352 Comments
Jun 8·edited Jun 9

Thanks Caitlin.

Israel is a total sham. Always has been.

With the acceptance of it as a country…sorry…corrupted state, thanks to the Zionists in Britain, it was brought and paid for by European bankers a long time ago. It was always going to be a thorn in the side of all countries and has proven that time and again, this latest genocidal activity a perfect illustration of the mentality of the government, being fully supported by the people, right across the board.

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Ah !, but who set up the so called ME Countries as we know them now ---- AS WELL ?.

The World we see now is all a stage; all smoke and mirrors.

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So are you trying to say that no Arab country is actually a country so why not add another fake one to the mix?? Signed and sealed by the Brits? Is that the logic you’re putting forward?

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Have you even been there ? You are obviously someone’s puppet who spouts their dogma And you also show zero tolerance for any other viewpoint than your own And you call yourself a writer? As FDR said ‘horseshit’

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Have I been where? And when did I say I was a writer? And whose puppet am I supposed to be? Just someone’s puppet?? What are you talking about?!

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I thought she was talking about Johnstone, not you.

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India, Bangladesh and Pakistan.... do you know the history in how they were created ?.

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You are great at sarcasm. Not too sure about your logic thought

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Am I losing the plot of what ?.

Is this a US substack ?, because so many have no idea of HISTORY.

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Bob, did any other ME country or India or Pakistan resurrect a dead language as their national language? Invent or steal their cultural dishes? Nope.

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I think what our history buff, Bob is trying to say is that, as a historian, he sees no problem with European jews migrating from another continent, occupying an already settled land, kicking out/murdering /pillaging its native inhabitants and declaring that their god said it was ok to do so.. oh, and also, the Arab countries are all fake, too.. why not create a fake one called Israel? Except for the tiny fact that the people living in those ‘fake’ Arab countries were not fake. You didn’t have to get a talent scout to go and look for them.. they happened to be right there, Bob! In the flesh!

The next show stopper that our said historian is going to throw out there is: what about the European settlers that came to the new world? Are you asking to throw them out?? Then he drops his a-bomb and accuses everyone of being American, the mother of all insults!! Why he couldn’t just come out and say he has no problem with jews taking over Palestine and kicking out the Palestinians is beyond me..

P.s. your love of history is undermined by the crappy links that you sent.. I guess you’re the American by thinking that doing a 10 second internet search bolsters your otherwise weak argument..

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Urdu is the national language and lingua franca of Pakistan. Although only about 7% of Pakistanis speak Urdu as their first language, it is widely spoken and understood as a second language by the vast majority of Pakistanis. Urdu is taught as a compulsory subject up to higher secondary school in both English and Urdu medium school systems, which has produced millions of second-language Urdu speakers among people whose native language is one of the other languages of Pakistan.

Nobody is saying they all have the same attributes or whatever; they were created for a reason.

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The state is war. What's new about that? Israel did not invent tribal politics; its founders adapted what was already around them to what they perceived to be their interests. Apparently they learned well, although at a high price.

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Think you missed my point.

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She did, because it was the same folks, between and including the first and second world wars.

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Yep.

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Thanks - subscribe to GR.ca as it one my favourites.

PS Same thing happened in Ukraine with these globalist parasitical elitist scum in the so called "West" - no peace, only war..

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💯

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LOL, I think maybe you're human. I certainly can't say that about some of the bots that I've had a dinner with. Really ! So nice.

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This is another rabidly racist hate theory, yep, the all powerful Jews control everyone, sure.

Go f urselves.

Do you ever get tired of being racists? Whether ur attacking Jews or ensuring voting rights weren't defended?

This crap about Eisenhower... grab. Not every situation is identical, even if similar.

So, let's just say, you hate Jews more than you care about Palestinians, much less giving a damn about Black Americans or Latinos. How exactly do you lionize a president who was, I think, overall a good president, but nonetheless allowed Joseph McCarthy to run roughshod over Constitutional rights and destroy lives, who ALSO had a mass deportation program targeting Mexican migrants called, Operation W--back?

You're one issue voters, or targeting them, I guess. You see America as controlled by thejews apparently, and evil, blah blah. Don't care about any Americans. So, why not just leave? Europe desperately needs immigrants. Imagine if all the white people who hate America just went home, back where you came from, how great that would be?

Bye bye, now.

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You are absolutely correct. After the world wars how can anyone argue most of the countries in the world were authentic.

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How did this happen? Who was not paying attention?

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Jenny, people were paying attention. The evidence is in the sophisticated arguments from the Palestinian leadership directed to Herzl and the Zionist leadership before the latter began arriving en masse in Palestine (Rashid Khalidi’s outstanding book,“Hundred Years’ War on Palestine”, has the actual letters — proving that the Palestinians saw this coming).

Unfortunately, unlike India that was able to throw off the British yoke, the yoke in Palestine passed from the Brits to the armed Zionist gangs to the thuggery of the Israel (empowered by its colonial backers).

In perfect irony, Israel has colonized snd now controls its masters.

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Jun 8·edited Jun 8

Interesting that you should use India and thuggery in the same sentence; thug was a name of an Indian political group that resisted British rule, British intelligence/ violence etcetera did an Israeli type genocidal number on them and narrative that essentially converted what would otherwise be the a sort of freedom fighter to what we know today as a negative term. Clever isn't it? That's why I tend to avoid the word in all its forms, because it's the equivalent of the "N" word, that has a similar meaning that was also created by a similar technique..

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More like than not; UK intelligence apparently was the real author of "the art of war" supposedly written by Sun Zu(something like that)

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Interesting, I didn't know those were the origins of thug. I thought the only word they stole was 'loot' (which means 'to steal' in Hindi). I figured they were too busy plundering the land that they only had time to steal one word!

Then again, they (James Mill in particular) fabricated large chunks of pre-1800 history of the Indian subcontinent to help paint project plunder as a benign and civilised endeavour so perhaps 'thug' better fits into the 'rewriting' category.

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Maybe also look at Jordon, Qatar, UAE an let us not forget Saudi Arabia etc etc...

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Talk to me when those countries control my government like Israel does.

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And mine in the UK. Think you people still miss the point ... Saudis hate the Israelis right and vice versa... BOTH COUNTRIES set up by the UK and US and their leaderships instated

THIS "CONFLICT" HAS BEEN PLANNED FOR DECADES...

My view only !.

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By 'country' you seem to mean something like "nation state".

Pointing out that Israel, like the surrounding states in the GME, is an invention of 19thC imperialism in order to cast doubt on the relevance of Israel as a "fake" country is a bogus bit of rhetorical sleight-of-hand.

If you want to look at "History", all the nation states in existence at this time are "invented". From the late 18thC on, as empires crumbled and reformulated, "peoples" started creating "nation states" and some of those nation states went on to create empires and as those empires crumbled in their turn, new "nation states" were created where previously there were only "peoples".

But not all invented nation states are the same, particularly in terms of their relative degrees of "artificiality".

Saudi Arabia, your poorly chosen example of your thesis that all these states were imperial creations, did not involve shipping millions of people from disparate regions of Europe and Central Asia to populate it.

The British imperial masters made a deal with the Saud family to hand over mastery in the area.

In the case of India and Pakistan, the British imperial masters threw a massive spanner into the works as they departed the region.

Partition was the extension of the imperialist application of "divide and conquer" as well as British theories of racial purity and ignorance of actual social history of the subcontinent.

None of these is remotely similar to the historical realities of the creation of Israel.

You might want to try familiarizing yourself with some history.

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59 likes for an anti-Semitic "the bankers did it" conspiracy theory, and all the Jews are in on it too.

Good job by you people. Getting your genocidal conspiracy justification arguments primed. When is kristallnacht USA planned for? You're well down the path to dehumanizing and attacking ur Jewish neighbors, like they did in 1938. What's the plan, Jozef?

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Extremely clever people with lots of money and a fake religion are hard to move once they have a strangle hold which is why I no longer believe that the USA is in charge.

Netanyahu comes to speak to Congress this fact should show anyone where the power now lies.

I find this terrifying.

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If you haven't yet read it, I recommend the 2-volume book "One Nation Under Blackmail", by the excellent Whitney Webb. Her work, along with plenty of available empirical evidence we can all see, has convinced me that Israel is indeed the tail wagging the dog, through its control of intelligence networks and technologies, as well as deep interconnection with organized crime. Through both blackmail and outright threats of violence, the evil psychopaths that have been in charge of Israel (and the US, actually) have maintained a firm grip on US foreign (and sometimes domestic) policy. It also seems clear to me that these freaks encourage antisemitism, because by conflating Israel and Zionism with the Jewish faith (an absolutely false and illegitimate equation), they believe they can gain more support for their cause by repeatedly playing the co-opted Holocaust card. All people with any real sense must recognize that, as many Jewish people (including notable rabbis) are taking pains to warn us, Zionism -- which, as Caitlin regularly points out in her pieces, has always been the driving principle of the Israeli state -- is the enemy of Judaism.

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I just heard a story about the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty (June 8, 1967).

https://history.state.gov/historicaldocuments/frus1964-68v19/d284

According to the story, LBJ was pissed off and leaked the intelligence reports to media (Newsweek?) Israeli's shut that down by blackmailing LBJ. At the time, Jewish voters were anti-Vietnam war. Israel promised to tone down any anti-war action and support LBJ in 1968 election if LBJ would bury the story. If he didn't they would bury him by mobilizing Jewish vote to oppose him. LBJ complied and the story was buried.

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Bill,

My advocacy for Palestine started because of the USS Liberty in 1967.

The attack by Israel was using French supplied and unmarked Mirage fighter planes using torpedos and heavy fire. An American aircraft carrier dispatched US aircraft to save the vessel but the Zionist President of the USA ordered that they do not attack and return to the carrier, which of course they did. The vessel, the ill-fated USS Liberty by this time having 32 deaths and so many more injured badly.

No apology to my knowledge to this day.

When you get a country by the throat you just keep up the pressure and it has paid off with 86% of the US houses of government totally subservient to the hated Israelis.

My long held theory theory is that this sly attack with a weak corrupted President was the turning point in Israel's understanding that they would eventually be able to manipulate the USA. Have they done it?

Totally

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Yes, the USS Liberty was attacked by Israel exactly 57 years ago. It is as relavent today as the fact that Abraham Lincoln suspended Habeas Corpus 181 years ago. Yugoslavia was destroyed by the USA in 1980 and Jeffrey Epstein was murdered just last year. Terrible things happened in the past. We should live in reality and in the present. Would you suggest we invade China because of Mao?

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I guess you missed the relevance for today of Israeli murder, lies and blackmail.

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You’re an idiot if you think that the past doesn’t influence/determine the present.

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I love 🤡They add laughter to the world.

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Wow, Caitlin travels in such esteemed circles.

Where the heck is my Jew power when it comes to my Greek landlord?

Oh, yeah, because you're all just a bunch of anti-Jewish racist loons who don't actually know anything about us.

Idiots.

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I heard a very different account of what happened to the USS Liberty and LBJ was an Israeli agent he turned the fleet away and he stated "I want that ship on the bottom"! Israel declared war on the US June of 67 after that attack. All these Zionist Nazis are committing treason by taking money from the Terrorist State of Israel who is at war against the USA!

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Netanyahu also threatened Clinton to bomb Iraq or they would release his affair with Monica. Clinton bombed Iraq, but the story got out anyway.

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Clinton became a made man, aka CIA tool, at Mena. He simply continued the Poppy Bush war via no-fly zones, occasional air strikes, and heinous sanctions. In much the same way, Obama, CIA tool, later covered for, and continued the Bush Crime Family Directives.

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A somewhat laborious read, but a real eye-opener, so ultimately worth the effort.

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Well said, as Blumenthal stated: "Zionism (cult) needs anti-semitism to justify its existence."

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Thanks for the Book recommendation. Sounds good.

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It is truely terrifying JennyStokes. Caitlin's article blew me away. She is prescient as she always is. It looks as if the Israeli project is far more sinister than a settler-colonial neoliberal capitalist one. On the surface it is the old colonial project of theft of land and resources - same as the last 500 years of colonialism. Morphing into (US/West) capitalism's growth imperative which is the main driver of conflicts in our world today. Israel is crucial to these capitalist interests. Hence the West's unquestioning support of Israel even through the most unspeakable terror.

It is now a whole new ball game - leading to where.... . With Israel setting the rules.

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Jun 8·edited Jun 8

The genocide of hundreds of millions of indigenous Americans was a tea party; was it? To us European invaders it most certainly was. I was so shocked when I landed in the Las Vegas/ Salt Lake City area and discovered how much hatred there is toward indigenous people. Just like Israeli hatred towards Palestinians.

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Anyone that challenges the occupiers' idea that they are the "original inhabitants" of the land they've stolen will be hated and despised. So whites in the Mountain West see the Native Peoples as a challenge to their mythology of finding an "empty land" to colonize. And so it goes in Palestine. You must kill all those "challengers" to your obsession to be seen as the original inhabitants of the land you've stolen.

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hundreds of millions?

Provide evidence.

Where were they all?

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Yes Indu. Where will it all lead? Money and a rabid so-called religion. Dangerous for all of us.

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As I said previously, the convergence of profits and prophets. Could anything be worse?

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The West is in a state of steady decline and when the US eventually implodes, Israel (assuming it is still extant) is done. The BRICs nations are ascendant under the leadership of China and Russia. It’s not difficult to see a Middle East with Iran as the regional hegemon.

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Indeed, everything about this illegitimate state is made up, as I wrote here:

https://palestinewillbefree.substack.com/p/israel-needs-a-humanitarian-intervention

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Israel may by phony but the misery and pain they instill is real. They have become a dystopian nightmare for the entire world. Even themselves.

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Unfortunately Susan I believe quite strongly that Zionism has a 'strangle hold' which will be almost impossible to untangle.

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Wait a week.

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Unleash the daemon already!

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So now you know bitch and that effing thing on the 13th floor.

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Hey bitch! It's coming; how did you like the sunken aircraft carrier? How did you enjoy the invasion of the Southern Border? Ready for more? It's all headed your effing way bitch!

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It is a rather difficult self replicating thought patterns, often rather contagious to other family members, social groups etcetera.

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I just got a close-up look at how this fakeness operates at the local level.

School board elections were coming up and I started seeing lots of signs around town advertising a particular candidate. The dad of my daughter’s friend was actively campaigning for her and recommended I vote for her. Keeping an open mind, I looked at her website — which stated she had no agenda — and I went to a “meet the candidates” event. At the event she said schools were for learning, not for political speech, and in one-on-one discussions defended Zionism. Then I read her long FAQ document and found it largely empty of real content, though it did express concern about a “rise of antisemitism” in schools.

It was clear to me that her campaign was relying on the typical political tricks of appearing to be all things to all people, promising solutions to problems without committing to what those solutions should be, and a well-funded campaign with plenty of nice looking signs and a glossy website complete with bipartisan endorsements. Of course, she won the election.

The organization backing her run has now admitted in a social media post that she was recruited specifically to beat a pro-Palestine candidate. Did our friends and neighbors know this? I strongly doubt it. I had figured it out, but it’s been made very difficult to bring up such things without sounding like a bigoted conspiracy theorist.

Now imagine this happening in localities all over the country.

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What you describe is scary! The only way I know of to combat such tactics is to encourage skeptistic thinking, questioning all narratives, and critical thinking. Unfortunately, in our busy rat-race social-status dominated culture/world people don't seem to have the time for such kind of thinking and reflection.

Oh, what is to become of us humans? Will we ever evolve past our easily hackable minds?

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It’s tricky. We have to teach our kids to question things and to think for themselves. And not give up! Even if we feel powerless to sway politicians at the national level, I learned from Niko Peled that the bread and butter of Zionism is action at the local level. They’ve been getting local public officials and organizations of every kind to make statements of unwavering support for Israel so that will seem like the normal default position. So we have to be ready and not let them get away with it. At the same time, with this livestreamed genocide and brazen admissions, they’re unraveling a lot their own work.

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I meant to say Miko Peled, Israeli anti-Zionist activist

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At the risk of repeating , we are the last of the hominids. This line of large-brained primates may be approaching the end of the evolutionary path. Let us not let that happen.

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The earth and all its splendor....better off without US!

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Maybe so. I prefer to think we can learn how to live in better harmony with all that splendour. That’s a good project for those of us, who see the need, to all be working on.

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SMH

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I totally agree about the statement "everything about Israel is fake" But I'd also say how could anyone fail to say everything about America is fake also. I'll give a few examples, the American economy, it's currency is backed by nothing, it's financial system is the biggest con job in the history of the world. What are derivatives & what purpose do they serve? What do they create? Do people have the slightest idea the how much money is supposed to exist in this financial hocus pocus? America can't function financially without adding more national debt annually. This is despite being the world's reserve currency. America has year on year financial deficits. The single reason the world as a whole doesn't reject the dollar today as the world's reserve is. It would result in the biggest collapse in the history of the world's financial system. Which would be thst big every single country would either collapse financially or be close to collapse. American financial wizardry is that ridiculous. The American military might, spare me the fan boys who believe all the BS about American weapons superiority. It's complete BS, can anyone name me a single conflict this military might has won on its own? , France even won the war if independence for America. The total fantasies wrote about America's military history is unbelievable except to Americans of course. Democracy 🤣😂🤣 I've just got to laugh. A corrupt Congress bought & paid for by legalized bribery (lobbyists) (aipac) many members holding dual citizenship. Trying to jail your main political opponent, because he'll win the election. An unelected alphabet agency controlling all foreign policy who will assassinate the elected President if he doesn't toe the line. If that's democracy Obama will be given the Nobel peace prize..... Oh wait a minute. Did I say America was false, let's talk about freedoms. I could mention Assange or the recent Scott Ritter episode. But the biggest thing for me are the American law enforcement, who's job it is to protect their public. A militarized private army of many psychopathic lunatics with guns is how I'd describe them. I've never seen anything like the behaviour of American policemen. What's with this bullshit about needing to see everyone's ID? What's that all about. In my country if a policemen asks anyone in the public to see their ID. The reply would be Why the f**k would I have my ID on me. Biggest prison population the lists go on & on. The media is just plain fantasy, there isn't a politician that can string 2 sentences of truth together. This greatest country in the planet is backward compared to most developed countries. The amount of citizens in poverty is massive. Infrastructure is a joke. It's going to take 10 years to rebuild a bridge that a ship went into. In China & many other countries over 1 year would be seen as a complete failure. America doesn't know what a high speed train line is. The education system is there to see for the whole world. Soon as they hear any American politician speak, they're embarrassing they're that stupid. Most of America's high tech industry was developed by foreign nationals. One thing America is really good at is marketing, because it involves filling people's heads full of bullshit. Even American food, 90% of it is illegal in the rest of the world. It's that full of crap. Anyone from America stating is false, really really needs to take a long hard look in the mirror. But make sure you've got your ID on you when you're doing it. No one is jealous of any freedoms & democracy American style. No one wants to attack America it's all fantasy & fear porn & the only country trying to rule the world is America. War crimes, illegal sanctions, illegal invasions & attacks, bribery, threatening countries. The lists go on & on. The worst of it is, it's not to long ago America was the greatest country in the world. Until everyone started to believe their own lies.

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That’s why America supports Israel.. both fake and both failing.. with de-dollarization going ahead, they won’t have all that money to splurge on buying off countries surrounding Israel as well as maintaining their expensive military bases. Once the dollar ceases to be the reserve currency it’s game over.. In the next hundred years there won’t be a Zionist state because, like Caitlin said, it’s an artificially propped up state and once the money runs out..

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I believe 100 years is not possible. I am trying to be objective and honestly cannot see this monster and ITS supporters lasting more than a couple years.

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Let’s hope you’re right..

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It won't take 100 years. Probably 10-20, max. The Israelis have doomed their apartheid state to extinction in a far more dramatic manner than the Afrikaners did. The reason is simple: American support for Israel will be withdrawn.

It is only a matter of time. It is inevitable. It is Israel's destiny. Israel can't last without massive outside support anymore than the Crusader Kingdom of Jerusalem could.

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I couldn't have said it better...

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Wow, what a litany of hard truths. Les Leopold's recent piece in Consortium News was excellent in laying out why Americans have lost faith in their government, even though it's painful for most of us to acknowledge that we don't produce anything in this country except rich executives.

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Damn, that was a fine piece of writing. Sadly, it will never hit the pages of the New York Times or the Washington Times.

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Truth never hits New York Times. No expectations no surprises. It’s a CIA mouthpiece.

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I think you're wrong there, maybe a year late, but it'll make the front pages.

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A clear sighted ,courageous and well written article on the psychopathic state of Israel!

The reason I call it psychopathic is because it's totally narcissistic and doesn't care and has no contrition about the inhumane and murderous actions that it's engaged in.

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We had a term for this type of thing back in the day: Plastic.

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To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize. The fakers are our foreign invaders. We all live in the United States of Israel now. Can you say...goy?

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But everyone here is criticizing Israel. Caitlin’s‘s article is blatantly antisemitic. How can you explain that given your statement?

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That word has been bastardised to high heaven by Israeli apologists. Does antisemitism now refer to any criticism of a racist apartheid terrorist colonial state?

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Amen.

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>>"Caitlin’s‘s article is blatantly antisemitic"

(1) ??? Can you point to even a single instance of where she has been anti-semitic? In fact, she has been supportive of Jews and Judaism throughout. But she does not support Zionism and Israel (and rightly so)!

(2) I'm beginning to understand that you do not understand what "anti-semitism" is (or have some twisted definition in your head). Here are some helpful hints:

(a) Don't conflate Zionism with Jews

(b) Don't conflate Zionism with Judaism

(c) Don't conflate semitism with Zionism (i.e. anti-Zionism IS NOT anti-semitism)

(d) Don't conflate semitism with Jews ONLY. Many Arabs are also Semites.

(e) Anti-Semitism is the term given to people that hate Jews JUST for being Jews. It should be called "anti-Jews" but unfortunately, the term "anti-semitism" has been co-opted (maybe for convenience or other reasons) to apply to "only Jews" instead of being applied to "ALL SEMITES".

(f) Don't conflate Israel with Judaism

(g) Don't conflate Israel with Jews

(h) Don't conflate Israel with Semites. Remember, Jews are a subset of Semites, and Israel is a subset of Jews.

(3) Why is being an anti-semite a bigger deal than being an Islamophobe or anti-Buddhist or anti-Hindu or anti-Christian? What is so special about Judaism that people think it deserves to be respected above and over all other religions? Is it the population size of Jews in the world (20 million)? So if there were 500 million or 1 billion Jews then anti-semitism would not matter in the same way? Do you know how many other religions/religious groups/religious sects there are in the world whose adherents are/have been treated worse than modern Jews? Where is the respect for all these other marginalized communities?

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Chang-Excellent reply. You get it.

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Brother mark Hovde or whatever his name might be is a hasbara keyboard monkey . Ignore IGNORE Ignore is the message. Don’t wast your times on these paid Israeli shills. They are all over the net on stack, on YouTube , Reddit , Instagram you name it , doing their best making it look like there’s actually real people supporting Israhel.

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No, Craig, I'm real. I joined this discussion because I was receiving my news about Oct 7th from conventional sources and I was quite surprised to learn of the support of some for the Hamas side. I wanted to understand why I don't align with them. Different news channels, different fundamental assumptions, different use of words? On the last point I have interacted with Chang, above, Caitlin herself, and others on this board. I don't agree with most on here but have learned from the discussion. I found Caitlin's essay on giving New York to the Mormons to be thought provoking.

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Will try to respond to Chang with care for points about language above.

The text is antisemitic by implying that support for Israel is not genuine but rather a result of manipulation by powerful forces, echoing harmful stereotypes about Jewish influence and control. It dismisses the diverse and legitimate reasons people may have for supporting Israel, including family ties, personal convictions, cultural affinity, and ethical considerations (holocaust, pogroms), and it delegitimizes Jewish self-determination by trivializing Zionism as a "dopey political ideology."

I have absolutely no problem with anyone discussing Israeli policies, and pointing out where they disagree or think those policies could be improved, but let's not get so caught up in "oppositional journalism" that we reinforce harmful stereotypes or delegitimize Jewish aspirations and autonomy, especially the right to govern themselves.

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And most importantly, educate yourself.

Here are some good books (mostly written by Jewish authors and historians) that people can read to learn the history and understand the conflict better:

(1) "Ten Myths About Israel" by Ilan Pappe

(2) "Gaza: An Inquest Into its Martyrdom" by Norman G. Finkelstein

(3) "The Hundred Years' War on Palestine: A History of Settler-Colonial Conquest and Resistance, 1917-2017" by Rashid Khalidi

(4) "On Palestine" AND "Gaza in Crisis: Reflections on Israel’s War Against the Palestinians" by Noam Chomsky & Ilan Pappe

(5) "The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine" by Ilan Pappe

(6) "The Iron Cage: The Story of the Palestinian Struggle for Statehood" by Rashid Khalidi

(7) "Hamas Contained: The Rise and Pacification of Palestinian Resistance" by Tareq Baconi

(8) "The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy" by John Mearsheimer & Stephen M. Walt

(9) "The Invention of the Jewish People" by Shlomo Sand

(10) "The Question of Palestine" by Edward W. Said

(11) "My Promised Land: The Triumph and Tragedy of Israel" by Ari Shavit

(12) "The Lemon Tree: An Arab, a Jew and the Heart of the Middle East" by Sandy Tolan

(13) "The Palestine Laboratory: How Israel Exports the Technology of Occupation Around the World" by Antony Loewenstein

(14) "The Punishment of Gaza" by Gideon Levy

(15) "Cracks in The Wall: Beyond Apartheid in Palestine/Israel" by Ben White

(16) "The Holocaust Industry: Reflections on the Exploitation of Jewish Suffering" by Norman G. Finkelstein

(17) "The Iron Wall: Israel and the Arab World" by Avi Shlaim

(18) "The Invention of the Land of Israel: From Holy Land to Homeland" by Shlomo Sand

(19) "Justice for Some: Law and the Question of Palestine" by Noura Erakat

(20) "The Wretched of the Earth" by Frantz Fanon

(21) "The Colonizer and the Colonized" by Albert Memmi

(22) "The Iron Wall: Zionist Revisionism From Jabotinsky to Shamir" by Lenni Brenner

(23) "God's Country: Christian Zionism in America" by Samuel Goldman

(24) "The General's Son: Journey of an Israeli in Palestine" by Miko Peled

(25) "The Pro-Israel Lobby in Europe: The Politics of Religion and Christian Zionism in the European Union" by Elvira King

(26) "Orientalism" by Edward Said

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Mark, it seems as you are confused (but trying to come to terms with) many of the contradictions that is Israel - between what you have been led to believe most of your life and the reality of what Israel is. Kudos to you for trying to resolve this cognitive dissonance.

Zionism is not the only "dopey political ideology". It shares many values with other such ideologies (eg. Nazism, Hindutva - which revolves around Hindu supremacy).

Jewish "self-determination" is not the problem. The problem is the form it takes - i.e. the apartheid, ethnic cleansing and genocide of others. Can you think of another scenario for Jewish "self-determination" that does not involve apartheid, ethnic cleansing, and genocide?

And self-determination is not something special reserved just for Jewish people. There are many groups, tribes, cultures all over the world that do not have self-determination according to whatever definition you have given it, but are still able to co-exist with others peacefully.

>>"The text is antisemitic by implying that support for Israel is not genuine but rather a result of manipulation by powerful forces, echoing harmful stereotypes about Jewish influence and control."

Here you go again providing your own definition of anti-semitism (which is again what many Israelis and Zionists do). There are many Jews that would not agree with your made-up interpretation and definition of anti-semitism. What makes you think you have the correct interpretation of anti-semitism?

Here's another one: you are worried about anti-semitism when people (babies, children, women, disabled, elderly) are being starved, butchered, murdered, disabled, ..... ??? This alone right here is what is wrong.

Q. Do you think any one Israeli's life is worth more than any one Palestinian's?

There are too many other errors in your thinking. Re-read my first comment above again - you seem to be making wrong inferences, connections, and assumptions. One reason may be because of what you have been told all your life about what to believe and what is true/not.

Watch the film "Israelism". Reflect. Question your beliefs and values. Do some soul-searching. Empathize with people that do not belong in your tribe. Consider the perspectives and real-lived experiences of other people. Separate fact from fiction. Read up on history. Interact with different viewpoints. Join a pro-Palestine rally/protest (BTW these are NOT anti-Israel rallys) and converse with others to understand realities different from your own, communicate with other Jewish organizations (eg. JVP, etc.) to understand why they believe what they believe.

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Jewish "self-determination" is not the problem. The problem is the form it takes - i.e. the apartheid, ethnic cleansing and genocide of others. Can you think of another scenario for Jewish "self-determination" that does not involve apartheid, ethnic cleansing, and genocide?

Jews are practicing their self-determination within Israel. Within Israel, there are ~2M Israeli Arabs living with full rights, not under apartheid, not being cleansed, not being killed.

We agree the Gaza and West Bank residents do not have a good solution. You are aware I'm sure of the many attempts by Israel and outsiders (US, others) to deal with Palestinian concerns on borders, Jerusalem, and return of refugees.

If you reflect on the original 1947 UN Resolution, the later Ehud Barak proposal for a Palestinian state on 91% of the West Bank, Israel's withdrawal from the Sinai and withdrawal from Gaza in 2004, and lastly the recent Abraham Accords, normalizing relations with multiple Arab countries, I think you would come to different conclusions about Israel's intentions. Whenever Israel has been offered a real chance for peace, it has compromised.

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>>"Jews are practicing their self-determination within Israel. Within Israel, there are ~2M Israeli Arabs living with full rights,"

HaHa - you are a funny one. Mark Hovde - you insult me with your statements. First of all, this is NOT about Jews. Jews are a fine lot, awesome people, have contributed much to the world, and are living peacefully and productively in many parts of the world. This is an Israel/Zionism problem that has manifested itself as apartheid, ethnic-cleansing, and genocide.

Do you not understand that Israel and Zionism are the WORST ENEMIES of the Jews? Go back to my first comment - (a) Don't conflate Zionism with Jews (g) Don't conflate Israel with Jews.

You talk a big game about "Jewish self-dermination". I don't hear you talking about "Palestinian self-determination". You ask "Does Israel have a right to exist" but I don't hear you asking "Does Palestine has a right to exist".

Answer this question (which you avoided): Do you think a Jewish life is worth more than a Palestinian's?

Again, and I'll say this for the last time - read up on your history - you have no excuse not to. If you continue to argue from ignorance, that shows that you are simply masquerading your true intentions of being a Zionist troll.

Stop pretending to be sincere about your intentions if you cannot even take the effort of getting your facts right and knowing the history. Shame on you! It seems Zionists like you give Jews a bad name. The behavior of Israel give Jews a bad name. If you really cared about Jews, your behavior and attitude would be different. Did you even watch the film Israelism?

Why should people not ignore you if you refuse to learn and inform yourself?

The more Israel continues its current behavior, the more it will be isolated from the rest of the world. Is that what you want for Jews? IMO, Jews deserve better than what Israel and the Zionism ideology are doing to them. I find Israel to be an anti-semitic nation - with no regard for Jews (especially orthodox Jews and their treatment) - though they continue to co-opt the plight of Jews and Judaism for their own personal and political gains.

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First, thanks for parsing the/my issues to facilitate discussion. I will try to respond to your questions in order in your text.

"Zionism is not the only "dopey political ideology". It shares many values with other such ideologies (eg. Nazism, Hindutva - which revolves around Hindu supremacy).

I had to read up on Hindutva. In short, I respectfully disagree. The way I see it, comparing Zionism to Nazism or Hindutva is problematic and misleading due to the fundamental differences in their origins, goals, and values. While one could lump them together as nationalist in some sense, the nature of Zionism is fundamentally different from the racial supremacy and exclusionary goals of Nazism and Hindutva. Zionism’s primary focus is on the establishment and maintenance of a Jewish homeland in response to historical persecution, whereas Nazism and Hindutva involve ideologies that promote the dominance and superiority of a specific racial or religious group over others. It is important to understand these distinctions to avoid conflating fundamentally different ideologies and misrepresenting their purposes and impacts.

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What world have you been living in? Zionism has been the embodiment of Jewish supremacy. Have you never come across the "We are God's chosen people"? Have you completely ignored the thousands of things coming out of the mouths of Zionist government officials? You seem to have blinders on when it comes to Israel (to be expected).

Obviously based on you comment, you seem to be an ardent Zionist.

>>"Zionism’s primary focus is on the establishment and maintenance of a Jewish homeland in response to historical persecution"

So you create your own interpretation of anti-semitism, then move on to defining Zionism with an extremely narrow definition in a way convenient to you. You do realize that your definition of terms are the the globaly accepted ones, right?

Theodore Herzel was the founder of Zionism - the colonial movement that would later go on to found the state of Israel. By 1896 he'd already proposed that the future Zionist state would be a mere proxy state, a dependent outpost of the West and Colonial powers that would further their interest in exchange for their backing - exactly what ended up happening.

He wrote "We should form a portion of a rampart of Europe against Asia, an outpost of civilization as opposed to barbarism. We should as a neutral State remain in contact with all Europe which would have to guarantee our existence."

I guess you didn't bother to read up on history (I gave you a list of 26 books as a starter). Maybe you are aware of Zionism's evolution? Zionism started as a secular movement. The current iteration of Zionism is religious. Zionism is constantly modified to serve the interests of Israel and the US.

Please read up on your history (a good start is the list of books above) - otherwise it is a waste of my time discussing the issue with you.

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I would suggest the idea is that in places where it matters, there is a very high price to pay if you are critical of Israel. Criticism in places like this are nothing more than annoyances to TPTB. Even so, there are attempts being made to smear or even shutdown alternative spaces where even unimportant folks like us can speak freely.

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Slandering someone with antisemitism label has lost its mojo. That’s what happens when you apply the term to shield the monster called Israel.

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Poor Israel. Always the victim.

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Good grief. Thanks for Exhibit A in support of Caitlin's work.

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Please explain how Caitlin's article is antisemitic. It is not enough to just say, "blatantly".

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I will…I have been offline but will respond when back on pc.

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I've lost count of how many attempts have been made on my life because I criticize Israel, and that's been long before any of you ever heard of any of you ever heard of any ill effects from practicing speech, in America concerning Israel.

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Thank you Caitlin.♥️🌏💙

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Reuters created this as their top headline:

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"Israel rescues four hostages in Gaza; Palestinians say 50 dead in Israeli assault"

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The underlying message to the audience is that murdering Palestinians is alright as that is what it takes to free the hostages.

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Under the headline Reuters gave a caveat:

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"It was not immediately clear if the hostage rescue and the deadly Israeli assault were part of the same operation but both took place in al-Nuseirat, an often embattled area in the eight-month-old war between Israel and Gaza's ruling Hamas."

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Jun 8·edited Jun 8

One should best wait until "the dust settles" on events like this, in the expectation that one *might* learn further significant details. Like, for instance, perhaps these hostages were freed days ago but were kept under lock with the pretext that the IDF was first trying to verify their identifications. The hostages were then made public at just the right moment.

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"Israeli war minister Benny Gantz was expected to announce this weekend that he and his party will be leaving the emergency government formed by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu after Hamas attacked Israel in October.

However, he has delayed the statement he was supposed to give on Saturday following news that Israeli forces had rescued four Israeli hostages alive. There is no set new time for his address."

But wait for the dust to settle.

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I find it challenging to believe ANYTHING that comes from the mouths of the US Empire or the "mini Israeli Empire" (if I can call it that) at face value. They have a well-documented track record of lying, deceiving, manipulating, gaslighting, propagandizing, obfuscating, scapegoating, and brainwashing not only their own denizens, but also the rest of the world.

It usually takes a lot of effort to separate "fact from fiction" when it comes to Israel and the US, and my first instinct is to distrust them (US/Israel) until I come across evidence (and logic) that corroborates what they say.

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Brilliant synthesis and analysis as usual. Thank you Caitlin for your clarity.

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Amen

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Artificial and so, so destructive!

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Real & true

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Yup..all of it ,since day one

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