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Luke's avatar

The retort that has worked for me regarding the “Monroe Doctrine” has been:

Well if that is going to be the standard shouldn’t we be getting out of the South China Seas?

You would actually be surprised how unready they are for that question.

Watching this Commercialized Trumpism is physically making me nauseous. It’s very concerning how much power he/they have using X. The bots are out in full force. I have to be remind myself not to get overwhelmed. I have seen the left and their media do it more than once. They try and isolate you; make you feel like you are weird for thinking that way. Remember you are NOT alone.

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Chang Chokaski's avatar

>>"I have seen the left and their media..."

Luke, the U.S. does NOT have a left. Liberals are NOT leftists, and leftists are not liberals. Just as Israel conflates anti-semitism with anti-zionism, so too do Capitalists (which consist of BOTH liberals and conservatives) conflate 'liberals with left'.

I won't bother you with the MANY DIFFERENT kinds of leftists as that would confuse you even more. Again, liberals are CAPITALISTS (and not socialists, communists, marxists, or whatever). Also social democrats (like AOC, Bernie Sanders, etc. are liberals, NOT leftists, and definitely NOT socialists).

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Elizabeth's avatar

We do so have a left. There are about 30 of us.

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Chang Chokaski's avatar

Yes, but I think you know what I meant Elizabeth :)

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Elizabeth's avatar

We certainly don't have an organized left.

Are you in the US, if you don't mind my asking? It kind of sounded like you aren't.

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Chang Chokaski's avatar

Yes, I am in the US. The US had a strong leftist presence (and organizations) in the earlier parts of the 20th Century, but over the years neoliberal Capitalism (and all that it entails) has eroded most of it.

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Luke's avatar

Well let me ask if I may what are you Chang? I have a friend I met some time ago on X. I believe MAYBE she is more of a leftist because she has more of hardline socialist/communist bent. What I mean by that is strictly economic driven.

I am still used to my old way of thinking. We are used to referring to liberals in the US as lefties and yes now I can see why I am confused lol.

To be honest I like my friend as opposed to the typical Democrat I meet in the US including the ones in my own family 🤭

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Chang Chokaski's avatar

>>"Well let me ask if I may what are you Chang?"

I'm some kind of Socialist (I used to be a Capitalist for most of my life and was similarly very confused about the differences between 'left' and 'liberal').

I'm still not convinced on the whole Communist thing (or exactly how that will work in the real world), but I'm still learning and growing, and my ideas may change and evolve.

Also, often the boundaries between Socialism and Communism are often muddled, though most consider consider Socialism to be a 'transitionary phase' between Capitalism and Communism.

As for Marxism, it is more 'a way of thinking and reasoning' and an analytical framework for understanding/analyzing things (eg. historical materialism, which is a subset of dialectical materialism).

But I'm sure I've confused you even more than before, so I'll stop here.

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Davina's avatar

That includes why are the interfering in the Middle East? Putting a bunch of zionist murdering rapists dies not a reasonable excuse make.

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Feral Finster's avatar

Of course the empire's justifications are outrageous hypocrisy.

So what? What matters is power.

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Occam's avatar

What confounds me is the tsunami of administration support for this coming from everywhere.

And all the people telling us about Iraq, Libya, Russia, China, Ukraine, covid, etc.

They were lying

And now they're telling the truth???

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Luke's avatar

It’s a fair point. It goes to what I said earlier. It’s a swarm tactic these people have seen deployed by “Liberals (got it 😉)” over the years. I’m not necessarily blaming Liberals or even these people because they’re just doing what works.

But let me interject something if I may, it’s curious to me how the Zionists are or have been quite close with both sides. They have really taken an extreme liking to the Trump admin. They love him and he loves them sort of thing.

Perhaps that explains it quite well.

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Feral Finster's avatar

Of course they are lying. Again.

They have the power to get their narrative accepted, facts be damned.

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Occam's avatar

Thank you, ff. Meow.

I was thinking I'd gone crazy.

People never learn - listening to supposed critical thinkers regurgitate administration talking points like they know first hand was making me question my sanity.

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Feral Finster's avatar

Thank you for the kind words. I wish I could offer more.

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Nick Douglas's avatar

Are you expecting integrity, fairness, and proportionality from the Empire of lies. Never going to happen. USA/EU/israel and the rest of the "west" are exceptionals, arrogant, liars, cheaters, murderers/genociders, thieves and hypocrites. I am taking about governments and people in power and their followers. Good and bad humans live everywhere. Most good people have no power as intelligent and decent people are full of doubts and avoid conflicts, while a$$holes are primitive, evil, and full of confidence. Hence in western nations mostly only a$$holes ascend to power. Sadly, but perhaps deservedly, this all is very likely going to end up in WW3 and the End of Humans on this beautiful planet. Some big nations (mostly BRICS and few others) will not accept to be bullied, discriminated, and humiliated while the rotting ugly western empire will not allow Independence and freedom to others. Let us hope that justice, love, and true freedom will defeat western evil, darkness, and zionist genociders.

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Helga Fellay's avatar

what the Drumpf criminal monster idiot did leaves me speechless. Words are not sufficient to express my disgust and horror that the mighty USA can apparently do nothing about it, such as put him in a nuthouse for the criminally insane, or at a minimum stop obeying his idiotic commands.

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Mitch Ritter's avatar

Good observations, Helga. However, as an engaged citizen now is when the work really begins for US. You have already figured out what is beyond our FREE MARKET NEWS MEDIA.

Advertisers who were allowed from birth of technical coast to coast radio broadcasting and before via Gutenberg over these 2 and a half centuries of 'civilization' have accepted like our fellow Americans (or Americans-in-process) context-free broadcast and print mass media. Look online for some posted talks and Question\Answer (Q&A) with English language mass media critics like the academically revered linguist (and full-time activist citizen) Noam Chomsky or others of his and earlier generations whose work fill books rarely referenced on our mass media yet selective smorgasbord:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_Consent

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_Consent_(film)

The film link above is a superb DVD Canadian documentary (never to my knowledge broadcast in the US) that illustrates many of the points Noam Chomsky, Michael (and now his publishing and public speaking son Christian) Parenti, Edward Herman, Barbara Ehrenreich, Molly Ivins etc) follow in the footsteps of from earlier centuries of our nation-states' founding dba Grand Larceny. Like these 2 herstorical\historical early print media even pre-broadcast media social critics, thinkers and pioneers of what our generation calls "Modernity" and who I think of as the Battling Ida's:

https://wams.nyhistory.org/modernizing-america/activism-and-the-progressive-era/ida-b-wells/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ida_Tarbell

Dare I read with presumption your (and my shared...) "disgust and horror that the mighty USA can apparently do nothing about it, such as put him in a nuthouse for the criminally insane, or at a minimum stop obeying his idiotic commands."

Criminality via displacement was at the root of the modestly middle-named Frederick Christ Trump Sr's migration from Germany to this mythic Golden Land sprawling barely prospected from coast to coast to Gulf of Mexico. A 'Goldeneh Medina' whose native people were conveniently 'contained without reservation' or else subjected to genocidal containment in anthropological museums whenever tribes organized regional growth near bodies of fresh water flowing into token costumed nations or confederacies a la the Iroquois or Creek.

https://www.britannica.com/list/the-6-nations-of-the-iroquois-confederacy

https://nativetribes.blog/blog/iroquois-confederacy-modern-influences-and

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haudenosaunee_Confederacy_Chiefs_Council

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohawk_skywalkers

"Mohawk skywalkers is a nickname for Mohawk ironworkers and other construction workers who have helped construct buildings and bridges in American and Canadian cities including New York City, Chicago, Philadelphia, San Francisco, Detroit, Toronto, Vancouver, and Montreal. Mohawk workers have contributed to the construction of iconic structures across North America including the Empire State Building, the Chrysler Building, Sears Tower, the CN Tower, the Brooklyn Bridge, the Golden Gate Bridge, the San Francisco Bay Bridge, the George Washington Bridge, the United Nations Building, and the Twin Towers. Mohawk volunteers and workers contributed to both rescue efforts at Ground Zero and the rebuilding of the new World Trade Center.[1]"

"The over 140-year history of Mohawk involvement in ironwork dates to the 1880s, when Mohawk workers from Canada and upstate New York began to travel to major cities across North America. In the 1920s, Mohawk families from Canada formed the ethnic enclave of "Little Caughnawaga" in Brooklyn, as many Mohawk ironworkers were employed in the construction of skyscrapers in Manhattan.[2] According to the Journal of American Indian Education, Mohawk culture values "physical bravery" and the ethic of taking risks for the greater good of the people.[3] In the 21st century, Mohawk workers remain involved in high-rise and bridge construction.[4]"

"Canada"

"The Mohawk involvement in ironwork began in 1886, when Mohawk workers were hired to help construct a bridge over the St. Lawrence River. According to journalist Joseph Mitchell, a group of Mohawk men from a nearby community were initially hired as temporary unskilled labor for this bridge project. When the Mohawk men showed keen interest in technical details of the construction and exhibited no fear of heights, they were trained in the skilled trades needed for the job. They soon became widely in demand due to their reliability and the excellent quality of their work.[5]"

From whom Thomas Jefferson and earlier colonial founding fathers cribbed constitutional concepts once languages were figured out by mostly lawless military or mostly masked Imperial Bid-net\Business policies continuing to this day with little obstruction. Not even diplomatically from any corner of the certified cozy club of the irregularly convening 'civilized' nation-states (re: UN) of the very cozy club in the flat building at the Empire City's waterfront a block or so east of the imaginatively named East River. A neighborhood since British Imperial times known to this day via the family handing down of ever ballooning property values as Germantown (aka Midtown and to the avaricious once working class blue collar residents, the Upper East Side by now even with rent control cleared of any blue collar renters or prospective home buyers....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Trump

"Frederick Christ Trump Sr. (October 11, 1905 – June 25, 1999) was an American real-estate developer and businessman. He was the father of Donald Trump, the 45th and 47th president of the United States, along with four other children.

"Born in the Bronx in New York City to German immigrant parents, Trump began working in home construction and sales in the 1920s before heading the real-estate business started by his parents (later known as the Trump Organization).[a] His company rose to success, building and managing single-family houses in Queens, apartments for war workers on the East Coast during World War II, and more than 27,000 apartments in New York overall. Trump was investigated for profiteering by a U.S. Senate committee in 1954 and again by New York State in 1966. Donald Trump became the president of his father's real-estate business in 1971. Two years later, they were sued by the U.S. Justice Department's Civil Rights Division for racial discrimination against black people.

"According to The New York Times, Fred and his wife, Mary, provided over $1 billion (in 2018 dollar value) to their children, avoiding over $500 million in gift taxes. In 1992, Fred and Donald set up a subsidiary which was used to funnel Fred's fortune to his progeny. Shortly before his death, Fred transferred the ownership of most of his buildings to his surviving children, who several years later sold them for over 16 times their previously declared worth.

"In 1927, Trump was arrested at a Ku Klux Klan demonstration, but there is no conclusive evidence that he supported the organization.[b][c] From World War II onward, to avoid associations with Nazism, Trump denied his German ancestry and also supported Jewish causes.[d][e][f]"

"Early life and career"....

Mitch Ritter

Paradigm Sifters, Code Shifters, PsalmSong Chasers

Lay-Low Studios, Ore-Wa (Refuge of A-Tone-ment Seekers)

Media Discussion List\Looksee

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Alan's avatar

Nothing Maduro did compares to willful, planned, and funded genocide of the Rump/Satanyajoo duo.

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Diana van Eyk's avatar

I can't stand Trump, but he's doing a great job of showing us what western power is all about. I hope the rest of us rise to the occasion of processing what we're being shown, and then taking effective action to stop these people.

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Feral Finster's avatar

What has happened is the empire has dropped any remaining pretense of being anything other than an empire.

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Nick Douglas's avatar

As Frank Zappa and Malcolm X said several decades ago - the curtain of fake "democracy and freedom" will be lifted. It is no longer possible or convenient for the western Empire to lie. It is fully naked now.

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Diana van Eyk's avatar

I'm right there with you, Frank and Malcolm, Nick. Democracy and freedom have looked pretty fake here in the western world for a long time now.

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Nancy's avatar

Caitlin, you do have a way with words. I had to laugh, despite the outrageousness and seriousness of the situation. Unfortunately, what we’re dealing with now is not “dead assholes,” but live ones.

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Indu Abeysekara's avatar

Colonialism of Britain and other western powers has morphed into neo-colonialism of the US empire. With the former hanging on as its vassal states. No wonder Trump's acolytes fished out the Monroe Doctrine.

Flushed with the 'success' of a genocide, they were wishful thinking that they can recreate the old colonial world in all its greed, hatred and delusions. In a 21st century world, one would have thought it impossible, but Trump and the oligarchs have gone one better (or worse),there is no news that can shock or disturb anymore.

The older Bush wasn't stopped when he abducted Noriega of Panama and locked him up. It looks as easy as it was then, for Trump to abduct Maduro of Venezuela today. No consequences of their actions for them. The fewer consequences these elite face, the less change there will be.

They will have a war against Venezuela while laying siege against its own people. The American people cannot look away, mass ignorance will make things even worse.

Who's going to stop them? UN is totally useless. Its uselessness was written into its very fabric. It is up to the American people.

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Davina's avatar

Yep, given that one country of the newer members voted to allow one veto to stop any motion is utterly insane, especially when you have the US being allowed that privilege, which they use in the worst way at the is wrong times.

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Feral Finster's avatar

Power is the only thing that stops power.

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Chang Chokaski's avatar

Well expressed Indu!

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wrknight's avatar

The Monroe Doctrine was never based on any law and never supported by any law, national, international or otherwise. It was simply James Monroe's personal foreign policy. The same goes for Trump's foreign policy except that Trump doesn't really make foreign policy. Real foreign policy in the U.S. is decided higher up in the board rooms of multinational corporations that are seeking government support in exploiting whatever resources they can from other nations.

Technically, the Constitution divides foreign policy powers between the President and the Congress. Congress is supposed to control war and commerce and the President controls the rest. Sadly, Congress has signed over it's control of war to the President as it has with almost everything else.

For all practical purposes, we could fire all the members of Congress and turn the Capitol into a museum and we would be money ahead.

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CK's avatar

Monroe Doctrine is based upon the law of “Might makes Right” and we dare you to take your chances.

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wrknight's avatar

AKA Law of the Jungle. I'll buy that.

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Nick Douglas's avatar

In fact, life in a jungle is governed strictly by the laws of "prey and predator". Very fine balance. Why most people think of jungle as something ugly and evil. Jungle is beautiful, natural, just, and self-preserving. Just because for humans on a macroscale it looks chaotic and disorder it is in fact a very fine order on smaller scales. There are no genocides and no evil in a jungle. As opposed to western human-made and unnatural "gardens".

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Feral Finster's avatar

Yes. It works.

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Chang Chokaski's avatar

Trump does have a foreign policy - it's called 'The Donroe Doctrine' - the goal being to destroy the whole world (including America). He's doing a fine job of it so far...

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wrknight's avatar

You are giving Trump way, way too much credit. Trump doesn't think. He reacts - and usually in random fashion having little connection to the original stimulus.

You can call it his doctrine because he is president, but in reality it's someone else's brain fart.

You might want to read the Heritage Foundation's Project 2025 which is where at least half of Trumps bullshit brain farts come from. (I recommend that you keep a supply of anti-nausea medication handy if you choose to read it.)

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Chang Chokaski's avatar

My comment was more of a joke/sarcasm (and not to be taken in a serious manner).

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wrknight's avatar

Sorry, I missed that. It's getting late and I'm getting sleepy.

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Renee Marie's avatar

That’s a good one!👏

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Feral Finster's avatar

Yes, but so what?

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Achillea's avatar

Caitlin, I love your work! And this column is great as always...

But but you might want to check out the anti-interventionist conservatives, especially among conservative youth, before attributing the dopiness about the Monroe Doctrine to right-wingers. Some of the most forthright voices against US intervention everywhere in Congress recently have been Thomas Massie and Marjorie Taylor Greene, both of whom would be called "right-wingers" on domestic issues – both have been coming out against the US stance on Israel (much better than most Democrats, with the exception of a few like Rashida Tlaib and Ilhan Omar), and now against the Venezuela incursion. Today MTG posted about Washington's ‘never ending military aggression’ and wrote ‘This is what many in MAGA thought they voted to end, Boy were we wrong.’

Much of the "right wing" in this country is now fracturing along the lines of "America first" vs. "Israel first," especially among young folks. To a great extent, this 'right-wing / left-wing, red team / blue team' thing has been a distraction to keep us divided along culture war lines while the imperialists (on both wings or teams) go on about their business – we are supposed to divide ourselves based on how we feel about abortion rights, gay rights, and immigration while ignoring that both 'sides' are perfectly in accord with the US ruling the whole world. But the youth are starting not to buy it, especially those who would have been called 'right-wing' – numerous podcasters who appeal to conservative youth have been some of the strongest voices pushing against our unending support for Israel (including Tucker Carlson and Candace Owens). I think if you look into some of their work you might be surprised (especially that of Tucker Carlson, who recently traveled to visit refugees from Gaza and did a documentary about them – and got himself named 'Antisemite of the year' because of it).

So I don't know a better phrase to characterize those idiots parroting the 'Monroe Doctrine' line – but I think 'right-wing' may not really do it anymore. Maybe just US imperialist-apologists?

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Mitch Ritter's avatar

The only use for political labels like "Left\Right, Right\Center\Left" are as marching orders.

Once we get that far game over and Big Tech Weapons win....Boots on the ground or no, unless it's Boots Riley and the battlefield is Bay Area private property valuations of the speculators his writing and film directing that so well lamps our color-coded upward mobility and 'Professional\Executive Escalators' literal and\or metaphorical ....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1d3cWEk-bI

Ask

24,821 views Dec 2, 2020 Panels & Interviews

Boots Riley recounts his introduction to radicalism.

How Boots Riley Became a Communist (Recall an earlier point about context before letting that label rub off after Cold War decades of White House Agit Prop on blue collar tax-payer tab...) Boots Riley is the son of a legendary Oakland & Bay Area Union organizer who might be wincing as his otherwise stellar activist-artist kid gets labeled w\lingo of Cold War Private Contractors...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boots_Riley

Bad Faith

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(After debut of his written & directed and organizational 21st Century landmark Oakland-filmed debut feature length indie fund-raised film "SORRY TO BOTHER YOU" that did well at box office...) Jest sayin' ahead of disastrous quicksand of long dissolved Cold War memories and trauma baiting and enemy labeling of generations of idealists...Not to mention Institutional Memory Hole that Boots played into swapping Communist for Capitalist Cold War labels in his prankster way over-the-head of politically alienated yoot...

Not to mention that We the US haven't ever been as good at "Defining our terms" as we've been with labeling any draft-able 'loyal' opposition to our Corporate-O-cracy and judicial\political oligarch-structured kleptocracy. Go back to circa 1940's Hollywood surprise hit comedy written and directed by Preston Sturges titled The Great McGinty for some background in mostly lily white skin-tones on shaking off Sucker-ocracy ... This off-Hollywood chestnut packs today's repertory movie houses whenever it gets pulled out for some theme festival on political institutional corruption and buying The American Way....

Libraries rent the DVD or even easier for da lazier via online rental or finding the whole movie being streamed for free. You get with any attentive viewing an Ivy League quality course in how to cast white and earn inter-generational 'Urban Inner City' cred with a thoroughly 'black comedy' written, produced and starring Hollywood machine New Deal white talent with token blacks all around the periphery for hoopsters and screensters who've been working on their "Peripheral Vision"...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_McGinty

Mitch Ritter (who doesn't trust 'our system' enuff to even joke about or label myself a gag)

Paradigm Sifters, Code Shifters, PsalmSong Chasers

Lay-Low Studios, Ore-Wa (Refuge of A-Tone-ment Seekers)

Media Discussion List\Looksee

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Rob Roy's avatar

I keep thinking we will wake up from this nightmare, but it seems to drag on and on. The rest of the world must join forces to end the US and Israel...and the weak sycophants of Europe and Australia. Now it's illegal to be against capitalism, patriotism and Christianity in the US. I'm doomed, being against all three. Caitlin is always on the mark. Thanks, again.

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Elizabeth's avatar

You'd need a gang of toughs to enforce the Johnstone Doctrine. Then it would be real.

About the right wing idiots, do you really think they've never heard of it? I met it in high school history class, and I even remember getting the impression it was a bad thing. That was in the 70's. Maybe the history classes were better for a year or two, and I was lucky?

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Mitch Ritter's avatar

Every net, even a mass media advertiser-driven dragnet has holes....

First we'd have to as a nation face and discuss our national NOT READY 4 PRIME TIME her\history....

https://wams.nyhistory.org/modernizing-america/activism-and-the-progressive-era/ida-b-wells/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ida_Tarbell

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Manufacturing+Consent+

Tio Mitchito

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Rodolfo Marusi Guareschi's avatar

The paradox is that the same people who justify the empire's violations support the doctrines of churches that say not to do to others what you would not want done to you, and criticize the Russian doctrine on the use of nuclear weapons in the event of an invasion. Double standards!

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Occam's avatar

These people have LIED to us about nearly EVERY SINGLE significant world development for decades.

And the hoi polloi are regurgitating administration talking points left and right.

What are the chances what we're being told is true?

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Rodolfo Marusi Guareschi's avatar

No one

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Jet Taylor's avatar

Isn't that what Capitalism and Imperialism is all about?? Making up illegitimate bullshit to justify itself?? As long as there's a motive for power, there will be a motive for mental gymnastics

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Mitch Ritter's avatar

Don't overlook an admittedly forward-looking innovation of participatory democracy

'subversives' since round about the early days of the Gutenberg printing press.

His\herstory has been corrected in minor and major ways by this ever-changing dynamic high falutin' academics and critical thinkers the world over are attentive to. Namely how much brains (conniving), stamina, social organization and 'eyes-on-the-prize' perseverance with vision is required to make stuff like where we find ourselves possible:

(fade-in the motivational soundtrack....)

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Manufacturing+Consent+

Here's been my choice for soundtrack to our dispossession and it took a foreign point of view POV to lamp it with a melody worthy of prayer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlsQhRFTQ_4

"No, Surrender" (mind the punktuation!)

Justin Currie

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justin_Currie

Health and balance

may Maker bring this miraculous spinning orb plan

into being via our predecessor generations who've already paid

an ever inflating Global price

Warmly embracing and embraced,

Tio Mitchito

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Feral Finster's avatar

Nobody of influence and authority would allow it.

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Kate's avatar

I want to implement the Marilyn Monroe doctrine - now!

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grahamlyons's avatar

Be careful what you wish for, Kate. She was another one of MrE's "divine androgynes":

https://archive.org/details/BitChute-y0Fd6D3UumkL

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Renee Marie's avatar

I doubt Joe DiMaggio was into that…at all!

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The Revolution Continues's avatar

Great cover choice and great painting. Maduro deserves more respect than what the shameless Trump has done to him, parading him around blindfolded and in handcuffs, against the Geneva convention.

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Charles A Gillard's avatar

The thing is there was a religious empire embedded in the various western empires that uses everyone for their male dominance behaviors and no one notices they are the biggest empire with no clothes.and it has now taken over world culture dominance using any new emerging empire.

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Sue's avatar

I’m gonna need to watch 10th Amendment center’s video about the Monroe BS again. Best I recall, it also stated it was BS the way drump talks about it. Explained Why Monroe even stated it. Although I liked your example better. Truer statements!

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