Most of what Dore does consists of taking quotes and past actions of the liberal class and casting it against their current words and deeds (or lack thereof). Naturally, shitlibs and faux warriors like AOC the Squad hate this.
Hypocrisy is a vein that comedians have mined for centuries, and it's actually what our evening news should be doing -- minus the dick jokes, of course.
Dore comes off like a gruff jagoff of the Chicago variety but he's obviously done some inner work and displays a marvelous degree of self depreciation.
The corporate press in this country have gone from worthless to dangerous, yelling the loudest for censorship and largely ideologically aligned with the DNC. With Dore gaining more viewership than most cable news shows, attempts to demonize him become more understandable.
Jimmy Dore is the first to admit that he IS a jagoff from Chicago.
In addition to the actions you described, he shows actual clips of the statements that he is refuting. That's why so many people, right and left, love his take on today's events.
Isn't it interesting that Jimmy Dore has become the icon of the "true left" -- whatever that is suppose to mean. I am sure it is a position he never wanted to attain, but he did it just by staying true to his values; standing strong in the face of slurs made against him; and being proactive when faced when threats to smear him as a sexual predator were made against him.
Joe Biden is the one who murdered #BelieveWomen and #MeToo.
The TYT network is financed by the Oligarchy.
Jimmy Dore (like Aaron Mate, Matt Taibbi, Michael Tracy, Peter B. Collins, Caitlin and others) is financed by you and me.
When the Squad (and the rest of the so-called progressives) finally stops faking opposition and fails to pass the $3.5T reconciliation bill while assisting the Oligarchy in stealing America's wealth through the so-called "bipartisan bill", I trust Jimmy Dore to be the one who will most clearly explain that betrayal to me.
We are the ones still trying to practice our principles, like ending wars and having a decent distribution of the wealth that we all create, unlike the Congressional "progressives," who abandoned theirs (if they ever truly had any) and capitulated to the wealth and power they encountered in the halls of Congress.
Moreover, we still believe in being "liberal" as the dictionary defines it, and we oppose the neoliberals, who believe in austerity (starvation wages and support) for the people while orchestrating the biggest upward transfer of wealth in history.
I've been on the far left since 1968 and I'm still there.
Actually no. Sure the list of policies is good but lots of pols have that list on their web site. I supported plenty of them in the past. Not anymore though. They make noises but never follow through.
Then one of two things are happening. Either they are marketing themselves as liberals to get votes and aren't, or their beliefs are sincere but they are totally ineffectual. In either case they have no place representing us in government.
Don't know about Taibbi, but I have my doubts about Mate, who is a regular on both Dore's YouTube and live shows. I just don't see Mate as friendly with the current crop of dems; he knows too much.
Other podcasts than Cenk's also originate from there studio. Jimmy says they were financed by some Oligarch for millions of dollars. I think Kyle is part of it.
First of all, as an Italian-American, they should all be smacked for butchering and spoofing Matt Orfalea's name. It reveals them as lightweight intellects.
Second, I'd suggest locking Konst, Seder, Vigeland et al., entitled crybabies all, in a room and forcing them to watch endless George Carlin videos. Perhaps they can be shamed into reality by a comedian with a better command of the language than any of these mediocre con artists —and a better grasp of the real pile of shit this country has become than any of their sorry half-witted asses. I despise these people almost as much as I do the con artists in the democratic party.
Dore is high-strung, temperamental, sometimes condescending, and can rub people the wrong way. He's also 100% authentic, a sharp critical thinker, and one of our few truth-tellers. We need thousands of Dores in order to break the US left out of its controlled-opposition slumber, while relegating all the Konsts, Seders and Vigelands to the ash-heap of political conversation. And his fans KNOW this apocalyptic tweet is going to turn up on his show soon . . . his best content tends to be contributed by those immersed in the sewage of shitlibbery!
Speaking of Jimmy Dore taking up oxygen in Nomiki's mind, as someone with a grand total of 18 followers, she blocked me on Twitter. I have never interacted with her or left comments on her threads, I don't follower her or even think about her. The only reason I think she went out of her way to banish some Twitter troll is because I like Jimmy Dore.
They're freaking out because Dore isn't flattering them and aiming vicious snark at the opposition, like SNL, late night hosts and hollywood generally does. Instead, he's calling them out, and doing it with verve and humor. Comedians used to occasionally do that. Remember George Carlin mocking America's warmongering spirit at the time of Gulf War I, ("playing with our toys in the sand"), and getting booed on his own stage.
Liberals are used to owning the talent, and the message -- especially when it comes to comedy. It became their safe space. They sneer whenever the right tries to put up any cultural opposition, with their shitty comedians and weird end-times movies and books. Someone with Dore's talent aiming his daggers at them? That's something they haven't had to deal with.
But I'd go further in giving Dore some credit as a part of the political conversation. His "Stop the Vote" advocacy was well timed, well aimed and well conceived. He attracts some very effective guests and allies (Greenwald, Mate and Rogan among them). I'd say the shitlibs should be worried about Dore.
Dore's direct challenges to the notion that there are vast differences between the two corporate parties is what painted a target on his back. People that fall for vilifying him either have a weak analysis or are being disingenuous. Either way, I ignore them.
The cartoon a good cartoonist could draw is a top-hatted corporation smiling with self-satisfaction at all the political groups' in-fighting and division; left against left, right against right, antivaxxer lefties against provaxxer lefties, covid and climate denying righties vs science believing righties, etc., ad infinitum.
The division serves only one group, the owners.
If they can keep everyone distracted by the smoke and mirrors people won't realize they have been murdered.
Well, Cait has her comments box up again, maybe for awhile this time, so I will do a comment. One thing about her, she gets into topics that are actually worth commenting about.
I am concerned with the last two paragraphs in this article. That is, about how any “left” movement always seems distracted; disrupted from outside by obvious secret police operations, and from within by all the mentally unstable nutcases whom people do not think they have the right to tell to shut up and get lost.
I am going to write much more fulsomely about this sometime soon. There is so much to write about now, I have limited energy and I have a lot of other stuff going on in my life at the moment. My thesis will be that all this problem with left movements is from the lack of a plot. People have no idea what they are trying to accomplish.
This is ultimately a problem with the revolutionary left, going back to the old time Marxists. They are totally focussed on overthrowing capitalism, but do not know what they are going to replace it with. This is the big error of Marxism; we just eliminate capitalism and we’ll wing it from there.
No, you have to have fully worked out what you are going to put in place of the old order. When you have this straight you will understand how to actually overthrow capitalism, permanently. I believe that most of the internal and external disruption will also disappear. Police infiltrators will immediately ‘out’ themselves and look ridiculous.
What is exciting about these times is that the ideas for a post capitalist world are now there. It just needs some people to put it together into a coherent program. This was what was missing back in the 1970s; will people grasp it now?
This is what interests me and repels me about Cait. She is like the 1970s over again. All that has to happen is that everybody becomes all beautiful and spiritual and mindful and so on, and everything will happen magically. It didn’t work.
People soon get tired of things that do not go anywhere. The forces of darkness regrouped and got part of the ‘flower powers’ to buy into neoliberalism. And so we got the 1980s and all that followed.
If AOC and the squad had demanded something before voting for Pelosi, had followed Jimmy's lead, we'd have move forward.
I am pretty discouraged by those who think the problem is only capitalism. They never talk about Milton Friedman or James Buchanan. They're caught up in a theory that can only be implemented via a revolution, that will probably be violent. They only sometimes talk about the Billionaires, and only a few of them. Few have watched Jimmy Dore's Covid Money Talks with Dylan Ratigan as they outlined the complete sellout by every Senator and Congressman.
Where's the third party that we need to organize around? Who are the leaders we need?
Capitalism is violence, very necessary violence. Capitalism with it’s appeal too animal spirit and the power if it’s creative destruction keeps us humans honest and we need it because we are endlessly duplicitous scoundrels. Win or die state of nature is needed and yes it is violent. It’s violent on the small scale though, it’s not revolution as our left-wing friends always advocate - tear the whole thing down - history speaks volumes about that solution.
It wasn't the people of the left ("flower powers") who brought about the 1980s; it was a concerted successful backlash by the RNC. I wish I could find the film that I saw with a Republican operative who described how he developed his campaign to overthrow the advances of the 1970s.
Wow! Some replies to my comment about Caitlin which are less that completely idiotic. Even worth responding to. I do not do this much so I am not sure how to aggregate a reply so that all of them receive it.
All three failed to fully get the point I was making. Yes, the 80s was about an organized counterrevolution from the neoliberals. This was possible because the flower powers of the 1970’s never had any real ideas.
There was a question that went around constantly during those times. “You keep saying what you are against, but never what you are for”. The left never seems to be able to answer that question.
Caitlin cannot answer it either. She is, as said, a very good commentator. She has the diagnosis but not the prescription.
Some people seem to thing the prescription calls for a violent revolution. That may be a requirement but it is more complicated than that. To repeat again, to replace capitalism you must have the post capitalist world figured out. When you have that, it will tell you how to go about removing capitalism.
Someone in the comments box thundered that all this requires leaders. He is thinking about a third party for the US. In Canada we have had a third party for awhile. It has not gone anywhere. Now we have a fourth party which is not helping itself much.
Parties and elections will of course get us nowhere. What we need is a revolutionary movement and that is not around for the simple reason that the revolution is not ready to happen yet. If there is anything the Real Marxists have learned in a couple of centuries it is to stay out of sight until then. That is probably why we do not see them.
In fact, most of the noise we hear on all public platforms is not what real people are thinking. This is the people with mental problems who are being stirred up and mobilized into street armies and cyber armies to serve the agendas of rival factions of the ruling classes. Normal people are repelled by the whole thing and stand aside, but watch and wait.
By the way, another big drawback of political commentary these days is that everyone sees just one monolithic ruling elite. To understand it right you have to be aware of the competing factions in the oligarchy. This is how democratic revolutions have usually happened, from the Athenians to the Florentines; the conflicts within the oligarchy become so destructive that there is no choice but to give power to those who have a stake in the whole, not just in their factional interests; the ordinary people.
So there is a lot to talk about besides just; everybody become “aware”. Subscribe to my half baked version of Buddhism and try to act like you do not have a self. Eat some magic mushrooms. But also, worry about them taking away ‘civil rights’ you never had anyway.
What I want to do on the net is to try to develop a clear understanding of post capitalism. I am not sure just how to go about it. I am starting do do some fictional writing to envision life in a system of real socialism, real democracy, and real planning.
You can find most of my recent stuff at my more recent blog at https://yaxls.wordpress.com/ or at substack. (Tim Rourke) I might even get Cait and followers to start thinking more in that direction. Wouldn’t that be great!
I never could answer the accusation that "you know what you are against, but what are you FOR?" because anyone who asked that question wouldn't understand my answer if I told them.
1) Those people could never tell the various parts of the counter-culture apart. You mixed up hippies with the student activists. We were different.
2) Hippies lived the LIFE that showed what we were for. If you weren't so attached to what the mainstream media told you about us ("It's sex, drugs, and rock'n'roll"), you would have known that that was a deliberate, successful attempt to marginalize and demonize us.
3) The way it was phrased was a cowardly attack, concealed as a "question," and I don't like to respond to my enemies at all. I stopped engaging in shouting matches at that time, and any engagement would have led to more accusations and a shouting match.
4) You see what you want to see and hear what you want to hear. If you had ever asked a true question about what we believed, in a humble way, we would have been glad to have told you.
5) We were FOR a lot of things, many of which have worked their way into the mainstream culture. "He who laughs last laughs the best."
I am still getting some comments from the Cait blog comments box about my theories on post capitalism. I am going to have to cut this off pretty soon but I think I have some material here that could be worked into a nice blog article. I have been planning something for awhile on the topic.
One commentator on my commentating is also from Toronto. He concluded by telling me he thinks Ontario Premier Bucket Head Doug is “the right guy” for the province. I bet he lives in Etobicoke south.
I discovered I have been corresponding with an aging Hippie chick from the 1970s. She remembers the “yeah, but what are you for?” line. She found it dishonest and did not answer because she thought such people would not understand the answer anyway.
Yes, it is basically a dishonest riff. That is why it was such a good opportunity to counterpunch. The key is, you have to really know what you are for. Then you launch the fifteen minute pitch, leaving them without much to answer back.
That question also worked pretty well in the 1980s against the Miltie Friedman types. But it was most effective when followed up with “And where has that ever actually worked?” Ah, the good old days.
Yes, the hippies were different from the student activists. I was never part of either. The “sex, drugs, rock n’ roll always happened somewhere I wasn’t. Some people just practiced their alternate lifestyle and parts of it did become the norm in society for subsequent generations.
What annoyed me was the people who made a display about their counterculture style, like it made them morally superior. I bet their kids are the “woke” types of today.
But in this thread, I am more concerned about the student radical types, especially the “flower powers”. They struck me as being mostly about some anarchist vision of society; tearing down most government institutions. I did not trust them at all.
But I repeat that my problem was and is that they had no real ideas about what they wanted. They assumed everything was going to keep getting better on its own. The right wing reaction of the 1980s just moved into a vacuum.
Between then and now, you still have the same types of bubble heads. The first difference is that instead of unrealistic optimism, they are hung up in unrealistic pessimism. But the most important difference is that this time we have people with a clear idea of what they want as a replacement to the current arrangements.
These people understand that it is not going to happen by itself. It will not happen by everyone throwing out “peace and love” vibes. Also, there is no point in waking people up if you have nothing to show them; after awhile they just go back to sleep. Right, Cait?
One commentator on this thread criticized Cait as seeming unaware that whatever change she seems to be advocating will only come about from a revolution which is likely to be violent. By golly, it does seem that way, doesn’t it? Corrupt oligarchies usually do not go away without a fight.
Corrupt oligarchies are never as formidable as they appear. They fall regularly. Then the question is; are the leaders of the resistance surprised at their own success? Do they have a clue what to do next? When they only know what they are against, and not what they are for, what they are trying to do, oligarchies tend to regroup and come back.
But there is the point I started out trying to make. You will never end capitalism until you have post capitalism figured out. I have spent enough time on this thread. I have compost to haul around today.
Sometime soon, I will use this discussion as a base for another brilliant blog post.
I share your opinion, our leader Caitlin has a strong diagnosis and she’s a pleasure to read but her prescription is nowhere: kevetching plus wishful thinking. She’s a commentator and a bloody good one, honest, but not in the world or a product of the world she sits on the sidelines pontificating.
I find the entire left devoid of solutions, left liberalism has become a cul-de-sac, it is exhausted. I think they know they have failed (as you say) hence their impatience- the successor ideology of Wes Yang - and this illiberal moment.
your description suggests that the effect of plurality voting and consequent 2-party duopoly on reporting (and consequently on the collective minditself) is even more powerful than described here: https://rangevoting.org/MediaLapdogs.html
I don't think Prof. Smith himself really appreciated the extent to which people like Seder become obsessed with *actively* enforcing party orthodoxy. Clearly it goes well beyond a focus on
An honest, non-ironic question, I’ve never seen Jimmy Dore.
I take it he is liberal, but, a heretic who refuses to stay on script and makes his livelihood mocking the hypocrisies which staying on script necessitate. Basically Fox News from the left - I suppose that makes it sting more, one of their own tattletaling. That’s what Trump rally‘s were, trump outing the elite, a one hour diatribe on the hypocrites, mocking them.
Haiku - new word for me - Japanese poem, I bet that shit is boring, like kabuki theatre. Japanese do some really boring stuff.
Your question confused me regarding your term "too left" when describing Nomiki, as my take is that her fault is in not being left enough. Your characterizing Jimmy as Fox News from the left is also troubling, as I would say this applies more accurately to outfits like MSNBC and individuals personified my the noxious and overpaid Rachel Maddow.
Besides giving haiku a chance, I'd invite you to do likewise with Jimmy Dore. As far as I know he advocates for decency for a majority of people and calls out the BS of the left and the right, much like Caitlin. And where else, besides Tucker Carlson, can you hear Glenn Greenwald's take on things?
He's NOT a liberal, which has become an insult on the left. He's far to the left of liberals, who are now Centrists.
And haiku is cleverly arranged so that you should be able to determine what season of the year and time of day it was written. It's very subtle, but subtlety isn't understood by some people.
It's a form of poetry originating in Japan composed of three lines of 5 syllables, 7 syllables, and 5 again. It commonly deals in themes of nature but modern poets have embraced countless other themes. The tight structure and short length make for a an enjoyable yet attainable challenge.
Most of what Dore does consists of taking quotes and past actions of the liberal class and casting it against their current words and deeds (or lack thereof). Naturally, shitlibs and faux warriors like AOC the Squad hate this.
Hypocrisy is a vein that comedians have mined for centuries, and it's actually what our evening news should be doing -- minus the dick jokes, of course.
Dore comes off like a gruff jagoff of the Chicago variety but he's obviously done some inner work and displays a marvelous degree of self depreciation.
The corporate press in this country have gone from worthless to dangerous, yelling the loudest for censorship and largely ideologically aligned with the DNC. With Dore gaining more viewership than most cable news shows, attempts to demonize him become more understandable.
Jimmy Dore is the first to admit that he IS a jagoff from Chicago.
In addition to the actions you described, he shows actual clips of the statements that he is refuting. That's why so many people, right and left, love his take on today's events.
I think spell correct changed deprecation into depreciation at the end of your second paragraph.
I love blaming spell check for my occasional inherent ignorance, but actually I think I meant to say that. LOL
self-de·pre·ci·a·tion (sĕlf′dĭ-prē′shē-ā′shən)
n. Disparagement or undervaluation of oneself and one's abilities.
I admire your reading my posts so thoughtfully, but I do detest the inability to make corrections after posting. It makes me feel depreciated.
I love language. Our leader Caitlin is an accomplished word smith (yer pretty darn good too).
I grew up with Mark Twain, George Carlin, and the Firesign Theater, so words were always my companion. Still are, hopefully...
Isn't it interesting that Jimmy Dore has become the icon of the "true left" -- whatever that is suppose to mean. I am sure it is a position he never wanted to attain, but he did it just by staying true to his values; standing strong in the face of slurs made against him; and being proactive when faced when threats to smear him as a sexual predator were made against him.
Joe Biden is the one who murdered #BelieveWomen and #MeToo.
The TYT network is financed by the Oligarchy.
Jimmy Dore (like Aaron Mate, Matt Taibbi, Michael Tracy, Peter B. Collins, Caitlin and others) is financed by you and me.
When the Squad (and the rest of the so-called progressives) finally stops faking opposition and fails to pass the $3.5T reconciliation bill while assisting the Oligarchy in stealing America's wealth through the so-called "bipartisan bill", I trust Jimmy Dore to be the one who will most clearly explain that betrayal to me.
Shall I explain what the "true left" means to me?
We are the ones still trying to practice our principles, like ending wars and having a decent distribution of the wealth that we all create, unlike the Congressional "progressives," who abandoned theirs (if they ever truly had any) and capitulated to the wealth and power they encountered in the halls of Congress.
Moreover, we still believe in being "liberal" as the dictionary defines it, and we oppose the neoliberals, who believe in austerity (starvation wages and support) for the people while orchestrating the biggest upward transfer of wealth in history.
I've been on the far left since 1968 and I'm still there.
Does this clear it up for you?
Actually no. Sure the list of policies is good but lots of pols have that list on their web site. I supported plenty of them in the past. Not anymore though. They make noises but never follow through.
Then one of two things are happening. Either they are marketing themselves as liberals to get votes and aren't, or their beliefs are sincere but they are totally ineffectual. In either case they have no place representing us in government.
I would bet that Mate and Taibbi voted for Biden, which would upset Jimmy Dore. I don't know about Tracy and Collins.
Don't know about Taibbi, but I have my doubts about Mate, who is a regular on both Dore's YouTube and live shows. I just don't see Mate as friendly with the current crop of dems; he knows too much.
What’s the TYT network?
The Young Turks. I believe Dore actually worked there and then it took a wrong turn and now attacks him and Aaron Mate among others.
Other podcasts than Cenk's also originate from there studio. Jimmy says they were financed by some Oligarch for millions of dollars. I think Kyle is part of it.
Thanks
First of all, as an Italian-American, they should all be smacked for butchering and spoofing Matt Orfalea's name. It reveals them as lightweight intellects.
Second, I'd suggest locking Konst, Seder, Vigeland et al., entitled crybabies all, in a room and forcing them to watch endless George Carlin videos. Perhaps they can be shamed into reality by a comedian with a better command of the language than any of these mediocre con artists —and a better grasp of the real pile of shit this country has become than any of their sorry half-witted asses. I despise these people almost as much as I do the con artists in the democratic party.
Dore is high-strung, temperamental, sometimes condescending, and can rub people the wrong way. He's also 100% authentic, a sharp critical thinker, and one of our few truth-tellers. We need thousands of Dores in order to break the US left out of its controlled-opposition slumber, while relegating all the Konsts, Seders and Vigelands to the ash-heap of political conversation. And his fans KNOW this apocalyptic tweet is going to turn up on his show soon . . . his best content tends to be contributed by those immersed in the sewage of shitlibbery!
Speaking of Jimmy Dore taking up oxygen in Nomiki's mind, as someone with a grand total of 18 followers, she blocked me on Twitter. I have never interacted with her or left comments on her threads, I don't follower her or even think about her. The only reason I think she went out of her way to banish some Twitter troll is because I like Jimmy Dore.
OK, Team D controls the presidency and both houses of Congress.
Obviously, a YouTube comedian is responsible for the fact that we are not in Fully Automated Luxury Progressivism by now.
They're freaking out because Dore isn't flattering them and aiming vicious snark at the opposition, like SNL, late night hosts and hollywood generally does. Instead, he's calling them out, and doing it with verve and humor. Comedians used to occasionally do that. Remember George Carlin mocking America's warmongering spirit at the time of Gulf War I, ("playing with our toys in the sand"), and getting booed on his own stage.
Liberals are used to owning the talent, and the message -- especially when it comes to comedy. It became their safe space. They sneer whenever the right tries to put up any cultural opposition, with their shitty comedians and weird end-times movies and books. Someone with Dore's talent aiming his daggers at them? That's something they haven't had to deal with.
But I'd go further in giving Dore some credit as a part of the political conversation. His "Stop the Vote" advocacy was well timed, well aimed and well conceived. He attracts some very effective guests and allies (Greenwald, Mate and Rogan among them). I'd say the shitlibs should be worried about Dore.
Nomiki is a lost soul pretending to be a progressive. She is a Clinton Democrat pretending to be a Sanders Democrat.
Dore's direct challenges to the notion that there are vast differences between the two corporate parties is what painted a target on his back. People that fall for vilifying him either have a weak analysis or are being disingenuous. Either way, I ignore them.
The cartoon a good cartoonist could draw is a top-hatted corporation smiling with self-satisfaction at all the political groups' in-fighting and division; left against left, right against right, antivaxxer lefties against provaxxer lefties, covid and climate denying righties vs science believing righties, etc., ad infinitum.
The division serves only one group, the owners.
If they can keep everyone distracted by the smoke and mirrors people won't realize they have been murdered.
And yes, we're going extinct. Soon.
That's the real story no one wants to talk about.
First time I heard of Konst WAS WHEN SHE WAS A GUEST ON JIMMY DORE! LOL
She's just being click baity as far as I'm concerned.
Well, Cait has her comments box up again, maybe for awhile this time, so I will do a comment. One thing about her, she gets into topics that are actually worth commenting about.
I am concerned with the last two paragraphs in this article. That is, about how any “left” movement always seems distracted; disrupted from outside by obvious secret police operations, and from within by all the mentally unstable nutcases whom people do not think they have the right to tell to shut up and get lost.
I am going to write much more fulsomely about this sometime soon. There is so much to write about now, I have limited energy and I have a lot of other stuff going on in my life at the moment. My thesis will be that all this problem with left movements is from the lack of a plot. People have no idea what they are trying to accomplish.
This is ultimately a problem with the revolutionary left, going back to the old time Marxists. They are totally focussed on overthrowing capitalism, but do not know what they are going to replace it with. This is the big error of Marxism; we just eliminate capitalism and we’ll wing it from there.
No, you have to have fully worked out what you are going to put in place of the old order. When you have this straight you will understand how to actually overthrow capitalism, permanently. I believe that most of the internal and external disruption will also disappear. Police infiltrators will immediately ‘out’ themselves and look ridiculous.
What is exciting about these times is that the ideas for a post capitalist world are now there. It just needs some people to put it together into a coherent program. This was what was missing back in the 1970s; will people grasp it now?
This is what interests me and repels me about Cait. She is like the 1970s over again. All that has to happen is that everybody becomes all beautiful and spiritual and mindful and so on, and everything will happen magically. It didn’t work.
People soon get tired of things that do not go anywhere. The forces of darkness regrouped and got part of the ‘flower powers’ to buy into neoliberalism. And so we got the 1980s and all that followed.
Enough said. tr
Tax the rich.
Don't vote Red
Don't vote Blue
Vote for the "Tax the Rich" party.
If AOC and the squad had demanded something before voting for Pelosi, had followed Jimmy's lead, we'd have move forward.
I am pretty discouraged by those who think the problem is only capitalism. They never talk about Milton Friedman or James Buchanan. They're caught up in a theory that can only be implemented via a revolution, that will probably be violent. They only sometimes talk about the Billionaires, and only a few of them. Few have watched Jimmy Dore's Covid Money Talks with Dylan Ratigan as they outlined the complete sellout by every Senator and Congressman.
Where's the third party that we need to organize around? Who are the leaders we need?
I don't see anyone.
Capitalism is violence, very necessary violence. Capitalism with it’s appeal too animal spirit and the power if it’s creative destruction keeps us humans honest and we need it because we are endlessly duplicitous scoundrels. Win or die state of nature is needed and yes it is violent. It’s violent on the small scale though, it’s not revolution as our left-wing friends always advocate - tear the whole thing down - history speaks volumes about that solution.
I deplore those who call for a "leader" to tell them what to do. It's lazy and cowardly.
And we can bring about a revolution that isn't violent, at least on our side.
Watch How to Start a Revolution DVD documentary (I've heard it's back on YouTube) and read From Dictatorship to Democracy the book.
It wasn't the people of the left ("flower powers") who brought about the 1980s; it was a concerted successful backlash by the RNC. I wish I could find the film that I saw with a Republican operative who described how he developed his campaign to overthrow the advances of the 1970s.
Wow! Some replies to my comment about Caitlin which are less that completely idiotic. Even worth responding to. I do not do this much so I am not sure how to aggregate a reply so that all of them receive it.
All three failed to fully get the point I was making. Yes, the 80s was about an organized counterrevolution from the neoliberals. This was possible because the flower powers of the 1970’s never had any real ideas.
There was a question that went around constantly during those times. “You keep saying what you are against, but never what you are for”. The left never seems to be able to answer that question.
Caitlin cannot answer it either. She is, as said, a very good commentator. She has the diagnosis but not the prescription.
Some people seem to thing the prescription calls for a violent revolution. That may be a requirement but it is more complicated than that. To repeat again, to replace capitalism you must have the post capitalist world figured out. When you have that, it will tell you how to go about removing capitalism.
Someone in the comments box thundered that all this requires leaders. He is thinking about a third party for the US. In Canada we have had a third party for awhile. It has not gone anywhere. Now we have a fourth party which is not helping itself much.
Parties and elections will of course get us nowhere. What we need is a revolutionary movement and that is not around for the simple reason that the revolution is not ready to happen yet. If there is anything the Real Marxists have learned in a couple of centuries it is to stay out of sight until then. That is probably why we do not see them.
In fact, most of the noise we hear on all public platforms is not what real people are thinking. This is the people with mental problems who are being stirred up and mobilized into street armies and cyber armies to serve the agendas of rival factions of the ruling classes. Normal people are repelled by the whole thing and stand aside, but watch and wait.
By the way, another big drawback of political commentary these days is that everyone sees just one monolithic ruling elite. To understand it right you have to be aware of the competing factions in the oligarchy. This is how democratic revolutions have usually happened, from the Athenians to the Florentines; the conflicts within the oligarchy become so destructive that there is no choice but to give power to those who have a stake in the whole, not just in their factional interests; the ordinary people.
So there is a lot to talk about besides just; everybody become “aware”. Subscribe to my half baked version of Buddhism and try to act like you do not have a self. Eat some magic mushrooms. But also, worry about them taking away ‘civil rights’ you never had anyway.
What I want to do on the net is to try to develop a clear understanding of post capitalism. I am not sure just how to go about it. I am starting do do some fictional writing to envision life in a system of real socialism, real democracy, and real planning.
You can find most of my recent stuff at my more recent blog at https://yaxls.wordpress.com/ or at substack. (Tim Rourke) I might even get Cait and followers to start thinking more in that direction. Wouldn’t that be great!
I never could answer the accusation that "you know what you are against, but what are you FOR?" because anyone who asked that question wouldn't understand my answer if I told them.
1) Those people could never tell the various parts of the counter-culture apart. You mixed up hippies with the student activists. We were different.
2) Hippies lived the LIFE that showed what we were for. If you weren't so attached to what the mainstream media told you about us ("It's sex, drugs, and rock'n'roll"), you would have known that that was a deliberate, successful attempt to marginalize and demonize us.
3) The way it was phrased was a cowardly attack, concealed as a "question," and I don't like to respond to my enemies at all. I stopped engaging in shouting matches at that time, and any engagement would have led to more accusations and a shouting match.
4) You see what you want to see and hear what you want to hear. If you had ever asked a true question about what we believed, in a humble way, we would have been glad to have told you.
5) We were FOR a lot of things, many of which have worked their way into the mainstream culture. "He who laughs last laughs the best."
I am still getting some comments from the Cait blog comments box about my theories on post capitalism. I am going to have to cut this off pretty soon but I think I have some material here that could be worked into a nice blog article. I have been planning something for awhile on the topic.
One commentator on my commentating is also from Toronto. He concluded by telling me he thinks Ontario Premier Bucket Head Doug is “the right guy” for the province. I bet he lives in Etobicoke south.
I discovered I have been corresponding with an aging Hippie chick from the 1970s. She remembers the “yeah, but what are you for?” line. She found it dishonest and did not answer because she thought such people would not understand the answer anyway.
Yes, it is basically a dishonest riff. That is why it was such a good opportunity to counterpunch. The key is, you have to really know what you are for. Then you launch the fifteen minute pitch, leaving them without much to answer back.
That question also worked pretty well in the 1980s against the Miltie Friedman types. But it was most effective when followed up with “And where has that ever actually worked?” Ah, the good old days.
Yes, the hippies were different from the student activists. I was never part of either. The “sex, drugs, rock n’ roll always happened somewhere I wasn’t. Some people just practiced their alternate lifestyle and parts of it did become the norm in society for subsequent generations.
What annoyed me was the people who made a display about their counterculture style, like it made them morally superior. I bet their kids are the “woke” types of today.
But in this thread, I am more concerned about the student radical types, especially the “flower powers”. They struck me as being mostly about some anarchist vision of society; tearing down most government institutions. I did not trust them at all.
But I repeat that my problem was and is that they had no real ideas about what they wanted. They assumed everything was going to keep getting better on its own. The right wing reaction of the 1980s just moved into a vacuum.
Between then and now, you still have the same types of bubble heads. The first difference is that instead of unrealistic optimism, they are hung up in unrealistic pessimism. But the most important difference is that this time we have people with a clear idea of what they want as a replacement to the current arrangements.
These people understand that it is not going to happen by itself. It will not happen by everyone throwing out “peace and love” vibes. Also, there is no point in waking people up if you have nothing to show them; after awhile they just go back to sleep. Right, Cait?
One commentator on this thread criticized Cait as seeming unaware that whatever change she seems to be advocating will only come about from a revolution which is likely to be violent. By golly, it does seem that way, doesn’t it? Corrupt oligarchies usually do not go away without a fight.
Corrupt oligarchies are never as formidable as they appear. They fall regularly. Then the question is; are the leaders of the resistance surprised at their own success? Do they have a clue what to do next? When they only know what they are against, and not what they are for, what they are trying to do, oligarchies tend to regroup and come back.
But there is the point I started out trying to make. You will never end capitalism until you have post capitalism figured out. I have spent enough time on this thread. I have compost to haul around today.
Sometime soon, I will use this discussion as a base for another brilliant blog post.
Greetings from Toronto.
I share your opinion, our leader Caitlin has a strong diagnosis and she’s a pleasure to read but her prescription is nowhere: kevetching plus wishful thinking. She’s a commentator and a bloody good one, honest, but not in the world or a product of the world she sits on the sidelines pontificating.
I find the entire left devoid of solutions, left liberalism has become a cul-de-sac, it is exhausted. I think they know they have failed (as you say) hence their impatience- the successor ideology of Wes Yang - and this illiberal moment.
What does it say when Caitlin writes about Israel and maybe five people posted something but the comments regarding Jimmy Dore go on for days?
However you slice it, that's fucked up.
She includes Jimmy Dore and manages to forget the legacy media, which is far bigger, better funded, and more powerful?
This just shows again that neoliberals would rather silence anyone to the left of them than actually work for change.
Please listen to Phil Ochs' "Love Me, I'm a Liberal" over and over again.
your description suggests that the effect of plurality voting and consequent 2-party duopoly on reporting (and consequently on the collective minditself) is even more powerful than described here: https://rangevoting.org/MediaLapdogs.html
I don't think Prof. Smith himself really appreciated the extent to which people like Seder become obsessed with *actively* enforcing party orthodoxy. Clearly it goes well beyond a focus on
the activities of electable parties.
Nomiki holds too left dogma that Dore mocks and punctures : yes?
Not following. Was that a comment or a haiku?
An honest, non-ironic question, I’ve never seen Jimmy Dore.
I take it he is liberal, but, a heretic who refuses to stay on script and makes his livelihood mocking the hypocrisies which staying on script necessitate. Basically Fox News from the left - I suppose that makes it sting more, one of their own tattletaling. That’s what Trump rally‘s were, trump outing the elite, a one hour diatribe on the hypocrites, mocking them.
Haiku - new word for me - Japanese poem, I bet that shit is boring, like kabuki theatre. Japanese do some really boring stuff.
two moons this clear spring
night—one drifts among the stars.
one floats in the lake.
Boring? Depends. One man's poison and all that...
Your question confused me regarding your term "too left" when describing Nomiki, as my take is that her fault is in not being left enough. Your characterizing Jimmy as Fox News from the left is also troubling, as I would say this applies more accurately to outfits like MSNBC and individuals personified my the noxious and overpaid Rachel Maddow.
Besides giving haiku a chance, I'd invite you to do likewise with Jimmy Dore. As far as I know he advocates for decency for a majority of people and calls out the BS of the left and the right, much like Caitlin. And where else, besides Tucker Carlson, can you hear Glenn Greenwald's take on things?
He's NOT a liberal, which has become an insult on the left. He's far to the left of liberals, who are now Centrists.
And haiku is cleverly arranged so that you should be able to determine what season of the year and time of day it was written. It's very subtle, but subtlety isn't understood by some people.
It's a form of poetry originating in Japan composed of three lines of 5 syllables, 7 syllables, and 5 again. It commonly deals in themes of nature but modern poets have embraced countless other themes. The tight structure and short length make for a an enjoyable yet attainable challenge.