I have long said as much, how humans spend much of their energy, not hunting, groom8ng, napping, mating or socializing, but chasing after pieces of green paper. Their housing, mates, food, their safety, everything depends on these pieces of green paper, which they cannot eat or sleep upon and which have no real use that I can see. These days, the "green paper" itself may not physically even exist, just be in the form of electrons, ciphers in a bank they never have visited. Yet humans every day kill and die for these.
This system is so unnatural that their offspring have to be instructed in it for years, while a six week old kitten knows that mice are for chasing, sunny spots are for naps, and dogs are best avoided.
Douglas Adams said it in the Hitchhiker’s Guide: “This planet has—or rather had—a problem, which was this: most of the people living on it were unhappy for pretty much of the time. Many solutions were suggested for this problem, but most of these were largely concerned with the movements of small green pieces of paper, which is odd because on the whole it wasn’t the small green pieces of paper that were unhappy.”
Amway, forty years ago, taught me that the love of money is the greatest danger we face on this planet. Those who have not enough to survive doomed to pursuing it 24/7/365, those who think they can survive on just a few more bobbles convinced that they are better off than their next door neighbors, and those with plenty more than they can spent in their lifetime, struggling to keep it. The love of money is a disease.
I'd say one of the most extreme cases that reveals just how twisted and sick this system of green pieces of paper can be / has become, is that they are necessary for a time-demarcated dose in a private, sealed room with a person you don't know and who (doctorate notwithstanding), really, knows barely a damn thing about you, to engage, in complete trust (due to their "nice" demeanor), in a context-free *simulation* of ostensibly the most intimate of connections. Versus what *should* be a well-thought out but thoroughly community/peer-based system, as existed in most all civilizations before the contemporary West.
This is possibly one of purest evils of contemporary civilization, and we are largely oblivious to it. At least doling out psychoactive substances isn't lying about what it's doing.
LOL. I read it, unaware, for my first assignment in my freshman English class, long ago. Not only was I embarrassed by the fact that I misunderstood it, after I was the first to volunteer their thoughts, but my "peers" with professional parents knew all about it, several apparently well beforehand. Simultaneously, my education about Education had began.
But I must re-read it now, because I don't recall anything about psychiatry. (It was before my first personal engagement with psychiatry.)
It's a drug reference from the 60-70s in the baseball world. I didn't remember what Greenies were until after looking it up and finding that bit of history. I have never been much of a drug user so I would caution you on trying any Greenies from the 60-70s ha. Being a vegetarian, I would bet the Greenies taste good : )
Tell my cat to stay away from dogs. He just doesn't get it. But he has his favorite spots for napping inside and out, and he does enjoy chasing butterflies.
The only good that came out of "covid" is I realized we're living under a mountain of lies and manipulation, now we have to de-program our minds from the decades of bullshit we were told.
Don’t you need to wonder why you ate that bowl of dog shit to begin with? Why did no yuppie ever have an ounce of skepticism to “share on Facebook”? No conscience to exclaim against social injustice, war, and Wall Street? O yeah—9/11. And the sheep ran bleating for the shelter of Bush the Dumber, afraid to see the obvious lie in front of their noses.
"Don’t you need to wonder why ..." - you don't, Jeapo, if you're not stupid to begin with. If you are not charmed by the supposed human superiority in nature. Your having been a proud hippy disqualifies you from pondering the notion.
I am happy. However we get to truth is a victory for all of us. The system does not make it easy to get past the propaganda. For many years I thought I was alone. Welcome to the real world
It is capitalism that is creating that narrative you talk about. Under capitalism, wealth equals success. Power creates wealth which means you are a successful person. Indigenous peoples have had better forms of governance, but unfortunately they have had their systems wiped out by captialist conquerers who have imposed their lifestyles on them and made a complete mess of what in the past may have been, if not a perfect, then a much better system for ordinary people.
Although, I do think that capitalism is perhaps the ultimate expressions of those destructive narratives, we humans were busy fighting wars of annihilation for millennia before capitalism. We do ourselves no favor if we shorten the timeline of what we are facing. Even a quick look into numerous ancient religious texts will make that clear. Capitalism is not the cause of our problems, but it is one of the biggest obstacles to resolving them.
Before capitalism, there was feudalism which is a pre-cursor to capitalism. I don't believe that humans are by nature war mongers and greedy. But I do believe that humans can learn to be any way they are pushed toward. Especially if they are being directed to what looks as if it will give them a better life. That's where the narrative comes in. Trying to convince people that enriching a few landlords, bosses, and political leaders will actually be better for themselves.
Exactly. It's humans that are the problem and capitalism is just the latest manifestation of it. Susan T "believes that humans can learn to be any way" and so you have no common basis to argue the point.
Yes, humans can learn - to become skilled in this and that much better than monkeys or dolphins - but their nature stays the same no matter how better they learn (the word again) to hide their true intentions and nature (another word again).
Is every person you know inherently selfish and destructive? We would not have survived as a species if that were so, we are actually biologically wired for altruism, the first signs of civilisation weren't trade, but evidence of healed wounds that required others to deliberately keep that individual alive during the extensive healing time, instead of leaving them to die.
Part of the narrative is that we are all individually selfish. Most are not, but humans are supremely adaptable and malleable when it comes to majority rule, tapping into our natural survival conformity is how we are manipulated.
"Is every person you know inherently selfish and destructive?" - "selfish" and "destructive" would require extensive qualifications, don't you think? IOW, your question is too generic. The notions will have to be broken down and walked through one by one.
You are talking about how some people decide to conduct their lives. Not everyone decides to "hide their true intentions" etc. It is not human nature at all. It is something that people have learned to do either defensively or to grab power.
That's right - "some" people. Now we need to define "some". Apparently, in the west "some" means majority that forms the foundation of their current systems. They "decided" and so have the system to suit them.
You claim it's not "human nature" to hide true intentions. I assume then that you always speak your mind in every situation. Do you? Probably not. Why? Because you were taught "manners". And what are manners if not controlling one's natural instincts - ie fight one's human nature. By means of learning.
You are being silly. Humans have no instincts, an instinct being defined as something one is born knowing how to do. Everything humans do is learned one way or another. I suppose a great deal depends on where you learn what you learn. But humans are remarkably adaptable and can eventually understand that what they learned at one time no longer applies, if it ever did. A spider has the instinct to spin webs because they are born knowing how to do that. I doubt they can unlearn that.
Humans have been believing in false narratives and supporting oppressive empire for about 6,000 years. Read some history. Roman legions? Persian Empire? Mongul invasions?
Sounds like someone who has had the privilege to not have to fight to control the things he creates. Get back to me if you ever have the things you create so chronically ripped from you with no recourse that you go mad, like the majority of Americans.
"Sounds like someone who has had the privilege to not have to fight to control the things he creates."
I apologize about that comment. I was in a bad mood, but there is never a justification for an evidence-free accusation.
That said, I have run into plenty of people who came from money/stability/etc and higher who lived in huts etc. for months, and from that slice of time (still possessing an upper-class or upper-middle-class brain along with unbroken relationship escape hatches) claim to know what being homeless is like. But I don't know you. May I ask how were you raised?
Getting back to the capitalism topic, if you care to:
"I disagree that having power over the things one creates is a primal human urge. / It's not about power over, it's about cooperation with. Striving for power over things is the basic problem with 'civilization' if that's what it is."
I still say maintaining "power over the things one creates", AND "cooperation with" other humans within one's social environment, AND (I'll add) conflict with other humans both inside (temporary) and outside (perpetual) one's social environment are, yes, natural human needs/instincts. I would say "Striving for power over" *other* peoples' creations is, instead, "the basic problem with 'civilization' " How else could Marx talk about "appropriation" of labor if he wasn't asserting that something the laborer created was being taken from him?
The problem with Marx, however, is from that, *then* he asserts a sweeping generalization of some kind of right to "common" ownership (in practice, always perpetually controlled by a vanguard!) -- a generalization plucked from his imagination that, IMO, quickly becomes far worse than that the capitalist version (which at least is "closer to the earth), and which has caused easily as much misery since 1917 as capitalism since the rise of heavy industrialization since early 19th century.
As a tangential note, I am *beyond skeptical* at this point in my life of all the things my "betters" (I don't mean you) have tried to tell me over the decades, from the religious to the government to the education establishments and beyond. Analogous to evangelical Christians' use of "WWJD" (What Would Jesus Do?) I have my own immediate, conscious reaction to EVERYTHING told to me that clashes with my experience: "WWIBT" (Why Would I Believe That?) Thus I have less-than-zero respect for authorities ipso facto, which is quite different from my younger stupid days several decades ago, and, apparently, *especially* quite different from most "normal" people today.
In the US, the reality of the Uniparty plays out in our fake 2-party system…the Dems just put a softer face on their vicious and, ultimately, sadistic capitalism.
I'm glad you think it could go either way. Most days I am more pessimistic than that. However, with all of my generation and the next at or nearing the age of death, there may be some hope for the young.
Meh, Boomers fought back, activists to the core, many of us. Liberation of people into real power, and respect for the natural world. Sure, some were coopted, suited up and joined daddy's business. Nothing like that fiery spirit has shown up (yet) and it really needs to -- we can't afford the false hope or optimism. We have to nurture this in the later gens, only with sanity and strength, as the current political sway is fragility and hurt feelers.
Boomers fought back to the best of their ability but the young people today are also fighting back. I go to demos every week and there are plenty of young people as well as quite a few older people at the demos. So far, the police have been more restrained where I live. Let's hope that keeps up.
Same here. I'm about to go to a July 4th demo at a downtown food festival area... Let's see how that goes. Standing on a corner while cars drive by and people honk in support or yell not-so-nice things out their windows is one thing, but being on the ground face to face in a pedestrian mall filled with food trucks and fireworks?
Narratives shape how people perceive and think about material reality, but in the end they don't change material reality itself. In the end, the latter always bites everyone on the ass.
I think it's time to accept a challenge from one of my subscribers and write a discourse on philosophical idealism vs. philosophical materialism. We are dominated by idealists who believe the world works in the way that they want it to, but it doesn't, so they try to force it into submission. This approach never has worked forever and it never will.
>>"but in the end they don't change material reality itself"
What exactly do you mean by that (i.e. what material reality are you talking of that doesn't change?)
Narratives change what people believe and think. What people think changes how people act and behave. How people act and the actions they take change reality (for themselves and others).
That’s a very good question and I cannot sufficiently answer it in a note. It will take a post of its own. If you do me the courtesy of looking for it, I hope to get it out this weekend, or maybe Monday.
What would it mean for "idealists" - I assume some humans - to go along with "how the world works"? And does it mean that current "non-idealists" do it already?
Actually, who knows how the world works in order to right the humanity?
More good questions. I’ll be writing a post on the two major schools of philosophical thought, upon which all of our ideologies and religions are ultimately based. IMHO, of course.
Neither metaphysical view has been conclusively proven however. One would hope your article would include that the mystery of why reality even exists, or what is consciousness, still remains a mystery, philosophically and scientifically. It is true philosophical materialism is the dominate narrative of our milieu at the moment, but reductive materialism still only remains a mythological narrative - like all other mythological narratives of past human epochs.
Yes, though the people in power (through most of history) tend to employ those narratives that maintain the status quo and enable them to remain in power.
In a world dominated by print and electronic media (aka social media, etc.), our sense of reality is increasingly structured by narratives. Feature films and documentaries tell us stories about ourselves and the world we live in. Television speaks back to us and offers us ‘reality’ in the form of hyperbole and parody. Print journalism turns daily life into a story. Advertisements narrativise our fantasies and desires. And social media creates (and propagates through virality) its own unique blend of narratives.
As long as human beings have had the power of speech, they have been speaking in narratives, goes the theory. Yet there is nothing natural or universal about our "present" narratives, which are a form of representation. As such, it is historically and culturally positioned to turn information and events into structures that are already meaningful to their audiences. Since the media are now the major controllers of narrative production and consumption in the Western world, the stories that seem the most ‘natural’ are the ones to which the media have accustomed us.
Humans have been ruled/managed/controlled by narratives since time immemorial. The real struggle (IMHO) is - "how do those people that lack power (the 99%) take control of the narrative and make their narratives ubiquitous and be able to fight back against the narratives of those in power?"
Narratives and Myths…and the non discerning mind scoops it up hook, line and sinker
Critical thinking skills should be taught in every grade K-12 but why on earth would they want to do that. POWER TO THE PEOPLE not the sheeple. Bahhah 🐑
>>"Critical thinking skills should be taught in every grade K-12"
EXACTLY!
Teaching Critical Thinking skills and Media Literacy are 2 of the most important factors (IMHO) that should be focused on in an effort to escape/break-out-of the brainwashing and gaslighting narratives that seem to have been standardized in our societies and cultures.
But as you say, why would those in power want to do that?
Human beings are self - domesticated herd animals that prefer safety to freedom; hiding in the herd is the safest defense mechanism. When danger lurks, hide in the herd and run where they run; chances are the wolf will take someone else. And sheep follow the lead sheep, they like fences, and they never understand that the Shepard is the one who fleeces the herd, butchers the lamb, culls the herd, and dines on mutton. If we are honest, we need to accept that we are a vast minority among 330 million Americans, and that the vast majority of people prefer to live in safe myths, reassuring narratives, and psychological safety. And also, that we are largely takers’ rather than ‘narratives makers’.
>>"the vast majority of people prefer to live in safe myths, reassuring narratives, and psychological safety."
Very, very TRUE! Based on this understanding, I don't see a solution to the "narrative" (and propaganda) problems. Are we doomed to living in our present systems and unable to change them for the better? Is there any (realistic) way to fight back against the "narrative makers"? I'm desperately searching for hope to alternatives, but am unable to find one. (Is the problem with me for not trying hard enough to find alternatives/hope? or is the problem that we are caught in a vice-like grip under the systems, institutions, and organizations of the "narrative makers" and unable to effectively break free of them?)
I wouldn't use the word "unnatural" -- because, well-arguably, what exists is what is natural -- but it IS now clearly regressive for the difficult balancing act of civilization, deeply unhealthy for huge populations.
"[W]e ... think, speak, act, work, spend and vote in ways we would never otherwise would"
What are these realistically possible ways that we "never otherwise would"? Where have these ways been stable in large populations? What we have now is, really, what we've always had in terms of anti-social behavior. What's unprecedented is only the technology surrounding them.
"The believed thought stories in our minds are what drive us to hate, abuse, harm and kill our fellow humans. ... / ... we’ve all agreed to believe a bunch of made-up narratives saying that these [stories] are true."
As it always has been.
Regarding stories, establishment guru Yuval Noah Harari had/has something to say on the wonders of "made-up things", see eg "Sapiens". But I've not seen him make any moral distinction therein between the value of two types of mental objects: (A) those *imposed* by secretive individuals/groups (e.g. monarchy myths; COVID behavioral protocols) on the one hand, and (B) public *tentative* proposals for agreement (e.g. the US Constitution; the Occupy decision-making protocols) on the other. Ignoring that distinction is a problem.
Against the sociopaths running things, we need to up our game -- and badly. You may have already noticed that it's not enough to (try to) shame people with no scruples.
A patriarchal thought process cannot fix patriarchy anymore than the teeth can bite themselves. Try truly thinking outside the box, not just fiddling with distinctions without a difference.
Nonsense. You came here to respond to me, but instead provide just a content stub with an bottomless pointer. As a sales pitch, it is a failure. Stubs with pointers make no sense between equals in a public forum. They are rhetorical tricks. Either have a dialogue with me, or admit you are unwilling.
Another reason your second post here is silly is that I can make precisely the same point to you, that you show no evidence of understanding what I said in my first post about nature and stories. Should I just point you to Western philosophy and history, and tell you to educate yourself? It seems to me just as necessary for you, but I would be contemptibly lazy to rely on that wave of the hand.
Complaints about patriarchy (and plenty of other things still alien to the existing Western culture) have been nurtured almost solely in academic environment. These and other woke complaints have sprung fully-formed onto the wider adult public (who are primarily engaged in productive things other than getting "juiced in it"), yet woke "conclusions" rammed through by hook and by crook by woke "experts" untested in the wider marketplace of ideas.
This is clearly by malevolent design, just as it was, for example, in Mao's brilliant power creation of the Cultural Revolution to counter critics in the Communist Party using his young Red Guards. Rather than incorporate the society at large for this proposed development in wisdom, instead student armies sprung forth with their high energy and low wisdom. The Cultural Revolution was, as history shows, an unmitigated disaster.
OK so how do we wake the masses up? We are at a tipping point but most seem to be focused on nothing other than their survival…they have us right where they want us…until they don’t.
We need leadership. In the 60s, and 70s the leaderships came from our communist Khazars in the media and Hollywood. They use to say if you see a military guy in uniform SPIT ON HIM? Who is going to tell us when some clerk in a store demand that you put mask on to SPIT ON HIM?
Modern civilization is like a cancer, in which everything depends on the next dose of sugar for the population...Long term thinking has practically disappeared, and most leaders are simply puppets for the super wealthy, who despite having more money than they could ever spend, will do anything to keep the grift going...The West is in the looting phase of societal collapse, complete with ultra low birth rates and un-payable debt, which contends to expand exponentially...Get out of the cities and find a place where your family might survive....
How about to the turn of the 20th century, Gregor? It isn’t the Amish who are creating climate change and waging wars.
I could happily be Amish if not for the religious thing and dress code. Horse-drawn transportation? Producing all one’s own food? The sense of community? Love it!
The Amish are allowed the use of generators. As for the internet, most Amish own smartphones.
When my in-laws owned a vacation home in Northern Michigan, we observed the large Amish population there. Besides the lack of electrical wires leading to their farms, one could spot an Amish farm instantly; they were the most beautiful and well-kept. We used to love to see the men harvesting hay by hand. And if one passed a horse-drawn vehicle on the road, the driver invariably tipped his hat to each and every driver he encountered. Lovely, lovely people🥰
It wouldn't make any difference. It's the nature of the homo-sapiens to proclaim itself a "ruler of everything living or not" "God's image" ...or more like a "Apex predator." Read the most devastating book I ever read, Paradise Lost by Steve Nicchols. We aren't any different.
I didn't read the book, but, man, I saw the movie, and it was horrific. At least when Errol Morris's "The Thin Blue LIne," came out, we could go directly to the lobby and sign a peition to free Randall Dale Adams Eventually we were successful. For the guys in Paradise Lost, there was never anything we could do to help them.
Many thousands of years. Going back only a few would not be of any value. These current narratives likely began after the Agricultural Revolution, and does that have a lot to answer for.
In many tribal societies intra-tribal violence was common and 10% to 25% of males died in violent confrontation. Never before have so many lived so free of violence as today. Even the war in Ukraine, horrific as it is, is but a shadow of the 40 million souls that died in the 6 years of WWII.
I have long said as much, how humans spend much of their energy, not hunting, groom8ng, napping, mating or socializing, but chasing after pieces of green paper. Their housing, mates, food, their safety, everything depends on these pieces of green paper, which they cannot eat or sleep upon and which have no real use that I can see. These days, the "green paper" itself may not physically even exist, just be in the form of electrons, ciphers in a bank they never have visited. Yet humans every day kill and die for these.
This system is so unnatural that their offspring have to be instructed in it for years, while a six week old kitten knows that mice are for chasing, sunny spots are for naps, and dogs are best avoided.
Douglas Adams said it in the Hitchhiker’s Guide: “This planet has—or rather had—a problem, which was this: most of the people living on it were unhappy for pretty much of the time. Many solutions were suggested for this problem, but most of these were largely concerned with the movements of small green pieces of paper, which is odd because on the whole it wasn’t the small green pieces of paper that were unhappy.”
Douglas Adams is a saint, in my opinion.
The love of money is the root of all (I would say most) evil
Amway, forty years ago, taught me that the love of money is the greatest danger we face on this planet. Those who have not enough to survive doomed to pursuing it 24/7/365, those who think they can survive on just a few more bobbles convinced that they are better off than their next door neighbors, and those with plenty more than they can spent in their lifetime, struggling to keep it. The love of money is a disease.
Actually, it’s capitalism.
I'd say one of the most extreme cases that reveals just how twisted and sick this system of green pieces of paper can be / has become, is that they are necessary for a time-demarcated dose in a private, sealed room with a person you don't know and who (doctorate notwithstanding), really, knows barely a damn thing about you, to engage, in complete trust (due to their "nice" demeanor), in a context-free *simulation* of ostensibly the most intimate of connections. Versus what *should* be a well-thought out but thoroughly community/peer-based system, as existed in most all civilizations before the contemporary West.
This is possibly one of purest evils of contemporary civilization, and we are largely oblivious to it. At least doling out psychoactive substances isn't lying about what it's doing.
I suppose you've read "Body Rituals of The Nacirema"?
If not, you should.
LOL. I read it, unaware, for my first assignment in my freshman English class, long ago. Not only was I embarrassed by the fact that I misunderstood it, after I was the first to volunteer their thoughts, but my "peers" with professional parents knew all about it, several apparently well beforehand. Simultaneously, my education about Education had began.
But I must re-read it now, because I don't recall anything about psychiatry. (It was before my first personal engagement with psychiatry.)
Available for free on the internet!
The Burning Man cultists should familiarize themselves with it and petition for compliance.
Is it OK if I say I love you for that : )
Got any greenies(r)?
The Amphetamines or the Treats : )
What use has a cat for amphetamines? Never heard of that kind of "Greenies".
It's a drug reference from the 60-70s in the baseball world. I didn't remember what Greenies were until after looking it up and finding that bit of history. I have never been much of a drug user so I would caution you on trying any Greenies from the 60-70s ha. Being a vegetarian, I would bet the Greenies taste good : )
Tell my cat to stay away from dogs. He just doesn't get it. But he has his favorite spots for napping inside and out, and he does enjoy chasing butterflies.
The big alpha tom in the barnyard when I was growing up had no fear of dogs.
Are you sure it identifies as a cat ?? ...
🤣🤣🤣
Please consider signing this petition to have Joe Biden Excommunicated from the Catholic Church
https://chng.it/LzP6YVBxv9
The only good that came out of "covid" is I realized we're living under a mountain of lies and manipulation, now we have to de-program our minds from the decades of bullshit we were told.
Don’t you need to wonder why you ate that bowl of dog shit to begin with? Why did no yuppie ever have an ounce of skepticism to “share on Facebook”? No conscience to exclaim against social injustice, war, and Wall Street? O yeah—9/11. And the sheep ran bleating for the shelter of Bush the Dumber, afraid to see the obvious lie in front of their noses.
"Don’t you need to wonder why ..." - you don't, Jeapo, if you're not stupid to begin with. If you are not charmed by the supposed human superiority in nature. Your having been a proud hippy disqualifies you from pondering the notion.
Which is precisely the message from Caitlin's recent post regarding confirmation bias ...
https://doc115.substack.com/p/on-keeping-the-adventure-going?r=18tk5o
Best of luck, friend ~~ j ~~
I am happy. However we get to truth is a victory for all of us. The system does not make it easy to get past the propaganda. For many years I thought I was alone. Welcome to the real world
: )
It is capitalism that is creating that narrative you talk about. Under capitalism, wealth equals success. Power creates wealth which means you are a successful person. Indigenous peoples have had better forms of governance, but unfortunately they have had their systems wiped out by captialist conquerers who have imposed their lifestyles on them and made a complete mess of what in the past may have been, if not a perfect, then a much better system for ordinary people.
Although, I do think that capitalism is perhaps the ultimate expressions of those destructive narratives, we humans were busy fighting wars of annihilation for millennia before capitalism. We do ourselves no favor if we shorten the timeline of what we are facing. Even a quick look into numerous ancient religious texts will make that clear. Capitalism is not the cause of our problems, but it is one of the biggest obstacles to resolving them.
Before capitalism, there was feudalism which is a pre-cursor to capitalism. I don't believe that humans are by nature war mongers and greedy. But I do believe that humans can learn to be any way they are pushed toward. Especially if they are being directed to what looks as if it will give them a better life. That's where the narrative comes in. Trying to convince people that enriching a few landlords, bosses, and political leaders will actually be better for themselves.
Exactly. It's humans that are the problem and capitalism is just the latest manifestation of it. Susan T "believes that humans can learn to be any way" and so you have no common basis to argue the point.
Yes, humans can learn - to become skilled in this and that much better than monkeys or dolphins - but their nature stays the same no matter how better they learn (the word again) to hide their true intentions and nature (another word again).
Is every person you know inherently selfish and destructive? We would not have survived as a species if that were so, we are actually biologically wired for altruism, the first signs of civilisation weren't trade, but evidence of healed wounds that required others to deliberately keep that individual alive during the extensive healing time, instead of leaving them to die.
Part of the narrative is that we are all individually selfish. Most are not, but humans are supremely adaptable and malleable when it comes to majority rule, tapping into our natural survival conformity is how we are manipulated.
"Is every person you know inherently selfish and destructive?" - "selfish" and "destructive" would require extensive qualifications, don't you think? IOW, your question is too generic. The notions will have to be broken down and walked through one by one.
You are talking about how some people decide to conduct their lives. Not everyone decides to "hide their true intentions" etc. It is not human nature at all. It is something that people have learned to do either defensively or to grab power.
That's right - "some" people. Now we need to define "some". Apparently, in the west "some" means majority that forms the foundation of their current systems. They "decided" and so have the system to suit them.
You claim it's not "human nature" to hide true intentions. I assume then that you always speak your mind in every situation. Do you? Probably not. Why? Because you were taught "manners". And what are manners if not controlling one's natural instincts - ie fight one's human nature. By means of learning.
Thus spaketh the great wizard of butts.
Go after Susan T, Jeapo 😉. She's ripe. 🤣🤡
You are being silly. Humans have no instincts, an instinct being defined as something one is born knowing how to do. Everything humans do is learned one way or another. I suppose a great deal depends on where you learn what you learn. But humans are remarkably adaptable and can eventually understand that what they learned at one time no longer applies, if it ever did. A spider has the instinct to spin webs because they are born knowing how to do that. I doubt they can unlearn that.
"You are being silly." - you got me, girl!
Re instincts - I assume you sucked a nipple. Maybe you had lessons in the womb.
Exactly. I wish people put the blame on the root cause instead of something else.
"Exactly. I wish people put the blame on the root cause instead of something else."
The root cause is UNFETTERED capitalism.
Humans have been believing in false narratives and supporting oppressive empire for about 6,000 years. Read some history. Roman legions? Persian Empire? Mongul invasions?
There ain’t no “fetters.” They been bought.
What is the substitute system that satisfies the primal urge to have power over the things one creates?
Sounds like someone who has had the privilege to not have to fight to control the things he creates. Get back to me if you ever have the things you create so chronically ripped from you with no recourse that you go mad, like the majority of Americans.
"Sounds like someone who has had the privilege to not have to fight to control the things he creates."
I apologize about that comment. I was in a bad mood, but there is never a justification for an evidence-free accusation.
That said, I have run into plenty of people who came from money/stability/etc and higher who lived in huts etc. for months, and from that slice of time (still possessing an upper-class or upper-middle-class brain along with unbroken relationship escape hatches) claim to know what being homeless is like. But I don't know you. May I ask how were you raised?
Getting back to the capitalism topic, if you care to:
"I disagree that having power over the things one creates is a primal human urge. / It's not about power over, it's about cooperation with. Striving for power over things is the basic problem with 'civilization' if that's what it is."
I still say maintaining "power over the things one creates", AND "cooperation with" other humans within one's social environment, AND (I'll add) conflict with other humans both inside (temporary) and outside (perpetual) one's social environment are, yes, natural human needs/instincts. I would say "Striving for power over" *other* peoples' creations is, instead, "the basic problem with 'civilization' " How else could Marx talk about "appropriation" of labor if he wasn't asserting that something the laborer created was being taken from him?
The problem with Marx, however, is from that, *then* he asserts a sweeping generalization of some kind of right to "common" ownership (in practice, always perpetually controlled by a vanguard!) -- a generalization plucked from his imagination that, IMO, quickly becomes far worse than that the capitalist version (which at least is "closer to the earth), and which has caused easily as much misery since 1917 as capitalism since the rise of heavy industrialization since early 19th century.
As a tangential note, I am *beyond skeptical* at this point in my life of all the things my "betters" (I don't mean you) have tried to tell me over the decades, from the religious to the government to the education establishments and beyond. Analogous to evangelical Christians' use of "WWJD" (What Would Jesus Do?) I have my own immediate, conscious reaction to EVERYTHING told to me that clashes with my experience: "WWIBT" (Why Would I Believe That?) Thus I have less-than-zero respect for authorities ipso facto, which is quite different from my younger stupid days several decades ago, and, apparently, *especially* quite different from most "normal" people today.
In the US, the reality of the Uniparty plays out in our fake 2-party system…the Dems just put a softer face on their vicious and, ultimately, sadistic capitalism.
I'm glad you think it could go either way. Most days I am more pessimistic than that. However, with all of my generation and the next at or nearing the age of death, there may be some hope for the young.
Meh, Boomers fought back, activists to the core, many of us. Liberation of people into real power, and respect for the natural world. Sure, some were coopted, suited up and joined daddy's business. Nothing like that fiery spirit has shown up (yet) and it really needs to -- we can't afford the false hope or optimism. We have to nurture this in the later gens, only with sanity and strength, as the current political sway is fragility and hurt feelers.
Boomers fought back to the best of their ability but the young people today are also fighting back. I go to demos every week and there are plenty of young people as well as quite a few older people at the demos. So far, the police have been more restrained where I live. Let's hope that keeps up.
Same here. I'm about to go to a July 4th demo at a downtown food festival area... Let's see how that goes. Standing on a corner while cars drive by and people honk in support or yell not-so-nice things out their windows is one thing, but being on the ground face to face in a pedestrian mall filled with food trucks and fireworks?
good luck
It went fairly well. One a-hole who told each of us personally "You're ignorant!" but that was the only one who wasn't polite.
It would have been great if that person had said something else impolite like zionists are assholes.
I doubt it. We're at war with Russia whoseleader is actually smart.
Love your view on the world 😘
Narratives shape how people perceive and think about material reality, but in the end they don't change material reality itself. In the end, the latter always bites everyone on the ass.
I think it's time to accept a challenge from one of my subscribers and write a discourse on philosophical idealism vs. philosophical materialism. We are dominated by idealists who believe the world works in the way that they want it to, but it doesn't, so they try to force it into submission. This approach never has worked forever and it never will.
>>"but in the end they don't change material reality itself"
What exactly do you mean by that (i.e. what material reality are you talking of that doesn't change?)
Narratives change what people believe and think. What people think changes how people act and behave. How people act and the actions they take change reality (for themselves and others).
That’s a very good question and I cannot sufficiently answer it in a note. It will take a post of its own. If you do me the courtesy of looking for it, I hope to get it out this weekend, or maybe Monday.
What would it mean for "idealists" - I assume some humans - to go along with "how the world works"? And does it mean that current "non-idealists" do it already?
Actually, who knows how the world works in order to right the humanity?
More good questions. I’ll be writing a post on the two major schools of philosophical thought, upon which all of our ideologies and religions are ultimately based. IMHO, of course.
Neither metaphysical view has been conclusively proven however. One would hope your article would include that the mystery of why reality even exists, or what is consciousness, still remains a mystery, philosophically and scientifically. It is true philosophical materialism is the dominate narrative of our milieu at the moment, but reductive materialism still only remains a mythological narrative - like all other mythological narratives of past human epochs.
Thank you Caitlin🙏
Absolutely true . . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJz6hOUhy0I
There are much better and more altruistic narratives that would serve the world and its inhabitants so much better than the narratives we live by now.
Yes, though the people in power (through most of history) tend to employ those narratives that maintain the status quo and enable them to remain in power.
In a world dominated by print and electronic media (aka social media, etc.), our sense of reality is increasingly structured by narratives. Feature films and documentaries tell us stories about ourselves and the world we live in. Television speaks back to us and offers us ‘reality’ in the form of hyperbole and parody. Print journalism turns daily life into a story. Advertisements narrativise our fantasies and desires. And social media creates (and propagates through virality) its own unique blend of narratives.
As long as human beings have had the power of speech, they have been speaking in narratives, goes the theory. Yet there is nothing natural or universal about our "present" narratives, which are a form of representation. As such, it is historically and culturally positioned to turn information and events into structures that are already meaningful to their audiences. Since the media are now the major controllers of narrative production and consumption in the Western world, the stories that seem the most ‘natural’ are the ones to which the media have accustomed us.
Humans have been ruled/managed/controlled by narratives since time immemorial. The real struggle (IMHO) is - "how do those people that lack power (the 99%) take control of the narrative and make their narratives ubiquitous and be able to fight back against the narratives of those in power?"
That's the big question, alright.
Even the term 'the 99%' challenges the mainstream narrative, and it's a good start to more well rounded narratives that support us.
Both the ongoing genocide, other wars and the environmental mess we find ourselves in are creating new and more life supporting narratives, I think.
Narratives and Myths…and the non discerning mind scoops it up hook, line and sinker
Critical thinking skills should be taught in every grade K-12 but why on earth would they want to do that. POWER TO THE PEOPLE not the sheeple. Bahhah 🐑
>>"Critical thinking skills should be taught in every grade K-12"
EXACTLY!
Teaching Critical Thinking skills and Media Literacy are 2 of the most important factors (IMHO) that should be focused on in an effort to escape/break-out-of the brainwashing and gaslighting narratives that seem to have been standardized in our societies and cultures.
But as you say, why would those in power want to do that?
Human beings are self - domesticated herd animals that prefer safety to freedom; hiding in the herd is the safest defense mechanism. When danger lurks, hide in the herd and run where they run; chances are the wolf will take someone else. And sheep follow the lead sheep, they like fences, and they never understand that the Shepard is the one who fleeces the herd, butchers the lamb, culls the herd, and dines on mutton. If we are honest, we need to accept that we are a vast minority among 330 million Americans, and that the vast majority of people prefer to live in safe myths, reassuring narratives, and psychological safety. And also, that we are largely takers’ rather than ‘narratives makers’.
>>"the vast majority of people prefer to live in safe myths, reassuring narratives, and psychological safety."
Very, very TRUE! Based on this understanding, I don't see a solution to the "narrative" (and propaganda) problems. Are we doomed to living in our present systems and unable to change them for the better? Is there any (realistic) way to fight back against the "narrative makers"? I'm desperately searching for hope to alternatives, but am unable to find one. (Is the problem with me for not trying hard enough to find alternatives/hope? or is the problem that we are caught in a vice-like grip under the systems, institutions, and organizations of the "narrative makers" and unable to effectively break free of them?)
"This Civilization Is Deeply Unnatural"
I wouldn't use the word "unnatural" -- because, well-arguably, what exists is what is natural -- but it IS now clearly regressive for the difficult balancing act of civilization, deeply unhealthy for huge populations.
"[W]e ... think, speak, act, work, spend and vote in ways we would never otherwise would"
What are these realistically possible ways that we "never otherwise would"? Where have these ways been stable in large populations? What we have now is, really, what we've always had in terms of anti-social behavior. What's unprecedented is only the technology surrounding them.
"The believed thought stories in our minds are what drive us to hate, abuse, harm and kill our fellow humans. ... / ... we’ve all agreed to believe a bunch of made-up narratives saying that these [stories] are true."
As it always has been.
Regarding stories, establishment guru Yuval Noah Harari had/has something to say on the wonders of "made-up things", see eg "Sapiens". But I've not seen him make any moral distinction therein between the value of two types of mental objects: (A) those *imposed* by secretive individuals/groups (e.g. monarchy myths; COVID behavioral protocols) on the one hand, and (B) public *tentative* proposals for agreement (e.g. the US Constitution; the Occupy decision-making protocols) on the other. Ignoring that distinction is a problem.
Against the sociopaths running things, we need to up our game -- and badly. You may have already noticed that it's not enough to (try to) shame people with no scruples.
A patriarchal thought process cannot fix patriarchy anymore than the teeth can bite themselves. Try truly thinking outside the box, not just fiddling with distinctions without a difference.
Where is the patriarchal thought here? How is it distinguished from a non-patriarchal thought?
You’d have to educate yourself. You just want to argue. Classic pointless defensive positioning.
Nonsense. You came here to respond to me, but instead provide just a content stub with an bottomless pointer. As a sales pitch, it is a failure. Stubs with pointers make no sense between equals in a public forum. They are rhetorical tricks. Either have a dialogue with me, or admit you are unwilling.
Another reason your second post here is silly is that I can make precisely the same point to you, that you show no evidence of understanding what I said in my first post about nature and stories. Should I just point you to Western philosophy and history, and tell you to educate yourself? It seems to me just as necessary for you, but I would be contemptibly lazy to rely on that wave of the hand.
"but instead provide just a content stub with an bottomless pointer."
Good one!
Sad
Complaints about patriarchy (and plenty of other things still alien to the existing Western culture) have been nurtured almost solely in academic environment. These and other woke complaints have sprung fully-formed onto the wider adult public (who are primarily engaged in productive things other than getting "juiced in it"), yet woke "conclusions" rammed through by hook and by crook by woke "experts" untested in the wider marketplace of ideas.
This is clearly by malevolent design, just as it was, for example, in Mao's brilliant power creation of the Cultural Revolution to counter critics in the Communist Party using his young Red Guards. Rather than incorporate the society at large for this proposed development in wisdom, instead student armies sprung forth with their high energy and low wisdom. The Cultural Revolution was, as history shows, an unmitigated disaster.
So sad.
OK so how do we wake the masses up? We are at a tipping point but most seem to be focused on nothing other than their survival…they have us right where they want us…until they don’t.
We need leadership. In the 60s, and 70s the leaderships came from our communist Khazars in the media and Hollywood. They use to say if you see a military guy in uniform SPIT ON HIM? Who is going to tell us when some clerk in a store demand that you put mask on to SPIT ON HIM?
narrative,"... you're soaking in it !"
Modern civilization is like a cancer, in which everything depends on the next dose of sugar for the population...Long term thinking has practically disappeared, and most leaders are simply puppets for the super wealthy, who despite having more money than they could ever spend, will do anything to keep the grift going...The West is in the looting phase of societal collapse, complete with ultra low birth rates and un-payable debt, which contends to expand exponentially...Get out of the cities and find a place where your family might survive....
I whisper, thank you. Stunned I’m not alone in despair.
Interesting. What would it look like? Would we just go back to how we were thousands of years ago?
"What would it look like? Would we just go back to how we were thousands of years ago?"
Not me. Much less than a thousand years ago, life was brutish and short. The best answer is not to allow rapaciousness and megalomania.
How about to the turn of the 20th century, Gregor? It isn’t the Amish who are creating climate change and waging wars.
I could happily be Amish if not for the religious thing and dress code. Horse-drawn transportation? Producing all one’s own food? The sense of community? Love it!
No electricity however. No access to the internet.
The Amish are allowed the use of generators. As for the internet, most Amish own smartphones.
When my in-laws owned a vacation home in Northern Michigan, we observed the large Amish population there. Besides the lack of electrical wires leading to their farms, one could spot an Amish farm instantly; they were the most beautiful and well-kept. We used to love to see the men harvesting hay by hand. And if one passed a horse-drawn vehicle on the road, the driver invariably tipped his hat to each and every driver he encountered. Lovely, lovely people🥰
Citation.
It wouldn't make any difference. It's the nature of the homo-sapiens to proclaim itself a "ruler of everything living or not" "God's image" ...or more like a "Apex predator." Read the most devastating book I ever read, Paradise Lost by Steve Nicchols. We aren't any different.
I didn't read the book, but, man, I saw the movie, and it was horrific. At least when Errol Morris's "The Thin Blue LIne," came out, we could go directly to the lobby and sign a peition to free Randall Dale Adams Eventually we were successful. For the guys in Paradise Lost, there was never anything we could do to help them.
Many thousands of years. Going back only a few would not be of any value. These current narratives likely began after the Agricultural Revolution, and does that have a lot to answer for.
In many tribal societies intra-tribal violence was common and 10% to 25% of males died in violent confrontation. Never before have so many lived so free of violence as today. Even the war in Ukraine, horrific as it is, is but a shadow of the 40 million souls that died in the 6 years of WWII.