He is someone unfortunately who will never even come to acknowledge his many flaws. I look at my own country, America, no different in many ways except we kill far afield, and one country after another, and now provide the weapons for a genocide. Pray is right.

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Fran's avatar

I guess there is always hope.

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karl pomeroy's avatar

Honestly, at 75, I still have no idea how to treat other people. I just hope God guides me.

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Susan T's avatar

god doesn't know how to treat people either, so it might be better to look somewhere else for help

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karl pomeroy's avatar

Oh dear. Maybe the spirit within?

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Klaus Hubbertz's avatar

Maybe, that's the main reason Elon wants to travel to Mars ...

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Juantastico's avatar

brilliant

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gypsy33's avatar

Karl:

Treat them with kindness if they deserve it.

Treat them with scorn if they don’t.

Fuck that “love thy enemy” bullshit.

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Klaus Hubbertz's avatar

SHOW your enemy with full respect that he IS your enemy !!

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Francis/Clare's avatar

So well said, Caitlin🫶

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Not so young anymore.'s avatar

The Joos

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dubbydove1@yahoo.com's avatar

Only "zionist" fascists? I guess Christian fascists or Muslim fascists are all okay in your book.

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David Avenell's avatar

Excuse me Dubby, but Caitlins' piece is about Zionists, mass murder of children and genocide. If I post a comment I prefer to stick to the subject. How you get your ridiculous assertion from my comment is anybodys guess.

P.S. Caitlin has also said on many occaisions that the religion doesn't matter a flying fuck re these arseholes.

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Not so young anymore.'s avatar

Yes Caitlin is in favor of genocide of Jews.

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hierochloe's avatar

do tell exactly where you got that ridiculous notion

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Not so young anymore.'s avatar

Because she’s pro Hamas idiot.

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hierochloe's avatar

so you got it from your own misinterpretation, unless you can also tell exactly how you landed on that unnuanced dipshittery... idiot

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Spencer Rome's avatar

Not even Hamas wants to kill all the Jews. They're most recent charter (2017) even makes a point to differentiate Jews from Israel and Zionism. It specifically says their fight is not with the Jews.

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/hamas-2017-document-full

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Not so young anymore.'s avatar

How about just Zionists who love their country,

Israel. Tne national homeland of the Jewish people.

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Juantastico's avatar

What's a country?

Do you mean the thing with invisible lines, to keep inferiors out?

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Not so young anymore.'s avatar

The lines to keep murderers out.

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Juantastico's avatar

Who gets to decide this?

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Not so young anymore.'s avatar

I bet you love Islam

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Paulo Kirk's avatar

Close to 30 years ago, former CIA officer Philip Agee was interviewed about the United States’ role in destabilising countries, such as Cuba and Nicaragua.

Fascinatingly enough, he explained how, when governments prioritise social justice and equality by providing education and healthcare, as Cuba does, the United States moves to disrupt their processes.

Countries like Nicaragua, Cuba, Grenada and others that have challenged US hegemony, so they can provide a good quality of life to their people, were or are being destroyed militarily or economically. This comes as the US government oppresses its population.

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JennyStokes's avatar

In the US Socialism is communism! Most people don't know right wing from left wing!

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ChazLB's avatar

This comunism smear specter is also part of the mind control gate keeping to make you hate the enemy of your true enemy you are still sleeping with...predatory capitalism

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hierochloe's avatar

a close family member tried to credulously argue with me that Obummer was a communist, that's how confused some Americans are

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spingerah's avatar

His real father was.

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Feral Finster's avatar

I heard one local yokel insist that Obama was an "atheistic Muslim". No lie.

I detest Obama, but I am pretty sure that one can be an atheist or a Muslim. One or the other.

Not both.

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hierochloe's avatar

Ha, they had to have the double-whammy scary atheist and scary muslim. It's an interesting thing: there are secular Jews, I would say there are secular Catholics, why not secular Muslims too? (among all of which some might be atheists) I'm probably stretching it too far.

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Deena Stryker's avatar

Or ass from elbow!

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Mike Fish's avatar

That’s why they can’t fly, and just end up running around in circles.

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JennyStokes's avatar

Ha ha!

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Paulo Kirk's avatar

The U.S. government remains terrified of communism. And most younger Westerners assume its an antiquated authoritarian system and few read Marx. But if you ask the current generation why the U.S. fears and hates communism so much, given that its a failed system, you get blank looks. I mean, why not just let these uprisings, when they appear, fail? It makes no sense to mobilize this hatred of socialists and communists if they are doomed to self destruct.

The rejoinder, of course, is that its not a system that fails. And the hatred of it has multiple prongs. There is, of course, class privilege. And along with it, the ownership of property. Under Obama the final transference of wealth to the top 1% was completed

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JennyStokes's avatar

Please Paulo. I live in France.

We have many party's to vote for amongst them are communists and socialists.

Please do not use the word 'western!' IF you use the word 'western' it denotes that we are all like the USA. We are not.

I would love to agree with you BUT not many people in the US (because of propaganda) would not agree that socialism works. Yet we have free medical/schools/colleges/universities.

I lived in the USA for 23yrs and saw the propaganda.

Even before Reagan everyone was terrified of communism which is NOT Liberal socialism.

Most people in the US have a problem understanding left from right!

This happened WAY before Obama.

I have been a socialist all my life because I am prepared to pay taxes for the people who just cannot make life work. Everyone needs a home/job/decent pay/education. IF this doesn't happen you have a country which is defunct.

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Paulo Kirk's avatar

I too lived in France, and I am 66, and I know about the hatred of USSR and Cuba and and and in the 1950s, cold war, etc.

So, no, I know about French politcs, and other countries with socialist candidates.

Here, a great leader in communist tradition. From your country.

https://jacobin.com/2021/11/grigny-best-mayor-banlieue-suburbs-philippe-rio-french-communist-party

Philippe Rio from Grigny, south of Paris, has been voted the world’s best mayor. He told Jacobin about the local social programs that have made his Communist administration a global success story.

+--+

And, well, Western is one of those interesting terms. I think of France and Germany and the Nordic countries as the Global North, for sure, and, hmm, everything over the Atlantic is of course east. When it comes to USA and looking from New York at toward Europe, well, there it is, the east. The Mayans and others always saw in their myths and culture that evil comes from the east. Boy were they right, no, coming from Iberia and Europe, the murderers of 100 million of more Native Americans (sic).

So, thanks for the input, and I am definitely not denying the great socialists and communists in Italian and French history, for sure.

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Juantastico's avatar

This comment reminds me of what Kurt Vonnegut wrote in his final book and memoir, "A Man Without A Country."

That true communism has never (yet) been tried.

I read that many years ago, but because of so much never ending pro-capitalistic propaganda in this country, I didn't really know what to do with that sentence or how to follow up on it.

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Paulo Kirk's avatar

Oh, countries want peace, food, clean air, harmony, community cohesion, schools, arts, dance, music, learning, light at night, and a roof and some time in nature, and good work.

Capitalism is about the three g's -- gold, greed, guns.

So, say, Nicaragua, well, the project was set well, but there are always rats from USA and other Capitalism Criminal Outfits seeding a community or town or country with the THree G's motherfuckers -- greedy gold seeking gun weilding misanthropes.

Try fighting city hall in your community. Try to resist taxes in this 2023 1040 season based on your own consciousness. Try forcing your state to raise the wages, force corporations to pay for their externalities, and to have real health care and real transportation choices.

Hahaha. That's capitalism -- no direct democracy, and the system rigged by and for the Fortune 10,000 thugs.

So, beastiality or socialism. Brutality or socialism. Barbarity or socialism.

There are no choices in a world where genocide is just an open project of TikTok criminals and Blinken-Yellen-Nuland-Kagan-Emoff-Garland Wailing Wall White House Murder Incorporated. Meyer Lansky, anyone?

Yeah, the people in this lobotomized system imagine the world ending or going the way of The Road, before imagining capitalism faltering and leaving planet earth.

Yah got that? Peace.

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Chang Chokaski's avatar

So very true!

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Deena Stryker's avatar

Read 'When the Revolution was Young", based on my two year long stay in Cuba as French citizen Deena Boyer, that included sit-down interviews with all the leaders, including several with Fidel.

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Susan T's avatar

i just want the bombing to stop and for people to stop dying. I want children to stay alive for their parents and parents to stay alive for their children. I want the IDF to become humanized somehow.

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gypsy33's avatar

Hi Susan

It’s doubtful that will ever happen. The IDF requires EXTERMINATION, along with the likes of AIPAC.

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Not so young anymore.'s avatar

And the Elders of Zion.

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karl pomeroy's avatar

What I truly want for the Palestinians is freedom on their own land. This is something I already have. Thank you Caitlin.

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dubbydove1@yahoo.com's avatar

Actually, I'm pretty sure what you have is what you perceive as freedom on land that was stolen from the original inhabitants who are still being oppressed and subjugated.

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karl pomeroy's avatar

Native Americans never lived on my particular piece of land. There is no sign it was ever inhabited by humans.

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Not so young anymore.'s avatar

Which land?

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Robert Billyard's avatar

We are all Palestinians, we are all Ukrainians! People fail to realize the world in 2024 is so highly populated, so highly integrated we are all affected directly or indirectly. If wars ended at midnight tonight we will still be dealing with consequences for decades. If we only knew the true costs and hidden costs of wars would they would have been banished long ago. Peoples of the West just can't bring ourselves to recognize we are slave states to the Empire's despotism and with each day our futures become grimmer.

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Adam Frank's avatar

I'm with the Palestinians and with the Russians protecting the Eastern Ukrainian Russian speakers. So basically, to hell with Zelensky.

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@smokygirl2006's avatar

I’m with you on that.

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gypsy33's avatar

Me three.

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Susan T's avatar

Robert Billyard, we may recognize that we are slave states, but recognition is one thing and changing the situation is another. In any case, even people who are not rich often think that being rich is the goal and rich people are better or smarter or something. We need to undertake the enormous job of changing that thinking.

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karl pomeroy's avatar

I bought a wild piece of land nobody wanted, made it beautiful, and live on next to nothing. Am I rich or poor?

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Mike Fish's avatar

I think that you are both fortunate, and mistaken.

You can’t really own a part of the earth.

The inventor never actually offered any of it for sale.

The terms “bought” and “live on next to nothing” seem to imply a monetary bent.

Why ask if you’re rich or poor?

Only you know that, based upon your experience, and how you feel about your life.

I hope that you are happy.

Does anyone else’s opinion really matter?

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Susan T's avatar

you are a smart human being. And lucky.

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Claude Lord's avatar

Are you content & joyful?

Then I would consider you rich.

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Heinrich Dahms's avatar

Wealthy beyond words.

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JennyStokes's avatar

You are fortunate.

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gypsy33's avatar

You are rich beyond gold, Karl.

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karl pomeroy's avatar

Have you ever owned any?

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karl pomeroy's avatar

I have 16 feral cats. Does that count?

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Paula's avatar

Vast empty areas? Like Palestine to the 1948 Zionists? Humanity is destroying the living space & resources of hundreds, or thousands of non-human creatures. Yes, I mean animals. Humans now occupy one third of Mother Earth & is leaving less & less of the tiny third left for all the other living (for the moment) creatures.

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Paula's avatar

My error. Humans now occupy TWO THIRDS of Mother Earth, leaving only one third to the rest of Creation.

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jamenta's avatar

"Forgive, O Lord, my little jokes on Thee, and I'll forgive Thy great big joke on me."

~Robert Frost

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Patricia Blair's avatar

I want for the Palestinians, their land, their families, their homes before 1947-48. To live in peace and security with their neighbors.

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Not so young anymore.'s avatar

Their homes in Tel Aviv?

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karl pomeroy's avatar

The Palestinians who were kicked out of their homes in Tel Aviv should surely have them back. That was even part of the original UN plan.

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Not so young anymore.'s avatar

You such a dope. Tel Aviv was a city built on sand by Jews. No prior Arabs lived there but why would foods like you bother to know. You stupid idiot know nothing about any of this.

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Rahadyan Sastrowardoyo's avatar

Even if you hadn't written this essay, the truth is that I want safety, self-determination, prosperity, and an overall positive future for the Palestinians.

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Dr.Who's avatar

As I was reading this, I kept saying Amen. And then I read the closing word. From your heart to God’s ears. Amen!

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Paulo Kirk's avatar

It is a special Jewish project. Don't let them fool us into thinking Zionism is in a vacuum.... Jewishness & Zionism go hand in hand!

https://open.substack.com/pub/paulokirk/p/dont-be-fooled-israel-is-jewish-and?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=5i319

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Chang Chokaski's avatar

There we go again with this "Jew" hatred. You do understand that Jews, just like any other people, are not monolithic right? You would be more accurate if you hated Israelis and Zionists.

Also, you do know that some of the biggest supporters of Israel and Zionism are not Jews but evangelical Christians right?

Do you also hate all Germans, Russians, British, and other Europeans for what they have been doing to the Jews for 2000+ years?

Do you also hate all Muslims because of the terrorist attacks that have been attributed to them?

Do you also hate all Hindus because of the ethnic cleansing of Muslims practised by followers of Hindutva ideology in India?

Do you also hate all Chinese because of the enthnic cleansing of Uyghurs in China?

Do you also hate all Buddhists because of the genocide committed by them in Myanmar against the Rohingya muslims?

Zionist ideology is vile and rotten to the core. But if you really want to blame someone for it, you should look at the Europeans (which includes Russia) and North America. They are the ones that hated Jews (just as the Israelis hate the Arabs). They are the ones that created this Zionist problem in the first place. They are the ones that pushed out the Jews based on their own racist white-supremacy ideologies. And the Zionists learned from their abusers and have become racist white-supremacy abusers themselves.

Or is your hate and purposeful conflation of Jews and Zionism just an exception, an emotional reaction to the current crisis?

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Mike Fish's avatar

Hate?

Hatred?

I must have missed the part where he said I hate all Jews.

Please cite, or shut your lying ass, fucking, disingenuous fucking hole, or apologize.

I notice that you have the approval of the genocide approving Daniel.

Doesn’t that tell you anything?

I’ll ask you too, what is a Jew, according to you?

It’s the self titled Jewish state of Israel doing all of this murder and mayhem for the past seventy five years.

I’ve never heard it referred to as the home of the Zionists.

In the 1940s did the UN criminally invent a nation for the Zionists, or was it for the Jews?

If Jews didn’t want this genocide to be happening, it wouldn’t be happening.

The numbers, the polls, indicate that “the Jews” are pleased with this ongoing ethnic cleansing and killing, almost lock, stock, and barrel.

I posit that any individual who isn’t down with what Israel is, and has been doing in Palestine, isn’t actually a Jew.

What is a Jew, anyway?

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hierochloe's avatar

"I posit that any individual who isn’t down with what Israel is, and has been doing in Palestine, isn’t actually a Jew." fail, this is bigot's logic and obviously incorrect (JVP, BTS, etc, etc, etc)

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Chang Chokaski's avatar

Mike Fish: Here is an attempt to answer the question "Who is a Jew"?

“Who is a Jew?” This is an ancient question with no single, timeless answer. On the one hand, being Jewish is a matter of religion – the traditional, matrilineal definition of Jewish identity is founded on halakha (Jewish religious law). On the other hand, being Jewish also may be a matter of ancestry, ethnicity and cultural background. Jews (and non-Jews) may disagree on where to draw the line. Is an adult who has Jewish parents but who considers herself an atheist nevertheless Jewish, by virtue of her lineage? What about someone who has Jewish parents and has converted to Christianity? Or someone who has no known Jewish ancestry but is married to a Jew and has come to think of himself as Jewish, though he has not formally converted to Judaism?

Various people will have their own answers to these questions.

Here are some categorizations:

(1) Jews by religion – people who say their religion is Jewish (and who do not profess any other religion)

(2) Jews of no religion – people who describe themselves (religiously) as atheist, agnostic or nothing in particular, but who have a Jewish parent or were raised Jewish and who still consider themselves Jewish in some way.

(3) Non-Jewish people of Jewish background – people who have a Jewish parent or were raised Jewish but who, today, either have another religion (most are Christian) or say they do not consider themselves Jewish

(4) Non-Jewish people with a Jewish affinity – people who identify with another religion (in most cases, Christianity) or with no religion and who neither have a Jewish parent nor were raised Jewish but who nevertheless consider themselves Jewish in some way. Some say, for example, that they consider themselves partly Jewish because Jesus was Jewish, because “we all come from Abraham” or because they have Jewish friends or relatives.

Sources:

(1) Who Is A Jew?: Reflections on History, Religion, and Culture (https://www.jstor.org/stable/j.ctt6wq61q)

(2) Jewish identity and belief (https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2021/05/11/jewish-identity-and-belief/)

(3) Defining 'Who Is a Jew’ (https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/2013-09-04/ty-article/.premium/defining-who-is-a-jew/0000017f-f723-d460-afff-ff67fa6f0000)

As you can see, answering the question "Who is a Jew" is a complex endeavour with a lot of nuance.

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Paulo Kirk's avatar

There you go again explaining how you believe I do not know history, geopolitics, religion, and tribalism. This is Jewish ideology and you know it. Now, if Jews see the error of their religion, their rabbis, their masters, their mothership, their cabal, their role in history, their legacy of hateful Talmudic teachings, and the error of even an inch of land stolen from Palestinians, well well, then the Chokaski or Chomsky or whomever might have a fucking leg to stand on. But fucking lecturing me about your vision of Judaism....? You are joking, right?

Jews support their brothers and sisters in that stolen land. Is it your fucking religion? Stuff it next to the Torah, please.

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Chang Chokaski's avatar

It doesn't really matter what you believe, because your hatred and emotions won't let you think critically. And your ad hominem attacks and assumptions of things unstated further display your "need to be right" rather than your "need to think critically".

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gypsy33's avatar

💩💩💩

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Not so young anymore.'s avatar

You are a fucking racist antiSemite. Go rot in hell

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Paulo Kirk's avatar

Is that Jewish anti Arab Hell, or where the Talmud wants all Goyim to go after the Jewish Satanists suck the blood and succor out of us all, even Jews who the Jewish State of Israel Jews call self-loathing Jews? Help me with the pathway to Hell your racist ideology wants to lead the non-Jewish world?

You seem to have particular knowledge of rotting like a unkosher pig smells and the racism of Judaism.

I'll stay awake for your horrible Talmudic bits of wisdom on how Oxen and Dog like Goyim and self-loathing Jews are.

Sweet dreams as you lust after Epstein's and Weinstein's version of Talmudic Heaven

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gypsy33's avatar

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

If the abused inevitably become abusers, I’d be a serial killer.

I will never forgive life for what my abuser did to me. He broke my bones. He choked me into unconsciousness so many times that with every subsequence action, I hoped to really die that time. But that was HIS fault, nobody else’s, except for my own…and I made it through.

It left me with fists that I was always prepared to use, but I never started a fistfight myself.

It was always reactionary.

So don’t try to sell us that tired old bullshit that Jews are reacting to the so-called Holocaust. They SHOULD be the kindest, most moral people in the world ( see, there’s this thang called “empathy”) and the vast majority of Jews in both IsraHell and Amerikkka support the genocide.

If you can’t risk making a fool of yourself, best to keep your trap shut.

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dubbydove1@yahoo.com's avatar

I'm sorry you had to go through what you did. There's a saying in the Talmud, "God keeps close those he loves the best". The meaning of that is that through pain we learn empathy for others. I am sorry but with your level of hatred towards people you obviously don't know and know nothing about other than your prejudices I would say you're not healed. Hatred is not healing.

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gypsy33's avatar

WHAT “god”?

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Susan T's avatar

Not everyone can recover from their abuse as you seem to have done. Some need help getting through it.

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gypsy33's avatar

Then they clearly need to get help.

Anyways, I was referring to an entire demographic, not just individuals.

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Susan T's avatar

I do not see that people who have suffered serious abuse should be the kindest people in the world. I also underwent serious abuse as a child. I did not automatically become a kind and loving person. I was mostly a confused person until I got help. And it took a long time to recover.

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Susan T's avatar

It takes a lot of work and determination to get to a place where one can see the long line of abuse and pain that has happened before the abuser got to you. At some point we have to stop hating and work on understanding. Only then will the cycle be broken and maybe wars and hating will stop. There is no need to forgive our abusers. Only to understand how they got there so that maybe we can slow it down from happening more.

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gypsy33's avatar

Again, Susan:

This thing called EMPATHY.

Why in hell would you want genocide against a population when your own people experienced it?

Jews should be the very people advocating AGAINST genocide.

WTF don’t you get?

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dubbydove1@yahoo.com's avatar

I like and agree with most of what you wrote. But what is your definitionof Zionism? I believe it to be simply a desire to have a Jewish state? Am I wrong. Is it wrong to desire that in a world so rife with anti-semitism? And Jews have only been considered white since after WW2 because living in racist Amerika there were serious quotas on third world immigrants. Until then Jewish people were classified as "Orientals" (a racist term in itself). Jewish people, like Blacks, were forced out of their own country, the Blacks mainly kidnapped as slaves in the westm many women raped by white "masters" causing an intermixing of black and white and Judeans exiled by their occupier, Rome. Those exiled to Europe intermixed with Europeans, doesn't make them white. Many Jews can pass as white, but for many of us, we look "ethnic". I was born in NYC and alll my life I've been asked where I'm from.

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Chang Chokaski's avatar

You write:

>> "Jews have only been considered white since after WW2 because living in racist Amerika there were serious quotas on third world immigrants"

->Yes, this is true.

Ref: (1) Is the Jew White? The Racial Place of the Southern Jew (https://www.jstor.org/stable/23885563)

(2) Race, ethnicity, heritage and immigration among U.S. Jews (https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2021/05/11/race-ethnicity-heritage-and-immigration-among-u-s-jews/)

>> "Until then Jewish people were classified as "Orientals" (a racist term in itself)"

-> Yes, true - as explained in Edward W. Said's wonderful book "Orientalism"

Ref: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/355190.Orientalism

>> "Jewish people, like Blacks, were forced out of their own country, the Blacks mainly kidnapped as slaves in the westm many women raped by white "masters" causing an intermixing of black and white and Judeans exiled by their occupier, Rome."

-> Yes, also true

Ref: Jews & Blacks (Atlantic History) (https://www.oxfordbibliographies.com/display/document/obo-9780199730414/obo-9780199730414-0254.xml)

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Chang Chokaski's avatar

First off, let me say that I really appreciate your comment. Thank you!

I agree with every single sentence in your above paragraph. Obviously, you have a good grasp on history - and everything you say is an accurate analysis (IMHO) and can be corroborated by facts.

Here is my definition of Zionism:

Zionism is a political movement hatched in the 19th century, inspired by European ethnic-nationlist & colonial movements of the time. These movements believed that every “nationality” must have a defined territory for its own exclusive use. So the Zionists decided that Jews everywhere were not actually nationals of their countries, but rather an entirely different national group who could never truly become French, English, or any other nationality. Thus, they believed that they should all leave and form their own state in Palestine, displacing the prior inhabitants.

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Not so young anymore.'s avatar

Ha ha. Jews couldn’t truly become French or German or whatever they tried. History bears this out.

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Chang Chokaski's avatar

Yes - I know - they did try - and that is the tragedy - that all these Western countries that profess to care about human rights, freedom, democracy, etc. are the worst offenders of these ideals.

These Western countries, along with Jewish personalities such as Theodor Herzl, Leon Pinsker, etc. and later on British personalities such as Arthur Balfour, etc. had a vested interest in relocating the Jews to outside Europe.

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Deena Stryker's avatar

Right on!

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gypsy33's avatar

💩💩💩

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Fran's avatar

I am sure their are many Jews who do not approve of what is going on in Israel, whether they live there or elsewhere. Although I would really like to hear there is a lot of outrage in Israel over this genocide.

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Brigadoon's avatar

That's a nice thought- but umfortunately for us it is exactly the kind of naive sentiment that has gotten us Goyim into such a terrible mess. It is time to face a very stark reality, or continue to stand aside, watching in horror as the Jews coninue their savage rampage from the river to the sea, and beyond. The truth is an overwhelming majority of Jews (81% according to recent Jewish Times poll) are enthusiastic supporters of the continued mass murder of innocents.

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Fran's avatar

Happening in America, lot of marches lots of Jewish people marching against what is going on in Palestine, and I'm sure in Israel as well. Sometimes there is little to coverage of those who speak out. During the US wars, I marched, and marched, and too often not reported, Called and wrote and it seemed to make little difference as it did for so many.

In Grief And Under Pressure, A Growing Number Of American Jews Protest Israeli Military Action

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/israel-hamas-gaza-american-jews-protest-demonstrate-military-action_n_6542a229e4b06bc01e22c46c

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@smokygirl2006's avatar

Yes, I have seen this too. For example, Jewish Voices for Peace who have said “Never again means never again for ANYONE.

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gypsy33's avatar

Not the same thing, Fran.

These people only want a ceasefire in order to recover the “hostages”.

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Mike Fish's avatar

You’re “sure” of a “lot” aren’t you Fran.

You throw around meaningless terms like many, and alot, alot.

Do you feel verbally abused now, Fran?

Because, I’m not going along with your “opinion”?

You realize that this assault upon Palestine, by the Jewish state of Israel started 75+ years ago, not just this past fall, don’t you Fran?

Where have these many/alot of Jews who don’t approve of what Israel is doing AGAIN been hiding until now?

What is it that you say it is that makes one a Jew, Fran?

If I understood that, maybe I could make sense of what you are saying.

I am saying that the Jewish state of Israel has no right to exist.

It’s invention was a crime against the people already living there.

You aren’t pro-crime are you, Fran?

What if all Christians demanded a nation of their own?

Muslims?

Futball worshippers?

Do we displace, and kill all of the people located where those groups feel like settling, also?

Oops, sounds like the United States and Israel to me.

What does it sound like to you?

Are you capable of hearing, something besides the voice in your own head?

Questions are beautiful things.

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Fran's avatar

You know fish you make a lot assumptions, and do you know what they say about people who do? They make an ass of themselves, and I guess it's already happened to you, since so much crap comes out your mouth. I'm a poet too, who knew.

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Mike Fish's avatar

Typical Fran, avoidance, non response, nonsense.

Fran, however, makes no assumptions.

She has all the facts.

I guess that you only approve of verbal abuse when you’re the one dishing it out, Fran.

You’d be amusing, if the subject matter wasn’t so serious, and deadly.

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gypsy33's avatar

Hi Mike

I just declared the state of Michigan a place for horse-lovers only, where one is required to own one or more horses, since the noble horse constitutes a significant portion of my religion.

Everybody else….OUT.

Think that’ll work? 😉

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Mike Fish's avatar

Michigan?

The birthplace of the american auto industry?

I love it.

No owning horses though.

You and I don’t own other creatures, we just care for them, and befriend them.

We ain’t capitalists.

I know a four legged creature, and he’s the best friend I’ve got, and he knows it, cause I show it.

You’re idea has merit.

Just don’t bomb the current residents of Michigan into submission, ok.

That shit don’t work.

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Mathew Neville's avatar

Some people are superior to others ---- isn't that obvious ?????

Cheap Real Estate to be available in Palestine for people who qualify !!!!

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JennyStokes's avatar

You are correct Fran. At the moment MSN is so bad on reporting protests. They don't want to hear Jewish people protesting.

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gypsy33's avatar

Fran? Really.

Do you seriously believe that the IsraHelli government would allow such protests?

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Fran's avatar

Yes, and many, no, most can't stand Netanyahu.

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Paula's avatar

I think it was Max Blumenthal who said (& maybe Ali Abunimah too) that Israelis don't get to see the horrendous videos from Gaza that we in the West get to see & so aren't as well -informed as we are. Although I don't claim to know the truth & certainly do not want to excuse Zionists &/or Israelis in general, I must say this situation is clearly advantageous for Israeli propagandists who can point to large numbers (77-80%?) of Israelis who think the IDF isn't doing enough to destroy Hamas.

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Kathleen Temple's avatar

Then I wanna train my own eyes on the 19% who do NOT want the massacres.

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dubbydove1@yahoo.com's avatar

I am not in favor of mass murder of innocents whatever label they may wear. But don't worry, no matter how hard they try, the Israelis could never even come close to the genocidal record that the Christians proudly wear.

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Brigadoon's avatar

You may not have the intellectual flexibility to reframe the context of your beliefs, but the truth is all 3 Judaic- Christian religions are constructs designed by the very same tribe, deliberately designed to perpetuate strife and to ultimately to set all other races against each other. Insidious control of others is the game.

But even putting that aside, Christianity pales in comparison to the Jews for historical body count, once you get through a few layers of their obsfucation of the facts, that is.

Buckle up- here's a little primer on just one epoch, if you dare

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3mr0rsNyGs

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dubbydove1@yahoo.com's avatar

Not really interested in engaging with anti-semitic mouthbeathers who seem to be Ms. Johnstone's new stock in trade. Disappointing to discover. The Jews comprise just 2% of the world population, Christians and Muslims - those who followed the Jews into patriarchal servitude, comprise just about half. The fact that so many can live in terror of so few is appalling/amazing,depressing. Is it our intelligence you fear? Most of us use it for good - like Jesus. Kind of like someone 10 feet tall fearing someone 4 feet tall. We must be very powerful..

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Brigadoon's avatar

you think I care what you think. That's hilarious.

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hierochloe's avatar

"the Christians proudly wear" hey maybe not fall for reactionary bigotry in defense against bigotry - Israel (not to be confused with "the Jews") is still going to be leading the 21st century leaderboard for a while at this rate

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Paulo Kirk's avatar

And, the point is? Approve? They don't approve? This isn't a fucking fashion show. Jews who support one acre of Israel as Jewish State approve of ethnic cleansing and mowing the lawn. Good luck with your silliness

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Fran's avatar

You can disagree all you want but that doesn't entitle you to attack me, or be abusive verbally.

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Chang Chokaski's avatar

I'm with you Fran. When people can't argue logically or their hatred clouds their critical thinking abilities, they use misplaced anger to attack others.

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Mike Fish's avatar

Logic.

Now that’s a hoot.

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Fran's avatar

Thanks I appreciate your reponse.

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Paulo Kirk's avatar

Are you kidding? Thousands are being bombed in your name and mine, and this is it? Verbal abuse cop? Thanks for giving yet more fodder for more writing. Peace y paz.

Shkran.

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Fran's avatar

Yeah, go figure a woman who doesn't want to be abused verbally for her expressed opinions by a man who feels he alone knows the truth. Amen! The end!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Paulo Kirk's avatar

And I even had no connection to Fran as a woman. Alas, look me up .... Paul Haeder and Domestic Violence, on Gulag Google. Fran? I had no context for sure. I am not misogynist or misandrist... What the hell, this is fake community, Substack. Please, thicken thy skin.

From an atheist. In the Bible (I Timothy, 6:10) it is written "The love of money is the root of all Evil." And when Jesus fasted in the desert for 40 days, (Matthew 4:8, 4:9) "Again, the devil took Him up on an exceedingly high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory." And Satan said, "All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.”

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Fran's avatar

https://www.aljazeera.com/gallery/2024/1/6/thousands-protest-in-israel-demanding-captive-release-government-to-resign

Thousands protest in Israel demanding captive release, government to resign

"Mass protests have taken place around Israel, with demonstrators calling for the return of Israeli captives held in Gaza, the removal of Prime Minister Netanyahu’s government and an end to the war in Gaza."

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JennyStokes's avatar

Now they are going to fight Hezbollah because Netanyahu doesn't want to go to Jail!

A lot of the Jewish people know this which is why they aree protesting.

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gypsy33's avatar

No Fran, there are not. But some Jews in THIS country are among the leading dissidents against the war: Medea Benjamin, Phil Weiss, Norman Finkelstein, Alison Weir.

To whom I’m forever grateful.

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Fran's avatar

Yes, and there are other people, not well known, who are Jewish and are against this war, young and old, and they have made their voices heard, in America, around the world and in Israel. They have marched against the genocide in Gaza and I've seen it. While people voice their contempt for the prejudice against Palestinians, and what helps drive this genocide they turn around and make anti-Semitic remarks.

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Brigadoon's avatar

well said- important distinction to understand.

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Fran's avatar

There is some, and perhaps you would like to see more, and so would I. Perhaps they are not covering it. During America's middle eastern wars many were involved in the anti-war movement, as was I. Did we get coverage, some, initially, then it kind of went down hill. There were marches that went unreported, and then the media adopted the pro-war policies of the administration. The media by and large is a mouth piece for one party or another in America.

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hierochloe's avatar

It's true, dissent can be drowned out a number of ways to where it's barely or not even perceivable.

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Ohio Barbarian's avatar

No, being Jewish does not make one a Zionist, and given that there are in fact more Christian Zionists than there are Israelis, being a Zionist certainly does not make one a Jew.

I am neither, but I'm not about to sit here and let Jews like Norman Finkelstein, Max Blumenthal, Russell Dobular and Keaton Weiss be smeared with what has clearly become the blood libel of being labeled a Zionist.

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Mike Fish's avatar

I didn’t hear/read anyone labeling/libeling Max Blumenthal et al as being Zionist, Christian, Jewish, or otherwise.

You made it up.

I am genuinely unaware of the meaning of “blood libel”, and how it differs from just plain libel.

If you would be willing to elaborate, I would appreciate it.

Personally, I think that Max tears it up, and provides great journalism at the Grayzone.

So much venom at posters here, and not nearly as much towards Israel and it’s protagonists .

That seems screwed up to me.

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Ohio Barbarian's avatar

I didn't say he had been. Nonetheless, I know that Max Blumenthal is an anti-Zionist Jews, and when all Jews are painted with the same genocidal Zionist brush that endangers Jews like Blumenthal, for whom I have great respect as both a journalist and just a man of conscience.

"Blood libel" refers to when the medieval Catholic Church told people that Jews killed Christian babies to use their blood in dark rituals. It was a great way to start a pogram and distract the peasants from the doings of Church and nobility.

Israelis and their Zionist supporters have been accusing anyone who says Israel is committing genocide of blood libel, most recently the South African government when it filed suit against Israel in the International Court of Justice, accusing Israel of genocide.

If all Jews are tainted by what Israel is doing, then there's a danger of REAL anti-Semitism rearing its ugly head, and I don't want to see that happen.

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Mike Fish's avatar

Thank you for the explanation of blood libel.

That’s disgusting.

I don’t know about that semitism, anti or otherwise.

I have heard that Palestinians, at least some of them, are Semitic, so I’m not anti-Semitic as far as I’m concerned.

I’m anti-Israel though.

The creation of that enterprise, at the expense of the people already living there, is not something I can countenance.

Let’s just hope that the shooting, and bombing, and killing stops.

Soon.

Now, preferably.

Then maybe we can figure shit out, and give the peace loving people there a break, at long last.

Max and Aaron were great on Friday.

Mintpress was even more moving.

If you didn’t have the opportunity to watch it, I encourage you to do so.

Have a pleasant, productive, peaceful day, please, you barbarian you.

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Paulo Kirk's avatar

Oh, Mister Fish. You are in the sandbox of, well, as they say, Substack Crusaders. It's the same over at Sheer Post. Amazing amounts of nuancing and parsing, finding a semite here and an anti-semite there, all thise bravado and hair splitting.

And someone is "reporting" you to who? Is this the Good German thing we all know about.

Finkelstein was on Russell's show, and he stated how his father told Norman about a great book he read, by a Russian, and told Norman that this is the truth -- The Russian historian slash writer never referred to those in Germany Nazis. He hated the Germans. You know, it was a Nazi State, and alas, Norman was taken aback but understands this.

Russell mention something as a Devil's advocate to Norman around the issue of "are you seeing that anti-semitism is being grafted onto this genocide Israel is undertaking?"

Old Norm clarified and stated that it's a natural spillover that good people might equate what the Jewish State of Jewish Israel is doing (every branch of anything in Isra-Hell has that religious emblem everywhere) to Palestinians as what Jews worldwide advocate and agree with. He's certainly clear that the number of women and babies and children killed compared to supposed military militants is the worse ratio in this century and most of the last part of the 20th century.

He's not worried about anti-semitism spillover. He also mention Graham Greene's novel, the Ugly American, making the point that it wasn't called "The Ugly CIA" or "The Ugly American Army."

It is death and dying in the time of the ugly Jew. SOrt of a Marquez novel, "One Hundred Years of Nakba" never made into a movie by you know who who controls Hollywood and the media, in their own words.

So, welcome to the mud pit of Substack railing and dancing and massive comments threads and, well, Mister Fish, you read and comment on my Substack and have read my more traditional journalism and my books, so you might get me better than a Substack armchair hero. You've even met me in person for weeks on end, and took a Zoom part of a face-to-face class.

You know who Paulo is -- AKA Paul K. Haeder, or Paul Haeder. In the olden days of the Jewish Project Google, I'd get so many more hits putting my real name in the Gulag Machine of Google.

But, those who control the data, control the world (since data is worth more than gold and oil and food and water and land -- or that is, data can control all of those and more) , so yep, we are just subjects, less than serfs, to the Blinken's and Soros's and Larry Finks of the world.

Is someone really reporting you? What does that mean when someone states that on Substack Crap Landia?

Is that Mossad? FBI? My Jurez Cartel buddies? THe Banditos I did stories about? SHit, scares the shit out of me, man. Almost as bad as being banned by Fucker-Berg-Book and his Mossad-CIA-Jewish Unsocial media outfit, Meta or some such fucked up place.

https://paulokirk.substack.com/p/evil-in-t-shirt-a-la-zelensky-and

Pure evil, Caitlin stated nice family man Blinken is. Shit, there goes the neighborhood!

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Not so young anymore.'s avatar

Cuz you all hate Jews and you are getting really confused!

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Deena Stryker's avatar

Most of the people who comment on the internet are too young to be familiar with the history of anti-Semitism, which led to the creation of a state for Jews.

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gypsy33's avatar

What bullshit. Are you talking about five-year-olds?

Ever heard of WORLD HISTORY classes, Deena?

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hierochloe's avatar

this is the number one source of traction for those who would conflate anti-zionism with anti-semitism, you're doing the thing

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Paulo Kirk's avatar

But pointing this out gets radical commies like me sent to FuckYouBook jail and labeled anti Judaica.... Those who control the narrative and data, control the world. Wish I was a Rothschild.....

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karl pomeroy's avatar

Old Jacob in his castle looked like a cockroach to me.

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Susan T's avatar

so go be a Rothschild.

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Paulo Kirk's avatar

I tried, but Jews-Only Need Apply: Also, communists need to go the back of the Wailing Wall and Await the Snipers.

https://paulokirk.substack.com/p/ahh-that-jewish-wish-if-i-was-a-rothschild

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Not so young anymore.'s avatar

Oh you know the Talmud?

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Jim Stewart's avatar

Well spoken!

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Bob - Enough's avatar

But can we all remember that NOT ALL Jews are Zionist cnuts and not many Zionist cnuts are Jews...

99.8 % of the Global population can get along well, like, love or whatever each other... the globalist parasitical scum, the so called elites that we see and their political and corrupt corporate sponsors NEED ELIMINATING.

God bless the Palestinians; but please let us not forget the Syrians, the Lebanese, the Iraqis and everyone else also being targeted globally .... as I type.

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Mike Fish's avatar

I posit that the vast majority of Jews approve of the state of Israel, and the crimes it has been committing for over seventy five years now.

Where’s the evidence to the contrary?

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Bob - Enough's avatar

I do not know nor do I really care... I have my view on it, so you have yours. My claim is about being part of Judaism vs Zionism ... so do not try and twist my words.

Have a look at this and you can skip the first bits = skip to 09:40 to the Israel situation or rather the occupied Palestinian lands; but I would recommend you watch it all if you want.

https://odysee.com/@thecrowhouse:2/Ordo-Ab-Chao:7d

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Mike Fish's avatar

I agree that we shouldn’t lose sight of all of the other populations being abused and killed each and every day.

It’s just that this genocide, being conducted by supremacist states of Israel and the U$A, (and associates) is so brazen, that many of the other atrocities get lost in the shuffle.

There are so many to keep track of, for christ’s sake.

I wasn’t attempting to twist your words, don’t know if I did so, and I apologize if I did.

In all honesty, Bob, I don’t even know what the word Jew means, anymore.

It seems ambiguous, or fungible, depending upon the situation.

I’m just anti-Israel, anti-USA, anti-supremacist, and anti-murder/war.

I’m pro-dialogue,

pro-affection, pro-laughter, pro-peace.

Have a good day, Bob.

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Bob - Enough's avatar

Well that clarifies matters perfectly; as we are both on the same side and think the same.

Cheers, same to you and do not let the effers get us down.

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Paulo Kirk's avatar

Statement from the Military Media of the Islamic Resistance:

"In the name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful

Dear honorable people...

The Israeli enemy, in its aerial attacks on our areas, tends to repeat the raid on the same targeted locations within close time periods, hardly exceeding a few minutes, with the aim of confirming the kill and shedding blood. Therefore, we urge you, our dear people, for your safety, to stay away from the targeted locations and not to approach or gather around them, leaving the relief efforts to the concerned authorities entrusted with this task. Your courage and nobility are sources of pride, but your lives are more precious than anything, and preserving them is our collective responsibility.

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Hugh Mercer's avatar

“Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.” - 1 John 4:11, KJV

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ZionistBillionaires=Anti-Jews's avatar

Beautifully said. In other words, it is the Golden Rule.

The rule which Zionism (one of the most rabidly sectarian, exclucivist, hierarchical, supremacist, murderous, God-denying and anti-wholistic ideologies on the planet) and Zionist tribalists (the most thoroughly indoctrinated, deceived, short-sighted, propagandized, well-intentioned but misguided people on the planet) completely reject!!

Sectarian exclucivist supremacist anti-wholistic zionism does NOT protect Jewish people (i'm Jewish Israeli) but precisely the opposite. Its rabid anti-wholism, sectarianism, tribalist supremacy, profound murderous violence, is the number one cause for INSECURITY for Jews and everyone else, in my experience and understanding.

I am open to have a dialogue about this, if anyone is interested to discuss this (paid zionist tribalists, you can spare us your sectarian hatred and violence. Only if someone is sane and mature enough to have a non-hateful non-egoic non-dogmatic dialogue of listening, curiousity and evolving).

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