"The societies that have rules that don't oppress are not following human rules."
Got any specific real-world examples to reference? Your statement is so vague that I can't even tell whether you're referring to human societies or nonhuman societies.
I'm sufficiently familiar with Huron-Iroquois territorial conflicts, the pre-contact history of intertribal rivalries of the Plains tribes of North America, the rise and fall of the Mayan Empire that occurred centuries before European contact ("Chiapas" is a region in Mexico; the indigenous people who live there have historically been Mayan subgroups) and the 20th century militarist regime of Imperial Japan (a hereditary monarchy!), to know that you're a romantic fantasizer.
But I'm curious as to where you got such fatuous ideas. Got any scholarly reference support for them?
"You should use their name, actually, instead of acting like a French fur trapper with no respect ( typical Judeo-Christians) ."
You're in no position to patronize me with linguistic nit-picks, given your reliance on unsupported arguments and cloud-castle narratives. I don't dictate the way that foreign language speakers refer to my ethnic group in their language.
I don't label the religions of others with stereotypical smears and sweeping generalizations that select the same few data points and factoids to twist logic in order to libel the totality of their religious traditions as the worst plague to ever befall humankind, either. Atheist regimes that propounded utopian egalitarianism held sway over the nation of France at the cusp of the 18th-19th century, and regimes that relied on more worked-out ideological blueprints managed to gain power and govern more than a billion people for much of the 20th century. The results of those experiments were not pretty.
I'd advise proponents of repeating the atheist utopian experiment- or of establishing some Rousseauean-animist alternative, of the sort you seem to enjoy fantasizing about- to attempt their next beta test at a much less ambitious scale. A social consensus consisting of a population of 30,000, say- approximately the estimated size of the Huron Confederation at the time of first European contact. https://historykeen.com/huron-tribe/
That seems to me to be a more doable project than table-pounding about the eradication of "the Abrahamic religions", as if success at that project was the top priority to returning a planet of 8 billion people to a Golden Age of Natural Grace, Egalitarian Justice, and Plenty.
The chart above (which likely requires some magnification in order to be legible) provides metrics for the 100 largest death tolls in human history that resulted from commands and policies decreed by human leaders. The chart is taken from The Great Big Book Of Horrible Things, published in 2011. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Big_Book_of_Horrible_Things
After you read it,, maybe you can wow me with a detailed refutation of the claims that you find to be spurious. That task shouldn't be beyond your Professorial expertise at History. Maybe you can get your review published in an accredited journal, to burnish your resume.
You obviously didn't even bother to read the numbers found in the links I've already posted. Couldn't wait to spout the unsupported assumptions of your grandiloquent rhetorical boilerplate. And you couldn't be slowed up by actually reading the numbers.
How are you managing to obtain such detailed knowledge of features of the culture of Cahokia, to assert so confidently that Cahokia lacked either police or courts? The only available evidence is archaeological- and is is so often the case, it's rudimentary. Cultural ecology researchers can only offer some general guesses about the factors that led to the eventual decline of Cahokia in the 13th and 14th century. (again; pre-European contact.)
"I'm a professor of History. I've got a shit load of evidence. You still haven't given me a single example of a Judeo-Babylonian law structure in even one society that doesn't oppress. Why don't you try that, and then I'll supply more examples and evidence. Oh, because you can't find a single example of laws and courts not being used primarily to oppress..."
"Professor of History"? You don't even sound like an amateur historian to me. You sound like a quack. You're capable of packing so much clueless, axe-grinding, Bad Interpretation into one paragraph that I have to confine myself to selecting a few of your sillier errors.
Are you actually implying that modern jurisprudence- especially that found in the modern societies of the West- hasn't substantially changed in any form since Talmudic "Judeo-Babylonian law structure" developed 1000 years ago?
"Lawsuits to settle allegations of misconduct by more than 7,600 officers from around the country have amounted to more than $3.2 billion over the past decade, reports the Washington Post. The alleged misconduct led to nearly 40,000 payouts to resolve lawsuits and claims of wrongdoing at 25 of the nation’s largest police and sheriff’s departments between 2010 and 2020. More than 1,200 officers in the departments surveyed had been the subject of at least five payments; more than 200 had 10 or more..." https://thecrimereport.org/2022/03/09/police-misconduct-cost-taxpayers-over-3-2-billion-in-settlements/
Did the "Judeo-Babylonian" courts of the Halachic era make that sort of allowance for effective redress of grievances by inhabitants of their society who brought suits claiming law enforcement misconduct by the government institutions? I don't pretend to be an expert on the theory and practice of Talmudic jurisprudence in the Middle Easte in the 6th-11th centuries. That game appears to be more like one of your your specialties. But if you know something that I don't, have at it.
"you can't find a single example of laws and courts not being used primarily to oppress."
I just posted an example above, complete with a reference link. Using a keyword search, it took about ten seconds to find.
"The societies that have rules that don't oppress are not following human rules."
Got any specific real-world examples to reference? Your statement is so vague that I can't even tell whether you're referring to human societies or nonhuman societies.
I'm sufficiently familiar with Huron-Iroquois territorial conflicts, the pre-contact history of intertribal rivalries of the Plains tribes of North America, the rise and fall of the Mayan Empire that occurred centuries before European contact ("Chiapas" is a region in Mexico; the indigenous people who live there have historically been Mayan subgroups) and the 20th century militarist regime of Imperial Japan (a hereditary monarchy!), to know that you're a romantic fantasizer.
But I'm curious as to where you got such fatuous ideas. Got any scholarly reference support for them?
"You should use their name, actually, instead of acting like a French fur trapper with no respect ( typical Judeo-Christians) ."
You're in no position to patronize me with linguistic nit-picks, given your reliance on unsupported arguments and cloud-castle narratives. I don't dictate the way that foreign language speakers refer to my ethnic group in their language.
I don't label the religions of others with stereotypical smears and sweeping generalizations that select the same few data points and factoids to twist logic in order to libel the totality of their religious traditions as the worst plague to ever befall humankind, either. Atheist regimes that propounded utopian egalitarianism held sway over the nation of France at the cusp of the 18th-19th century, and regimes that relied on more worked-out ideological blueprints managed to gain power and govern more than a billion people for much of the 20th century. The results of those experiments were not pretty.
I'd advise proponents of repeating the atheist utopian experiment- or of establishing some Rousseauean-animist alternative, of the sort you seem to enjoy fantasizing about- to attempt their next beta test at a much less ambitious scale. A social consensus consisting of a population of 30,000, say- approximately the estimated size of the Huron Confederation at the time of first European contact. https://historykeen.com/huron-tribe/
That seems to me to be a more doable project than table-pounding about the eradication of "the Abrahamic religions", as if success at that project was the top priority to returning a planet of 8 billion people to a Golden Age of Natural Grace, Egalitarian Justice, and Plenty.
No. You really are appallingly ignorant of world history.
https://www.scifacts.net/human/genghis-khan-death-toll/
https://www.scifacts.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/06atrocities_timeline-popup-768x1012.jpg
The chart above (which likely requires some magnification in order to be legible) provides metrics for the 100 largest death tolls in human history that resulted from commands and policies decreed by human leaders. The chart is taken from The Great Big Book Of Horrible Things, published in 2011. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Big_Book_of_Horrible_Things
Ahem. You're ignoring the other links I posted, which were not from Wikipedia.
The Wikipedia entry refers to an actual book. I found the Wiki link preferable to posting to, like, Amazon.
A Wikipedia entry with a bibliography is infinitely preferable as a reference source to any reference you've posted yet, which is nothing.
But since you're posing like the Wiki link isn't worth responding to, here's an online link to the book itself, on loan for free
https://archive.org/details/greatbigbookofho0000whit
After you read it,, maybe you can wow me with a detailed refutation of the claims that you find to be spurious. That task shouldn't be beyond your Professorial expertise at History. Maybe you can get your review published in an accredited journal, to burnish your resume.
You obviously didn't even bother to read the numbers found in the links I've already posted. Couldn't wait to spout the unsupported assumptions of your grandiloquent rhetorical boilerplate. And you couldn't be slowed up by actually reading the numbers.
How are you managing to obtain such detailed knowledge of features of the culture of Cahokia, to assert so confidently that Cahokia lacked either police or courts? The only available evidence is archaeological- and is is so often the case, it's rudimentary. Cultural ecology researchers can only offer some general guesses about the factors that led to the eventual decline of Cahokia in the 13th and 14th century. (again; pre-European contact.)
"I'm a professor of History. I've got a shit load of evidence. You still haven't given me a single example of a Judeo-Babylonian law structure in even one society that doesn't oppress. Why don't you try that, and then I'll supply more examples and evidence. Oh, because you can't find a single example of laws and courts not being used primarily to oppress..."
"Professor of History"? You don't even sound like an amateur historian to me. You sound like a quack. You're capable of packing so much clueless, axe-grinding, Bad Interpretation into one paragraph that I have to confine myself to selecting a few of your sillier errors.
Are you actually implying that modern jurisprudence- especially that found in the modern societies of the West- hasn't substantially changed in any form since Talmudic "Judeo-Babylonian law structure" developed 1000 years ago?
"Lawsuits to settle allegations of misconduct by more than 7,600 officers from around the country have amounted to more than $3.2 billion over the past decade, reports the Washington Post. The alleged misconduct led to nearly 40,000 payouts to resolve lawsuits and claims of wrongdoing at 25 of the nation’s largest police and sheriff’s departments between 2010 and 2020. More than 1,200 officers in the departments surveyed had been the subject of at least five payments; more than 200 had 10 or more..." https://thecrimereport.org/2022/03/09/police-misconduct-cost-taxpayers-over-3-2-billion-in-settlements/
Did the "Judeo-Babylonian" courts of the Halachic era make that sort of allowance for effective redress of grievances by inhabitants of their society who brought suits claiming law enforcement misconduct by the government institutions? I don't pretend to be an expert on the theory and practice of Talmudic jurisprudence in the Middle Easte in the 6th-11th centuries. That game appears to be more like one of your your specialties. But if you know something that I don't, have at it.
"you can't find a single example of laws and courts not being used primarily to oppress."
I just posted an example above, complete with a reference link. Using a keyword search, it took about ten seconds to find.