Dehumanisation is one of the tricks used by western propagandists. They are truly successful at their job, and have a Nazi-like skill in propaganda. Check out my article:
I have (had) a friend who told me that Arabs hate Jews. I disagreed with her. I managed to get her thinking about it enough that she hired a Muslim Arab woman to look after her children and she really liked her. Then October 7 happened and I became a lover of Palestinians. I tried again to get her to see the situation differently, but she refuses to speak to me. This type of dehumanization happens a lot. Slavery happened in the US, but when I was travelling around Europe I noticed that there was a huge amount of racism in most of the cities I visited. I think that we people, not just westerners either, have some kind of need to be the "best" of everyone. We need to learn a different way of being. Somehow.
There has been a concerted campaign through mainstream media to brainwash people into fearing and hating Arabs in general and Muslims in particular. It has been slow and steady and more insidious because of that.
As to racism in European cities, it is worth bearing in mind that Europe has suffered more than most, as has the UK, from the millions of refugees created by American wars of hegemony. Combined with that has been the disaster that is multiculturalism where people are not encouraged to assimilate but to remain separate.
Too many European countries and the UK have seen too many refugees, too many migrants, too quickly and with Government policies which promote separation not assimilation. That is always a recipe for racism and it does not matter where it happens, Europe, India, Asia, Africa - except it is Europe which has copped most of the refugees.
Europeans are the original settler colonialists. America, Canada, Australia, New Zealand are all European settler colonies. The first “refugees” in Europe were the making of its own plunder of far away lands. And It is the descendants of the same Europeans who have continued the plunder as “Americans”. That refugees continue to pour into Europe today is mostly a result of geography and American “exceptionalism”.
Excellent point. Calling other western countries lackeys of the US minimizes the fact that these lackeys were going colonization and dehumanizing before the existence of the US.
Since history makes it very clear all humans have colonised I am not sure how you could prove your claim.
The Maoris colonised a lot of the Pacific, including Hawaii and New Zealand and violently so.
Australian aborigines were the descendants of many different waves of migration and colonisation.
The Mongols, Asians, had the biggest empire in all history. The Arabs, Ottomans, Turks invaded, occupied and colonised throughout the Middle East, India and Europe.
All humans started out in Africa, ergo, every country on earth is the result of settler colonialism or Africa would be very crowded. And study Africa, the history of tribes invading, occupying, colonising before the Europeans can be found. The difference is they killed most of those they colonised or kept and sold them as slaves.
Anglo-European settler colonialists are just better documented for English speakers but none of it was new.
Roslyn Ross, You are very devious and deceptive. I cannot find any 'kinder' words to describe your motive. You pretend to be progressive and in the same breath distorts human evolution and transmigration - it was always thus, so why be critical of present day atrocities. This is another version of dehumanisation of the "other" which Caitlin writes about very eloquently here in her Newsletter.
What you are saying is why care about the present day Israeli war crimes, carnage and genocide, why go on about past colonisation, imperialism and slavery. It has all happened before!
>>"Roslyn Ross, You are very devious and deceptive."
🎯
Thank you Indu - I knew there was something wrong with this "Roslyn Ross" character and the way she presented her arguments. She comes off as some sort of "Western apologist" to me...
"What you are saying is why care about the present day Israeli war crimes" - how so? Care to point which lines one must read between to arrive at such conclusion?
Thanks for that history lesson. By that logic, the Nazi’s were just doing what history has always done. We should have just moved on. Why have we been constantly reminded of it for the last century? Why did we write laws and statutes to prevent their crimes from occurring again? Or did those laws have hidden fine print that we were never taught?
This is true and what are the USA doing about this?
YOU America started wars as did the French/Spanish etcetera.
BUT you Americans with your money and complicit propaganda (also in the West) You started wars in S. America when you disliked new Govts. which were left. NOW you are complaining about immigration.
to be extremely honest, nobody gives any clue about jews - this is what i noticed. It's some of them who went by "I am jewish - I am special" - but usually we are too busy paying taxes, than thinking about "jews" lol
you are so right ! It is seldom that before and even now, I engage(d) into discussions about jewish. It is rather since Oct 7, that discussions focus on zionism linked to Gaza and the US but never about a specific religion. When living in Europe, it is quite natural to have either muslim or jewish friends. However, I find pple more discriminative abt social status rather than religion. We, as humans, hate or at least are suspicious about social differences, about poverty, about anything that is not like us! Hence, any minority living in our respective countries is perceived as a potential threat to our self centered lives. Not to speak about civilians from the middle eastern Muslim countries, they are for now, designated as the terrorists! You will seldomly hear about the largest muslim country that exists : Indonesia … nor hear about the very large muslim community of India … maybe in the future, when needed, will we hear new narratives. All is based on the agenda of government’s interests, reinforced by a man created narrative. Any fascist mindset knows that migration & religious racism, are the weak point on which to hammer the uneducated layers of population to reach to a consensus. I find we are pathetic and so uneducated with little to zero form of consciousness or wisdom. Sometimes I wonder who the subhumans are.
I disagree Jennifer, I think that children are naturally compassionate and sharing. We have to be taught to believe in 'mine' and 'people like me are better than people like you'. The epitome is the poor children born into this brutal regime and conditioned, like Pavlov's dogs, to hate and kill Palestinians on sight.
It's also finely honed to good (bad) use on social media where we're corralled into groups (left, right environmental, free speech) and taught to hate each other.
I wish I could be more optimistic about human nature, but I'm not. I got moved around a lot as a kid and there wasn't much natural compassion and sharing in evidence among the kids I encountered.
Optimistic we probably should be in terms of efforts to be vigilant and keep improving, but idealistic about human nature - not.
It baffles me how people - especially the militant atheist type - can on one hand dismiss the proper religions' assertions that humans are fallible and must be taught to take care of themselves and others, and on the other maintain that via evolution humans are animals.
Anyone who had kids or who could observe kids from someone in the family, can readily attest to the fact that children if left to their own devices will quickly behave like little animals. With no problems in the family otherwise, perfect parenting, no abuse, no nothing, yet they are like that, unless properly disciplined and kept in check.
Otherwise, why have parenting at all? Produce kids, put them in an environment where they are fed and cared for in terms of their physical needs, and leave them alone. The ideal human being problem solved.
Children are also naturally curious. I always wanted to know more about people who were "different" than me. I learned that they were scary from other people who were "the same" as me.
The average chimp you mean.Then there are the smaller but significant number that look up to raise the boats & the few devious ones that stab the rest in the back
I’m finding most people really have difficulty facing the fact that the whole system is predicated on lies evil lies which means they took part in the system their parents took part in the system of oppression and horrific atrocities we are now confronted w/ live? Fear & denial are easier. Facing ones own demons is hard so the bslm of propaganda worjs like a charm.
You should check out the coexistence of the Arabs and Jews in Hebron in 1929, the women shared their breast milk / breasts with each other's babies then suddenly the Arabs turned after being agitated by the mufti who gave plans to Hitler to kill all of the jews, Francisco Gil white offers perspective
Slight correction - "dehumanization" is used for ALL genocides by all cultures (not just by the West alone).
Here's one example: The Hindutvas (a subset of Hindus) in India dehumanize Muslims in India in similar ways to how the Zionists dehumanize the Palestinians (though to a different scale and level).
My use of "cultures" is in the context of "human cultures and societies" - not organizational cultures like "military, corporations", etc. Military is NOT a culture - military is an organizational system (which has its own culture) just like every organizational system has its own culture.
Roslyn Ross - based on previous discussions with you, I'm really not interested in ANY interactions with you. Please don't respond to my comments.
I realised that is what you meant but merely make the point, in order to train people to kill other humans, as the military does and it is a human culture and a society then a level of dehumanization is required.
You will find all military systems do the same thing to train humans to kill other humans.
Susan T, you, like everybody else, failed to realize the issue. Everyone knows that military indoctrinates a culture of "dehumanizing the enemy" in order to achieve its goals (this is not new information, it has been known for centuries).
The discussion is NOT about militaries or "who does the killing". It's about the the "dehumanization in society" - i.e. the dehumanization of Palestinians by "ordinary non-military Israelis", or the dehumanization of Muslims by Hindus in India, etc. Genocides happen BECAUSE there is a pervasive culture of dehumanization in the society at large (again - this has nothing to do with the military - that is a different aspect).
Do a study of Genocides in history. Without dehumanization of "others" it is impossible for a genocide to take place (regardless of if the military is involved or not).
is military not part of the society chokaski? you seem to be asserting your whatever by twisting any argument in a way that would suit your self-perceived bigness. which actually indicates your smallness.
to repeat: is military not part of the society? "ordinary non-military israelies" - do they not do the killing via military means?
truth but who cares in present tense ? WE ARE IN IT🤷♀️NOW.No history or abstraction? &Ukraine Myanmar, Congo, Haiti,Cuban sanctions... but we are supplying a Genocidal rabid lap dog TURNING the Middle East NOW,into a meat grinder for mostly children & those under 40 ? worsening daily the last 384 days over 10/7 a zionist/Us approved & created IDF Slaughter of their own? si its fucking different to me today at 65 ive had efuckinough.
Actually it's the same people. Which makes it even more devious and sinister when those in Kiev and Lvov dehumanize those in Donetsk/Lugansk and elsewhere in Russia.
Btw, some Israelis don't look white at all. The ones originally from the area, from places in Africa, etc. They're probably as close to Palestinians as can be. Which doesn't prevent dehumanization from taking place.
Yes they are the same people and as we know from studying civil wars through history, even the same people and family can be dehumanized. It is harder but it happens.
I am not sure blaming Western propagandists as any particular group really works when we know that Zionists, Israelis, Jews control mainstream media and a lot of other media and the corridors of Government power in the US and other countries. They are the ones who dispense the propaganda and one could hardly call them Western given their primitive, Biblical barbarism.
I do wonder if seeking to conflate everything Western with the evil that is Israel works in any effective way. Yes the US and its lackey allies have participated in this genocide but that does not make it a Western thing, just an American hegemonic thing and reflective of the power ZIJ has in the US.
Toss it all into the same pot and you are saying that the West is no different to Sickrael when most Western countries, thankfully, are nothing like the State of Hate.
“Yes the US and its lackey allies have participated in this genocide but that does not make it a Western thing, just an American hegemonic thing and reflective of the power ZIJ has in the US.”
What complete and utter bullshit. This is a genocide conducted by the United States of Genocide, for the United States of Genocide, with the support of all its imperial vassals.
We all should know WE(The West) created Israel to fein sympathy for Jews. We had a F load of Nazi support in Crapitolism pre war (look it up im from NJ i know) Russia defeats the Nazis at a 26 million human cost to them. We wont take the Jews in we make Palestinians do it. With that decision (F poor Palestine)We get THE strategic spot To 1 steal resourses, in MID EAST &2 watch over area, spy on Iran in particular,We position to awuire silk rd. Israell Our “Aircraft carrier” to control the “Others”. Then propagandized the Arabs & Russians as axcess of evil , monsters 24/7 rewrite history . While we hide or assimilate all the Nazi scientists & elites & act as though We hated all the atrocities we then profiteered off & we practiced everywhere to decimate everyone else. We did versions of what Israel is doing now, in Vietnam,Africa,S.America The numerous island nations we erased . Lets us not forget this America IT ALL STARTED HERE W/ indigenous genocide & slavery so...? Whos zoomin who?
Abuse reflects on you, not me. You want it all to be the fault of what you call the West and I merely point out, many non-Western nations are along for the ride and always have been.
I suppose you were watching all the uncensored international news in languages that you clearly understood & speak viewing events around the world sans United States propaganda?Lets say you had access to an all inclusive pov ? lucky you.How then did you come to your BY THE BOOK CIA TALKING POINTS BS?
You are assuming the US represents the Western world. It does not. It represents itself and nothing else. Its lackey allies comply for totally different reasons.
Bullshit. If the rest of the “western world” (a.k.a. United States of Genocide + vassals) were even vaguely opposed to the genocide, they would have imposed a total arms embargo on Israel six months ago, and prevented all shipments from passing through their territory. FFS, the UK is not only supplying arms for an active genocide, it is conducting intelligence flights on behalf of Israel every fucking day. Take your lying bullshit somewhere else please.
You misunderstand. I said, its lackey allies comply for totally different reasons. Usually those reasons are American bullying and blackmail at various levels. And no, I do not condone their genocidal cowardice, I merely make the point the US does not represent the West and there is no united Western world on this issue.
It is not so much that the vassals support genocide but that they support their continued survival far more.
The UK is glued at the hip to the US because it makes it feel it is still important when it is not. Living in the shadow of power creates the illusion of power.
Australia goes along with some mutterings because both major political parties believe that only the US would come and save Australia if needed. Sane Australians do not believe that but politics being what it is, there is less wriggle room.
As John Mearsheimer said, during a talk in Australia, the Australians have no choice but to do what the US wants. Sad but true. So we piffle and waffle and bleat a little and do what we can but yes, it is singular cowardice. Combined with that of course is the blackmail and bullying of the Zionists, Israelis and Jews.
If only nations were free, If only Governments had integrity.
It is the west that supports IT. The bombs blowing up children are supplied by the west. And now we have American ships and even troops protecting IT while war crimes are escalating. The west may as well help with the bombing.
The US supports it by providing the weapons. The lackey allies sometimes provide backup. Germany is of course fully on board carrying the shredded remains of the Jewish holocaust flag.
and they do and they will and your kids American kids will die so bra-fuckin'o. hope your cell phone's worth it. Fuck this denial. I feel like I'm surrounded by ostriches. so watch your tail feathers Russia China Iran & the rest of actual civilization are done w/ us. complicit people you're risk of getting us all cooked more like what the rest of the worlds daily risk has been for a century,is coming home to roost. not like you haven't been warned for the last 50+years. Greedy always loses ,may take a long time ,but in the end it always does ,and it's always ugly. im 66 next month so wtf do i care about you fools left bullshitting ea other? I care about the people that will get stuck going down with you. the ones who don't want any part of this greedy shit show. Fuck any of you complicit genocidal supporting motherfuckers good luck your repulsive.
"that does not make it a Western thing, just an American hegemonic thing" - well, since Americans will insist on calling themselves westerners, along with western Europe (which calls itself a beautiful garden or something) then by removing events involving Israel you're still getting a pretty ugly record.
If China is joined by all Asians then yes. Are you disputing the US is joined by what is considered the West, and then some (Australia, New Zealand, Japan, South Korea, ...)?
I am saying there is no universal West with a universal position. If you look at European Western countries many have strongly condemned Israel. Australia is a lackey but they have made muffled criticism. South Korea and Japan are true lackeys.
Ireland has spoken out from the start. Italy, Spain and even France have criticised the Israelis more. The Nordic countries have spoken out. So there is no unified Western view.
I am saying there is no unity between every Western nation.
"strongly condemned Israel" "muffled criticism", "speaking out", etc, - these are empty words from politicians. It's deeds that matter. By their fruit we will know them.
Actually, you need to clarify what you mean by "westerners": people or governments that represent the majority of those people. I've assumed it's countries, that is politicians in charge of those countries. They direct what those countries actually do.
Well said, Roslyn! '...primitive, Biblical barbarism.' An excellent, concise summation of the very foundations of Israeli foreign policy. And it IS foreign policy as Israel IS an invader, both historically and currently. The wilful denial of this reality by Western states and their various mainstream media and politicians is what really sticks in the craw. Their cravenness in the face of Zionist pressure is staggering and, through this, the arrogant Israeli sense of entitlement is further encouraged.
This isn't conflation look up the history that's been obfuscated you can't find it if you're willing to face it we suck man we are the bad guy and it blows
While I totally agree with the points made in this article (and the many others over the past year), I wish to bring a few important details to our attention.
If I remember correctly, there was a historic Jewish population in Palestine going back centuries, and also in other countries in West Asia and North Africa. These groups in general got along well with their neighbors, whether Muslim or Christian or other religions. A favorite singer of mine, the late Frida Boccara, grew up in the Jewish district of Casablanca, for instance.
The colonization of Palestine by Europeans began in earnest in the 1930s, before the Nazi Holocaust. Many Palestinians were displaced or had their livelihoods taken from them, leading to the Palestinian Rebellions of 1936-39. Of course, it became much worse in the late 1940s.
Over the years, I have read articles and books by Israeli citizens who were doing their best to resolve this racist and repressive situation. These include Amira Hass and Steve Amsel. I also remember reading about a group of Israeli musicians that got together with a group of Palestinian musicians to play music and learn from each other's styles - this was maybe ten years ago.
So although I totally detest the savagery of many Israelis, I do support those who have not lost their own conscience and humanity.
Perhaps the ensemble to which you refer is the West-Eastern Divan Orchestra, co-established by Daniel Barenboim (Argentine-Israeli) and Edward Said (American-Palestinian)?
As to how much of this was learned directly from aping the Nazis and how much is basic human nature turned loose is left as an exercise for the reader.
I agree Mike Fish- the whole culture and the attitudes to the environment and other animals of the indigenous, first nation people, in the Pacific and the US was very, very different to the exploitation of 'resources' by the industrialised, extractive, growth at any cost, coloniser.
The populations of the Pacific islands and the US did not expand in the way that industrialisation subsequently allowed, they 'had' a lot of land. They also did not have a concept of land ownership, they were part of the land. Yes there were hierarchies and groups of family clans that passed on their own traditions, but I don't know that they 'othered' each other as we would understand it now.
How post industrialised people in non-western countries colonise is another matter.
She is some sort of white supremacist who goes around denying the genocides of the Americas and Australia. Yet she hates Israel and Jews for the genocide that is being committed as we speak (though it’s really the US that wants the genocide, at they can steal natural resources, and in the process, steal our tax money by giving it to weapon manufacturers). I don’t understand what her end goal is, if she even has one.
Resorting to abuse does not make a case. Which Turtle Island are you talking about? There are a few.
Provide sources proving your claim please. Some humans had a spiritual concept of land and earth and that includes Europeans in centuries past, but most also had a sense of ownership. The had to in order to survive. Nomadic stone-age hunter gatherers all had territories they defended to the death. Logic. They may not have evolved to buying and selling ownership but they certainly knew which land belonged to them.
" Israelis must be raised to see Palestinians as less than human. As less than animals. As less than vermin. They need to be hated with ferocious intensity."
It really sickens me to see how easy Americans have cottoned onto the concept that Palestinians are unworthy of compassion. It's like we've been preconditioned to hate others at a moment's notice whoever our "masters" tell us to in order to help them make more profits. It's always profits over people. We are dehumanized as we are taught to dehumanize others.
Yep and it takes years of 'education' and conditioning to teach a naturally compassionate child (as most of us are) that it's OK for other animals (though very closely related to us) to live their short lives being tortured on factory farms (as long as we can't see it) because this makes profits for our masters (industry's bottom line).
Although, as Caitlin points out, they are very likely to be targeted. If they are willing to risk their lives for the people of Palestine in Gaza, then they need all the support we can give them.
The Hind Rajab Foundation has filed a case with the ICC against 1,000 Israeli soldiers for war crimes in Gaza.
https://www.hindrajabfoundation.org/perpetrators/hind-rajab-foundation-files-historic-icc-complaint-against-1000-israeli-soldiers-for-war-crimes-in-gaza
I think they too could use our help. Please read the article and join me in making a contribution. https://buy.stripe.com/cN228hbY5g7jaM84gg
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In the US there is a very well known and recognized saying,
"Friends don't let friends drive drunk."
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A variation is pertinent and to the point as a succinct comeback to
someone arguing that we need to support Israel, "...but Israel is our Special ally."
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*** "Friends don't let friends commit Genocide." ***
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Dehumanisation is one of the tricks used by western propagandists. They are truly successful at their job, and have a Nazi-like skill in propaganda. Check out my article:
https://open.substack.com/pub/andrewsurman/p/the-nazi-like-skill-of-western-propaganda?r=2jrz7r&utm_medium=ios
I have (had) a friend who told me that Arabs hate Jews. I disagreed with her. I managed to get her thinking about it enough that she hired a Muslim Arab woman to look after her children and she really liked her. Then October 7 happened and I became a lover of Palestinians. I tried again to get her to see the situation differently, but she refuses to speak to me. This type of dehumanization happens a lot. Slavery happened in the US, but when I was travelling around Europe I noticed that there was a huge amount of racism in most of the cities I visited. I think that we people, not just westerners either, have some kind of need to be the "best" of everyone. We need to learn a different way of being. Somehow.
There has been a concerted campaign through mainstream media to brainwash people into fearing and hating Arabs in general and Muslims in particular. It has been slow and steady and more insidious because of that.
As to racism in European cities, it is worth bearing in mind that Europe has suffered more than most, as has the UK, from the millions of refugees created by American wars of hegemony. Combined with that has been the disaster that is multiculturalism where people are not encouraged to assimilate but to remain separate.
Too many European countries and the UK have seen too many refugees, too many migrants, too quickly and with Government policies which promote separation not assimilation. That is always a recipe for racism and it does not matter where it happens, Europe, India, Asia, Africa - except it is Europe which has copped most of the refugees.
Europeans are the original settler colonialists. America, Canada, Australia, New Zealand are all European settler colonies. The first “refugees” in Europe were the making of its own plunder of far away lands. And It is the descendants of the same Europeans who have continued the plunder as “Americans”. That refugees continue to pour into Europe today is mostly a result of geography and American “exceptionalism”.
Excellent point. Calling other western countries lackeys of the US minimizes the fact that these lackeys were going colonization and dehumanizing before the existence of the US.
The US could have been different. AND by the way we did not support multiple wars all over the planet!
If you want to ''blame" go ahead.
The whole point is that YOU (mainly) the US is deploying weapons in Israel because you are a Zionist state now.
I agree.
Now what is the UK doing?
Look it up.
They are transporting black immigrants to small islands in the Pacific.!!!!
Since history makes it very clear all humans have colonised I am not sure how you could prove your claim.
The Maoris colonised a lot of the Pacific, including Hawaii and New Zealand and violently so.
Australian aborigines were the descendants of many different waves of migration and colonisation.
The Mongols, Asians, had the biggest empire in all history. The Arabs, Ottomans, Turks invaded, occupied and colonised throughout the Middle East, India and Europe.
All humans started out in Africa, ergo, every country on earth is the result of settler colonialism or Africa would be very crowded. And study Africa, the history of tribes invading, occupying, colonising before the Europeans can be found. The difference is they killed most of those they colonised or kept and sold them as slaves.
Anglo-European settler colonialists are just better documented for English speakers but none of it was new.
I agree with your last sentence.
Roslyn Ross, You are very devious and deceptive. I cannot find any 'kinder' words to describe your motive. You pretend to be progressive and in the same breath distorts human evolution and transmigration - it was always thus, so why be critical of present day atrocities. This is another version of dehumanisation of the "other" which Caitlin writes about very eloquently here in her Newsletter.
What you are saying is why care about the present day Israeli war crimes, carnage and genocide, why go on about past colonisation, imperialism and slavery. It has all happened before!
>>"Roslyn Ross, You are very devious and deceptive."
🎯
Thank you Indu - I knew there was something wrong with this "Roslyn Ross" character and the way she presented her arguments. She comes off as some sort of "Western apologist" to me...
"What you are saying is why care about the present day Israeli war crimes" - how so? Care to point which lines one must read between to arrive at such conclusion?
Thanks for that history lesson. By that logic, the Nazi’s were just doing what history has always done. We should have just moved on. Why have we been constantly reminded of it for the last century? Why did we write laws and statutes to prevent their crimes from occurring again? Or did those laws have hidden fine print that we were never taught?
Good point.
The point is:!!!???
Britain has been complicit in all the US atrocities. They are owned by the same oligarchs.
This is true and what are the USA doing about this?
YOU America started wars as did the French/Spanish etcetera.
BUT you Americans with your money and complicit propaganda (also in the West) You started wars in S. America when you disliked new Govts. which were left. NOW you are complaining about immigration.
FUCK you all.
Americans are now coming to Europe in droves?
Why?
to be extremely honest, nobody gives any clue about jews - this is what i noticed. It's some of them who went by "I am jewish - I am special" - but usually we are too busy paying taxes, than thinking about "jews" lol
you are so right ! It is seldom that before and even now, I engage(d) into discussions about jewish. It is rather since Oct 7, that discussions focus on zionism linked to Gaza and the US but never about a specific religion. When living in Europe, it is quite natural to have either muslim or jewish friends. However, I find pple more discriminative abt social status rather than religion. We, as humans, hate or at least are suspicious about social differences, about poverty, about anything that is not like us! Hence, any minority living in our respective countries is perceived as a potential threat to our self centered lives. Not to speak about civilians from the middle eastern Muslim countries, they are for now, designated as the terrorists! You will seldomly hear about the largest muslim country that exists : Indonesia … nor hear about the very large muslim community of India … maybe in the future, when needed, will we hear new narratives. All is based on the agenda of government’s interests, reinforced by a man created narrative. Any fascist mindset knows that migration & religious racism, are the weak point on which to hammer the uneducated layers of population to reach to a consensus. I find we are pathetic and so uneducated with little to zero form of consciousness or wisdom. Sometimes I wonder who the subhumans are.
OH. Poor Americans and their taxes.
You don't understand how the other part of the world works.
We pay big taxes here in France (triple yours)? Why?
We want healthcare for all and education and homes for the elderly.
YOU are a selfish race of people.
The minute you have to pay more for petrol (gas) for your iniquitous trucks you vote for the other duopoly.
We pay for gas here in Europe triple your petty amount but we also have electric fast trains like most of the world.
Where are your FAST trains in the US?
The human chimp always wants someone to look down on. That is our number one motivation.
I disagree Jennifer, I think that children are naturally compassionate and sharing. We have to be taught to believe in 'mine' and 'people like me are better than people like you'. The epitome is the poor children born into this brutal regime and conditioned, like Pavlov's dogs, to hate and kill Palestinians on sight.
It's also finely honed to good (bad) use on social media where we're corralled into groups (left, right environmental, free speech) and taught to hate each other.
I wish I could be more optimistic about human nature, but I'm not. I got moved around a lot as a kid and there wasn't much natural compassion and sharing in evidence among the kids I encountered.
Optimistic we probably should be in terms of efforts to be vigilant and keep improving, but idealistic about human nature - not.
It baffles me how people - especially the militant atheist type - can on one hand dismiss the proper religions' assertions that humans are fallible and must be taught to take care of themselves and others, and on the other maintain that via evolution humans are animals.
Anyone who had kids or who could observe kids from someone in the family, can readily attest to the fact that children if left to their own devices will quickly behave like little animals. With no problems in the family otherwise, perfect parenting, no abuse, no nothing, yet they are like that, unless properly disciplined and kept in check.
Otherwise, why have parenting at all? Produce kids, put them in an environment where they are fed and cared for in terms of their physical needs, and leave them alone. The ideal human being problem solved.
That’s how anti-abortion people would have it. Force kids ti be born with no parenting at all.
Children are also naturally curious. I always wanted to know more about people who were "different" than me. I learned that they were scary from other people who were "the same" as me.
They are, then they become their parents. Also depends what age "kids." Teens are assholes, sociopaths
The average chimp you mean.Then there are the smaller but significant number that look up to raise the boats & the few devious ones that stab the rest in the back
👍👏
I’m finding most people really have difficulty facing the fact that the whole system is predicated on lies evil lies which means they took part in the system their parents took part in the system of oppression and horrific atrocities we are now confronted w/ live? Fear & denial are easier. Facing ones own demons is hard so the bslm of propaganda worjs like a charm.
You should check out the coexistence of the Arabs and Jews in Hebron in 1929, the women shared their breast milk / breasts with each other's babies then suddenly the Arabs turned after being agitated by the mufti who gave plans to Hitler to kill all of the jews, Francisco Gil white offers perspective
Susan T.
I watch your comments. I understand what you are saying BUT it means NOTHING with regard to the world.
MY best friend here (in France) is Moroccan.
We are OLD. She looks after us.
YOU talk about 'racism' in Europe and yet "having worked with 'Magrebines' in my Town the actuality is: That they have NO voice so what do they do?
They don't vote!
I am not sure what you are saying to me.
Why?
The people you say have no voice seem to me to be the objects of racist attitudes. I am not sure why what I say means nothing.
Slight correction - "dehumanization" is used for ALL genocides by all cultures (not just by the West alone).
Here's one example: The Hindutvas (a subset of Hindus) in India dehumanize Muslims in India in similar ways to how the Zionists dehumanize the Palestinians (though to a different scale and level).
All military creates a level of dehumanization of the enemy or humans could not kill.
My comment has NOTHING to do with the military. Your comment is off-topic. Are you just trolling here Roslyn Ross?
You said: "dehumanization" is used for ALL genocides by all cultures (not just by the West alone).
Military is a culture, ergo, I merely make the point that dehumanization to varying degrees is required in all armed services.
My use of "cultures" is in the context of "human cultures and societies" - not organizational cultures like "military, corporations", etc. Military is NOT a culture - military is an organizational system (which has its own culture) just like every organizational system has its own culture.
Roslyn Ross - based on previous discussions with you, I'm really not interested in ANY interactions with you. Please don't respond to my comments.
You do not get to dictate posts.
I realised that is what you meant but merely make the point, in order to train people to kill other humans, as the military does and it is a human culture and a society then a level of dehumanization is required.
You will find all military systems do the same thing to train humans to kill other humans.
I disavow this statement.
IF you think the Military is NOT a culture how is i that so many people join?
I agree.
What is interesting to me is that when these people get out of the Military..they are the people who argue against war.
All these ex-military on u-tube?
Listen and watch.
who is doing the killing if not the military?
Susan T, you, like everybody else, failed to realize the issue. Everyone knows that military indoctrinates a culture of "dehumanizing the enemy" in order to achieve its goals (this is not new information, it has been known for centuries).
The discussion is NOT about militaries or "who does the killing". It's about the the "dehumanization in society" - i.e. the dehumanization of Palestinians by "ordinary non-military Israelis", or the dehumanization of Muslims by Hindus in India, etc. Genocides happen BECAUSE there is a pervasive culture of dehumanization in the society at large (again - this has nothing to do with the military - that is a different aspect).
Do a study of Genocides in history. Without dehumanization of "others" it is impossible for a genocide to take place (regardless of if the military is involved or not).
Instead of telling everyone else how they don't know anything but you do, why don't you try listening and thinking a bit??
BUT we in the West ARE demonizing the Palestinians.
is military not part of the society chokaski? you seem to be asserting your whatever by twisting any argument in a way that would suit your self-perceived bigness. which actually indicates your smallness.
to repeat: is military not part of the society? "ordinary non-military israelies" - do they not do the killing via military means?
Tell me something Chang.
Could you go and fight in the Military?
No, I'm past the age - the military would not accept me - and neither would I enlist (I am anti-war).
Oh ho ho.
So you can come out with these comments because you are too old.
SCREW you.
DO you care about the kids?
truth but who cares in present tense ? WE ARE IN IT🤷♀️NOW.No history or abstraction? &Ukraine Myanmar, Congo, Haiti,Cuban sanctions... but we are supplying a Genocidal rabid lap dog TURNING the Middle East NOW,into a meat grinder for mostly children & those under 40 ? worsening daily the last 384 days over 10/7 a zionist/Us approved & created IDF Slaughter of their own? si its fucking different to me today at 65 ive had efuckinough.
and if you need one more then you can use Russia/Ukraine. wonder if you then tag yourself for the distraction.
Given the family connections between Ukrainians and Russians I doubt it applies.
Actually it's the same people. Which makes it even more devious and sinister when those in Kiev and Lvov dehumanize those in Donetsk/Lugansk and elsewhere in Russia.
Btw, some Israelis don't look white at all. The ones originally from the area, from places in Africa, etc. They're probably as close to Palestinians as can be. Which doesn't prevent dehumanization from taking place.
Yes they are the same people and as we know from studying civil wars through history, even the same people and family can be dehumanized. It is harder but it happens.
I was in a Hotel recently in Spain.
Met A Russian woman and her husband. Her mother is a Russian speaking Ukraine.
Ukraine has now 'outlawed' Russian speakers.
I am not sure blaming Western propagandists as any particular group really works when we know that Zionists, Israelis, Jews control mainstream media and a lot of other media and the corridors of Government power in the US and other countries. They are the ones who dispense the propaganda and one could hardly call them Western given their primitive, Biblical barbarism.
I do wonder if seeking to conflate everything Western with the evil that is Israel works in any effective way. Yes the US and its lackey allies have participated in this genocide but that does not make it a Western thing, just an American hegemonic thing and reflective of the power ZIJ has in the US.
Toss it all into the same pot and you are saying that the West is no different to Sickrael when most Western countries, thankfully, are nothing like the State of Hate.
“Yes the US and its lackey allies have participated in this genocide but that does not make it a Western thing, just an American hegemonic thing and reflective of the power ZIJ has in the US.”
What complete and utter bullshit. This is a genocide conducted by the United States of Genocide, for the United States of Genocide, with the support of all its imperial vassals.
We all should know WE(The West) created Israel to fein sympathy for Jews. We had a F load of Nazi support in Crapitolism pre war (look it up im from NJ i know) Russia defeats the Nazis at a 26 million human cost to them. We wont take the Jews in we make Palestinians do it. With that decision (F poor Palestine)We get THE strategic spot To 1 steal resourses, in MID EAST &2 watch over area, spy on Iran in particular,We position to awuire silk rd. Israell Our “Aircraft carrier” to control the “Others”. Then propagandized the Arabs & Russians as axcess of evil , monsters 24/7 rewrite history . While we hide or assimilate all the Nazi scientists & elites & act as though We hated all the atrocities we then profiteered off & we practiced everywhere to decimate everyone else. We did versions of what Israel is doing now, in Vietnam,Africa,S.America The numerous island nations we erased . Lets us not forget this America IT ALL STARTED HERE W/ indigenous genocide & slavery so...? Whos zoomin who?
The entire world allowed Israel to happen. I do not recall Asians, Indians, Africans protesting in the name of Palestine in 1947.
Without conceding the point, most of Asia (including India) and Africa were colonized in 1947. They had other, more immediate problems.
Fuck off with your pathetic buck-passing. This is not 1947, in case you hadn’t noticed.
Abuse reflects on you, not me. You want it all to be the fault of what you call the West and I merely point out, many non-Western nations are along for the ride and always have been.
I suppose you were watching all the uncensored international news in languages that you clearly understood & speak viewing events around the world sans United States propaganda?Lets say you had access to an all inclusive pov ? lucky you.How then did you come to your BY THE BOOK CIA TALKING POINTS BS?
Not sure what your point is.
Spot on Kathie Hopler!
You are assuming the US represents the Western world. It does not. It represents itself and nothing else. Its lackey allies comply for totally different reasons.
Bullshit. If the rest of the “western world” (a.k.a. United States of Genocide + vassals) were even vaguely opposed to the genocide, they would have imposed a total arms embargo on Israel six months ago, and prevented all shipments from passing through their territory. FFS, the UK is not only supplying arms for an active genocide, it is conducting intelligence flights on behalf of Israel every fucking day. Take your lying bullshit somewhere else please.
You misunderstand. I said, its lackey allies comply for totally different reasons. Usually those reasons are American bullying and blackmail at various levels. And no, I do not condone their genocidal cowardice, I merely make the point the US does not represent the West and there is no united Western world on this issue.
It is not so much that the vassals support genocide but that they support their continued survival far more.
The UK is glued at the hip to the US because it makes it feel it is still important when it is not. Living in the shadow of power creates the illusion of power.
Australia goes along with some mutterings because both major political parties believe that only the US would come and save Australia if needed. Sane Australians do not believe that but politics being what it is, there is less wriggle room.
As John Mearsheimer said, during a talk in Australia, the Australians have no choice but to do what the US wants. Sad but true. So we piffle and waffle and bleat a little and do what we can but yes, it is singular cowardice. Combined with that of course is the blackmail and bullying of the Zionists, Israelis and Jews.
If only nations were free, If only Governments had integrity.
It is the west that supports IT. The bombs blowing up children are supplied by the west. And now we have American ships and even troops protecting IT while war crimes are escalating. The west may as well help with the bombing.
The US supports it by providing the weapons. The lackey allies sometimes provide backup. Germany is of course fully on board carrying the shredded remains of the Jewish holocaust flag.
and they do and they will and your kids American kids will die so bra-fuckin'o. hope your cell phone's worth it. Fuck this denial. I feel like I'm surrounded by ostriches. so watch your tail feathers Russia China Iran & the rest of actual civilization are done w/ us. complicit people you're risk of getting us all cooked more like what the rest of the worlds daily risk has been for a century,is coming home to roost. not like you haven't been warned for the last 50+years. Greedy always loses ,may take a long time ,but in the end it always does ,and it's always ugly. im 66 next month so wtf do i care about you fools left bullshitting ea other? I care about the people that will get stuck going down with you. the ones who don't want any part of this greedy shit show. Fuck any of you complicit genocidal supporting motherfuckers good luck your repulsive.
Amen!
“Western” = Euro colonialist.
Same, same. Zionist is just a subset.
All humans have colonised. Nothing Western about it. At this point Indonesia colonises West Papua. They are certainly not Western.
Why are you so intent on this bullshit narrative? I can’t make heads or tails of what you are trying to accomplish…
"that does not make it a Western thing, just an American hegemonic thing" - well, since Americans will insist on calling themselves westerners, along with western Europe (which calls itself a beautiful garden or something) then by removing events involving Israel you're still getting a pretty ugly record.
If China does something do you believe all Asians are then accountable? I do not. The US does not represent the Western world, fortunately.
If China is joined by all Asians then yes. Are you disputing the US is joined by what is considered the West, and then some (Australia, New Zealand, Japan, South Korea, ...)?
I am saying there is no universal West with a universal position. If you look at European Western countries many have strongly condemned Israel. Australia is a lackey but they have made muffled criticism. South Korea and Japan are true lackeys.
Ireland has spoken out from the start. Italy, Spain and even France have criticised the Israelis more. The Nordic countries have spoken out. So there is no unified Western view.
I am saying there is no unity between every Western nation.
"strongly condemned Israel" "muffled criticism", "speaking out", etc, - these are empty words from politicians. It's deeds that matter. By their fruit we will know them.
Actually, you need to clarify what you mean by "westerners": people or governments that represent the majority of those people. I've assumed it's countries, that is politicians in charge of those countries. They direct what those countries actually do.
Well said, Roslyn! '...primitive, Biblical barbarism.' An excellent, concise summation of the very foundations of Israeli foreign policy. And it IS foreign policy as Israel IS an invader, both historically and currently. The wilful denial of this reality by Western states and their various mainstream media and politicians is what really sticks in the craw. Their cravenness in the face of Zionist pressure is staggering and, through this, the arrogant Israeli sense of entitlement is further encouraged.
And how much does India for example challenge Israel? It doesn't. It is a Zionist shill.
What about Mongolia? None of it is purely the West.
This isn't conflation look up the history that's been obfuscated you can't find it if you're willing to face it we suck man we are the bad guy and it blows
Jews control the mainstream media?
While I totally agree with the points made in this article (and the many others over the past year), I wish to bring a few important details to our attention.
If I remember correctly, there was a historic Jewish population in Palestine going back centuries, and also in other countries in West Asia and North Africa. These groups in general got along well with their neighbors, whether Muslim or Christian or other religions. A favorite singer of mine, the late Frida Boccara, grew up in the Jewish district of Casablanca, for instance.
The colonization of Palestine by Europeans began in earnest in the 1930s, before the Nazi Holocaust. Many Palestinians were displaced or had their livelihoods taken from them, leading to the Palestinian Rebellions of 1936-39. Of course, it became much worse in the late 1940s.
Over the years, I have read articles and books by Israeli citizens who were doing their best to resolve this racist and repressive situation. These include Amira Hass and Steve Amsel. I also remember reading about a group of Israeli musicians that got together with a group of Palestinian musicians to play music and learn from each other's styles - this was maybe ten years ago.
So although I totally detest the savagery of many Israelis, I do support those who have not lost their own conscience and humanity.
Perhaps the ensemble to which you refer is the West-Eastern Divan Orchestra, co-established by Daniel Barenboim (Argentine-Israeli) and Edward Said (American-Palestinian)?
As to how much of this was learned directly from aping the Nazis and how much is basic human nature turned loose is left as an exercise for the reader.
Since Nazis didn't really invent much I'm inclining towards the latter. Which also covers the former.
Americans were told that Native Americans were savages because they defended themselves from the white man taking their territory and their lives.
How many grew up playing cowboys and Indians?
I grew.up playing lions and tigers.
I was only there for the horses. The humans (red man/white man) and their issues held no interest for me.
The white man is in the process of eliminating all of the wild horses, as we speak.
:-(
No doubt as Indians taught their kids after taking someone else's hunting area. Ever thus.
I have doubts.
I guess it depends on how one defines hunting.
The colonizers killed a shit load of bison, but I don’t think of that mass killing of that group of mammals as hunting.
More like a tool of genocide by the whites.
Thus, not ever thus.
I see big differences between indigenous culture and colonizer’s culture.
Especially as it pertains to “hunting”.
I agree Mike Fish- the whole culture and the attitudes to the environment and other animals of the indigenous, first nation people, in the Pacific and the US was very, very different to the exploitation of 'resources' by the industrialised, extractive, growth at any cost, coloniser.
The populations of the Pacific islands and the US did not expand in the way that industrialisation subsequently allowed, they 'had' a lot of land. They also did not have a concept of land ownership, they were part of the land. Yes there were hierarchies and groups of family clans that passed on their own traditions, but I don't know that they 'othered' each other as we would understand it now.
How post industrialised people in non-western countries colonise is another matter.
Within their capacity of the times they did a lot of othering and violently so. They killed each other for land so they understood ownership.
How could the English divide the tribes against each other in the Americas? Because they already hated each other
This fantasy of the peaceful, noble, less developed people is delusion and racist.
You’re an idiot, or a blatant bullshitter.
The indigenous peoples of turtle island did NOT, and do NOT, believe in ownership of land.
So you pull this shit straight out of your asshole, or do you fish it out of the toilet???
You need a new screen name.
I would suggest “colonizer’s cuck”.
She is some sort of white supremacist who goes around denying the genocides of the Americas and Australia. Yet she hates Israel and Jews for the genocide that is being committed as we speak (though it’s really the US that wants the genocide, at they can steal natural resources, and in the process, steal our tax money by giving it to weapon manufacturers). I don’t understand what her end goal is, if she even has one.
Resorting to abuse does not make a case. Which Turtle Island are you talking about? There are a few.
Provide sources proving your claim please. Some humans had a spiritual concept of land and earth and that includes Europeans in centuries past, but most also had a sense of ownership. The had to in order to survive. Nomadic stone-age hunter gatherers all had territories they defended to the death. Logic. They may not have evolved to buying and selling ownership but they certainly knew which land belonged to them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crow_Creek_massacre
Plenty of massacre claims and many proven. Does not prove a policy. Wiki is a poor source for anything controversial
I’ve/we’ve been with the wild horses, when they were runnin’.
Beautiful to behold.
A memory that endures forever.
Like bison and bears.
" Israelis must be raised to see Palestinians as less than human. As less than animals. As less than vermin. They need to be hated with ferocious intensity."
It really sickens me to see how easy Americans have cottoned onto the concept that Palestinians are unworthy of compassion. It's like we've been preconditioned to hate others at a moment's notice whoever our "masters" tell us to in order to help them make more profits. It's always profits over people. We are dehumanized as we are taught to dehumanize others.
Yup. Russia gate got shitlibs to despise not only Putin, but the Russian people too.
Today daily kos celebrated the Nazis being exchanged for Russian prisoners.
And look at how many times they have welcomed the Azov to American streets.
Yep and it takes years of 'education' and conditioning to teach a naturally compassionate child (as most of us are) that it's OK for other animals (though very closely related to us) to live their short lives being tortured on factory farms (as long as we can't see it) because this makes profits for our masters (industry's bottom line).
AFAICT, children don't need much teaching to be hateful.
Absolutely not true, unless you beat them.
You must know very different children than I do.
We can all support the brave doctors who have gone to Gaza: https://palestinian-ama.networkforgood.com/projects/206145-gaza-medical-supplies-oct-2023
Or
Surgeons to Gaza
https://fajr.org/donate/
Although, as Caitlin points out, they are very likely to be targeted. If they are willing to risk their lives for the people of Palestine in Gaza, then they need all the support we can give them.
It’s a big bowl of dehumanizing shit that we are living in. This type of actions by Israel, US, UK, etc. shouldn’t survive.