When I am talking to people, I find that many are stuck on the idea that Israel has a right to defend itself because Hamas killed about 1400 people and kidnapped another 200 on October 17th, which I have to agree is an atrocity. But they don't hear about the 75 years of oppression that Palestinians have endured. They don't hear that about 10,000 people in Gaza have been killed in the past 3 weeks. They don't hear that Israelis are killing one Palestinian child every 15 minutes. I don't think they hear that it is bombs being dropped on hospitals to get to one member of Hamas. I don't think it would really make a difference if the Israelis were going into hospitals with swords and guns and stabbing and shooting everyone. I think they just hear that Israel has the right to avenge itself. Just like America had the right to avenge itself after 911. Never mind that they avenge themselves against people who have done nothing to them.
The "occupied Gaza strip", the "Occupied West Bank" have been so for decades.
In fact, Israel has no right to "defend itself" because according to the law, citizens of occupied lands have every right to try to purge the occupiers.
"[Israel] avenge[s] themselves against people who have done nothing to them."
Oh, apologists for Israel will go back to 1948 and claim that the new European migrants back then were just sitting there on completely empty plots of land completely minding their own business, having left the actual theatre of the actual driving offenses, having been given authoritative permission by authoritative colonial controllers, when bloodthirsty primitives spontaneously went mad (after many years of locals of differing religions living peacefully side-by-side) due to their bloodthirsty religion (an Abrahamic one, no less).
So, are they saying it's in the Arab genes? There's word for that. Is it in the water of the Levant? Yet they are curiously immune. And on and on and on. The whole decades-long campaign strains credulity beyond the breakpoint.
----------
"There is a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can't take part! You can't even passively take part! And you've got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels ... upon the levers, upon all the apparatus, and you've got to make it stop!"
--Mario Savio, 1964, a founder of Free Speech Movement
I trust that many of us who "put [our] bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels" are feeling the effects of the machine personally. This thing is a monster. In the computer age, it is a snap to target people individually, and it does. It wants to kill us, this threat to their system, and we (will) need to be willing to visibly sacrifice as examples our anti-violence livelihoods and lives. That is the word to spread.
Thanks for this source quote, bill wolfe. It looks like a good example of how a societal system developed by insufficient consciousness can become a monster. At that point, the sufficiently conscious ("honest men to rebel and revolutionize") have hard work to get to, and often it takes decades and heavy costs to overcome. So Savio quoted and discusses it somewhere? I'm not well-educated about him.
I'm also leery of wars that are internally-generated in societies and nations. Much social and political friction is precisely the result of that eternal insufficient consciousness, in all individuals on any or multiple sides. Accordingly, when some unconscious are attacked by the conscious for their cruelty *prior* to reasonable efforts at proven-successful methods in diplomacy, we can *always* expect pushback, including violence as well as closing of minds. Closing of minds means only war will proceed. The Machiavelian monsters in TPTB understand this, and use it. And so now we have it gathering steam again.
This is how I believe the Left-Right came, tragically, to war against each other, now for moree than a century and a half, when they are actually at root each necessary components (supporting societal and individual welfare, respectively) of functioning human society. Today, this war is treated as something wholly natural and perpetual.
The only exceptions I see to the possibility of social integration are sociopathy/psychopathy, which are largely immutable characteristics of the brain/body, no matter whether nature or nurture caused. Society must adequately insulate itself from anti-social behavior, without punishing these people by the reason of "evil", IMO, a primitive, magical, even at root meaningless, but thoroughly destructive concept that is gathering new steam.
Yet I still sometimes use the word "evil" myself, as I don't know of a good substitute for conscious extreme anti-social attitude and behavior, but without the religious, immutable, "magical" aspect.
Omg, another Seth reader! My mom introduced me to him. "Seth Speaks". I'm an atheist but if anything had a chance of being true, this would be the one, imo.
I find that there are people who perfectly parrot the talking points fed to them by MSM because they just plainly believe what they're told. Sad but happening all the time.
I think that too many journalists have gone to university with the same people in whose interests it is to promote more wars, sell more military equipment and ammunition etc. It was probably better when journalists were more self educated and just took a few courses in how to write, take photos and make their points. I am not saying that all journalists have this problem. I am saying that some journalists may have this problem.
I think it is better to keep it simple. Murdering thousands of civilians in retaliation is enough horror. If people don't understand that is a crime against humanity, if they don't hear what I am saying then, they won't hear any better with that additional information.
I don't actually spread anything. I don't talk about how many people were or were not killed in the Hamas attack. I am only trying to get people to see that killing thousands of civilians, almost half of them children, is wrong, a crime against humanity, way too much even if Hamas did exactly what the Israeli's said. It is a topic about which people get extremely heated. I want to get people to look at it more widely. Bringing up too many things at once will accomplish even less than bringing up the topic at all. And you are wrong that nobody questions the morality of murdering all those civilians. There are people who really think that Israel is justified to be doing what they are doing. The mainstream media is not helping.
I was not talking about this thread only. and to be clear, I said " I find that many are stuck on the idea that Israel has a right to defend itself because Hamas killed about 1400 people and kidnapped another 200 on October 7th, which I have to agree is an atrocity". People are stuck on that idea, and if that is what they are thinking, it is an atrocity. I didn't say that is what I think. I am hoping to get people stuck in that thinking to re-think the situation. Most of the time we just end up not talking about it or not talking to each other any more. I hope to try to keep the lines of communication open so that there is some chance of getting people to see things differently.
I live in Canada and while I think our government is subservient to the US government, as are many other governments, I don't think the people of Canada are subservient to the US government or to the Canadian government, at least not willingly. We all have stuff imposed on us though, like youtube disallowing comments not supportive of Israel. While I have noted that some in these substack comments seem to find the people of countries responsible for their governments behaviour, I don't agree with that thinking.
One of the fundamental reasons this atrocity is happening is that the US and Israel are used to acting with impunity and have done so for decades.
"As America is determined to wage war on the world, the world must be more determined than ever to wage peace and civility, up to and including sanctioning the US. A good starting point is for governments around the world to sever diplomatic relations.
Bullying empires will continue to bully until such time as they are challenged and held to account. Unless the world community shows great solidarity and indignation in response to this atrocity the worst is yet to come ."
"A good starting point is for governments around the world to sever diplomatic relations." That's cheered me up no end! Simple! Pick a date and dedicate it to Palestine. Give maximum publicity to this day that we all begin to sever all diplomatic relations to the U$ofA and israel. Their [imaginary] dollar needs to be more seriously weakened by BRICS, etc. Cut them down to size. I like it! Time to start winning. On (y)our marks! Get set! GO!!
"Unless the world community shows great solidarity and indignation in response to this atrocity the worst is yet to come"
I'm noticing a distinct change in the MSM spin, there is all of a sudden there seems a back-off from full-scale Gaza annihilation. Bombed-out hospitals, ambulances, and whole cities not looking so good on the TeeVee.
I think TPTB now realize that with the continued pro-Palestinian protests, that they are overplaying their hands with Israel the sole victim. Average people are scratching their heads, as in what led to the1968 Vietnam MSM watershed with Walter Cronkite et al.
But it's essential for us not to get complacent. Recognize how long it took to end each of the wars we've protested. Remember how they don't concede arguments -- they double, triple, and quadruple down, in hybrid warfare, until finally crushed by the weight of near-universal opposition. This will absolutely be a drawn-out confrontation, requiring us to conserve energy and stay resilient.
I have deliberately looked at as many photos and videos as I can of the body parts and horrific injuries of the dead, of burnt infants and a couple of little toddler's legs that were all that was left of the child to be buried. I have shared some of them. The mainstream news media all say "we can't show you these videos because they are too graphic". Well they SHOULD show them. People need to see the results of massive bombing. Especially here in the west, the public is too sheltered from the results of their politicians' wars. Show the pictures. Show the videos. Force people to look!
Over 11,000 people in Gaza are dead or missing beneath the rubble.That includes 4,000 children. 26,000 are wounded.
132 Palestinians, including 41 children, have been killed by Israeli soldiers and illegal settlers in the past month. 2,000 have been ‘transferred’ from their homes to prison, swelling the prisoner population to 5,000.
If only Mainstream Media (MSM) would show unfiltered pictures of the little corpses I’ve seen, more people would protest, and this war would end.
Those countries supporting IDF atrocities will not be forgiven. Violence begets violence. I expect years of terror ahead… and more European holiday homes in South Africa. In Israel, Netanhayu and the right-wing supporting his corruption, will not be forgiven for the hostages he’s bombing.
What I’m less certain of, but hoping most for, is that Gaza gets rebuilt better. The Arab world will not be alone in that charitable desire.
It's the Distant-Death-Machine, or Death by Distance. Remote Control "sanitizes" the killing field, especially when the slain are seen as people of an inferior race, which is almost always the case. Hints of pushback here and there in the West. People need to realize that "We are all Palestinians," and what's happening to them today (not to mention for decades) will happen to you tomorrow.
During the Vietnam War, the USAF studied the feelings of combat air crews towards the bombing campaigns they had conducted.
Not surprisingly, B52 crews, who flew at high altitudes and could barely see their targets, much less the people they were killing via carpet bombing, were the least affected. It was just another job.
Crews of close air support aircraft, who flew at treetop height and could sometimes see the faces of the people that they bombed, were the most troubled.
Nowadays, most ground attack is via standoff weapons and remotely operated drones.
indeed, imo, the grave mistake people make, is they think that they will be save from the next onslaught when they don't speak up about this one. but, i think the mass-murdering logic is not inherently racist or minority focused. it will murder 'its own' with the same vigor and brutality to serve certain interests.
I expect they weigh the options in the balance as to which is more painful then pursue that course but they'll probably head for the industrial scale mass extermination MOAB bulldozer approach because they're bored with ordinary sadism after so many decades of experimenting with it.
..saddest part of all of this majority 'westerners' don't care about killings!, they will go to Bar, Restaurants, Airports fly and watch on TV news sport and continue eat, drink and blahber : what, where and sipp another beer with slice a pizza or chicken wings, oops BBQ ribs... but it will change one day and then............I'll stop here, it is too much already!...
Thousands of pro-Palestinian protesters gather in DC, NY, London, as Israel bombs Gaza, and they did the same in many countries world wide and in America. I don't know if it will make a difference, but I certainly hope so.
ok, USA 340 million people, nato about 870, million, + majority silent countries! my point thousands are not ......or 100 thousands are not sufficient!....majority are the problems, on top of everything they keep voting same garbage in to W. or eu B......
You don't have to inform me on this issue. I was very active in the anti-war movement in the US. I marched, and marched against the war in Iraq, wrote letters, called, belonged to groups who actively spoke out against our many middle eastern wars, as many did. Did we stop it, no. America had an agenda, and all those Middle Eastern wars were preplanned before 9/11. Watch Wesley Clark discuss that, seven wars preplanned even before we went into Afghanistan. A neocon agenda that killed and displaced millions and most, almost all Americans went about their business, not given it a thought. I heard people say, who cares about Muslims. A therapist, Jewish, told me they should kill all Muslims and I asked her, "Babies too?" and she said, "Oh, yes!" A drop out nun, made the same claim, I never spoke to them again. Sick bastards! That agenda, a neocon agenda that drove those wars is the reason we are using Ukraine to bring Russia down. Trump wasn't perfect by any means, but he wanted to get along with Russia, but it wasn't part of the American agenda, and too many on the left abetted the democrats in that regard. It was just good to see people out there trying to make a difference today.
... exactly my point, I was in Paris 1975, you have to see Champs Elysee!, and peace was signed!... but unfortunately 'eu' (and US) inbreds learn and today we have results! ...k. schwab( with msm, CFR, WHO!) work hard to enslave good % of earth!....
What are you trying to say here? I'm sure as hell not going to read that article. All I know is that during the 21st century there was war after war, and no war under Trump. It was a relaxing four years in that regard, except the non-stop anti-Trump rhetoric which continues. So is Biden, your hero, or how about Cheney and Bush? May they rot in hell for all those they have slaughtered. Spare me this shit, and it is.
Who is a senior fellow at the Brooking's institute? Kagan, Robert Kagan, married to Nuland, neocons all with an agenda that is pushing the war in Russia and everywhere else during the 21st century? Didn't you hear her on the phone in 2014 deciding after we supported a bunch of neo-nazi's who should run the government of Ukraine and Obama then put's Biden in charge, and gets his son a job. Those Kagans, you are quoting are neocon scum?
I hope you are one of the few who joined the Portland Peace and Justice Works peace marches every Friday at Pioneer Square. If not, next week! Last week was their 22nd anniversary. https://www.pjw.info/friday_rally4_up1023generic.pdf
Very interesting from Finkelstein this morning https://rumble.com/v3tqszy-norman-finkelstein-on-israels-brutal-war-on-gaza.html the cause of Gaza is almost certainly lost. we are watching a genocide in front of our eyes. But we still speak, because it could be the rare occasion when right beats might but also because we cannot pretend, and still live with ourselves, that we didn't see what we saw.
Yes you are absolutely right, the Empire has made Iran, Russia and BRICS ties stronger than ever. I think the Empire will die and multipolarity and the BRI will have its chance.
But I don't think we can stop the genocide of Palestine.
Finkelstein says, and I agree with him, that it's all theatre. America can say that they asked for a humanitarian pause 'see we tried, we're nice people; they wouldn't listen'. Apparently Obama got a temporary ceasefire specially so that his inauguration wouldn't be spoiled; cynical as hell. Then they were allowed to start the bombing again. The Biden regime doesn't want peace nor a Palestinian state, they're for all for Israel. Otherwise they'd stop the $billions in funding which Israel won't last long without.
Say the Palestinians are exterminated or pushed into Sinai in the next few months, it will all be forgotten by election time Finkelstein recons. I think that's likely.
I was referring to the BRI not only as infrastructure but as the initiative that invests in other countries to the mutual benefit of China and all countries. I know it's not a political party; it's more of a global movement.
Richard Medhurst is saying that other reasons why Israel wants Gaza include the gas off its coast as well as to form part of the Empire's (doomed) rival to the BRI.
Our refusal to get on board the economy love train just because it's not our baby is yet another reason why we're going down the pan.
I think we'd all agree Britain is one of the most evil, violent nations on the planet.
But during the Ulster "Troubles" when Irish 'terrorist' bombs were killing civilians in London and Manchester, nobody said carpet bomb Dublin or Belfast to get to the RA.
If they'll do this [https://x.com/DomeLord/status/1721117149538791505?s=20] to their very own babies (without anaesthetic, I may add) then the babies of their perceived 'enemies' in the whole of the rest of the world stand no chance whatsoever. It's the unhinged elders responsible who need bringing to book for what has been now many centuries of vile child abuse. No ifs or buts, my shout is that 'Child abusers belong in prison'!
I think about it all the time. Since we are so unable to do anything to stop it you feel impotent. It’s horrifying what’s going on there and I just can’t imagine what it is like to be bombed as they are being with no escape. No bomb shelters. No warnings. Just trapped in buildings or on the street
I'm not in the US and have done plenty in Australia to make view points known. I don't feel fear thanks for the thought but I do feel sad for those being slaughtered.
When I am talking to people, I find that many are stuck on the idea that Israel has a right to defend itself because Hamas killed about 1400 people and kidnapped another 200 on October 17th, which I have to agree is an atrocity. But they don't hear about the 75 years of oppression that Palestinians have endured. They don't hear that about 10,000 people in Gaza have been killed in the past 3 weeks. They don't hear that Israelis are killing one Palestinian child every 15 minutes. I don't think they hear that it is bombs being dropped on hospitals to get to one member of Hamas. I don't think it would really make a difference if the Israelis were going into hospitals with swords and guns and stabbing and shooting everyone. I think they just hear that Israel has the right to avenge itself. Just like America had the right to avenge itself after 911. Never mind that they avenge themselves against people who have done nothing to them.
Israel is not "defending itself". It has been the aggressor since 1948.
yep
The "occupied Gaza strip", the "Occupied West Bank" have been so for decades.
In fact, Israel has no right to "defend itself" because according to the law, citizens of occupied lands have every right to try to purge the occupiers.
Here's one to break out the popcorn for: https://www.thefp.com/p/the-great-betrayal
"[Israel] avenge[s] themselves against people who have done nothing to them."
Oh, apologists for Israel will go back to 1948 and claim that the new European migrants back then were just sitting there on completely empty plots of land completely minding their own business, having left the actual theatre of the actual driving offenses, having been given authoritative permission by authoritative colonial controllers, when bloodthirsty primitives spontaneously went mad (after many years of locals of differing religions living peacefully side-by-side) due to their bloodthirsty religion (an Abrahamic one, no less).
So, are they saying it's in the Arab genes? There's word for that. Is it in the water of the Levant? Yet they are curiously immune. And on and on and on. The whole decades-long campaign strains credulity beyond the breakpoint.
----------
"There is a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can't take part! You can't even passively take part! And you've got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels ... upon the levers, upon all the apparatus, and you've got to make it stop!"
--Mario Savio, 1964, a founder of Free Speech Movement
I trust that many of us who "put [our] bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels" are feeling the effects of the machine personally. This thing is a monster. In the computer age, it is a snap to target people individually, and it does. It wants to kill us, this threat to their system, and we (will) need to be willing to visibly sacrifice as examples our anti-violence livelihoods and lives. That is the word to spread.
Thanks for this source quote, bill wolfe. It looks like a good example of how a societal system developed by insufficient consciousness can become a monster. At that point, the sufficiently conscious ("honest men to rebel and revolutionize") have hard work to get to, and often it takes decades and heavy costs to overcome. So Savio quoted and discusses it somewhere? I'm not well-educated about him.
I'm also leery of wars that are internally-generated in societies and nations. Much social and political friction is precisely the result of that eternal insufficient consciousness, in all individuals on any or multiple sides. Accordingly, when some unconscious are attacked by the conscious for their cruelty *prior* to reasonable efforts at proven-successful methods in diplomacy, we can *always* expect pushback, including violence as well as closing of minds. Closing of minds means only war will proceed. The Machiavelian monsters in TPTB understand this, and use it. And so now we have it gathering steam again.
This is how I believe the Left-Right came, tragically, to war against each other, now for moree than a century and a half, when they are actually at root each necessary components (supporting societal and individual welfare, respectively) of functioning human society. Today, this war is treated as something wholly natural and perpetual.
The only exceptions I see to the possibility of social integration are sociopathy/psychopathy, which are largely immutable characteristics of the brain/body, no matter whether nature or nurture caused. Society must adequately insulate itself from anti-social behavior, without punishing these people by the reason of "evil", IMO, a primitive, magical, even at root meaningless, but thoroughly destructive concept that is gathering new steam.
Yet I still sometimes use the word "evil" myself, as I don't know of a good substitute for conscious extreme anti-social attitude and behavior, but without the religious, immutable, "magical" aspect.
Omg, another Seth reader! My mom introduced me to him. "Seth Speaks". I'm an atheist but if anything had a chance of being true, this would be the one, imo.
Thank you for this pointer, I'll check him out
I find that there are people who perfectly parrot the talking points fed to them by MSM because they just plainly believe what they're told. Sad but happening all the time.
I think that too many journalists have gone to university with the same people in whose interests it is to promote more wars, sell more military equipment and ammunition etc. It was probably better when journalists were more self educated and just took a few courses in how to write, take photos and make their points. I am not saying that all journalists have this problem. I am saying that some journalists may have this problem.
Right on, Che!
I think it is better to keep it simple. Murdering thousands of civilians in retaliation is enough horror. If people don't understand that is a crime against humanity, if they don't hear what I am saying then, they won't hear any better with that additional information.
I don't actually spread anything. I don't talk about how many people were or were not killed in the Hamas attack. I am only trying to get people to see that killing thousands of civilians, almost half of them children, is wrong, a crime against humanity, way too much even if Hamas did exactly what the Israeli's said. It is a topic about which people get extremely heated. I want to get people to look at it more widely. Bringing up too many things at once will accomplish even less than bringing up the topic at all. And you are wrong that nobody questions the morality of murdering all those civilians. There are people who really think that Israel is justified to be doing what they are doing. The mainstream media is not helping.
I was not talking about this thread only. and to be clear, I said " I find that many are stuck on the idea that Israel has a right to defend itself because Hamas killed about 1400 people and kidnapped another 200 on October 7th, which I have to agree is an atrocity". People are stuck on that idea, and if that is what they are thinking, it is an atrocity. I didn't say that is what I think. I am hoping to get people stuck in that thinking to re-think the situation. Most of the time we just end up not talking about it or not talking to each other any more. I hope to try to keep the lines of communication open so that there is some chance of getting people to see things differently.
I live in Canada and while I think our government is subservient to the US government, as are many other governments, I don't think the people of Canada are subservient to the US government or to the Canadian government, at least not willingly. We all have stuff imposed on us though, like youtube disallowing comments not supportive of Israel. While I have noted that some in these substack comments seem to find the people of countries responsible for their governments behaviour, I don't agree with that thinking.
I read Grayzone quite often. I think most of the reporting in that publication is excellent. I particularly like Max Blumenthal
One of the fundamental reasons this atrocity is happening is that the US and Israel are used to acting with impunity and have done so for decades.
"As America is determined to wage war on the world, the world must be more determined than ever to wage peace and civility, up to and including sanctioning the US. A good starting point is for governments around the world to sever diplomatic relations.
Bullying empires will continue to bully until such time as they are challenged and held to account. Unless the world community shows great solidarity and indignation in response to this atrocity the worst is yet to come ."
"A good starting point is for governments around the world to sever diplomatic relations." That's cheered me up no end! Simple! Pick a date and dedicate it to Palestine. Give maximum publicity to this day that we all begin to sever all diplomatic relations to the U$ofA and israel. Their [imaginary] dollar needs to be more seriously weakened by BRICS, etc. Cut them down to size. I like it! Time to start winning. On (y)our marks! Get set! GO!!
... a quote from my most recent blog.
"Unless the world community shows great solidarity and indignation in response to this atrocity the worst is yet to come"
I'm noticing a distinct change in the MSM spin, there is all of a sudden there seems a back-off from full-scale Gaza annihilation. Bombed-out hospitals, ambulances, and whole cities not looking so good on the TeeVee.
I think TPTB now realize that with the continued pro-Palestinian protests, that they are overplaying their hands with Israel the sole victim. Average people are scratching their heads, as in what led to the1968 Vietnam MSM watershed with Walter Cronkite et al.
God, I hope you're right!
But it's essential for us not to get complacent. Recognize how long it took to end each of the wars we've protested. Remember how they don't concede arguments -- they double, triple, and quadruple down, in hybrid warfare, until finally crushed by the weight of near-universal opposition. This will absolutely be a drawn-out confrontation, requiring us to conserve energy and stay resilient.
some people think that saying what you think is bratty if you are a kid
I have deliberately looked at as many photos and videos as I can of the body parts and horrific injuries of the dead, of burnt infants and a couple of little toddler's legs that were all that was left of the child to be buried. I have shared some of them. The mainstream news media all say "we can't show you these videos because they are too graphic". Well they SHOULD show them. People need to see the results of massive bombing. Especially here in the west, the public is too sheltered from the results of their politicians' wars. Show the pictures. Show the videos. Force people to look!
Over 11,000 people in Gaza are dead or missing beneath the rubble.That includes 4,000 children. 26,000 are wounded.
132 Palestinians, including 41 children, have been killed by Israeli soldiers and illegal settlers in the past month. 2,000 have been ‘transferred’ from their homes to prison, swelling the prisoner population to 5,000.
If only Mainstream Media (MSM) would show unfiltered pictures of the little corpses I’ve seen, more people would protest, and this war would end.
Those countries supporting IDF atrocities will not be forgiven. Violence begets violence. I expect years of terror ahead… and more European holiday homes in South Africa. In Israel, Netanhayu and the right-wing supporting his corruption, will not be forgiven for the hostages he’s bombing.
What I’m less certain of, but hoping most for, is that Gaza gets rebuilt better. The Arab world will not be alone in that charitable desire.
How can Gaza possibly be “built back better” after the torture these people have endured?
Are you forgetting the psychological aspects?
Gaza is more than bombed-out buildings.
The people of Gaza will NEVER EVER FORGET THIS.
Netanyahu, Biden, US Congress, immoral beings!😡 NOT IN MY NAME IS A CHILD HARMED, GENOCIDE DONE!
It's the Distant-Death-Machine, or Death by Distance. Remote Control "sanitizes" the killing field, especially when the slain are seen as people of an inferior race, which is almost always the case. Hints of pushback here and there in the West. People need to realize that "We are all Palestinians," and what's happening to them today (not to mention for decades) will happen to you tomorrow.
During the Vietnam War, the USAF studied the feelings of combat air crews towards the bombing campaigns they had conducted.
Not surprisingly, B52 crews, who flew at high altitudes and could barely see their targets, much less the people they were killing via carpet bombing, were the least affected. It was just another job.
Crews of close air support aircraft, who flew at treetop height and could sometimes see the faces of the people that they bombed, were the most troubled.
Nowadays, most ground attack is via standoff weapons and remotely operated drones.
Draw your own conclusions.
And even still we hear reports of drone operators becoming really fucked up.
I wonder why...
indeed, imo, the grave mistake people make, is they think that they will be save from the next onslaught when they don't speak up about this one. but, i think the mass-murdering logic is not inherently racist or minority focused. it will murder 'its own' with the same vigor and brutality to serve certain interests.
Biden sez Cluster Bombs are A-Okay when used responsibly.
And emptied US stockpile into Ukraine.
Now he can order more and take 10% Commission.
What a Jack-Ass.
If beheading babies with blades is bad, how is beheading babies with bombs any better?
(Rhetorical question)
I expect they weigh the options in the balance as to which is more painful then pursue that course but they'll probably head for the industrial scale mass extermination MOAB bulldozer approach because they're bored with ordinary sadism after so many decades of experimenting with it.
Or worse?
..saddest part of all of this majority 'westerners' don't care about killings!, they will go to Bar, Restaurants, Airports fly and watch on TV news sport and continue eat, drink and blahber : what, where and sipp another beer with slice a pizza or chicken wings, oops BBQ ribs... but it will change one day and then............I'll stop here, it is too much already!...
Thousands of pro-Palestinian protesters gather in DC, NY, London, as Israel bombs Gaza, and they did the same in many countries world wide and in America. I don't know if it will make a difference, but I certainly hope so.
ok, USA 340 million people, nato about 870, million, + majority silent countries! my point thousands are not ......or 100 thousands are not sufficient!....majority are the problems, on top of everything they keep voting same garbage in to W. or eu B......
You don't have to inform me on this issue. I was very active in the anti-war movement in the US. I marched, and marched against the war in Iraq, wrote letters, called, belonged to groups who actively spoke out against our many middle eastern wars, as many did. Did we stop it, no. America had an agenda, and all those Middle Eastern wars were preplanned before 9/11. Watch Wesley Clark discuss that, seven wars preplanned even before we went into Afghanistan. A neocon agenda that killed and displaced millions and most, almost all Americans went about their business, not given it a thought. I heard people say, who cares about Muslims. A therapist, Jewish, told me they should kill all Muslims and I asked her, "Babies too?" and she said, "Oh, yes!" A drop out nun, made the same claim, I never spoke to them again. Sick bastards! That agenda, a neocon agenda that drove those wars is the reason we are using Ukraine to bring Russia down. Trump wasn't perfect by any means, but he wanted to get along with Russia, but it wasn't part of the American agenda, and too many on the left abetted the democrats in that regard. It was just good to see people out there trying to make a difference today.
... exactly my point, I was in Paris 1975, you have to see Champs Elysee!, and peace was signed!... but unfortunately 'eu' (and US) inbreds learn and today we have results! ...k. schwab( with msm, CFR, WHO!) work hard to enslave good % of earth!....
What are you trying to say here? I'm sure as hell not going to read that article. All I know is that during the 21st century there was war after war, and no war under Trump. It was a relaxing four years in that regard, except the non-stop anti-Trump rhetoric which continues. So is Biden, your hero, or how about Cheney and Bush? May they rot in hell for all those they have slaughtered. Spare me this shit, and it is.
Who is a senior fellow at the Brooking's institute? Kagan, Robert Kagan, married to Nuland, neocons all with an agenda that is pushing the war in Russia and everywhere else during the 21st century? Didn't you hear her on the phone in 2014 deciding after we supported a bunch of neo-nazi's who should run the government of Ukraine and Obama then put's Biden in charge, and gets his son a job. Those Kagans, you are quoting are neocon scum?
here's another reason why empire doesn't like unions: https://www.therevolutionreport.org/news-1/workers-can-stop-the-war
(some unions in greece also did this in the ukraine-conflict i vaguely remember - of course no attention in the msm).
Living here in the heart of the beast, and you nailed it. Intelligent, gritty analysis. Alexis de Tocqueville has nothing on you. What a voice.
from Portland, Oregon
I hope you are one of the few who joined the Portland Peace and Justice Works peace marches every Friday at Pioneer Square. If not, next week! Last week was their 22nd anniversary. https://www.pjw.info/friday_rally4_up1023generic.pdf
Very interesting from Finkelstein this morning https://rumble.com/v3tqszy-norman-finkelstein-on-israels-brutal-war-on-gaza.html the cause of Gaza is almost certainly lost. we are watching a genocide in front of our eyes. But we still speak, because it could be the rare occasion when right beats might but also because we cannot pretend, and still live with ourselves, that we didn't see what we saw.
Yes you are absolutely right, the Empire has made Iran, Russia and BRICS ties stronger than ever. I think the Empire will die and multipolarity and the BRI will have its chance.
But I don't think we can stop the genocide of Palestine.
🙏🏽
Finkelstein says, and I agree with him, that it's all theatre. America can say that they asked for a humanitarian pause 'see we tried, we're nice people; they wouldn't listen'. Apparently Obama got a temporary ceasefire specially so that his inauguration wouldn't be spoiled; cynical as hell. Then they were allowed to start the bombing again. The Biden regime doesn't want peace nor a Palestinian state, they're for all for Israel. Otherwise they'd stop the $billions in funding which Israel won't last long without.
Say the Palestinians are exterminated or pushed into Sinai in the next few months, it will all be forgotten by election time Finkelstein recons. I think that's likely.
I was referring to the BRI not only as infrastructure but as the initiative that invests in other countries to the mutual benefit of China and all countries. I know it's not a political party; it's more of a global movement.
Richard Medhurst is saying that other reasons why Israel wants Gaza include the gas off its coast as well as to form part of the Empire's (doomed) rival to the BRI.
Our refusal to get on board the economy love train just because it's not our baby is yet another reason why we're going down the pan.
100% correct.
Look at what happened on 9/11! I was there! Americans went crazy and out came all the flags.
American's don't get bombed OTHERS do by Americans.
you forget the main point
. . . bombs are the most effective at making giant profits for the arms manufacturers . . .
The profit margin for one dead Palestinian child is enormous & obscene.
I think we'd all agree Britain is one of the most evil, violent nations on the planet.
But during the Ulster "Troubles" when Irish 'terrorist' bombs were killing civilians in London and Manchester, nobody said carpet bomb Dublin or Belfast to get to the RA.
I personally supported the IRA and still do.
Here’s the thing: the Irish are white, and there are enormous numbers of Irish-Americans.
Ireland is the world’s #1 supporter of the Palestinian people for good reason : they know occupation.
And yes, I have friends in Ireland, and have been there twice, and if say anything negative about the IRA you’re a dead man.
If they'll do this [https://x.com/DomeLord/status/1721117149538791505?s=20] to their very own babies (without anaesthetic, I may add) then the babies of their perceived 'enemies' in the whole of the rest of the world stand no chance whatsoever. It's the unhinged elders responsible who need bringing to book for what has been now many centuries of vile child abuse. No ifs or buts, my shout is that 'Child abusers belong in prison'!
https://x.com/DomeLord/status/1721117149538791505?s=20
I think about it all the time. Since we are so unable to do anything to stop it you feel impotent. It’s horrifying what’s going on there and I just can’t imagine what it is like to be bombed as they are being with no escape. No bomb shelters. No warnings. Just trapped in buildings or on the street
I'm not in the US and have done plenty in Australia to make view points known. I don't feel fear thanks for the thought but I do feel sad for those being slaughtered.
If justice and national karma was instant. Those pictures are what a large American city would like tomorrow . 9-11 was nothing
It NEEDS to happen, Glen.
I suggest we begin with the DC Sewer and Noo Yawk City.
That’s the problem in this country. We’ve seen no war on our soil since 1864.