I have been horrified at the number of commenters across platforms salivating at the idea of decimating iran. My stomach turns. Why would you want to kill so many people? *people*
It's nothing new in the USA. At all. I remember as a kid in the back seat of my mom's station wagon with a friend of her's in the passenger seat and her kids with us in the back, and the song "Bomb Iran" came on the radio. Sung to the tune of the Beach Boys' "Barbara Anne" - Bomb bomb bomb...bomb bomb Iran...
It was 1982, and Ronny Raygun's October Surprise already had him ensconced comfortably in office. The hostages had come home long ago. Iran wasn't making any threatening noises. But the Americans really, really hated them just like they do today.
I remember that same parody of that song and it disgusted me. I don’t know what’s wrong with some of the people in my country, but when one lives in a country that has never had one single bomb dropped on it I guess this kind of stupidity can be expected. I had to listen to the same propaganda bull shit about Russia, at the time the Soviet Union, and I got so sick of it. Still hear it today.
The Reagan people worked behind the scenes with Iran to delay the release of the hostages until after the election. This killed Jimmy Carter. Iran Contra followed that deal. Reagan's people were traitors.
Hence, the on-going shenanigans that elevated Reagan. Jimmy was up all night following the hostages' plight. Things went downhill after Reagan was elected. For one, no affordable housing was built. Still, to this day. The past catches up with us, eventually, belatedly.
Its a tragic shame that I remember similar sentiments from my childhood and I am younger than you. The fact that we can't recognize the inhumanity of it doesn't bode well...
If you were alive in the 80s, 90s or 2000s and live in the USA and didn't hear the phony Barbara Ann song, I guess you must've been living under a rock.
Regardless, I trust the Iranians and Iranian women to handle their civilization on their own WITHOUT US interference or Israeli military provocations/assassinations.
It's liberal "humanitarian" interventionist blabber to talk about Iranian women being killed (it's happened ONCE and it was an ACCIDENT) as though we don't have OUR OWN issues to deal with, and it's of a piece with all the saber rattling and warmongering to try to force our attention to Iranian societal issues as though they are our concern, let alone cause for economic (sanctions) or military warfare waged in our name against the Iranians.
I was born in the 60s and live in the USA and didn't hear the phony Barbara Ann song, maybe I just had different tastes in music. I must've been living under a rock.
But did the majority of US citizens actually think that way, in Edwards Bernays book Crystallizing Public Opinion he made it clear that opinion polling is used to set public opinion not measure it. Are we certain the majority of people in the US are rabid war mongers who want to kill lots of other people or could it possibly be that the media and government have sold that narrative for years to convince us to go along with the in-group preference of hating iran ?
I never heard that song played anywhere outside political events, I don't remember it being played on the radio at all. I remember the original version Barbara Ann - Weird Al made a bomb iraq parody
" Why would you want to kill so many people? *people*"
It makes sense when you realize that you are listening to reptilians speak; ask them to kill other reptilians instead and you would get the expected reaction :P...
"A hard blow to the head" - the problem is neither Iran nor Russia can do it without triggering the all out nuclear. Does it mean they shouldn't do anything at all? Just sit down and take it?
What they do is continue advancing the offer to stop. When nothing is left to offer anymore and they get resigned to the ultimate destruction - hopefully it'll be clear to absolutely everybody. In essence, every single functioning human will know where they're at.
For now, most of the world just keeps going without a care.
Eventually, America is going to have to stop acting childishly when it comes to Iran. There is no reason to be constantly plotting regime change. The JCPOA was one of two things that Obama's administration did well, the Cuba policy being the other one. Alas, in this republic, wise ideas are dismantled by the next administration, if it even takes that long.
Absolutely not. That sounds *exactly* like the hate propaganda that came from the other side thats brought this mess to a head. We don't have to rely on moral arguments and we don't have to deny palestines right to self defense but what we need to not do is start with the "the bigger meaner one is the right one" stufff.
Yeah, sorry, pedantic word play aside we all need to push back on the idea of solutions so violent and destructive that they most certainly would take innocent people out in order to have some sore of final and complete win, especially with the concept against "the bad guys" which encroaches far beyond the actual attackers and most certainly across lay populations and children.
Advocating final solutions (or hits so big the bully can't get back up again, the bully being a group of people, pound the bully into the ground so it learns to stop) against a villainized population as opposed to functional solutions to stop harmful/violent actors, restrained to the extent possible to achieve this goal, always need to be stopped where it starts.
Its how we got here and its not how we're going to get out.
I spent only a short time in Iran two decades ago but it was a highlight of my life. My wife was mobbed by young excited girls (at talking to a westerner) “you don’t think we are all terrorists do you?” and they knew so much about my country. I know there have been changes but most Iranians just want to be Persian again. I understand that MI6 and the CIA almost called off Operation Ajax. I believe Iran would be a very different place if they had. Let’s not forget real people live in Iran.
I travelled through Iran in 1973. A beautiful country with beautiful people. The only negative was the universal fear of the secret police, courtesy of the dictatorial Shah (brought to power in 1954 through US orchestrated coup).
Yes. My experience exactly. And when the people looked to help in the Revolution look what they got. Iran had an important role in the world. Sanctions had such a debilitating and isolating effect.
John, yes. I travelled through Iran twice in 1972, to and from India and Nepal in the Hippie years. Many young Irani approached me, out of desperation because of the Shah, who was put into power by the UK and the USA. One student brought me to his home and I stayed overnight. His mother cooked for us. All the Irani people I've ever met have been fine, honorable, and friendly people. Civilized. Not like the vast majority of the Jews I know. Jews just don't get it, and more of the world is figuring that out. It's the tribal mindset that leads them astray. They regard their Jewishness as more important than their humanity.
And even now it's completely, almost 180 degrees from what our talking heads and government lunatics imply, to say nothing of the Zionist filth that blankets our airwaves, cable broadcasts and media.
"Women, Life, Freedom" always came across to me like CIA sloganeering. The western intelligence agencies have had a continued presence in Iran for decades and foment color revolutions everywhere they go. Why would Iranians chant in English if their message is not targeted at a western audience ? Why target a message about Iranian freedom towards a western audience ?
One woman died. And it was an accident, outlier situation.
So why are you so concerned about it? More American women die in a single hour due to not having access to decent prenatal healthcare or abortions than have died in total in Iran since the hair covering "scandal" was forced into our news feeds.
I am always concerned when people pit women's rights in different countries against each other or somehow run over activists seeking women's rights.
We can be upset about women's treatment in the US AND IRAN. We can see Iranians as human deserving good life AND having extremely problematic views and practices regarding women. We can see Iran as having extremely problematic views and practices regarding women AND acknowledge the US does as well. We can also let women in Iran lead us in what they want and need, acknowledging that there is misogyny that will convince some women to uphold the system and that is the SAME in the US, so no we should not downplay women's treatment around the world in any country because it feels safer for our narrative.
I want people using political dog whistles to stop pitting women and the rights of women in the world against each other in order to create craggy definition in their chosen villains and erase perceived villainy in their chosen child.
"One woman died, its an outlier", like sir, thats pretty outrageous for you to put down her life and what happened to her because you're trying to defend against a problematic narrative. And worse trying to pit women suffering in American prisons against women suffering in Iran.
We all want freedom, self determination, dignity; stop running interference. You don't have to sacrifice that for women in order to push back on imperialist narratives
Since I don't know what country you are writing from, I can't really comment on your sentiments. But since I'm in the USA, I absolutely disapprove of any "women's rights" organizations based in the USA doing any of the following:
1) Moralizing to me about women's rights in a foreign country, particularly countries on the US government's official or unofficial "shit list" - Iran, Venezuela, Nicaragua, China, Cuba, Russia, etc. when the US is busy strangling or sanctioning those places and has a history of sending in CIA/NED/USAID (all the same frankly) affiliated NGOs pushing color revolutions/regime change/dissent under the auspices of promoting "women's rights" or "democracy" or "human rights" - and - when the US and/or any American women's rights organizations have no ability to do that in other places like Saudi Arabia, various African countries, etc. where they are US client states, purchasing US military hardware, suppressing human rights, and the like.
Because it always seems like it's the "women's rights" in one of the targeted countries we hear the most about.
2) Moralizing to me about the state of women's rights in any of those places while at the same time incarcerating more women than any other nation on Earth, where abortion is de facto illegal in 75% of the country, and where women's healthcare and mortality rates lag far behind many countries, including sanctioned ones like Cuba and probably even Iran.
If anyone is "running interference" it's the western/Oceania state-affiliated (whether they realize it, admit it or not) liberals who can't or won't recognize that imperialism will only change from within (barring a massive military or economic defeat abroad) and until we have a just, equitable society with "freedom" and self-determination at home, any supposed women's (or other) rights promoting activities abroad - unless they are completely un/disaffiliated with the imperial state - are merely window dressing for more imperial bullshit.
I mean, can you think of a single women's rights organization based in the US, EU, Australia, Canada whose mission it is to promote women's rights in OTHER countries that can claim to be free from imperialist motives/capitalist influence?
Yeah, that might stand if you haven't literally dismissed "one woman's death" as an outlier. which in and of itself is outrageous but puts down every single woman fighting for what they need in Iran and the efforts they have gone through. Efforts that *they* guide. Your US-based outrage on their behalf and subsequent erasure to push back on US-based outrage is shaped by the imperialist country you're from. (And for full disclosure I'm from the US too). You can call those things out without doing the exact framework it blooms from.
It very much comes across as you don't really care about that population you're just using it for your agenda on that population.
We can do both.
If you want to push back on that one sided narrative you can and I applaud that. I just strongly recommend you don't do it as the mirror behavior of what you think you're fighting because you're doing neither population a justice on their behalf.
On a flight to Ireland, I sat next to an Iranian gentleman who was going home to visit his mother. It’s too bad that Amerikkkan men can’t be as lovely as this sweet man was.
I found that. There are of course unsavoury and criminal people in all countries but the genuine respect toward my wife was noticeable. When I was there 80% of students in university were women. I attended the National Symphony Orchestra with a significant female participation. I really hope they can ditch the rule of the hardliners without suffering,
I am truly sorry for the USA and UK who have sunk to such moral lows I could never in my worst nightmares imagined this is where we would end up. Neither would I have contemplated leaving the country of my birth (UK) but I have made the decision to do just that. This is no knee jerk reaction but the unequivocal support of Israel and blatant bias shown has been the final straw.
There is nothing new in terms of moral lows. The only difference is that the mask is off. The USA, UK and Israel are no longer trying so hard to hide their imperialist, colonialist, late capitalist depredations.
They do. But morality means something to me and to many of us, or we wouldn't bother. I have no religion, but my morality, my ethics, how I treat others and how I live, matters greatly. Ultimately it's how one achieves happiness.
"1953 Iranian coup d'état: The United States Central Intelligence Agency and the UK were involved in overthrowing the government of Mohammad Mosaddegh in Iran, so as to retain power for Shah Mohammad Reza Pahlavi."
Evil r us.....we don't give one fuck about "democracy"....and never have.
"To see Iran’s response as “disproportionate” is to admit you believe Israeli lives are worth literally orders of magnitude more than Iranian lives."
This also explains why to Zionists the loss of 33K+ (perhaps 100K) Palestinian lives in the six months of bombing Gaza aren't worth sh*t when compared to Israeli lives. Remember, in "Isreality" (Israeli Reality) only what the Israelis think and believe counts. Nobody else matters and anything they may do to protect themselves from Israeli aggression isn't justified and totally unprovoked. Yeah, it's crazy, but it makes complete sense to abusive narcissists.
Yeh, but I'm sure not for long. Although many people called him, like I did, and had something to say about his war mongering ways and was totally disgusted by it.
I think he's laying low, and no doubt told to do so since Washington, like Caitlin said, is behaving like they are trying to avoid war at all costs and definitely do not want a regional war. Which I also think is definitely not true. .
I agree with you on this. I think America will be in another war. 😞😢 This one could really be the "war to end all wars" (and life/world as we know it).
Simplicius has a good analysis of the Iranian retaliatory strikes on Israeli military bases. It looks like all or most of the Iranian ballistic missiles got through the Iron Dome and US/UK additional defenses, though most cheap drones and cruise missiles got taken out by expensive and limited-supply air defense missiles. https://simplicius76.substack.com/p/iran-breaches-anglo-zionist-defenses
Thanks for that link - vey important analysis - the only thing I urged caution on was how S characterized the Biden/US response. WH sources are saying Biden call to BiBi US would NOT militarily support attacks on Iran. Biden himself has pledged US support to the defense of Israel.
But the US has defined "defense" to include just about anything.
“They have plundered the world, stripping naked the land in their hunger… they are driven by greed, if their enemy be rich; by ambition, if poor… They ravage, they slaughter, they seize by false pretenses, and all of this they hail as the construction of empire. And when in their wake nothing remains but a desert, they call that peace.”
The sociopaths who rule over us are unimpressed with our clever word games, our tightly reasoned arguments and close readings of texts. They are unmoved by facts, evidence, logic or morality, as long as they have force on their side, as long as the police and army will shoot when ordered to do so.
Mass media in the U.S implies mass indoctrination. When the owners of the planet dictate what the masses will hear, the propaganda machine relentlessly displays how easy it is to manipulate minds. When Big Daddy says: 'The sky is green', anyone who opposes the brainwashed are instructed to visit an optical shop and buy eyeglasses with shades of green.
The fact that nuclear Armageddon has not yet come home to roost is the surest sign that Lady Luck may have as much patience as God... but after the sixth day, even God went home.
Why is there even existence in the first place? Why is there anything at all?? Seems pretty impossible to me in the first place. But what do I know ...
Descartes asked the same question 400 years ago... but " I think, therefore I am" fell short of the existence debate. Your questions are probably unanswerable. To exist, time must exist, but how does it exist if we were alive a few seconds ago, are alive now, and will be alive a few second from now. No one knows what life is, even though it exists all around us. Same for time, space,... we probably know less about anything than dodo birds knew how to read the bible. If anyone can answer your questions, I'm all ears. lol
Our fearless leader, Trudeau, said yet again that "Israel has the right to defend itself". And others repeated after him. As if they were making vows to each other. Is there some kind of virus affecting world leaders so that they can no longer think in a straight line (that is saying that they ever did). Israel or the US or Germany or the UK are morally superior to who? Are they competing with each other to see who can destroy the earth the fastest? To see who can cause the most children to die? To see who can destroy the most infrastructure belonging to "human animals" the fastest. Biden or Trump; take your choice of which one you want to create more chaos and danger. And I don't see many choices that are good for the people anywhere else either.
Repeat any of that shit enough times, and a lot of very gullible or busy people believe it. Start in during childhood and most of 'em will act like the guy in "The Matrix" whose brain hurt so bad from reality that he chose to plug back in and enjoy a nice juicy steak.
Exactly. LOL. Do you know who Abby Martin is? She's great. I'm really surprised Piers Morgan and a few other mainstream commentators even invite her onto their show. When she was asked that question she totally ignored it, and then when pressed on it she said "No, and here's why..."
I choose to go with People, Planet and Peace. #VoteGreen for jillstein2024.com Dr. Stein would put an end to the MIC and the endless wars that are murdering millions and destroying our environment.
To be fair, if Jill Stein were to become president today, she'd find herself unable to accomplish anything, blocked at every stage by people in an out of government.
Maybe. But it would probably not be only her making the decisions. I have seen people who had great ideas get railroaded into doing what the moneygrubbers want. What is the MIC?
The Military-Industrial Complex. US Greens do not take any corporate money or PAC money (Political Action Committees--groups of rich people/corporations' money). Dr. Stein has spoken at length about shutting down the war machine/MIC, disarming the nuclear arsenal, and putting our tax dollars to use in building up the people, not trying to explode the planet.
I don't live in the US. I would vote for her if I did, but I still am not sure that one person or even one party can really change things all that drastically. We need another system. One that can escape the threats and intimidation of AIPAC and other money grubbers.
You're right. We need a Revolution. I see wiping the duopolists (Democrats and Republicans) off the map as a much needed first step. Take the money out of politics in the US and regulate the billionaires and tax them until their pips squeak goes along with that first step, too.
What sort of a revolution is it that would leave the Rothschilds in control of the global money supply? They and their usurious money system are most definitively the fundamental problem.
When I lived and worked in Denmark a long time ago, a huge part of my salary went to taxes. But dental, medical, daycare and more were paid for. They had a system of taxation where the more money you earned, the more your taxes went up until it didn't make sense to earn any more money because most of it would be taxed. There is a name for that system, but I can't remember it. Unfortunately, I think they may have changed that system. Denmark has been sadly influenced by the US. I realized that the shit had hit the fan a long time back when I saw cops beating up protesters at a gathering of politicians regarding the climate. When I lived there, I got kicked out of a park for picking the flowers. I was also drinking wine, but that was not the problem. It was picking the flowers that really got him riled up.
"Is there some kind of virus affecting world leaders so that they can no longer think in a straight line"
I can only chalk it up to some kind of unknown, weird virus that scientists have not yet figured out. Hopefully soon, because things ain't looking good - at least from my end here in Idaho.
Greed, unaccountable stupidity (incl. failing ever upward in the corrupt system), and being totally out of touch with the people they ostensibly govern are all worse than any virus.
"Of course there are going to be populations who refuse to be subjugated," and rightly so.
The real danger is the damage that has been done already. You can't go through what we have seen lately by Israel and its grovelling acolyte, America, without wanting to see some kind of solution that is able to satisfy Palestinians, the victims of these months of criminal activities.
That should also mean penalties for the two criminal countries involved, Israel and the USA.
How does that happen. What international organisation has the authority to institute, or better still, demand that a resolution is put in place immediately? The ICJ has proven itself to be a synthetic powder puff organisational, looking so very serious but in too many cases, the Judges are totally influenced by the governments in their own countries. Therefore , just another United Nations.
Now that organisations, the UN, should be the controllers of such decisions but it also is totally dependent on threats to withhold funding, and of course, the number one weapon called the US VETO.
So once again, it is totally politicised.
Over time we have seen people like the devious Israelis who conjur up all sorts of support mechanisms to influence the UN vote. Tourism being one; exports being another. If you are cunning enough in dealing with an Island with a very small population but with a vote in the General Assembly, it is an easy task to bribe them in many different ways as has been the case by Israel seeking support from all and sundry. Bribery and corruption after all, is the predominant Israeli weapon of choice. The USA on the other hand use threats, economic bullying, and sanctions as their weapons of choice. Standard practice for 70 years.
The winner under those circumstances is the bully boy with the largest stockpile of weaponry, these days meaning nuclear warheads. What a world we have become.
From what I hear: It seems that Russia is way ahead of the Us in its weapons which is why I believe the USA will only attack smaller territories as it becomes the end for Colonial US.
Well articulated. The creation of the state of Israel in the UN was done through bribery and threat. It has and continues to practise the same tactics, aided and abetted by the Brits and Americans till this day. The question that one has to ask is why would those western powers do that? What’s the motive? The only one that I can think of and that makes sense is the white supremacist colonial mindset where one race is superior and in control of another. Forget all the universal human rights, equality, peace schtick. It’s white supremacists all the way down..
Although there is no oil in Palestine (as of yet) but it might have been good sense for a western implant in the form of Israel to exist in that oil and resource rich region, which was a critical post for the British empire. Bear in mind that the Brits did strike ‘deals’ with the rulers of the region to exploit its natural resources but the aim was to always introduce a foreign body in its midst in the spirit of divide and conquer. Also bearing in mind that the Brits were not that keen on granting the Jews their own nation (it’s not like antisemitism originated anywhere but Europe..) but it was only thanks to the Zionist factions of the British government at the time that a Zionist state was able to get off the ground.. that and the terrorist tactics that the Zionists used against the British colonialists and native Palestinians to get their way. The Holocaust was the perfect opportunity for the Zionists to harness the power of guilt + knowing and appealing to the colonialist mind to get their way. That structure has been maintained for decades through inertia (‘Israel’s right to exist’ has become a fact, an adage, something you can never question or interrogate.. even though it is just as worthy of analysis as anything else under the sun)).
This has become the status quo and to dislodge it would require an act of extremism. I believe that is what Hamas wanted to achieve with 7 Oct.
The only true justice would be for Israelis to back to where they or their parents came from and give all the land back to the Palestinians. A girl can dream.
Well, the entire west is a Zionist entity when it comes to middle eastern politics (I prefer to call the region west Asia but whatever..) so there’s that.. and the reason the west is Zionist is not because they love the Jews in particular.. they love the Zionist ideology that was born from the supremacist imperialist mind in Europe. If Hitler and Satan got together and had a child, it would be Zionist Israel..
I have been horrified at the number of commenters across platforms salivating at the idea of decimating iran. My stomach turns. Why would you want to kill so many people? *people*
It's nothing new in the USA. At all. I remember as a kid in the back seat of my mom's station wagon with a friend of her's in the passenger seat and her kids with us in the back, and the song "Bomb Iran" came on the radio. Sung to the tune of the Beach Boys' "Barbara Anne" - Bomb bomb bomb...bomb bomb Iran...
It was 1982, and Ronny Raygun's October Surprise already had him ensconced comfortably in office. The hostages had come home long ago. Iran wasn't making any threatening noises. But the Americans really, really hated them just like they do today.
Some things never change.
I remember that same parody of that song and it disgusted me. I don’t know what’s wrong with some of the people in my country, but when one lives in a country that has never had one single bomb dropped on it I guess this kind of stupidity can be expected. I had to listen to the same propaganda bull shit about Russia, at the time the Soviet Union, and I got so sick of it. Still hear it today.
Nothing to add. Completely agree.
The Reagan people worked behind the scenes with Iran to delay the release of the hostages until after the election. This killed Jimmy Carter. Iran Contra followed that deal. Reagan's people were traitors.
Uh, yeah. Hence my use of the term "October Surprise."
Hence, the on-going shenanigans that elevated Reagan. Jimmy was up all night following the hostages' plight. Things went downhill after Reagan was elected. For one, no affordable housing was built. Still, to this day. The past catches up with us, eventually, belatedly.
Its a tragic shame that I remember similar sentiments from my childhood and I am younger than you. The fact that we can't recognize the inhumanity of it doesn't bode well...
I never heard that song. The worst they are doing today is killing women who dare to bare their hair.
You never heard the Beach Boys? You're a dumbass.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgEqlOFs56Q
I never heard the parody duh. Why the rudeness. Here I thought your comments make sense.
If you were alive in the 80s, 90s or 2000s and live in the USA and didn't hear the phony Barbara Ann song, I guess you must've been living under a rock.
Regardless, I trust the Iranians and Iranian women to handle their civilization on their own WITHOUT US interference or Israeli military provocations/assassinations.
It's liberal "humanitarian" interventionist blabber to talk about Iranian women being killed (it's happened ONCE and it was an ACCIDENT) as though we don't have OUR OWN issues to deal with, and it's of a piece with all the saber rattling and warmongering to try to force our attention to Iranian societal issues as though they are our concern, let alone cause for economic (sanctions) or military warfare waged in our name against the Iranians.
Gets fucking old fast. .
All that rudeness is totally unnecessary.🤔
I was born in the 60s and live in the USA and didn't hear the phony Barbara Ann song, maybe I just had different tastes in music. I must've been living under a rock.
You’ve no fucking idea what yer talkin’ about.
But did the majority of US citizens actually think that way, in Edwards Bernays book Crystallizing Public Opinion he made it clear that opinion polling is used to set public opinion not measure it. Are we certain the majority of people in the US are rabid war mongers who want to kill lots of other people or could it possibly be that the media and government have sold that narrative for years to convince us to go along with the in-group preference of hating iran ?
Everyone was sure happy to sing along. And it came on the radio like 5X a day. Do you remember that time period?
I never heard that song played anywhere outside political events, I don't remember it being played on the radio at all. I remember the original version Barbara Ann - Weird Al made a bomb iraq parody
" Why would you want to kill so many people? *people*"
It makes sense when you realize that you are listening to reptilians speak; ask them to kill other reptilians instead and you would get the expected reaction :P...
War and death and murder make the news, bring in the people, money. That's what they care about.
Because Empire. Because they can.
Iran's attack was a dud. Let's face it. And a weak response only encourages the sociopaths in Jerusalem, Washington and Bruseels.
A hard blow to the head, followed up by more hard blows until the opponent is dead is the language that they understand.
"A hard blow to the head" - the problem is neither Iran nor Russia can do it without triggering the all out nuclear. Does it mean they shouldn't do anything at all? Just sit down and take it?
What they do is continue advancing the offer to stop. When nothing is left to offer anymore and they get resigned to the ultimate destruction - hopefully it'll be clear to absolutely everybody. In essence, every single functioning human will know where they're at.
For now, most of the world just keeps going without a care.
Eventually, America is going to have to stop acting childishly when it comes to Iran. There is no reason to be constantly plotting regime change. The JCPOA was one of two things that Obama's administration did well, the Cuba policy being the other one. Alas, in this republic, wise ideas are dismantled by the next administration, if it even takes that long.
It won't matter who pushes The Button or why.
Yep. War doesn't determine who's right, only who's left.
These slogans are snappy but do they mean anything in practical terms?
Feral, it wasn’t a dud. It was a purposely measured response.
I've heard the arguments and am unconvinced.
Now you sound like the sociopaths you reference. Again. We are talking about nations of people.
Because no other language works on such humans. I don't have to like it, but this is the language of power.
I'd be glad if moral arguments were more effective. But it's like quoting Scripture to an armed robber.
Absolutely not. That sounds *exactly* like the hate propaganda that came from the other side thats brought this mess to a head. We don't have to rely on moral arguments and we don't have to deny palestines right to self defense but what we need to not do is start with the "the bigger meaner one is the right one" stufff.
I said nothing about right.
Yeah, sorry, pedantic word play aside we all need to push back on the idea of solutions so violent and destructive that they most certainly would take innocent people out in order to have some sore of final and complete win, especially with the concept against "the bad guys" which encroaches far beyond the actual attackers and most certainly across lay populations and children.
Advocating final solutions (or hits so big the bully can't get back up again, the bully being a group of people, pound the bully into the ground so it learns to stop) against a villainized population as opposed to functional solutions to stop harmful/violent actors, restrained to the extent possible to achieve this goal, always need to be stopped where it starts.
Its how we got here and its not how we're going to get out.
I spent only a short time in Iran two decades ago but it was a highlight of my life. My wife was mobbed by young excited girls (at talking to a westerner) “you don’t think we are all terrorists do you?” and they knew so much about my country. I know there have been changes but most Iranians just want to be Persian again. I understand that MI6 and the CIA almost called off Operation Ajax. I believe Iran would be a very different place if they had. Let’s not forget real people live in Iran.
I travelled through Iran in 1973. A beautiful country with beautiful people. The only negative was the universal fear of the secret police, courtesy of the dictatorial Shah (brought to power in 1954 through US orchestrated coup).
Yes. My experience exactly. And when the people looked to help in the Revolution look what they got. Iran had an important role in the world. Sanctions had such a debilitating and isolating effect.
John, yes. I travelled through Iran twice in 1972, to and from India and Nepal in the Hippie years. Many young Irani approached me, out of desperation because of the Shah, who was put into power by the UK and the USA. One student brought me to his home and I stayed overnight. His mother cooked for us. All the Irani people I've ever met have been fine, honorable, and friendly people. Civilized. Not like the vast majority of the Jews I know. Jews just don't get it, and more of the world is figuring that out. It's the tribal mindset that leads them astray. They regard their Jewishness as more important than their humanity.
And even now it's completely, almost 180 degrees from what our talking heads and government lunatics imply, to say nothing of the Zionist filth that blankets our airwaves, cable broadcasts and media.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECsCs9Vxio0
Wow. Who would've thought based on the lies we hear constantly about hijabs and other "morality police" nonsense?
It's not nonsense, ffs, women have been killed.
How many women are in Iranian prisons or death row compared to the USA?
I'm not comparing. Women, life, freedom is their chant I believe.
"Women, Life, Freedom" always came across to me like CIA sloganeering. The western intelligence agencies have had a continued presence in Iran for decades and foment color revolutions everywhere they go. Why would Iranians chant in English if their message is not targeted at a western audience ? Why target a message about Iranian freedom towards a western audience ?
One woman died. And it was an accident, outlier situation.
So why are you so concerned about it? More American women die in a single hour due to not having access to decent prenatal healthcare or abortions than have died in total in Iran since the hair covering "scandal" was forced into our news feeds.
I am always concerned when people pit women's rights in different countries against each other or somehow run over activists seeking women's rights.
We can be upset about women's treatment in the US AND IRAN. We can see Iranians as human deserving good life AND having extremely problematic views and practices regarding women. We can see Iran as having extremely problematic views and practices regarding women AND acknowledge the US does as well. We can also let women in Iran lead us in what they want and need, acknowledging that there is misogyny that will convince some women to uphold the system and that is the SAME in the US, so no we should not downplay women's treatment around the world in any country because it feels safer for our narrative.
I want people using political dog whistles to stop pitting women and the rights of women in the world against each other in order to create craggy definition in their chosen villains and erase perceived villainy in their chosen child.
"One woman died, its an outlier", like sir, thats pretty outrageous for you to put down her life and what happened to her because you're trying to defend against a problematic narrative. And worse trying to pit women suffering in American prisons against women suffering in Iran.
We all want freedom, self determination, dignity; stop running interference. You don't have to sacrifice that for women in order to push back on imperialist narratives
Since I don't know what country you are writing from, I can't really comment on your sentiments. But since I'm in the USA, I absolutely disapprove of any "women's rights" organizations based in the USA doing any of the following:
1) Moralizing to me about women's rights in a foreign country, particularly countries on the US government's official or unofficial "shit list" - Iran, Venezuela, Nicaragua, China, Cuba, Russia, etc. when the US is busy strangling or sanctioning those places and has a history of sending in CIA/NED/USAID (all the same frankly) affiliated NGOs pushing color revolutions/regime change/dissent under the auspices of promoting "women's rights" or "democracy" or "human rights" - and - when the US and/or any American women's rights organizations have no ability to do that in other places like Saudi Arabia, various African countries, etc. where they are US client states, purchasing US military hardware, suppressing human rights, and the like.
Because it always seems like it's the "women's rights" in one of the targeted countries we hear the most about.
2) Moralizing to me about the state of women's rights in any of those places while at the same time incarcerating more women than any other nation on Earth, where abortion is de facto illegal in 75% of the country, and where women's healthcare and mortality rates lag far behind many countries, including sanctioned ones like Cuba and probably even Iran.
If anyone is "running interference" it's the western/Oceania state-affiliated (whether they realize it, admit it or not) liberals who can't or won't recognize that imperialism will only change from within (barring a massive military or economic defeat abroad) and until we have a just, equitable society with "freedom" and self-determination at home, any supposed women's (or other) rights promoting activities abroad - unless they are completely un/disaffiliated with the imperial state - are merely window dressing for more imperial bullshit.
I mean, can you think of a single women's rights organization based in the US, EU, Australia, Canada whose mission it is to promote women's rights in OTHER countries that can claim to be free from imperialist motives/capitalist influence?
Yeah, that might stand if you haven't literally dismissed "one woman's death" as an outlier. which in and of itself is outrageous but puts down every single woman fighting for what they need in Iran and the efforts they have gone through. Efforts that *they* guide. Your US-based outrage on their behalf and subsequent erasure to push back on US-based outrage is shaped by the imperialist country you're from. (And for full disclosure I'm from the US too). You can call those things out without doing the exact framework it blooms from.
It very much comes across as you don't really care about that population you're just using it for your agenda on that population.
We can do both.
If you want to push back on that one sided narrative you can and I applaud that. I just strongly recommend you don't do it as the mirror behavior of what you think you're fighting because you're doing neither population a justice on their behalf.
@ Lisa
There was a time in the not so distant past that Amerikkkan women couldn’t vote, run for office, or own property.
I grew up Roman Catholic and during that time, women/girls were REQUIRED to wear a head covering to Mass.
So just STFU.
Hi Peter
On a flight to Ireland, I sat next to an Iranian gentleman who was going home to visit his mother. It’s too bad that Amerikkkan men can’t be as lovely as this sweet man was.
Yes. I know the authorities can be dangerous but for me the people seem to understand what respect is. They have much to teach the world
Peter, yes! RESPECT! That gentleman didn’t ogle my “girls” once, lol!
I found that. There are of course unsavoury and criminal people in all countries but the genuine respect toward my wife was noticeable. When I was there 80% of students in university were women. I attended the National Symphony Orchestra with a significant female participation. I really hope they can ditch the rule of the hardliners without suffering,
Best to you
I am truly sorry for the USA and UK who have sunk to such moral lows I could never in my worst nightmares imagined this is where we would end up. Neither would I have contemplated leaving the country of my birth (UK) but I have made the decision to do just that. This is no knee jerk reaction but the unequivocal support of Israel and blatant bias shown has been the final straw.
There is nothing new in terms of moral lows. The only difference is that the mask is off. The USA, UK and Israel are no longer trying so hard to hide their imperialist, colonialist, late capitalist depredations.
Absolutely, they never had any morals.
Imperialist and colonist is correct. Capitalist is not
The sociopaths who rule us see morality as a fairy tale used to manipulate the human herd.
They do. But morality means something to me and to many of us, or we wouldn't bother. I have no religion, but my morality, my ethics, how I treat others and how I live, matters greatly. Ultimately it's how one achieves happiness.
:
Somewhere on internet:
"1953 Iranian coup d'état: The United States Central Intelligence Agency and the UK were involved in overthrowing the government of Mohammad Mosaddegh in Iran, so as to retain power for Shah Mohammad Reza Pahlavi."
Evil r us.....we don't give one fuck about "democracy"....and never have.
"To see Iran’s response as “disproportionate” is to admit you believe Israeli lives are worth literally orders of magnitude more than Iranian lives."
This also explains why to Zionists the loss of 33K+ (perhaps 100K) Palestinian lives in the six months of bombing Gaza aren't worth sh*t when compared to Israeli lives. Remember, in "Isreality" (Israeli Reality) only what the Israelis think and believe counts. Nobody else matters and anything they may do to protect themselves from Israeli aggression isn't justified and totally unprovoked. Yeah, it's crazy, but it makes complete sense to abusive narcissists.
“Democracy” and “capitalism” are euphemisms for subjugation, both at home and away from.
Democracy and FASCISM not capitalism
I am so weary of the inhumane shitheads, psychopaths. Thank you to all the good human beings protesting!
Yes, “Bomb, bomb, bomb Iran!” is a self-identifying trait for Warmongers😱☠️
Well, if they do I hope Linsey Graham has a front row seat.
Yeah really. That warmonger/war criminal needs to get a real dose of his own medicine. 🤣😂
I agree! He's a real sicko.
Amazingly Lindsey Graham is absent and silent 🤔
Yeh, but I'm sure not for long. Although many people called him, like I did, and had something to say about his war mongering ways and was totally disgusted by it.
I thought he'd be the first politician to go on TV waving his civil war saber. He's always babbling on about Iran. 😏
I think he's laying low, and no doubt told to do so since Washington, like Caitlin said, is behaving like they are trying to avoid war at all costs and definitely do not want a regional war. Which I also think is definitely not true. .
I agree with you on this. I think America will be in another war. 😞😢 This one could really be the "war to end all wars" (and life/world as we know it).
“No matter who you vote for, you get John McCain.” -Tom Woods
... and a CIA phone/internet tap.
My sister-in-law probably loved singing a long with that little ditty back then. Oh yeah, what a blast from the past. 😂🤣🤮
I knew as soon as Iran did anything the human shaped grub known as Mike Pompeo would be invited to the MSM to give us his "expert" opinion.
Apparently he is being dangled as Secretary of State in a second Trump Administration.
Of course, a lot can happen between now and November, but Trump is still weak, stupid and easily manipulated.
Mike Pompeo should NOT be trusted
Simplicius has a good analysis of the Iranian retaliatory strikes on Israeli military bases. It looks like all or most of the Iranian ballistic missiles got through the Iron Dome and US/UK additional defenses, though most cheap drones and cruise missiles got taken out by expensive and limited-supply air defense missiles. https://simplicius76.substack.com/p/iran-breaches-anglo-zionist-defenses
Yes. Simplicius is great.
Thanks for that link - vey important analysis - the only thing I urged caution on was how S characterized the Biden/US response. WH sources are saying Biden call to BiBi US would NOT militarily support attacks on Iran. Biden himself has pledged US support to the defense of Israel.
But the US has defined "defense" to include just about anything.
Dangerous ground. I think Russia has warned the US, but it is not "official".
Hi Dr John
( My brother John is an MD too!)
Scott Ritter had an excellent video on YouTube with Carl Zha on the subject too.
Reading and watching Ritter a lot lately.
:-)
Cowardly scumbag who’s prepared to sacrifice humanity for naught.
“They have plundered the world, stripping naked the land in their hunger… they are driven by greed, if their enemy be rich; by ambition, if poor… They ravage, they slaughter, they seize by false pretenses, and all of this they hail as the construction of empire. And when in their wake nothing remains but a desert, they call that peace.”
― Tacitus, The Agricola and The Germania
Yes, so what does anyone propose to do about it?
The sociopaths who rule over us are unimpressed with our clever word games, our tightly reasoned arguments and close readings of texts. They are unmoved by facts, evidence, logic or morality, as long as they have force on their side, as long as the police and army will shoot when ordered to do so.
there's nothing new under the sun!
Mass media in the U.S implies mass indoctrination. When the owners of the planet dictate what the masses will hear, the propaganda machine relentlessly displays how easy it is to manipulate minds. When Big Daddy says: 'The sky is green', anyone who opposes the brainwashed are instructed to visit an optical shop and buy eyeglasses with shades of green.
The fact that nuclear Armageddon has not yet come home to roost is the surest sign that Lady Luck may have as much patience as God... but after the sixth day, even God went home.
The night is young. No one believed previous wars would happen yet they did. This time it's no different.
Why is there even existence in the first place? Why is there anything at all?? Seems pretty impossible to me in the first place. But what do I know ...
jamenta,
Descartes asked the same question 400 years ago... but " I think, therefore I am" fell short of the existence debate. Your questions are probably unanswerable. To exist, time must exist, but how does it exist if we were alive a few seconds ago, are alive now, and will be alive a few second from now. No one knows what life is, even though it exists all around us. Same for time, space,... we probably know less about anything than dodo birds knew how to read the bible. If anyone can answer your questions, I'm all ears. lol
“What time is it?”, “Not what time WAS it?” George Carlin🤪🤪🤪
I would guess Father Time could probably provide an answer, but not quite ready to meet him just yet... Carlin was a great stand-up... lol
Good answer John Turcot.
Well, approximately 13.8 billion years ago...and then, about four billion years ago...and then, about 100,000 years ago...and then we woke up.
About as good an explanation as God hovering over the waters and yelling, "Let there be Light!"
But I thank you.
Ultimately, you have to find meaning wherever you can. My path will be different.
You just want to be different than the rest of us don't you Ikester!
:-) But I am! And so are you!
sounds like a yearning to become stardust to me.
Similar pathologies were expressed on the cusp of WW I.
Our fearless leader, Trudeau, said yet again that "Israel has the right to defend itself". And others repeated after him. As if they were making vows to each other. Is there some kind of virus affecting world leaders so that they can no longer think in a straight line (that is saying that they ever did). Israel or the US or Germany or the UK are morally superior to who? Are they competing with each other to see who can destroy the earth the fastest? To see who can cause the most children to die? To see who can destroy the most infrastructure belonging to "human animals" the fastest. Biden or Trump; take your choice of which one you want to create more chaos and danger. And I don't see many choices that are good for the people anywhere else either.
"Israel has the right to defend itself"
"Iran-backed Houthis"
"Putin's UNPROVOKED invasion of Ukraine"
"Russia's FULL-SCALE invasion of Ukraine"
"Israel is our ALLY"
"Saddam, WMDs, Mushroom Clouds"
Repeat any of that shit enough times, and a lot of very gullible or busy people believe it. Start in during childhood and most of 'em will act like the guy in "The Matrix" whose brain hurt so bad from reality that he chose to plug back in and enjoy a nice juicy steak.
Mango:
But…but…but…DO YOU CONDEMN HAMAS? 😂
Exactly. LOL. Do you know who Abby Martin is? She's great. I'm really surprised Piers Morgan and a few other mainstream commentators even invite her onto their show. When she was asked that question she totally ignored it, and then when pressed on it she said "No, and here's why..."
Spot on! Through inertia this becomes fact.
"Unjustified" and "unprecedented" are the slogans of the day.
I choose to go with People, Planet and Peace. #VoteGreen for jillstein2024.com Dr. Stein would put an end to the MIC and the endless wars that are murdering millions and destroying our environment.
To be fair, if Jill Stein were to become president today, she'd find herself unable to accomplish anything, blocked at every stage by people in an out of government.
Of course she would. The empire just wouldn’t allow it.
Reality is she can't win. Why doesn't she win some lower offices and work her way up gaining support?
Maybe. But it would probably not be only her making the decisions. I have seen people who had great ideas get railroaded into doing what the moneygrubbers want. What is the MIC?
The Military-Industrial Complex. US Greens do not take any corporate money or PAC money (Political Action Committees--groups of rich people/corporations' money). Dr. Stein has spoken at length about shutting down the war machine/MIC, disarming the nuclear arsenal, and putting our tax dollars to use in building up the people, not trying to explode the planet.
I don't live in the US. I would vote for her if I did, but I still am not sure that one person or even one party can really change things all that drastically. We need another system. One that can escape the threats and intimidation of AIPAC and other money grubbers.
You're right. We need a Revolution. I see wiping the duopolists (Democrats and Republicans) off the map as a much needed first step. Take the money out of politics in the US and regulate the billionaires and tax them until their pips squeak goes along with that first step, too.
What sort of a revolution is it that would leave the Rothschilds in control of the global money supply? They and their usurious money system are most definitively the fundamental problem.
When I lived and worked in Denmark a long time ago, a huge part of my salary went to taxes. But dental, medical, daycare and more were paid for. They had a system of taxation where the more money you earned, the more your taxes went up until it didn't make sense to earn any more money because most of it would be taxed. There is a name for that system, but I can't remember it. Unfortunately, I think they may have changed that system. Denmark has been sadly influenced by the US. I realized that the shit had hit the fan a long time back when I saw cops beating up protesters at a gathering of politicians regarding the climate. When I lived there, I got kicked out of a park for picking the flowers. I was also drinking wine, but that was not the problem. It was picking the flowers that really got him riled up.
ALAS, YOU CAN'T TAKE THE MONEY OUT OF POLITICS. ANYMORE THAN YOU CAN TAKE IT OUT OF THE SUPPLY OF FOOD -- OR ANYTHING ELSE!
Hi TRC
Jill Stein’s had my vote all along. It’s a matter of conscience.
"Is there some kind of virus affecting world leaders so that they can no longer think in a straight line"
I can only chalk it up to some kind of unknown, weird virus that scientists have not yet figured out. Hopefully soon, because things ain't looking good - at least from my end here in Idaho.
Greed, unaccountable stupidity (incl. failing ever upward in the corrupt system), and being totally out of touch with the people they ostensibly govern are all worse than any virus.
Yes - but what if it's some kind of virus we haven't discovered yet?? o.0
Maybe we could find a vaccine for them
And become richer than sin!!
THAT'S HOW THEY GOT TO BE THE LEADERS....
"Of course there are going to be populations who refuse to be subjugated," and rightly so.
The real danger is the damage that has been done already. You can't go through what we have seen lately by Israel and its grovelling acolyte, America, without wanting to see some kind of solution that is able to satisfy Palestinians, the victims of these months of criminal activities.
That should also mean penalties for the two criminal countries involved, Israel and the USA.
How does that happen. What international organisation has the authority to institute, or better still, demand that a resolution is put in place immediately? The ICJ has proven itself to be a synthetic powder puff organisational, looking so very serious but in too many cases, the Judges are totally influenced by the governments in their own countries. Therefore , just another United Nations.
Now that organisations, the UN, should be the controllers of such decisions but it also is totally dependent on threats to withhold funding, and of course, the number one weapon called the US VETO.
So once again, it is totally politicised.
Over time we have seen people like the devious Israelis who conjur up all sorts of support mechanisms to influence the UN vote. Tourism being one; exports being another. If you are cunning enough in dealing with an Island with a very small population but with a vote in the General Assembly, it is an easy task to bribe them in many different ways as has been the case by Israel seeking support from all and sundry. Bribery and corruption after all, is the predominant Israeli weapon of choice. The USA on the other hand use threats, economic bullying, and sanctions as their weapons of choice. Standard practice for 70 years.
The winner under those circumstances is the bully boy with the largest stockpile of weaponry, these days meaning nuclear warheads. What a world we have become.
From what I hear: It seems that Russia is way ahead of the Us in its weapons which is why I believe the USA will only attack smaller territories as it becomes the end for Colonial US.
Well articulated. The creation of the state of Israel in the UN was done through bribery and threat. It has and continues to practise the same tactics, aided and abetted by the Brits and Americans till this day. The question that one has to ask is why would those western powers do that? What’s the motive? The only one that I can think of and that makes sense is the white supremacist colonial mindset where one race is superior and in control of another. Forget all the universal human rights, equality, peace schtick. It’s white supremacists all the way down..
I agree that Israel shouldn’t exist . they succeeded b/c Baron Rothschild and his family financed the Zionist invasion of Palestine.
And oil, I guess.
Although there is no oil in Palestine (as of yet) but it might have been good sense for a western implant in the form of Israel to exist in that oil and resource rich region, which was a critical post for the British empire. Bear in mind that the Brits did strike ‘deals’ with the rulers of the region to exploit its natural resources but the aim was to always introduce a foreign body in its midst in the spirit of divide and conquer. Also bearing in mind that the Brits were not that keen on granting the Jews their own nation (it’s not like antisemitism originated anywhere but Europe..) but it was only thanks to the Zionist factions of the British government at the time that a Zionist state was able to get off the ground.. that and the terrorist tactics that the Zionists used against the British colonialists and native Palestinians to get their way. The Holocaust was the perfect opportunity for the Zionists to harness the power of guilt + knowing and appealing to the colonialist mind to get their way. That structure has been maintained for decades through inertia (‘Israel’s right to exist’ has become a fact, an adage, something you can never question or interrogate.. even though it is just as worthy of analysis as anything else under the sun)).
This has become the status quo and to dislodge it would require an act of extremism. I believe that is what Hamas wanted to achieve with 7 Oct.
The only true justice would be for Israelis to back to where they or their parents came from and give all the land back to the Palestinians. A girl can dream.
I agree 100%, they should be f*cked out, lock stock and barrel
Well, the entire west is a Zionist entity when it comes to middle eastern politics (I prefer to call the region west Asia but whatever..) so there’s that.. and the reason the west is Zionist is not because they love the Jews in particular.. they love the Zionist ideology that was born from the supremacist imperialist mind in Europe. If Hitler and Satan got together and had a child, it would be Zionist Israel..
Don’t forget that America is aptly named the Great Satan.