In a former incarnation of myself, I accepted that Israel had a right to exist, always hoping that there was somehow a two -state, one-state, whatever-number-worked state solution to the apartheid, I was far too optimistic, just as I was coming away from the Vietnam era and hoping my country would somehow learn to curb its rabid imperialist urges.
No more, no more. Say what you will to me, Israel appears to be a mass cultural psychosis of a war state, and I no longer believe in its right to exist.
I am guilty of the same. I used to think Israel did have the right to exist. Yes, despite knowing what they were doing to the Palestinians now for decades.
But this genocide ... is not acceptable by any moral standard. Israel has forfeited its moral right to exist as a state. If anyone needs to leave the Middle East - it should be the Israelis.
The land was not given to them - they killed quite a few Palestinians that got in their way - and have been unjustly "taking" more land there ever since - much like the Americans did to the Indians. Most of the Israelis who live there now are descendents from other lands - and are not even native to the Middle East.
But even if it really was their land - which it isn't, this act of genocide backed by the majority of it's warrior citizen state - makes the nation a criminal rogue state - much like Germany was a criminal rogue state in the 1940s. The act of genocide is the greatest human evil that can possibly exist - outside of the destruction of all humanity via a nuclear conflagration. This great evil delegitimizes Israel's right to exist - similar to the evil the Nazis perpetrated. There is no moral standing here - or any reason for value or "rightness" - at all. Israel has forfeited its human rights as a nation.
The land was given to them, a UN decision that came with a lot of arm twisting, and the most fertile part of it. Not all of it, since Palestine got their share of their own land. OH, I know and I have never been a fan or Israel. I agree with everything you said. As I was growing up my mother, who was very political, was an anti-Zionist. I didn't pay close attention and even if I did I wouldn't know the layout of that part of the world, but she predicted what is happening now, which would bring in surrounding Arab states and there would be conflict between them. The US and Russia, both nuclear powers, would come into the fray aligned with different countries. The US with Israel and I don't remember too much because I turned a deaf ear to the world is going to enter WWIII. I hope she was wrong, but it scares me how this is playing out and the attack on the Houthis, and their relationship with Iran, and Iran's close connection to Russia.
Curious: what are your thoughts on mortality, which is something I often wonder about witnessing all this useless death. Are you a nihilist? An Existentialist? A Transcendentalist? Don't have to answer - given it is a bit personal, but it is something I've been thinking about quite a bit as I watch the daily Gaza horror show - mostly on Al Jazeera news. What's it all about?
Well a Unitarian Universalist, so a Transcendentalist, However I go my own way, and don't ask when I payed by congregation a visit. Since I was a child I felt you had a soul and your purpose was to protect it, not to let anyone destroy it, or take if away piece by piece. So when it comes to Israel for example and the horror it's creating in Gaza I denounce it, because to embrace it or accept it is to destroy your own soul. Hope that makes sense.
The corrupt Zionist entity took over as the dominant governing (???) body at the creation of Israel , and led the nation into the ideological terror it had become.
The land of Palestine belonged to the Ottoman Empire, who lost WWI. The French and English swooped in and established the mandate system. The English "gave" the Palestinian Mandate to the Jews, who subsequently proved unable/unwilling to share the land with its native residents. Voila - war on the Palestinians! Bad on the British and bad on the Jews. But here we are, now the international community is trying to preserve the native Palestininians while controlling the Jews. As long as the USA is funding Israel, the "war" will continue.
So, let's see if I've got this straight. If I steal a car and give it to a friend and then the actual owner of that car turns up on his doorstep demanding it back, he can resort to violence to retain possession of it. Because it was given to him.
Purely rhetorical of course, I haven't stolen any cars.
The land of Israel was given to them in the Balfour accords in the early 1920's once the Ottoman empire fell and Palestine was a part of that empire. In 1948 the UN divided up the land between the Jews and Palestinians and my point is get along which Israel didn't do, The Nakba, soon followed and it's been more or less down hill ever since and now Israel wants it all. You don't address me with a question and take on a demeaning tone.
I was not being 'demeaning' in any way. My comment was fully and entirely serious.
Lord Balfour did not own Palestine, it was not his to give away. Regardless of which megalomaniac Emperor or King claimed to rule Palestine, it always was Palestinian land. The Nakba was the Repo Man knocking on the door after the bank said they own your house.
Plus, before the Nakba, zionist guerillas attack the King David Hotel killing British military and civilian personnel. They hadn't been 'given' anything at that time.
P.S. what I don't do is take orders from complete strangers. That is demeaning!
Fine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It wasn't an order, it wasn't a request. I stated my position on how I want to be addressed. You never have to respond to anything I say, and it will be okay.
The Brits were required by the U.S. to create the Balfour Declaration if they wanted the US to enter WWI. They were between a rock and a hard place. So they did. The US demanded the Brits support a "Jewish Homeland" but it was supposed to be ONLY on uninhabited land, which of course there was none in the M.E. Unless you pretend Palestinians don't exist, which is why the Zionists did just that. And still do.
I know that the first Jewish supreme court justice, Brandeis pressured Balfour, but I have always read that the Zionist movement put a lot of pressure on him too. I'll look it up. In that time frame Arabs were, well, nobodies. A very prejudicial position in which many groups were included. I do ancestry and a relative fought in WWI and of course within months died, and I read when we entered that war immigrants and blacks are the one's that fought it. I wish people would look at our long history of prejudice that includes a whole lot of ethnic groups, as well as blacks. You were definitely white if you came from northern or western Europe, anyplace else, not really, and when they came here they were not treated well at all. Poles were even considered animals.
Yes , it would be like giving your home to someone else by your neighbor. If you tried to take my home, you would have an enemy for life. Sorry, that situation was pure racism. Ask yourself why would a group of nations steal land and then move hundreds of thousands of people force them to murder hundreds of thousands of people for land? When simply saying to them here is land in germany for you with the right of returning to property you owned prior to the Nazi. Free Free Palestine is the only answer.
I don't think they would want to live in Germany after the holocaust, but they got the land of Palestine due to a colonial and prejudicial mindset which is still prevalent in the world. Germany of course is supporting their genocide. They learned so much from their history, right, no more killing Jews, but Palestinians, right on man.
Jenny I'm not sure what it is you are trying to say to me. It's one thing to speak about what is going on in the US which I have no control over, and another to make it sound so personal, as if I am in agreement with the polices the US implements here and abroad, and if that is the case nothing could be further from the truth.
I have never said that I agreed with what Balfour did that is giving the Zioinist the land of Palestine where they had lived for many hundreds of years and were the dominant population. No more then I agree with America's decision to enter WWI and choose blacks and recent immigrants to fight it, which meant Italians, and Poles mostly. However it was legal. the Ottoman empire fell and they gave the land to the Zionists. However it was the UN in 1948 who made it official and they divided the land into Palestine and Israel, and Israel got the most fertile part of it, but then came the Nakba and many Palestinians were displaced. There is a difference between what is right and what they determine is legal or within their rights to implement. During that time frame there continued to be a very colonial mindset, which even continues to this day. It's only been within the last 60 years or so, the prejudicial attitudes toward Arabs has abated, well, mostly.
The Balfour Declaration, which resulted in a significant upheaval in the lives of Palestinians, was issued on November 2, 1917.
From Ajazeera,
The declaration turned the Zionist aim of establishing a Jewish state in Palestine into a reality when Britain publicly pledged to establish “a national home for the Jewish people” there.
The pledge is generally viewed as one of the main catalysts of the Nakba – the ethnic cleansing of Palestine in 1948 – and the conflict that ensued with the Zionist state of Israel.
May 1948 The vote in the U.N. that declared Israel was recognised as a country. The State of Israel is established for the first time.
We did not fight a war against Germany for the Holocaust. We fought it to prevent Germany taking over all of Europe. This is what our schools are teaching kids. And it's simply not true.
Nobody's fighting a war against Israel. Israel is "fighting a war" against Hamas. The giant is very weak. And is an incredible bully with tremendous amounts of hatred--including self-hatred--to use as weapons. You have to have an enemy to create a national identity. That is what Catherine the Great did. Only at that time it was the Ashkenazi who were used as "the enemy" to create a "Russian" identity. Now as Israeli society is splintering, Netanyahu NEEDS Hamas as an enemy. Without Hamas he is nothing. Removal of Palestinians from the land of Palestine will be the end of Israel's existence. Who are they without the Palestinians?
All wars are economic. Including the second war. The nazis and their viciousness gave the US a more acceptable reason to join in the war. The munitions manufacturers in the US got rich. They will make a lot of money off the munitions that are being sent to Israel now.
The Ottoman Empire lost the land of Palestine under their control after WWI, so the Brits did own it, but it doesn't justify giving the land of Palestine to someone else.
In 1948 the UN divided the land between the Jewish people and the Palestinains and Israel was born. The ethnic cleansing I thing you are referring to is the nakba
I have never thought highly of Israel knowing it's history, and it's multiple attacks on the Palestinians and perception of them as inferior, now their is only loathing for not only what the government of Israel is implementing but the silence of it's people when their country is implementing a genocide.
To be fair there are voices within Israel speaking out, B'Tselem comes to mind but there are others. From all accounts the population of Israel have been indoctrinated since birth, many have seen the video of school kids singing their version of Tomorrow Belongs To Me. The Israeli Govt. has turned Orwells' two minute hate into a lifetime hate.
Haven't we all been pummelled with that propaganda? WMDs, Evil Russia, Gadaffi in Libya whatever? What we need is a battalion of De-progammers and not just in Israel.
I know there are, but really too few. I'm not blaming the people of Israel but it's government. I always hated Netanyahu, nothing but a corrupt narcissistic bastard. This is what he always wanted, cultivated, and he fed Hamas, and empowered them since neither wanted a two state solution and he also sounds like a religious zealot. I think most people will put the blame where it belongs, and that is on his shoulders, and his extreme right wing party.
No nation has a right to exist. Where does this right come from? A group of people maybe move into some place first and no one else wants it -- Scotland or Iceland -- or they take over by force of arms and defend it the same way, like USA, Israel, Australia, Japan, China, and most of Europe. No rights in sight.
Peaceful intermingling is also possible, as in Malaysia.
Everyone has a ‘right to exist’. It would be best to stop this confusing terminology. This is a land dispute. It’s a simple problem but not a simple solution. I believe humans capable enough to resolve it but it will take people of moral character to lead efforts. Unfortunately, immoral people continue to sabotage a solution.
To demand that Palestinians recognize “Israel’s right to exist” is to demand that a people who have for almost 80 years been treated, and continue to be treated, as subhumans unworthy of basic human rights publicly proclaim that they are subhumans — and, at least implicitly, that they deserve what has been done, and continues to be done, to them. Here is an historically informative article: https://www.globalresearch.ca/on-israel-s-right-to-exist/7680
What will become of the surviving Palestinians both in Gaza and the West Bank ? How can this ever improve without them being forever protected by forces on the ground in the country ? I can’t imagine this ever being possible . Imagine living with and next to an abhorrent regime like Israel ? So what will become if the surviving Palestinians ? 😞
A rare deep understanding of Israeli society. See Hedges excellent interview. "Chris Hedges Report with Miko Peled, the son of an Israeli general who served in the Special Forces in the Israeli army, on the racist indoctrination and militarization of Israeli society." Peled woke up. Transformed himself. (chrishedges.substack.com) Activist and author.
Thank you for this, there are times I’ve felt like I’m going insane due to the lack of media coverage or the bias and distortion. How can it be controversial to ask for the killing of babies to stop?
"How can it be controversial to ask for the killing of babies to stop?"
It's not controversial to ask. The controversy arises when the answer is "no, we will do this again and again until the very rocks and trees expose the last surviving member of the enemy race to our sword."
I'm desperately trying not to conflate Zionist Israeli murderers with ordinary Jews in Australia. But I'll never forgive those who do not disavow this Genocide...
Genocide, no matter who commits it, should Never Be Forgotten and Never Allowed. If there is any human act that is an absolute moral red line - it's the unforgivable evil of genocide.
If you look at the real history of the U.S. (not what you are taught in school) you will realize that we have never had democracy. The mostly British dissolute second sons were given huge tracts of land in order to send resources back to the motherland where they added value and sold products elsewhere to increase their wealth (where "King" Charles' wealth comes from, BTW). The people who actually own and rule this country haven't changed all that much. Our elections are rigged long before the primaries.
If you want things to change, change the way you live. Don't support these psychopathic people. Boycott their ventures and corporations and non-profits. The works. And for humanity's sake stop waiting for some savior to come give you something for nothing. If the people will lead, the leaders will follow. LEAD. If you buy into "the American Dream" you're just giving away your power. You were born with all the power you need. Use it wisely. Stop funding the industrial-military complex.
FYI, military recruiters are in overdrive. If you have kids who are teens or 20-somethings, guard them with your life. Uncle Sam is coming for them. They are gearing up for yet another war. IT'S SO BORING.
Lead yourself. BLM wasn't what it appeared to be and resulted in the destruction of minority neighborhoods and the acquisition by the already-wealthy of yet more property. Although I supported the intentions, I have to say it looked pretty hysterical and meaningless. Mostly middle class White people around here with placards. No real substance.
Editing posts is always a good idea.
The U.S. offered green cards (or was it citizenship) to immigrants who signed up for Iraq wars. I don't think most of them got whatever it was they were promised.
Sinking of an aircraft carrier? Just blame the Arabs. What the fuck do those American aircraft carriers think they're going to do? This is not the 1950's.
Occupy Wall Street was greenwashed by the very corporations they were objecting to. Do you have a retirement fund? Investments? IRA account? Stocks? Bonds? A new car? Where do you live? Do you own your own essential stuff like housing, food, water, energy? It's not a matter of getting out in the streets with placards. It's a matter of making little choices in your life that are aligned with your political beliefs. Stop using Amazon, Microsoft, social media, driving all over tarnation, cell phones (GOD! that is a no-brainer), get off the grid, grow your own food, help your friggin' neighbor, educate your own, create your own employment, control your own water supply. Stop buying, buying, buying. Stop using the healthcare system--treat yourself. Educate yourself. Run for your local school board. Talk to everyone you meet about real subjects, not the weather.
I think a digital-free day every week does wonders to clean out the crap in your brain.
People don't have access to the facts. So if you are in possession of facts, share them. What intelligent person reads legacy media anymore? Who watches TV? I sure as hell don't.
How do you think the Iranian Revolution happened? Waiting for a leader? NO. People gathered, peacefully, at specific locations which were communicated by a system of whistles and other human-powered audio message at night on the rooftops. The army did not want to kill their own extended family members. They were shamed out of participating in the Shah's regime and eventually joined the demos. The Shah had to run. The CIA had to run. The wealthy ruling class had to run. The Ayatollah filled the vacuum because the mosque was the only place groups of people could legally gather. Yes. They had a law pre-Revolution that a gathering of three or more could be put into jail for political conspiracy. Three people. And if you don't think the CIA was calling the shots, you are seriously ill-informed.
January 6 were following the Orange Pumpkin. They were not thinking for themselves. They were USED by Trump and apparently they have learned NOTHING from recent history. Here we go again. And, for the record, I'm not voting for ANY candidate who is pro-Israeli. Forget Republicans. They're not in touch with reality.
FYI, part of my childhood I grew up in Iran. So, yes, I do know more than you do about how the Revolution happened. I knew within five days of getting there that there was going to be one (1967) and actually told the number 3 CIA guy in Tehran in 1971 that there would be one (he jeered at me and said "organizing Iranians is like herding cats"--verbatim quote). Sometimes racism (or sexism, for that matter) is the most powerful tool the disempowered have because the dominating powers participate in their own overthrow. American activists have often told me that the Iranian Revolution took 30 years of steering committee meetings and organized demos, etc. I just have to laugh. (For one thing, the Shah hadn't been in power for 30 years when he was overthrown). Maybe in the West. Secret meetings held by university students and professors is NOT the way revolutions happen. That sort of thing could (and did) get you thrown into Evin, the prison they put political prisoners in. If you think the Iranian Revolution of 1979 was a CIA operation, you know nothing about it. And you assume the CIA are a lot brighter than they actually are. Khomeini's coming to power WAS as a result of CIA activity destroying reasonable alternatives. And Bush Sr. made a deal with Khomeini during the Hostage Crisis not to release them until after Reagan's inauguration. Do I need to add that that was treason? There is only one US President at a time.
Ayatollah Khomeini did not run the Iranian Revolution. What a bunch of pap. You have NO idea how oppressive living in a police state actually is. People just couldn't take anymore. I saw that this was going to happen in fucking 1967 as a kid after I'd been there for only five days and knew only a smattering of Farsi. It was fucking obvious. Khomeini came to power because of the tension between the "bazaari" (business class) and the mosque that went back at least to Reza Shah's time and probably longer--I'm not an expert on Iranian history. The Shah turned him into a folk hero when he expelled him from the country into exile in the 60's, no doubt at the behest of the idiot CIA.
The CIA didn't bother to learn Farsi or the culture or the history, for that matter, and PAID for their information, just like the US military PAID for info on people they stuck in Guantánamo. They didn't have a clue. And I know this because I played dumb and watched them like a hawk. And taught myself to remember. You know, like Woody Allen, I developed a habit by the age of 3 of saying, "Note to self: ..." This really helps lay down memories permanently. Making connections is not that hard to do once you make a habit of thinking about what you have witnessed deeply.
I am not an organization person. And I wouldn't presume to have answers for anyone else. I am saying you need to be the most important leader in your own life. And, as you should have learned from the Women's Movement, the personal is political and the political is personal. Live by that dictum and you will be all right. Does your personal life reflect your political beliefs? If not, change it until it does.
If you don't get off the grid, you are going to be powerless, quite literally, soon enough. The people in power have been warning us about what's coming--THIS YEAR--for months and months and months. They're trying to prepare the population to blame a cyber attack of esssential services on Iran. They've put a former MOSSAD agent's company in charge of the security of all vital services, including your health information, utilities, security at nuclear bomb storage sites, the works.
Wake up, John. At least create an alternative power source for electric power you cannot live without. Check out Bluetti solar generator systems. You can get enough off the grid to survive a nation-wide power outage with around $500 bucks--and a little more for a small string of (foldable!) solar panel. It'll cost you around $50 to set up a rain barrel water catchment system, no matter where you live. And you really should have three months' dry goods and canned veggies in your kitchen. In South India they make kitchen stoves with three bricks and a coconut frond. You can make do with a handful of sticks from a branch fallen from a tree in your yard, or someone else's yard.
Gaza's mistake is that it was on the grid when the Israelis attacked. They shouldn't have relied solely on electric to pump water and sewage. I have multiple systems. None cost more than $50. This is not rocket science and it doesn't require an organize with bi-laws, committees, minutes, a power structure, yada yada yada. Sorry to say this, but that is SO White male. Channel your grandparents and think about what they knew, how they lived. Or your great-grandparents, if you are young enough.
Resilience. That's what you need. In real, practical terms.
'I'm not about to go "off-grid". Nor am I going to stop playing the "money game". Calls for following this "plan" are naive.
IMHO you're not thinking clearly about how a revolt might be organized. And you throw out a bunch of stuff, that doesn't prove anything to support your claim that "the people can just 'do it'".'
If you are not only unable but also unwilling to do those things, you are in no way a supporter of revolt, because you are opposed to the most pure and effective form of revolt against the system.
What is being said there *is* revolutionary. What you are saying is a naïve fantasy of violent revolt against the system, not one that can be put into effective practice by an individual.
People really can "just do it", if they are daring, but as Schiller put it in his lied Sehnsucht: "You must believe, you must dare it, for the Gods make no pledges; only a miracle can carry you into that fair land of wonder."
The only class that has ever really succeeded in organising violent revolutions in history is the ruling one. Violent revolt generally as a rule can be expected to strengthen the system by giving the power elite casus belli against the public.
Chris Hedges explains that practical revolt better than I could in his book "Death of the Liberal Class", so I will quote a couple paragraphs from the last chapter of the book, rather than repeat it myself in a lesser way. It is not the naïve kind, but rather the only practical kind that you could either work toward or start doing right now. Your understanding is the wrong way around.
"As communities fragment under the weight of internal chaos and the increasingly dramatic changes caused by global warming and economic despair, they will face a difficult choice. They can retreat into a pure survivalist mode, a form of primitive tribalism, without linking themselves to the concentric circles of the wider community and the planet. This retreat will leave participants as morally and spiritually bankrupt as the corporate forces arrayed against us. It is imperative that, like the monasteries in the Middle Ages, communities nurture the intellectual and artistic traditions that make possible a civil society, humanism, and the common good. Access to parcels of agricultural land will be paramount. We will have to grasp, as the medieval monks did, that we cannot alter the larger culture around us, at least in the short term, but we may be able to retain the moral codes and culture for generations beyond ours. As those who retained their identity during slavery or the long night of twentieth-century fascism and communism discovered, resistance will be reduced to small, often imperceptible acts of defiance. Music, theatre, art, poetry, journalism, literature, dance, and the humanities, including the study of philosophy and history, will be the bulwarks that separate those who remain human from those who become savages.
We stand on the verge of one of the bleakest periods in human history, when the bright lights of civilizations will blink out and we will descend for decades, if not centuries, into barbarity. The elites, who successfully convinced us that we no longer possessed the capacity to understand the revealed truths presented before us or to fight back against the chaos caused by economic and environmental catastrophe, will use their resources to create privileged little islands where they will have access to security and goods denied to the rest of us. As long as the mass of bewildered and frightened people, fed images by the organs of mass propaganda that permit them to perpetually hallucinate, exist in this state of barbarism, they may periodically strike out with a blind fury against increased state repression, widespread poverty, and food shortages. But they will lack the ability and self-confidence to challenge in big and small ways the structures of control. The fantasy of widespread popular revolts and mass movements breaking the hegemony of the corporate state is just that—a fantasy."
John, the answer is armed Revolution, and all of us coming together regardless of political leanings to foment this, because every single one of us knows that the regime works for everyone EXCEPT the American people.
And we can’t be afraid to die to take back this country from Zio control.
It does appear that unions are making a comeback here. My husband is retired UAW, still pays union dues which is voluntary. I’m so proud of new UAW president Shawn Fain, who has real GUTS.
The most important part of what I replied is that it will go on and on because at this point, we would not win an armed revolution. There has to be another way to turn things around. It is commendable that you are not afraid to die, but we can't bring about much change when we are dead.
Question: Is it antisemitic to find the Jewish faith obnoxious? In fairness, I consider all religions obnoxious...they tend to worsen conflict. The Bible is the literal word of god?! I don't care what people believe as long as they do no harm to others. And that includes not getting people fired for supporting Palestinians. How putridly ARROGANT.
"Israel demanding that everyone condemn the Hamas attack is like a bunch of thugs punching a man in the face over and over and then demanding that everyone condemn him for hurting their hands."
Too true that the MSM only says "Iranian-backed Houthis" but never, ever, "US-supported Israel." Little tricks of language turn the trick. Propaganda's all in the framing...
Huh, today being anti-Semitic also include being anti-genocide. Having read up on Israel's modern history, that zionist state has for 75 years abuse the guilt of the world for the Jewish Holocaust, and made a nation which took no part in that Holocaust victims of the Israeli evangelical revenge. No Israel would be a good solution. And Netanyahu seems like a reincarnation of Heinrich Himmler!
We should not allow ourselves to assume guilt or blame as the perpetrators are psychopathic control freaks and the following link provides key points in how to deal with them, usually in the work place but also applicable in this situation--https://proschoolonline.com/blog/signs-you-are-dealing-with-a-control-freak
We should hope and pray the International Court of Justice comes down hard on Netanyahu as this would destroy him totally with huge consequences for Israel.
It was reported soon after Oct.7th the Attack by Hamas was intended to seize hostages to trade for Palestinians held prisoner in Israeli jails. Does this hold true?
These are black days for Biden and Blinken as they are the two people in the world that could have stopped the genocide in its tracks. Biden met with Netanyahu in Tel Aviv on October 10th and did nothing!!!!
Yes. Al-Qassem Brigades attack on Israel on October 7th was a military action with a specific military objective: to capture Israeli hostages, alive and unharmed, in order to exchange them for Palestinian prisoners. There was a precedent for this, when the return of a soldier taken prisoner by Hamas resulted in the release of 1000 Palestinian political prisoners. That was the objective of October 7th.
What happened on October 7th is very murky. The most plausible is that Hamas wanted hostages to bargain with Israel for the release of Palestinian political prisoners held in Israeli jails. It is coming out that most of the dead in the kibbutz area were the casualties of friendly fire. Of course Israel says otherwise - can we believe the Israeli authorities at all, or the western media, for the matter?
Of course like everything else progressive or just it vetoes , but let's make it a very expensive veto. Let's take the measure of how much disgrace it is willing to endure and how much lose of face in the world community. Let's plumb the depths of it shameless behaviors .
It is a tough call and a test for the integrity of the court . They are under tremendous pressure to let Netanyahu off. Their decision is a very hot political potato!!
The more general question of whether or not Israel was a huge tragic mistake needs be considered now. I completely agree with the capacity for Biden to end this atrocity immediately. Just stop all aid of any kind to Israel, immediately
Why they get aid is puzzling. Israelis live 17 years longer than Americans Natives and 5 years longer than Americans in general, with their free health care. Americans get sick and are frequently bankrupted by their illness, in contrast.
The Israel Lobby in the US is why Biden is compelled to participate in the atrocity. If the Lobby members admitted they were foreign agents, things might change. Until then their wealth controls American behavior towards Israel. And, ultimately, our tax laws are being used against us.
I agree with you Susan. I have struggled with this question since this terrible tragedy started to reveal so much about the West. It is the same in the UK . I stopped reading right wing newspapers and watching government friendly newspapers when the penny dropped. I feel ashamed that I believed everything I read and heard . The question is.... how many of these pro Israel politicians and television presenters actually believe what they’re saying and how many are being bribed ? I watch the likes of Piers Morgan and Julia Hartley -Brewer and the majority of our politicians with disgust and dismay . Israel is a deeply unwell country .
Also...We should never forget that the IDF killed as many or more Israelis on Oct.7 as Hamas, and has admitted it..And they have admitted having orders to kill Israelis rather than take the chance they would be taken as hostages...
Since I was in my early teens, my growing realization of the true state of affairs has caused me to slide into periods of mild despair, which have developed now into full blown depression. I haven't lost the will to live, but I have lost the will to live in support of war, authoritarianism and the relentless pursuit of profit.
It is my firm belief that the only way to stop this madness is if enough of us can find the courage to turn our backs on modern 'civilization' in its current form and plot a new course. I also believe that pursuing this goal relentlessly is the only hope I have of ever curing my depression, unless I wanna just do like the majority and numb myself to the pain with insane amounts of drugs.
The trouble with drugs is that they tend to distort reality a bit. Make you complacent and just go along with the prevailing narrative. I don’t think we’re the problem, I think the narrative is. And no amount of drugs is gonna change that.
Have you read about Bill Gates' new venture? Cutting and burying the forests of the West in order to prevent them dying and expiring methane. After 175 years buried, the wood will become "harder" and be wonderful for building even more energy-inefficient homes with which to rip off the public. You'd best spend as much time in your RV as you can, Bill. The National Forests are the next resource in Billy Boy's sights. I suppose Bill plants on a cryogenic afterlife.
That's totally the right spirit. No question about that. But I think it's equally important to come together and create new and powerful narratives that can take the place of the bullshit we are being fed, and to realize the true nature of what we're up against. In fact, I just finished writing a little piece about that. Might be of interest:
He sure does! I'm very inspired by his work. But I think you will find that I put a slightly different spin on things, and the piece is not about addiction in the way I think most people define it.
Yeah, some of the most amazing people I've come across lived far from boardrooms, fancy gyms and supermarkets. As soon as I possibly can, I will go live among them again.
Thank you again for saying what needs to be said, dear Caitlin, and rejecting IsraHell’s hasbara concerning Oct. 7. ( I love hearing the detestable Piers Morgan get destroyed by his guests when he continually bleats, BUT…BUT…BUT… what about HAMAS? 😁
My husband and others friends/ relations think I need to deal with my depression/anxiety by avoiding news of the occurring genocide. Not so fast. Like Caitlin mentions, we need to stay angry (and yes, depressed) if we are to be able to call ourselves human beings. I need to stay outraged; otherwise I’m no better than those ignoring the situation in anticipation of their Super Bowl parties.
When putting down rebellion or resistance to colonial occupation and abuse, the western colonialists have ALWAYS claimed to be defending themselves or “restoring order”,
But it not rocket science to understand what it means when bombs kill 3 children and 1 woman per man - and not even all the men are fighters.
This is old fashioned colonial massacre. Mass punishment and genocide. Now rebadged for the 21st century as “precision strikes”, and “targeted response”.
In a former incarnation of myself, I accepted that Israel had a right to exist, always hoping that there was somehow a two -state, one-state, whatever-number-worked state solution to the apartheid, I was far too optimistic, just as I was coming away from the Vietnam era and hoping my country would somehow learn to curb its rabid imperialist urges.
No more, no more. Say what you will to me, Israel appears to be a mass cultural psychosis of a war state, and I no longer believe in its right to exist.
I am guilty of the same. I used to think Israel did have the right to exist. Yes, despite knowing what they were doing to the Palestinians now for decades.
But this genocide ... is not acceptable by any moral standard. Israel has forfeited its moral right to exist as a state. If anyone needs to leave the Middle East - it should be the Israelis.
It has a right to exist and I never thought otherwise, but during it's existence it has brought death and destruction whose land was given to them.
The land was not given to them - they killed quite a few Palestinians that got in their way - and have been unjustly "taking" more land there ever since - much like the Americans did to the Indians. Most of the Israelis who live there now are descendents from other lands - and are not even native to the Middle East.
But even if it really was their land - which it isn't, this act of genocide backed by the majority of it's warrior citizen state - makes the nation a criminal rogue state - much like Germany was a criminal rogue state in the 1940s. The act of genocide is the greatest human evil that can possibly exist - outside of the destruction of all humanity via a nuclear conflagration. This great evil delegitimizes Israel's right to exist - similar to the evil the Nazis perpetrated. There is no moral standing here - or any reason for value or "rightness" - at all. Israel has forfeited its human rights as a nation.
The land was given to them, a UN decision that came with a lot of arm twisting, and the most fertile part of it. Not all of it, since Palestine got their share of their own land. OH, I know and I have never been a fan or Israel. I agree with everything you said. As I was growing up my mother, who was very political, was an anti-Zionist. I didn't pay close attention and even if I did I wouldn't know the layout of that part of the world, but she predicted what is happening now, which would bring in surrounding Arab states and there would be conflict between them. The US and Russia, both nuclear powers, would come into the fray aligned with different countries. The US with Israel and I don't remember too much because I turned a deaf ear to the world is going to enter WWIII. I hope she was wrong, but it scares me how this is playing out and the attack on the Houthis, and their relationship with Iran, and Iran's close connection to Russia.
Wise woman your mother.
Curious: what are your thoughts on mortality, which is something I often wonder about witnessing all this useless death. Are you a nihilist? An Existentialist? A Transcendentalist? Don't have to answer - given it is a bit personal, but it is something I've been thinking about quite a bit as I watch the daily Gaza horror show - mostly on Al Jazeera news. What's it all about?
Well a Unitarian Universalist, so a Transcendentalist, However I go my own way, and don't ask when I payed by congregation a visit. Since I was a child I felt you had a soul and your purpose was to protect it, not to let anyone destroy it, or take if away piece by piece. So when it comes to Israel for example and the horror it's creating in Gaza I denounce it, because to embrace it or accept it is to destroy your own soul. Hope that makes sense.
The corrupt Zionist entity took over as the dominant governing (???) body at the creation of Israel , and led the nation into the ideological terror it had become.
Religion and myth!
Watch out America because you too are going to be embroiled in religious wars.
Yeah, in the end, it's always Russia's fault....
She's been a bogey-man since I was a kid.
I never said it was, just a colonial mindset in play, but when the Ottoman empire fell after WWI it was theirs.
The land of Palestine belonged to the Ottoman Empire, who lost WWI. The French and English swooped in and established the mandate system. The English "gave" the Palestinian Mandate to the Jews, who subsequently proved unable/unwilling to share the land with its native residents. Voila - war on the Palestinians! Bad on the British and bad on the Jews. But here we are, now the international community is trying to preserve the native Palestininians while controlling the Jews. As long as the USA is funding Israel, the "war" will continue.
So, let's see if I've got this straight. If I steal a car and give it to a friend and then the actual owner of that car turns up on his doorstep demanding it back, he can resort to violence to retain possession of it. Because it was given to him.
Purely rhetorical of course, I haven't stolen any cars.
The land of Israel was given to them in the Balfour accords in the early 1920's once the Ottoman empire fell and Palestine was a part of that empire. In 1948 the UN divided up the land between the Jews and Palestinians and my point is get along which Israel didn't do, The Nakba, soon followed and it's been more or less down hill ever since and now Israel wants it all. You don't address me with a question and take on a demeaning tone.
I was not being 'demeaning' in any way. My comment was fully and entirely serious.
Lord Balfour did not own Palestine, it was not his to give away. Regardless of which megalomaniac Emperor or King claimed to rule Palestine, it always was Palestinian land. The Nakba was the Repo Man knocking on the door after the bank said they own your house.
Plus, before the Nakba, zionist guerillas attack the King David Hotel killing British military and civilian personnel. They hadn't been 'given' anything at that time.
P.S. what I don't do is take orders from complete strangers. That is demeaning!
Fine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It wasn't an order, it wasn't a request. I stated my position on how I want to be addressed. You never have to respond to anything I say, and it will be okay.
The Brits were required by the U.S. to create the Balfour Declaration if they wanted the US to enter WWI. They were between a rock and a hard place. So they did. The US demanded the Brits support a "Jewish Homeland" but it was supposed to be ONLY on uninhabited land, which of course there was none in the M.E. Unless you pretend Palestinians don't exist, which is why the Zionists did just that. And still do.
I know that the first Jewish supreme court justice, Brandeis pressured Balfour, but I have always read that the Zionist movement put a lot of pressure on him too. I'll look it up. In that time frame Arabs were, well, nobodies. A very prejudicial position in which many groups were included. I do ancestry and a relative fought in WWI and of course within months died, and I read when we entered that war immigrants and blacks are the one's that fought it. I wish people would look at our long history of prejudice that includes a whole lot of ethnic groups, as well as blacks. You were definitely white if you came from northern or western Europe, anyplace else, not really, and when they came here they were not treated well at all. Poles were even considered animals.
Yes , it would be like giving your home to someone else by your neighbor. If you tried to take my home, you would have an enemy for life. Sorry, that situation was pure racism. Ask yourself why would a group of nations steal land and then move hundreds of thousands of people force them to murder hundreds of thousands of people for land? When simply saying to them here is land in germany for you with the right of returning to property you owned prior to the Nazi. Free Free Palestine is the only answer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1PKlV1JMBU
Thanks for the link but I just watched that the other day. I really like him and his son Mate.
I don't think they would want to live in Germany after the holocaust, but they got the land of Palestine due to a colonial and prejudicial mindset which is still prevalent in the world. Germany of course is supporting their genocide. They learned so much from their history, right, no more killing Jews, but Palestinians, right on man.
Dear Fran. Why does Israel have the right to exist?
Why does Israel (because of religion and old myth) have the right to decimate the Palestinians who were already there?
Who called the Jewish people "The Chosen" ones?
Why are we continually supporting religious belief as though it is truth?
In America you have the Evangelicals who are telling schools and libraries what they can and cannot read?
When does this religious mania stop?
When religious wars start in the US, which I know you know is happening, what or whom is going to stop them?
It's a conundrum!
Jenny I'm not sure what it is you are trying to say to me. It's one thing to speak about what is going on in the US which I have no control over, and another to make it sound so personal, as if I am in agreement with the polices the US implements here and abroad, and if that is the case nothing could be further from the truth.
Just questions? That's all.
Most of it was acquired by forced displacement, burning Palestinian villages, and now by armed settlers or villages. Some was bought.. none outside 48
I have never said that I agreed with what Balfour did that is giving the Zioinist the land of Palestine where they had lived for many hundreds of years and were the dominant population. No more then I agree with America's decision to enter WWI and choose blacks and recent immigrants to fight it, which meant Italians, and Poles mostly. However it was legal. the Ottoman empire fell and they gave the land to the Zionists. However it was the UN in 1948 who made it official and they divided the land into Palestine and Israel, and Israel got the most fertile part of it, but then came the Nakba and many Palestinians were displaced. There is a difference between what is right and what they determine is legal or within their rights to implement. During that time frame there continued to be a very colonial mindset, which even continues to this day. It's only been within the last 60 years or so, the prejudicial attitudes toward Arabs has abated, well, mostly.
The Balfour Declaration, which resulted in a significant upheaval in the lives of Palestinians, was issued on November 2, 1917.
From Ajazeera,
The declaration turned the Zionist aim of establishing a Jewish state in Palestine into a reality when Britain publicly pledged to establish “a national home for the Jewish people” there.
The pledge is generally viewed as one of the main catalysts of the Nakba – the ethnic cleansing of Palestine in 1948 – and the conflict that ensued with the Zionist state of Israel.
May 1948 The vote in the U.N. that declared Israel was recognised as a country. The State of Israel is established for the first time.
I wonder how things would have been when the Israelis were moved to their new land. There was no internet?
We fought a war against Germany for the Holocaust. Who is fighting a war against Israel?
We did not fight a war against Germany for the Holocaust. We fought it to prevent Germany taking over all of Europe. This is what our schools are teaching kids. And it's simply not true.
Nobody's fighting a war against Israel. Israel is "fighting a war" against Hamas. The giant is very weak. And is an incredible bully with tremendous amounts of hatred--including self-hatred--to use as weapons. You have to have an enemy to create a national identity. That is what Catherine the Great did. Only at that time it was the Ashkenazi who were used as "the enemy" to create a "Russian" identity. Now as Israeli society is splintering, Netanyahu NEEDS Hamas as an enemy. Without Hamas he is nothing. Removal of Palestinians from the land of Palestine will be the end of Israel's existence. Who are they without the Palestinians?
Interesting argument.
All wars are economic. Including the second war. The nazis and their viciousness gave the US a more acceptable reason to join in the war. The munitions manufacturers in the US got rich. They will make a lot of money off the munitions that are being sent to Israel now.
Most Americans seem to forget that Pear Harbour was bombed by the Japanese which mostly forced them into WW2
The Ottoman Empire lost the land of Palestine under their control after WWI, so the Brits did own it, but it doesn't justify giving the land of Palestine to someone else.
Tax payers money?
In 1948 the UN divided the land between the Jewish people and the Palestinains and Israel was born. The ethnic cleansing I thing you are referring to is the nakba
I know they didn't and didn't have a choice, Never said they did.
Boo hoo
I have never thought highly of Israel knowing it's history, and it's multiple attacks on the Palestinians and perception of them as inferior, now their is only loathing for not only what the government of Israel is implementing but the silence of it's people when their country is implementing a genocide.
To be fair there are voices within Israel speaking out, B'Tselem comes to mind but there are others. From all accounts the population of Israel have been indoctrinated since birth, many have seen the video of school kids singing their version of Tomorrow Belongs To Me. The Israeli Govt. has turned Orwells' two minute hate into a lifetime hate.
Haven't we all been pummelled with that propaganda? WMDs, Evil Russia, Gadaffi in Libya whatever? What we need is a battalion of De-progammers and not just in Israel.
I know there are, but really too few. I'm not blaming the people of Israel but it's government. I always hated Netanyahu, nothing but a corrupt narcissistic bastard. This is what he always wanted, cultivated, and he fed Hamas, and empowered them since neither wanted a two state solution and he also sounds like a religious zealot. I think most people will put the blame where it belongs, and that is on his shoulders, and his extreme right wing party.
No nation has a right to exist. Where does this right come from? A group of people maybe move into some place first and no one else wants it -- Scotland or Iceland -- or they take over by force of arms and defend it the same way, like USA, Israel, Australia, Japan, China, and most of Europe. No rights in sight.
Peaceful intermingling is also possible, as in Malaysia.
Everyone has a ‘right to exist’. It would be best to stop this confusing terminology. This is a land dispute. It’s a simple problem but not a simple solution. I believe humans capable enough to resolve it but it will take people of moral character to lead efforts. Unfortunately, immoral people continue to sabotage a solution.
To demand that Palestinians recognize “Israel’s right to exist” is to demand that a people who have for almost 80 years been treated, and continue to be treated, as subhumans unworthy of basic human rights publicly proclaim that they are subhumans — and, at least implicitly, that they deserve what has been done, and continues to be done, to them. Here is an historically informative article: https://www.globalresearch.ca/on-israel-s-right-to-exist/7680
It never had the right to exist.
Much like apartheid South Africa.
Indeed, I have watched it. Enormously revealing.
Zionisim is an inherently racist and hostile
Ideology, and it has no boundaries to what ever extreme ends it will go to.
What will become of the surviving Palestinians both in Gaza and the West Bank ? How can this ever improve without them being forever protected by forces on the ground in the country ? I can’t imagine this ever being possible . Imagine living with and next to an abhorrent regime like Israel ? So what will become if the surviving Palestinians ? 😞
I read it too.....
Not only the cultural forces
A rare deep understanding of Israeli society. See Hedges excellent interview. "Chris Hedges Report with Miko Peled, the son of an Israeli general who served in the Special Forces in the Israeli army, on the racist indoctrination and militarization of Israeli society." Peled woke up. Transformed himself. (chrishedges.substack.com) Activist and author.
That interview is invaluable for understanding Israeli society. Brilliant piece of journalism.
Thank you for this, there are times I’ve felt like I’m going insane due to the lack of media coverage or the bias and distortion. How can it be controversial to ask for the killing of babies to stop?
"How can it be controversial to ask for the killing of babies to stop?"
It's not controversial to ask. The controversy arises when the answer is "no, we will do this again and again until the very rocks and trees expose the last surviving member of the enemy race to our sword."
Israel has kidnapped Gods word from the Old Testament and in effect criminalized it.
I'm desperately trying not to conflate Zionist Israeli murderers with ordinary Jews in Australia. But I'll never forgive those who do not disavow this Genocide...
Genocide, no matter who commits it, should Never Be Forgotten and Never Allowed. If there is any human act that is an absolute moral red line - it's the unforgivable evil of genocide.
Oh? It seems to be de riguer for The Stae, no matter what its' format! And Genocide is very, very good for the bottom line of the MIC.
State!
If you don't read John Menadue you should check out Geoff Pryors' cartoons. He's been dishing up some good stuff.
If you look at the real history of the U.S. (not what you are taught in school) you will realize that we have never had democracy. The mostly British dissolute second sons were given huge tracts of land in order to send resources back to the motherland where they added value and sold products elsewhere to increase their wealth (where "King" Charles' wealth comes from, BTW). The people who actually own and rule this country haven't changed all that much. Our elections are rigged long before the primaries.
If you want things to change, change the way you live. Don't support these psychopathic people. Boycott their ventures and corporations and non-profits. The works. And for humanity's sake stop waiting for some savior to come give you something for nothing. If the people will lead, the leaders will follow. LEAD. If you buy into "the American Dream" you're just giving away your power. You were born with all the power you need. Use it wisely. Stop funding the industrial-military complex.
FYI, military recruiters are in overdrive. If you have kids who are teens or 20-somethings, guard them with your life. Uncle Sam is coming for them. They are gearing up for yet another war. IT'S SO BORING.
Lead yourself. BLM wasn't what it appeared to be and resulted in the destruction of minority neighborhoods and the acquisition by the already-wealthy of yet more property. Although I supported the intentions, I have to say it looked pretty hysterical and meaningless. Mostly middle class White people around here with placards. No real substance.
Editing posts is always a good idea.
The U.S. offered green cards (or was it citizenship) to immigrants who signed up for Iraq wars. I don't think most of them got whatever it was they were promised.
Sinking of an aircraft carrier? Just blame the Arabs. What the fuck do those American aircraft carriers think they're going to do? This is not the 1950's.
Occupy Wall Street was greenwashed by the very corporations they were objecting to. Do you have a retirement fund? Investments? IRA account? Stocks? Bonds? A new car? Where do you live? Do you own your own essential stuff like housing, food, water, energy? It's not a matter of getting out in the streets with placards. It's a matter of making little choices in your life that are aligned with your political beliefs. Stop using Amazon, Microsoft, social media, driving all over tarnation, cell phones (GOD! that is a no-brainer), get off the grid, grow your own food, help your friggin' neighbor, educate your own, create your own employment, control your own water supply. Stop buying, buying, buying. Stop using the healthcare system--treat yourself. Educate yourself. Run for your local school board. Talk to everyone you meet about real subjects, not the weather.
I think a digital-free day every week does wonders to clean out the crap in your brain.
People don't have access to the facts. So if you are in possession of facts, share them. What intelligent person reads legacy media anymore? Who watches TV? I sure as hell don't.
How do you think the Iranian Revolution happened? Waiting for a leader? NO. People gathered, peacefully, at specific locations which were communicated by a system of whistles and other human-powered audio message at night on the rooftops. The army did not want to kill their own extended family members. They were shamed out of participating in the Shah's regime and eventually joined the demos. The Shah had to run. The CIA had to run. The wealthy ruling class had to run. The Ayatollah filled the vacuum because the mosque was the only place groups of people could legally gather. Yes. They had a law pre-Revolution that a gathering of three or more could be put into jail for political conspiracy. Three people. And if you don't think the CIA was calling the shots, you are seriously ill-informed.
January 6 were following the Orange Pumpkin. They were not thinking for themselves. They were USED by Trump and apparently they have learned NOTHING from recent history. Here we go again. And, for the record, I'm not voting for ANY candidate who is pro-Israeli. Forget Republicans. They're not in touch with reality.
FYI, part of my childhood I grew up in Iran. So, yes, I do know more than you do about how the Revolution happened. I knew within five days of getting there that there was going to be one (1967) and actually told the number 3 CIA guy in Tehran in 1971 that there would be one (he jeered at me and said "organizing Iranians is like herding cats"--verbatim quote). Sometimes racism (or sexism, for that matter) is the most powerful tool the disempowered have because the dominating powers participate in their own overthrow. American activists have often told me that the Iranian Revolution took 30 years of steering committee meetings and organized demos, etc. I just have to laugh. (For one thing, the Shah hadn't been in power for 30 years when he was overthrown). Maybe in the West. Secret meetings held by university students and professors is NOT the way revolutions happen. That sort of thing could (and did) get you thrown into Evin, the prison they put political prisoners in. If you think the Iranian Revolution of 1979 was a CIA operation, you know nothing about it. And you assume the CIA are a lot brighter than they actually are. Khomeini's coming to power WAS as a result of CIA activity destroying reasonable alternatives. And Bush Sr. made a deal with Khomeini during the Hostage Crisis not to release them until after Reagan's inauguration. Do I need to add that that was treason? There is only one US President at a time.
Ayatollah Khomeini did not run the Iranian Revolution. What a bunch of pap. You have NO idea how oppressive living in a police state actually is. People just couldn't take anymore. I saw that this was going to happen in fucking 1967 as a kid after I'd been there for only five days and knew only a smattering of Farsi. It was fucking obvious. Khomeini came to power because of the tension between the "bazaari" (business class) and the mosque that went back at least to Reza Shah's time and probably longer--I'm not an expert on Iranian history. The Shah turned him into a folk hero when he expelled him from the country into exile in the 60's, no doubt at the behest of the idiot CIA.
The CIA didn't bother to learn Farsi or the culture or the history, for that matter, and PAID for their information, just like the US military PAID for info on people they stuck in Guantánamo. They didn't have a clue. And I know this because I played dumb and watched them like a hawk. And taught myself to remember. You know, like Woody Allen, I developed a habit by the age of 3 of saying, "Note to self: ..." This really helps lay down memories permanently. Making connections is not that hard to do once you make a habit of thinking about what you have witnessed deeply.
I am not an organization person. And I wouldn't presume to have answers for anyone else. I am saying you need to be the most important leader in your own life. And, as you should have learned from the Women's Movement, the personal is political and the political is personal. Live by that dictum and you will be all right. Does your personal life reflect your political beliefs? If not, change it until it does.
If you don't get off the grid, you are going to be powerless, quite literally, soon enough. The people in power have been warning us about what's coming--THIS YEAR--for months and months and months. They're trying to prepare the population to blame a cyber attack of esssential services on Iran. They've put a former MOSSAD agent's company in charge of the security of all vital services, including your health information, utilities, security at nuclear bomb storage sites, the works.
Wake up, John. At least create an alternative power source for electric power you cannot live without. Check out Bluetti solar generator systems. You can get enough off the grid to survive a nation-wide power outage with around $500 bucks--and a little more for a small string of (foldable!) solar panel. It'll cost you around $50 to set up a rain barrel water catchment system, no matter where you live. And you really should have three months' dry goods and canned veggies in your kitchen. In South India they make kitchen stoves with three bricks and a coconut frond. You can make do with a handful of sticks from a branch fallen from a tree in your yard, or someone else's yard.
Gaza's mistake is that it was on the grid when the Israelis attacked. They shouldn't have relied solely on electric to pump water and sewage. I have multiple systems. None cost more than $50. This is not rocket science and it doesn't require an organize with bi-laws, committees, minutes, a power structure, yada yada yada. Sorry to say this, but that is SO White male. Channel your grandparents and think about what they knew, how they lived. Or your great-grandparents, if you are young enough.
Resilience. That's what you need. In real, practical terms.
'I'm not about to go "off-grid". Nor am I going to stop playing the "money game". Calls for following this "plan" are naive.
IMHO you're not thinking clearly about how a revolt might be organized. And you throw out a bunch of stuff, that doesn't prove anything to support your claim that "the people can just 'do it'".'
If you are not only unable but also unwilling to do those things, you are in no way a supporter of revolt, because you are opposed to the most pure and effective form of revolt against the system.
What is being said there *is* revolutionary. What you are saying is a naïve fantasy of violent revolt against the system, not one that can be put into effective practice by an individual.
People really can "just do it", if they are daring, but as Schiller put it in his lied Sehnsucht: "You must believe, you must dare it, for the Gods make no pledges; only a miracle can carry you into that fair land of wonder."
The only class that has ever really succeeded in organising violent revolutions in history is the ruling one. Violent revolt generally as a rule can be expected to strengthen the system by giving the power elite casus belli against the public.
Chris Hedges explains that practical revolt better than I could in his book "Death of the Liberal Class", so I will quote a couple paragraphs from the last chapter of the book, rather than repeat it myself in a lesser way. It is not the naïve kind, but rather the only practical kind that you could either work toward or start doing right now. Your understanding is the wrong way around.
"As communities fragment under the weight of internal chaos and the increasingly dramatic changes caused by global warming and economic despair, they will face a difficult choice. They can retreat into a pure survivalist mode, a form of primitive tribalism, without linking themselves to the concentric circles of the wider community and the planet. This retreat will leave participants as morally and spiritually bankrupt as the corporate forces arrayed against us. It is imperative that, like the monasteries in the Middle Ages, communities nurture the intellectual and artistic traditions that make possible a civil society, humanism, and the common good. Access to parcels of agricultural land will be paramount. We will have to grasp, as the medieval monks did, that we cannot alter the larger culture around us, at least in the short term, but we may be able to retain the moral codes and culture for generations beyond ours. As those who retained their identity during slavery or the long night of twentieth-century fascism and communism discovered, resistance will be reduced to small, often imperceptible acts of defiance. Music, theatre, art, poetry, journalism, literature, dance, and the humanities, including the study of philosophy and history, will be the bulwarks that separate those who remain human from those who become savages.
We stand on the verge of one of the bleakest periods in human history, when the bright lights of civilizations will blink out and we will descend for decades, if not centuries, into barbarity. The elites, who successfully convinced us that we no longer possessed the capacity to understand the revealed truths presented before us or to fight back against the chaos caused by economic and environmental catastrophe, will use their resources to create privileged little islands where they will have access to security and goods denied to the rest of us. As long as the mass of bewildered and frightened people, fed images by the organs of mass propaganda that permit them to perpetually hallucinate, exist in this state of barbarism, they may periodically strike out with a blind fury against increased state repression, widespread poverty, and food shortages. But they will lack the ability and self-confidence to challenge in big and small ways the structures of control. The fantasy of widespread popular revolts and mass movements breaking the hegemony of the corporate state is just that—a fantasy."
John, the answer is armed Revolution, and all of us coming together regardless of political leanings to foment this, because every single one of us knows that the regime works for everyone EXCEPT the American people.
And we can’t be afraid to die to take back this country from Zio control.
Hi Gypsy.
Unions are the only way to take back your country.
Hi Jenny
It does appear that unions are making a comeback here. My husband is retired UAW, still pays union dues which is voluntary. I’m so proud of new UAW president Shawn Fain, who has real GUTS.
Yes. 100% agree.
and it will go on and on because those you are revolting against have bigger guns, more money and big jails
Bigger guns? Not bloody likely.
No jail for me: they’d have to kill me first. As I have reiterated many times, WE MUST NOT BE AFRAID TO DIE.
And I personally am not.
The most important part of what I replied is that it will go on and on because at this point, we would not win an armed revolution. There has to be another way to turn things around. It is commendable that you are not afraid to die, but we can't bring about much change when we are dead.
Susan:
There are more of US than there are of THEM.
Put more faith in Unions I think?
I object to YOUR assumption that by “Zio”, I mean “Jew”. If you cannot distinguish between between the two, your ignorance is appalling.
Do you really believe I object to, say, Jewish Voice for Peace?
I’m speaking of the pathetic Amerikkkan politicians who take IsraHell’s side because they have their filthy hands in AIPAC’s bottomless pockets.
Question: Is it antisemitic to find the Jewish faith obnoxious? In fairness, I consider all religions obnoxious...they tend to worsen conflict. The Bible is the literal word of god?! I don't care what people believe as long as they do no harm to others. And that includes not getting people fired for supporting Palestinians. How putridly ARROGANT.
BRILLIANT!
"Israel demanding that everyone condemn the Hamas attack is like a bunch of thugs punching a man in the face over and over and then demanding that everyone condemn him for hurting their hands."
Too true that the MSM only says "Iranian-backed Houthis" but never, ever, "US-supported Israel." Little tricks of language turn the trick. Propaganda's all in the framing...
Long live the Hout’his!
🇾🇪🇾🇪🇾🇪
Good point.
Huh, today being anti-Semitic also include being anti-genocide. Having read up on Israel's modern history, that zionist state has for 75 years abuse the guilt of the world for the Jewish Holocaust, and made a nation which took no part in that Holocaust victims of the Israeli evangelical revenge. No Israel would be a good solution. And Netanyahu seems like a reincarnation of Heinrich Himmler!
We should not allow ourselves to assume guilt or blame as the perpetrators are psychopathic control freaks and the following link provides key points in how to deal with them, usually in the work place but also applicable in this situation--https://proschoolonline.com/blog/signs-you-are-dealing-with-a-control-freak
We should hope and pray the International Court of Justice comes down hard on Netanyahu as this would destroy him totally with huge consequences for Israel.
It was reported soon after Oct.7th the Attack by Hamas was intended to seize hostages to trade for Palestinians held prisoner in Israeli jails. Does this hold true?
These are black days for Biden and Blinken as they are the two people in the world that could have stopped the genocide in its tracks. Biden met with Netanyahu in Tel Aviv on October 10th and did nothing!!!!
Yes. Al-Qassem Brigades attack on Israel on October 7th was a military action with a specific military objective: to capture Israeli hostages, alive and unharmed, in order to exchange them for Palestinian prisoners. There was a precedent for this, when the return of a soldier taken prisoner by Hamas resulted in the release of 1000 Palestinian political prisoners. That was the objective of October 7th.
What happened on October 7th is very murky. The most plausible is that Hamas wanted hostages to bargain with Israel for the release of Palestinian political prisoners held in Israeli jails. It is coming out that most of the dead in the kibbutz area were the casualties of friendly fire. Of course Israel says otherwise - can we believe the Israeli authorities at all, or the western media, for the matter?
It looks unlikely that the ICJ will make any definitive ruling on the case.
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2024/01/your-man-in-the-hague-in-a-good-way/
OF course not..the US has veto power.
Thanks for sending the link, very informative
The Court of Justice can be vetoed by the US!
Of course like everything else progressive or just it vetoes , but let's make it a very expensive veto. Let's take the measure of how much disgrace it is willing to endure and how much lose of face in the world community. Let's plumb the depths of it shameless behaviors .
Yes I have thought of this.
My understanding is that we will know who voted for and against.
I don't think it will be a surprise but I hope it will engender some form of shame.
The empire is digging its grave one shovelful at a time. Its the control freak out of control.
Yes.
That must be one reason why this is happening then, no consequence waiting for anyone, at least not a legal one. I’m so sickened by this.
Do you think there is a chance that the International Court will come down hard on Netanyahu? I don’t know much about these proceedings.
It is a tough call and a test for the integrity of the court . They are under tremendous pressure to let Netanyahu off. Their decision is a very hot political potato!!
Israel's "border" problem with the Palestinians did in the League of Nations. It might be the death of the UN.
NO. The US has veto power.
There is no doubt this genocide is wrecking my life the only consolation is to bury myself in books.
Even when I am out walking my dog I cannot forget what is happening.
I am a fragile person with a strong inner core but this is defeating me.
Yes we must allow our feelings out but I do have to take a break sometimes because of my health.
All the best Jenny. We are with you!
How kind Joy.
What a nice bunch of people here.
Meow if you need to.
Thanks Feral. Woof back.
my dog gets me through a lot of difficult times.
Dog walking and books are essential. Getting into a forest of trees is also very worth while.
Having a poet in your pocket is better than money.
Hi Jenny
I truly empathize with you. Books and painting are my only escapes at this time, since farming doesn’t exist here during the winter.
I have days when I feel suicidal but I don’t want to hurt my brother by taking my own life.
Please continue to reach out to us dear Jenny. I think more of us are in the same boat than one might think. You are an awesome human being.
Dear Gypsy.
I was writing really in answer to Caitlin.
Seems she understands our despair too.
Yes.....some of us are deeply traumatized by this "bloodbath." I have never seen anything worse on such a huge scale.
Don't do the suicidal thing. I too can't leave my dog/cats and husband.
I guess a lot of people felt this way before WW1 & 2
How everyone got through that I don't know.
Awesome no but I care very deeply like you do.
Hugssssss
Don't let the bastards get you down. It's exactly what they want. Please know that we need each other. Together, our strength is immeasurable.
I wish. Unfortunately I am inundated with Doctor visits.
The more general question of whether or not Israel was a huge tragic mistake needs be considered now. I completely agree with the capacity for Biden to end this atrocity immediately. Just stop all aid of any kind to Israel, immediately
Why they get aid is puzzling. Israelis live 17 years longer than Americans Natives and 5 years longer than Americans in general, with their free health care. Americans get sick and are frequently bankrupted by their illness, in contrast.
The Israel Lobby in the US is why Biden is compelled to participate in the atrocity. If the Lobby members admitted they were foreign agents, things might change. Until then their wealth controls American behavior towards Israel. And, ultimately, our tax laws are being used against us.
I agree with you Susan. I have struggled with this question since this terrible tragedy started to reveal so much about the West. It is the same in the UK . I stopped reading right wing newspapers and watching government friendly newspapers when the penny dropped. I feel ashamed that I believed everything I read and heard . The question is.... how many of these pro Israel politicians and television presenters actually believe what they’re saying and how many are being bribed ? I watch the likes of Piers Morgan and Julia Hartley -Brewer and the majority of our politicians with disgust and dismay . Israel is a deeply unwell country .
Sadly true. All candidates for office pledge allegiance to the flag but I guess they have their fingers crossed behind their back.
Also...We should never forget that the IDF killed as many or more Israelis on Oct.7 as Hamas, and has admitted it..And they have admitted having orders to kill Israelis rather than take the chance they would be taken as hostages...
Since I was in my early teens, my growing realization of the true state of affairs has caused me to slide into periods of mild despair, which have developed now into full blown depression. I haven't lost the will to live, but I have lost the will to live in support of war, authoritarianism and the relentless pursuit of profit.
It is my firm belief that the only way to stop this madness is if enough of us can find the courage to turn our backs on modern 'civilization' in its current form and plot a new course. I also believe that pursuing this goal relentlessly is the only hope I have of ever curing my depression, unless I wanna just do like the majority and numb myself to the pain with insane amounts of drugs.
Hi Mads. You sound similar to me I have drugs but they don't numb the pain, just keep me somewhat stable.
Yes I keep thinking of 'plotting a new course' too but I don't seem to have the energy.
I will talk with my Psychiatrist tomorrow which often helps.
I used to do a lot of art and photography but my mind is numb.
Look after yourself and let me know how you are.
BIG hugs.
Hi Jenny,
The trouble with drugs is that they tend to distort reality a bit. Make you complacent and just go along with the prevailing narrative. I don’t think we’re the problem, I think the narrative is. And no amount of drugs is gonna change that.
Have you read about Bill Gates' new venture? Cutting and burying the forests of the West in order to prevent them dying and expiring methane. After 175 years buried, the wood will become "harder" and be wonderful for building even more energy-inefficient homes with which to rip off the public. You'd best spend as much time in your RV as you can, Bill. The National Forests are the next resource in Billy Boy's sights. I suppose Bill plants on a cryogenic afterlife.
That's totally the right spirit. No question about that. But I think it's equally important to come together and create new and powerful narratives that can take the place of the bullshit we are being fed, and to realize the true nature of what we're up against. In fact, I just finished writing a little piece about that. Might be of interest:
https://thescrawnyape.substack.com/p/power-of-addiction
He sure does! I'm very inspired by his work. But I think you will find that I put a slightly different spin on things, and the piece is not about addiction in the way I think most people define it.
Yeah, some of the most amazing people I've come across lived far from boardrooms, fancy gyms and supermarkets. As soon as I possibly can, I will go live among them again.
I read the Axios thing today. I had to laugh it was so transparent. I mean, good grief! Really people?
Do you have a link?
Thank you again for saying what needs to be said, dear Caitlin, and rejecting IsraHell’s hasbara concerning Oct. 7. ( I love hearing the detestable Piers Morgan get destroyed by his guests when he continually bleats, BUT…BUT…BUT… what about HAMAS? 😁
My husband and others friends/ relations think I need to deal with my depression/anxiety by avoiding news of the occurring genocide. Not so fast. Like Caitlin mentions, we need to stay angry (and yes, depressed) if we are to be able to call ourselves human beings. I need to stay outraged; otherwise I’m no better than those ignoring the situation in anticipation of their Super Bowl parties.
When putting down rebellion or resistance to colonial occupation and abuse, the western colonialists have ALWAYS claimed to be defending themselves or “restoring order”,
But it not rocket science to understand what it means when bombs kill 3 children and 1 woman per man - and not even all the men are fighters.
This is old fashioned colonial massacre. Mass punishment and genocide. Now rebadged for the 21st century as “precision strikes”, and “targeted response”.