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Richard Keppler's avatar

Ronald Reagan had Marines in Lebanon. In 1983, October third they were hit by a truck bomb. The attack killed 307 people: 241 U.S. and 58 French military personnel, six civilians, and two attackers.

Reagan did not use that as an excuse to invade Iran. He pulled the rest of them out of there.

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Chang Chokaski's avatar

Yes, but today's leaders are not as restrained as yester year's. Also, 80's and Reagan's era was a different time in history (i.e. cold war - bipolar). From the 90s until very recently, we have had a unipolar world with US hegemony. Our current leaders still seem to be operating with the assumption that we are still in that unipolar environment. Their thought processes and information analysis are biased with their pre-existing worldview, which IMHO may be very different from where the world is currently.

Hence, I believe there is a greater risk now than ever before. Of course, whenever I make pessimistic assertions/predictions/thoughts, I always hope that I am wrong - because peace is more important than being right/wrong.

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Susan T's avatar

The US military personnel were killed because they were brainwashed into thinking Biden knows what he is talking about when he refuses to press for a ceasefire. Pelosi is bringing up the Russian scare again. Back to the days of McCarthy. What a bunch of crazy people who seem to have lost their ability to think.

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Fran's avatar

Susan she's not going back to McCarthy, but going back to Trump, and the lie of Russia-gate that supposedly put him in office. No doubt many democrats still buy that lie since no one has been held accountable. She said, “I think some of these protesters are spontaneous and organic and sincere. Some, I think, are connected to Russia,” she claimed. “I think some financing should be investigated." I thought that comment was not only disingenuous but reflected her contempt for the American people.

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Pat's avatar

All i can think of is a school yard bully then others piling on the innocent kid. And the rational is equally unjustifiable and ignorant. These people reveal who they really are without filters. The emperor has no clothes. I am so done with my country when the citizens have no way to make their voices of dissent,heard.

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Sam's avatar

This isn’t a red/blue issue. Don’t forget that it was Trump who left the troops in Syria. He said it was so they could take the oil and maybe that was true, but most of our Middle East adventures are to make Israel more secure. It’s why Bush invaded Iraq and killed Saddam. Bibi wanted it done.

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hierochloe's avatar

if brainwashing was involved it probably happened before it mattered what Biden knows, and even if after, I doubt any of them signed up for duty and dying because of what they thought Biden knows or doesn't know

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Jan 29, 2024
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Toma's avatar

Keep in mind that national guard troops are now being deployed to the middle east and many are already there. The guard is supposed to be defending only US soil not stationed in other countries. Their only option is to go AWOL and face the consequences which are severe. More rule reinterpretation by the government.

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Jan 29, 2024
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Susan T's avatar

Rules and laws made by the oppressors are made to control those they oppress. If rules and laws were made by the people, things might be different.

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Jan 29, 2024
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DC Reade's avatar

that's an incoherent take. The natural laws of animal instinct are inherently deterministic and oppressive. Fight or flight. The strongest survive. Concepts like fairness, magnaminity, and restraint in the interest of justice are unknown. There's no international agreement among cats to refrain from eating endangered bird species, for instance. (The fact that human laws against killing endangered species have often been disregarded does not override the fact that the ordinances have also had some partial success- or the fact that no animal species other than humans is even capable of formulating a concept as subtle as preserving natural diversity at the expense of immediate gratification.)

To the extent that human laws reify oppression or lead to oppression, it's because some of them are formulated and/or selectively enforced for the purpose of the oppression of the weak by the strong, to prevent the threat of competition, for territory or survival, and/or to maximize the advantage of a few at the expense of the rest, in a zero-sum game. That's as "natural" as it gets. A squandering of the unique capacity of reflective human awareness to do any better, but there isn't anything per se "unnatural" about it.

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DC Reade's avatar

"The societies that have rules that don't oppress are not following human rules."

Got any specific real-world examples to reference? Your statement is so vague that I can't even tell whether you're referring to human societies or nonhuman societies.

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Susan T's avatar

I don't understand what you are talking about. First you said that rules and laws exist solely for the oppression of lower castes and then you said only nature makes the rules. So you think nature makes oppressive rules? There are rules for reaching consensus. As far as I know they are human rules. They are not oppressive unless you are one of those people that likes to take up all the space.

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Jan 29, 2024
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Toma's avatar

It would be honorable and completely futile. It would accomplish absolutely nothing more than ending up an example for others NOT to follow.

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Jan 29, 2024
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Toma's avatar

I guess you're right. It would be far better for the troops being deployed to all sit down and protest by using a flame thrower on themselves and the last remaining his 45 to his brain.

What is your definition of futile anyway?

Another approach would be for the national guard who are supposed to be protecting the constitution and US citizens to gather up arms against Washington DC. Wouldn't that be interesting?? That would not be futile and I'd join the party!

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Marci Sudlow's avatar

Spending months/years in prison would be futile, and worse than death.

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Susan T's avatar

I don't really think that when people decide to patriotically go fight for their country that they think much except that they are being good patriots, doing what duty has called on them to do.

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Pietro Wislon's avatar

I think most of them are looking for a job with benefits, sadly lacking in most places in Canada and the US.

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gypsy33's avatar

Who are we kidding?

They’re folks that have brainwashed into believing “Amerikkkan exceptionalism”.

Unless one goes back to Vietnam and the draft, that’s my experience with those who’ve enlisted.

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Jan 29, 2024
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Susan T's avatar

I think military personnel are railroaded one way or another and I think it is horrible that they die for whatever reason they are there.

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Jan 29, 2024
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Susan T's avatar

This is a pointless discussion, really. I think that people in North America are too often doing whatever they do in a robotic fashion and not thinking clearly.

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Kojo's avatar

The U.S. is full of alienated ghettos where schools have bars on the windows and going to school involve children going through a metal detector. Junkies on the streets, few jobs, no meaningful careers and wages below living wage standards ie eternal penury.

That’s the picture for where the U.S. military trawls through to recruit most of its “volunteers”

That’s the “freedom” the U.S. claims to be offering and those are the coercive conditions you seem to be comparing to Ivy League students flicking through brochures and speaking to a personal career counsellor about which six figures paying job to take.

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Luke's avatar

I think it’s safe to assume all of our personnel over there have now taken on the role of bait. The Neocons are all too happy to hear about stories such as this. Anything they can use to justify more force.

What one must understand tho is that these Neocons are almost out of runway. They are playing a very dangerous game. Right now the US is operational. It’s being held up by a thin veneer of nostalgic confidence of a time in which we were indeed strong. An embarrassment now could lead into a cascading effect which guides into a dystopian time.

Here’s Larry Johnson’s podcast from today. Larry is former CIA Analyst for those who don’t know. Watched and read him plenty. He seems very agitated in this video.

https://sonar21.com/my-podcast-on-the-impending-war-with-iran/

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jamenta's avatar

I listen to Larry Johnson often on the Judge Napolitano show. Informative analyst/pundit for sure.

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hierochloe's avatar

Napolitano's show is not at all what I would have expected, he's been kinda crushing it lately.

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Ymarsakar's avatar

He took over the ukraine reporting after lira was disabled

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hierochloe's avatar

oh wow I wasn't aware they took out gonz

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The Revolution Continues's avatar

“They didn’t die defending US interests, they died defending Biden’s refusal to press Israel for a ceasefire. Their lives were put at risk by Biden to defend Israel’s ability to continue its carnage in Gaza.”

One has to wonder if the lives of three US troops will cause enough backlash in Congress to shut down our "escapades" in the region and bring the rest of the troops home, leaving Israel exposed and pressured into ceasing their genocide in Gaza as per the ICJ's instruction. But if the deaths of 30,000 civilians (with over 12,000 of them being children) doesn't caused a backlash enough to shut down our arming the Israelis, maybe nothing on this earth would. The US oligarchy just wants to dominate the world, and it doesn't care if innocents are massacred and it doesn't really care if its cannon fodder--I mean soldiers--are killed as well. All life is worthless to billionaires except their own, of course.

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Mario A Leblanc's avatar

The blood drinkers, the cabal, the psychopaths want war. This is what they want. They try everything they can and provoke as much as possible for WW3.

General Wesley Clark comment about war in the Middle East. The last country was Iran.

¨So I came back to see him a few weeks later, and by that time we were bombing in Afghanistan. I said, "Are we still going to war with Iraq?" And he said, "Oh, it's worse than that." He reached over on his desk. He picked up a piece of paper. And he said, "I just got this down from upstairs" -- meaning the Secretary of Defense's office -- "today." And he said, "This is a memo that describes how we're going to take out seven countries in five years, starting with Iraq, and then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and, finishing off, Iran." Read More

General Wesley Clark Wars Were Planned Seven Countries In Five Years 2:12 min

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNt7s_Wed_4

General Clark on the Iraq Invasion | American War Generals 2:59 min

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcWs4TFSjrY

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Mario A Leblanc's avatar

General Wesley Clark - America's Foreign Policy "Coup" October 3, 2007 8:14 min

https://youtu.be/TY2DKzastu8?si=TzzqCAkYIL2nyQH9

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Ahnaf Ibn Qais's avatar

Any 'War' with Iran would mean the deaths of thousands of US troops courtesy of SRBMs & IRBMs Saturating Air Defenses rapidly with Massed Volleys; Iran has Full Escalation Dominance in West Asia.

Such a 'War' would also mean the Implosion of the Global Economy due to 200+ USD per barrel Oil prices overnight, as well as the likewise implosion of the 'Rules Based International System.'

If the Americans have steeled themselves for all that, so be it!

Another Global Empire would bite the Dust!

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Ahnaf Ibn Qais's avatar

(For those interested)

If you wish to read (& listen!) to more of My commentary, here is my Main Stack:

https://thefallofthewest.substack.com

Thank You Kindly to everyone!

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J M Hatch's avatar

Start a war for 3 grunts, do nothing for all the people being tortured to death slowly by Warren Buffett in East Palestine.

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Kojo's avatar

It’s not for three grunts. It’s for the Zionists who run the U.S. Grunts were sacrificed by them.

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Lynn's avatar

Just who are you calling grunts?

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J M Hatch's avatar

People who take money to murder civilians, animals, and violate international law in return for piddling amounts of money, often for the pleasure of it. They can refuse to do any duty that violates international law and is not authorized by an act of Congress. How many children have you killed?

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KC Erasmus's avatar

The death of every Empire in history has been accompanied by the following four traits :

- Breach of the social contract

- Hedonism

- Mass Debt

- Never ending wars

Anyone willing to hazard a guess as to the future of the empire???

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Eddie's avatar

Exactly. The United States will face karma and it better come correct now. The bill has come due.

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Robert Billyard's avatar

"Escalation" is the rules based order as sponsored by Blinken the undertaker.

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Jay Henderson's avatar

Why is it that even those I agree with call events in Gaza a "war" this is NOT, by any stretch of imagination a war. Palestine civilians have no bombs, planes, missiles, white phosphorous or tanks. As there are some Israeli military fatalities we must assume that there are some armed fighters in Gaza unless, of course, the Israelis are shooting each other as is alleged to have happened on 7/October but apart from this there is no armed resistance in Gaza so to define it as a WAR is atrocious.

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Mary Wildfire's avatar

I don't believe anyone quoted actually believes that the troops are fighting terrorism, or that BDS supporters are Russian agents. But what worries me is how many either believe, or are in the pay of those who believe in the fever dreams of Armageddon and the Rapture and Jesus coming back to preside over a time of massive destruction of the Earth and all the Bad People who aren't fundamentalist Christians. I recently read that the Zionist lobbies who have so much influence in US politics are mostly not Zionist Jews, but Zionist Rapture Ready (TM) Christians. And it sure does look like the world is careening toward the scenario that has been giving these deranged people wet dreams for years. Yes--it includes nuclear war, oh boy, here comes Doctor Strangelove, riding a rocket

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Susan T's avatar

Mary Wildfire: That so many with power over our lives actually believe in the Rapture is astounding and scary. I have read that they support Israel and Zionism because it means the Rapture will happen sooner. They need some medication.

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Maryam's avatar

I am releived when I see that there are people in the world who sees the US policies for what they are, cinical lies based on personal profit. I asked myself, does it matter what we simple mortals think, will that influence the decisions of those corrupt politicians who only care about personal gain? I believe it does, we should not underestimate the movement of the civil societies, it is us who can make revolution. Evey action matters, so keep up with BDS, speaking up, brinnging up awarness, donating to UNR WA and other organisations that are on the ground in warzones and protesting.It all matters

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Wolf-Steppen's avatar

Wow, Caitlin, amen again! Your telling it like it is such a breath of fresh air, what with the level of false propaganda and the constant false claims that all of the U.S. and its allies' aggression ("the supreme international crime" according to the Nuremberg Protocols) is "justified". People having the courage, as you have, to speak the real truth to power about the unending imperial aggression(s) that the U.S. inflicts unceasingly, are fulfilling their DUTY(IES) to do so. You are of course right, it's all about resource preservation and control, and according to the empire, everyone must bow down to the extreme level(s) of evil unleashed by them. Thank God not everyone is fooled by the constant false propaganda and calls for everyone to blindly go along with the Empire's endless mass-murder.

The U.S. government and its allies are the war mongeriing scum of the Earth, having caused millions upon millions of deaths of millions of people, the vast majority of whom are civilians, a severe war crime. But the U.S. and its allies have committed atrocities with immunity and impunity for many decades now; and, no matter how much most of the American people and the people of the world don't want this endless war, we are completely ignored (even though We the People are supposed to be the ones who run the government, not war mongers and extreme criminals who have run everything for far too long), and the mass-carnage at their hands goes on ad nauseum no matter what the majority of the people want and don't want. But how do we take our government(s) back?

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Sam's avatar

On top of all the murders of civilians we also commit heinous crimes against humanity such as torture and renditions which instead of holding Bush accountable for it,Obama decided that we should just look forward and forget that ever happened. If the UN was actually what it says it is every American president would have been brought up on charges. Other countries would have sanctioned the hell out of America. But instead….

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California Girl's avatar

It sure seems like Biden wants to bomb-bomb-bomb Iran. Of course it wasn’t Israel! Oh, didn’t Israel recently bomb an eastern neighbor, Syria or Iraq?

This is beginning to remind me of the French Revolution in the 1700s.

I have to agree that American soldiers do not belong in the Middle East. Nor do American weapons sold to Israel to bomb Gaza.

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Patricia Blair's avatar

I’m really very weary of Biden’s bullshit, Israel’s genocide! Utter insanity!

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Susan T's avatar

you are weary, I am weary, think how the people of Palestine must feel? A lot more than weary.

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Patricia Blair's avatar

But of course, I am weary for them , too.

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Susan T's avatar

I feel more that weary for them. I feel enraged that this is happening to them, I feel powerless to do anything about it. Weary, to me, just sounds tired. I feel a lot more than tired of this, although I am that too.

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Feral Finster's avatar

And just like that, everyone stopped talking about the ICJ and the Team R - Biden Border Dick Waving Contest.

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J M Hatch's avatar

Don't forget, Rules Based Order = Führerprinzip

According to a few friends in the USA about ICJ, there already was almost no newspaper reportage (page 37, bottom left, in NYT) and pretty much zero cable-news, no sorry, cable-entertainment. Not that the people in East Palestine have time to read the NYT or Wall Street Journal. Have you seen otherwise?

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Feral Finster's avatar

From what I could tell, the MSM either buried the ICJ story or provided the Zionist spin. Shocker.

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Kojo's avatar

The same all over Europe. Silence. In sync.

And the same moment, the US orchestrates trumped up accusations against UNRWC as a distraction.....and they all parrot it instead. In sycn.

Not a coincidence at all, this synchronised lying. The "free commercial media" all over the colonial ("NATO") countries, is clearly being puppeted from Wash DC. That “disinflation” aka fact distortion bureau that Biden set up and appointed Nina Jankowicz to lead, clearly was not cancelled. Merely moved underground.

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Chang Chokaski's avatar

Very true!

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