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Vin LoPresti's avatar

"The west is still a savage and murderous civilization that hasn’t transcended its barbarity in the way it thinks it has."

For me, this is the key truth in your piece, Caitlin. I see the empty buildings, the shuttered storefronts in my working class neighborhood, occupied by rodents and roaches, while the homeless relocate from a street spot where large boulders have appeared to destroy the flat gravel site for their tents. I see depressed forlorn individuals in Native dress huddling in shade near the entrance of the health center that will provide them at least a modicum of care. The barbarity against these citizens screams at me every time I leave my house, slow murder transpiring on the streets around me, paralleling the rapid extinction of Palestinians --- and Afghanis, Libyans, Iraqis, Vietnamese, and all the others.

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DLehman's avatar

I recently watched an interview with Benjamin Studebaker about these topics in his book, The Chronic Crisis of American Democracy: The Way is Shut and everything that we are seeing around us by way of civilisations and economic decline is outlined.

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Vin LoPresti's avatar

The premise of the book is chilling, yet difficult to refute. Look at the way Americans behave, the casual way they throw their trash over the streets of their cities, and other symptoms of a society of individuals that doesn't really respect itself or its physical milieu, and one can see the empire and its faux duh-mock-crazy crumbling in real time. Quite disheartening to an old codger like me, who once hoped for better.

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Realist's avatar

What the hell do your comments have to do with the SCOTUS decision? The decision was limited to presidential acts that are allowed under present law. Not criminal acts. People may consider some presidential acts criminal, but the solution is to legislate changes in law.

I am no fan of Trump, but the charges against him are purely political. There are plenty of excellent reasons for not wanting another Trump presidency, but a third-world coup is not the answer.

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Vin LoPresti's avatar

What the hell does your response have to do with anything in this thread pointing at the underlying rot. Simple: Sick non-transcendent civilization (Caitlin) = sick institutions. SCOTUS is as corrupt and un-salvageable as the remainder of the failed "American experiment". About which, like Trump, I no longer give a flying fuck. I'll die detesting my country, its institutions and all the self-serving motherfuckers—spawned and fostered by those corrupted institutions—who never served anyone but their own goddamned egos.

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John Turcot's avatar

Vin... "flying Fucks" belong to William Rese, a Canuck prof... No touch! The rest of your narrative resonates.... even motherfuckers...

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Vin LoPresti's avatar

Interesting. Thanks. I don't recall when FF entered my vernacular, but not as a child in NYC, so must've been at uni; perhaps some Canadian student brought it to my notice. I'm a sucker for alliteration.

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Realist's avatar

"What the hell does your response have to do with anything in this thread pointing at the underlying rot."

The title of the article is about the SCOTUS decision.

"I'll die detesting my country, its institutions and all the self-serving motherfuckers—spawned and fostered by those corrupted institutions—who never served anyone but their own goddamned egos."

What have you done to change it???

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Vin LoPresti's avatar

Screw the title, the essence pointed the finger at the rot implicit in the culture. If you want to be short-sighted, that's your decision.

I've done a lot more than you, I'd wager. The most important thing I could possibly do! I taught people how to think fucking critically for 45 years. For example, when COVID was shoved down their throats, most of my former students saw the bullshit and refused to swallow it. Conveying that kind of ability to the next generation to see through propaganda is about as priceless a service as I could've rendered.

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Realist's avatar

"I've done a lot more than you, I'd wager."

How could you possibly know that? You are an obnoxious, way overconfident little fuck.

" I taught people how to think fucking critically for 45 years."

That sounds like how an intelligent college professor would describe his work. LOL

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Vin LoPresti's avatar

Okay, We're done. I can live with what I did as an college educator. It was honest and there are scores of students out there who would opine that I elevated their young lives by opening their vistas as thinkers. You don't think that's important societal service? Fuck you. Period.

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John Turcot's avatar

Realist... If Vin did anything at all, it was to identify the real problem of humanity... the homeless and the reasons why we a species have failed to remedy it. It goes deeper, but suffice it to add that if we don't get our act together sooner than later, we ay just be homeless, all of us.

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Jane Baker's avatar

It's not about Trump. It's to protect Biden. So he doesn't die in jail. What a satisfying thought. I hope he'll have Dr Jill in there to care for him in her own unique way.

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John Turcot's avatar

Realist... Vin pointed out the barbarity towards the poor, ... Yhose are criminal acts, in spades...

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martin's avatar

scotus decision could be (quoting joy in hk):

'He, along with the entire Niden administration, should be charged and arrested under 18 U.S. Code § 1091 is the statute, the Genocide Convention in US criminal law.' he's immune too now. they know how to cooperate.

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Realist's avatar

"scotus decision could be (quoting joy in hk):"

The title of the article is about the SCOTUS decision.

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martin's avatar

i understood that the scotus decision says presidents are immune from persecution when they break the law while doing presidential stuff (like ok-ing arms shipments to a country that's doing genocide). i don't think that scotus particularly likes trump, but that they are using this to set a precedent. if joy in hk tries to get genocide joe before a judge, joe will point to the scotus decision. scotus, genocide joe, trump (prosecuted for the very least thing to find in his tenure), they all got eachothers back.

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Realist's avatar

"i understood that the scotus decision says presidents are immune from persecution when they break the law while doing presidential stuff (like ok-ing arms shipments to a country that's doing genocide)."

What U.S. law was broken???

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martin's avatar

joy in hk mentioned something about '18 us code § 1091'. i think it's probably how the us subscribed to the genocide convention and how ratified international treaties are the supreme law, or something like that. but empire and (international) law don't mix anyways. (btw it's about biden taking advantage of the precedent).

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russian_bot's avatar

Great! The needle finally skipped so no longer at "destroy the deep state". Now it's "the title of the article".

But the record is still broken, "realist".

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John Turcot's avatar

Vin... You've identified the real problem... when everyone can see what you see, the barbarity of the human kind, the world will be able to stop all genocides... until then, any one of the nuclear arsenal states may just about be ready to end human existence... In the meantime, all relax!

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Feral Finster's avatar

Any time I hear a liberal say "it's complicated" or that accursed word "nuanced" it's invariably some Squealer-like attempt to get me not to believe my own eyes and nose and ears.

Like when a human male, caught in the act of porking your best friend *and* your sister says "Honey, I can explain!"

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DLehman's avatar

I hear ya, Feral.. it’s sickening!

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William Dennett's avatar

🎵"It wasn't me!" 🎵🤪

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DLehman's avatar

Love it, Caitlin! I agree that we are seeing The Final Solution for the Palestinians unfold right before our eyes and the only thing a latte sipping western liberal can say is, ‘it’s complicated’.. or worse! Hasbara taglines like ‘Israel has the right to defend itself’, etc. not for once making the otherwise simple and logical connection that this is the inheritance of a murderous empire that has managed to sell itself more like a religion than anything.. I’ve lived far and wide around the world and the one common theme is that humans are capable of self delusion on an industrial scale.

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Susan Lippman's avatar

Thank you for your trenchant article. When have criminal presidents, including Sleepy Joe, ever have been punished or prosecuted for their crimes? To my knowledge, never!

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JennyStokes's avatar

Nixon..teeny weeny bit.

Clinton...." "

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gypsy33's avatar

Dubya…

Instead of being hanged for his war crimes, he’s declaring himself an “artist” (laughable) and producing paintings worthy of the landfill.

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JennyStokes's avatar

I didn't know this.........sounds like a happy man with NO guilt whatsoever! Just another amoral shit.

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gypsy33's avatar

Of course he is Jenny!

You can add this to the long list of everything I detest about this subhuman. As a lifelong artist, it disgusts me when someone buys a set of fingerpaints and declares himself an “artist” 😂

PS Hope you’re feeling better now Jenny 🙂

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JennyStokes's avatar

No..........going down and down into the murky waters of depression which is not too surprising. Poor Martin (husband) not very good with all this shit from me! Bronchitis gone but have decided to give up smoking which is AWFUL. Not a good time to do this.

xxxx

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gypsy33's avatar

Jenny darlin I’m sorry you’re feelin down. If I can help, I will; I’m kind of an expert on the subject 😕

Perhaps nicotine deprivation is not the best course for you right now. I think you need to deal with your depression first. Did you know that 60% of people with depression are smokers?

Nicotine deprivation is never in my cards, lol. Nicotine and caffeine power my life. My doctor’s given up on me.

I’d never be able to produce any art if I quit; I chain smoke when I’m drawing or painting.

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russian_bot's avatar

How does his stack up again Hunter's?

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gypsy33's avatar

Why do you bother replying to me?

I ain’t listenin’.

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russian_bot's avatar

My question was specific to art as I know nothing about it. Are you familiar with Hunter Biden's work? It sold for a lot of money. Helped with his legal expenses. Must be good.

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John Orban's avatar

Two words describe modern art…”money” “laundering.”

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mois78's avatar

If you tell an American that the US military has bases in Syria near their oil wells? And USA is stealing Syria's oil? Nobody will believe our moral painted military is STEAL the oil of poor helpless country? Nobody knows that our painted moral military were in Afghanistan to grow and sell drugs?

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russian_bot's avatar

They do and they're fine with it. They're only upset when someone like Trump blurts it out "we're in Syria for oil". Or someone like Assange produces videos of deliberate massacring of civilians.

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Serial Misfit's avatar

And as soon as fentanyl became a more lucrative goldmine far easier to control, they just pulled out, leaving behind a country in shambles, half of the Afghanis sick junkies, and religious fundamentalists running the show. Psychos...

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Dani Bruflodt's avatar

I laughed OUT loud when this title popped up on my phone. Shit is so far gone all I can do is laugh at this point.

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carily myers's avatar

Join the club!

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Klonda56's avatar

“….. I’m still getting liberals doing the “ARE YOU A DOCTOR??” thing when I make the observation that Biden plainly has dementia. ..”

Stop calling them liberals.

No one who believes the same cabal of warmongering crooks should keep exchanging power, is plausible holder of liberal values.

Joe Biden has been in public office since like 1975. It’s 2024 and his zombie bodie is better qualified than the other 300 million Americans? I mean come on.

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Feral Finster's avatar

I am not a doctor, but I can tell when someone has been shot.

I suppose this raises the question of why liberals have such a raging and most unseemly hard-on for experts and expert opinion, but the answer is obvious- Team D is the political manifestation of the class consciousness of the PMC.

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gypsy33's avatar

Hi Klondike

My brother IS an MD and heartily concurs that Genocide Joe clearly exhibits the symptoms of dementia.

This is not his fault. But why there are still folks that believe he’d make a dandy POTUS leaves me scratching my head.

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Jane Baker's avatar

Dr Jill enjoys being President of The United States of America.

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carily myers's avatar

lol, LIKE

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Patrick Powers's avatar

"Stop calling them liberals."

The media has the power to Orwellize this term and has done just that.

https://science1arts2and3politics.substack.com/p/the-orwellization-of-liberalism

Just don't use Orwellized words. Discuss specific issues instead.

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russian_bot's avatar

Joe Biden calls himself a Catholic. Is he?

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Patrick Powers's avatar

Who cares?

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russian_bot's avatar

Not me. Just pointing out uselessness of labels.

And I know he isn't.

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Jim S's avatar

Thank You Caitlin

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Scipio's avatar

Gaza is the 2024 version of the Nazi razing of the Warsaw Ghetto, but far worse. Washington DC is fully onboard with the atrocity.

We have well over 1 million + Ukrainian KIA/WIA. Again, all controlled by DC.

America is dead to me. Seems strange to say it, given that I was a huge fan of America until just a few years ago.

No more.

In fact, I hope America suffers. And I'm sorry, while I don't believe for a second that 81 million of you voted for the sick POS that's the Pretend President, you Yanks have done nothing to stop him & his fellow criminals, either.

So, I hope you suffer, too.

You all deserve it.

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Lisa Savage's avatar

Done nothing? Not to brag but please consider reading my collected reports of what people all over the U.S. are doing & have been doing. And will continue doing until this regime falls. https://open.substack.com/pub/went2thebridge/p/general-dynamics-execs-neighbors

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gypsy33's avatar

Great job Lisa!

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Chang Chokaski's avatar

Well done Lisa Savage! I wish more people had the courage (and morality) to do what you do. Thank you!

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Michael's avatar

Congratulations! You’ve successfully pissed off people not even vaguely associated with Israel and turned them off to the cause for peace. This is exactly what they want. Keep the peasants fighting

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Lisa Savage's avatar

Every U.S. taxpayer is associated with Israel, because we pay for the bombs.

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Realist's avatar

"Every U.S. taxpayer is associated with Israel, because we pay for the bombs."

So, what are you doing to stop it?

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Lisa Savage's avatar

If this is a sincere question, you can read my substack for answers.

https://open.substack.com/pub/went2thebridge

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Patrick Powers's avatar

He ain't a readin' feller.

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Realist's avatar

"If this is a sincere question, you can read my substack for answers"

Whatever it is you are doing, it isn't working.

Revolution.

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martin's avatar

team up with code pink and medea benjamin. i won't deride their actions either. gj

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DLehman's avatar

I understand your anger but I’ve seen so many Americans held captive by their own government.. reforms don’t work, neither does voting or protesting, really.. revolution is probably the only solution but is bloody and violent (think of the French/American revolutions) but dare I say the worse it gets the more likely that it would lead to a reset (either positive or negative).

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JennyStokes's avatar

With respect Diana. How did the US get where it is?

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DLehman's avatar

What everyone on this forum has been saying, through its genocidal past..

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Michael's avatar

What have you done to stop it? Maybe you should be held accountable too? It’s like wishing Netanyahu’s dog suffers due to its complicity. We’re all pets. We can bark and growl but in the end master does what he wants

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Jul 2
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Realist's avatar

"Bds. I am not giving my money to those sick fucks so they can keep killing children. Thats the least I can do."

You're not paying your taxes???

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Jul 2
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Realist's avatar

"Unfortunately i cant help where my taxes are going in these parts. But I can control is my actual spending money."

Fine, but you are still supporting the Deep State.

Revolution.

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russian_bot's avatar

Are taxes voluntary?

When you drive, do you obey the rules of the road? Why?

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Oracle's avatar

Wishing evil snd violence against civilians is violent and dangerous rhetoric. This is Zionist rhetoric.

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ANITA WOOD's avatar

I’m a 62 yr old American and I say let it burn. Maybe we can rise from the ashes with sane, humane people and change the entire system.

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California Girl's avatar

When has that ever happened? And where?

Every time some group thinks surely it cannot get worse, and we will take steps to prevent it getting worse, sure enough - it gets worse. Some day maybe we will give the Nazis a break - as Israel is determined to out do them.

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mois78's avatar

What did the Bitish do to stop the flood of Africans, and Arabs? They destroyed the UK.

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JennyStokes's avatar

Hello. Hello is there anyone in there............can you hear me? mois78

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Robert Billyard's avatar

The presidents spend too much time doing the criminality of the empire while holding the populations of the West as slaves to the empire's global criminality.

No the West will not determine the future of the world. The East has consolidated an anti-hegemonic pact as the West refuses to face reality and marginalizes itself.

Too many presidents thought they could walk on water, while building sand castles below the tide line.

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Patrick Powers's avatar

Right. I don't see that the USA has any strategy other than "Cause a lot of trouble and hope that it works to our advantage."

They are getting beat at their own game so they are trying to kick over the chessboard.

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Diane Engelhardt's avatar

Both Joe Biden and Donald Trump personify beautifully what the US has become: Biden is a ghost living in a foggy, fictitious past and Trump a huckster peddling his self-made reality. Both belong in an institution for the criminally insane.

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ANITA WOOD's avatar

Caitlin, you have been one of my heroes for years. You tell the truth no matter how brutal it is. You have helped me deprogram over the years and I owe you a debt of gratitude for that.

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Robert the Skeptic's avatar

--I am a doctor, and my mother died of dementia. When I look at Joe Biden, what I see is dementia.

--“If Donald Trump wins, America might become a tyrannical force for evil!” This statement is correct as far as it goes. The United States is already a force for tyranny on the international stage. However, at home Americans still enjoy a modicum of personal freedom, even though it's clear that the country is run by oligarchs, corporations and the MIC. I like to call it "soft fascim." If Trump gets elected, there will be nothing soft about the brand of fascism that he is likely to introduce. It will be hard and nasty, and he is completely open about his plans for this. That is why the outcome of the upcoming election is important to those of us who live in the United States. From the vantage point of Australia, this difference may not seem to matter much, but from inside the belly of the beast, it surely does.

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russian_bot's avatar

"That is why the outcome of the upcoming election is important to those of us who live in the United States." - right, so what you want is continue living in comfort while your country bombs the rest of the world to oblivion.

Selfish narcissist bitches you are, but what's new?

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Robert the Skeptic's avatar

Did you take a stupid pill today, or are you always like this?

If you had read what I wrote, you would have seen that I called the United States a "force for tyranny." Is there something in that statement that leads you to think that I might be fine with my country bombing the world into oblivion? Be that as it may, I do happen to reside in the US, as do my entire family and all of my friends, and that being the case, I think it would be nice not to have to live under Trump's fascist boot heel. I hope you can comprehend why that might be so.

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russian_bot's avatar

I'll try once more to be as clear as I can, so concentrate: you, as an exceptional American, want to continue living in luxury - that is, undisturbed - while your country bombs the hell out of the rest of the world.

Whereas the rest of the world wants you - the exceptional ones - to fucking wake up finally! If it takes Trump to make you lift your ass and do something, then so be it.

Is it clearer now?

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Robert the Skeptic's avatar

Nope, you’re still being stupid. I don’t need a President Trump to make me actively oppose US foreign policy. I already do that. And why are you assuming that I live in oblivious luxury? Unless you work for the for the NSA, you know nothing about me.

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russian_bot's avatar

Let's say you indeed "actively oppose US foreign policy". Obviously, it doesn't amount to shit. Heck, Aaron Bushnell burning himself alive hasn't achieved anything in real terms - the US is still doing evil, full blast, with no Trump in the WH.

Now, let's say Trump arrives and does fascist stuff so it's not just you, but many others, majority even, get a real kick in the ass. And not just morally, but physically somehow. Something amounting to the draft for the rich kids during Vietnam.

Now are you getting it?

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Robert the Skeptic's avatar

So you want Americans to suffer for the sins of their leaders. I can understand that on some level, but I would prefer that my government change for the better. That, however, does not seem likely, especially if Trump and his fascist Republican Party gain complete control of the government. Do you think that they will shut down the American Empire Project? How naive.

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martin's avatar

well, hubbubble humans proved that they can't be bothered by a genocide and nuclear armageddon looming on the perifery. they did not stand up. maybe they'll stand up to trump? i think there's lot's of people outside the us that care about the election, but especially about what comes after.

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K_L_Elsayed's avatar

America has a Jekyll and Hyde problem right now. You're right that it's a "shit or get off the pot" moment for the US on the world stage. We're absolute hypocrites when it comes to peace, love, & brotherhood. We talk about it as we point our weapons in your face. Basically America is at the bully stage of global elevation. We agitate others to fight our dirty wars (which we've imagined and created). We're excellent students of Great Britain.

Unfortunately the people of Gaza are still being starved, bombed, shot, crushed by tanks, grabbed a tortured, the list goes on and on. How this will end I have no idea. There's so many independent components swirling around that could change this situation. Israel could have a civil war, their government could collapse, and so on. All I know is that little information is getting out from Gaza now. Israel is hoping people forget... But we won't. We're waiting.

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David Korabell's avatar

After the Supreme Court decision - I just said "Now they'll have to follow the rule of law - poor people go to jail, rich people go wherever they please"

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jamenta's avatar

Pretty much been the case for some time.

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Marquis's avatar

The fake outrage by liberals is because it is Trump. Like the children in cages by Obama, but it was Trump. Or the illegal mass surveillance under Obama, or the bombing of many countries. I mean we should free all former US presidents guily of crimes...free them now...who are they and what prisons are they in?? lol The supreme court did the obvious, it stated the truth...Former presidents are immune from crimes.

Who cares if Biden has dementia? It is the obvious point he has proven to suck at being president. No medical analysis needed.I mean, really...People want him or Trump as president? What precedent is this? The one where it really doesn't matter who you vote for...

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GenEarly's avatar

Discernment of the Supreme Court decision:

https://open.substack.com/pub/coffeeandcovid/p/devastating-tuesday-july-2-2024-c

and there are No Perfect System, Races, or Individuals.

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