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Vin LoPresti's avatar

WHAT IT HORRIBLY MEANS TO STARVE TO DEATH (mostly from a Palestinian physician quoted on Al Jazeera with added [] from me)

Initially, the body relies upon glycogen [stored in liver], before turning to fats and then muscles, causing the body to shrink and the starving person to assume a gaunt, hollow-cheeked look.

The brain is deprived of the energy it requires to function, so the starving person experiences irritability, mood swings and difficulty concentrating.

Basically, the body just slows down, as it pulls energy from other organs to keep the brain and the heart going

The heart’s function will also be affected eventually, with a corresponding drop in blood pressure and pulse.

An adult heart typically weighs about 300g (11oz), but records show that it can shrink to 140g (5oz) in the later stages of starvation.

Eventually, if no infection takes hold in the body [immune system failing for lack of protein and other resources], the heart will fail [the person will die of heart failure].

As the immune system shuts down, most starving people succumb to secondary infections like gastroenteritis [as organisms from the fetid sanitation-deprived environment invade their gut].

Just typing the word “Israel” causes me to want to rinse my hands in strong bleach.

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Pippi Smythe's avatar

Holodomor

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Roslyn Ross's avatar

The Holomodor was not intentional but incompetence and a disregard for those who suffered. The genocidal holocaust in Gaza in particular and all of Occupied Palestine is completely intentional and planned.

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Tom's avatar

*Disregard is being harsh, but even if that's true, it was widespread disregard not targeted at Ukraine either before or after. To say as much like Pippi does is rank disingenuous intellectual fraud.

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Roslyn Ross's avatar

Yes, the Holomodor was more complex and not official policy for exterminating Ukrainians in the way that Israel has always had a policy of exterminating non-Jews, particularly the Palestinians.

The Holomodor was more like famines which happened in Ireland and India during British rule. Incompetence, indifference, ignorance rather than active policies to kill a group.

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Tom's avatar

Exactly right, with one caveat. The "Irish Potato Famine" WAS an engineered attempt at genocide, or at the very least an intentional "let's let it happen so we can suppress the Irish and profit" situation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nL_RsAjxhg

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gypsy33's avatar

Absolutely correct, Tom.

There were ships laden with food for the Irish people on the coast which the Bastard Brits refused to allow in.

Much of the financing for the goods

Intended for the Irish came from Native American tribes.

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Roslyn Ross's avatar

I am not sure the Malthusian connection holds up. The famine happened because the Irish were dependent on one crop, potatoes. And yes, there were reasons for that but little evidence it was a plan.

And yes the British considered the Irish to be primitive, no doubt as the Irish considered the Scots to be primitive when they colonised their land.

There have been major famines in Malawi, where I lived for more than five years for the same reason - reliance on one crop, maize, which, when it failed meant the people starved.

The situation in Malawi arise from ignorance, arrogance, greed on the part of Government and chiefs and no doubt the same in Ireland. Was it an active plan on the part of those in control to starve the Malawians to death? No. And neither was it a plan to starve the Irish. The Malawi famines were caused by Malawians and not an occupier.

Same with the Bengal famine blamed by some on the British as an intentional extermination plan. Which if studied in the times and the history again makes no sense. Having lived in India for nearly five years I have read a lot of its history in situ.

Any study of history shows that most disasters are the result of arrogance, ignorance, stupidity, greed and self-serving actions rather than an actual plan or conspiracy.

The Irish famine was a tragedy for many and a new life in the Americas, Australia and New Zealand for many more. And Ireland today is doing well. It is probably time for them to put down their mantle of victimhood for such robes are always destructive as we see in Israel.

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Tom's avatar

Jones himself admitted it was not intentional genocide [like what the Zionists are doing to the Palestinians].

On the 13th of April of 1933, Gareth Jones expands in this article his claim regarding the cause of the situation. He states “the main reason for the catastrophe in Russian agriculture is the Soviet policy of collectivisation.”

Today, by the “holodomor-genocide” campaigners, collectivization is pushed as being the sole cause of the situation. Despite this, Gareth Jones of all people, even admitted the following factors played a role: natural droughts in some areas, landowning kulaks who he says their “incentive to work disappeared”, “massacre of cattle by peasants not wishing to sacrifice their property for nothing to the collective farm”, and that “prices have dropped most in precisely those products, wheat, timber, oil, butter, & co., which the Soviet Union exports, and least in those products, such as machinery, which the Soviet Union imports”.

In the previously attached article from April 13th of 1933, Jones also predicted that the next harvest will likely be worse and stated, “The outlook for the next harvest is, therefore, black. It is dangerous to make any prophecy, for the miracle of perfect climatic conditions can always make good a part of the unfavourable factors.”

Jones placed the blame mainly on the Soviet policies of collectivization, but still admitted — unlike the “holodomor-genocide” campaigners of today — the previously stated factors. Today if you mention these factors, you are demonized by certain people as being just as bad as the people who deny the holocaust, that you are a genocide denier equal to a holocaust denier.

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Tom's avatar

Holodomor = Focus-grouped fiction come up with by some nazoid expat Ukrainians in Canada in the 70s and 80s.

https://discomfiting.medium.com/holodomor-fact-or-fiction-17324ffe1d46

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Pippi Smythe's avatar

Murdered in Mongolia in 1935 on the orders of Stalin, the Welsh investigative journalist Gareth Jones is a national hero in Ukraine for reporting the truth about the Holodomor (the Soviet Union’s politically-driven famine that killed millions) and is widely believed to be the inspiration for the character Mr Jones in George Orwell’s Animal Farm. A graduate of Aberystwyth, Strasbourg and Cambridge universities, Jones—who spoke five languages—was talented, well-connected, and determined to discover the truth behind the momentous political events of the post-war period. He travelled widely to report on Mussolini’s Italy, the fledgling Irish Free State, and the Depression-ravaged United States, and was the first foreign journalist to travel with Hitler and Goebbels after the Nazis had taken power in Germany. Jones’ quest for truth also drew him to the Soviet Union in 1934 where his reporting of the Holodomor incurred the wrath of Stalin. The following year, on the eve of his 30th birthday, Jones was shot dead by Chinese communist bandits with links to the NKVD, the Soviet Union’s secret police, and is buried in his hometown of Barry in Wales. Now the subject of Mr Jones, a feature film that depicts his battle against the Kremlin’s ‘fake news’ agenda of famine denial, The Man Who Knew Too Much is the first biography of Gareth Jones and reveals the remarkable yet tragically short life of this fascinating and determined Welshman who pioneered the role of investigative journalism.

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Tom's avatar

https://mltheory.wordpress.com/2014/06/07/facts-about-the-holodomor-and-why-its-fake/

The Photographs

There are many pictures purporting to depict the famine still circulating these days. These were in fact published by the German and American pro-Nazi Press (such as Hearst Press). These pictures however, are mainly used for shock value since the existence of starvation says nothing about its causes or its severity. They are used in order to depict the monstrosity of the famine, to win sympathy to the Holodomor theory. Naturally, the famine was a humanitarian disaster but that doesn’t make the Holodomor theory any more true.

I am not exaggerating when I say these pictures were published by the Nazis or their supporters such as the American Hearst Press. On top of that most of them are not actually taken where they claim to be. Many of the photographs are actually from World War One, the American civil war, the great depression, or the Russian civil war. Since those days this array of fraudulent “Holodomor photos” has been supplemented with pictures from the siege of Leningrad, battle of Kharkov etc. Probably the best individual study of the use of fake Holodomor photos by the far-right is D. Tottle’s Fraud, Famine and Fascism.

Despite these pictures and other material published by the nazis and their American supporters, there is no evidence–not even bad evidence–to suggest the famine was deliberate or man-made.

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Tom's avatar

Gareth Jones was a Hitler associate and the story of the 'Holodomor' was fabricated by the likes of Nazis, Bandera and his OUN acolytes. All as part of the campaign to demonize the Soviet Union and launder the image of the "former" Nazis welcomed into the West after WWII, often with both of those goals being part of the same operation.

Its origins are widely credited to a Welsh man named Gareth Jones. Who was he? Jones before arriving in the Soviet Union in March of 1933, he was in nazi Germany. In an article entitled, “WITH HITLER ACROSS GERMANY” which was published on February 23rd of 1933, he outlines his experience flying on Hitler’s private plane along with other high ranking nazi officials such as Goebbels. In the piece he says of the nazi leaders, “There is nothing hard and Prussian about my fellow-passengers. They could not be more friendly and polite, even if I were a red-hot nazi myself.” Continuing, after fawning over the nazis, he says regarding Hitler: “There are two Hitlers — the natural boyish Hitler, and the Hitler who is inspired by tremendous national force, a great Hitler. It is the second Hitler who has stirred Germany to an awakening.” In a following article by Jones, he states regarding Goebbels that “He has a remarkably appealing personality, with a sense of humour and a keen brain. One feels at home with him immediately, for he is amusing and likeable.”

After leaving nazi Germany, he arrived in the Soviet Union. After arriving, Gareth Jones reported that “millions are dying of hunger”. In the article he gives multiple anecdotes of unidentified and nameless persons — devoid of any information of any backgrounds, of their class interests, etc — making claims such as “we are waiting for death”, while presenting the entirety of not only Ukraine but the entire Soviet Union, as a monolith.

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Tom's avatar

There is absolutely ZERO evidence that Jones was murdered on the orders of Stalin or any other Soviet. You are telling lies. Not even the staunchly anti-Russia Wikipedia goes to the lengths you are going.

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Tom's avatar

https://web.archive.org/web/20050411204357/http://www.rationalrevolution.net/special/library/famine.htm

Douglas Tottle traveled to Ukraine and Russia to investigate the claims and wrote an entire well-documented book about it.

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martin's avatar

mr jones is the oppressive farmer who neglects and exploits the animals. his incompetence and cruelty trigger the rebellion that leads to the creation of “animal farm.”

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Pippi Smythe's avatar

Thanks.

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Tom's avatar
May 1Edited

Tablet? Are you serious? Under a Substack article about Zionist genocide?

As noted, the name "Holodomor" wasn't even coined until the early 1980s and only at the behest of a joint CIA-Ukraine expat effort to demonize the USSR.

In fact, the famine that spawned the myth, wasn't confined to Ukraine and affected swaths of the USSR including Kazakhstan. Why aren't the Kazakhs fabricating myths that they were uniquely targeted? That's not a rhetorical question. You need to zoom out and see the real historical picture.

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Tom's avatar

https://www.counterpunch.org/2017/03/03/the-holodomor-and-the-film-bitter-harvest-are-fascist-lies/

The Ukrainian nationalist film “Bitter Harvest” propagates lies invented by Ukrainian nationalists. In his review Louis Proyect propagates these lies.

Proyect cites Jeff Coplon’s 1988 Village Voice article “In Search of a Soviet Holocaust: A 55-Year-Old Famine Feeds the Right.” In it Coplon shows that the leading “mainstream” anticommunist Western experts on Soviet history rejected any notion of a deliberate famine aimed at Ukrainians. They still reject it. Proyect fails to mention this fact.

There was a very serious famine in the USSR, including (but not limited to) the Ukrainian SSR, in 1932-33. But there has never been any evidence of a “Holodomor” or “deliberate famine,” and there is none today.

The “Holodomor” fiction was invented in by Ukrainian Nazi collaborators who found havens in Western Europe, Canada, and the USA after the war. An early account is Yurij Chumatskij, Why Is One Holocaust Worth More Than Others? published in Australia in 1986 by “Veterans of the Ukrainian Insurgent Army” this work is an extended attack on “Jews” for being too pro-communist.

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gypsy33's avatar

This is a conversation about Gaza, hun. @ Pippi

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gypsy33's avatar

Vin, I have alcohol wipes to clean your computer/phone with.

I recall Bobby Sands’ hunger strike and the statement that he died of

“self-consumption”.

What worse way to die, with possibly the exception of the way Aaron Bushnell made his statement.

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Vin LoPresti's avatar

At least it was Aaron's choice and his mind was his own and lucid when he pulled that trigger, dear gyp. I'd choose that end any day over losing my clarity/capacity to think as my brain gradually died. fiFP: fuck israel, free Palestine.

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CK's avatar

Aided and abetted by the US government and US taxpayers for at least 80 years

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CK's avatar

Not “Israel” — Eretz Israel. Shlomo Sand explains the difference.

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dale ruff's avatar

To my eyes , the Zionist regime in Israel is committing genocide, indisputable, now with 65 days of no food allowed in and food running out. The absurd claim that they are doing this so Hamas will not cease it is beyond absurd: with 200-300 large trucks of food a day, in a month, where the hell would they "hide" it? In their partially destroyed 3 ft tunnels...and why? And with IDF tanks and snipers watching the trucks unload, they would kill any Hamas "bandits" who even popped out of their hiding places. "Those who can be persuaded to believe absurdities can be persuaded to commit atrocities."

And that is what is happening with the Israeli narrative, which no one outside Israel believes.

Starvation of a civilian population is a clear war crime and since the policy is deliberate, without doubt meets the legal standard of genocide, as the world sees clearly every day with NO FOOD and DAILY MASSACRE. Even the MSM in the West can't hide the facts, given the virtually total destruction of Gaza and the tens of thousands of women and children murdered. Even in the US, the last ally of Israel, most Democrats believe Israel is committing genocide, according to a poll, and a more recent poll show the majority of the American public now disapproves of Israel actions.

I am often accused of being a Hamas propagandist (( I think Hamas has committed war crimes so that is also absurd) and I have zero access to Hamas publications or tv (they don't have any). My total opposition to Israeli policy is based on my main sources: The Times of Israel, Jerusalem Post, an Haaretz. That is where I get my information, along with the videos of the genocide on the ground in Gaza. IN fact, the people who most have formed my opposition to Israel are Jews, Jewish voice for peace, Noam Chomsky, and Bernie Sanders. The Israeli narrative has collapsed because it is based on lies so absurd even Israelis don't believe them. Shortly after Oct 7, a poll of Israeli citizens showed that only 4% believed Netanyahu was telling the truth about "the war."

So the real narrative is being conveyed by the images...the visual evidence of deliberate murder an destruction...and the laughable claims by the murderers that they are doing everything possible to avoid harmng civilians, as they deliberately drop 2000 lb bombs on them an starve them to death........

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Roslyn Ross's avatar

Yes, gotta love the way they dismiss facts as Hamas propaganda when the facts are not coming from Hamas or even the Palestinians most of the time but from the sicko videos the Israeli soldiers make public, the international medical and aid groups who have been on the ground, the Israeli and international human rights groups and from the foul mouths of Israelis in general and politicians and Government in public. They say it all and they laugh and gloat and cheer to a psychopathic degree. They are condemned by their own insanity and the genocidal facts come out of their own mouths.

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Nizar Ibrahim's avatar

Evil Israeli apartheid terrorists commit crimes of genocide at any chance afforded them, including the gathering of hungry and thirsty Palestinians approaching and gathering in the hundreds around food aid trucks that are all whipped out in a flashing instant of tank shell explosions followed by aircraft bombing. This sadistic brutality has never been seen before in all of history,

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Joy in HK fiFP's avatar

Sounds like straight out of the Old Testament to me.

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Wildrhody's avatar

Absolutely agree that they're following their "script"ures. The prophet for "profit," Joseph, who allegedly interpretated the Pharoah's dream, said a famine was coming in 7 years, and the duped leader believed him, therefore put Joseph second-in-command. Joseph then went about collecting up all the food supply, eventually causing the famine, meaning a shortage of food. When the famine began and the Egyptians had no food, since Joseph had hoarded it, they used their money to buy food from Joseph in the first year, but then the money ran out, so in the second year they gave up their livestock for bread. My question here is, why couldn't they eat their livestock? Were there laws made against it, like how they're currently demonizing and possibly moving towards not eating meat due to climate change from cow farts? In the third year the Egyptians came to Joseph one final time, this time giving up their land for seeds to grow, with 20 percent of everything they grew given to the Pharaoh and the Israelites/priestly class ("unto this day"). Funny how they could now grow food in the third year of an alleged 7-year famine because they were given seeds. Also take note, Joseph had the Egyptians moved to the cities aka 15-minute cities on the horizon of today.

As an interesting sidenote, from the online book, "The Store City of Pithom," a storehouse for grains was archeologically found, and in the records a title for one of the Ptolemaic priests was inscribed "Mer ar," who was indicated as the "keeper of the storehouse." In Exodus 1, it's alleged that the Israelites were slaves being forced to build the "treasure cities" of Pithom and Rameses, which was supposed to be around 300 years after the Joseph famine. Strangely, one of Joseph's brethren, Levi (Levites are the priestly class of Moses and Aaron), had 3 sons during the Joseph era, named Gershon, Kohath, and **Merari.** (Gen. 46:11-KJV). I find that very "cohen"cidental that the name Merari is very close to the interpreted name "Mer ar." This means that this storehouse was built during Joseph's time, and it makes total sense, seeing as he had to put all the grains collected somewhere. (See page 7 of link).

https://archive.org/details/storecityofpitho01navi/page/7/mode/1up?view=theater&q=mer+ar

Anyway, I could go on and on....

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Joy in HK fiFP's avatar

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. But reading such matter with such a degree of intensity is not something I care to do, and won't do, any more often than I have to.

You, OTOH seem to have a real interest in this. Enjoy, if that's the right word for plowing through those blood-drenched fields of text.

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gypsy33's avatar

Ain’t gonna give you a “like” on this one Dale—not that you give a fuck— because you equated, like all good Murkins, Hamas with terrorists.

Hezbollah? Ansarallah?

Freedom fighters ALL.

Was Nat Turner a “terrorist”?

Sitting Bull?

Crazy Horse?

Tecumseh?

All killed men, women and children in their respective quests for freedom.

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dale ruff's avatar

Virtually all armies commit war crimes, including Hamas. Pretending otherwise is idiocy. Was Nat Turner a terrorist: yes, fueled by apocalyptic religious visions, "Nat Turner's Rebellion resulted in the death of 55 white men, women, and children before state militias suppressed the uprising, while 120 Black men, women, and children, many of whom were not involved in the revolt, were killed by soldiers and local mobs in retaliation." I don't know about you but I find it impossible to say that killing children is not terrorism (for political reasons). If you excuse killing children, then I can understand why you would not agree with me.

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gypsy33's avatar

So who put their children in danger of a possible and shoulda-been -expected revolt?

SLAVE OWNERS.

Likewise with the so-called white “pioneers” stealing Native American land.

Also, you ignored my comments about the Great Chiefs.

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dale ruff's avatar

If you defend killing children, you are no better than the Zionists who defend killing children. There is NO excuse. I have not ignored you willingness to defend killing children. I would urge you to revise your thinking lest you join the ranks of the Nazis, the Zionists, and all those who have defending massacres of children as "justified." Blaming slave owners for the killing of white children is no different from Zionist blaming the killing of Palestinian children on Hamas. There is no justification; in no universe is killing children justified. If you disagree, you join the evil legions who justify such murders. As for the Great Chiefs, they had no policies of killing children: "“Great Chiefs” like Sitting Bull, Crazy Horse, Geronimo, and Tecumseh were leaders in resistance movements, not butchers of innocents. Their reputations were often vilified in settler accounts to justify expansion and extermination campaigns.

While no group in human history is free from violence, the idea that Native American chiefs specifically targeted and killed children is mostly a distortion rooted in colonial justification narratives. "

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martin's avatar

do you think hamas specifically targeted and killed children?

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dale ruff's avatar

Both Hamas and the IDF deny "specifically" targeting and killing children.

"According to the United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs, at least 29 children were killed during the October 7 attack.

FactCheck.org

Reports from various sources detail that children were among the victims in multiple locations.

Wikipedia

Specific Incidents

In Kibbutz Be'eri, approximately 130 people were killed, including women, children, and infants. ​"

" Investigations Confirming Child Deaths

1. Human Rights Watch (HRW)

HRW reported that Hamas and other Palestinian armed groups committed war crimes and crimes against humanity during the October 7 assault, including deliberate attacks on civilians. Their findings are based on extensive video analysis, survivor interviews, and forensic evidence. ​

Human Rights Watch

_(Note: HRW has called out Israeli war crimes: "Israeli authorities have caused massive, deliberate forced displacement of Palestinian civilians in Gaza since October 2023 and are responsible for war crimes and crimes against humanity." )

2. Amnesty International

Amnesty International documented that Palestinian armed groups deliberately targeted civilians, resulting in the deaths of over 800 civilians, including children. They also reported on the abduction of children, such as two-year-old Aviv Asher and her four-year-old sister Raz, who were held hostage until November 24. ​

(Note: "Amnesty concludes Israel is committing genocide in Gaza" amnesty.org)

(The UN Human Rights office has found Israel is committing genocide)

3. United Nations Independent International Commission of Inquiry

The UN Commission investigated the October 7 attacks and concluded that Hamas and other Palestinian militants committed war crimes, including the intentional killing of civilians. Their report includes detailed findings on attacks carried out on and after October 7, 2023.

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Carrie Deitzel's avatar

Dale-I agree with everything you’ve said. Israel has been lying for years and probably couldn’t exist w/o US support; yet when the chips are down, Israel shows no regard for anyone but Israel. Since October 7, the lies coming from Israeli officials rival Donald Trump’s in number and in disregard for the facts that people can clearly see.

It is beyond ridiculous to try to sell the idea that standing up for Palestinians is the same as being pro-Hamas or antisemitic. Being pro-Palestinians is pro-human rights which is what every decent human being should be. I have no animosity toward Jewish people. I do, however, have a distain for anyone, anywhere, who supports Israel’s current assault on the Palestinians. It is genocide and I am ashamed of the United States’ continuing role in it. Frankly, I consider Israel’s war on Gaza to be an unconscionable, opportunistic, land grab undertaken to acquire and develop Gaza’s considerable natural resources, including oil, gas, gold, and fisheries.

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Chang Chokaski's avatar

Every empire in history has run on the same currency: control of the story. When the story collapses, the empire collapses. That's why they cling so desperately to narrative — why the Empire Managers and oligarchs flood media, culture, and education with their versions of reality. They know their real fortresses are made of belief, not stone.

Empire Managers do not sit awake at night worrying about court rulings. They worry about something older and simpler: the moment the dream slips from the people's hands. The moment millions stop believing. The moment the spell of propaganda breaks and raw numbers start mattering again.

And these Zionist beliefs and narratives that are built on cruelty rot faster than walls. And we are watching it happen now. The desperation of the Zionists and Empire Managers is becoming more apparent...

When enough of us stop believing, stop consenting, stop obeying, nothing they build — not walls, not wealth, not machines, NOT EVEN NARRATIVES — will be enough to save them from the judgment they spent their lives trying to escape.

[Note: Please credit https://substack.com/@guardianism for much of the above words (and Caitlin of course)]

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The Revolution Continues's avatar

Yes! Stop believing the lies! Stop consenting to be lied to! Stop obeying the genocide-enablers and watch both them and their narratives crumble into the dust of history.

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MM's avatar

Another excellent post by Caitlin.

Of course by now, with 60K/70K/100+K? dead, we have not seen ANY Western leader change their Zionist stance (excluding Ireland).

And in the meantime, the US is doing everything it can disappear/deport people protesting mass death.

The word "anti-semitism" has lost all meaning, but the word "genocide" has not.

I have lost all hope for humanity.

How and when the fuck will this nightmare end?

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Longtrail's avatar

I feel you. It's horrible. If you understood 4GW you can see how the Palestinians🇵🇸 are WINNING! I know it seems insane but what would you do if you witnessed an adult beating a toddler to death? The zionist state🇮🇱 has been bombing defenseless Gaza and Lebanon using American planes and helicopters dropping American bombs and missiles. The world witnesses. There's a paradigm shift in opinion. Most flavored nations become pariahs. The world's foremost terrorist states are defeated. The people woke up to the truth, corrected their error and take their nations back from those disgusting zionist🇮🇱 scum!

Don't wait! Get pissed! Get angry! Fight! Demonstrate! Give to Islamic charities serving Gaza. It's the DEED that counts.

Damn.

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Joy in HK fiFP's avatar

Don't forget there are Christians and Christian charities working there. Christian Zionists would like you to forget about them.

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Roslyn Ross's avatar

The 60K is only identified dead. There are hundreds of thousands, most of them civilians and children, rotting in the rubble, eaten by dogs, evaporated and shredded, never to be identified formally. Somewhere between 400,000 and 800,000 are dead if one goes by Lancet estimates at the end of 2024 and Trump figures quoted months ago.

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Spunty's avatar

And those who have died from enforced starvation aren't counted either.

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Roslyn Ross's avatar

We will only have final figures when we can count how many are left alive. The Israelis issue ID cards to every single Palestinian under their colonial rule including those in Gaza so they have the data. If the Israelis refuse to release it then the Gaza Ministry would also have it and one would presume have sent it to safety so at the end of this genocidal colonial slaughter we will know the names and ages of the dead. Indicators are it will be a million and if the bombing and starvation are allowed to continue, much more than that.

Trump used figures of 1.5 to 1.7million left in Gaza which means that between 600,000 and 800,000 are dead. The Lancet medical journal estimated around 300,000 dead by the end of 2024.

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dale ruff's avatar

You are unaware of many who have denounced Israel in the West and elsewhere.

"Colombian President Gustavo Petro has described Israel's campaign in Gaza as genocide.​

Wikipedia

Brazilian President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva stated, "It's not a war, it's a genocide."​

Wikipedia

+1

Wikipedia

+1

Irish President Michael D. Higgins called for the al-Ahli Arab Hospital explosion to be investigated as a war crime.​

Wikipedia

Norwegian Prime Minister Jonas Gahr Støre asserted that Israel's actions violated international laws of war.​

Spanish Prime Minister Pedro Sánchez expressed "serious doubts" about Israel's adherence to international law, describing its actions in Gaza as "indiscriminate killing."​

Wikipedia

South African President Cyril Ramaphosa condemned the collective punishment of Gaza.​

Wikipedia

+1

Wikipedia

+1

Belgian Deputy Prime Minister Petra De Sutter called for sanctions against Israel and an EU ban on countries responsible for war crimes.​

Wikipedia

French Foreign Minister has supported the International Criminal Court's investigations into alleged war crimes in Gaza.​

All Israel News

🧑‍💼 Western Officials and Diplomats

In February 2024, over 800 civil servants from the U.S., U.K., and EU released a statement criticizing their governments' support of Israel in Gaza, warning that such policies could be contributing to war crimes and violations of international law. " In addition, the majority of Democrats in the US. according to a poll, believe Israel is committing genocide, and a majority of the entire public now disapprove of Israel.

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MM's avatar
May 1Edited

Yes, I am aware of many of those leaders' views. Unfortunately, their views don't carry much weight on the global stage.

I should have specified that was referring to the G7 leaders, especially the US, the UK, and Germany. Without one of them changing their official stance, the genocide will continue.

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dale ruff's avatar

The Western World includes over 70 nations, and you include only Europe and the US, about 35. Each nation that denounces Israeli war crimes increases the pressure...so their weight, together, is influential. " several G7 nations have notably shifted their positions on Israel in recent months, reflecting growing frustration over its conduct in Gaza and the West Bank.​

1. UK and France Considering Palestinian State Recognition

In a significant development, the UK and France are in discussions with Saudi Arabia about formally recognizing a Palestinian state. UK Foreign Secretary David Lammy confirmed that this initiative could be announced as early as June 2025. The move is tied to conditions such as the removal of Hamas from Gaza's governance and a demilitarization process, aiming to make recognition part of a concrete path toward a two-state solution rather than a symbolic gesture. ​

The Guardian

2. G7 Condemnation of Israeli Settlement Expansion

The G7 foreign ministers have strongly condemned Israel's recent settlement activities in the West Bank, including the legalization of five outposts and the declaration of over 1,270 hectares as state lands. They stated that these actions are inconsistent with international law and counterproductive to the cause of peace. ​

Ministero degli Affari Esteri

+2

Anadolu Ajansı

+2

Al Arabiya English

+2

3. Calls for Compliance with International Law

In November 2024, G7 foreign ministers emphasized that Israel must fully comply with its obligations under international law, including international humanitarian law, in all circumstances. They expressed concern over the humanitarian situation in Gaza and called on Israel to ease obstacles to humanitarian aid. ​

apnews.com

+7

Geo24 News

+7

Ministero degli Affari Esteri

+7

4. Opposition to Military Operations in Rafah

In April 2024, the G7 foreign ministers opposed a full-scale military operation by Israel in Rafah, warning that such an action would have catastrophic consequences on the civilian population. They also criticized the unacceptable number of civilian casualties in Gaza during Israel's military offensive. ​

5. Support for a Two-State Solution

The G7 has reaffirmed its commitment to a two-state solution, emphasizing the importance of unifying the Gaza Strip with the West Bank under the Palestinian Authority. They stressed that mutual recognition, including the recognition of a Palestinian state at the appropriate time, is a crucial component of the political process. ​

\

These developments indicate a significant shift in the G7 nations' approach, moving from traditional support for Israel to a more critical stance, especially concerning humanitarian issues and the pursuit of a two-state solution." While these shifts have not yet changed things they add to the pressure and made the cost of continued Israel war more costly. We should not disparage or minimize such shifts but welcome them as allies for Palestinian liberation and pressure to change Israeli policy.

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Kurvingrad's avatar

"Unfortunately, their views don't carry much weight on the global stage."

that may seem for an observer from inside of countries which would, by their own profession, "matter on the global stage". The darkness in the other side of balance of information in these countries is to the level of a black hole.

Information game has changed and they are losing the information restriction battle. In fact they lost the game already, just don't know it yet. Hence the whining as per the title of this article.

When observed from outside, it looks as a complete opposite of mainstream narratives.

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Longtrail's avatar

That's winning. I feel a paradigm shift! I'm encouraged by reports of shifting public opinion. Blind loyalty to the zionist state🇮🇱 is turning into contempt!

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Roslyn Ross's avatar

Particularly when most Americans including 66% of young American Jews not only say they support the Palestinians but that they support Hamas.

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dale ruff's avatar

That is an outright lie. "Pew Research Center (April 2024): About 34% of Americans under 30 believe Hamas has valid reasons for fighting Israel, while 30% disagree and 35% are unsure. Additionally, 58% of this age group found Hamas's October 7 attack on Israel unacceptable, compared to 86% of those aged 65 and older.

Pew Research Center

Wall Street Journal/Ipsos Poll (October 2023): Only 13% of Americans under 30 held a favorable view of Hamas, while 79% viewed the group unfavorably." Support for Palestinian rights is NOT support for Hamas.

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Roslyn Ross's avatar

No, it is not an outright lie.

One-third of Jewish-American teens say they 'sympathise' with Hamas, Israeli government poll shows

Survey shows 66 percent of Jewish teens in US say they sympathise with the Palestinian people

Published date: 22 November 2024 19:29 GMT

More than one-third of American-Jewish teenagers between the ages of 14 and 18 agree with the statement, "I sympathise with Hamas" - more than a year into Israel's war on Gaza, according to a new poll released by an Israeli government ministry.

The survey by Israel's Ministry for Diaspora Affairs and Combating Antisemitism found that 36.7 percent of American-Jewish teens either "agreed" or "strongly agreed" to the statement, "I sympathise with Hamas", Israeli media reported on Thursday.

The number contrasted sharply with the seven percent of Jewish teens living outside of the US who agreed with that statement.

An even greater percentage of American-Jewish teens, 41.3 percent, agreed with the statement that Israel was "committing genocide" in Gaza. Only 10 percent of Jewish teens living outside the US agreed with that statement.

A majority, 66 percent, said that they sympathise with the Palestinian people as a whole.

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/one-third-american-jewish-teens-say-they-sympathise-hamas-israeli-government-poll-shows

The October 2023 poll does not count because the media campaign of atrocities lies was in full swing.

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martin's avatar

we're way behind with these statements, condemnations and polls. action was necessary months ago. it is often pointed out that sanctions were quasi immediately instated when russia got involved in ukraine. politicians can drag this performative talk for decades as is demonstrated by the history of countless un-resolutions, accords and treaties. bds is a checkbox long overdue.

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Spunty's avatar

Denouncing, then doing nothing to cut ties with Israel is pointless.

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Dawn's avatar
May 1Edited

They should be anxious. Evil will never win in the end. They think they have it all figured out. Well they discount God completely and He will not be mocked.

A pox on the Zionist's and may the fleas of a thousand camels infest their crotches and may their arms be too short to scratch.

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Roslyn Ross's avatar

This might also be of comfort although sadly not just the Israelis are sucking up and breathing in the micromeal of blood, guts, shit, piss, vomit, flesh of the Palestinians.

War Dust and Collateral Inhalation: Israel Breathes in Gaza’s Dust

The Kucinich Report Graphic (The Kucinich Report)

A Forensic Study of the Self-Inflicted Consequences of Modern Warfare

By Dennis Kucinich, Reposted from The Kucinich Report, April 23, 2025

Gaza is suffering the most intense bombing, per capita, of anywhere on earth, ever.

Over 100,000 tons of bombs have been dropped on Gaza, an area slightly smaller than the City of Detroit, Michigan, resulting in the recorded deaths of at least 60,000 Gazans and injuries to hundreds of thousands.¹

It is impossible to overstate the effects of the abominable bombing war on Gazans, their lives, their families, their health, and their communities.

What has escaped attention up until now is the undeniable environmental and health effects of the bombing of Gazans on Israelis, as well as on citizens of neighboring states, and the potential harm to U.S. military personnel in the region.

A study of explosion physics based on declassified Department of Defense data, as well as blast temperature data and consequent emissions; a review of wind patterns, together with publicly available data of health effects from 9/11, as well as data gathered from U.S. veterans of the Persian Gulf War, yields a shocking conclusion.

Israel, in executing the unprecedented bombing attack on Gaza, is, in effect, bombing itself, with grave consequences for the public health of its people.² What is being visited upon Gaza does not stay in Gaza.

The sustained bombing of Gaza pulverizes stone, heavy metals, and the human body. The vaporizing of human beings under extreme heat and pressure combines with dust, water vapor, and metallic particles the size of microns, all blasted upwards, aerosolized, wind-driven across borders, into Israel and surrounding countries.³

The unlimited bombing of Gaza has created an unparalleled ecological and biomedical feedback loop. Israel exhales death in Gaza and inhales the Gaza it has vaporized.

Israel, in bombing neighboring Gaza, is breathing in its own fallout, along with the vaporized remains of its declared enemies. The external consequences of violence become internalized. The substance of the oppressed communes with the oppressor.

On a clinical level, breathing in bioaerosols can compromise human immune systems.⁴ Breathing in ultrafine particles from non-biological war dust can cross the blood-brain barrier and contribute to neurodegenerative disease.⁵

Israel and the Palestinians share a common atmosphere. They inhale the same war dust from bomb materials, carbon soot, and the fine particle remains of vaporized Gazans.

Human cremation occurs at temperatures between 1,400°F and 1,800°F.⁶ The blast temperatures of the bombs identified as being dropped on Gaza—MK-84 bombs: 4,496°F; GBU-39s: 4,892°F; BLU-109s: 3,632°F—far exceed this range.⁷ In comparison, blast furnaces used to melt steel operate at 2,500°F to 2,800°F.⁸

People at the epicenter of such bombings in Gaza are instantly turned into dust. This is a factor confounding the determination of exactly how many people have perished in Gaza since October 2023. How can an accurate body count be achieved if bodies have been turned to smoke and ash?

When a bomb hits its target—for example, a tent city—the high-temperature explosion can vaporize a person so thoroughly that microscopic particles of DNA and loose molecules are suspended in air, mingling with dust and smoke as bioaerosols.¹⁰

These biologicals—DNA and fat in human tissue—turn to carbon, black dust, and smoke. The minerals of bones and teeth, skeletal dust, go airborne. Fragments of cells can float in the air, bubbles holding fat, bone, and broken DNA strands travel with the wind, and are breathed in dozens of miles from the blast site.¹¹

It is not only the superheat that destroys the human body. The explosive force of a bomb, in terms of pounds per square inch (psi), can produce vaporization at the blast site, an impact equivalent to a plane plunging into the earth at high speed.¹²

As 100,000 tons of bombs have been dropped in Gaza, the matter destroyed takes a different form, as toxic pollutants are carried aloft in gas, dust, vapor, and particulates.

Specifically, toxic quantities of cadmium, nickel, lead, mercury, and arsenic are released into the air, together with dioxins, furans, PCBs (polychlorinated biphenyls), PAHs (polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons), and VOCs (volatile organic compounds).¹³

One calculation indicates that 100,000 tons of bombs exploded in a densely populated area of Gaza can generate between 800,000 to 1.2 million tons of pollution.¹

Add to this the dust of Gazans’ human remains, and you have extreme airborne consequences carried by the wind, directly into Israel, particularly the central and northern regions, and far beyond.

The people of Sderot, Netivot, Be’er Sheva—all within a short distance of Gaza—are at high risk of long-term health effects of the bombing. Ashkelon and Tel Aviv have been exposed to environmental consequences, as has northern Israel and even Jordan.

While Israel’s Ministry of Environmental Protection operates air-monitoring stations at sites proximate to Gaza, it would be instructive, given the intensity of the bombing, to see if the effects of war-related pollution are being fully disclosed to the Israeli public.¹⁷

Given the unprecedented levels of bombing in Gaza, the types of bombs used, their explosive power, the extent of physical destruction, the extraordinary number of casualties, the creation of large plumes of black smoke containing the genetic material of burned and vaporized Gazans, the people of Israel—on the other side of the Gaza boundary—will likely experience increased levels of respiratory illness, asthma-like and other pulmonary diseases, and a sharp increase in cancer as a direct result of being exposed to toxic airborne substances present at a microscopic level.¹⁸

Added to this direct hazard is the ongoing recirculation of wind across the vast hellscape to which Gaza has been reduced. That, too, will sweep up and redistribute the contaminants from the over 50 million tons of debris from Gaza to Israel.

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Vin LoPresti's avatar

Yes, thanks for posting all these details. I posted a short version of this couple days ago -- the completely appropriate irony that the aerosolized remains of their victims will hopefully destroy the neurology and immunology of their murderers. Oh how I hope for this outcome.

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Dawn's avatar

Holy cow! Those are some devastating facts there. I had no idea and didn't really consider the physics in all the bombing.

How horrible is all that? Almost beyond comprehension that humans visit this annihilation on other humans. It makes my heart hurt to read this.

Certainly does not resemble the peacemakers that Jesus told us would be blessed.

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Carrie Deitzel's avatar

Seems like poetic justice to me. If Israeli’s read this information, I hope every breath makes them gag

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The Revolution Continues's avatar

What a vivid picture! I like it! Long live the fleas on the crotches of the zy0nists!

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W.F.Miloglav's avatar

New pandemic affecting Zionists only: Narrative Control Loss Derangement Syndrome.

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Vin LoPresti's avatar

I'd hope it would be based upon a biologically describable swiss-cheese maggot-brain syndrome in which the physical impacts of aerosolized human remains and rubble described by Roslyn Ross in her comment above would actually manifest as massive loss of brain neurons, turning the Zionists into blubbering out-of-control idiots who then wander around the streets of Tel Aviv MURDERING ONE ANOTHER.

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W.F.Miloglav's avatar

Devoutly to be wished. As for your last part, already partly true, isn't it: they're already out-of-control blubbering idiots, pretty much.

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Vin LoPresti's avatar

Hell yes.

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JC Denton's avatar

The turn around in opinion on this is a testament to how powerful free discourse is.

I cannot emphasize enough how important and unbelievable it is that a majority of Republicans under age 50 now have a negative opinion of Israel. This would have been completely unthinkable just a few short years ago.

It's happened because of free discourse. All the while all their media was telling them the opposite. Almost all of their leaders.

The Dave Smith/Douglas Murray "debate" on JRE was a great example of this process, and this divide on the right. Murray was humiliated publicly, he humiliated himself. Tens of millions saw this.

This process will continue, and it is absolutely the death knell of Zionism.

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denise ward's avatar

It is of the utmost importance that we uphold free speech. Free speech is all the people have that don't own the media, that don't have a voice any other way. To uphold free speech that means that we must not engage in blocking, banning or censoring others because that shows consent to censorship. If we do it to each other, it will be done on the world stage. As below, so above. That is the way it actually goes.

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JC Denton's avatar

Unfortunately it's one of those things which can be hard to stay consistent on when the shoe is on the other foot, much like freedom of assembly/protest rights, I've noticed.

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denise ward's avatar

I don't understand why it's hard to stay consistent on upholding free speech. Could you elaborate?

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JC Denton's avatar

When someone you oppose is saying something you really oppose, it can be hard to stay calm and principled. This seems to be a problem for a lot of people.

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gypsy33's avatar

JC:

He who is not angry when there is just cause for anger is IMMORAL.

Why?

Because anger looks to the good of justice.

And if you can live amid injustice without anger, you are IMMORAL as well as UNJUST.

Thomas Aquinas

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JC Denton's avatar

You can be angry, but you shouldn't let your anger control you. You should control it.

I am always extremely suspicious when I get that feeling of insecure anger while... talking to people about politics. Usually it's a sign of cognitive dissonance; your subconscious knows you believe contradictory things. It's a sign you might need to examine some of your beliefs.

Good news is it's a good sign post. It means you can figure some things out if you so choose. For this reason I try to welcome it.

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Vin LoPresti's avatar

I sincerely hope you are prophetic

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JC Denton's avatar

No need for prophesies, just extrapolation:

https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/20/2025/04/SR_25.04.08_us-views-of-israel_4.png?resize=420,316

This process will continue, at least for anyone who doesn't just slavishly worship the legacy media. Anyone with even a little bit of exposure to the sunlight of free discourse will come around. The truth has a habit of doing that when it's not suppressed.

One thing I would strongly encourage is cross-politics solidarity. The elites try to divide and conquer to pit us against each other. Not so much solidarity, but just the basics: talking to each other, not always assuming the worst, etc.

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Vin LoPresti's avatar

I think it's ok to use the word solidarity in the context you imply -- in resisting fragmentation by elites who have no one's interest in mind but their own.

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Robert H Stiver's avatar

"Israel’s backers have been whining about losing control of the narrative for months." Yeah -- and FOR DECADES I've seen these unparalleled effing Colonial Zionists exploit every opportunity to exploit an opportunity, cleverly using opportunism, disinformation, lying, etc., etc., TAKING CONTROL OF THE NARRATIVE IN THEIR DEMENTED, BERSERK WAYS AND MANNERS. The dumbed-down US public-plus-craven-politicians-plus-media play "the narrative" like the proverbial fiddle. Maybe next time ... insha'Allah.

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Sam's avatar

Blinken: “ And you have a social media ecosystem environment in which context, history, facts get lost, and the emotion, the impact of images dominates. And we can’t — we can’t discount that, but I think it also has a very, very, very challenging effect on the narrative.”

Facts like that Israel has been trying to ethically cleanse Palestine since 1948? Those facts, Antony?

Notice how non of the pro Israel folks ever admit that Israel isn’t the victim here. America and its allies have been waging war against the Arab and Muslim people, but that’s always left out of the discussion.

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Rosalind Dalefield's avatar

I suppose he meant emotions like compassion, and a sense of natural justice? Of course he would disparage those.

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The Revolution Continues's avatar

It's about time we scared those Israel supporters shitless! All their gaslighting that they're not committing a live-streamed genocide will be their downfall. I can't wait for it to happen, too. The narrative belongs to those who still have a conscience, not the liars. Keep sharing the moral narrative that genocide is NEVER justified and its perpetrators should be punished. #FreePalestine

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Longtrail's avatar

I told ya! We're winning! We've poked holes in the Narrative and the zionists🇮🇱 know it. The more "In-your-face" they are getting shows their desperation. The bullshit "Anti-Anitsemitism Campaign" is backfiring because of the increased and increasing resistance.

From a war perspective, although the Palestinians🇵🇸 are suffering horrific casualties, they're winning. Miss Lindsey said it herself as she whines about losing control of the narrative. The sight of their suffering is on all media morning, moon and night has had an effect. Public opinion has swung hard against the zionist state🇮🇱 Good, FUKEM🇮🇱!

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gypsy33's avatar

👍👍👍

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Nizar Ibrahim's avatar

Zionist Jews finally admit they control the world…but are still losing. Some question of it is because of rampant Jew hatred. Others point out however, it’s because of the live stream genocide Zionist Jews are committing. Anti-Zionist Jews will soon outnumber the Zionists by vast margins because the genocidal handiwork of evil apartheid Israel that is witnessed across the world including by non-Zionist and anti Zionist Jews. Much of the evidence for genocide is provided by the arrogant perpetrators themselves.

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denise ward's avatar

With all the advantages on their side, all the voice on their side, the truth still comes out and is more powerful than lies.

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Spunty's avatar

Most Zionists in the USA are (supposedly) Christian.

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Antizionistic's avatar

Masks keep falling...

"Under Cutler’s own guidelines, the prior comments from her fellow attendee would have been banned if he had said them on Facebook instead of at the Jewish News Syndicate International Policy Summit."

Let me guess, he's still of Facebook. Deluded geezer didn't realize he should have censored himself rather than say what his audience already believes in.

Let them think they're still masters of the universe. Hopefully many of them will see their kids and grandkids publicly disavow Zionism and work against it. May their family become thorns in their sides for the rest of their miserable existence.

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Spercepolnes's avatar

"We’ve got to get our digital sneakers on, so that the truth can prevail over the lies." ....

Aaaah - I think that's their problem - the truth IS right in front of everyone's eyes .... on "their" platforms. They lie so much, they don't actually know what truth is any more!

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martin's avatar

'getting their digital sneakers on' is another faulty narrative. they've been at it for years on all platforms. as stated, empire owns the internet. even on tiktok the manipulation and censorship is massive.

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Amal Hayati's avatar

It feels like a small little sliver of a silver lining from the big picture in the arc of our collective evolution. Yet after watching this genocide day in and day out for 19 months, I'm too numb and callous to feel happy or optimistic about it.

We can only pray that the next generations continue to become smarter, stronger, more unified, more organized than we have been.

Despite all the effort, all out shouting and screaming, all our actions, all our prayers, and everything we have done, we still haven't been able to stop this nightmare.

Just want to wake up from this horrific dream already...

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GS-z-14-1's avatar

Roman senator, statesman and orator Cato the Elder [also called Cato the Censor] for many years famously ended speeches saying [in translation], ‘Carthage must be destroyed.’

This exemplifies the nature the struggle to end the genocide in Gaza wants to take. We can end conversations, posts and other interactions with ‘war criminals must be prosecuted!’

Cato refused to let this die. He kept this in political consciousness and debate. It became a symbol of an unwavering stance that did lead to the complete destruction of Carthage in the Third Punic War [149 - 146 BCE]. It also defined and declared the final form that the problem of Rome’s rival would take.

I suggest taking a lesson from Cato’s playbook.

And remember — Gaza’s war criminal assailants must be prosecuted!

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Joy in HK fiFP's avatar

Or we can just Kneecap them with fiFP!!

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