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Vin LoPresti's avatar

You smashed me, rocked me, hit my most vulnerable spot with that painting of the detested pumped-up oligarch Musk -- with perfect arrogant expression! My vitriol for the man is exceeded by that for no one else, not even US feckless pols. For me, Musk symbolizes the stupidity of the everyday American jerkwater fool, who wants to idolize the power of "free-enterprise". Problematically, these folks are educated by atherosclerotic professors who cling to academic models of "achievement" that include absurd metrics, which put the critical education of their students' minds at a low priority, metrics that often elevate really good scientists, but just as often uplift charlatans like Tony Fauci. Until educators detach themselves from such traditional BS models and truly tease open some original student thinking that's un-enslaved to such metrics, the "stunted millionaire" delusionals in America and elsewhere will jump through hoops for these sociopaths.

And we see what that has brought us.

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Joy in HK fiFP's avatar

I think you might find this recent video from "The Majority Report," very interesting. It brings another, and very disturbing, perspective on what is going on with the DOGE bros. One that I had not paid enough attention to previously, but I will from now on:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFVgGamrWLg

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Vin LoPresti's avatar

Thanks, Joy.

Ooof. Just from the title and the first few minutes this sounds like skin-crawl stuff, that unfortunately wouldn't surprise me all that much.

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Feral Finster's avatar

The problem is not capitalism (although capitalism has its own problems).

The problem is power.

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jboegs's avatar

Capitalism is incompatible with democracy. Always has been. Always will be.

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pete king's avatar

Feral, I beg to differ. The basic philosophy of Capitalism is to make as much money as you can, any way you can. MBA's are taught to do this without regard to Law, humanity, or morality, other than learning to push the boundaries and limits of each to fulfill the agenda. Capitalism has unfortunately evolved to gradually dismiss any social, legal or moral "obligations" that were exercised by early more innocent, Capitalist. Now, if it doesn't make money, it's irrelevant. We have been gradually brainwashed by corporate titans to believe it is acceptable, when in reality, it will be what brings our society's downfall. Cheers.

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russian_bot's avatar

So what is the term for what Adam Smith wrote about? Since capitalism is a dirty word (like communism, I guess) invented by Marx per Caitlin.

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pete king's avatar

"Dirty word"... maybe. Or just another flawed philosophy. Personally, I think if some sort of moral clause was injected into Capitalism it could be a decent way to go, much like religions (Zakat). But, it's all about interpretation and there being evil among us who will do evil, it is up to society and the philosophy, to maintain the boundaries. Without such... well, it's unfolding before our eyes... Cheers.

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Angelina's avatar

The moral clauses were injected in Capitalism by "force" - like anti-trust laws, and 8-hr day, and off weekends and health insurances payments for the workers, paid vacation, sick time, life insurance, pension, etc. Only lately, it's being all eroded more and more, as companies are being amalgamated and more powerful.

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Feral Finster's avatar

One can have all those things, without capitalism.

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Angelina's avatar

How, exactly?

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Feral Finster's avatar

Even if one takes a very broad view of what is "capitalism", it's not as if, say, Cultural Revolution era China were devoid of persons hungry for power.

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Angelina's avatar

Hmm - How do you know that "Cultural Revolution era China were devoid of persons hungry for power?" The whole idea of imposing your own will and "vision" for the masses' supposed "benefit," implies hunger for power to do so. It's no different from the Bosheviks' claims that they "with an iron fist push the masses into happiness."

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Feral Finster's avatar

There were sociopaths in Cultural Revolution era China, but precious little "capitalism ".

That is precisely my point.

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Angelina's avatar

@ pete king - MBA's are the most ridiculous degree ever existed. You can't just manage "everything" you're thrown in to "manage." The managers should arise from within their own field, ideally from the ground floor up, knowing the ins and outs of their industry, not being the imposters as MBA's are, who run the Excel spreadsheets like a crazy man with a gun, not understanding the content.

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Lukas Bauer's avatar

The true reason for the popularity of capitalism, why all our "elites" support it so staunchly, is precisely that capitalism is so perfectly suited for amassing unlimited and total power and control without the tiniest shred of responsibility and accountability.

Power that is not only far greater and all-encompassing than that wielded by any elites in premodern history but also obscured, basically invisible and thus even more unassailable.

Capitalism is the most perfect system ever devised by power obsessed psychopaths for power obsessed psychopaths.

So it's both and there is no contradiction.

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includeMeOut's avatar

Under the regime of monopoly finance Capital what you describe is a distinction without a difference and the current economic system is shredding the life supporting biosphere itself.

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Chang Chokaski's avatar

>>"The problem is power."

Well, that's like saying - 'humans breathe oxygen". Power (in any context including various non-human species) creates issues - but that may be more evolutionary rather than as a result of something specific (like money for instance).

So, yes - power creates problems - but it is there with us for the end of time (and I'm not aware of anything than can change this).

Rather, EACH system (eg. Capitalism, Communism, whatever) creates (and solves) many problems. Many problems are also intersectional (i.e. Capitalism in different contexts).

BUT, Capitalism has unintentionally evolved to create MORE problems than solutions (and exponentially growing ones and 'brittle and exploitative feedback loops'. Socialism has never been allowed to flourish, and the world has yet to see Communism (which I believe is still in the theoretical stages and usually needs to be preceded by Socialism).

So, Capitalism IS currently 'THE PROBLEM' globally - swallowing the whole world (including the planet). No other economic/political system has been as DESTRUCTIVE to planet earth/biosphere/biodiversity/climate/resource depletion/etc. as Capitalism has.

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Frank Sailor's avatar

Power is the key and not the problem, it's only a problem in capitalism because capitalism has the incentive and the ingrained law to monopolize the means of production and distribution.

That's why the power needs to get over from the capitalist class to the workers class that in fact is doing the production and distribution but not participating in the fruits of it.

To me it's mind boggling how many people are not wishing to see things change to their advantage but only hope that the next 'Lord/Capital-owner' will be a little milder and less cruel.

The neo-liberal agenda has sold a lie to the people since the 1970's, swallowed willingly and pushed the self-exploitation and self optimalisation to a sick level.

Workers organizations have been demolished or their leaders co opted, people happily went into debt to become homeowners, when in fact the bank is the home owner.

And all those millions that live on food stamps or paycheck to paycheck or work multiple jobs and even then struggle to make ends meet are either stupid, lazy or made wrong decisions is so anti human, it's simply disgusting.

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Angelina's avatar

Frank Sailor - have you forgotten that Communism tends to centralize everything, including the means of production and distribution? And, if in capitalism, at least there are anti-trust/monopoly laws, (not to debate their effectiveness but sheer fact of their existence) and your “…power needs to get over from the capitalist class to the workers class” - it’s exactly what was done in the USSR, which was built as the “workers and peasants’” state with Lenin’s ambition that “even a scullery maid could govern the state,” and some, God help us, tried:-) Given the power, the workers turn as corrupt and self-serving, as the managerial class.

If you ever listened to Sonar21 - Larry Johnson, he recalls his father and his friends, who were workers (in capitalism), who had shares of their factories , retirement funds, pension, etc., they’re by retirement, the local upper-middle class, but it was all gone with this crazy “outsourcing” scheme. Ever thought what happened to the highly skilled workers from the rust belt of the US? Older ones got retirements, but younger began to work for McDonalds

In the US, there are still trade unions, often self-serving, who had seen them fighting when everything was/is being outsourced anywhere but here? Plus, there is the so-called “professional class” - which has no privileges of the unions, and the rule is “work till the work is done, and then take your time off,” which never comes:-)

I think your nostalgia is blinding you. Yes, there were pretty good things about communism/socialism, but the tendency for abuse was bigger than in the “normal” capitalism per se.

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Frank Sailor's avatar

My dear Angelina,

I am a little reluctant to answer you on that one because as much as we seem to share common ground in the basics, we differ in the conclusions.

It doesn't feel right to lecture you or anyone else in that case and that's why I won't do it.

For me it's not really nostalgia. I am realistic enough to acknowledge that there is no way back in my life time, we blew it and I still have intense discussions with my parents and other people from that era about where it went wrong and why.

We had a historic chance to give the working class a better life, make sure of the promises that the idea of communism and humanity had. We blew it, no doubt about it but I do not agree that we blew it due to systemic faults of the idea.

We blew it because of many subjective reasons but also objective reasons that we did not gave the attention that they would have needed.

But to rip it out of context is not fair- we were countries that were down, totally down after terrible wars, countries against a capitalist might, financially and in soft power, that we had no resources to meet.

Plus the people that had spend often a long time in prisons, KZ and underground resistance, mentally not ready for this other life because they had seen their friends and comrades slaughtered, burnt in the ovens, beaten to pulp, victims of medical experiments that only a sick mind can even come up with.

My own grandfather went through that for 9 of the 12 years.

And then you come and tell me that the work was never done? To them working in peace without the fear of another Bombing alarm was a form of freedom.

I could go on with the tricks and sabotage and the economic strangulation of our eastern countries, the fact that the west was deliberately denying our money to become a convertible valuta etc.

I know you mean well but if I try to paint the whole picture here it would become a book, you know that.

One last thing, I was a young man, 17 years old and I opposed the life I had, I opposed my parents, my grandparents and many others.

This opposition cost me 3 years of my life, 3 years in prison for deliberately doing treason to my own, my own kin.

So don't tell me about the system and what it was able to do but I still regret having been that stupid, that arrogant, that mislead, that idiotic, that cringe worthy person back then.

That's why I fight for that idea, what I learned about and paid for with 3 years of my youth. I am convinced that it will revive, come back, like in China now maybe or even better, I don't know but I know that idea of communism will survive, capitalism is no alternative, definitely not.

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Angelina's avatar

@Frank Sailor - I respect your experiences and thoughts about the system, and I understand that you lived through both systems, and so did I. However, there is a cardinal flaw in your reasoning. I didn't fight the system, I was a true believer in communism, and every time I'd seen how the system malfunctioned, or was being abused, I'd tell myself that it 'was only here, but somewhere, somewhere, communism must be working, because the system itself is so perfect, that it simply had to. Indeed, what could possibly be wrong with communism's eternal credo: "equality, unity, brotherhood?" Absolutely nothing, so it must be the people who misinterpret and abuse such eternal principles that are so appealing.

I agree, communism offered a totally different scale of values; where friends meant everything, and money meant nothing. I grew up in such environment, and I won't change it for any other kind; it formed me into a person I am. My communist father earned an impressive salary, but treated money, like Victorians treated undergarments, the unmentionables:-) The books were important, money, and other material things, were not, and I lived by such principles. Living abroad, it took me many years to even ask for a raise, being of the mentality,"if they think, I deserve it, they'd just give it to me." Now, I deliberately negotiate my consulting fees, and ask for what I want, even if I was perfectly okay with their offer, just to prove to myself that money is important, but not so important to not speak of it:-)

What you propose is a modified and humanized communism. What I propose is a modified and humanized capitalism. I think either could work, and did work to a certain point, but both are prone to abuse/misuse, and too much depends on an individual will of the people in charge, meaning either system is not fool-proof, and to prove the system’s point, communism was exterminating own people, for the "common good," and capitalism used to exterminate the outsiders (indigenous, natives, colonies, etc.) for the "common good," but now capitalism turned into grinding its own people, turning clock back to feudalism, rentiers economy vs. pure capitalism, and that's the real problem.

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Frank Sailor's avatar

I do not propose anything anymore, maybe to a woman one day again ;-)

The time is not right and the people are ‘not right’ in the west at this point in time.

It needs to get a lot worse before there is a readiness to listen to alternatives again.

Money talks in this system and I work for my share and only talk to people who want to listen, I am far from being a revolutionary.

I lack the balls, the readiness to give all for the cause, too old, too disappointed and thinking about retirement anyway..but I can’t resist a person with intelligence, wit, honest interest in exchange of thoughts and that’s why it is always a pleasure to me to read something from you.

Be well, lady.

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Chang Chokaski's avatar

Well said Frank Sailer - I agree with absolutely everything in your comment above. Thank you!

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Frank Sailor's avatar

true power comes with money, to try to set that apart is gaslighting

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Feral Finster's avatar

You really think that there were no sociopaths before money?

Money is just the tool, albeit a very effective one for the sociopath.

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Frank Sailor's avatar

A clinic diagnose is another straw-dog to beat on, capitalism has economic laws that demand all else. If you don't play after those laws you are out of the game and the other capitalist will swallow you alive, then you are back at the class of the deplorable.

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Feral Finster's avatar

I'm not sure that is responsive, but whatever. Life operates by certain laws.

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Frank Sailor's avatar

Why you are dragging life into this now?

In socialism/communism there is no life? People suddenly stop breathing, eating, clothing, housing and working and enjoying themself, doing art etc?

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Feral Finster's avatar

"In socialism/communism there is no life?"

Nobody said otherwise.

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Finn's avatar

Power or money are able to exist independently of each other.

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Chang Chokaski's avatar

Power (of any kind) comes from multiple sources - and existed before the invention of money (when there were debt/credit based systems primarily and occasional bartering).

Power can come from:

(1) hoarding of resources (with or without money)

(2) context specific - incredibly and highly specific skills (eg. only one neurosurgeon is able to perform this operation in the world)

(3) Physical strength (maybe in the hunter-gatherer days and a little later ?)

(4) Psychopathy and sociopathy (i.e. psychological manipulations skills, charisma, etc.)

(5) Physical beauty/attractiveness (genetic lottery)

many more...

One could even say the inverse - i.e. money comes from power (and its influences). It's a complex relationship and often bidirectional

Check this book out if you have the time: "Corruptible: Who Gets Power and How it Changes Us" by Brian Klass (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/59220130-corruptible)

AND/OR this YouTube video->Why do we get the wrong leaders? Brian Klaas at Science and Cocktails (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_Oab42VZRE) and "Why psychopaths rise to power | Brian Klaas" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpyIZ4DGIK8)

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Frank Sailor's avatar

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6Hcgs3B_XU

this gets it more to the point, imho

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John Turcot's avatar

Frank Sailor

"true power comes with money".

Absolutely! For starters, although trivial in scope, no one could make comments on these posts without a computer, paid for with ??????? .... nor would they be alive without buying, or sleeping under a roof that was also paid for. If you're not alive, you have no power. Chomsky said it best, there are three important things n the world.. the first is MONEY, the second is MONEY, and guess what the third happens to be. ???.... If you're not yet quite sure, just ask Elon Musk .... ,

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Frank Sailor's avatar

Okay, then I need to make the distinction between capital and money.

It's no wonder that there is a saying: money is for poor people, wealthy people have capital.

But whatever, I don't feel like I should lecture anyone here about capitalism, if you love it, be my guest.

Unfortunately the fact that you can become an economic professor in the west without even having read, Marx, Engels and Lenin is proof enough to me that this system produces illiterate Dunning-Kruger people what leads to no sensible discussion, because how do you describe colors to a blind person?

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Angelina's avatar

And in the West you learn to despise whatever "Marx, Engels & Lenin" wrote, without actually reading their works:-)

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Angelina's avatar

"the true power comes with money?"

Anybody who lived through any historic cataclysms would tell you how "money" turns into dust, but the goods can always be sold/bartered. On the grand scale of things, money is symbolic, and was exacerbated as such, by the fraudulent notions that people who "count money" (WallStreet, in broad strokes) are more important/earn more than people who do create goods sold for money/bartered. The corrupt current system turns an appendage/ancillary service into main.

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MARYELLEN KERSCH's avatar

Capitalism is ALL about power. And capitalism is very MUCH a problem; IMO, in the US at this time, it is most certainly the biggest problem.

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Feral Finster's avatar

It is possible to have power without capitalism.

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J M Hatch's avatar

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBOU4xBg2pA

Capital as Power in the 21st Century: A Conversation

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Susan Mercurio's avatar

I can't believe that you are supporting capitalism. Power is written into its structure.

I think that you are still responding with what you have been taught since childhood: "capitalism is the only good system ever!"

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Feral Finster's avatar

I am not supporting anything. There is no system that, no cure-all, merely tradeoffs and temporary expedients.

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Angelina's avatar

There is very little pure capitalism in the US, and it’s draconian at the level of a mom-&-pop shop level. The US capitalism is monopolies devoid of fair competition, keeping the prices artificially up. I remember how in Canada, Bell was the only phone services provider and the first minute of call abroad was $3.09 and each next “only” $2.95. When Canadian government allowed competition, many small providers stepped in and such calls became 6 cent/minute. I would GLADLY drop Amazon, Instacart, Xfinity, etc., if other providers will step in, dropping prices, improving services.

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Frank Sailor's avatar

There is no capitalism anywhere if I follow your argument but it's build into the system that there can't be a plain level field and free competition. Marx wrote the capital about it and explains and proofs why it is not possible to have it any other way because it is the law of economics in capitalism.

And what is competition good for except in sports on a fair and regulated basic?

Mankind only could survive through cooperation, that's why capitalism came that late in our evolution and it will kill us all in the end, because it will break down at it's own contradictions and can reset the system by war only.

Mom & Pop restaurants are no capitalism, they are doomed to self exploitation or growing out to capitalist chains in their field, striving for monopoly status.

Any form of regulation against the system is rolled back eventually because capital is power, they say what laws are made or making them themself by their law firms and the president gets them to sign.

Everything else is lying to yourself.

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Angelina's avatar

Didn't Marx, at the end of his life, acknowledged that he underestimated the capitalism's potential?

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Feral Finster's avatar

Rhetoric and professed ideology aside, businessmen prefer monopolies. The commiesymp Adam Smith noted that, if you introduce two business competitors, the first thing they do is fix prices, set territories, and set up barriers to competition

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Angelina's avatar

Obviously, they would try to fix the prices, and set barriers to competition, hence anti-trust laws/whatever. But these giants need to be broken down, and forced to compete. It impacts everything, including employment rights. If you worked for one company and left not on good terms, and now the companies amalgamated and absorbed a few competitors. Let's say you applied for a job with this new "conglomerate," but you won't get a job not on your own merit and relationship with the conglomerate, but because you worked for company # 4 absorbed by this conglomerate and now, you're automatically rejected by the rest of the bundle. There is a lot of shit going on now, that shouldn't.

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Danielle's avatar

Hello, when i go to purchase your print mag. It directs be to AMAZON…… Is there any other way to get a copy. Im definitly not purchasing through that vendor.

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jboegs's avatar

Democracy dies in dork-ness. A handful of dorks that pretty girls wouldn't even look at until they made their first billion are going to destroy America purposefully because they still feel worthless despite their hundreds of billions.

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Susan T's avatar

It would be nice to buy your magazine this month, but I will not buy anything from Amazon. I think it would be great if there were somewhere else we could buy it. The only problem I have with the painting of Elon Musk is that he does not look horrible enough in your painting. Yes, he looks arrogant, but there is a toxicity to that man that is probably difficult to capture in a painting.

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doris's avatar

I love your work and want to order the new paperback version but I don't order anything, ever, from Amazon, which is the default order place that came up. Is there another way to order your amazing work?

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russian_bot's avatar

Just order from Amazon if you really want to support Caitlin. Or condemn her for using the platform so it doesn't look like an excuse.

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doris's avatar

I'm not condemning Caitlin in the least. I've just never bought anything from the evil bastard and don't plan to start, so I simply asked if she had a different way to order her amazing work. No need to read anything else into my comment.

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The Revolution Continues's avatar

There is an ongoing boycott of Amazon going on since Bezos is a zy0nist. But good ol' Jeff has put/is trying to put all the other online book-sellers out of business so it does make it difficult.

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russian_bot's avatar

Wherever you are - assume in the West - you one way or another support someone who's a zio or in some other way an asshole by your definition. Yet, just by virtue of your living you support them.

For someone to complain they won't support an author because of a platform that author uses is just narcissistic whining and posturing.

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Susan Mercurio's avatar

Nonsense! There are other distributors that Caitlin can choose. For her to sell her work through a distributor whose owner she has just criticized seems a little hypocritical to me.

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Susan Mercurio's avatar

I just did criticize her for using that distributor.

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russian_bot's avatar

You did in a hollow way as you didn't suggest alternatives. Are you insinuating Caitlin knows they exist and just chooses not to use them?

Use your Gene Sharp expertise to come up with a solution now will ya.

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Redeemed Dissident's avatar

From my perspective, true (free-market) capitalism as an economic system is rarely found anywhere any more - so while you are certainly accurate in your critique of the unrighteous system operating in the U.S. contemporarily, it is not by definition or demonstration, capitalism. True capitalism is based on innovation, efficiency, production of profit (to enable expansion, diversification into new markets, etc.), a level playing field encompassing all possibilities & players, enabling growth through honest competition. Prices, production, and distribution of goods and services are determined by supply and demand. It respects, upholds & supports private property rights and the voluntary exchange of goods and services. Success comes from creating value—better products, lower prices, unique solutions—without favoritism or coercion. It is a meritocracy of markets: you win by out competing against others fairly – which leaves the field of “contenders” open to anyone.

Conversely, “Crony” Capitalism, on the other hand, which is and for some time has been status quo in the U.S., advantages businesses or individuals through relationships with government or powerful insiders that are intentionally unfair, biased and not competitive. Examples abound, but certainly subsidies, tax breaks, regulatory loopholes, or outright corruption (through lobbying, a revolving door between private companies and government agencies who regulate them, etc.) fit the bill. The benefits of business enterprises are then conferred on the well-connected rather than being earned in the free market through the intended measures. Success is based on a rigged game – it depends less on value creation, unique market, price or product positioning, etc., and more on informal relationships forged with those in power and can conversely use that power to support or to hinder the businesses, punitively excluding some businesses that do not have “special connections” with governing/regulatory interests. Government bailouts for specific corporations or contracts awarded without bidding, the intentional overregulation and impediment of certain industries or sectors over others or even competing ones, etc., are common occurrences in our (failing) economic system. The opposite of a meritocracy, Crony Capitalism rewards the few and

leads to concentration of wealth and market dominance by the few privileged versus the most

competitive/innovative/well-positioned business interests.

Related to the economic systems in play is the kind of “government” that is in place (which is also

considered a universal necessity, though it is a construct that is itself an impediment to true

freedom and preservation of rights). Government is generally based on the supposed delegation,

surrender or usurpation of individual rights and freedoms to authorities who are then granted or

who exercise by force, coercion, or the imposition of biased societal "values" those powers that the

average citizen does not possess & cannot themselves exercise individually because it would

violate the rights of others, including taxation by constraint (legalized, mandated extortion),

imposition of rules ("laws") subject to change restricting the citizenry along with the parameters for

their enforcement punishable up to and including deadly force, the financing of activities not

representative of each individual's preferences (and not those of the true majority, etc.). In more

recent years, even the process for the “selection” of “representatives” has been fraught with

dubious concerns over whether it is truly being conducted with impunity.

The other that is a critical consideration to the economic system is of course the monetary system

and policies. In the case of the U.S., we have had multiple iterations of both value- and fiat (debt)-

based systems, both those “lawfully” instituted (with some success, preserving independence &

sovereignty) per the governing documents drafted and signed by those declaring the existence of a

new country or federation of individual sovereign states, and those unlawfully/illegally founded,

(partially) funded and administered by privately owned central banks that exist solely to generate

profit for the owners and are not even part of the “governmental” structure, who create exclusive,

manipulatable markets designed to serve their interests and not those of the citizenry, business

entities or the trade partners with whom it and the businesses deal. As long as the monetary

system is being used for a small elite group of those whose goals and means are not coherent and

aligned with those of the governance and citizenry interests, everything else will be affected

negatively.

In the ideal society, a self-organizing, free, individual sovereign would seek and leverage mutually

beneficial relationships and contract for goods and services, work out disputes and derive payment

systems without the government apparatus. In other words, it is a chicken and egg issue with

related considerations – but what we are living in is so far from “textbook” it is impossible to lay the

blame for the ills of our society and that of other nation states at the feet of Capitalism, since it is

truly not what is in play and is further hindered from emerging and regaining dominance by the

presence and influence of the other impediments to true freedom and choice and the flourishing of

individuals and groups, the latter being intentional with a view to consolidation/collapse and the

replacement of it with a singular, central command and control global governance apparatus that

will be even farther removed from free markets, rights and exercise of liberties than we can fathom

– and it is on the horizon now.

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Frank Sailor's avatar

this is Adam Smith and Ricardo BS and was never true and will never be true - read Karl Marx 'the Capital', there is the explanation and proof why it is BS and impossible because it denies every law of capitalist economics.

The basics of life belong in the hands of the ones who make it possible, they own the capital because they make their work into capital with their own hands and minds and every capitalist is doing nothing but stealing their work to make a profit - it's not that complicated.

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Redeemed Dissident's avatar

Marxist ideology gave us such notable outcomes as the gulags under Joseph Stalin, the famine in Ukraine (1930’s), the famine in China (1950’s), millions of deaths under iconic “leaders” like Mao Zedong (Chinese style Marxism/Leninism), Pol Pot (Khmer Rouge Marxism), Kim Jong-Il (Stalinist Marxism), Nicolae Ceaușescu (Romanian Leninist/Marxism), Che Guevara (Cuban/Argentine Marxist), Ho Chi Minh (Marxist/Leninist) (unfortunately, many more), and a legacy of socialism/marxism/communism never having succeeded (because you run out of other people’s money sooner or later and state-owned and controlled production has no means for accurately judging demand for the proactive manufacture of supply, not does it incent excellence and innovation – workers lack incentive to produce optimally). It’s an interesting theory that has yet to be proven for any length of time, other than to enable dictators to rise and commit monstrous acts on the “governed,” who believed the fairy tale of equality and uniform distribution based on productivity. It is in fact Capitalism’s insistence & reliance on private property that makes Marxism a failed experiment multiple times over and its failure to recognize that imposed hierarchal systems are not self-sustaining. Focusing on the concentration of power structures and the imposition of them by force is self-defeating practice that has contributed much more to the demise of alternative economies than has private property ownership & true capitalism (from which informal hierarchal structures can and do emerge, but not because power has been seized by force and used as a weapon against the populous), because there is no substance to support it except sheer dominance by force and dictate.

I would submit that free market economics is the closest to an ideal system that might be implemented – it is unfortunate that the very existence of “government” structures and the unnatural powers accorded them (including their propensity to involve themselves in

the businesses that spring up under them, especially when they can manipulate and favor

one over another, etc.) – the ability to do things and act in ways that are counter

productive to humans and to society that no individual may engage in, make the

feasibility of such a system less realizable. These extraordinary powers that the state

assumes or is ostensibly granted are inherently the means by which the populous is no

longer served but instead exploited. If we were free to contract with one another, to build

our own community governance mechanisms that serve that community (all of which can

be done in the private sector without the “government” that we’ve been brainwashed in

to believing we MUST have), if we traded freely between one another based on perceived

or actual value for the mutual benefit of one another (instead of a corrupt government or

monopolistic industries or Ponzi-based monetary systems where debt is slavery and it

saps the life blood out of everything else), used our own innovation, resources,

cooperation and collaboration (versus competition and all that has become, including

such absurdities as industrial spies, etc.) to find solutions and to fund ideas, we’d be in a

better place where everyone would be able to share much more equitably in the benefits

of that arrangement. We just don’t believe it’s possible (though it is being done in small

groups who’ve exited the arbitrary power structures of the present age) but those who

wish to continue the illusion of “freedom" (slaves living on the plantation who seek

redress of grievances from the current slavemaster) we will find only the worst among us

“rising to the top” and using power to the detriment of the populous.

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Frank Sailor's avatar

All this horror stories about socialism/ communism, I am getting so tired of it.

It's all BS fed to western people by their capitalist masters to show them that there is no alternative to the ruling system and the people buy it without any question - it's hilarious.

Libertarian economy is nothing other than economic fascism, born out of imperialism, everyone for themself and god for all of us - it's anti human on a scale that it is astonishing that intelligent people are able to deny it to themself.

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Jim S's avatar

Thank You Caitlin

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Mark's avatar

Capitalism (& all its' offspring) is an evolutionary flaw humanity has to endure, a spiteful boor at odds with decency & probity.

It's biggest 'successes' are the worst of us, hubristic misfits who mistake their wealth for a personality.

And they're at the wheel.

Doom & doomer.

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Joy in HK fiFP's avatar

DAWN has urged the ICC prosecutor to investigate and prosecute former President Biden, State Secretary Blinken and Defense Secretary Austin for their personal roles in aiding and abetting Israeli war crimes, crimes against humanity, and genocide in Gaza as part of his ongoing investigation into the situations in Palestine since 2014.

https://dawnmena.org/latest/

Let’s give them our support.

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Igor's avatar

There never was pure capitalism (or anarcho capitalism), it was always "crony" capitalism. As soon as you create (first) monopoly (government) there is no more capitalism, but some self-serving monopolistic system.

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treebear's avatar

Thanks for your work.

My thoughts today:

Sociopathic alternative reality imposes itself upon others to coerce conformity and cultivate false narrative. The corrupt state psychiatric institution has acted to normalize sociopathology, obviously. They are the ones who developed and deployed MKULTRA and MKpsyops against the people after all.

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Blue_French_Qtr's avatar

How long will it take before you understand your ignorance that Humanity has not, since the crucifixion of Jesus Christ, lived in or under Capitalism but always under the Despotsim of tyrants? You cannot fix a problem you do not comprehend or fix a problem without addressing its root cause.

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Frank Sailor's avatar

you can't define despotism without capitalism, otherwise we still would have slaves

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Marten's avatar

The "writing on the wall" has been there for a long time, and WE are witnessing the Fall of Rome aka USSA !!!!!

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J M Hatch's avatar

“You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to desist from it (2:21).” Pirkei Avot, the moral guide to genocide.

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Redeemed Dissident's avatar

If only these were just stories…but the millions of dead who were the “collateral damage” from such (anti-capitalist) systems reminds us that there are real consequences to failed systems of governance and economics (that INCLUDES, IMO, the crony capitalism being used to manage/manipulate/disinform the populous at large in the U.S. including Libertarianism, which worships at the feet of "choice" but still believes selected officials with extraordinary powers that are not able to be exercised by any one individual can and should be exercised by this oligarchy of "representatives" who will supposedly always act in accordance with the will of the people, but with the people enjoying (theoretically) greater latitude for their day-to-day living and interactions than in a democracy or republic. I would advocate for peaceful anarchy -- "voluntaryism" -- a system that removes the specter of "government" imbued with special powers that no one individual can exercise that always leads to the powerful exploiting the populous at large....as we see today, while the U.S. sheds even the appearance of a Constitutional Republic for a place in the globalist regime, as one of ten regional centers (North American Technate) that is being assembled before our eyes, led by a technocratic oligarchy who through the corporatization of the executive functions associated with "government" have in mind a one world, consolidated monarchy that exists as an adjunct to AI administered oversight and control of all of the resources, people, living things, processes -- all digitized, inventoried, monetized and allocated as directed by the ruling class over the huge slave class who are controlled and managed for productivity and energy contributions to the "whole”: equity achieved through the entirety of civilization reduced to its barest minimum and completely dependent on government for being sustained, managed and enabled to exercise even the most limited of privileges that will serve the state. The biodigital convergence that is in process coupled with the explosion of AI-managed and directed activities indicates that a long-awaited plan that includes the learning gleaned from all of the previous experiments with governance -- all failed and available for our reference -- will be dismissed as inadequate and untenable while the totalitarian governance/rule is implemented as the solution to all ills and as the means through which absolute control is established/maintained. Our hope is that trough dissemination of truth and the sheer number of those who can and should resist this morphology into a cyber-centered world, we can disable the plan and assert our independence, not for some "other" form of governance, but to live independently, forming mutually beneficial associations, contracting with one another, collaborating and bonding together locally to accomplish the needs of the group with individuals assuming responsibility for affecting themselves and their households while benefitting the larger communities. All services presently provided by the government can and would be done privately. Yes, that means we'd pay a small fee for police, fire, emergency treatment and garbage collection, for para military forces to protect us from foreign intrusions, etc. so that we could live peacefully and without fear -- but we would also not have a government system extracting sums of money from us or exercising the use of force to enable compliance with arbitrary rules and victimless crimes in order to accomplish a different set of goals (the transfer of wealth, power and freedom from the people to the ruling class). See the Art of Living -- for more on Voluntaryism (Etienne de la Boetie2). For myself, I see the ultimate end of all things as the rule and reign of God over His creation - the restoration of paradise for those who are His and the elimination of those who are (without excuse) determined to avoid His gift of life, of love and of being saved from the machinations of a failed world system that cannot in its present form continue as it is a death cult awaiting its own destruction at the hands of those who have chosen the way of the fallen over the way of those who are rebirthed and part of a continuing society that is not of this world and is eternal, not subject to decay or demise. The real choice is between life and death, the method by which that occurs and the consequences of those choices.

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