261 Comments

I got over the notion that bombs were better in 1966 when I was at an anti war rally in NYC and they had a life size picture of the little Vietnamese girl running naked down the road with napalm on her back. And another with a young boy, his skin on his face melted down around his jaw and neck. I nearly collapsed in horror. The depravity of those bombs is beyond endurance. And then you remember Hiroshima and Nagasaki. There seems to be no end to the things the military industrial complex is capable of in my country. And all you booby countries that so tritely go along with us.

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What is shocking is for so many people, these images are no longer shocking. Mass media and endless war films have desensitised them.

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And video games, many featuring the player as the killer, or these ones I now see where you are supposed to “save” someone, but of course you fail. At some point you become inured to their cries, and maybe all signs of suffering.

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And yet EVERY TIME anyone points at violent games as ruiners of compassion, someone will jump to say “nah.” Because that’s what they WANT to believe. We reap what we sow, both outside and inside ourselves.

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we used to ask about the graphic, violent video games whenever someone committed a mass killing. And the reply was always , “They don’t cause violence! Studies have been done!” And bingo, they’re off the hook.

But let’s not stop at video games. In the US, we’ve seen a puritanical culling of nudity from all entertainment, and replaced with vivid violence. In the 80s, every movie had at least one token boob shot. Now it’s at least one token shot of someone begging for their life before getting their brains blown out. And these movies just get a PG-13 rating. Even prime time TV is loaded with it. Yet nobody talks about it because “studies have been done.”

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Nov 5, 2023·edited Nov 5, 2023

Conflict is basic to a good story. It's interesting how video games are always the first target of people advocating censorship. But entertainment from books to movies to even football - and boxing ring fights - people have inherently found of interest.

In fact, all drama is fundamentally based on "conflict" - a good story must have some kind of tension, some kind of protagonist and antagonist - and a war story of course has plenty of this sort of dramatic conflict.

People even enjoy horror films - they go to see them deliberately. JAWS by Steven Spielberg was about a shark that ate people. The Exorcist was about a little girl possessed by the devil and doing all sorts of things - and people went to see it.

I think the problem is here - those who would attempt to publicly censor others from reading certain books, or playing certain video games etc. will argue that the books and the games and the movies will lead to more violence, and more immoral choices. The Censorship argument is founded on fear, and wanting to control - the fear that people cannot discriminate between what is a game and what is real life. That the two will be conflated and we're all better off with more censorship.

So the plethora of studies on the subject are marginalized or ignored showing there really is no correlation between the games people play, and the horror movies so many watch, or the war movies like Steven Spielberg's masterpiece "Saving Private Ryan" and the real life enactment of such horrors. If anything, the horrors visibly demonstrated in many of these types of movies or books - provide a teaching moment to those experiencing the drama vicariously.

What is also often ignored by the Book Censor advocates - who are usually the same advocates who want to censor video games - are the real underlying causes of violence in life - which in most cases have nothing to do with video games, or board games or the movies we watch. The violence has more to do with those who want to control others - Censor what they say and do - and are willing to do "whatever it takes" to control the lives of other people, what they say, what they experience, what they read and do. Control is often at the root of the desire of power. To control others in order to reach your means to an end. Another source of violence is the correlation of high poverty with violence - and/or the injustice we see in the world, particularly the injustice that have been visited upon the Palestinians now for decades - while the Censors of the US and the Mass Media will censor out the injustices as best they can - because it does not serve the corrupt Power and Control interests of US empire and a greed based society - where everyone is suppose to fend for themselves. A society based on competition and lack of empathy, rather than cooperation/collaboration and respecting human life.

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Injustice, economic and otherwise, is a driver of violence, because people react badly to being treated badly. But your “censorship” defense is slippery slope and straw man argument. Why do we “censor” robbery? Murder? Rape? Because of the horrific damage of such behavior. Yet you insist that “studies” show people who enjoy being “entertained” by seeing those destructive behaviors are “not influenced at all, they have their character IMPROVED by seeing others murdered, raped, and dismembered.”

And yet the world continues to slide into chaos.

No connection at all, of course.

I’m not buying what you’re selling.

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Agree, Joy.

Maybe that’s the purpose of these horrible video games: to desensitize our youth to what we’re perpetrating.

My grandchildren are NOT allowed to play them.

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If one deliberately invented a game to do just that, I think it would look exactly like what we’re seeing. However, in the drive for profit, all considerations of humanity are by necessity removed from the equation, and it’s possible to arrive at the same place without ever actually intending it.

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Which games are you referring to specifically?

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Oh hell, I don’t know the names of them! All I recall is that my ex-son in law used to play some that were truly frightening, and my daughter forbade him from playing them when the kids were around.

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How do you know? I have a friend who is a nun who works hard on social justice issues, more than most, who can’t talk about Gaza, she just cries. She can’t go to rallies with me. She’s immobilized by her grief. You don’t know. Quit judging every body else and look in the mirror. Are YOU doing all you can for Gaza? Are you doing anything?

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Am I doing anything? I’m a 67 year old Palestinian. You decide. Being paralysed with grief doesn’t help, though totally understandable. But you’re correct, not everyone.

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...and they call it entertainment.

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Yes. And a sea change in war reporting happened between 1975 Vietnam and 1991 Kuwait.

The neocons finally rose to the top of power (looking at you Cheney and Rumsfeld, operatives in Ford's and then Reagan's obviously captive regimes), coordinating with a now-fully-captured MSM (I mean, Disney? Disney Entertainment? WTF is going on there?), and actually representative war photos by actual free-range journalists covering atrocities in America's wars became a thing of the past.

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That was because there was a big study after the Vietnam war that found that press coverage of the carnage on TV news every night turned more middle class people off to the war than the 200,000 person marches did. Populations START desensitized, they don’t have to be trained to it. Look at those lapdogs Canada and Australia—they don’t seem to have a video game issue and they don’t cut each other down with AK’s daily. Yet they are no more opposed to the bombing of Gaza than most of the “desensitized” US is.

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Exactly!

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It's almost as if TV programmes people ...

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Well said, and good to have brought up that famous picture of the little Vietnamese girl.

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Like Canada.... our PM almost said the c-word in a public speech but remembered at the last minute that the US wouldn’t like that and said ‘humanitarian pause’ instead. I only wish we had a leader that wasn’t using his position to only further his rise up the ladder of the military industrial complex.

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Perfectly said.

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Sorry to be out of touch: what's the c-word?

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I’m thinking Ceasefire from the context. And because Trudeau is such lame ass.

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Hi Jeano

I recall that iconic photograph well; it was on the cover of Time.

A number of years ago the very same little girl, by then a young woman, was interviewed on a television show. Her spirit of forgiveness was humbling and tear-inducing.

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I saw that. It’s what I love about practicing Buddhists and I’ve met a lot of them. Also I read she got some medical attention finally because the scaring on her back was so great she had a hard time moving around. I learn and learn and learn from the truly brave of our world.

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Yes - and I posted a link to that photo and the self immolating Buddhist monk and the point blank military assassination iconic photos of the Vietnam atrocity just a few days ago. They moved the world. Today? The world celebrates them and asks for more.

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Like Canada....Trudeau almost slipped up and said the c-word in a speech but at the last moment remembered that the US wouldn’t like that and changed it to ‘humanitarian pause’. I only wish that we had a leader that wasn’t using his political career as the leader of our beautiful country as a step up the ladder of the military industrial complex.

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When I am talking to people, I find that many are stuck on the idea that Israel has a right to defend itself because Hamas killed about 1400 people and kidnapped another 200 on October 17th, which I have to agree is an atrocity. But they don't hear about the 75 years of oppression that Palestinians have endured. They don't hear that about 10,000 people in Gaza have been killed in the past 3 weeks. They don't hear that Israelis are killing one Palestinian child every 15 minutes. I don't think they hear that it is bombs being dropped on hospitals to get to one member of Hamas. I don't think it would really make a difference if the Israelis were going into hospitals with swords and guns and stabbing and shooting everyone. I think they just hear that Israel has the right to avenge itself. Just like America had the right to avenge itself after 911. Never mind that they avenge themselves against people who have done nothing to them.

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Israel is not "defending itself". It has been the aggressor since 1948.

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and as an occupying force, Israel has no "right to self defense". That so called "right" is all sham propaganda.

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yep

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The "occupied Gaza strip", the "Occupied West Bank" have been so for decades.

In fact, Israel has no right to "defend itself" because according to the law, citizens of occupied lands have every right to try to purge the occupiers.

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Here's one to break out the popcorn for: https://www.thefp.com/p/the-great-betrayal

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“ Hamas killed about 1400 people”

You seem to have forgotten that of those 1400 the ZioNazi "soldiers" killed 100s themselves when 7 hours after the attack they arrived on the scene with guns blazing and blasting anything and anybody that moved.

So, when you say “may are stuck on the idea" you are "stuck" too — no offense meant.

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Yes - check out Grayzone for reports based on Israeli media Haaaretz - far fewer than 1400 dead have been identified and a huge percentage were military, police and militia, not "civilians" (and no dead babies either).

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Good point, thank you 👍

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I read Grayzone quite often. I think most of the reporting in that publication is excellent. I particularly like Max Blumenthal

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Also 1,500 Israeli’s in the streets protesting against Nuttyyahoo!

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Right on, Che!

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I think it is better to keep it simple. Murdering thousands of civilians in retaliation is enough horror. If people don't understand that is a crime against humanity, if they don't hear what I am saying then, they won't hear any better with that additional information.

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Oh I heard what you are saying alright, in fact I heard exactly what you are saying, but unfortunately it seems you are not hearing yourself, AND you are deflecting from the point in my previous reply.

To briefly address your deflection, nobody questions the morality, or rather lack thereof, of murdering 1000s of civilians, nobody questions that it is a crime against humanity. However, what I do question is you repeating the wrong numbers put out by ZioNAZI Rothschildistan.

There is no need for me to repeat reality, all I am saying is that using the numbers of that depraved, sick, deeply racist sewer, you are helping to spread their vicious disinfo. In other words, in a way you are helping to whitewash the crime against humanity you claim to be against.

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I don't actually spread anything. I don't talk about how many people were or were not killed in the Hamas attack. I am only trying to get people to see that killing thousands of civilians, almost half of them children, is wrong, a crime against humanity, way too much even if Hamas did exactly what the Israeli's said. It is a topic about which people get extremely heated. I want to get people to look at it more widely. Bringing up too many things at once will accomplish even less than bringing up the topic at all. And you are wrong that nobody questions the morality of murdering all those civilians. There are people who really think that Israel is justified to be doing what they are doing. The mainstream media is not helping.

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Susan—good work. We struggled with this during the Vietnam war peace movement. Some wanted to be like Che and go AT it, some wanted to do as you’re doing. I say, all approaches will work, and thank you for doing it.

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“I don't actually spread anything.”

That's what I mean when I say you don't hear yourself speak.

“ I don't talk about how many people were or were not killed in the Hamas attack.”

YES YOU DID! You said 1400 people were killed by Hamas — read your own OP.

“I am only trying to get people to see that killing thousands of civilians, almost half of them children, is wrong, a crime against humanity”

No need to do that, nobody here is arguing anything else

“Bringing up too many things at once will accomplish even less than bringing up the topic at all.”

You are absolutely right, however nobody is doing that. All i did was point out an inconsistency in your OP. Your reaction is to deflect, you refuse to admit.

“There are people who really think that Israel is justified to be doing what they are doing.”

Again, you are absolutely right, however I did not claim there are no such people, I only said there are no such people here, i.e. in this thread.

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I was not talking about this thread only. and to be clear, I said " I find that many are stuck on the idea that Israel has a right to defend itself because Hamas killed about 1400 people and kidnapped another 200 on October 7th, which I have to agree is an atrocity". People are stuck on that idea, and if that is what they are thinking, it is an atrocity. I didn't say that is what I think. I am hoping to get people stuck in that thinking to re-think the situation. Most of the time we just end up not talking about it or not talking to each other any more. I hope to try to keep the lines of communication open so that there is some chance of getting people to see things differently.

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One thing I’ll say tho is that getting this kind of information takes time and a lot of well meaning people don’t have that time. It’s why I like this comment section—after the shame and blame game (or arguing with Timmy😄😝) we actually share good information here, people who can do links are especially helpful. It’s like our own little newspaper here. I often wish Caitlin would talk more about Aussies and what egregious contributions her country is making to this genocide. The more information we get, the more we can figure out what to do do about it.

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Good point, Jeano. Yes, as part of the Five Eyes Australia as an egregious, reprehensible actor too, albeit in a position that is subservient to the U.S.

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Yes. I don’t get that subservience. I’m not as subservient to my government as they seem to be. And I have more reason to be—I’m subject to their punishment, Aussie’s aren’t.

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I live in Canada and while I think our government is subservient to the US government, as are many other governments, I don't think the people of Canada are subservient to the US government or to the Canadian government, at least not willingly. We all have stuff imposed on us though, like youtube disallowing comments not supportive of Israel. While I have noted that some in these substack comments seem to find the people of countries responsible for their governments behaviour, I don't agree with that thinking.

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Nov 5, 2023·edited Nov 5, 2023

"[Israel] avenge[s] themselves against people who have done nothing to them."

Oh, apologists for Israel will go back to 1948 and claim that the new European migrants back then were just sitting there on completely empty plots of land completely minding their own business, having left the actual theatre of the actual driving offenses, having been given authoritative permission by authoritative colonial controllers, when bloodthirsty primitives spontaneously went mad (after many years of locals of differing religions living peacefully side-by-side) due to their bloodthirsty religion (an Abrahamic one, no less).

So, are they saying it's in the Arab genes? There's word for that. Is it in the water of the Levant? Yet they are curiously immune. And on and on and on. The whole decades-long campaign strains credulity beyond the breakpoint.

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"There is a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can't take part! You can't even passively take part! And you've got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels ... upon the levers, upon all the apparatus, and you've got to make it stop!"

--Mario Savio, 1964, a founder of Free Speech Movement

I trust that many of us who "put [our] bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels" are feeling the effects of the machine personally. This thing is a monster. In the computer age, it is a snap to target people individually, and it does. It wants to kill us, this threat to their system, and we (will) need to be willing to visibly sacrifice as examples our anti-violence livelihoods and lives. That is the word to spread.

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I love that Savio quote! And his machine metaphor was inspired by Thoreau, who wrote:

http://www.wolfenotes.com/2010/04/tax-day-essay-on-civil-disobedience/

"If one were to tell me that this were a bad government because it taxed certain foreign commodities brought to its ports, it is most probably that I should not make an ado about it, for I can do without them. All machines have their friction; and possibly this does enough good to counterbalance the evil. … But when the friction comes to have its machine, and oppression and robbery are organized, I say, let us not have such a machine any longer. In other words, when a sixth of the population of a nation which has undertaken to be the refuge of liberty are slaves, and a whole country is unjustly overrun, and conquered by a foreign army, and subjected to military law, I think that it is not too soon for honest men to rebel and revolutionize. What makes this duty the more urgent is the fact, that the country so over-run is not our own, but ours is the invading army." (Civil Disobedience)

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Thanks for this source quote, bill wolfe. It looks like a good example of how a societal system developed by insufficient consciousness can become a monster. At that point, the sufficiently conscious ("honest men to rebel and revolutionize") have hard work to get to, and often it takes decades and heavy costs to overcome. So Savio quoted and discusses it somewhere? I'm not well-educated about him.

I'm also leery of wars that are internally-generated in societies and nations. Much social and political friction is precisely the result of that eternal insufficient consciousness, in all individuals on any or multiple sides. Accordingly, when some unconscious are attacked by the conscious for their cruelty *prior* to reasonable efforts at proven-successful methods in diplomacy, we can *always* expect pushback, including violence as well as closing of minds. Closing of minds means only war will proceed. The Machiavelian monsters in TPTB understand this, and use it. And so now we have it gathering steam again.

This is how I believe the Left-Right came, tragically, to war against each other, now for moree than a century and a half, when they are actually at root each necessary components (supporting societal and individual welfare, respectively) of functioning human society. Today, this war is treated as something wholly natural and perpetual.

The only exceptions I see to the possibility of social integration are sociopathy/psychopathy, which are largely immutable characteristics of the brain/body, no matter whether nature or nurture caused. Society must adequately insulate itself from anti-social behavior, without punishing these people by the reason of "evil", IMO, a primitive, magical, even at root meaningless, but thoroughly destructive concept that is gathering new steam.

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Yet I still sometimes use the word "evil" myself, as I don't know of a good substitute for conscious extreme anti-social attitude and behavior, but without the religious, immutable, "magical" aspect.

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Anti again—I read a guy named Seth of Jane Roberts fame and he says there is no evil, only ignorance. It was hard to get my head around that, especially as I had to fit in Hitler and Hiroshima to that idea, but I pretty much see it now—after 40 years of trying. He also says the only point of suffering is to teach us to give up suffering. And THAT applies 100%to Gaza, in my humble fucking opinion! The people there are making a great sacrifice to free themselves from suffering.

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Omg, another Seth reader! My mom introduced me to him. "Seth Speaks". I'm an atheist but if anything had a chance of being true, this would be the one, imo.

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Nov 5, 2023·edited Nov 5, 2023

Thank you for this pointer, I'll check him out

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Thank you Anti for this quote. I heard it in 1964 when I was 20 and it changed my life. It’s so scary and dangerous to try to live by and I failed many times to be as brave as I wanted to be but it still puts tears in my eyes when I read it.

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I find that there are people who perfectly parrot the talking points fed to them by MSM because they just plainly believe what they're told. Sad but happening all the time.

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Brilliant. And of course there are the—I won’t call them whores, whores are too good to be compared to these “journalists” who repeat knee-jerk like the statement that Hamas did this bad thing 1st and Israel blahdy blahdy blah!

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I think that too many journalists have gone to university with the same people in whose interests it is to promote more wars, sell more military equipment and ammunition etc. It was probably better when journalists were more self educated and just took a few courses in how to write, take photos and make their points. I am not saying that all journalists have this problem. I am saying that some journalists may have this problem.

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One of the fundamental reasons this atrocity is happening is that the US and Israel are used to acting with impunity and have done so for decades.

"As America is determined to wage war on the world, the world must be more determined than ever to wage peace and civility, up to and including sanctioning the US. A good starting point is for governments around the world to sever diplomatic relations.

Bullying empires will continue to bully until such time as they are challenged and held to account. Unless the world community shows great solidarity and indignation in response to this atrocity the worst is yet to come ."

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"A good starting point is for governments around the world to sever diplomatic relations." That's cheered me up no end! Simple! Pick a date and dedicate it to Palestine. Give maximum publicity to this day that we all begin to sever all diplomatic relations to the U$ofA and israel. Their [imaginary] dollar needs to be more seriously weakened by BRICS, etc. Cut them down to size. I like it! Time to start winning. On (y)our marks! Get set! GO!!

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... a quote from my most recent blog.

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"Unless the world community shows great solidarity and indignation in response to this atrocity the worst is yet to come"

I'm noticing a distinct change in the MSM spin, there is all of a sudden there seems a back-off from full-scale Gaza annihilation. Bombed-out hospitals, ambulances, and whole cities not looking so good on the TeeVee.

I think TPTB now realize that with the continued pro-Palestinian protests, that they are overplaying their hands with Israel the sole victim. Average people are scratching their heads, as in what led to the1968 Vietnam MSM watershed with Walter Cronkite et al.

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God, I hope you're right!

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Nov 5, 2023·edited Nov 5, 2023

But it's essential for us not to get complacent. Recognize how long it took to end each of the wars we've protested. Remember how they don't concede arguments -- they double, triple, and quadruple down, in hybrid warfare, until finally crushed by the weight of near-universal opposition. This will absolutely be a drawn-out confrontation, requiring us to conserve energy and stay resilient.

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I’m hoping that this time Iran has some real sway with world opinion. I think their treaty with Saudi Arabia thru the auspices of China is partly what made Hamas go ahead with the invasion. And Russia’s careful support of Syria will help back Israel down as the US is seeing it can’t support Israel’s attacks in Syria (Golan Heights). This could be a good result from terrible suffering.

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Last two paragraphs are quoted - who said that?

And yes, if parents do not discipline a child that is showing bratty tendencies then I don't envy those parents. And they should blame themselves for the outcome, too.

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some people think that saying what you think is bratty if you are a kid

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I have deliberately looked at as many photos and videos as I can of the body parts and horrific injuries of the dead, of burnt infants and a couple of little toddler's legs that were all that was left of the child to be buried. I have shared some of them. The mainstream news media all say "we can't show you these videos because they are too graphic". Well they SHOULD show them. People need to see the results of massive bombing. Especially here in the west, the public is too sheltered from the results of their politicians' wars. Show the pictures. Show the videos. Force people to look!

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Over 11,000 people in Gaza are dead or missing beneath the rubble.That includes 4,000 children. 26,000 are wounded.

132 Palestinians, including 41 children, have been killed by Israeli soldiers and illegal settlers in the past month. 2,000 have been ‘transferred’ from their homes to prison, swelling the prisoner population to 5,000.

If only Mainstream Media (MSM) would show unfiltered pictures of the little corpses I’ve seen, more people would protest, and this war would end.

Those countries supporting IDF atrocities will not be forgiven. Violence begets violence. I expect years of terror ahead… and more European holiday homes in South Africa. In Israel, Netanhayu and the right-wing supporting his corruption, will not be forgiven for the hostages he’s bombing.

What I’m less certain of, but hoping most for, is that Gaza gets rebuilt better. The Arab world will not be alone in that charitable desire.

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How can Gaza possibly be “built back better” after the torture these people have endured?

Are you forgetting the psychological aspects?

Gaza is more than bombed-out buildings.

The people of Gaza will NEVER EVER FORGET THIS.

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Netanyahu, Biden, US Congress, immoral beings!😡 NOT IN MY NAME IS A CHILD HARMED, GENOCIDE DONE!

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It's the Distant-Death-Machine, or Death by Distance. Remote Control "sanitizes" the killing field, especially when the slain are seen as people of an inferior race, which is almost always the case. Hints of pushback here and there in the West. People need to realize that "We are all Palestinians," and what's happening to them today (not to mention for decades) will happen to you tomorrow.

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During the Vietnam War, the USAF studied the feelings of combat air crews towards the bombing campaigns they had conducted.

Not surprisingly, B52 crews, who flew at high altitudes and could barely see their targets, much less the people they were killing via carpet bombing, were the least affected. It was just another job.

Crews of close air support aircraft, who flew at treetop height and could sometimes see the faces of the people that they bombed, were the most troubled.

Nowadays, most ground attack is via standoff weapons and remotely operated drones.

Draw your own conclusions.

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And even still we hear reports of drone operators becoming really fucked up.

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I wonder why...

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indeed, imo, the grave mistake people make, is they think that they will be save from the next onslaught when they don't speak up about this one. but, i think the mass-murdering logic is not inherently racist or minority focused. it will murder 'its own' with the same vigor and brutality to serve certain interests.

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Biden sez Cluster Bombs are A-Okay when used responsibly.

And emptied US stockpile into Ukraine.

Now he can order more and take 10% Commission.

What a Jack-Ass.

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Nov 5, 2023·edited Nov 5, 2023

If beheading babies with blades is bad, how is beheading babies with bombs any better?

(Rhetorical question)

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I expect they weigh the options in the balance as to which is more painful then pursue that course but they'll probably head for the industrial scale mass extermination MOAB bulldozer approach because they're bored with ordinary sadism after so many decades of experimenting with it.

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Or worse?

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..saddest part of all of this majority 'westerners' don't care about killings!, they will go to Bar, Restaurants, Airports fly and watch on TV news sport and continue eat, drink and blahber : what, where and sipp another beer with slice a pizza or chicken wings, oops BBQ ribs... but it will change one day and then............I'll stop here, it is too much already!...

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Thousands of pro-Palestinian protesters gather in DC, NY, London, as Israel bombs Gaza, and they did the same in many countries world wide and in America. I don't know if it will make a difference, but I certainly hope so.

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ok, USA 340 million people, nato about 870, million, + majority silent countries! my point thousands are not ......or 100 thousands are not sufficient!....majority are the problems, on top of everything they keep voting same garbage in to W. or eu B......

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You don't have to inform me on this issue. I was very active in the anti-war movement in the US. I marched, and marched against the war in Iraq, wrote letters, called, belonged to groups who actively spoke out against our many middle eastern wars, as many did. Did we stop it, no. America had an agenda, and all those Middle Eastern wars were preplanned before 9/11. Watch Wesley Clark discuss that, seven wars preplanned even before we went into Afghanistan. A neocon agenda that killed and displaced millions and most, almost all Americans went about their business, not given it a thought. I heard people say, who cares about Muslims. A therapist, Jewish, told me they should kill all Muslims and I asked her, "Babies too?" and she said, "Oh, yes!" A drop out nun, made the same claim, I never spoke to them again. Sick bastards! That agenda, a neocon agenda that drove those wars is the reason we are using Ukraine to bring Russia down. Trump wasn't perfect by any means, but he wanted to get along with Russia, but it wasn't part of the American agenda, and too many on the left abetted the democrats in that regard. It was just good to see people out there trying to make a difference today. 

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"[Trump] he wanted to get along with Russia"

That is factually false. Trump's actual record on Russia was more hawkish and aggressive than many people understand. Please stop the lies.

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Nov 5, 2023·edited Nov 5, 2023

Who is a senior fellow at the Brooking's institute? Kagan, Robert Kagan, married to Nuland, neocons all with an agenda that is pushing the war in Russia and everywhere else during the 21st century? Didn't you hear her on the phone in 2014 deciding after we supported a bunch of neo-nazi's who should run the government of Ukraine and Obama then put's Biden in charge, and gets his son a job. Those Kagans, you are quoting are neocon scum?

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Don't let facts get in the way. Just smear the source. Right.

I know exactly who Brookings Institution is - a Neoliberal beltway think tank. I only used their factual summary of the Trump Russia record because it was quicker and easier than doing the work myself.

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Thank you 🙏

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... exactly my point, I was in Paris 1975, you have to see Champs Elysee!, and peace was signed!... but unfortunately 'eu' (and US) inbreds learn and today we have results! ...k. schwab( with msm, CFR, WHO!) work hard to enslave good % of earth!....

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Here are the facts - US withdrawal from the INF Treaty was a really bad move (plus lots of sanctions):

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/on-the-record-the-u-s-administrations-actions-on-russia/

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O please, the puppet masters had been trying to get presidents to withdraw from that treaty for decades.

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Yes. And Trump complied.

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Nov 5, 2023·edited Nov 5, 2023

What are you trying to say here? I'm sure as hell not going to read that article. All I know is that during the 21st century there was war after war, and no war under Trump. It was a relaxing four years in that regard, except the non-stop anti-Trump rhetoric which continues. So is Biden, your hero, or how about Cheney and Bush? May they rot in hell for all those they have slaughtered. Spare me this shit, and it is.

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Of course you don't read - facts get in the way of your twisted views.

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FRAN!!! Good job. Thank you for your service. And truly we lost our way under Clinton and OBlahma. Myself, I think 911 did to us what Crystal Nacht did to Germany in the 30’s. But last night I went downtown for a rally and got lost and yelled out my window to some teenagers carrying Free Palestine placards where was the rally. All boys, about 14 with longish hair, gathered around to help me find my way. It was so beautiful. So don’t despair cuz baby it’s back!!! Maybe the US can reclaim her soul with this new generation.

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here's another reason why empire doesn't like unions: https://www.therevolutionreport.org/news-1/workers-can-stop-the-war

(some unions in greece also did this in the ukraine-conflict i vaguely remember - of course no attention in the msm).

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The good thing is, that privileged gluttony has its own price, and as the yuppies age and all that conspicuous consumption catches up with them they will have their own little private come to Jesus moments and perhaps collectively will then influence the zeitgeist away from the greediness that ran their pitiful lives.

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Caitlin, you still don't get it: the Jews claim they suffered during WW2, in fact they claims they suffered even more than they did (that's another story), so "israel" as the self-proclaimed and never endorsed representative of the Jews claims to have the right to do anything it likes.

Don't believe me? Here is what Golda Meir said to the late Knesset member Shulamit Aloni:

“After the Holocaust, Jews are allowed to do anything.”

https://mondoweiss.net/2016/02/to-my-fellow-israelis-we-can-stop-this/

International law? That's for others, most certainly not for the Chosenites who are ruled by Yahweh only.

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Here's a Ukrainian Nazi carrying the book "Golda" in his backpack: https://rumble.com/v3pn6a9--ukraine-israel-connection-soldiers-love-for-israel-tribute-to-golda-meir-r.html

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Makes sense: Golda was an über-ZioNAZI. The ZioNAZIS and neo-Nazis have always got on very well, as did the early ZioNAZIS and the 1933-45 German Nazis.

In fact, Zionsim and Nazism are 2 sides of the same coin.

Anyway, thanks for sharing this.

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ken livingstone got thrown out of the labour party for that (mentioning contacts between zionists and nazis encouraging jews to migrate to palestine - btw, a coin / medallion actually exists).

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I know. Labor and Conservatives are now 2 sides of the same coin, only the packaging and presentation are slightly different, just like the Dems and Reps in the U.S.

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Labour Party under Starmer is moving further right just like Tony Blair.

In my opinion he should not be the head of the Labour Party.

Looks like he is headed for oblivion.

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The guy is among the lowest of the lowest scum.

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On the suffering, I'm reminded of this meme: https://x.com/DomeLord/status/1721130961620910164?s=20

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Nov 5, 2023·edited Nov 5, 2023

It is not really a meme, it is factual evidence those homicidal gas chambers could not have existed.

Thanks for the link.

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Do you think Golda Meir speaks for all Jews? Do you think Biden speaks for all Christians?

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Nov 5, 2023·edited Nov 5, 2023

Nope, she most certainly does not speak for all Jews, but from her quote it is clear that SHE thinks so. ZioNAZI Rothschildistan's actions, though, show it behaves exactly according to what she said.

Biden? Who is that?

I note that you sidestep the issue I brought to your attention: you ignore that 100s of "israelis" were slaughtered by their own forces.

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Living here in the heart of the beast, and you nailed it. Intelligent, gritty analysis. Alexis de Tocqueville has nothing on you. What a voice.

from Portland, Oregon

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Nov 5, 2023·edited Nov 5, 2023

I hope you are one of the few who joined the Portland Peace and Justice Works peace marches every Friday at Pioneer Square. If not, next week! Last week was their 22nd anniversary. https://www.pjw.info/friday_rally4_up1023generic.pdf

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Very interesting from Finkelstein this morning https://rumble.com/v3tqszy-norman-finkelstein-on-israels-brutal-war-on-gaza.html the cause of Gaza is almost certainly lost. we are watching a genocide in front of our eyes. But we still speak, because it could be the rare occasion when right beats might but also because we cannot pretend, and still live with ourselves, that we didn't see what we saw.

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I still have a small hope that something good for the Palestinians will come out of this. When the U.S. imposed draconian sanctions on Iran, it made Iran stronger and the sanctions had no effect.

When sanctions several orders of magnitude greater were imposed on Russia, they backfired and Russia is now stronger than before, in every way.

I know these 2 cases are not comparable to that of the Palestinians who are now facing an existential threat, my point is: every cloud has its silver lining. Let's hope that applies here too.

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Yes you are absolutely right, the Empire has made Iran, Russia and BRICS ties stronger than ever. I think the Empire will die and multipolarity and the BRI will have its chance.

But I don't think we can stop the genocide of Palestine.

🙏🏽

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I don't know about the empire but I can say with full assurance - Russia will not lose. Whether it will win in the end is the question as has always been. There's a saying over there "we win the war but we lose the peace".

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According to Scott Ritter, the US is RIGHT NOW pressuring Israel to stop because it may cost Biden the election. Plus there are many many world talks and actions taking place that we know not of. Keep pushing!!!

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Finkelstein says, and I agree with him, that it's all theatre. America can say that they asked for a humanitarian pause 'see we tried, we're nice people; they wouldn't listen'. Apparently Obama got a temporary ceasefire specially so that his inauguration wouldn't be spoiled; cynical as hell. Then they were allowed to start the bombing again. The Biden regime doesn't want peace nor a Palestinian state, they're for all for Israel. Otherwise they'd stop the $billions in funding which Israel won't last long without.

Say the Palestinians are exterminated or pushed into Sinai in the next few months, it will all be forgotten by election time Finkelstein recons. I think that's likely.

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Yeah, the likes of @Jeano are so gullible it's embarrassing. "The US said this, there were big demonstrations over there, vote for RFK Jr (or whoever the fuck they think up) and all will be good". They're the actual enablers. The ones who believe they "make the difference". The rulers laugh at them.

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BRI will likely succeed, although it is not a political organization, it is an infrastructural project.

The political organization you may be thinking of is BRICS.

“But I don't think we can stop the genocide of Palestine.”

Do not despair yet!! Read this, which is the most serious statement of this crisis I have seen so far:

https://sputnikglobe.com/20231105/iranian-defense-minister-threatens-us-with-serious-strike-if-gaza-war-continues-1114740945.html

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I was referring to the BRI not only as infrastructure but as the initiative that invests in other countries to the mutual benefit of China and all countries. I know it's not a political party; it's more of a global movement.

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I think it is purely an infrastructural project with good investment opportunities, I don't see it as a movement. That's just my 2 cents 😀

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Richard Medhurst is saying that other reasons why Israel wants Gaza include the gas off its coast as well as to form part of the Empire's (doomed) rival to the BRI.

Our refusal to get on board the economy love train just because it's not our baby is yet another reason why we're going down the pan.

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100% correct.

Look at what happened on 9/11! I was there! Americans went crazy and out came all the flags.

American's don't get bombed OTHERS do by Americans.

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And 9-11 was "only" 3000 people, adults. 4000 children and 6000 adults butchered in Gaza is no big deal for our sanctimonious Western and some Arab masters.

In fact, if ZioNAZI Rothschildistan would manage to eliminate all the Gazans and West Bank people, the world would heave a sigh of relief: the Palestinian Problem is solved, no more headaches from them.

And, ZioNazistan would be richly rewarded afterwards, on the quiet of course.

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Nov 5, 2023·edited Nov 5, 2023

you forget the main point

. . . bombs are the most effective at making giant profits for the arms manufacturers . . .

The profit margin for one dead Palestinian child is enormous & obscene.

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I think we'd all agree Britain is one of the most evil, violent nations on the planet.

But during the Ulster "Troubles" when Irish 'terrorist' bombs were killing civilians in London and Manchester, nobody said carpet bomb Dublin or Belfast to get to the RA.

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I personally supported the IRA and still do.

Here’s the thing: the Irish are white, and there are enormous numbers of Irish-Americans.

Ireland is the world’s #1 supporter of the Palestinian people for good reason : they know occupation.

And yes, I have friends in Ireland, and have been there twice, and if say anything negative about the IRA you’re a dead man.

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Well said 👍

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If they'll do this [https://x.com/DomeLord/status/1721117149538791505?s=20] to their very own babies (without anaesthetic, I may add) then the babies of their perceived 'enemies' in the whole of the rest of the world stand no chance whatsoever. It's the unhinged elders responsible who need bringing to book for what has been now many centuries of vile child abuse. No ifs or buts, my shout is that 'Child abusers belong in prison'!

https://x.com/DomeLord/status/1721117149538791505?s=20

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