And yes your essence is head over heels in love with “shitlibs”, oligarchs, rapists, Nazis and psychopaths....because they are us in essence... and our essence is the wellspring of Love. They, like us, are unaware, asleep and lost in the world of form and perception.
It has been said that “love thy enemy” means “have no enemies” so no resistance to What Is occurs. This is the power of equanimity, of not spreading the virus of hate, of a lack of awareness.
How much time daily do we spend hating the aforementioned ‘monsters’ ? And how little time do we spend expressing unconditional love toward ‘them’ ? What is the impact?
A well placed moment of anger can turn the tide, too much and the illusion of separation is reinforced. Sometimes the fight needs to feel like a dance with a partner, the ‘monster’ ( whose essence you share) to avoid unintentionally making more monsters.
Human conflict, reactivity and equanimity... it is a challenge to know when to react or stay deeply present ...online or face to face. If it’s hard for those with growing awareness, imagine how difficult it is for the majority that are completely lost in thought and separation. This is where we find our compassion and humility.
You have emphasized being transparent ( no hidden agenda) so as not to be manipulative. The way you have expressed our collective oneness in this piece is more inclusive than before ( the way you express love and include the ‘opponent’ more clearly as being part of us). I’ve been wondering when this would happen and whether it would also effect your tweeting.
It is truly a challenge to stand against depravity and cruelty and injustice without extreme othering.
When we remember there is no ‘ other ‘ and are actually doing battle with ourselves it may be easier to express empathy/ point out our oneness when discussing the enemies which appear.
We want to inform and gather allies against unconscious/ destructive behaviours but we also avoid manipulating by pointing out our oneness with the ‘other’.
As Tolle says, if we had their past, their pain and their level of consciousness we would think and act as they do.
a message given out by Meher Baba during World War II in November 1944.
"In the one undivided and indivisible Ocean of Life, you have, through ignorance, created the pernicious divisions based on sex, race, nationality, religion or community: and you allow these self-created divisions to poison your heart and pervert your relationships. You are already parts of one life, and, as such, brotherhood is not something which is to be brought into existence through laborious efforts, but is the supreme fact, which claims your recognition and wholehearted allegiance as soon as you have the candidness and the courage to face the truth."
Wow! Caitlin, I'm truly impressed and appreciative of your turn to awareness. As a One Vehicle Zen Buddhist, it is exactly what the Zen tradition says. I presume that you have taken to heart some practice of meditation to come to an understanding of the mind-ground this way. I bet you will get some of your fans reacting weirdly negative like they did to Bob Dylan when he left folk for electric rock and roll. _/|\_ Be blessed, take care, and remain true.
So, take notice all of this “decolonize Dharma” character. (He She It) is a perfect illustration of the uselessness of the comments box mode of discussion. If there is no moderator who can cut off ying-yangs like this who keep going and going, anyone with any intelligence just does not want to participate.
I only bother with this thread at all because I want to study the techniques these kinds of dipsticks use to shut down serious discussion. Also, to discern their motives more clearly. The aim is to try to design an internet discussion format in which productive discussions can take place.
The point of any discussion is to determine the truth and validity of things. That means you need participants who are interested in the truth. Dipsticks who have nothing between the ears, but who have to be “right” all the time, have to be removed. In a closed format, that means having a moderator who pulls the plug when some yoyo is oblivious to any refutation.
A serious discussion has a defined question. At a point the question is answered or the participants conclude that there is no answer and drop it. It is not a head butting contest where some donkey thinks (He She It) it has “won” when everybody else is tired of it and drops out.
The most interesting thing is that other people involved with the online discussion do not intervene to tell the donkey to shut up so we can move on to more productive things. This often occurs in face to face, open format discussions, with the disruptor sometimes thrown out of the room.
Of course, in this case the topic is more esoteric. It is about the nature of self and “connectedness”. This has real life implications in cognitive science and psychology. The Buddhist religious view of it has long been demonstrated by neurological research to b incorrect.
There are more useful approaches to the problem. But to discuss them among interested people one has to get past the thought police who lurk on all such forums. The problem with decolonize Dharma is it is a form of religious fanatic.
I am not going to be able to discuss further about self and connection here. It wlll be interesting to see how long Dhipstick prances around like it thinks it has won, after I stop replying on this forum. tr
I've written close to 200 words about the article and posts in this thread ... can you clarify what you mean by "keep going and going" ... or do you just need to vent because your rants are so easily dismantled in so few words? 😉
The time is always now, the answer is always love. And yes, words are not the things they represent. Life is a gazillion times bigger than the word. We are indeed loved, even now...
Your post touched my heart and yearnings. There are cracks appearing with greater frequency in the duality thinking of our modern-postmodern narrative and mythology. A tiny virus did in one year no politician or dominator culture could in their wildest imagination. Everything came to a standstill and humanity was cast into an existential crucible with far-reaching global, historic and universal consequences. Everything is on the table now with a much broader, meaningful critique of capitalism, sexuality, equality, religion and essentially what it means to be human in the earth family. There is no escaping the fact in our hyper-connected world to not notice what we do to others we do to ourselves, hence, separation truly is an illusion. Thank You!
I wish the human species would evolve to no longer produce these arrogant cloud sitter types who proclaim that we are all going to die out if we do not conform to their metaphysical ideas about “separation.” It is a direct evolution from “repent, sinners, or burn in hell!”
PS. The big proof against this idea there is no self separate form everything else, is that it does not work when you try to apply it to ordinary life.
I think our egos are highly adaptive, useful, and we should hang onto them to help us navigate existence together, seeing as we are inhabiting organic primates that evolved the capacity for egos. If by "applying this to ordinary life" you mean the idea of completely giving up our egoic self in everyday interactions then yeah, that's not going to work very well. However, there are more transcendent states of consciousness available where we still possess our sense of separation but can hold that and the more expansive view of our self as part of a greater oneness.
What follows from that is greater empathy and contentedness, qualities that are surely adaptive in a world where competition and an addictive drive for always more power and wealth has brought the world to the brink. I don't consider this a direct evolution from the guilt/shame-based religiousness you describe personally, but I do think there is an underlying relationship there. I think that what Caitlin describes though has much more allowance and understanding for those who don't wish or aren't able to relate to the world in that way. In this view, they are not damned or sinners but merely misguided about how to best achieve satisfaction and joy.
If you feel that holding on to your egoic self and sense of separation serves you, then far be it from me or anyone else to say you need to do anything differently.
Oh, wow! I got a reply to something I posted in the reply box under one of Caitlin's more esoteric posts. So now I will reply to it.
The thing is, though, it is all a bit futile because not of the parties involved are going to change their minds on the basis of what the others post.
One of these days when I have thought enough about it, and heard enough of this "there is no self" nonsense, I will write my best effort at a refutation of it, and be done with it.
I don't know Tim, I feel like I've changed a lot of opinions and viewpoints over the years through online dialogue. It never happens immediately, so neither party ever gets the satisfaction of having "won" the debate, but that's probably for the best.
I wonder why this topic in particular gets so much response? However, I doubt if this guys opinion changing adventures have changed any view points in a positive direction. He's a good argument for not getting into a prolonged interchange with such people. Eventually, you stop wasting your time, or you get hooked into their crap. And you can take this as the signal that I will be making no further response.
So what happened when you tried to apply it to your day-to-day? (You must have given it a shot since you state the proof against "no self" - one of the Three Marks of Existence taught by The Buddha - is that it does not work when you apply it to ordinary life.)
Yeah, it didn't seem like you tried it. And awareness of something like there being no permanent self is not puritanism or fundamentalist by any stretch of the imagination. #sorrynotsorry for refuting your trash talking. 😉
...you give me inspiration to be a better version of myself...thank you.
Yet another little masterpiece.
And yes your essence is head over heels in love with “shitlibs”, oligarchs, rapists, Nazis and psychopaths....because they are us in essence... and our essence is the wellspring of Love. They, like us, are unaware, asleep and lost in the world of form and perception.
It has been said that “love thy enemy” means “have no enemies” so no resistance to What Is occurs. This is the power of equanimity, of not spreading the virus of hate, of a lack of awareness.
How much time daily do we spend hating the aforementioned ‘monsters’ ? And how little time do we spend expressing unconditional love toward ‘them’ ? What is the impact?
A well placed moment of anger can turn the tide, too much and the illusion of separation is reinforced. Sometimes the fight needs to feel like a dance with a partner, the ‘monster’ ( whose essence you share) to avoid unintentionally making more monsters.
Human conflict, reactivity and equanimity... it is a challenge to know when to react or stay deeply present ...online or face to face. If it’s hard for those with growing awareness, imagine how difficult it is for the majority that are completely lost in thought and separation. This is where we find our compassion and humility.
You have emphasized being transparent ( no hidden agenda) so as not to be manipulative. The way you have expressed our collective oneness in this piece is more inclusive than before ( the way you express love and include the ‘opponent’ more clearly as being part of us). I’ve been wondering when this would happen and whether it would also effect your tweeting.
It is truly a challenge to stand against depravity and cruelty and injustice without extreme othering.
When we remember there is no ‘ other ‘ and are actually doing battle with ourselves it may be easier to express empathy/ point out our oneness when discussing the enemies which appear.
We want to inform and gather allies against unconscious/ destructive behaviours but we also avoid manipulating by pointing out our oneness with the ‘other’.
As Tolle says, if we had their past, their pain and their level of consciousness we would think and act as they do.
Fantastic post. Good dharma talk. Rather psychedelic as well. May you be well, may you be peaceful and at ease. 🙏✌
a message given out by Meher Baba during World War II in November 1944.
"In the one undivided and indivisible Ocean of Life, you have, through ignorance, created the pernicious divisions based on sex, race, nationality, religion or community: and you allow these self-created divisions to poison your heart and pervert your relationships. You are already parts of one life, and, as such, brotherhood is not something which is to be brought into existence through laborious efforts, but is the supreme fact, which claims your recognition and wholehearted allegiance as soon as you have the candidness and the courage to face the truth."
Wow! Caitlin, I'm truly impressed and appreciative of your turn to awareness. As a One Vehicle Zen Buddhist, it is exactly what the Zen tradition says. I presume that you have taken to heart some practice of meditation to come to an understanding of the mind-ground this way. I bet you will get some of your fans reacting weirdly negative like they did to Bob Dylan when he left folk for electric rock and roll. _/|\_ Be blessed, take care, and remain true.
beautifully put, caitlin. truly profound.
Thank you for the article, it was helpful. You are as helpful as Alan Watts, when He was helpful.
So, take notice all of this “decolonize Dharma” character. (He She It) is a perfect illustration of the uselessness of the comments box mode of discussion. If there is no moderator who can cut off ying-yangs like this who keep going and going, anyone with any intelligence just does not want to participate.
I only bother with this thread at all because I want to study the techniques these kinds of dipsticks use to shut down serious discussion. Also, to discern their motives more clearly. The aim is to try to design an internet discussion format in which productive discussions can take place.
The point of any discussion is to determine the truth and validity of things. That means you need participants who are interested in the truth. Dipsticks who have nothing between the ears, but who have to be “right” all the time, have to be removed. In a closed format, that means having a moderator who pulls the plug when some yoyo is oblivious to any refutation.
A serious discussion has a defined question. At a point the question is answered or the participants conclude that there is no answer and drop it. It is not a head butting contest where some donkey thinks (He She It) it has “won” when everybody else is tired of it and drops out.
The most interesting thing is that other people involved with the online discussion do not intervene to tell the donkey to shut up so we can move on to more productive things. This often occurs in face to face, open format discussions, with the disruptor sometimes thrown out of the room.
Of course, in this case the topic is more esoteric. It is about the nature of self and “connectedness”. This has real life implications in cognitive science and psychology. The Buddhist religious view of it has long been demonstrated by neurological research to b incorrect.
There are more useful approaches to the problem. But to discuss them among interested people one has to get past the thought police who lurk on all such forums. The problem with decolonize Dharma is it is a form of religious fanatic.
I am not going to be able to discuss further about self and connection here. It wlll be interesting to see how long Dhipstick prances around like it thinks it has won, after I stop replying on this forum. tr
I've written close to 200 words about the article and posts in this thread ... can you clarify what you mean by "keep going and going" ... or do you just need to vent because your rants are so easily dismantled in so few words? 😉
"The teaching of thusness has been intimately communicated by buddhas and ancestors ... to depict it in literary form is to stain it with defilement"
People of European ancestry that try to describe the Dharma causes harm.
Please just sit, read the Buddha's teachings, and let the suttas guide the way.
When people of European ancestry offer their take on Buddha's teachings, it is ALWAYS appropriation.
The time is always now, the answer is always love. And yes, words are not the things they represent. Life is a gazillion times bigger than the word. We are indeed loved, even now...
Your post touched my heart and yearnings. There are cracks appearing with greater frequency in the duality thinking of our modern-postmodern narrative and mythology. A tiny virus did in one year no politician or dominator culture could in their wildest imagination. Everything came to a standstill and humanity was cast into an existential crucible with far-reaching global, historic and universal consequences. Everything is on the table now with a much broader, meaningful critique of capitalism, sexuality, equality, religion and essentially what it means to be human in the earth family. There is no escaping the fact in our hyper-connected world to not notice what we do to others we do to ourselves, hence, separation truly is an illusion. Thank You!
I wish the human species would evolve to no longer produce these arrogant cloud sitter types who proclaim that we are all going to die out if we do not conform to their metaphysical ideas about “separation.” It is a direct evolution from “repent, sinners, or burn in hell!”
PS. The big proof against this idea there is no self separate form everything else, is that it does not work when you try to apply it to ordinary life.
I think our egos are highly adaptive, useful, and we should hang onto them to help us navigate existence together, seeing as we are inhabiting organic primates that evolved the capacity for egos. If by "applying this to ordinary life" you mean the idea of completely giving up our egoic self in everyday interactions then yeah, that's not going to work very well. However, there are more transcendent states of consciousness available where we still possess our sense of separation but can hold that and the more expansive view of our self as part of a greater oneness.
What follows from that is greater empathy and contentedness, qualities that are surely adaptive in a world where competition and an addictive drive for always more power and wealth has brought the world to the brink. I don't consider this a direct evolution from the guilt/shame-based religiousness you describe personally, but I do think there is an underlying relationship there. I think that what Caitlin describes though has much more allowance and understanding for those who don't wish or aren't able to relate to the world in that way. In this view, they are not damned or sinners but merely misguided about how to best achieve satisfaction and joy.
If you feel that holding on to your egoic self and sense of separation serves you, then far be it from me or anyone else to say you need to do anything differently.
Oh, wow! I got a reply to something I posted in the reply box under one of Caitlin's more esoteric posts. So now I will reply to it.
The thing is, though, it is all a bit futile because not of the parties involved are going to change their minds on the basis of what the others post.
One of these days when I have thought enough about it, and heard enough of this "there is no self" nonsense, I will write my best effort at a refutation of it, and be done with it.
I don't know Tim, I feel like I've changed a lot of opinions and viewpoints over the years through online dialogue. It never happens immediately, so neither party ever gets the satisfaction of having "won" the debate, but that's probably for the best.
I wonder why this topic in particular gets so much response? However, I doubt if this guys opinion changing adventures have changed any view points in a positive direction. He's a good argument for not getting into a prolonged interchange with such people. Eventually, you stop wasting your time, or you get hooked into their crap. And you can take this as the signal that I will be making no further response.
So what happened when you tried to apply it to your day-to-day? (You must have given it a shot since you state the proof against "no self" - one of the Three Marks of Existence taught by The Buddha - is that it does not work when you apply it to ordinary life.)
I am not a Buddhist. People proseletizing their own religions in indirect ways is no more acceptable for Buddhists than for any Christian group.
It is easily observed that people trying to act out various forms of religious puritanism get nowhere with it.
Yeah, it didn't seem like you tried it. And awareness of something like there being no permanent self is not puritanism or fundamentalist by any stretch of the imagination. #sorrynotsorry for refuting your trash talking. 😉
Then everything we look upon is a mental label. And why consider anything a problem? It just is what it is...! Capitalism is a mental label.
Your comment is textbook spiritual bypassing.
thank you! so hopeful most needed rn
Remember who we are and we are loved no matter what happens.