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Susan T's avatar

"They work so hard to manufacture our consent for these atrocities because they absolutely require our consent. So don’t give it to them." They have never had my consent. I went to a pro Palestine, pro Lebanon rally today and there were thousands of people there who have not given their consent. Keep talking. Keep telling them they don't have your consent.

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SW's avatar

Hollywood has played a crucial role in weaving the “noble myth” of Israel through countless movies and endless books portraying the Jews as the only people who suffered in WW2 or were targeted by the Nazis and so, by extension, must have Palestine to be safe ever again. Manufacturing consent for never questioning Israel’s motives beyond “safety” started years ago. I fell for it but no more.

I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard “they have a right to defend themselves” or “they’re in a tough neighborhood” and both Presidential candidates promote this distortion to justify their support. Jill Stein is on the ballot in Texas and I’m voting for her even though it’s hopeless.

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Graceful Mountain Goat's avatar

It’s not hopeless. We can break the two party system by voting 💚

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Joy in HK fiFP's avatar

It’s not hopeless, it’s absolutely the opposite. What would be hopeless is to vote for one of the Uniparty candidates, or not vote at all.

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Sophie Blessman's avatar

@Joy in HK I vote in Indiana, where no meaningful third party candidate was declared. I was meaning to vote for Jill Stein but I evidently don't have the right to \(-_-)/ At this point, I've simply decided not to vote at all... The only options the state allowed were shitty ones so here I am :/ Anyways, I agree with your sentiment and just wanted to add nuance to your statement by adding my experience :)

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John Mann's avatar

Chase Oliver is on the ballot in Indiana. He may not be Jill Stein, but he has spoken out against the genocide - and is a lot better than Trump or Harris.

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Sophie Blessman's avatar

Ok, cool, thanks for the tip! I'll see if I'll still be able to vote for him (voter abroad... Yada yada... Might be too late -_-)

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John Mann's avatar

I'm a voter abroad too, so I also need to make sure I'm not too late!!

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Starry Gordon's avatar

Not voting could be turned into a worthwhile political and social exercise if non- or sometime-voters held public meetings (like Gilets Jaunes) to explain and criticize elections. These meetings could eventually be turned into either new parties or one-shot campaign initiatives. The point would be to subvert the tiresome inevitability of the present two-party system by constructing an unpredictable threat to the status quo. It is hard to think of a worse set of candidates for office than those who have been presented to the electorate in 2024, so people might be ready to try something different.

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Jennifer Akdemir's avatar

Yes. It's why I refuse to watch American films.

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gypsy33's avatar

Hi SW

Even if Dr. Jill doesn’t win, a good showing will put the fear of god into the duopoly, and will likely encourage Amerikkkans to vote Third Party in ‘28.

If the planet’s still around.

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Carolyn L Zaremba's avatar

Right on.

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gypsy33's avatar

Great job, Susan! 🙂

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Vin LoPresti's avatar

I am so sick of my effing country. America’s war against the world is a manifestation of the ugly reality of its internal war against itself. Consider Charlottesville, 7 yrs. ago, an insane turf war initiated by the removal of a bloody statue, but hearkening back to America as apartheid state. Any excuse, any level of historical validity or irrelevance can serve as a trigger for inter-group strife with accompanying violence. Is it any wonder that such a hypocritical society — regardless of all the lovely words in its founding documents— would spill that overflowing violence out into the rest of the cosmos?

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jamenta's avatar

I don't think the human race has remained exactly the same since its birth. There has been some growth and evolution, both in civilization and achievements. That doesn't mean there is an absolute guarantee we will survive our own self-destructive impulses. Currently it really doesn't look like we will.

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Edward Bernaysauce's avatar

the definition of what it means to be human- is what is in question in regards to survival, I think...

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𝓙𝓪𝓼𝓶𝓲𝓷𝓮 𝓦𝓸𝓵𝓯𝓮's avatar

We are great apes. "Human" means nothing. The white supremacists absolutely had to seperate us from the other animals we share the planet with. In the bible the mythology states that the "man" was given dominion over the other animals. Human supremacy, lead to white supremacy. Humans are animals. We are not seperate from nature. And all of this bullshit stems from damaged brains. Psychopaths brains are psychologically different from normal brains. They cannot feel sympathy, empathy, or compassion. They invented currency and capitalism. They have zero interest in saving the environment because they don't give a fuck. If our species survives the coming insanity, we must never allow psychopaths to gain power again.

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Anti-Hip's avatar

"we must never allow psychopaths to gain power again"

100% agreed. This is a core issue. Sociopaths need to be contained while we attempt to re-acclimate them to society; while psychopaths (to the extent distinguishable from sociopaths) need to be contained, period.

A second core issue is the accumulation of power, which IMO is essentially the accumulation of technology, in all its forms. We may be reaching a dangerous watershed in which technology is simply too advanced for humans to handle. In psychopathic/sociopathic hands, it eventually leads to an extinction-level event; which one or group "wins the lottery" TBD. Combined with surveillance, you can start seeing this with AI robot dogs with mounted guns roaming the streets; now on the battlefield, soon to a city near you.

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Claire Drouault's avatar

Until recently I believed our current surge of inhumanity came from the loss of innate honor and integrity once valued by our forefathers. Today, thanks to alternate news sources like Substack, I am painfully aware that, America's proclaimed ideals notwithstanding, our humanity is horrifyingly weighted to the dark side.

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halafi's avatar

It's an insult to the entire ecosystem that we have any power at all. We are the parasites on this planet.

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jamenta's avatar

Agree. What is consciousness? Why does it exist? Why does any of this exist?? Is it all just random nonsense?

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Anti-Hip's avatar

Humans are unavoidably limited and fallible. IMO, two of the screamingly obvious limitations are our inabilities to understand the nature of consciousness, and the nature of life.

Weirdly, most of the religious folks think we can leapfrog over such things with God, which is indistinguishable from hallucination. Weirdly, most of the scientific folks also think we can leapfrog over such things by relying on our senses and logic, but there can never be a (final) Grand Unified Theory of anything.

We need to regain the humility that the Enlightenment brought us, with (among other things) its democracy, public evolution of science, and adversarial justice.

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jamenta's avatar

Interesting take. Not quite what I've heard before. Bridges the divide between the religious fanatics and the science "rationalist" fanatics.

"God" - use of the word "God" to me has always been loosely applied, and we all know there have been hundreds if not thousands of different spiritual traditions and religions throughout human history. Heck, Buddhism itself (a religion) doesn't even believe in a "God". Whose definition of "God" are you speaking about when you say "God"? Whose religion? What spiritual definition?

In Science we have the reductive materialists who now demand obeisance, much like the old church zealots of the Spanish Inquisition. If you don't bow down to them, you will be banished from Academia, attacked online for your refusal to obey Materialist doctrine. And yet, in science itself, we now know there are such things in Nature as non-local phenomena, a possibility of more than one Universe (Everett's Probable worlds) - we have an explanation of a Big Bang, but no explanation of how everything came from nothing. Science too has almost as many rational holes in it than all the definitions of "God" one can discover in ancient theological texts.

Weirdly, you and I still go about our individual lives. Not really knowing how we even came into existence, why there is any kind of existence, and not really living for very long - soon perhaps to be put away forever, not ever even knowing why we even existed in the first place. Well, at least this is often the "ego" portion of consciousness that experiences this - Carl Jung would argue the unconscious does know where it is going. The damndest thing about the unconscious, is it is unconscious. The ego is rarely fully aware of what is happening in the unconscious.

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Anti-Hip's avatar

"Whose definition of "God" are you speaking about when you say "God"? Whose religion? What spiritual definition?"

Fair enough. I am thinking of the assertions by people who insist there are specific entities (spirits, or what have you), the alleged knowledge of which cannot be transmitted to a skeptic (unlike the case with science). Either you believe, or you don't, or something in between, prior to revealed religion coloring between the lines.

"In Science we have the reductive materialists who now demand obeisance, ..."

Little argument from me there; probably only about the definition of the "material". I find it plenty reasonable to believe there are "material" things/behaviors/etc that simply cannot be sensed in any way by humans; only, when we are lucky, some of their effects.

"Weirdly, you and I still go about our individual lives. Not really knowing how we even came into existence, why there is any kind of existence, and not really living for very long - soon perhaps to be put away forever, not ever even knowing why we even existed in the first place. "

Granted, weird to most people, but not to me. I simply don't worry about it, because I've found nothing worth believing in absolutely, and very little that explains life usefully. Or more accurately, over the years I've removed all kinds of beliefs about all sorts of things told to me that were supposedly "true". I now realize that *absolutely nothing* can be known with any certainty. IMO, the word "know" should be banished. It's useless pretension.

"Carl Jung would argue the unconscious does know where it is going."

Look, I've had a number of human analysts attempt to explain me to me, and at this stage in my life, I humbly consider all of them to have been wrong. Too often, destructively so. Certainly, more wrong than my own introspections. Early on, I got angry. Later, I got very tired of of wasting time and money. And very bored. Would have been better (and maybe cheaper), say, to simply hire a good philosopher to talk to for a while! I do think we're still centuries behind psychology getting anywhere close to explaining how human minds work, never mind anyone's in particular.

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David Avenell's avatar

It's neither random or nonsense. It's mathematics - the stars in a galaxy move in the same patterns and paths as molecules in a drop of water because of the laws of maths and physics. Following unarguable laws is far from nonsense.

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jamenta's avatar

Is consciousness quantitative? How do you calculate a feeling?

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David Avenell's avatar

Well, that might be up there with "How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?" I suppose you can can try and set a standard, but I'm not sure what they're worth.

I know when I go to the doctor or to a hospital I'm often asked, 'On a scale of 1 - 10, how bad is the pain?

I don't know. How bad is 10? One nurse ( In an Adelaide hospital ) offered: child birth would be number 10, but with me not being a woman, that didn't help much.

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𝓙𝓪𝓼𝓶𝓲𝓷𝓮 𝓦𝓸𝓵𝓯𝓮's avatar

Civilization is a white supremacist, colonizer word. We really need to stop using it.

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Anti-Hip's avatar

All groups with power eventually become supremacists, after enough time and cognitive reinforcement. The European "whites" were simply the ones who occupied center stage from about 1500-1950. They* controlled or wiped out the natives in all continents during that period.

Now, we simply have a different supremacist group wiping out the previous one, this time primarily by the pen rather than the sword, ranking peoples' moral value by supposed "intelligence" rather than race, conquering (and creating) power structures rather than land. Don't kid yourself that it will be confined to the West.

---------------

*Or rather, the subset of psycho/sociopathic, rich, intelligent, attractive, charismatic, politically connected, risk-prone, etc. among them, who led their lessers in all things physical and psychological. As occurs in all races, everywhere.

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𝓙𝓪𝓼𝓶𝓲𝓷𝓮 𝓦𝓸𝓵𝓯𝓮's avatar

It's predominantly in white men. Nope. It's still white supremacy.

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Anti-Hip's avatar

Tell that to the dying third of the US outside the cities.

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Kathleen Temple's avatar

I also think "it really doesn't look like we will" but that's why I so appreciate the conclusion to the post by Caitlin and Tim today. Even if we don't survive, we mustn't let them take our dignity. We can live in love, with dignity, whether they like it or not.

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Oct 6, 2024
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Vin LoPresti's avatar

I rule out no possibility for covert fuckery by "intelligence" goons, aka sociopaths who flock together because no other group will tolerate their nefarious talents. It's really just a detail in the entire American schema as it completely matured with post WWII technological capabilities.

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jamenta's avatar

heh

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martin's avatar

i am also quite familiar with gladio. i live in the results. anti-socialist and anti-communist sentiment in europe and elsewhere is not the 'natural state' of things. these attitudes were carefully crafted over generations and the obvious violent outbursts are only the tip of the iceberg. this was a full spectrum project (education, academia, unions, politics, culture, ...). european society is 90% 'fake'. capitalism didn't abolish feudalism, they merged.

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Carolyn L Zaremba's avatar

I know all about Project Gladio.

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Joy in HK fiFP's avatar

I don’t have time to watch it all right now, but it’s very interesting so far, I’ve gotten as far as the assassination of Lumumba. Thank you for sharing.

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Leon Brown, Jr.'s avatar

"It’s not the fault of middle eastern people that they live on top of a bunch of oil near crucial trade routes in a region which bridges three continents. And that’s all this has ever been about. Not fighting “terrorism”. Not spreading freedom and democracy. Not even protecting Israel. It’s ultimately about controlling what happens in a geostrategically crucial and resource-rich stretch of land.": THE REAL BOTTOM LINE, IN THIS AND IN MOST CONFLICTS. Tell it, Caitlin!

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jamenta's avatar

Control. Like any abusive person - it's almost always about control. The need to feel secure in one's power at any cost. Underneath the need to "control" is fear, a weak ego, and a lack of faith that anything can be more meaningful in one's life (except control).

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Leon Brown, Jr.'s avatar

You’re so right, jamenta!!!

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Marten's avatar

"The loudest cries for War never seem to come from those who will have to fight & die" Jackson Browne

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jamenta's avatar

Funny how that works.

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Joy in HK fiFP's avatar

I have no doubt that this is true now, but I believe that historically those in charge have often led the charge on the battlefield. I think of such as Alexander the Great, Saladin, Richard the lionhearted, Henry IV, and others. This makes me think that the war and killing urges of the patriarchal death cult have deeper roots, and that if we want a true solution, we need to look deeper as well.

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Will Durant's avatar

Absolutely correct!

As an American, one can visit almost any city (New Yawk and a few others excepted) and ANY town or village, anywhere in the world and be treated as a special guest. The best and loveliest people are in the “shithole countries.” One of the finest men I ever knew was Iranian.

Yes, our real enemies are right here on the good ol’ USA, and they are in opposition to everything that is good and decent in the world that doesn’t involve their elite colleagues, families and small circle of friends. They see themselves as great patriots and as the smartest people in any room, but they are a clear and present danger to us all and, more broadly, to all life on earth. They are consummate fools with advancd degrees from Princeton, Yale and Harvard, which I suppose they see as a license to spread fear, misery and havoc throughout the world, much as the license on your doctor’s wall certifies that he can take out your gallbladder, but with opposite result. They never heal. They just make everything sicker

I didn’t vote for their pernicious agenda. They claim to want to spread democratic values around the world while ignoring the needs and clearly stated wishes of their countrymen. They embody a certain kind of evil that all people of good will must oppose in every minute of every day.

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F....'s avatar

We need unity in order to introduce accountability for the lies told by our so called politici.

All Politici are under oath - we must demand nothing less that they be held accountable for not honoring that oath by catering to an outside entity.

For example - Isn't it treason when our politici are more loyal to an other nation instead our own?

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Diana van Eyk's avatar

Ya, isn't Israel's interference via AIPAC a form of foreign interference? And it's a big deal. Genocide is a big deal.

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F....'s avatar

It should be - AIPAC was required to register as a foreign agent but they never did - we do not even need a microscope to see that the extend of their influence over politici places them in a serious conflict of interest.

As for the genocide....

''International law has been trashed by the actions of the Israeli military and their allies who look on at what's been happening in Gaza and then continue to provide all kinds of support''.

To provide support for the genocide also constitutes a war crime.

Seen this >> 'What did Al Jazeera’s investigation into Israeli war crimes reveal <<

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/10/3/what-did-al-jazeeras-investigation-into-israeli-war-crimes-in-gaza-reveal

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John Corstvet's avatar

The lawmakers in Washington have “babysitters” paid for by AIPAC watching them to make sure they vote on bills correctly. If they vote correctly, they get $millions in their reelection campaign. If they don’t, their opponent gets the money.

That has to end.

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Sam's avatar

Just like corporate media has an Israeli babysitter who decides what they can say.

Shitlibs are still going on about Russia Russia Russia and yet they stay silent on Israel actually buying out our government. I’ve called them on this so many years, but it never gets through to them.

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F....'s avatar

It is my understanding that one of them even has an office in the White House!

Cynthia Mckinney revealed the pledge that you mentioned - I've concluded that this does not only occur in the US but includes US vassal states although they get different rewards like for example cushy and lucrative appointments after their stint as public servant is over.

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TS's avatar

My hypothesis is that those million-dollar book deals by ghost writers they all get offered is just money laundering.

Just like Hilary Clinton's "speeches" to Goldman Sachs, for which she could never produce a text, or a subject -- something she could have made up! I think they wrote her checks for speeches she never made. More money laundering.

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F....'s avatar

Your hypothesis makes perfect sense.

Bribery is legal in the US, the consequences have worldwide implications.

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Joy in HK fiFP's avatar

I voted for Cynthia!

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Feral Finster's avatar

You'd think that people would learn, but as the dog returneth to its vomit, so the fool returneth to his folly.

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gypsy33's avatar

Said as only a feline can, Feral 😁

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Terrance Ó Domhnaill's avatar

Very well said. A good rant against the imperialists. Something I have been doing for months and months on my podcast. So far, all it's done is make me feel a little better for a short bit. I do want to commend the hundreds of thousands of protestors around the world for taking to the streets in support of Palestine this weekend. Now if only we could use that energy to take down the war mongering governments everywhere and learn to live in peace.

I have been watching the western governments chase that oil all over the middle east for nearly fifty years now and we see what that is bringing us. The world is on the brink of collapse because of it all.

I think of the millions of people who have died in these wars for oil since the early 1970's and it is enough to make someone scream. What's worse, is that I was an unknowing active participant as a career soldier for many, many years until I woke up to what I was doing in service to my so called, country. Now I use my voice to call them out as much as I can.

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Liana Chenoweth Kornfield's avatar

Thank you so much for using your hard won knowledgeable voice Terrance! I have been watching these western governments stealing the world's oil and resources and all the destruction, death and suffering in its wake for decades as well and it's painful to be an American and to witness the headlong descent into such blatant, selfish, out of control depravity. And for what?!?! The addictive delusion of Power and ephemeral accumulation and hoarding of money/"Profit" that's not worth the paper it's printed on? Life on Earth is sacred and a gift to all beings that we are meant to steward and to love. It's that simple. All the protesters around the world today give me hope.

And thank you Caitlin for so clearly naming the bottom line motivation, and sweeping away all the identity politics propaganda being used to confuse, divide, separate people and conquer. Thank you for your courage.

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The Revolution Continues's avatar

"They work so hard to manufacture our consent for these atrocities because they absolutely require our consent. So don’t give it to them"

It seems so easy that you wonder why more just don't put their feet down and say, "No!" I mean, talk to your average two year old... A toddler knows how to say "No!" with no problems!

We're going to have to re-connect with our inner child and go back to the basics. Killing others is bad. Just say "No!" repeatedly to anyone who thinks war/genocide is acceptable. You'll feel better and the world will become a better place the more you spread the word to others telling them to not give in to the atrocities of the status quo.

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Diana van Eyk's avatar

That's for sure! And don't let Hollywood or mainstream media or video games tell you who your enemies are either.

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CarbonCopy's avatar

Absolutely! The very fact that from the start before Vietnam WE NEVER GAVE OUR CONSENT makes every action these terrorist in our government have taken to make them an illegal government!

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Andrés Niporesas's avatar

Amazing and acute statement… Everything that has characterized the Anglo Power for the last two hundred years, the use of ‘Propaganda’ as the most powerful weapon ever (a British invention perfected and polished by their American cousins -Edward Bernays and so on-)…

A sadly truthful account of the Dystopia we are living in that nobody will ever have the slightest chance to even imagine by feeding on the Official Mass Media…

A gloomy but damn realistic depiction of what the Anglo-Zionists have made of this World…

Many thanks once again Caitlin…

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gypsy33's avatar

I am so happy NOT to be Anglo, Andres!

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Deena Stryker's avatar

YOUR BEST EVER, CATELIN! SUMS UP ALL YOU STAND FOR.

Deena Stryker

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Robert H Stiver's avatar

Thank you, Caitlin. Thank you, thank you, thank you, in fullest solidarity.

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Sam's avatar

That’s been my question.

"What kind of groveling, slobbering bootlicker would play along with this?"

Imagine spending thousands of dollars and years at college to get your journalism degree only to become a groveling, slobbering bootlicker for empire.

Thanks, Caitlin. You keep coming up with words that I use against Israel apologists.

'power-worshipping empire simp would consent to murder and abuse at mass scale'

I’m getting under their skin thanks to you. And maybe one day more of them will wake up and see how they have been used as empire simps.

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Indu Abeysekara's avatar

Caitlin is taking a stand and answering her detractors and warning others to be aware - ".... at the very least we can prevent them from stealing our dignity and manipulating us into cheering for their depravity". Preserving our dignity as global citizens of the world is crucial - not let them divide us on race, ethnicity, religion, class, or nationality. Be the human race. Say no to genocide, loud and clear. Embrace the oppressed. Maybe this is the most we can do right now but it can be the seed of a movement for justice and peace. And of course the preservation of the planet.

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jamenta's avatar

Yes. But its going to be real hard when they start locking us up. I'm getting to old for this shit. :(

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Indu Abeysekara's avatar

Me too, jamenta. But we can always talk or write, have the correct attitude, and compassion for ourselves and others.

Be safe and be well.

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jamenta's avatar

Something Victor Frankl wrote about, having a correct attitude is meaningful. But William James would often wonder if simple "Response" is enough for a life? And is there anything more?

You be safe and well too.

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Joy in HK fiFP's avatar

I believe that the correct attitude, awareness of the facts, and truth seeking, are some of the best starting places for finding effective actions.

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jamenta's avatar

Yes. But is just being "aware" really enough? With no possibility of actual concrete change on the horizon? For some, perhaps it is, but for others - water from the moon.

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gypsy33's avatar

Indu

Jamenta’s remark is why we need to fully arm ourselves. Some of my fellow leftists criticize me for this, and at one time I was one of the most anti-gun individuals you could imagine.

Until I realized that at some point our own government is going to go all Gulag Archepeligo on us.

The Revolution is near.

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