The most revealing aspect of the reality of America in the last days of this endlessly absurd election circus is how the Obamas, panderers to Wall St. criminals, murderers of millions, emerge from their elevated mansions to chastise working class, non-college-educated men for not supporting the party that colossally screwed them. Hey jerkoffs, I have two Masters and a Doctorate — but having grown up working/lower-middle class, I’m siding with those deplorables, not with you lying oligarch millionaire scumbags. You two literati illustrate the maxim that education doesn’t mean caca compared with the power of brainwashing and ultimate ethics-purchasing by big money.
I wonder how many people will vote for Democrats after Obama let banks steal their homes for pennies on the dollar?
I watched the most amazing transformation during Obama when all the anti Bush, anti war folks suddenly decided that yes indeed the war of terror must be won.
Exactly. The whole spectacle is just so absolutely disgusting. One of the side effects of AIPAC's capture of our government is that we lost any real political horizon in favor of lesser than evilism. They are literally campaigning on not being as bad as Trump. They have nothing else to offer because they sold out left ideals.
The democRats used to Love Trump, Kennedy and Reagan too
Perhaps something changed? Insanity like Men in Women's Sports? Like a Wide Open Border? Like VaXXXing children for Covid? Like castrating children into Trannies? WTFU !!!
"the Obamas, panderers to Wall St. criminals, murderers of millions, emerge from their elevated mansions to chastise working class, non-college-educated men for not supporting the party that colossally screwed them. "
I saw Barak's ad lecturing the "bros" about how they had to have racial solidarity, all in his phony attempt at bro-speak. It was obvious they weren't buying it at all. Note that the Ds couldn't even find a dozen bro fanboys. It was the most cringeworthy thing I have ever seen. I bet it didn't win a single vote. See for yourself here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVD17hg4O7o
I just donated to Jeremy Loffredo's SpotFund to help him replace his devices, which Israel has of course ruined with bugs, and to help him get out his documentary on ultra-Zionist south Bronx congressman Richie Torres (speaking of scumbags).
Only the Israeli maniacs know for sure. Thanks for donating. The GrayZone does such essential work revealing the hypocrisy of US foreign policy and its many hypocrites. And with Torres, it's a special breed of hypocrite: the guy represents the poorest congressional district in the country (or one of the poorest), and he sucks up AIPAC $$ like a champ (uh chump).
Tbf, Trump isn’t any different. We saw that from his first term. If you’re not a anting the system to be burnt to the ground, then you’re not really alleviating for any real relief to the workers. People who are willing to be slaves to this system will be slaves. But do t pretend you’re taking some sort of righteous stance by voting. Voting is a sham. There’s no power in it. It’s not revolutionary. You’re not changing any system. You’re placating your own feelings and that is all you’re doing.
So how's that bear on my original comment? I'm not advocating for Trump by shitting on the Obamas. Of course, the entire US political system is as corrupt as hell, and as Margaret Kimberley has pointed out, that fact is especially evident during presidential elections. I agree that voting changes nothing. And I recognize that as you say, my vote for Jill Stein was solely to placate myself (well said!) But if you're going to be completely honest what needs to be torn down is this fucking economic system that encourages -- fuck no, mandates --- nonstop consumption, rendering us feudal serfs to Zionist billionaires. The revolution has to start by denying these fuckers their preferred method of enslaving us. So I start by not participating in this Christmas consumption bullshit -- for example. I buy NOTHING.
That’s fair. And I agree, but we can only opt out for so long. And in any event, our totalitarian overlords have bigger plans for us aside from the old usual. But people are either going to break their chains or submit to them. There is little in between anymore.
Vote for Jill Stein. It sends a message to others that you're serious about wanting "People, Planet and Peace." And it will piss off the oligarchs. Pissing them off should be our main goal at this point. Keeps them off-balance. This will help us in the long run, IMO.
Oligarchs need the duopoly to win to maintain their 'legitimacy.' If a Green or Socialist starts getting millions of votes, things might start to happen different from the usual.
“Losing them actual money” would be good. It’s what they deserve and it might make a difference? I wish one of the billionaires would take an active position against campaign financing (it’s clearly not Elon or Bill Gates. )
If Jill Stein gets more votes in Michigan than Kamala then everyone can say "the Democrats lost the election because of their support for genocide in Palestine."
Exactly. Makes me sick hearing Americans (and Brits, and lots of others) go on about the *Importance of Democracy* and then chastise anyone who entertains voting for someone other than the uniparty
@5% Jill Stein would get the Green Party on to unchallenged ballots in 50 states and Federal matching funds. For me it's a big F U to the system that even though I voted did NOT earn my vote. So writing in Jill Stein and giving the finger to the system. Free Palestine : )
But Stein termed Presidents Putin and Al-Assad "war criminals." Google "Open Letter" 9-25 from the Syria Support Movement. Stein has not responded to my several reaches out to her for explanation of her treachery. I cannot overlook that.
I just listened to the Duran's interview of Robert Barnes. He had a lot of hopeful things to say about what a Trump administration, with Bobby Kennedy, Tulsi Gabbard and possibly Col. MacGregor would be like. Worth listening to:
"A bigger message than not voting." - sure. A bigger in the sense you're saying "I believe in the system by having registered and casted my ballot". They're thankful for your providing the numbers and recognizing the system.
At least "they" know a voter came to the pills who was opposed to red and blue. And they'll hate Jill Stein for getting any votes especially of it's enough to potentially have swayed the result. You can watch "them" choke on their vitriol. But low turnout could be a stronger statement, if you believe enough others will do likewise. You can always get a bumper article that says, "Don't Blame Me. I Didn't Vote." or "I voted for the other humanoid life form which lost".
While true, they GENUINELY don't care whether you vote or not. If Killary "won" on a turnout of 5%, you think she would say "Gee, that's not a real mandate, I'd better turn down the Presidency and devote the Foundation to building social housing for free!"?
Or would she strut as though it was a 99% margin win in a 90% turnout?
Heads they win, tails you lose.
If there's someone local worth supporting, then go out and vote for them. Otherwise, it's whether you have anything better to do.
"they GENUINELY don't care whether you vote or not" - they do appreciate your chipping in as to the legitimacy of the process.
As more and more people abstained they've been inventing methods to make up the number. Hence mail-in voting in lots of places, some exclusively. With the increased opportunity for fraud as a tasty icing on the cake.
If you vote you legitimize the system. There's no way around it.
Not if you live in the South. Voting is still important when it is taken away from the most oppressed. And why can't a huge number of Black folks vote? Why can't most folks in prison? Look at Reconstruction and the changes Black-majority parties brought and you'll see why they invented and kept funding the KKK.
I don't think the oligarchs care how people vote, as long as the whole exercise continues to function as a distraction. So let's not bother with what they think - let's consider instead what's going on in the head of the voter. We could see a vote for a third party as a step on the path to realising that we don't have a democracy and we never did.
"We could see a vote for a third party as a step on the path to realising that we don't have a democracy and we never did." - sounds weird. How is voting not believing in democracy? And voting for a non-third party - believing in it?
You're missing my point. Your description of my words is a misrepresentation. I'm asking you to consider how a person might transition from believing that democracy exists to realising that their vote has no effect and therefore some other kind of action is needed. I said only that it could be a step on the path. If large numbers of people vote for a third party and then see that it's ineffectual, it will might help them to realise that there is no voting our way out of this mess.
"Your description of my words is a misrepresentation." - my questions were not based on your statement?
If you are so touchy then formulate your thesis more carefully so it cannot be subjected to scrutiny and you won't have to jump to conclusions regarding my intentions.
Your clarification makes it clearer even though to me it suggests the voters are quite slow in their self-education. Maybe that's been the case all along and the time it takes voters to realize it is sufficiently long for any changes to take effect. They simply die while the younger generation repeats the drill.
The only people who "drain off democrats" is the Demonrat Party. Imagine what all those voters COULD achieve if they had the balls to think outside the box, and weren't throwing their money at genocidal Imperialists and warmongers.
Stein doesn't hate Ukrainians like those who "support" the war there, and keep it going. I cannot think of a more hateful thing than to force a defeated people to keep on fighting and dying - currently around 2000 young men, and a growing number of young women, EVERY DAY.
Frankly, a "Cheney-sympathiser", or a "Lindsey Graham-sympathiser", or a "John-Bolton-sympathiser", is magnitudes worse than anything to do with Putin.
By the way, as soon as you wrote "Putin sympathizer", you revealed you're a brainwashed fool. As if anyone in America decides what to think because of Putin.
Lesley, have you ever considered that all those pundits on TV are lying to you every day? That they do this to progress their careers? That said lying is coordinated by those who employ them?
Yes, her purpose is to drain off votes. But many of the younger Maga voters seem more libertarian than Republican - I think they could switch. The Nick Fuentes crew are examples. They think Trump is in Israel’s pocket. They’re not all white, not all male, and not all racist. So, she’s not only up against Dems.
We here in the UK had the opportunity to change the way that our country was governed in 2017.
Jeremy Corbyn was leading the Labour Party and there was genuine excitement about the prospect of meaningful change.
But as I am sure you know the political establishment closed ranks and with the willing assistance of the client media was denied the chance of becoming Prime Minister.
Had we been successful we could possibly have been living in a quiet different world today.
But,successful or not, in the words of the great Chris Hedges “I don’t fight fascists because I expect to win. I fight them because they are fascists.”
Corbyn also had a movement of tens of thousands of people (most young) supporting him so, were there not a neoliberal 5th column in the Labour Party, Corbyn would have won and likely would have made significant change - if he wasn’t assassinated.
Wow, Obummer was and is a Fascist like all the ruling parties. Obummer is 180 degrees from a Communist. Just one thing for working people would have been nice.
But it seems to me that there is one big difference between Corbyn and Obama. Corbyn had a consistent political track record going back to the 1980s. Hardly anyone had heard of Obama five years before he became president. He had, essentially, no track record.
I don't know what Corbyn would have been like as prime minister, but I do know that he would not have been much like Obama.
Which is a good sort of problem for a politician to have!
But I always thought that it was weird that when all the nonsense was being talked about the Labour Party having an anti-semitism problem, Corbyn didn't push back much.
"Had Corbyn been successful we could possibly have been living in a quite different world today".
Nope! the world would be the same,, and human stupidity would have endured. No one person can 'Save the World' only God can, and since I'm not convinced God gives a damn, I think we're on our own.... We were born in a paradise of living creatures, but according to the latest info from the ecologist crowd, perhaps as much as 70% of the Earth's biosphere has been lost in the last 30 years....... Jeremy Corbin probably had as much chance in saving anything that matters as I would have in trying to swim across the Atlantic.
'Only my Sky Pixie can do anything and it won't, so lay down and die...'
Nonsense. Your belief is an opiate, administered generations ago. Get clean and if having a god gives you the feelies, keep it by all means, but stop doing the devil's work with it.
Do you honestly think 70% of the biosphere has been destroyed? In the last 30 years? It's just more bullshit promoted by useful idiots to create apathy. climate change, extinction and massive changes to the biosphere have been ongoing for four billion years. The planet is still here as are the diverse lifeforms on it.
Yes, all this has happened before and people have been murdered before doesn't mean they're not being murdered now.
Climate crisis, species extinction and loss of pollinators due to human activity is accelerating and lots of money is being spent on making people like you think that it's bullshit. Our controllers in Big Oil etc are not amateurs.
Maybe you and Jack are the deluded ones. Check out the oil spill from the Exon Valdez. Sea life is flourishing on top of the pockets of spilled crude. Do you think this could possibly indicate you are being lied to for some ulterior purpose? While i do agree a lot of places are poisoning things but if you think that the powers that be give shit you are sadly deluded. They only want it all for themselves and will use any and all methods to distract from what is really going on. If oil stopped tomorrow you would probably be living in the dark while you freeze or starve to death. Funny thing is people like me would survive.
And the human-caused global warming cult brigade is descending on you without missing a beat.
Funny how the shitlib type seems to have gotten the USA/West/Israel game but keeps missing the same bullshit being fed them by those same people using those same tricks. Not just human-caused global warming tale (quietly changed to "climate change"). BLM, etc. - all the distraction "causes" for the gullible to swallow and keep the division alive.
"Do you honestly think 70% of the biosphere has been destroyed?"
( don't think, I just assume that the sciences are correct. Here's a report from the WWf, and I quote: ... "Wildlife populations - mammals, birds, amphibians, reptiles and fish - have seen a devastating 69% drop on average since 1970, according to WWF’s Living Planet Report (LPR) 2022."...
You can always forward your question (Do you honestly think).... ) to them.........
"Rule of thumb. When you assume you make an ass out of you and me."... Not a "Rule of thumb", but a rule of physics. As far as I know, an ass is part of the human anatomy, so what use is there to make a second ass when we already carry that anatomical burden?
"Yeah. Trust the science. Enjoy your Kool Aid. "... MMmmmmmm???? Aren't you trusting computer SCIENCE to send along your love songs? i.e., how does your electronic "Kool Aid" taste?
Mr Farage is exactly what he has always been. A shameless,self publicist and con merchant. He has a single cause that he is utterly devoted to and that is the accumulation of as much cash and attention as he can get.
It is undeniable that he has the gift of the gab which was extremely effective in scaring David Cameron’s Tory Party into holding the disastrous European Union membership referendum but like a lot of loud noise makers he is essentially an empty vessel.
I think that many many people DO understand that we are being lied to by politicians, by the media, by anyone with any power. I don't think people are as dim as some in these comments think. But people just do not know what to do. They have children who may have problems; they have older relatives who are sick and dying. People are scared and when people are scared they find some way to escape. Netflix, pot, booze. People have not ever been taught how to deal with the kind of adversity that we are presently facing in the world. It is not helping anything at all to blame or ridicule regular people. I keep talking, keep losing friends, keep feeling depressed about all that is happening. I think about the people of Gaza and I feel overwhelmed with sadness and regret. I KNOW that there is not one single person to vote for who will change anything. I have often not bothered to vote, but I am not sure that really does much good either. I don't think it helps any of us to blame each other. We need to find other people who want change and TRY. And we also need to accept that anything we do try may not work because we are against a few people who have stolen all the power for themselves and they keep that power because of the way they have set things up. But we still need to fight that power in any way we can.
Keep fighting, Susan! We hear you. Sometimes voting and joining a group that's working against the corrupt system are ways to make new friends that keep you fighting and keep your spirits up.
That has never worked and it never will. We need another system and it will not be changed from "within". When people decide to join the system in order to change it from within they get twisted up themselves because they are spending a lot of time with people who see wealth and power as success.
Crushing three orphans with the orphan-crushing machine instead of five orphans does not make you a better person and there is nothing to prevent the next person from crushing seven to make up for the losses.
May the chips fall where they will. The fact that the US has the worst Presidential candidates possible (Donald Trump and Kamala Harris) speaks about the deplorable and hopeless state of the US. Maybe it's a sign of the coming demise of the US Empire...and the hope that things will get better after that...
If Jill Stein is not on my ballot I won’t vote at all for president. I can’t bring myself to vote for either of these two politicians or to quote Judge Napolitano’s written piece where he talks about the election, “tweedle de and tweedle dumb”because of their pro-Israel bs. I refuse to vote for ANYONE who endorses the mass murder of civilians, especially women and children and the elderly. I was talking to someone the other day in the urology center while waiting for my Dad and told her about Gaza and that I refuse to watch msm because they won’t tell the truth about what’s happening to the Palestinians. She seemed real nice, but I don’t believe she really knew what I was talking about. This is because the mainstream media refuses to tell the truth about how Israel is committing genocide against the Palestinians and why a lot of Americans really don’t know what is happening over there. It’s disgusting.😢☮️🇵🇸
"No matter how you vote, the ever-expanding abuses of capitalism and plutocracy will continue making life worse for ordinary Americans."
Perhaps, but like you say if voting gives us all a "feeling" then let's make it one that will generate the most emotion and action from the largest portion of the population. Let's make it so damn obvious that we're being screwed that it drives the people out of their homes and into the streets and into the places of power. Let's make it a feeling that brings on the Revolution and takes down the oligarchy once and for all. I think the best way to do so in the US is by voting for alternative candidates, exposing the corrupt electoral system. That will wake up a lot of Americans. Let's do it!
And don't be scared of voting for delayed gratification... vote minor party to encourage others to next time. Vote against the duopoly that US propaganda convinces you all (even Cailin in this article) is unquestionably inevitable.
Sad, but true; I voted for Cornell West for president because his soul is pure and his record solid. So I feel good about supporting him. The alternatives made me sick to my stomach.
Cornel West was my #1 pick too. Unfortunately, he's not politically savvy enough (and that's a good thing) to win in the completely corrupt state of US politics.
West didn’t make it onto the ballot here in NM, and no write in for him is allowed. I am not voting at all. It’s meaningless theater anyway. We need to overthrow the Oligarchs and change our entire system of governance. That’s the only way out of this. It’s going to get a whole lot worse before that happens. I will be dead by then. Good luck to the rest of you.
Saw a recent interview this past week w. Chris Hedges and he sure didn't endorse either of the corporate candidates. He has been outspokenly critical of her, stating he could not vote for her due to her history as a "top cop" prosecutor. Pretty sure he's not changed his mind. Also seems like it would have made national media if he were to switch that position; it's just not like him to sell out. BTW, pretty sure Trump II would be disastrously worse than the one where he had no idea where the levers of power were hidden.
*sigh* For most people most of the time, the fastest and surest way to wind up dead or seriously disadvantaged has been at the hands of our fellow humans. At the same time, "our group", whether by faith, family, tribe, regiment, whatever, are the people we can trust to have our back.
Therefore, whatever else happens, whatever we have to do, believe absurdities, blindly follow barking insane leaders, parrot obvious lies to our detriment, do or suffer terrible things, but please whatever you do, please don't kick us out of the group!
Those who have lived in the Third World and in developed countries should have a light come on about now.
What this also means is that when we are presented with incontrovertible proof that the group narrative is wrong or that the group leaders are mad or charlatans or worse, rather than change leaders or change beliefs or change groups, most people, most of the time will instead double down. Witness the behavior of cultists.
The process is called "cognitive dissonance" and it is abundantly documented. As alluded to earlier, there are entire religions organized around the principle.
Cognitive dissonance is not limited to stupid people. In fact, the intelligent are at least as prone, perhaps because they are better at rationalizing. In fact, much so-called "knowledge work" is basically learning symbol manipulation in order to rationalize something.
The most revealing aspect of the reality of America in the last days of this endlessly absurd election circus is how the Obamas, panderers to Wall St. criminals, murderers of millions, emerge from their elevated mansions to chastise working class, non-college-educated men for not supporting the party that colossally screwed them. Hey jerkoffs, I have two Masters and a Doctorate — but having grown up working/lower-middle class, I’m siding with those deplorables, not with you lying oligarch millionaire scumbags. You two literati illustrate the maxim that education doesn’t mean caca compared with the power of brainwashing and ultimate ethics-purchasing by big money.
The Obama’s are star-fuckers. Traitors of the working class and liars to their very cores.
As are all of the corporate democrats. Republicans are just as bad and worse on many levels. We are so screwed.
I love you, never been said better : )
I wonder how many people will vote for Democrats after Obama let banks steal their homes for pennies on the dollar?
I watched the most amazing transformation during Obama when all the anti Bush, anti war folks suddenly decided that yes indeed the war of terror must be won.
That’s the power of tribalism.
That happened under Bush. 🙄
Exactly. The whole spectacle is just so absolutely disgusting. One of the side effects of AIPAC's capture of our government is that we lost any real political horizon in favor of lesser than evilism. They are literally campaigning on not being as bad as Trump. They have nothing else to offer because they sold out left ideals.
The democRats used to Love Trump, Kennedy and Reagan too
Perhaps something changed? Insanity like Men in Women's Sports? Like a Wide Open Border? Like VaXXXing children for Covid? Like castrating children into Trannies? WTFU !!!
"the Obamas, panderers to Wall St. criminals, murderers of millions, emerge from their elevated mansions to chastise working class, non-college-educated men for not supporting the party that colossally screwed them. "
I saw Barak's ad lecturing the "bros" about how they had to have racial solidarity, all in his phony attempt at bro-speak. It was obvious they weren't buying it at all. Note that the Ds couldn't even find a dozen bro fanboys. It was the most cringeworthy thing I have ever seen. I bet it didn't win a single vote. See for yourself here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVD17hg4O7o
I just donated to Jeremy Loffredo's SpotFund to help him replace his devices, which Israel has of course ruined with bugs, and to help him get out his documentary on ultra-Zionist south Bronx congressman Richie Torres (speaking of scumbags).
Here's a link: http://spot.fund/4gjmhbdc
In reading your comment, I thought will they all explode at some point?
I watched the GrayZone when they announced the fund, I walk with you.
Only the Israeli maniacs know for sure. Thanks for donating. The GrayZone does such essential work revealing the hypocrisy of US foreign policy and its many hypocrites. And with Torres, it's a special breed of hypocrite: the guy represents the poorest congressional district in the country (or one of the poorest), and he sucks up AIPAC $$ like a champ (uh chump).
Tbf, Trump isn’t any different. We saw that from his first term. If you’re not a anting the system to be burnt to the ground, then you’re not really alleviating for any real relief to the workers. People who are willing to be slaves to this system will be slaves. But do t pretend you’re taking some sort of righteous stance by voting. Voting is a sham. There’s no power in it. It’s not revolutionary. You’re not changing any system. You’re placating your own feelings and that is all you’re doing.
So how's that bear on my original comment? I'm not advocating for Trump by shitting on the Obamas. Of course, the entire US political system is as corrupt as hell, and as Margaret Kimberley has pointed out, that fact is especially evident during presidential elections. I agree that voting changes nothing. And I recognize that as you say, my vote for Jill Stein was solely to placate myself (well said!) But if you're going to be completely honest what needs to be torn down is this fucking economic system that encourages -- fuck no, mandates --- nonstop consumption, rendering us feudal serfs to Zionist billionaires. The revolution has to start by denying these fuckers their preferred method of enslaving us. So I start by not participating in this Christmas consumption bullshit -- for example. I buy NOTHING.
That’s fair. And I agree, but we can only opt out for so long. And in any event, our totalitarian overlords have bigger plans for us aside from the old usual. But people are either going to break their chains or submit to them. There is little in between anymore.
Jill Stein deserves to be recognized. She’s on the ballot and last posted pro Palestine… 5 hours ago.
Maybe she’ll only get 1% of popular but will get some interviews. Worth my vote I think? A bigger message than not voting.
Vote for Jill Stein. It sends a message to others that you're serious about wanting "People, Planet and Peace." And it will piss off the oligarchs. Pissing them off should be our main goal at this point. Keeps them off-balance. This will help us in the long run, IMO.
Or do nothing, I will vote Jill Stein with a big F U to the system.
Oligarchs need the duopoly to win to maintain their 'legitimacy.' If a Green or Socialist starts getting millions of votes, things might start to happen different from the usual.
“Losing them actual money” would be good. It’s what they deserve and it might make a difference? I wish one of the billionaires would take an active position against campaign financing (it’s clearly not Elon or Bill Gates. )
If Jill Stein gets more votes in Michigan than Kamala then everyone can say "the Democrats lost the election because of their support for genocide in Palestine."
As you likely know, all Stein has to do for that is get more than the margin of victory of the Rs. This seems very possible.
Thus a vote for Stein is potentially much more effective than lesser evil voting.
Voting for Jill is better than nothing and it's not that hard to do, so why not.
Exactly. Makes me sick hearing Americans (and Brits, and lots of others) go on about the *Importance of Democracy* and then chastise anyone who entertains voting for someone other than the uniparty
@5% Jill Stein would get the Green Party on to unchallenged ballots in 50 states and Federal matching funds. For me it's a big F U to the system that even though I voted did NOT earn my vote. So writing in Jill Stein and giving the finger to the system. Free Palestine : )
But Stein termed Presidents Putin and Al-Assad "war criminals." Google "Open Letter" 9-25 from the Syria Support Movement. Stein has not responded to my several reaches out to her for explanation of her treachery. I cannot overlook that.
Jill Stein is responsible to her party. Party members can be educated. Hearing from Syrian Christians would undoubtedly be a big eye-opener.
Or wait for someone you agree with 100% , good luck with that. I doubt you agree with all your family members. I don't.
Or go "blank POTUS ballot," which I did today, 11-02. A pox on all of 'em.
You're right on, of course, about family members. Such is the breakdown of US society, morals....
I agree. I feel good about this protest vote.
I just listened to the Duran's interview of Robert Barnes. He had a lot of hopeful things to say about what a Trump administration, with Bobby Kennedy, Tulsi Gabbard and possibly Col. MacGregor would be like. Worth listening to:
https://theduran.com/high-stakes-us-elections-2024-w-robert-barnes-live/
That's nice, and it's possible. I'll believe it when I see it.
"A bigger message than not voting." - sure. A bigger in the sense you're saying "I believe in the system by having registered and casted my ballot". They're thankful for your providing the numbers and recognizing the system.
At least "they" know a voter came to the pills who was opposed to red and blue. And they'll hate Jill Stein for getting any votes especially of it's enough to potentially have swayed the result. You can watch "them" choke on their vitriol. But low turnout could be a stronger statement, if you believe enough others will do likewise. You can always get a bumper article that says, "Don't Blame Me. I Didn't Vote." or "I voted for the other humanoid life form which lost".
When I said Pills I meant The Battle Box.
Voting for third parties does make them nervous.
Anything to causes the powers that be to feel any stress is good.
While true, they GENUINELY don't care whether you vote or not. If Killary "won" on a turnout of 5%, you think she would say "Gee, that's not a real mandate, I'd better turn down the Presidency and devote the Foundation to building social housing for free!"?
Or would she strut as though it was a 99% margin win in a 90% turnout?
Heads they win, tails you lose.
If there's someone local worth supporting, then go out and vote for them. Otherwise, it's whether you have anything better to do.
"they GENUINELY don't care whether you vote or not" - they do appreciate your chipping in as to the legitimacy of the process.
As more and more people abstained they've been inventing methods to make up the number. Hence mail-in voting in lots of places, some exclusively. With the increased opportunity for fraud as a tasty icing on the cake.
If you vote you legitimize the system. There's no way around it.
Not if you live in the South. Voting is still important when it is taken away from the most oppressed. And why can't a huge number of Black folks vote? Why can't most folks in prison? Look at Reconstruction and the changes Black-majority parties brought and you'll see why they invented and kept funding the KKK.
You're assuming they care if the political system is legitimate. Critique that thought. ;)
They don’t. But they appreciate voters do.
I was actually for your position. Before I was against it.
Or do nothing. I will vote Jill while giving the system the middle finger and smile.
No, it's the system that will smile with appreciation of your contribution to its legitimacy.
I don't think the oligarchs care how people vote, as long as the whole exercise continues to function as a distraction. So let's not bother with what they think - let's consider instead what's going on in the head of the voter. We could see a vote for a third party as a step on the path to realising that we don't have a democracy and we never did.
"We could see a vote for a third party as a step on the path to realising that we don't have a democracy and we never did." - sounds weird. How is voting not believing in democracy? And voting for a non-third party - believing in it?
You're missing my point. Your description of my words is a misrepresentation. I'm asking you to consider how a person might transition from believing that democracy exists to realising that their vote has no effect and therefore some other kind of action is needed. I said only that it could be a step on the path. If large numbers of people vote for a third party and then see that it's ineffectual, it will might help them to realise that there is no voting our way out of this mess.
"Your description of my words is a misrepresentation." - my questions were not based on your statement?
If you are so touchy then formulate your thesis more carefully so it cannot be subjected to scrutiny and you won't have to jump to conclusions regarding my intentions.
Your clarification makes it clearer even though to me it suggests the voters are quite slow in their self-education. Maybe that's been the case all along and the time it takes voters to realize it is sufficiently long for any changes to take effect. They simply die while the younger generation repeats the drill.
She’s a Putin sympathizer and her point is simply to drain off democrats. She’s never been anything but a fool and a fraud
The only people who "drain off democrats" is the Demonrat Party. Imagine what all those voters COULD achieve if they had the balls to think outside the box, and weren't throwing their money at genocidal Imperialists and warmongers.
Stein doesn't hate Ukrainians like those who "support" the war there, and keep it going. I cannot think of a more hateful thing than to force a defeated people to keep on fighting and dying - currently around 2000 young men, and a growing number of young women, EVERY DAY.
Frankly, a "Cheney-sympathiser", or a "Lindsey Graham-sympathiser", or a "John-Bolton-sympathiser", is magnitudes worse than anything to do with Putin.
You're wrong.
By the way, as soon as you wrote "Putin sympathizer", you revealed you're a brainwashed fool. As if anyone in America decides what to think because of Putin.
Lesley, have you ever considered that all those pundits on TV are lying to you every day? That they do this to progress their careers? That said lying is coordinated by those who employ them?
Lesley, GTFOH.
Like, Genocide Biden, Harris, and Trump. Voting Jill Stein and the big FU to the system.
Yes, her purpose is to drain off votes. But many of the younger Maga voters seem more libertarian than Republican - I think they could switch. The Nick Fuentes crew are examples. They think Trump is in Israel’s pocket. They’re not all white, not all male, and not all racist. So, she’s not only up against Dems.
Jill got my vote. Need to start hugging some trees! 😀 Thanks to those who helped me decide 🙏
We here in the UK had the opportunity to change the way that our country was governed in 2017.
Jeremy Corbyn was leading the Labour Party and there was genuine excitement about the prospect of meaningful change.
But as I am sure you know the political establishment closed ranks and with the willing assistance of the client media was denied the chance of becoming Prime Minister.
Had we been successful we could possibly have been living in a quiet different world today.
But,successful or not, in the words of the great Chris Hedges “I don’t fight fascists because I expect to win. I fight them because they are fascists.”
Keep the faith sister.
Remember how Obama got people's hopes up? Were a Corbyn to get elected, he would quickly be neutered.
The Iron Law Of Oligarchy always wins in the end.
Obomber got people's hopes up by lying, or 'lawyerly semi-truths'.
Corbyn got people's hopes up by being honest, and committing to authentic change to change their lives for the better.
Obomber was never "neutered", he was what he is from Day 1.
Corbyn could never have been neutered, but highly likely to be assassinated.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/british-army-could-stage-mutiny-under-corbyn-says-senior-serving-general-10509742.html
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-48868071
Corbyn also had a movement of tens of thousands of people (most young) supporting him so, were there not a neoliberal 5th column in the Labour Party, Corbyn would have won and likely would have made significant change - if he wasn’t assassinated.
Obama had a huge movement behind him. Didn't matter.
Corbyn didn’t purge Blairites when he had the chance..Corbyn is not nasty enough to get power or keep it for long.
Ever seen "Yes, Minister"?
FWIW, I suspect without any evidence that something similar happened to Ohama.
Obama was a Groomed Commie by his mentor, Frank Marshall Davis, who probably was his real daddy too
Wow, Obummer was and is a Fascist like all the ruling parties. Obummer is 180 degrees from a Communist. Just one thing for working people would have been nice.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gf6lS6OmtNI
we are still in the midst of the 'Hopium Wars'- as well as others...
Obummer, as with the traitor Bernie, my greatest failures of hope. I stand with you my friend : )
I have never been a Corbyn fan.
But it seems to me that there is one big difference between Corbyn and Obama. Corbyn had a consistent political track record going back to the 1980s. Hardly anyone had heard of Obama five years before he became president. He had, essentially, no track record.
I don't know what Corbyn would have been like as prime minister, but I do know that he would not have been much like Obama.
Interesting point. Corbyn's problem wasn't his track record. It was his lack of ruthlessness.
Which is a good sort of problem for a politician to have!
But I always thought that it was weird that when all the nonsense was being talked about the Labour Party having an anti-semitism problem, Corbyn didn't push back much.
The problem is that politicians who lack ruthlessness, who fail to recognize that This Is Hardball, get pushed around.
Which is why it is interesting that Corbyn actually managed to rise to be leader of the Labour Party.
Amen! Fight the fascists. Always!
Name some please, Conrade
Harris, Biden, Graham, Trump, Mush, and many, many more.
Correct
Kevin,
"Had Corbyn been successful we could possibly have been living in a quite different world today".
Nope! the world would be the same,, and human stupidity would have endured. No one person can 'Save the World' only God can, and since I'm not convinced God gives a damn, I think we're on our own.... We were born in a paradise of living creatures, but according to the latest info from the ecologist crowd, perhaps as much as 70% of the Earth's biosphere has been lost in the last 30 years....... Jeremy Corbin probably had as much chance in saving anything that matters as I would have in trying to swim across the Atlantic.
Way to try and disempower people...
'Only my Sky Pixie can do anything and it won't, so lay down and die...'
Nonsense. Your belief is an opiate, administered generations ago. Get clean and if having a god gives you the feelies, keep it by all means, but stop doing the devil's work with it.
Do you honestly think 70% of the biosphere has been destroyed? In the last 30 years? It's just more bullshit promoted by useful idiots to create apathy. climate change, extinction and massive changes to the biosphere have been ongoing for four billion years. The planet is still here as are the diverse lifeforms on it.
Peter, this simply isn't how meaningful thinking works...
Your comments above are not worth the effort of typing them out, they are so thoroughly flawed. Sorry bud.
Yes, all this has happened before and people have been murdered before doesn't mean they're not being murdered now.
Climate crisis, species extinction and loss of pollinators due to human activity is accelerating and lots of money is being spent on making people like you think that it's bullshit. Our controllers in Big Oil etc are not amateurs.
Maybe you and Jack are the deluded ones. Check out the oil spill from the Exon Valdez. Sea life is flourishing on top of the pockets of spilled crude. Do you think this could possibly indicate you are being lied to for some ulterior purpose? While i do agree a lot of places are poisoning things but if you think that the powers that be give shit you are sadly deluded. They only want it all for themselves and will use any and all methods to distract from what is really going on. If oil stopped tomorrow you would probably be living in the dark while you freeze or starve to death. Funny thing is people like me would survive.
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There! Outclowned you both.
And the human-caused global warming cult brigade is descending on you without missing a beat.
Funny how the shitlib type seems to have gotten the USA/West/Israel game but keeps missing the same bullshit being fed them by those same people using those same tricks. Not just human-caused global warming tale (quietly changed to "climate change"). BLM, etc. - all the distraction "causes" for the gullible to swallow and keep the division alive.
Peter,
"Do you honestly think 70% of the biosphere has been destroyed?"
( don't think, I just assume that the sciences are correct. Here's a report from the WWf, and I quote: ... "Wildlife populations - mammals, birds, amphibians, reptiles and fish - have seen a devastating 69% drop on average since 1970, according to WWF’s Living Planet Report (LPR) 2022."...
You can always forward your question (Do you honestly think).... ) to them.........
Rule of thumb. When you assume you make an ass out of you and me.
Peter,
"Rule of thumb. When you assume you make an ass out of you and me."... Not a "Rule of thumb", but a rule of physics. As far as I know, an ass is part of the human anatomy, so what use is there to make a second ass when we already carry that anatomical burden?
Yeah. Trust the science. Enjoy your Kool Aid.
Peter,
"Yeah. Trust the science. Enjoy your Kool Aid. "... MMmmmmmm???? Aren't you trusting computer SCIENCE to send along your love songs? i.e., how does your electronic "Kool Aid" taste?
Farage ???
Mr Farage is exactly what he has always been. A shameless,self publicist and con merchant. He has a single cause that he is utterly devoted to and that is the accumulation of as much cash and attention as he can get.
It is undeniable that he has the gift of the gab which was extremely effective in scaring David Cameron’s Tory Party into holding the disastrous European Union membership referendum but like a lot of loud noise makers he is essentially an empty vessel.
Well said Kevin Pettitt
I think that many many people DO understand that we are being lied to by politicians, by the media, by anyone with any power. I don't think people are as dim as some in these comments think. But people just do not know what to do. They have children who may have problems; they have older relatives who are sick and dying. People are scared and when people are scared they find some way to escape. Netflix, pot, booze. People have not ever been taught how to deal with the kind of adversity that we are presently facing in the world. It is not helping anything at all to blame or ridicule regular people. I keep talking, keep losing friends, keep feeling depressed about all that is happening. I think about the people of Gaza and I feel overwhelmed with sadness and regret. I KNOW that there is not one single person to vote for who will change anything. I have often not bothered to vote, but I am not sure that really does much good either. I don't think it helps any of us to blame each other. We need to find other people who want change and TRY. And we also need to accept that anything we do try may not work because we are against a few people who have stolen all the power for themselves and they keep that power because of the way they have set things up. But we still need to fight that power in any way we can.
Keep fighting, Susan! We hear you. Sometimes voting and joining a group that's working against the corrupt system are ways to make new friends that keep you fighting and keep your spirits up.
Never give up Susan !
The only way might be to play their game. Infiltrate and change it from within
That has never worked and it never will. We need another system and it will not be changed from "within". When people decide to join the system in order to change it from within they get twisted up themselves because they are spending a lot of time with people who see wealth and power as success.
Crushing three orphans with the orphan-crushing machine instead of five orphans does not make you a better person and there is nothing to prevent the next person from crushing seven to make up for the losses.
Thank you Caitlin for your honesty and clear-sightedness.
Here is another perspective on the 2024 election (which meshes with yours nicely) ->
Critical Election Theory (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7M9vvZq2DHs)
May the chips fall where they will. The fact that the US has the worst Presidential candidates possible (Donald Trump and Kamala Harris) speaks about the deplorable and hopeless state of the US. Maybe it's a sign of the coming demise of the US Empire...and the hope that things will get better after that...
If Jill Stein is not on my ballot I won’t vote at all for president. I can’t bring myself to vote for either of these two politicians or to quote Judge Napolitano’s written piece where he talks about the election, “tweedle de and tweedle dumb”because of their pro-Israel bs. I refuse to vote for ANYONE who endorses the mass murder of civilians, especially women and children and the elderly. I was talking to someone the other day in the urology center while waiting for my Dad and told her about Gaza and that I refuse to watch msm because they won’t tell the truth about what’s happening to the Palestinians. She seemed real nice, but I don’t believe she really knew what I was talking about. This is because the mainstream media refuses to tell the truth about how Israel is committing genocide against the Palestinians and why a lot of Americans really don’t know what is happening over there. It’s disgusting.😢☮️🇵🇸
"No matter how you vote, the ever-expanding abuses of capitalism and plutocracy will continue making life worse for ordinary Americans."
Perhaps, but like you say if voting gives us all a "feeling" then let's make it one that will generate the most emotion and action from the largest portion of the population. Let's make it so damn obvious that we're being screwed that it drives the people out of their homes and into the streets and into the places of power. Let's make it a feeling that brings on the Revolution and takes down the oligarchy once and for all. I think the best way to do so in the US is by voting for alternative candidates, exposing the corrupt electoral system. That will wake up a lot of Americans. Let's do it!
And don't be scared of voting for delayed gratification... vote minor party to encourage others to next time. Vote against the duopoly that US propaganda convinces you all (even Cailin in this article) is unquestionably inevitable.
HI TRC this .ay seem gloomy, but it's real nonetheless.
I have found that winning requires many things, including creativity.
Please let me know what you think of this.
https://youtu.be/pHe7mDRURfA?si=Ls9ni1S1mvzLZlbK
Sad, but true; I voted for Cornell West for president because his soul is pure and his record solid. So I feel good about supporting him. The alternatives made me sick to my stomach.
Cornel West was my #1 pick too. Unfortunately, he's not politically savvy enough (and that's a good thing) to win in the completely corrupt state of US politics.
West didn’t make it onto the ballot here in NM, and no write in for him is allowed. I am not voting at all. It’s meaningless theater anyway. We need to overthrow the Oligarchs and change our entire system of governance. That’s the only way out of this. It’s going to get a whole lot worse before that happens. I will be dead by then. Good luck to the rest of you.
Didn’t he just come out and endorse Kamala? Pretty sure I read that recently.
He couldn’t endorse Stein because he’s afraid of another Trump term. I wish people would realize that they lived through his first term.
Saw a recent interview this past week w. Chris Hedges and he sure didn't endorse either of the corporate candidates. He has been outspokenly critical of her, stating he could not vote for her due to her history as a "top cop" prosecutor. Pretty sure he's not changed his mind. Also seems like it would have made national media if he were to switch that position; it's just not like him to sell out. BTW, pretty sure Trump II would be disastrously worse than the one where he had no idea where the levers of power were hidden.
but will trump2 be worse enough to get people out in the streets?
It's a humiliation ritual for slaves.
Why Don't I Vote? I'll Let George Carlin Explain It To You
https://youtu.be/9X4Z1lLUMfw?si=a4JVAtPHl8GABdzq
Humans want to be abused and lied to.
*sigh* For most people most of the time, the fastest and surest way to wind up dead or seriously disadvantaged has been at the hands of our fellow humans. At the same time, "our group", whether by faith, family, tribe, regiment, whatever, are the people we can trust to have our back.
Therefore, whatever else happens, whatever we have to do, believe absurdities, blindly follow barking insane leaders, parrot obvious lies to our detriment, do or suffer terrible things, but please whatever you do, please don't kick us out of the group!
Those who have lived in the Third World and in developed countries should have a light come on about now.
What this also means is that when we are presented with incontrovertible proof that the group narrative is wrong or that the group leaders are mad or charlatans or worse, rather than change leaders or change beliefs or change groups, most people, most of the time will instead double down. Witness the behavior of cultists.
The process is called "cognitive dissonance" and it is abundantly documented. As alluded to earlier, there are entire religions organized around the principle.
Cognitive dissonance is not limited to stupid people. In fact, the intelligent are at least as prone, perhaps because they are better at rationalizing. In fact, much so-called "knowledge work" is basically learning symbol manipulation in order to rationalize something.