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Ned B.'s avatar

The narrative has been spun so hard that I'm dizzy with disgust.

Meanwhile, horrific murders are explained away by highly-paid apologists. This feeds into human tendency to turn away from unbearable suffering and smoothly distance ourselves from uncomfortable complicity.

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Fran's avatar

I know how to solve your problem, don't pay any attention to the mainstream media under any circumstances.

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gypsy33's avatar

Hi Fran

The problem is that too many DO get their false information from the MSM 🙁

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JennyStokes's avatar

Yes. As I said I have the WAPO and I read the comments. Aaarghhhhhhhh

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AJF's avatar

In my neck of the woods they don't see NPR as mainstream 🙄

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ChazLB's avatar

Thats the clever trick..control both sides of the phoney arguments and keep people corraled in to a narrow perception all the while making them think they are getting the opposite of their chosen perceived enemy.. Its the bread and circus just dressed up as "news"

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Fran's avatar

Unfortunately almost all, and all that I know. I swear.

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Feral Finster's avatar

I find MSM useful as opposition research.

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Fran's avatar

I agree, but now it's no more then propaganda and lies, and I can't watch it anymore. Now all channels support Israel and it's genocidal attack and it infuriates me. I can't watch them sideline all the death and destruction in support of Netanyahu whom I've always hated. There was a movie I went to see a while back on Yitzhak Rabin, and the people going to this theater were primarily Jewish and someone posted a picture on Netanyahu on the wall, and he looked like a monster, but no one took it down. I never liked him myself, and can't see the US do a dance with him now.

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gypsy33's avatar

Hi Feral

My friend and I used to work for someone whose office radio played the likes of Hannity, et al. I used to object, but she’d tell me, “ It’s important to know how the enemy thinks”.

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ChazLB's avatar

I liken my avoidance of main stream to not taking poison just to see what it taste like.

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Nov 12, 2023
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Susan T's avatar

I used to have a job where I had to find articles relating to where I worked. At that time there were often articles of interest in many of the smaller newspapers. Sadly, they are being taken over by bigger entities now. I noticed a lot of things. There is at least one new oil leak every single day somewhere and it is often heading into our drinking water. I noticed that those in power only worry about some water systems being polluted. They aren't too worried about water on indigenous land (usually junky land somewhere out of the way that the colonizers didn't want at the time they gave it away). There is quite a lot of information in any news. You just have to know how to read it. Anyway, you should be wary of me I guess after having such a mind destroying job as that.

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ChazLB's avatar

As i have agreed with you on most things some of your unfortunate easily fallen into behavior patterns have made me quite wary of you to date... And you started out so well behaved and reasonable too?

Interesting how little it takes to spark off those deep seated social and cultural conditioned pedestrian behavior patterns when the slightest challenge doth triggered them..

But as i have seen self examination of these types of conditioning mental tactics and methods are even unknown to its victims of it while they are using them.. Uncanny how Caitlin's attempt to elucidate certain people from their jacked in matrix paradigm is the very essence of the entire point of how brain washing of the social and culture is permeated into the brain stems of the average proletarians so they do not even notice they suffer from it.

And then they proceed to demonstrate the very traits like its a knee jerk reaction they have no control over.....fascinating !

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Nov 13, 2023
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Fran's avatar

Outrage grows after ‘chilling call for genocide’ by Florida Republican

Michele Salzman's number 850-717-5001 I called.

Calls to censure Michelle Salzman, who said, ‘All of them’ when Democrat asked: ‘How many [dead Palestinians] will be enough?’ 

Outrage continues to grow over a public comment made by a Florida state Republican lawmaker calling for all Palestinians to die.

The remarks came during a debate in the state legislature about calling for a ceasefire in Israel’s invasion of Gaza, which has so far killed more than 10,000 Palestinians, many of whom are children. The assault came after Hamas fighters attacked Israel from Gaza, killing at least 1,400 people and taking more than 200 hostage.

In the speech in support of the ceasefire resolution, the Democratic Florida state representative Angie Nixon said: “We are at 10,000 dead Palestinians. How many will be enough?”

“All of them,” Michelle Salzman called in reply.

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Mike's avatar

That solves nothing; it merely delays the apparently inevitable.

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Fran's avatar

I was trying to nurse him back to health. A good deed.

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Mike's avatar

Very good. Nurse away!

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lance arrowood's avatar

a nurse wouldnt ever say nurses get paid too much!

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Fran's avatar

Were you referring to the Hedges article? Over a hundred thousand to start in NY, and no teacher starts, or ends with that salary. Have you been in a hospital lately, seen any bed side nursing lately, or AIDS do their job? So if you're really sick you need an advocate. Here's a summary of what happens when you wind up in a nursing home " Spare me your bullshit. www.singlecare.com/blog/news/long-term-care...

An estimated 1 to 3 million serious infections occur in long-term care settings each year. (CDC, 2020) Throughout a three-year study, the yearly mortality rate of nursing home residents was 32%. (PLOS One, 2018) From 2011 to 2017, 56.1% of nursing home residents with advanced illnesses were transferred to a hospital for care.

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Fran's avatar

The reason for the high incidence of infection is negligence, and poor hygiene. How old are you? 10?

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Mike's avatar

Did you delete a comment? I got one from you in my email that takes me to the above, which is not what was in my email.

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Fran's avatar

No I didn't delete it.

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Mike's avatar

Weird. I cannot seem to find it.

And now I've deleted it from my email.

Ah well, we have plenty other...

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Nov 12, 2023
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Mike's avatar

Ah, then it all makes sense, this was the last piece of the puzzle.

I forget what I was gonna say next...

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F....'s avatar

There's a very good argument that the claims made by MSM need to be ridiculed at each and every opportunity.

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Fran's avatar

Yeah, but I don't want to do it, because then I would have to watch, and even the short clips they show make me sick. Their contempt for their audience is disgusting, but to watch them sell their souls for money is worse.

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F....'s avatar

Indeed they're terrible, for well informed people watching the box becomes a form of torture, one way or another we still need to be up to date on current affairs in order to challenge that ill informed narrative and demolish it with verifiable truths.

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Nov 12, 2023
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Fran's avatar

I never rely on the mainstream media for any information regarding politics, other then a movie schedule, and little if anything else. The mainstream news just wraps you in lies.

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Susan T's avatar

As long as you know that a lot of it is fluff, exaggeration, a bit off the truth, or just a flat out lie, it can be good to know what is being said to others and about the world. We are all part of the same mess. It can be helpful to know what those who don't agree with us are being fed.

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Fran's avatar

I already know they are supporting Israel on this issue and not a word said about the absolute carnage they are perpetrating, just a mindless indifference to a mass slaughter, and I so hate them for that and I can't watch them do it, and won't watch them spew their propaganda. They do not deserve my attention.

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Nov 13, 2023
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ChazLB's avatar

It dulls down the "unfavorable" feelings like ones against the state and exaggerates the ones they seek to manipulate like outrage and empathy they use to manipulate people with.. Subliminal brain washing using the best parts of people as a trigger button to be installed..

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Fran's avatar

Outrage grows after ‘chilling call for genocide’ by Florida Republican

Michele Salzman's number 850-717-5001

Calls to censure Michelle Salzman, who said, ‘All of them’ when Democrat asked: ‘How many [dead Palestinians] will be enough?’ 

Outrage continues to grow over a public comment made by a Florida state Republican lawmaker calling for all Palestinians to die.

The remarks came during a debate in the state legislature about calling for a ceasefire in Israel’s invasion of Gaza, which has so far killed more than 10,000 Palestinians, many of whom are children. The assault came after Hamas fighters attacked Israel from Gaza, killing at least 1,400 people and taking more than 200 hostage.

In the speech in support of the ceasefire resolution, the Democratic Florida state representative Angie Nixon said: “We are at 10,000 dead Palestinians. How many will be enough?”

“All of them,” Michelle Salzman called in reply.

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Too much work's avatar

I think that they know that know that this is the end of reality, and that just as in the case of radio galaxies that sit at the edge of time; just as prophesied by the Kabbalah, time runs in circles, and the snake will swallow it's own tail, and life will go on forever; for them at least, but then there's always that nagging, "What if not?" Which, of course, is different from everyone else's lack of faith. So, what's the big fear of death? Jim Jones and his 900 followers did it with a swallow of Kool-Aid; or don't you have that much faith, or is it that you just don't have the time to die right now? Actually, I have my own fantasies, some of which actually come true, but not always a happy ending for some.

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Too much work's avatar

Very funny Caitlin, but I expected as much.

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Susan T's avatar

I dunno. Seems there should be a better way. Slitting 20 throats in one night? No matter whose throats were slit that must generate some pretty hefty, not good, karma.

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Starry Gordon's avatar

My analysis of the present situation locates most of the pathology in what I call "Capital". (There are other pathologies in action too, but Capital appears to be the most vigorous and best-organized.) In order to reduce or eliminate the power of Capital I try to demonstrate or otherwise support different, non-violent, cooperative forms of social organization. At present these activities have to be local and pretty small-scale, because if there is one thing power freaks know how to do it is to capture and pervert large-scale political and social movements and turn them into weapons.

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Ned B.'s avatar

Fair question, though delivered with exasperation, Phisto.

Locally, I work in-person with activists and authors exposing media treachery, such as my neighbor, Tony Brasunas, who published Red, White and Blind this year. https://www.redwhiteandblind.com/

Here's my review:

***** 5.0 out of 5 stars

With media messaging, one must learn to discern the truth

Reviewed in the United States on July 22, 2023

I might summarize Tony Brasunas' meticulously researched compendium of media malfeasance with this sentence: "Develop a nose for the narrative, so you can sniff out which stories stink."

Spoiler alert: They pretty much all do.

Disclaimer: That was already my assessment before reading Red White & Blind. Since 2003 and the Iraq war, I followed alt-media sources almost exclusively for news and analysis. I knew that propaganda and media narrative manipulation were blatant and pervasive in the MSM. Yet, even I was astounded by the number of examples given, many which I remembered and then many more which I had forgotten.

This has been going on for a long time and not by accident and ever accelerating in recent times with the application of sophisticated psychological techniques and information dissemination technologies. There has always been bias in reportage which Tony classifies as three types: innocent bias, systemic bias and nefarious bias. (Bad, worse, worst)

As a remedy, Tony suggests a "balanced media diet," including a wide variety of sources and viewpoints. This is much like the dietary advice for healthy eating: Consume predominantly natural foods, fresh and minimally processed. Avoid (or ingest sparingly) heavily processed, nutritionally bereft items filled with toxic additives for the sake of taste and texture. Don't be a member of the gullible public that swallows anything.

*****

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ChazLB's avatar

The problem with this approach of just using it all and falling in the middle is. What if it's all bad? Or false or lies? Many alternatives are simply repackaged bull shit skewing things off in crazy directions to poison the well or just distract people down garden paths.

My fundamental method to decern truth from fiction is cultivating a deep sens of integrity and intellectual courage but still I can get my own perceptions warped by very clever alternative and main stream media trickery that's thrust in my face every where I go from billboard to tv's on in buisness's. The Orwellian tellascreens are everywhere now.

So I come from a position that everything is assumed a lie till proven otherwise. Lying will and is the reason I think humans are going to go extinct.

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David's avatar

The official narrative wants us to believe in the "rules based world order" formulated by the US special interests to benefit the closed cabal of imperialists who operate under the sobriquet of "Western Democracy". That it is a farce is a given, but that a majority of the public buys into it is a tragedy.

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Indu Abeysekara's avatar

David, I agree. We have to be skeptical all the time.Learn to read between the lines. Question the official narrative. Be aware and be critical of the systems we are living under. When they use "rules based world order" , "our values, our way of life", you don't have to be a linguist to know the meaning beyond the words.

Think beyond the conditioning. Cultivate right view and right intention. Be alert of mind; and kind of heart. You will know what is right; and what is wrong.

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gypsy33's avatar

“Our values, our way of life” need to be stamped out like so many cockroaches.

Oh, I believe I just an analogy here!—cockroaches = Zionazis.

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Feral Finster's avatar

Nope. If Israel didn't exist, the sociopaths would just move on to something else.

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Starry Gordon's avatar

I agree. The ethnic and religious identity stuff is camouflage.

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Éva LaRoche's avatar

No need for them to move on to something else. The ziopigs have infiltrated just about every country’s government and installed their central banks in each many moons ago. The ziopigs have positioned themselves as puppeteers behind the scenes. They’ve been in complete control of amerika for quite some time now.

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gypsy33's avatar

True enough Feral 😭

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Too much work's avatar

I see it all the time in matters concerning astrophysics and other matters that impinge upon it, and yet some people would stack still more layers of, 'what ifs', on top of that to produce an entire field of psydo science to prove a reactionary theology that was creaked to rebuke the words of some nut case that had the audacity to speak of freedom in the face of the poor innocent oligarchy, that wished no harm other than the free labor of its surfs in Europe and the gold and silver of the New World, at any cost to its indigenous peoples, beginning in approximately 1503, when the priests and bishops of the Catholic Church attempted to seize the wealth of the oligarchy that was stored in the vaults at Saint Michael's Cathedral in Venice. Which then brought us to today. But, besides today's oligarchy; does anyone really care? Of course not! But that's pretty much what the last 500 years of Western Civilization has been all about. And, why you don't hear much about it because it's called censorship, and here most of you all thought that crap like censorship was only about 100-years-old; no Honey, shit like that runs deep, so deep that they call it the Deep State now; meaning that the US, and all of us others' were never anything other than free serfs, or slaves if you prefer.

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ChazLB's avatar

I was just watching a hollywood crime drama production where they had drugs with Syrian symbols on it making it appear the mafia was buying drugs from syria.. Its all drama depictions but its well known and documented that the CIA is in Hollywood and has whole departments dedicated to manipulation of public perceptions through subtle and subliminal mind control techniques..

I have been in and around the business for many years and have seen and heard things that corroborate this.. Including having someone tell me that they purposefully ask to have those types of things inserted into story when they have no other relevance other than to create an image of some idea they want to insert into the public consciousness.. They seem like innocuous things as one offs but cumulatively they add up to warping people's perceptions of reality to use their empathy and outrage against them to twist the narratives to the agenda of the state and make the political lies they are than told about our so called "enemies" seem much more plausible to the easily swayed..

I have seen this in the build up of every single western led war where they start to demonize a group or country in the cross hairs far before any official announcement.. Its called priming the well (in the con artists terms) ,, it happens far enough in advance that its not noticed as permeation into people's minds. This is where you get so many in the western public suffering from Russian xenophobia and Putin bogyman syndrome. So that they never push back against the shadow states MIC agenda

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Susan T's avatar

There has been mass atrocity after mass atrocity happening for the past 50 years or so. They are getting worse and the lies are getting bigger. Maybe (hopefully?) people are believing them less. It is difficult to believe anything from mass media, politicians or anyone any more. This most recent mass atrocity is right up there with the worst. It is hard to stomach, painful to think about and especially painful and sad to think that it is "our side" committing it.

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The Revolution Continues's avatar

"...this leaves us living in two worlds: the real world and the narrative world."

So many enjoy living in the imaginary world of narrative spin. I guess it's just easier for them not to think for themselves. And yet, these harsh statistics and heart-breaking photos of dead children killed with US made bombs seem to jar that imaginary world a little too much, breaking it like a glass jar falling off a tall shelf. We're going to see a lot "cracked souls" in the coming months as more and more people come to realize that they have been cheering on a genocide with all the enthusiasm they usually display at sports events.

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Jack Lomax's avatar

We actually live inside the Dystopian narrative titled 1984. I have seen this real life narrative unfold long before the actual date 1984 through today. The author Orwell remembering is own and his wife's experience in the war of 1939/45 working in London for their Propaganda House , and it is in essence simple. Take over all of the widely published media and pretend that you haven't. Then replace reportage of actual events with similar sounding one which soothes your media readers and encourage then to believe and act on these mainstream lies. Where the events are too big and too evil to downplay distort them until they just sounds a bit bad but your government is doing all that it can t bring them to an end. It's called controlled democracy and it works fine. No need for revolutions here. Now go back to sleep and wait for the next 'news' bulletin.

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John Pretty's avatar

Well I live in a house in the UK. I don't live in a George Orwell novel - that's narrative Mr Lomax.

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Jack Lomax's avatar

Living in a house in UK is also living under a narrative which tells you that everything is fine just pay your taxes and read and believe the media we present to you. Not Orwell but getting there

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John Pretty's avatar

lol, I didn't say my life was fine!

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ChazLB's avatar

Pay your tax's dread pirate Roberts

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Bevan's avatar

“Question the dominant paradigm! Interrupt the official narrative!”

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Literally Mussolini's avatar

"Question the dominant paradigm" was a popular bumper sticker slogan in Berkeley in the 80s.

It remains relevant.

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Susan Mercurio's avatar

Question Authority was a popular slogan on buttons. - remember buttons? - in the 1970s.

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Feral Finster's avatar

Ain't it funny that the subversive, the pranksters, the roasters of sacred cows, the tellers of Forbidden Truths have morphed into finger-wagging pedants and moralists so dour and humorless they make The Church Lady look like Lenny Bruce by comparison?

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Susan Mercurio's avatar

The ones I'm thinking of died.

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ChazLB's avatar

How to commandeer a movement is in chapters one of the cia mind control handbook

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Feral Finster's avatar

If you want to find out who a human really is, give them power.

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Literally Mussolini's avatar

I do remember buttons.

(Although I was only 14 when the 70s ended.)

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Robert Billyard's avatar

Fifty years from now it will be noted the West was led over a cliff by totally corrupt and demented political and economic elites, meanwhile the rest of the world will have moved on to better times. Forgetting the West is only 13% of world's population the controlled narrative was a bottomless boat and the real world prevailed.

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Susan T's avatar

that would be the best turn out saying that the earth survives all the abuse that is being put on it now.

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Robert Billyard's avatar

How much collateral damage will the West inflict on the rest of the world? Hopefully it can be minimized. How much more sociocide will happen before it wakes up?

I wish they would legalize reincarnation so I can come back and see how this horror show plays out.

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JennyStokes's avatar

Oh no. I don't want to come back unless I am a bird.

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Feral Finster's avatar

I advise coming back as a cat.

Really, you can't imagine how pleasant it is until you try it.

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gypsy33's avatar

Feral, I’d like to come back as one of MY cats!

Oh wait…I’d be dead….

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Feral Finster's avatar

Sounds interesting...

I understand that India is absolutely jam-packed with mice and rats, but that Indian people for some reason rarely associate with cats.

I thought about moving in to the residential section of a nice women’s college, spend my days napping on their beds and my nights protecting the poor dears from rodent infestation and otherwise roaming and propagating the species.

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Michael Green's avatar

The truth is so horribly terrible that to preserve one’s sanity often leads to a belief in the narrative. Otherwise all is lost and chaos follows. Some need to believe we are always the good guys.

And then there is the belief that all of history has dominant civilizations, the alpha, the apex predator, and this is normal, while it lasts.

In my lap I do not hold a book of Grimm’s fairy tales. Instead I hold a mirror. And I see truth and the need for change.

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Schantz's avatar

A must watch about the mainstream media propaganda complex

Watch this 5 minute clip with Kim Iversen and Scott Ritter from Thursday on their Twitter accounts.

Full interview in the Rumble link.

https://twitter.com/KimIversenShow?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

@KimIversenShow

"This is pretty cool because the CIA is working with CNN.

Think about that, ladies and gentlemen, I just told you that the CIA is working with CNN to do a documentary that's designed to shape the opinion of the American people." -

@RealScottRitter

https://twitter.com/RealScottRitter?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

https://rumble.com/v3urnry-wartime-lies-and-propaganda-exposed-a-conversation-with-scott-ritter.html

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Schantz's avatar

Have you heard of the mainstream media propaganda complex?

Most likely you have heard of the military industrial complex.

Many now are awakening to the pharmaceutical medical industrial complex.

The mainstream media propaganda complex is the voice for the military industrial complex and pharmaceutical medical industrial complex.

CIA controlled Google and Wikipedia are part of the mainstream media propaganda complex.

When you see this death symbol, promoted as the 'peace symbol', by the mainstream media propaganda complex, turn this symbol upside down.

Don't let your enemies deceive you.

They want and promote death and destruction, from bombs and needles, they even lie with their symbols.

They know the power of symbols, do you?

Knowledge is power and the correct formation of life.

My photo image is the correct peace symbol. Google and Wikipedia promote the death symbol.

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JennyStokes's avatar

What is that symbol?

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JennyStokes's avatar

Mr Schantz's symbol. I can't see it very well.

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Schantz's avatar

The Plejaren extraterrestrial Ptaah (He who lives life in wisdom)

Ptaah:

For my part, I think it is good, and it is also urgently necessary that an enlightenment should finally take place regarding the false 'peace symbol' that is being abused worldwide by the death rune.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_symbols

As unbelievable as it may sound to some people on Earth, since the use of the symbol of death its symbolic power has been deposited in the people on Earth and has been working in a malignant way ever since.

https://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Contact_Report_599

The Plejaren extraterrestrial Bermunda (She who is very powerful)

Bermunda:

I have to say unfortunately to that, because it would really be very important that the real peace sign is publicly spread over the Earth, because the death symbol sign, which is in use as a false peace symbol on the Earth, really has a very, very negative symbolic effect on human beings.

https://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Contact_Report_794

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Ghostfromthefuture's avatar

How many children died? a couple of thousands? Wake me up again, when we reached the half million mark.... *sarcasm off*

And who here does not remember when they were 5 months old, sucking your mamas breasts and thinking "Oh those fucking Jews! Hate them! Or the Chinese, those Bastards! And don't get me started on Russians! Or Blacks!". No wonder the Israeli government tries to kill as many of those anti-Semitic baby terrorists as they can! *sarcasm off... for sure now*

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Too much work's avatar

"sucking your momma's breasts", I haven't heard that one since their serial killer/rapist uncle got kicked in the balls and killed by the 13th prostitute that he tried that on.

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ChazLB's avatar

Just started reading this and its fascinating and frightening because you get this very uneasy feeling that gives you a glimpse into the insidious nature of how the mind control takes on these dimension of plausible sounding language to warp perceptions of reality... its creepy how they are going about it ..

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NIZAMIXIII's avatar

@normanfinkelstein alludes to a calculus of war, actually in the case of the Hamas attack. Chris Hedges latest report delves into the Hamas strategy. It is difficult for anyone A not facing obliteration and B not of the global south to understand it... NB this is not at all saying Hamas uses human shields. That has been shown over and over to be Israeli propaganda. Like their western allies, Israel relies on hyper mental games. Thus, misinformation, propaganda, Qurans in glove compartments after 9/11, faked phone calls after hospital bombings, and highly motivated online armies to repeat the message. While this artificial intelligence arrives at the same conclusion as the machine in the 80s movie War Games, we will see thousands more children buried alive, and hundreds more armchair zionazis defend “their right to defend themselves.”

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ChazLB's avatar

Interesting that neo in the end realized that he could not just unplug everyone after he conquered the machine..it's as if Hollywood again gives you a glimps of your own matrix and than manipulate you to believe there nothing you can do about the system in place because if you destroy it you cause harm to everyone.. Its a subtle way of keeping people docile.. I also think it's interesting that the blue pill and red pill are really the same drug.. Red pill blue pill red state blue state coke or Pepsi red can or blue can..pick a team and fight but only ever one of two teams. This way they keep people witin the confines of the ring of games as they are exploited as the resource to be simply managed and controlled.

They give you a taste of freedom but just enough freedoms to move about the cage. As long as the bars are gilded maybe you won't notice it's still the matrix..don't forget to vote for one of two installed puppets and never forget to sign and date the tax checks.

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Kurt's avatar

"... because we live in a civilization that is dominated by narrative control." Thanks to today's newsletter I discovered this other gem of Caitlin https://caityjohnstone.medium.com/society-is-made-of-narrative-realizing-this-is-awakening-from-the-matrix-787c7e2539ae. Written in 2018! That's before the Great Covid Scare Narrative. How remarkably up to date it sounds. Thank you, Caitlin.

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Susan T's avatar

thanks for the link to caitlin's article about narrative. It is excellent and thought provoking.

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John Pretty's avatar

I think Caitlin bought into it.

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Kojo's avatar

Just to give a sense of how horrifically wrong:

https://thegrayzone.com/2023/10/27/israels-military-shelled-burning-tanks-helicopters

We are talking here about an Israeli government that not only is massacring Palestinians civilians and even Israeli hostages in Gaza….but also DELIBERATELY bombed Israeli citizens to bits as a combat tactic.

For atrocities the west has rewarded Israel’s government with money and weapons to keep doing it

Those are the practices and values that these western ghouls are entrenching when they say: “we stand with Israel”. And they are putting people in prison for protesting against.

Don’t be surprised when those values get practised domestically in the west.

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John Pretty's avatar

Well, whether or not that is true, this would still not have happened had Hamas not attacked the Kibbutz. Hamas committed a war crime by killing and kidnapping civilians. That's still a fact.

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gypsy33's avatar

Antonio Gutierrez:

It didn’t happen in a vacuum.

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Susan Mercurio's avatar

You're wrong. Other sources have said that those "atrocities" were done by the Israeli military to be able to blame Hamas.

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Kojo's avatar

Palestine is occupied by Israel. That's why they got attacked. Invading and occupying another country is a war crime in itself. I believe that's the storyline for the billions of your tax money sent to Ukraine.

And Israel is using weapons and money its is getting, to BOMB ITS OWN PEOPLE. This is the height of perversion and lunacy. It’s a dictionary level example of extremism.

"Facts" mean full facts. Not some sort of self deception partial reading. That willingness to lie to yourself and gaslight other people, is why Israel is in this problem. The rest of the world does not need to get corrupted by this psychopathy.

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JennyStokes's avatar

I wrote a comment above. It's happening.

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John Pretty's avatar

What is?

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Joy in HK fiFP's avatar

I wonder if there is any way to break through. My best suggestion is to ask one question: keeping all the facts the same, would you still support what’s happening, still think it’s right and just, if the ones in Gaza were Israelis instead of Palestinians? I think the answer to that question would be very interesting. Let’s ask the next time we encounter anyone claiming that what is happening to Gaza is Ok.

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John Pretty's avatar

I'll tell you how. Cut out the emotional rhetoric. Stop pretending that there are good guys and bad guys and stop taking sides. Not that doesn't mean condoning the action of the state of Israel in Gaza.

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gypsy33's avatar

By all means, let’s not get all “emotional” about 11,000 dead Palestinians, with thousands more missing and presumed dead.

Again , just STFU.

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