Nothing drastic will happen. Just as it didn't happen after Vietnam and Iraq, (in Iraq, where they acknowledged deaths of the hundreds of thousands of children in Iraq, before one bomb fell.) The untold suffering of Cubans and Venezuelans under the harshest of embargoes deliberately targeted to harm the civilian population. Americans are already suffering from the mental disease, the corruption of greed, materialism, isolation from one another, low trust society, crime, opioid endemic, obesity, and ignorance! They are in their own kind of hell already.
Disagree. Most Americans do not know what has been and is being done in their name. I was at a family event. The relatively new wife of one of my cousins with dual citizenship - was there and made a comment about ??? America ??? helping people around the world. I started to provide a bit more of a balanced perspective on American foreign policy and my cousin - a very patriarchal male - cut me off. Another cousin whose father went to university in the USA on football scholarships - married and stayed there. We always holidayed with them at least 1x/summer. All are university educated. They were 'up' in Canada - and something came up. I said something and this cousin looked at me in horror - and said I didnt realize Canadians were so anti-American this close to the border. I said we arent anti-American given most of us have lots of family south of our border - we are anti - imperialist. Another time when I was in the USA at a family event, a friend of a cousin got me aside - and quite emotionally asked if his country is a bully, essentially an imperial nation. He said they only get news about how they are helping the world and are great - yet he hears there is so much 'anti-American' feeling in the world. The USA has probably the most effective and clever propaganda system in the world.
Chilling --- this scared the sleep demons from my barely open eyes. Here's my back-at-you suggestion for all citizens of Israel, courtesy of the Nazis at Dachau and Auschwitz: ARBEIT MACHT FREI, works makes one free. Henceforth, when the shooting and bombing finally ceases, you Israelis will heft those pick and shovels and use those chosen-people muscles to dig bodies from the Gaza rubble, ensure their burial, and ultimately begin rebuilding Palestinian housing. No gloves, puppies, we wannna see those hands bleed as callouses develop. If the ICC, ICJ and UN have any teeth at all (Bwa ha ha ha), this should be meted out as retribution.
How dare you prefer critical thinking to religious indoctrination. As a Catholic who fell away from that pile of brainwashing when I was around 15, I join you in becoming targets for whatever censors would like to mute those of us who demur from mindlessly following standard narratives of any sort.
Ancient Greece , (very) Early Catholic Europe and Classical Islam were all 3 very keen on Reason , Mathematics , Logic . Interestingly many of their greatest scholars got into trouble with the powers that were around at the time - expressed very clearly by the Mediaeval Church in its attempts to control all thought . Not just mediaeval of course - I know some born-again Christians who believe the Universe was created in 7 days .
They certainly gored Galileo. A great example of labeling scientific hypothesis based on data (Copernicus) as misinformation coming back to haunt them. A little lesson for the modern rabid censors.
Militant atheists tend to have an infantile view of proper religions as in "if God exists why didn't he intervene" etc. The levels are so misaligned that it's mostly futile to try to reason.
Being a Roman Catholic Christian of the Catholic Social Justice tradition - we are taught and believe 'The Divine' works through us as well as all of God's Creation. Also - we are to work to realize 'God's Domaine on Earth' for all God's Creation here not just wait for an afterlife. So with respect - I disagree with your approach.
I am not sure if you are disagreeing with me or others who might be described as more 'quietist' . Everything we do depends on God but we Muslims are by no means called to do nothing in response to evil !
Would you not entertain the idea that it was not Roman Catholicism per se but particular people that were in position to represent it and apparently failed?
Intellectually, I should hope against this outcome as a potential prelude to wider war, but honestly, gypsy, it's such a great image that I can't help but revel in it: well-dressed wealthy Israelis in their best finery smeared with dirt, mud and human remains with dessicated mouths and lined faces, breathing heavily as Iranian soldiers hover over them with Russian automatic weapons, shouting, "keep digging Zionist scum, no water until we say you're finished".
Yes I too am seduced by the image - but wish I were a better person ! At least in Islam I was taught that forgiveness cannot be granted ON BEHALF of the victim !
Quite true. To conceive of retributive arbeit as depraved as the initial evil requires becoming as evil as the perpetrators, and I try to delude myself into believing I'm incapable of stooping that low.
A nice thought - but a lot of work before that will happen - even if USA/Israel lose this horrid war. Trump and Netanyahu already have plans for rebuilding Gaza once ethnically cleansed. Didnt you hear Trump? He wants to build a place on Gaza's Mediterranean coast!
Even before Trump, Jared Kushner, who's really the biggest thorn in the side of anyone hoping for even a slight alteration in policy. I have no illusions about the immediate future, only hazy visions of what justice might look like. It's definitely no cause for optimism.
It’s not Trump who has been in office for this entire catastrophe, who fueled the fire with bombs and ships and manpower. It’s the Death State of Biden and his cronies. The smell of corpses is the stink of America’s great export, ‘the horrors of war’.
You mean the rotting anti-Semitic baby human shields who voted for Hamas? The hateful creatures were born wanting to kill heroic, democratic, peace-loving Israelis.
Let’s just suck down our lattes and savor our gourmet propaganda mush. Don’t mind the stench of our dying souls and disintegrating society. We are blessed to live in the greatest country on earth. Let’s make it a great day!
So the Palestinian babies are antisemitic? Yeah I understand defending IT is tough and you are desperate but take a time out and read what you just ranted.
Democratic peace loving Israelis? What a pathetic lie. What the world has witnessed for more than a year is the culmination of a slow motion genocide since before the founding of this so called country with no declared borders. Present day Israelis, not only Netanyahu government, are complicit in the continuation of what Haganah, Lehi and Stern terrorists unleashed on the Palestinians. These terrorists later became the most immoral army aka IDF.
It sounded like satire to me. But perhaps there are those who believe that, so I may be wrong in my interpretation. Satire is something that needs a society with a sense of proportion in order to do its job of shocking the conscience.
But it is something to at least try. Tragically, only one third of Americans oppose this genocide. The rest are heartless or ignorant, due to the ferocious censorship and hasbara.
It’s true. The family went camping one year and my small cousin escorted everyone to the porta potty and she ended up smelling like it. We don’t let her live that down.
You can be as intelligent as John von Neumann and still be obliterated by a fusion bomb.
Unfortunately, humankind has always progressed at a donkey slow pace. It does not mean ancient civilizations with nuclear technology would not have blown up the world - they probably would have. But it does mean we are now at a critical juncture, and the human race must grow up, and find the necessary wisdom and compassion needed to move forward. Or the human experiment ends.
With respect I have been hearing that same message since the late 1950s but the world has not died from new diseases , nuclear fallout or chemical/biological toxic waste yet . This probably induces a false sense of security .
I am not of the opinion that the species as a whole has not progressed, including its instinctual unconscious aspects. There has been some progress, but the opposite is something you often hear repeated from the reductive materialists (which I am not implying that is your belief, but I am reminded of), who also insist consciousness can be reproducible in an electrical machination - even though they themselves usually have incredibly little understanding of the human psyche. Their faith in all things reductive, can also probably induce a false sense of security (and wisdom).
Yeah second most brainwashed country after Israel. I was in Eastern Europe during the totalitarian period. No one bought into it. Everyone knew it was a scam. Ive always thought Americans were way more deluded.
Nothing drastic will happen. Just as it didn't happen after Vietnam and Iraq, (in Iraq, where they acknowledged deaths of the hundreds of thousands of children in Iraq, before one bomb fell.) The untold suffering of Cubans and Venezuelans under the harshest of embargoes deliberately targeted to harm the civilian population. Americans are already suffering from the mental disease, the corruption of greed, materialism, isolation from one another, low trust society, crime, opioid endemic, obesity, and ignorance! They are in their own kind of hell already.
Disagree. Most Americans do not know what has been and is being done in their name. I was at a family event. The relatively new wife of one of my cousins with dual citizenship - was there and made a comment about ??? America ??? helping people around the world. I started to provide a bit more of a balanced perspective on American foreign policy and my cousin - a very patriarchal male - cut me off. Another cousin whose father went to university in the USA on football scholarships - married and stayed there. We always holidayed with them at least 1x/summer. All are university educated. They were 'up' in Canada - and something came up. I said something and this cousin looked at me in horror - and said I didnt realize Canadians were so anti-American this close to the border. I said we arent anti-American given most of us have lots of family south of our border - we are anti - imperialist. Another time when I was in the USA at a family event, a friend of a cousin got me aside - and quite emotionally asked if his country is a bully, essentially an imperial nation. He said they only get news about how they are helping the world and are great - yet he hears there is so much 'anti-American' feeling in the world. The USA has probably the most effective and clever propaganda system in the world.
the anecdotes seem to indicate that they do know, though.
A Hell entirely of their own making I might add
I just pray their younger generations coming through don't follow the footsteps of their older ones (the inhumane ones)
In all honesty, America has all the tools and means to become heaven on Earth but for a select few Greedy Souls sucking them dry
It is a Hell entirely of the making of the Israelis and the savages who support them.
sickening, while we spew words like democracy and decency, and lawful world order.
" tell a lie, and tell it often enough...."
Hell isn’t down.
It’s all around us.
Absolutely. Hell is what human egos have made of the present moment.
"Hell is empty and all the devils are here."
Indeed
Chilling --- this scared the sleep demons from my barely open eyes. Here's my back-at-you suggestion for all citizens of Israel, courtesy of the Nazis at Dachau and Auschwitz: ARBEIT MACHT FREI, works makes one free. Henceforth, when the shooting and bombing finally ceases, you Israelis will heft those pick and shovels and use those chosen-people muscles to dig bodies from the Gaza rubble, ensure their burial, and ultimately begin rebuilding Palestinian housing. No gloves, puppies, we wannna see those hands bleed as callouses develop. If the ICC, ICJ and UN have any teeth at all (Bwa ha ha ha), this should be meted out as retribution.
It will never happen .
Naturally. I'm dreaming a pleasant dream of justice, of which, really, there ain't none.
I had to give you two likes for this one. In this cynical world legal has replace justice and legal is what ever the try to ram down our throats.
Rukshana, it will if Iranian soldiers hold guns on them!
Will they ? I don't know much about Iran nowadays . My name is Persian but I am the wrong kind of Muslim - I rather think !
Justice ultimately depends on God , not human beings and so is still possible !
How dare you prefer critical thinking to religious indoctrination. As a Catholic who fell away from that pile of brainwashing when I was around 15, I join you in becoming targets for whatever censors would like to mute those of us who demur from mindlessly following standard narratives of any sort.
Ancient Greece , (very) Early Catholic Europe and Classical Islam were all 3 very keen on Reason , Mathematics , Logic . Interestingly many of their greatest scholars got into trouble with the powers that were around at the time - expressed very clearly by the Mediaeval Church in its attempts to control all thought . Not just mediaeval of course - I know some born-again Christians who believe the Universe was created in 7 days .
They certainly gored Galileo. A great example of labeling scientific hypothesis based on data (Copernicus) as misinformation coming back to haunt them. A little lesson for the modern rabid censors.
Militant atheists tend to have an infantile view of proper religions as in "if God exists why didn't he intervene" etc. The levels are so misaligned that it's mostly futile to try to reason.
🙂
Being a Roman Catholic Christian of the Catholic Social Justice tradition - we are taught and believe 'The Divine' works through us as well as all of God's Creation. Also - we are to work to realize 'God's Domaine on Earth' for all God's Creation here not just wait for an afterlife. So with respect - I disagree with your approach.
I am not sure if you are disagreeing with me or others who might be described as more 'quietist' . Everything we do depends on God but we Muslims are by no means called to do nothing in response to evil !
With respect, you and I have had radically different experiences of Roman Catholicism. I'll leave it at that.
Would you not entertain the idea that it was not Roman Catholicism per se but particular people that were in position to represent it and apparently failed?
Intellectually, I should hope against this outcome as a potential prelude to wider war, but honestly, gypsy, it's such a great image that I can't help but revel in it: well-dressed wealthy Israelis in their best finery smeared with dirt, mud and human remains with dessicated mouths and lined faces, breathing heavily as Iranian soldiers hover over them with Russian automatic weapons, shouting, "keep digging Zionist scum, no water until we say you're finished".
Yes I too am seduced by the image - but wish I were a better person ! At least in Islam I was taught that forgiveness cannot be granted ON BEHALF of the victim !
It's all so terribly tragic.
Great idea. One could only hope for such a retribution, although incomparable to the evil perpetrated.
Quite true. To conceive of retributive arbeit as depraved as the initial evil requires becoming as evil as the perpetrators, and I try to delude myself into believing I'm incapable of stooping that low.
A nice thought - but a lot of work before that will happen - even if USA/Israel lose this horrid war. Trump and Netanyahu already have plans for rebuilding Gaza once ethnically cleansed. Didnt you hear Trump? He wants to build a place on Gaza's Mediterranean coast!
Even before Trump, Jared Kushner, who's really the biggest thorn in the side of anyone hoping for even a slight alteration in policy. I have no illusions about the immediate future, only hazy visions of what justice might look like. It's definitely no cause for optimism.
It’s not Trump who has been in office for this entire catastrophe, who fueled the fire with bombs and ships and manpower. It’s the Death State of Biden and his cronies. The smell of corpses is the stink of America’s great export, ‘the horrors of war’.
And it remains to be seen what Trump will do about it. I'm not optimistic.
"Gaza smells like rotting corpses, and
our whole civilization smells like Gaza."
Kali Yuga indeed.
Curse on Zionism
PERFECT POST
If I can only decrease one Gazan's suffering a little bit, it's the least I can do. My conversations 25-year-old Shaima: https://open.substack.com/pub/zoemagnes/p/if-my-family-and-i-do-not-die-from
You mean the rotting anti-Semitic baby human shields who voted for Hamas? The hateful creatures were born wanting to kill heroic, democratic, peace-loving Israelis.
Let’s just suck down our lattes and savor our gourmet propaganda mush. Don’t mind the stench of our dying souls and disintegrating society. We are blessed to live in the greatest country on earth. Let’s make it a great day!
So the Palestinian babies are antisemitic? Yeah I understand defending IT is tough and you are desperate but take a time out and read what you just ranted.
Democratic peace loving Israelis? What a pathetic lie. What the world has witnessed for more than a year is the culmination of a slow motion genocide since before the founding of this so called country with no declared borders. Present day Israelis, not only Netanyahu government, are complicit in the continuation of what Haganah, Lehi and Stern terrorists unleashed on the Palestinians. These terrorists later became the most immoral army aka IDF.
It sounded like satire to me. But perhaps there are those who believe that, so I may be wrong in my interpretation. Satire is something that needs a society with a sense of proportion in order to do its job of shocking the conscience.
Sounded like satire to me as well. But I had to read it twice to make sure.
more like sarcasm..., but i'm glad some people still recognize these things. like irony, they're going extinct.
Sarcasm, my friend. Sorry it wasn’t that obvious.
I thought it was very effective, old mate! Lay it on a bit thicker next time just to make sure.
Support Sen. Sanders six resolutions to block arms to Israel. To be voted on on Nov. 12 or soon after.
Send letter through actionnetwork below and call them.
https://actionnetwork.org/letters/a28047ce6db6ad3262aa6c713d80385067767ed1
But it is something to at least try. Tragically, only one third of Americans oppose this genocide. The rest are heartless or ignorant, due to the ferocious censorship and hasbara.
indeed, tick the box.
I don't think it will help either.
doesn't matter, i'd suggest to tick it anyway.
Unless and until it is them and theirs, most humans are delighted to have the whip hand.
As my grandfather used to tell me "If you hang around the shit pile you'll end up smelling like it. Great job again ( as usual?) caitlin.
It’s true. The family went camping one year and my small cousin escorted everyone to the porta potty and she ended up smelling like it. We don’t let her live that down.
😀
To most Americans, the air in Gaza "smells like Victory!"
Wow. So horrifying, but true.
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20241107-31-of-americans-say-support-for-israel-is-too-strong-survey-finds/
Thank You Caitlin
Bizarre the fate of the entire world may rest now on whom a 78 year old showman will choose for his white house cabinet. And it isn't looking good.
No jamenta, It isn't looking good. From the depths of the internet, I heard someone say:
"...... Never was stupidity so nasty; nastiness so stupid.... " .
When asked how fascism starts, Bertrand Russell replied: "First, they fascinate the fools. Then they muzzle the intelligent."
Thanks jamenta. Dare to disagree with Bertrand Russell. They are not intelligent if they allow themselves to be muzzled.
Wisdom and compassion has got to go together.
You can be as intelligent as John von Neumann and still be obliterated by a fusion bomb.
Unfortunately, humankind has always progressed at a donkey slow pace. It does not mean ancient civilizations with nuclear technology would not have blown up the world - they probably would have. But it does mean we are now at a critical juncture, and the human race must grow up, and find the necessary wisdom and compassion needed to move forward. Or the human experiment ends.
With respect I have been hearing that same message since the late 1950s but the world has not died from new diseases , nuclear fallout or chemical/biological toxic waste yet . This probably induces a false sense of security .
I am not of the opinion that the species as a whole has not progressed, including its instinctual unconscious aspects. There has been some progress, but the opposite is something you often hear repeated from the reductive materialists (which I am not implying that is your belief, but I am reminded of), who also insist consciousness can be reproducible in an electrical machination - even though they themselves usually have incredibly little understanding of the human psyche. Their faith in all things reductive, can also probably induce a false sense of security (and wisdom).
Yeah second most brainwashed country after Israel. I was in Eastern Europe during the totalitarian period. No one bought into it. Everyone knew it was a scam. Ive always thought Americans were way more deluded.