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Lorie's avatar

Thomas Fazi's latest article describes exactly what Thiel and Musk, via JD Vance want for US citizens (based on the writings of biofascisti Yarvin):

"All residents, even temporary visitors, carry an ID card with RFID response. All are genotyped and iris-scanned. Public places and transportation systems track everyone. Security cameras are ubiquitous. Every car knows where it is and who is sitting in it, and tells the authorities both. Residents cannot use this data to snoop into each other’s lives, but Friscorp can use it to monitor society at an almost arbitrarily detailed level."

https://www.thomasfazi.com/p/a-victory-for-covid-policy-sceptics?publication_id=560592&post_id=153207763&isFreemail=true&r=ilq6b&triedRedirect=true&utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email

It's almost like that already. Fk them to hell.

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Vin LoPresti's avatar

Surveillance drones in place, mainstream propaganda engines revving, billionaire corruption channels flowing copious quantities of largesse. What could go wrong?

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Jon Olsen's avatar

"One empire, under surveillance, with deceit and oppression for all."

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Jon Olsen's avatar

Feel free folks to make that into a poster or post cards--no need for any atttibution.

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Jon Olsen's avatar

Or bumper stickers

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Jon Olsen's avatar

Yay, made 50 likes!

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Jala's avatar

Vin. Lack of courage, and conviction of the majority, it seems. Especially in the un -United States. No mass marches of any significance. Especially since J6.

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Vin LoPresti's avatar

Definitely an important factor in the mix.

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Ghostfromthefuture's avatar

15 minute cities. It does not mean that you can reach everything in 15 minutes. It means you will be arrested in 15 minutes or less.

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Luke's avatar

No clue who Fazi is but the leftists were trying pretty goddamn hard to stick us all with vaccine passports and medical IDs. Just keeping it real 😉

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Lorie's avatar

oh please. Bill gates, wef, biden et al are anything but left. I'm a little sick of that designation, which only works to divide & conquer. Fazi was critical of the whole covid mess btw, as I am. ANd I'm about as far left as one can get without being arrested.

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Indu Abeysekara's avatar

Hello Lorie, Everything in America is distorted. "Left" in America doesn't mean what the rest of the world mean by Left. The polity consists of Right, Far Right and Extreme Right, bordering on Fascism.

Distortion of words beyond their conventional meaning is just another way of keeping the public confused, conditioned and misinformed.

Anyway take it as my perceived observation.

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Sixway's avatar

People who vote republican call everything they hate liberal. People who vote democrat call everything they hate conservative. And no one hates war or banks or giant corporations writing all laws.

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Lorie's avatar

i think that's true. And I also think there's been a concerted effort by the ruling class to have that happen, over the past at least 70 or so years.

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Nick's avatar

> . Bill gates, wef, biden et al are anything but left

They're not. But at least in Europe (and probably the US) even most anarchists and "communists" were all full pro-covid-measures

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Haeretica's avatar

Most of the european left has been co-opted for a loooong long time ago. Operation Gladio and others completely killed it post-wwII. America was not only in the business of destroying the left inside, they made everything to destroy it everywhere in the world - and Europe was very important place (for the american ruling class) to let it become communist, which is a goal they had in common with european fascists. Post wwII was a fucking massacre on the left.

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Jon Olsen's avatar

I distinguish between us AUTHENTIC leftists and the FAUXI "left."

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toni jean's avatar

Trump warped shots, locked down usa grounding flights, warped speed 5g under lockdown, he is the cabal warped speed biotracking and removal of cash to stop those only seen on govt tv fake immigrants invading usa....no one owns the earth! If such named illegals exist, cudos! They are the bravest real freedom fighters able to cross tundra on foot with nothing , that no american is capable of doing going in the opposite direction! 🤔🤔🤔 borders and fences build your own cages!!

Live free or die, live others live free stop wanting to control another persons movement! ps virus dont exist. Www.VirusTruth.net

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James S.  Wilkerson's avatar

That was liberals, not leftists

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Luke's avatar

Let me ask you, one person corrected me on here before and said called Neoliberals. Is there an easy way to distinguish between the two? I always thought liberals were good (classical sense). In many ways I consider myself one.

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Chang Chokaski's avatar

(1) Neoliberalism VS Liberalism, what's the difference? [https://thisvsthat.io/liberalism-vs-neoliberalism]

(2) Leftist vs Liberal: Key Differences [https://helpfulprofessor.com/leftist-vs-liberal/] -> Ignore their list of US politicians, as the US does NOT have any major "leftist" politicians. Even Bernie Sanders is a liberal (as are the so-called progressives in the Democratic Party)

Also keep in mind that over the years, the definitions have become somewhat muddled, and what is LEFT in the US is often NOT "left" in the rest of the world. Another example: Liberals in Australia are more similar to Conservatives in America.

Yes, it can get confusing...sometimes the boundaries are hazy.

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Duane McPherson's avatar

Neoliberal is an economic philosophy. It is based on the idea that a perfectly free-market economy will self-regulate to provide the best products at the lowest cost to consumers, while simultaneously providing the highest profits to producers. Neoliberal economics is the mantra of the Chicago school of economics, whose most prominent spokesman was Milton Friedman.

Liberal is a political philosophy. It is based on the idea that society is formed by individuals, who have intrinsic rights and responsibilities. Liberal philosophy is a product of the 18th century Enlightenment and philosophers such as Locke, Kant, Rousseau, Hobbes, and Hume were major contributors.

There are intellectual threads connecting Liberal philosophy and Free-Market economics, but fundamentally they are separate: one is about the philosophy of life and individual freedom and the other is about economics.

In American mainstream media, the two are always mixed up together, so that protesting against capitalism is viewed as protesting against freedom. And when the US says it wants to promote democracy abroad, that actually means it wants to promote neoliberal economics and never mind all that stuff about civil liberty.

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Indu Abeysekara's avatar

Duane McPherson, Appreciate your very lucid and cogent explanation - thank you.

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Chang Chokaski's avatar

Well explained, thank you Duane McPherson!

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Luke's avatar

Thank you!

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Mike's avatar

Oh, it's real simple to distinguish between 'liberals'/'neoliberals' and genuine leftists.

If they appear on mainstream media, they aren't genuine leftists.

Every single narrative in economics & geopolitics in western mass (mainstream media) is now factually fraudulent propaganda.

That doesn't mean to say 'alternative' voices are always right - especially in macro economics (most leftists don't have the correct facts of system operation) - but it's a g'tee the mainstream mass media are omitting, lying & fabricating.

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Chang Chokaski's avatar

Well said Mike!

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martin's avatar

there's this saying among actual leftists 'scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds'.

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Rob L's avatar

Sorry that you’re so pathetic that wearing a mask makes you cry 😭

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Sixway's avatar

Labels are kind of stupid. You're either pro-state controlling absolutely everything on earth or you're not. There are plenty of people on all sides of any label you choose who are the former side and almost none on the latter side. Divided people just argue over stupid crap while the state continues to control more and more and more.

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Luke's avatar

So is black and white thinking. “You are either this way or you are not.” 😉

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Sixway's avatar

It's the only division that is never discussed. The elite vs. the people they want to control. We should all be on the same side but most are too brainwashed and dumbed down to see it so they argue with each other while ignoring any possibility of it not being that way.

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Haeretica's avatar

Nope. That's not the division. It's between the ruling class and the working class. The haves and havenots. The "state" is still controlled by people. And without a state, a rulling class can also control the havenots though private forces. So no, it is not an abstract idea of state which is the main problem - it is the hoarders of wealth, the parasites stealing the wealth from those who create it.

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Sixway's avatar

The state is not controlled by the people. It's controlled by the ruling class. They hoard the wealth only with the extensive help they get from the state they own. They write the laws in their favor to rig everything and eliminate all competition and pay for them to be passed.

And when is there ever not a state to test your theory?

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Bruno's avatar

What's in a name?

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Jon Olsen's avatar

Yes, James. it was the FAUXI "left" which is to say no left at all. Authentic left is anti-imperialist, just to start.

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Vin LoPresti's avatar

He co-authored with Toby Green a book called "The COVID Consensus". A decent treatment focusing on the impoverishment impact of lockdowns on poorer folks internationally.

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Lorie's avatar

yep. Fazi's pretty good also on critiquing the mess the EU has become.

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JennyStokes's avatar

We still have healthcare.

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Jim's avatar

Jenny it's not a competition, the EU is a crime syndicate.

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Nick's avatar

Just barely.

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JennyStokes's avatar

What does this mean?

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JennyStokes's avatar

There are no leftists in the USA

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Jon Olsen's avatar

Oh yes there are! Just not in government.

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Gavin Farrell's avatar

Well, there are some, but they're certainly not in political power or in the mainstream media :)

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Vin LoPresti's avatar

Jenny, I think you're mostly onto the fact that the brainwashing of the masses is really so heavy from infancy --- for all middle and much of the working class white children in the US, that their probability of really going far left is very low barring an earthshaking, headbanging event -- which for me was "hey mofo, you're re-classed 1A, we wanna send you to uselessly die in 'Nam". But there are real leftists in communities of the internally colonized-- but they are silenced one way or the other: Malcolm X, Fred Hampton, Leonard Peltier, Caesar Chavez. I believe that any genuinely revolutionary voice from the left here needs to come from one of those internally colonized populations. Ghost of Geronimo can you hear me?

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JennyStokes's avatar

Vin. Hello.

I did live for 23yrs in one of those colonies, a Canyon in Los Angeles

I certainly couldn't have lived that long if we hadn't lived where we did.

Really nice intelligent some very lefty people. Now it's ruined by the rich discovering it.

A lot of the people I knew headed out to other States and Countries. This was just before G.W.Bush got in.

When we first got to France..........it was freedom for us. French people really don't like rules and they love political discussions. Now here everything is changing and I am too old to move on and learn a different language.

What will be will be and am getting SO tired of these never-ending wars and gross stupidity! People dying everywhere. My heart is heavy.

Hope Leonard Peltier gets a pardon IF the GVT. have not forgotten him.

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Vin LoPresti's avatar

Hi Jenny. That's the despicable situation in the US; money always creeps in to destroy neighborhoods. House next door to me is essentially being run as an Air B&B by an absentee landlord. Never know at any moment who belongs there and who might just be prowling. Sorry it's changing over there, not for the better obviously.

Sadly, I think the scumbags would be happy to see Leonard die in prison.

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JennyStokes's avatar

Me again Vin. from France.

Americans are coming here in droves.

What they do is buy up appartments then rent them out as BNB"s same as you just said above.

The French have just introduced a Law against 2nd homes. Taxes.

Immediately my American neighbours are selling their properties at grossly inflated prices. They do not care that the French cannot afford these homes as long as they can eat out every night and have American friends. They do not attempt making friends with the French people. They won't come and discuss politics in out major market square before lunch.

Why exactly is it that US WHITE people can come to France so easily while the French are deporting Arab nations who do the work in the fields having fought wars WITH the French occupiers.

Come on Americans....come to France and pick Strawberries/in the boiling hot sun. No. Only the rich Americans come in.

I am an International person born in Sri Lanka to Colonial parents.I don't want a fucking passport from a Zionist/UK state. Nor do I subscribe to white people ruling the planet/white people are in the minority now.

I KNOW how this works.

Iran in in my opinion should BOMB Washington DC before the US does this to them.

Iran knows they are next on the Agenda of WHITE supremacists.

As you can see from the above I am so fucking angry. The USA/UK Europe are busy destroying themselves.

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Vicki's avatar

Oh spare me the whining about covid. Like your ass would have had a better plan with people expecting you to stop a disease when so many are just stupid.

We didn't have vaccine passports so stop the whining.

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Luke's avatar

Had it been for your kind Vicki we would’ve had them vaccine passports. I may have even been thrown in a camp. Just kidding I don’t go to camps. I would soon die first.

Those vaccines had to have been developed right along side with Covid. I believe they sent them to trials in April 2020. In other words they had synthesized them almost immediately. Yet they couldn’t seem to get one ready for Omicron until the it had completely dissipated.

A brand new drug and brand new technology. I hope you now understand why I was vaccine hesitant. 😉

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Jill 🌞's avatar

Sad that you and anyone would turn the vaccines into a political narrative…there was a pandemic. hundreds of thousands were dying and being put into make-shift morgues. this was a global phenomenon. we had a dip ship president who denied, tossed the instructions thoughtfully and carefully prepared for him. It was a necessary public health policy. Period.

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Luke's avatar

Is this parody?

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Bama Vinson's avatar

Literally never heard this and I’m in Alabama lol

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Rita Margarita la te da's avatar

No you’re not. You are anti-American. Go away.

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Ron Palangio's avatar

Duh not leftists but scientists, doctors and public health experts. Then there are some who think science is a leftist conspiracy

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Luke's avatar

Here is a detailed comment I left on Lily Substack. She was writing about the World Economic Forum (WEF). We have been living under a Global Fascist Imperialism sort of govt pretending to be liberal.

Forgive me if I have spouted my opinion on K Schwab and the WEF before. Until after the COVID rollout I had NO clue who Davos Man was. After bearing witness to the identical response protocols it didn’t take a genius to suspect something was pulling the strings.

What I think happened is that KS, fresh off his high with Covid and vaccine protocol success decided to write a book. He then proceeded to announce to the world just what a Dictators he/they were. Several bullet points stood out such as “You will own nothing.” “You will eat bugs.”

I would later download the pdf from their meeting in 2021. Apologies I do not have it but if I go rummaging thru my files I could probably find it. They had two columns one was for the goal and the other column was for acceptable terms. For Ex: eating meat was supposed to be cut to zero by 2030. However the ever so tolerant ones gave a pass that 1/4 lbs of meat per week would be acceptable.

I still chuckle at the thought of someone above KS probably wanting to punch him in the balls for releasing that book (who knows). I was no longer a right leaning sheep and I got to thinking how could you go from the American landscape circa 2022 to owning nothing. There was no picturesque way to accomplish such a feat without major turmoil and collapse.

And so if I study their behavior (unlimited money printing, opposite reality actions) I have little doubt they were going to pull the plug on humanity. I do NOT believe that is an option anymore. Not unless China & Russia play ball and it’s increasingly looking as if tho they are not.

Enter the current situation and the Trump Presidency. Knowing what I know now, I believe some tough decisions are in order. And that is exactly what we are seeing play out before our very eyes. This is why I stand with Trump come hell or high water.

If the collapse that was being engineered happens regardless I believe we are FUCKED!! It will look nothing like 1929. Most of them were still pretty tough back then and knew their way around gardening and hunting. I believe the cities will be a hellscape within day after things start closing down.

Lily, I would be very curious as to your thoughts on this matter. Am I concerned for know reason? Please no hurry or maybe you could even do a post on it sometime.

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Luke's avatar

I’m sorry Ron, I didn’t quite understand your reply. Was there some part of it I got wrong?

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Fed Up With Fraud's avatar

You need to get out more.

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KHGUAN's avatar

This sounds like a stereotypical Cyberpunk dystopia.

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Brian Bixby's avatar

After spending 16 years working in the physical security industry (key cards, cameras, alarms, that stuff), the flaw in their plans consists of people like us.

One operator can monitor 6-10 cameras for 15-20 minutes before needing a break because human attention spans are limited. The British police have access to over two *million* cameras and say that they've helped prevent **DOZENS** of crimes over the course of a decade. Not thousands, not hundreds, not even scores. Dozens.

I had the luck to work with one of the most competent teams in North America, but we were expensive. Most security installs are done using default settings, for ease of installation and maintenance. I could tell you how to sit down in a meeting room and take over 90% of the installations of the world's largest security vendor with just a laptop and network cable, and there are a Lot of people out there who could.

Want to test a company's security? Show up around lunch time or shift change in something that looks like a security company uniform with a ladder in one hand, a tool bag in the other, and maybe a box under one arm. People are too nice, they'll badge the door and hold it open for you.

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Feral Finster's avatar

"One operator can monitor 6-10 cameras for 15-20 minutes before needing a break because human attention spans are limited. "

What do you think AI is for? If it is good at nothing else, it is very good at pattern recognition.

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Chang Chokaski's avatar

>>"it is very good at pattern recognition."

True, but it depends on the data that is fed to the AI system. The quality (and quantity) of the data that the AI systems learns from is what matters. There are so many opportunities of "biased" data, "dirty/faulty/inaccurate" data, etc. to creep into such systems. Then there are feedback loops and "machine learning" that learn based on "the data that it is fed".

My biggest fear is: WHO is in control of the data that is being fed into these AI systems that the systems learn on and base their decisions on? If the 1% (power elite, etc.) are in control of the quality/quantity of such data, then I doubt the AI systems will be used for the benefit of the 99%.

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Brian Bixby's avatar

The PTB (the 0.001%) would have no clue how to corrupt the data into a desired result, nor are they competent to recognize who is. For now we have to worry much more about cleaning up the biases found on Reddit and other data sources than the possibility of deliberate corruption. Yes, that will change, but not for a decade or so.

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Chang Chokaski's avatar

I disagree with you (on multiple levels). To understand the impact of bias (and bad data), look no further than all the processes that currently use such AI decision-based systems -> loan applications, financial industry and banking, recruitment process, the justice system and sentencing verdicts, who gets hired and who doesn't, who gets approved for a program and who doesn't, the criminal and prison system, the surveillance system (for example: recognition of black/asian vs white faces), and on and on....

I suggest reading the book "Weapons of Math Destruction" (Book by Cathy O'Neil on the detrimental impact of applying artificial intelligence without questioning underlying social implications) and how "biased" and "bad" data affect such AI systems and the decision making processes of society.

The consequences of decisions made by such AI systems is multiple magnitudes more problematic that "controlling bias on sites like Reddit, etc.". There isn't even a comparison to be had.

Maybe also look into how AI systems are used by the Military (MIC) and Surveillance state - and how the bias and bad data in such systems affects outcomes.

The PTB don't need to understand HOW AI systems work or the details and specifics of data, etc. They set the objectives for outcomes. Hence, data that comforms (delivers on those outcomes) will likely get a higher priority/precedence of being used in such AI systems.

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Pat Reis's avatar

Could the recent drone activity in the United States possibly be the testing or setting up of AI for surveillance, etc. by the police state?

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Brian Bixby's avatar

Like I said, we first need to clean up the biases in the data that systems are going to be trained on. Since we don't actually know in a lot of cases what directed the AI model in the direction it's hard to fix our data acquisition processes. Once we have a data set that is clean (and there are a lot for things like engineering processes) THEN scientists can start experimenting to see what tweaking the data in particular ways does. That's the time to start worrying about deliberate manipulation, now is the time to clean that shit up.

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Feral Finster's avatar

I said not a thing about who would be benefitted.

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Chang Chokaski's avatar

Yes, I wasn't arguing with your point, just adding my thoughts.

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Remsomm's avatar

Stuff the data, just set it to 'ON' and let it shoot whatever moves and has a heat signature. Pets, kids, grandparents, the lizard hiding under a brick...as long as it has a recorded Arnold Schwarzenegger AI voice, its fine. :) just kidding, even though the future looks a bit bleak in this regard

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Duane McPherson's avatar

My thoughts exactly. And AI doesn't need coffee or a bathroom break.

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Brian Bixby's avatar

So far it's been useless for monitoring, except to notice that something has moved, or vehicles/people are going the wrong way. Large Language Models (LLM) are the primary types of AI in use and being researched, and they're a long, long way from being able to make the type of judgements necessary for video monitoring.

For the foreseeable future security video will remain mostly for forensics, for examining events after the fact.

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Feral Finster's avatar

I've heard of using AI for screening Xrays and making cancer diagnoses.

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Brian Bixby's avatar

Yes, it's actually better for that sort of thing in some cases, a human can examine a quarter of a breast cancer biopsy slide in five minutes, the AI can analyze the entire thing and compare it to its database of known samples in a few seconds. That's an entirely different type of task than deciding whether the person on the screen is selling drugs or preparing to rob a store. When AI is capable of doing that it will also be time to start worrying about it acquiring sentience.

AI has its uses, especially when combined with robotics, and in many cases only the inertia of the insurance industry is keeping humans employed. It's not a drop-in replacement for humans in all cases, but for some things it's faster, cheaper, and more efficient than us meat-bags.

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Feral Finster's avatar

Well, that's the first thing to come to mind. Point is, AI can presumably be trained on other kinds of pattern recognition as well.

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Howard Pearce - Libertarian's avatar

"carry an ID card with RFID response."

That sounds like a violation of privacy if you have to carry it with you

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Tripp Rhodes's avatar

Trying to educate a MAGAT about how they are the indoctrinated useful idiots for the authoritarian fascist destruction of The United States is futile. There are 3 pathways cult members are afforded to escape from their imprisoned mind: 1 - They realize themselves and seek deprogramming 2 - Family or friends succeed in breaking through by radical intervention 3 - The cult leaders or members see self-destruction as the only viable way to demonstrate complete loyalty

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Greg Garriss's avatar

Almost every American feels a sense of accomplishment to be able to carry the latest device equipped with multiple cameras, stereo microphones, biometric sensors and GPS tracking wirelessly interconnected by a global cellular network. They even ensure that itʻs charged, active and accessible.

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Vicki's avatar

That sounds like 1984?

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Diana van Eyk's avatar

So one of the most radical things we can be is an independent thinker.

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Susan T's avatar

An independent thinker who is connected to nature.

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Al's avatar

Simplistic assertion.

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Renee Marie's avatar

The answer is very simplistic. Don’t over think it.

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Al's avatar

I tend to overthink. I've learnt also that we too easily jump to conclusions. Spent time on better understanding How and What we can Know, and how easily our brains are fooled. One thing I'm certain of is that we should be less certain about our easy conclusions. I also know that I know nothing. I am a Global Village Idiot.

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Chang Chokaski's avatar

Unfortunately, "independent thinkers" often land up paying a "price" for their independence. Independent/non-comformist thinkers are often shunned/excluded/socially-outcast from society for their "independence" and unique views/perspectives on things. There are lots of examples from history that show that "thinking independently" comes with a price. Many succumb to societal pressures and often are not able to go through with their "independent thinking" (i.e. for some, the cost/trade-offs become too large).

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Indu Abeysekara's avatar

Yes, Chang independent thinking always comes at a price. The epitaph for Rosa Luxemburg says it well ".... she told the poor the truth, so they did away with her....".

In spite of that independent thinkers do "....... departing they leave behind us footprints on the sands of time....".

Otherwise we will never have a Revolution.

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Al's avatar

Truthseeking vs powerseeking (politics, social)...

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Renee Marie's avatar

Bring it!!!!

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Indu Abeysekara's avatar

Yes, Diana van Eyk, Independent, critical thinking, and always being skeptical. Coupled with the ability to care for others.

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Isende's avatar

Always has been 👊🏻😎

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Chang Chokaski's avatar

A few notes:

(1) The American citizenry/populace have been LAB RATS for decades now -> they have been honing their propaganda machinery (including advertising, marketing, PR, false narratives, misinformation & disinformation campaigns, etc.) for quite a while on us.

(2) People often complain about Russian oligarchs. But IMHO, I think American oligarchs are more dangerous to the planet and ALL LIFE on the planet.

(3) I don't care what people say to me, I consider "Luigi Mangione" to be a hero.

Something HAS TO BE DONE to OVERTHROW the corrupt, insidious, evil, psychotic 1% before it is too late. As Caitlin says, "THERE ARE A LOT MORE OF US THAN THEM"! We need to use our numbers to gain solidarity, unite, put our differences aside for a brief period, and tackle the BIGGEST THREAT to all humanity -> the oligarchs, global corporations, and all the systems they employ for wielding power and control over us.

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gypsy33's avatar

Agree with your assertion, Chang. Those in positions of power, whether CEOs or politicians, need to be afraid. VERY afraid.

I feel like Luigi’s actions are merely the beginning. The peasants are coming for the elite with torches, pitchforks, and AK 47s.

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Luke's avatar

I am a big fan of Mangione. I have praised him for showing us the way. The conservative right has been hellbent on the idea that it needs to raise a standing army to overthrow TPTB. That is not possible given the nature of technology.

That’s being said we need these people to understand without killing them all. Our society will cease to exist if that happens and this place will be ruled by psychopaths and warlords up until the point Nations who suffered the least kill them off and enslave the rest.

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martin's avatar

... will be ruled ...? this place is already ruled by psychopaths and warlords. that is how rule of the few over the many works, afaik. any particular irreplaceable ones you would like to spare?

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Luke's avatar

lol well that’s true. Guess I was referring to the type you see on the movie The Road Warrior. They (Idk who, maybe CIA) estimate 90% of the population is dead 6-12 months after power is gone. Dennis Quaid (famous actor) recently released a documentary about this.

I concur, if this happens we are toast. It’s kind of ironic, I have been told by those who know my best I would be their pick to survive such an event. It’s true, I probably would have some of the better odds. But I have no desire to test such an idea.

The libs don’t get it. These people they consider crude DT supporters are very much needed. They deliver supplies, keep the electricity flowing, water sanitized, protect the citizens (police and .mil). Once these people stop getting a paycheck and it’s too dangerous to leave their families it falls apart pretty damn quick.

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martin's avatar

the DT supporters obviously don't get it either.

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Luke's avatar

He’s all we got. My fingers are crossed. It’s as I was telling Chang we can’t afford for the system to go down. People haven’t thought that thru. The right has but not these people lol. It would be gruesome and I pray that it never happens.

I guess some on the left are thinking they want a civil war. That would not be a good idea. Lucky for them it probably couldn’t happen. It wouldn’t draw up very nice on paper. Just a bunch of people killing each other.

That idea should be frowned upon 😆

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Luke's avatar

You don’t want to do that trust me. You (we) need to find ways to affect change slowly within the system. If you think that you may want an overthrow I suggest you contemplate it for a bit longer. Once that starts it’s your worst nightmare. The people with the capability to do it understand this. That doesn’t stop some of them from wanting to do it tho. Those people are called psychopaths. We must not let them win.

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David Avenell's avatar

I think history shows that the system is rarely changed from within and most often by outside forces or conditions. That's why it's called revolution, not evolution.

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Dan Tompkins's avatar

You’re both right. We need a spiritual revolution. Most of us (humans) are as bad as the evil we criticize and lack the capacity for meaningful change. We must first be the change before taking action to affect the outside world. Otherwise, hypocrisy will continue to reign supreme and the cycle will continue. On the other hand, if we simply stare inside we can get caught up in narcissistic self-help materialism while we let the fascists take control of everything. We need to tear down the machine as we focus on our internal mental/spiritual states so as to evolve and avoid. becoming the evil we fear.

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Renee Marie's avatar

The true change is spiritual. Many knew/know this.

If every person changed within, we wouldn’t be here.

Look at yourself in the mirror everyday. Be the change YOU want in the world.

Easier said than done for most. Stop pointing fingers everywhere else, but yourself.

THIS is where true power comes from…energy and frequency!

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Chang Chokaski's avatar

>>"Stop pointing fingers everywhere else, but yourself."

THIS is exactly the narrative that the power-elite and the neoliberals want YOU to believe. They want YOU to blame YOURSELF, to find faults with YOURSELF, when in reality it is a DIVERSIONARY tactic.

THEY don't want YOU looking at THEM. THEY don't want YOU to notice how THEY are surreptiously exploiting and gaslighting YOU. THEY want YOU to shift YOUR focus on YOURSELF instead of THEM.

NO, NO, NO! Don't fall for their shitty, dishonest narratives. Don't be a SUCKER!

Read up on structural and systemic violence, racism, injustice, oppression, exploitation, etc. Read up on "how the systems are designed" to exploit us WITHOUT any fault of our own.

STOP BEING PLAYED BY THEM. Instead of looking at yourself, LOOK AT THEM - start pointing FINGERS AT THEM!!! See the false narratives for what they really are.

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Luke's avatar

Those people in the past were much more equipped to deal with sever hardships. Hell the women used to birth half a dozen kids quite regularly with only the aid of a mid wife.

Even if you succeeded a new group of elites would rise instead. Probably be another nation enslaving the remnants of our civilization. The survivalist type always talks about how to get thru a collapse. They never get into what comes shortly thereafter after once the confusion and chaos settle.

Sorry to be a buzz kill guys. I am honestly not trying to be a prick.

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David Avenell's avatar

'Even if you succeeded a new group of elites would rise instead'. You sound like Prof. Mearsheimer - that's just the way the world works and it will always work that way, so change is not possible.

I prefer to think change is possible but we might be running out of time.

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Luke's avatar

I didn’t always think like that. I have spent the last 4 years extremely black pilled. I was scared of where society was heading and I was just as scared what would happen if it collapsed.

The great SS writer John Carter wrote a piece this past summer that is probably what turned me around. The title/topic was what would happen if the elites stole the election again (what would Trump do)? John’s answer and I agreed, was nothing.

Then JC got into what would have happened had DT crossed the Rubicon in 2020. For example say for J6 instead he said bring the rifles. Or in 2024 this time he did.

John made the point as to why we were probably better off living in that system than say one with internal wars. This thought process of imagining a somewhat functioning nation while the rest of it fights to the death is fantasy. It would be all out chaos and despair.

The supply lines would go down almost immediately. The cities would stave. Unlike what most conservatives think, so would the rural areas. Too many mouths to feed and most definitely not enough time or slack to adjust. The mass casualty rate would be exponential.

I used to think a country like China was trying to collapse us. No, that was incorrect. The risk to their own nation would be just as grave. Most of their people thrown back into abject poverty and starvation.

The good news is if we can get to 1/20 I think we might be ok. It depends on how Trump will govern tho. He’s NOT the dictator he’s accused of being. Therefore he will play by the rules which means he can be harangued badly by the current elites.

Idk, that Tucker/Sachs video made me nervous tonight tho. These people (mostly neocons) are VERY paranoid right now (rightly so). Never has there ever been a lame Duck session fraught with such danger. But I also have the first glimpse of hope I have had in 4 years and that’s a nice feeling. I hope it holds.

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David Avenell's avatar

When I said we're running out of time I was thinking of climate change. That is going to bring on the conditions you mention, collapsing food production disabled supply chain disruptions and more.

A bunch of psychopaths driving the bus can only accelerate the collapse.

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Feral Finster's avatar

Of course, you'd only get a new set of elites eventually.

The Iron Law Of Oligarchy always wins in the end. That is why, after some 5,000 of human history, humans still argue about what system works, and can point to failures of every type of system, and how every system eventually fails, as sociopaths take over as sure as oxygen corrodes iron.

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Jim's avatar

The history that the winners gave to you David. Think about it.

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Chang Chokaski's avatar

>>"You (we) need to find ways to affect change slowly within the system. "

WRONG, WRONG WRONG!!!

The system is CREATED by THEM to serve THEM. If you don't yet understand this, you understand NOTHING.

>>".....want to do that trust me."

I DON"T trust YOU Luke. I've seen your comments, your thinking, etc. and I don't like it - I DON'T trust YOU or YOUR understanding of "how systems work" (or your knowledge and understanding of history and historical events).

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Luke's avatar

Most everything you said in your original comment I agree with. However this system will not (because it cannot) be over thrown. The WORLD economy has evolved to feed 8B people. Any disruption of that will cause great misery. I used to think it was just around the corner. I even prepared and trained for it.

To quote Putin in regards to nuclear war; same result, There are no winners only losers.

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Chang Chokaski's avatar

Two points:

(1) Look at David Avenell's comment above ->"history shows that the system is rarely changed from within and most often by outside forces or conditions."

(2) Like I said before, you don't seem to adequately understand how systems work and evolve and are maintained. Based on your current understanding, it would be too much effort for me to explain all the faults with your understanding of systems. Maybe some other commentators would like to take up the task of addressing Luke's "narratives" and "beliefs" about systems and systems change.

Luke, I wish you good luck in hopefully evolving YOUR THINKING to align more with reality (and how things REALLY WORK instead of the narratives we are made to believe of how things work - which is your viewpoint currently).

Also, STUDY history. Study systems in history. Study how systems have evolved in the past. Study how POWER works. Once you begin to fully understand how POWER works, understanding other things becomes easier.

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Luke's avatar

Fair enough!

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gypsy33's avatar

Chairman Mao:

Change only comes through the barrel of a gun.

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Luke's avatar

Maybe!

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Mazirian's avatar

The system is incapable of self-correction, regrettably collapse and rebuild is the only change can be enacted in any meaningful way.

There’s no silver lining, the medicine is going to hurt like buggery.

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Luke's avatar

I sure hope you are wrong because the vast majority won’t make it. There’s a great chance Western Nations will bite the dust altogether. Most likely what’s left ends up enslaved to another nation

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GabeReal's avatar

I agree with #1 and 2, but not #3. Yes our healthcare system is terrible and needs to be fixed. But murder is murder. Take the high road. #twowrongsdontmakearight.

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Chang Chokaski's avatar

Sure, tell the Palestinians that murder is murder, and that they should take the high road should they? All the oppressed and exploited people should take the high road, should they? Really?

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GabeReal's avatar

I don’t equate the two. Getting denied health coverage is not the same as being oppressed. Cheering on murder is a slippery slope…

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Chang Chokaski's avatar

Do you live in the US?

Do you know how the US helath care system works?

Do you know how many people have DIED because of denied health coverage?

Do you know how many people have gone into debt because of the US Health care system?

Do you know how many people commit SUICIDE because of the financial burdens placed on them by the Health Care system?

Do you know how many lives are shortened because of "denied health coverage" for something that you've already paid for?

Do you understand what OPPRESSION is?

GabeReal, please get educated on how the health care system works in the US. Also, please get REAL instead of living in "your fantasy world of your moralities".

Are you in the 1% (or work for a Health Insurance company)? I ask because your comments display a total lack of awareness of the health care situation in the US and the reality on the ground.

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GabeReal's avatar

Quit with the insults, jacksss. I’m well aware that our healthcare system is messed up, but that doesn’t mean murder is the answer. Check your morals.

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Chang Chokaski's avatar

(1) Understand what an insult is

(2) Just because you don't have a logical or coherent argument doesn't mean you need to resort to ad hominem attacks

(3) You DON'T understand the US healthcare system, and especially NOT the consequences of the system on everyday people (the 99%, not the 1% like you - or maybe you've been bought off by the 1%)

(4) Your comment (and inability to understand the impacts of the US Healthcare system on ordinary people) displays your LACK of morals (as you seem to side with the CEOs instead of the ordinary people). Maybe you NEED TO check YOUR morals.

(5) Nice attempt at virtue signaling. Sorry, it won't work on me - I wasn't born yesterday.

(6) Your privilege and lack of awareness for the problems faced by ordinary people shows in your responses.

(7) Work on your empathy and compassion (as your comments show you have little of them for ordinary people).

Stop hiding behind fake morals, virtue signaling, and weak arguments. Try raising your awareness about how REAL LIFE is for ordinary Americans (especially those affected by the US Healthcare system). Talk to REAL PEOPLE impacted by the US Healthcare system. Stop being a STOOGE for the Insurance industy and/or Healthcare industry.

And most importantly, STOP SUPPORTING MURDER! (Yes, the Health Insurance industry is responsible for thousands of deaths every year).

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Steve's avatar

Ok now let's check on Canada and its "free" health care.

Its third leading cause of death is now Medical Assistance in Dying. Not only will the government ALSO deny you expensive coverage, they will KILL YOU OFF.

Our system is screwy but it's the only one where if you are in real trouble, you *might* actually get the care you need. Maybe it'll cost you, but so does everything else in life.

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Chang Chokaski's avatar

Firstly, I can't believe that you are actually defending the WORST First-World Healthcare system on the planet (maybe you're out of touch with reality?)

>>"Its third leading cause of death is now Medical Assistance in Dying."

FALSE. Any statistics/reference to back up your claims?

>>"Our system is screwy but it's the only one where if you are in real trouble, you *might* actually get the care you need."

FALSE. Have you looked at any real data? On what basis are you making your assumptions/opinions?

It seems you've bought the neoliberal capitalist narratives about "the US healthcare system". I implore you to look at REAL data instead of narratives when forming your opinions.

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toni jean's avatar

Healthcare is big pharmas credit card. They create sick people by telling healthy people no symptoms they are sick with bogus tests. Convid biggest example of sickness con www.VirusTruth.NET

Healthiest people dont go to doctors dont take pharma understand illness self imposed by consuming fake food Toxic soda, junk food, veggies laden with toxic pesticides etc. smoking drinking and all pharma toxic to the body!

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martin's avatar

well the notion of 'self-defense', which is often not seen as 'murder', has been broadened quite a bit lately.

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GabeReal's avatar

Yeah that became apparent after Trayvon Martin got murdered.

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martin's avatar

not to mention the usual retort of western politicians, pundits and stenographers to the atrocities in palestine 'israel has a right to defend itself' no matter how far-fetched the direct threat (and it legally doesn't). the people would have the right to defend itself by the same standard.

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Indu Abeysekara's avatar

Chang, I agree with you on Luigi Mangione. Reminds me of the Baader Meinhof of West Germany and the Red Brigades of Italy. Sadly LM acted alone.

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Jasmine Doherty's avatar

The powerful always insist that we use the ‘proper channels’ to effect change, because they control those channels and they know it won’t work.

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Chang Chokaski's avatar

Good point!

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Megan Baker's avatar

“Diabolical” is often a hyperbolic vocabulary choice, but when describing Israel it’s a gross understatement.

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SW's avatar

The Peter Thiels of the world aren’t used to being asked direct questions that require them to pretend they care people might be mad about their crappy health care. They’re insulated by so many layers of cringing yes-men, I think it really is a horrifying glimpse of reality that not everyone likes bloodsucking CEOs. He was genuinely shocked anyone would sympathize with the motives of the suspected killer and all he could come up with was some confused ramblings about “making an argument”.

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Les's avatar

Peter Theil has a bolt hole in New Zealand, when his kind start WW3 he is going to run there. He was given New Zealand citizenship without spending one second living there, Just shows how corrupt the so called incorruptible New Zealand government really is, when push comes to shove they are all corrupt

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michael janket's avatar

NZ government has been very well known to be tyrannical. Once Covid blossomed, NZ government went bonkers and had over 90% of their citizens vaxxined. Did they really elect Bucktooth Bessie as their president/premier or was she shoehorned into the top spot by corruption?

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Jim's avatar

Thiel is just another Intel agency/government front. These people are not real billionaires, the agencies and governments own these companies

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Rosalind Dalefield's avatar

He got in because he was a good mate of the profoundly corruptible, and corrupt, John Key. Rich psychopaths both of them.

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Michelle's avatar

Correction: He wasn't given citizenship, he had to buy it lol, sold far too cheap in my opinion too. I mean if we are going to get into the business of selling citizenship to oligarchs we should at least make some decent coin off it lol.

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Ginnie's avatar

And yet most people are nothing but bootlickers kissing the asses of the Elon Musks and politicians of the world being their "fans" and "supporters". Like whoever heard of supporting a politician? Shouldn't it be the other way around? Isn't it their job in a democracy to support the people? Instead it seems to have become our job to rubberstamp their careers and make sure they reach power, which they then will use to architect our demise!!

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michael janket's avatar

I've always figured Musk was some sort of plant who will, some day, turn on us. There is something about Zuckerberg, Gates, Bezos and Musk that makes one very suspicious of their origins.

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Ginnie's avatar

yeah they are billionaires and by definition crooks and terrible human beings. You dont amass that kind of a wealth doing honest "work". Investment is not work, it is gambling and theft. You do not earn that kind of money, you usur out of people, society, the ecosystem.

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michael janket's avatar

Who said, "behind every great fortune is a great crime"?

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The Brothers Krynn's avatar

Agreed can't stand any of those guys, especially Musk and honestly am so tired of the 'fans' and 'supporters' mentality some have with politicians. They ought to be serving us, not the other way around.

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PJ London's avatar

More than 40 years ago, Alvin Toffler world famous futurologist with millions of book sales, was paid a vast amount of money to give a lecture/speech. He arrived, expecting his usual 300-400 people and was shown into a board room with 11 listeners. All of them multi-million/billionaires.

They all owned fancy-remote "hideaways" and fortresses, and the only subject they wanted him to discuss was "When the revolution/insurrection happens, how can we stop our security guards and household staff from simply killing us and taking our assets?"

Toffler did not reveal what he told them.

-

“Anyone who has seriously studied applied macroeconomics knows that crony capitalists hate free markets, with all the fairness and transparency that they imply. Competition is a serious drag on enormous profits and introduces significant uncertainty and risk. As soon as the game is underway, successful capitalists are constantly pushing the envelope of the rules, seeking to establish rents, monopolies, unfair advantages, and debt traps to snare the bulk of the players and stifle the profit-eroding tendency of real competition.

This is the basis of all aristocracies, which are merely the institutionalisation of privilege. Once they make it they bloody well want to change the rules to hang on to it, and take the risk out of their equation. They foster a culture of two sets of books, two sets of rules, and two systems of justice.

The oligarchs are perfectly willing to destroy the lives of hundreds of millions of citizens across the globe to insure their wealth and power remains intact.

Overtaxed, sometimes homeless, unemployed, hungry, and deprived of any hope of justice, the vast majority of French citizens were not blind. They saw their own children starve while stolen riches bought velvet outfits for children of the elite. When their desperation erupted abruptly into unbridled rage, the French Revolution had arrived."

Matt Taibbi

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Patrick Powers's avatar

Actually the French Revolution began when the King tried to ease the burden on the people by imposing a property tax. Those with property didn't like that. The streets were filled with lawyers and artisans in Paris who were outraged because a wall had been built around Paris in order to charge duties on imports. The common man in the countryside often supported the King. They were suppressed by the military.

Most of those killed during the reign of terror were ordinary people.

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PJ London's avatar

Actually that is one viewpoint.

“What then is, generally speaking, the truth of history? A fable agreed upon.” -

Napoleon Bonaparte

Actually there are many more.

Wiki

"There is significant disagreement among historians of the French Revolution as to its causes. Usually, they acknowledge the presence of several interlinked factors, but vary in the weight they attribute to each one."

And

6 causes

https://www.thecollector.com/french-revolution-causes/

10 causes

https://www.havefunwithhistory.com/causes-of-the-french-revolution/

And Britannica,

Not one of which cite the wall or property tax.

"Most of those killed during the reign of terror were ordinary people."

So, not like all the other wars and Genocides then.

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Feral Finster's avatar

These is considerable truth in that.

Typically, in the struggle of the king vs. the aristocrats, absolutist monarchs drew their support from the commoners, while it was aristocrats and the emerging middle classes who talked about liberty and rights.

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Stephen Walker's avatar

“lock their power in place forever”

Caitlin, I realise that you’re probably employing a little bit of rhetorical hyperbole, but military robots or no military robots, no empire lasts forever. Even technology doesn’t save them from collapse. Over-reach, too much complexity, hubris, etc., etc.

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charles leone's avatar

William Shakespeare knew the minds of today's Oligarchs and their enablers like Peter Thiel.

He communicated to humanity through his tragedies Hamlet, Macbeth, Othello how a tragedy of ambition, in each case a natural emotion, gets completely out of control and destroys the people who harbor it. Take Macbeth and his ambitious wife, for example, who thought they could murder the King of Scotland and take possession of the crown. Lady Macbeth looked at their bloody hands and believed it was an easy thing to forget a murder. They did not realize 'the torture of the mind', or the fact they would be forced to commit more murders to make themselves safe. But Macbeth's victims remain in their minds.

Think of the Netanyahu's or the Pelosi's for these times. The Cabal is having nightmares that humanity may unite as a force to arrest them.

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David Avenell's avatar

It still manages to amaze me that the writings of of Shakespeare, from over 400 years ago are still relevant in our modern world.

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Jon Olsen's avatar

Examples of the dialectical process at work.

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Jodez's avatar

Hey great comparison! Shakesperean England in it’s corrupted barbarity repeating itself in 2025 didn’t see that coming!!😭

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Jim Prues's avatar

A new operating system for our planet is emerging. The AI bots may end up blowing their masters' heads off...

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Contrarian 33's avatar

'The other day a DJ threw up pictures of the suspected shooter Luigi Mangione during his concert and drew cheers from the crowd — and this was at a Disney-themed show'. Caitlin today

Now that is interesting. Even thinking now on that scene, one doesn’t feel like saying…’now that is sick. What a disgrace’.

Mangione felt that he was justified in his crime.

When do we reach the stage when through lies, constant propaganda and government actions, like the cruel physical treatment of young university students on Campus, when people say “enough is enough”. THIS MUST STOP.

This is an interesting article, Caitlin. I relate to Mangione’s actions. Obviously a lot of others do as well.

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David Baird's avatar

It's the principle of intolerable pressure, whether it's shooting a CEO or an October 7th. That is, you can keep your finger on the suppurating canker that is the bitter misery of health 'care' or Gaza dispossession and mass murder, but there'll be big blowback at some point. Many can see that it might be rough, but it's certainly just.

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David Avenell's avatar

A saying I think is attributed to Howard Zinn:

"The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress."

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Jon Olsen's avatar

"Break on through to the other side" Song, Jim Morrison The Doors

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David Avenell's avatar

So.... the Terminator movies are no longer science fiction? My next thought is: are these things vulnerable to an EMP?

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jamenta's avatar

I have a hard time believing they'll be able to make lands robots viable given how easily they could be to put out of service. Drones however, now if they can just get the American people use to flying SUV size drones overhead ... I wonder if they'll try doing that any time soon?

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David Avenell's avatar

That thing in the picture doesn't look like it could be easily disabled short of a direct missile strike, although a RPG might seriously damage it.

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jamenta's avatar

Does Walmart sell RPGs?

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David Avenell's avatar

I think after Michael Moores' film "Bowling For Columbine" came out, Walmart took ammo off the shelves in all stores.

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Ghostfromthefuture's avatar

The simple answer is yes. Only a matter of strength of the EMP.

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JennyStokes's avatar

What is an EMP?

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Gavin Farrell's avatar

'Electro Magnetic Pulse.' A type of bomb that releases an EMP disrupts electronic and computer systems. Supposedly an EMP is a way to cripple technology systems. It is a proven technology (I believe ordinary nukes create some amount of an EMP), But electronic systems can be hardened to protect against EMP's. EMP's are mostly in action movies and have never been a real battlefield weapon (that should be a clue about their practical application).

And in the post apocalyptic landscape where the proletariat mob is fighting Peter Thiel's robot army, where are we proletariat going to get our EMP bombs/generators from? (Nowhere).

Fortunately however, I believe the AI killer robot hype is a mis-placed fantasy of the rich. Not gonna happen.

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David Avenell's avatar

An EMP would be generated by any nuke detonated as a high altitude air burst.

As for "I believe the AI killer robot hype is a mis-placed fantasy of the rich" the image shown in Caitlins' piece is a picture of one.

Killer bots need not look like Terminators, although China and I believe Japan have both succeeded in producing humanoid robots.

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Rhys Jaggar's avatar

There is only one question that should be put to Peter Thiel:

'Why, given your behaviour on this earth, do you think you have the right to life?'

1. The man has complete contempt for any form of privacy of any human on earth.

2. The man made billions from that contempt.

3. The man thinks he can buy elections, demonstating absolute contempt for the participation of 99.999% of the voting population.

Yet he thinks that the rest of the population should see him as some kind of evangelical gay boy on a mission from a homo-friendly God?

The man may be in need of some lessons in reading rooms not filled with Silicon Valley mafia billionaires.

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Sam's avatar

Killer robots don’t get PTSD from killing civilians like normal humans do.

Poor Thiel. It looks like he’s got Botox revenge going on. If people keep getting Botox injections over time it comes back to bite them by getting skin that’s pasty and looks like your face is melting. Just like Pete's skin looks like now.

Meryl or Celia wrote about this.

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Bruno's avatar

I was wondering what was going on with his face

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