Listen to a reading of this article: My sources corroborate Seymour Hersh's report that the US was behind the Nord Stream pipeline sabotage. (My sources are logic, common sense, and public statements by US government officials.) If Putin and senior Russian officials had said what Biden and senior US officials have been saying about how much they hate the Nord Stream pipelines and how great it is that they were bombed, every member of the western political/media class would blame Russia for the bombing, and we would never hear the end of it.
I got banned from reddit world news for directly quoting what anthony blinken and victoria nuland said about Nordstrom. Spreading Misinformation apparently, censorship gone to the next level
Flightradar24 data analyzed by Sputnik shows that, between June 8 and June 16 of last year, German and US maritime surveillance aircraft P-3 Orion and P-8 Poseidon carried out regular flights over the sites of future Nord Stream explosions.
Saying how you will be blowing something up, blowing that thing up, saying how its great that the thing is blown up, and then saying you didn't do it to peoples faces is some freaky power move. The fact the media and lots of subservient sycophants (who know full well their masters did it) but are falling over themselves to repeat the flagrant childish lie, says something about the human condition.
My faith in humanity was already pretty low pre-2020, but has now reached rock bottom, getting very close to zero. The vast majority of people seem to be incapable of thinking in any logical manner and uninterested in reasoning about issues any more complex than what to have for dinner. How the hell did mankind manage to survive this long and acquire this level of technology?!
I hate it when people use the worst behavior of human beings to point out "human nature," or "the human condition." Our better tendencies, such as altruism, selflessness (which Caitlin exemplifies), and compassion are equally part of the human condition.
You're not taking into account that propaganda is directed towards the most basic emotions, or that we are the most heavily propagandized people in the world.
Most people are raised to trust authorities. Alexandr Solzhenhitsyn said in The Gulag Archipelago that the Russian people trusted their government, so when their neighbor was dragged out of his apartment at 2 am, they said that he must have done something wrong. When it was their turn to be dragged out of their apartment, they thought it was a mistake and that everything would be cleared up when they got into court. It wasn't until they arrived at the gulag that they realized what a fraud it was.
Why wouldn't Americans trust their government, especially since we have all been told since childhood that America is the best (American exceptionalism)? The Russians were told that their country was the best.
I think that it is a stretch to extrapolate from what we are going through now to attribute it to "the human condition," always and forever inescapable.
You misspelled "Oh I see you have provided me with a link which proves me wrong. I will now revise my position in light of this new information like an adult instead of acting like an infantile troll."
That's a different quote. The fact that US officials have been openly shitting on Nord Stream both before and after the bombing validates my point, not yours.
On February 8, Pulitzer-prize-winning journalist Seymour Hersh published an article on the US online platform Substack detailing the Biden administration’s plot to destroy Russia’s Nord Stream pipeline network. The blasts occurred on September 26 at three of the four strings of Nord Stream 1 and 2 underwater pipelines, which were built to carry a combined 110 billion cubic meters of Russian gas to Europe annually. According to Hersh, the plan was carried out by US operatives in coordination and collaboration with the Norwegian Secret Service and Navy.
Honestly, the pot would probably help him on a net basis. On the other hand, those 132 purple pills with the letter E on them he's sucking down are blowing everyone an ill wind.
Why, when your evil imaginary bogeyman can order Gazprom to do whatever he wants? Your emotions are invalid, irrelevant, and a waste of everyone's time.
"Still blows my mind how the empire can rob Americans blind, keep them poor, deprive them of all normal social safety nets, oppress them, exploit them, throw them into the largest prison system on earth, work them into the ground, and then convince them to be angry at China."
This. It's almost magical how the ordinary person will blame some foreign country for their suffering and never think once that their own government could be behind all the evil they're experiencing. The mental manipulation begins early, maybe even before birth. Perhaps it's even something they're putting into the water. You never know. How can you put something past a government that would openly brag about blowing up another country's pipeline and risk a nuclear war?
The US is the most propagandized country I've ever been to, and I've been to a lot (but not North Korea). If you tell a European that little US kids stand up every morning, put their hands over their hearts and say a pledge of allegience to the flag, you'll usually get a very incredulous look. If you know the European well and/or they had older relatives who grew up under the Nazis or Stalin, they'll note that what the US still does is what those most authoritarian of European governments did.
The point is that US propaganda starts immediately, and is ubiquitous. If you don't travel abroad, and most Americans don't, you won't have any idea how different the news about the US and the world is inside and outside the US. It is infuriating, but it is hard to be mad at average Americans who are basically born into a cult and never leave the compound.
Why would anybody blow up something that is "dead"? Gazprom could just shut the valve on the pipeline and shut it down. There's no need to waste expensive and dangerous explosives to stop the flow of LNG. There's no motive to blow the Nordstream up except to get rid of the competition for the new Baltic Pipeline built by Poland, Denmark and Norway. They're making money hand over fist, as is the US, now the world's largest exporter of LNG next to Qatar. The motive here is greed, pure and simple--the greed of the US and NATO countries who didn't like cheap Russian LNG flooding the market. And who suffers? Just the people in Europe this winter who can't afford to heat their homes. So, stop playing the "Putin Bad Man!" card over and over, Gene. It's the greed of the US and NATO oil corporations who are the "Bad Men" in this instance. And it could lead to WWIII and get us all killed. (Better stop putting up these nonsensical comments and get your bomb shelter ready.)
Thankfully, so far the winter here in Europe has been mild, but the political fallout and money spent filling the gas reserves in Germany are both not small. Next winter? Who knows.
What motive is that? Putin doesn't need to blow up his own pipeline to prevent gas from flowing to Europe. That is asinine. If someone wanted to use NS2 as a bargaining chip, they stop transporting gas through the pipeline. Only a complete moron blows up their own pipeline leaving themselves nothing to bargain with. What would Putin gain from blowing it up? Russia invested money in NS2, never transported and sold energy from it and blew it up to gain what?
Russia didn't gain anything directly from the pipeline being blown up.
Subsequently, Russia probably gained more sympathy followed by energy trade from their partners, allies (call them what you will) for being yet again another victim of US terrorism and bullying.
So what if Nuland pronounced anything! Nuland pronouncing something doesn't automatically make it so. NS2 wasn't physically dead or incapable of transporting gas after Nuland's announcement.
Let's assume NS2 was politically dead which I believe is what Nuland meant. Something politically dead is not physically dead. You can revive political projects and easily resume gas transportation if the infrastructure is intact.
Nuland isn't eternal and neither is her power, influence and words.
Thank you Caitlin for another diagnosis of propaganda. Why is it when I first heard the story of Nord Stream 1/2 explosion I knew instantly it was a u.s. act of war and possibly a war crime. Why did I at first thought it was my own country? I work with many of the brightest people in science and during a coffee discussion I mentioned the explosions and asked what people around thought had happened. All most all said "Oh the Russians did it" I asked why would the Russians blow up a pipeline they held control of the output? A visiting Italian suggested it was to avoid payment of fines. I laughed you mean fines they wouldn't pay on a contract that was no longer valid? Blank stares. Why was everyone so willing to believe the bulls shit so quickly, brilliant people, people from different cultures, countries, sexes, races all wanted to believe the Russians did it. We have many Russians at the lab , friends and many of those same people turn their backs on them. Why? Now it's the Chinese who will face that same ignorance from brilliant people. Why? I know the science of nuclear weapons and their detonations, after effects, trained in radiation work , radiation source work and our gov. is insane thinking nuclear war is winnable. This Othering is where we are headed, war, nuclear war. When did boomers become so accepting of war? As a boomer myself, I am horrified seeing people I marched in the streets , sit-ins over Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan. Why? Capitalism is dying and it is reaching out in it's death throes trying to destroy in a very creative destruction, to rebuild and transfer the remaining wealth? Hopefully I am wrong, I wrote a story which now seems like current events, Run to the Light. BTW, when you see that bright light, don't try to run away, run to it. I should delete this because it's so fucking horrible to think it, but, I'm not and why? I'm sorry.
Glad you didn't delete your comment. It's good to vent. I agree with what you wrote but couldn't have said it as well, so thanks. I am a 60 yr old boomer, nearly 61. I feel every day that I am going through a grieving process losing the country I once loved and grew up in. The truth is painful af. Being awake is not easy. Obviously that is why it is so easy to feed the sheep the propaganda. Tastes better. Easier to digest. The USA has been captured. Very sad times.
Thank you for your kind words. We are not alone in facing what's coming. There are a few of us awakening (love your words : ) Caitlin not only breaks through the propaganda she allows us to find each other. Much love to you.
I haven't published it yet. I write for myself and many times I don't even like my own work ha. Dark Matter Zombies, first experimental discovery of Dark Matter (Dark Matter Universe) , Dirty Dozen to Mars , climate change , resource depletion with a gay android. Run to the Light, waking at 03:00 a.m. with the same dread knowing the best path is into the Neutron shower. Heroes of the Mountain, true story about friends on a telescope I work at helping homeless family move into their own home during Covid : ) i cry when I read it.
Oh, that's Sawant's group is it, one of the NGOs in a professional-managerial class coalition that captured r/antiwork and turned it into a working class fetish group, in a rehearsal for all this platform censorship. Yeah, nah.
Agreed 100%, the quotes from the imperialists regarding Nordstream 2 make no sense unless you take them literally. So they confess to the world while trying to keep a huge international operation with lots of moving parts secret. Besides being evil they are stupid.
Wikipedia says (sabotage 2022 Nord Stream pipeline): "February 2023, The Times reported that Russia had begun estimating repair costs, put at about $500 million." Where did you hear it is operable?
Even if it were proven that Hersh's source were the Town Drunk on a bad case of the DTs (and it has crossed my mind that this may be a psyop), logic, evidence and statements all indicate that the US or its satraps are responsible.
And we all can see the supine nature of the European press and political establishment.
Well, the MH17 airliner shootdown was purportedly investigated by a self-appointed "international commission" chaired by the Netherlands, with Ukraine not only invited to participate, but authorized to determine what evidence it was to provide and to prevent release of any evidence or reports it felt were damaging.
Malaysia, as owner of the airliner that was shot down, was not invited to participate in this commission. Needless to say, neither Russia nor the breakaway republics were invited either, although the Malaysian government did say that Russia and the republics were open and cooperative with their investigators, while the Ukrainians were not.
Of course, Ukraine had military radars operating in the area of the MH17 catastrophe, which information from which would have established once and for all what happened. Ukraine has refused to release this information. Ukraine also had S300 missile batteries operating in the area, and has form in shooting down airliners, then vehemently denying responsibility.
Now, I cannot say who shot down MH17 or how, but the process used to pin the blame on the Donbass rebels certainly looks like the process would expect to see in a kangaroo court. This in turn begs the question of why everyone involved was so afraid of a less flagrantly dishonest proceeding, and why everyone generally acts like they sure have something to hide.
From the very beginning I wondered why they allowed a civilian airliner over an area of war (Fedex pilots asked for many years to have some deflection for missiles available on their airplanes) - so whatever happened there was an UNNECESSARY tragedy (see the rather 'recent' incident with the Ukrainian airliner from Teheran - military on high alert - catastrophe ...)
Some local governments and businesses fly the American flag and below it the Ukrainian one. Perfect combination and very appropriate as both are pro-Nazi. I would add a swastika too to stress the point.
Caitlin Johnstone: "My sources corroborate Seymour Hersh's report that the US was behind the Nord Stream pipeline sabotage. (My sources are logic, common sense, and public statements by US government officials.)"
Love it. Caitlin's sources ~ logic and common sense ~ are the greatest assets any woman or man may hold. (Though "public statements by US government officials" tend towards the problematical, i.e. lies that lie beneath Beezlebub's burning abyss.)
Bombing of Nord Stream was such a stupid move from every perspective that you have to suspect hidden, far removed objectives. The bombing did not figure one iota in Russia's bottom line economically, which is as healthy as all-getout. Europe still uses Russian oil, and little of any other kind, but pays more for it through middle man, India. So what is that about? Well, it seems like impoverishment of Europe is the picture. But why? Clue: US debt of $32 trillion and an assessment made 20 + years ago that its financial obligations re social programs, medicaid, medicare, pensions, etc., would be unmeetable down the road. They're there now. And Canada's depitty PM made a famous (infamous) observation just recently at the WEF: she asked rhetorically if the US middle class "deserved" 10x the wages of global south countries- "did they work 10x harder"? It would seem this neoliberal mouthpiece is in on the severe austerity idea for US workers - which would make European prosperity an object of envy - even prompt immigration. So, perhaps an even playing field was made doable with the Nord Stream pipeline "incident" - about which Biden threatened (boasted) some time ahead of the fact? And let's not forget the milking of Europe in the Ukraine debacle cause.
It's not true that America's financial obligations are or will be unmeetable. Any country can always pay its debts if they are made in its own currency. The US has a fiat currency, which means that it creates the money every time Congress passes an appropriations bill. It isn't the safety net (or what's left of it) that is wrecking the economy.
PLEASE learn Modern Monetary Theory (MMT) and you will understand all this. You can find it on The Rogue Scholar, Macro'n'Cheese, or MMT Mondays.
We all need to learn how the monetary system works to protect ourselves from the lies that the politicians tell us, taking advantage of our lack of information.
I merely repeat what I heard about 20 yrs ago from official US government sources. I have no doubt they have the money, they've spent billions already on Ukraine's phoney war, they exempt the very rich from progressive taxes, sometimes from any tax, but spending it on people programs is not a big priority. What do you make of Canada's deputy prime minister's remarks at the WEF to the effect US middle class are making too much money? The truth is they are marginalized.
It was not a stupid move at the time, as long as the US believes (so far correctly) that Germany will never break from the US. As long as the war goes on, I think that will hold. I digress. At the time the US blew up NS II, there were protests in the streets of Northern Germany specifically calling for an end to Russian sanctions and for NS I and II to be turned on.
Scholz is weak. Lower level German politicians were starting to waver. The Polish pipeline was on on-line yet. Politically the coalition was really starting to crack.
The act of war against Germany and Russia removed the possibility of Germany backsliding on Russia.
[Edit] At least in the short run. Once the war ends, things are going to get interesting.
Don't discount the possibility of an internal struggle in the US between different factions of the ruling class, which could lead to some strange and rather hubristic maneuvers. For instance, one aim of an apparently insane act like destroying the resources of an important ally could be a demonstration that one is "crazy" and therefore dangerously unpredictable, thereby pushing the opponent into being overly cautious. Hitler got a long way simply by doing things his opponents couldn't believe he was doing. Of course, eventually one runs out of luck, but I don't think our PMC suckers have received this memo yet.
The NS2 "bombshell" would be significant IF we had a reasonable expectation that someone, anyone, would be held accountable for the disaster. No one will be, so the real "bombshell" is, "the U.S. Empire destroyed the Nordstream 2 pipeline, everybody knew it, and . . . so what?!!"
Yeah it’s not like there was any accountability over the made up WMDs in Iraq that lead to hundreds of thousands of people dying in a pointless war that was merely fought to stroke bush 2’s ego of finishing his fathers job.
There wasn't any accountability for the deaths of American citizens in 9/11, the false flag that the Bush administration used to make the American people go along with the attack on Iraq.
Watch Architects and Engineers Talk About 9/11 on YouTube. I think it's still up.
Exactly, it is now simply a fact on the ground. If Hersch is correct, this act is an extremely powerful statement by the US ruling class and Pentagon establishment with respect to European countries. This lays bare the thinking in Washington and New York that perhaps Europe is "drifting". Italy and Greece made some "unwise" deals with China regarding its Belt and Road Initiative. Perhaps Washington is preparing more punitive action regarding "wayward" allies and their pesky socialist political parties.
Well said! I was thinking the same about how they refer to Sy Hersch revelations as "self published" & Reuters now with "blog". I was noticing the other night how much worse Reuters has gotten. The fact that a great investigative reporter of the proven trustworthy character and calibre of Seymour Hersch was obviously turned down by the big news giants that maybe in the decades of Vietnam war did publish his explosive expose of the Mai Lai massacre that opened eyes to the true horror of USA Empire's Vietnam War, this only shows how much worse the ability for truth to get out from the empire's mainstream news courtiers is, the empire is naked it has no moral clothes and it has commited an act of war against Europe. Trying to burn Europe's bridges like some demented conquistador burning his follower's ships so their is no way back, and demanding his poor sailors continue on to rape the New World treasures. I think this revelation of the betrayal of Europeans may be a slow but powerful burn, I hope it helps usurp our European leaders going along with the empire's homicidal escalation and completly manafactured drive for confrontation instead of the obvious and long waiting multi polar mutual interest practical co-operation for a sustainable future together thats been long on offer from Russia and China. Anyway well done Caitlin helping to turn up the wake up call on truth of Nord Stream attack and the naked lies of the Emperor!
“Progressive” by my own reckoning means 1) Being aware that the two-party adversarial system is fake; 2) Understanding that the U.S. Constitution is a document penned by and for the propertied and privileged; 3) The liberal-capitalist system is on a course toward its own destruction; and 4) No branch of the USG can be reformed, not the POTUS, not the SCOTUS, not the legislative bodies.
My appreciation for Bernie Sanders may appear contradictory or hypocritical for someone who considers himself a “progressive,” but, while I am very disappointed by Sanders’ silence on the proxy war and imperialism, I try to be a realist, and recognize that you can’t teach crawling infants how to run. Sanders may reject my fourth criteria, but I am not certain, given his experiences that he holds a quixotic zeal to reform the Democrat Party. I do believe that he puts himself in the sandbox where the majority of voting Americans reside, to cajole them into recognizing what they have lost to legalized thievery.
Honesty is a rare trait on Capital Hill, and Sanders is the only authentic speaker who addresses the loss of democracy, and the reality of oligarchy that has transpired in the primacy of the baby boomer generation. He’s one voice struggling to be heard amidst a din of distracting noise.
On the subject of distraction, I think it is an acquired pastime of a majority in my country. The pandemic exposed how fragile is the propagandized mind, and how Americans have never learned to be still with their thoughts. When people lost their favorite distractions, the company of friends, the option to dine out regularly, the addiction to live sports and concerts, depression became alarmingly prevalent, adult tantrums became more commonplace, and, of course, consumption of all manner of goods was diminished, causing vendors and businesses to wreak havoc on many personal incomes. It was not our best moment. I may be naive in thinking that it is our appalling, systemic contempt for public education that has corroded our culture from within. TV has become the oracle of pedestrian knowledge, while libraries and schools have been effectively ignored. This is the very welcome mat for propaganda!
“The compilations of evidence we've been seeing that the US was behind this attack look a lot like the evidence compiled by 9/11 conspiracy analysts, except the evidence is way stronger and US officials are pretty much saying they did it in plain English.”
9/11 is the most obvious conspiracy of all time, and one assumes all your readers know it by this point, so you can give up the fence sitting Caitlin.
After reading a ways down this thread, I say--please do ban Gene Frenkle. I know it goes against your values to ban anyone, but when someone posts dozens and dozens of comments--based on nonsense--on one post, they're wasting the time of everyone who reads comments. Of which I'm one--the best sites are often ones where the comments create a conversation that may be as enlightening as the posts.
I can appreciate that. The problem is when you get a dozen or more Frenkles (or even one Frenkle using a dozen troll monikers) trolling the message board and lowering the signal-to-noise ratio to the point where nobody can carry on a discussion.
I don't agree that the evidence behind the pipeline is "way stronger" than the evidence for the US being behind 9/11. They are both what I call "transparent conspiracies," which have become the order of the day. They WANT us to know.
I got banned from reddit world news for directly quoting what anthony blinken and victoria nuland said about Nordstrom. Spreading Misinformation apparently, censorship gone to the next level
Their Director of Policy is a "former" think-tankie. And, about /r/worldnews,
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8506313/Ghislaine-Maxwell-secretly-operated-one-powerful-Reddit-accounts-time.html
Stop spamming my comments section or I'm banning you too. You have your own blog to perform The Gene Frenkle Show on.
Thank you!
Okie doke.
Wow I didn't know Blinken had a problem with Nordstrom. Did he try to return an expensive tie or dress shirt?
Love it, sometimes all you can do is laugh at the destruction. I'll post something along the same line for you.
Flightradar24 data analyzed by Sputnik shows that, between June 8 and June 16 of last year, German and US maritime surveillance aircraft P-3 Orion and P-8 Poseidon carried out regular flights over the sites of future Nord Stream explosions.
https://www.veteranstoday.com/2023/02/11/flightradar24-confirmed-hersh-investigation-on-nord-stream-sabotage-nato-planes-over-sites-during-baltops-exercise/
Saying how you will be blowing something up, blowing that thing up, saying how its great that the thing is blown up, and then saying you didn't do it to peoples faces is some freaky power move. The fact the media and lots of subservient sycophants (who know full well their masters did it) but are falling over themselves to repeat the flagrant childish lie, says something about the human condition.
My faith in humanity was already pretty low pre-2020, but has now reached rock bottom, getting very close to zero. The vast majority of people seem to be incapable of thinking in any logical manner and uninterested in reasoning about issues any more complex than what to have for dinner. How the hell did mankind manage to survive this long and acquire this level of technology?!
"The unleashed power of the atom has changed everything save our modes of thinking and we thus drift toward unparalleled catastrophe." ~Einstein
let us hope the mushrooms*
can save us Before the
Reactionaries'
mushroom
clouds
arrive.
.
*they
can Cure
a Lottta things.
maybe even War.
.
did Einstein
try psychedelics?
He played piano. Do you play piano?
not quite the same
(as far as I know) but
.
I play CDs
& youtubes
& things both
percussive & handy.
.
how 'bout you jamenta?
are you musical?
I'm a wanna-be Einstein, and do play piano.
Violin.
my FAVORITE little Piano 'operetta'
is Elton Johns' 'Indian Sunset.'
it's to Die for.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKMO9wq91RI&ab_channel=UniversalWarehouse
I think George Orwell wrote a few books on this very topic.
I hate it when people use the worst behavior of human beings to point out "human nature," or "the human condition." Our better tendencies, such as altruism, selflessness (which Caitlin exemplifies), and compassion are equally part of the human condition.
You're not taking into account that propaganda is directed towards the most basic emotions, or that we are the most heavily propagandized people in the world.
Most people are raised to trust authorities. Alexandr Solzhenhitsyn said in The Gulag Archipelago that the Russian people trusted their government, so when their neighbor was dragged out of his apartment at 2 am, they said that he must have done something wrong. When it was their turn to be dragged out of their apartment, they thought it was a mistake and that everything would be cleared up when they got into court. It wasn't until they arrived at the gulag that they realized what a fraud it was.
Why wouldn't Americans trust their government, especially since we have all been told since childhood that America is the best (American exceptionalism)? The Russians were told that their country was the best.
I think that it is a stretch to extrapolate from what we are going through now to attribute it to "the human condition," always and forever inescapable.
Great headline! If only people made use of those kinds of sources more frequently.
No, you are wrong. Nuland's comments were made during a Senate hearing last month. https://www.newsweek.com/russia-warning-us-white-house-nord-stream-sabotage-1780101
You misspelled "Oh I see you have provided me with a link which proves me wrong. I will now revise my position in light of this new information like an adult instead of acting like an infantile troll."
That's a different quote. The fact that US officials have been openly shitting on Nord Stream both before and after the bombing validates my point, not yours.
You should change your source of info .
On February 8, Pulitzer-prize-winning journalist Seymour Hersh published an article on the US online platform Substack detailing the Biden administration’s plot to destroy Russia’s Nord Stream pipeline network. The blasts occurred on September 26 at three of the four strings of Nord Stream 1 and 2 underwater pipelines, which were built to carry a combined 110 billion cubic meters of Russian gas to Europe annually. According to Hersh, the plan was carried out by US operatives in coordination and collaboration with the Norwegian Secret Service and Navy.
https://www.veteranstoday.com/2023/02/12/why-hershs-nord-stream-bombshell-may-become-legal-nightmare-for-team-biden-its-nordic-allies/
Don't do drugs.
Agreeing with Stinky on your need to give up bong.
Honestly, the pot would probably help him on a net basis. On the other hand, those 132 purple pills with the letter E on them he's sucking down are blowing everyone an ill wind.
Why, when your evil imaginary bogeyman can order Gazprom to do whatever he wants? Your emotions are invalid, irrelevant, and a waste of everyone's time.
You are wrong, Nord Stream 1 is two pipelines and Nord Stream 2 is also two pipelines. Hunks of metal.
"Still blows my mind how the empire can rob Americans blind, keep them poor, deprive them of all normal social safety nets, oppress them, exploit them, throw them into the largest prison system on earth, work them into the ground, and then convince them to be angry at China."
This. It's almost magical how the ordinary person will blame some foreign country for their suffering and never think once that their own government could be behind all the evil they're experiencing. The mental manipulation begins early, maybe even before birth. Perhaps it's even something they're putting into the water. You never know. How can you put something past a government that would openly brag about blowing up another country's pipeline and risk a nuclear war?
The US is the most propagandized country I've ever been to, and I've been to a lot (but not North Korea). If you tell a European that little US kids stand up every morning, put their hands over their hearts and say a pledge of allegience to the flag, you'll usually get a very incredulous look. If you know the European well and/or they had older relatives who grew up under the Nazis or Stalin, they'll note that what the US still does is what those most authoritarian of European governments did.
The point is that US propaganda starts immediately, and is ubiquitous. If you don't travel abroad, and most Americans don't, you won't have any idea how different the news about the US and the world is inside and outside the US. It is infuriating, but it is hard to be mad at average Americans who are basically born into a cult and never leave the compound.
This is essentially what I told her.
Why would anybody blow up something that is "dead"? Gazprom could just shut the valve on the pipeline and shut it down. There's no need to waste expensive and dangerous explosives to stop the flow of LNG. There's no motive to blow the Nordstream up except to get rid of the competition for the new Baltic Pipeline built by Poland, Denmark and Norway. They're making money hand over fist, as is the US, now the world's largest exporter of LNG next to Qatar. The motive here is greed, pure and simple--the greed of the US and NATO countries who didn't like cheap Russian LNG flooding the market. And who suffers? Just the people in Europe this winter who can't afford to heat their homes. So, stop playing the "Putin Bad Man!" card over and over, Gene. It's the greed of the US and NATO oil corporations who are the "Bad Men" in this instance. And it could lead to WWIII and get us all killed. (Better stop putting up these nonsensical comments and get your bomb shelter ready.)
Thankfully, so far the winter here in Europe has been mild, but the political fallout and money spent filling the gas reserves in Germany are both not small. Next winter? Who knows.
What motive is that? Putin doesn't need to blow up his own pipeline to prevent gas from flowing to Europe. That is asinine. If someone wanted to use NS2 as a bargaining chip, they stop transporting gas through the pipeline. Only a complete moron blows up their own pipeline leaving themselves nothing to bargain with. What would Putin gain from blowing it up? Russia invested money in NS2, never transported and sold energy from it and blew it up to gain what?
Russia didn't gain anything directly from the pipeline being blown up.
Subsequently, Russia probably gained more sympathy followed by energy trade from their partners, allies (call them what you will) for being yet again another victim of US terrorism and bullying.
Give it a rest. Don’t you have your own platform to rant on instead of repeating yourselves over and over and over…
So what if Nuland pronounced anything! Nuland pronouncing something doesn't automatically make it so. NS2 wasn't physically dead or incapable of transporting gas after Nuland's announcement.
Let's assume NS2 was politically dead which I believe is what Nuland meant. Something politically dead is not physically dead. You can revive political projects and easily resume gas transportation if the infrastructure is intact.
Nuland isn't eternal and neither is her power, influence and words.
Thank you Caitlin for another diagnosis of propaganda. Why is it when I first heard the story of Nord Stream 1/2 explosion I knew instantly it was a u.s. act of war and possibly a war crime. Why did I at first thought it was my own country? I work with many of the brightest people in science and during a coffee discussion I mentioned the explosions and asked what people around thought had happened. All most all said "Oh the Russians did it" I asked why would the Russians blow up a pipeline they held control of the output? A visiting Italian suggested it was to avoid payment of fines. I laughed you mean fines they wouldn't pay on a contract that was no longer valid? Blank stares. Why was everyone so willing to believe the bulls shit so quickly, brilliant people, people from different cultures, countries, sexes, races all wanted to believe the Russians did it. We have many Russians at the lab , friends and many of those same people turn their backs on them. Why? Now it's the Chinese who will face that same ignorance from brilliant people. Why? I know the science of nuclear weapons and their detonations, after effects, trained in radiation work , radiation source work and our gov. is insane thinking nuclear war is winnable. This Othering is where we are headed, war, nuclear war. When did boomers become so accepting of war? As a boomer myself, I am horrified seeing people I marched in the streets , sit-ins over Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan. Why? Capitalism is dying and it is reaching out in it's death throes trying to destroy in a very creative destruction, to rebuild and transfer the remaining wealth? Hopefully I am wrong, I wrote a story which now seems like current events, Run to the Light. BTW, when you see that bright light, don't try to run away, run to it. I should delete this because it's so fucking horrible to think it, but, I'm not and why? I'm sorry.
I have always hoped that I would be at Ground Zero if worst comes to worst.
Grim and slightly angry upvote.
Landru
Glad you didn't delete your comment. It's good to vent. I agree with what you wrote but couldn't have said it as well, so thanks. I am a 60 yr old boomer, nearly 61. I feel every day that I am going through a grieving process losing the country I once loved and grew up in. The truth is painful af. Being awake is not easy. Obviously that is why it is so easy to feed the sheep the propaganda. Tastes better. Easier to digest. The USA has been captured. Very sad times.
Hi Michelle,
Thank you for your kind words. We are not alone in facing what's coming. There are a few of us awakening (love your words : ) Caitlin not only breaks through the propaganda she allows us to find each other. Much love to you.
Landru
And many blessings to you & all that you love!
Where can I find your story?
I haven't published it yet. I write for myself and many times I don't even like my own work ha. Dark Matter Zombies, first experimental discovery of Dark Matter (Dark Matter Universe) , Dirty Dozen to Mars , climate change , resource depletion with a gay android. Run to the Light, waking at 03:00 a.m. with the same dread knowing the best path is into the Neutron shower. Heroes of the Mountain, true story about friends on a telescope I work at helping homeless family move into their own home during Covid : ) i cry when I read it.
Being rude is not usually a good sales pitch.
Might have been an interesting discussion but.............. : )
As a Socialist I had hoped people would open their minds after Bernie's
valiant struggle and then he voted for war. Kshama is my remaining hope. She will
no longer hold office however, Workers Strike Back. Org is powerful with her at the lead : ) Solidarity friend.
Oh, that's Sawant's group is it, one of the NGOs in a professional-managerial class coalition that captured r/antiwork and turned it into a working class fetish group, in a rehearsal for all this platform censorship. Yeah, nah.
I am not a Democrat , your insult is hollow.
Agreed 100%, the quotes from the imperialists regarding Nordstream 2 make no sense unless you take them literally. So they confess to the world while trying to keep a huge international operation with lots of moving parts secret. Besides being evil they are stupid.
Wikipedia says (sabotage 2022 Nord Stream pipeline): "February 2023, The Times reported that Russia had begun estimating repair costs, put at about $500 million." Where did you hear it is operable?
And then there's the fact that neither the Swedish nor the German governments are investigating the destruction of the pipelines.
It doesn't take a Perry Mason to figure out why.
Why Hersh’s Nord Stream Bombshell May Become Legal Nightmare for Team Biden & Its Nordic Allies
1 ) https://www.veteranstoday.com/2023/02/12/why-hershs-nord-stream-bombshell-may-become-legal-nightmare-for-team-biden-its-nordic-allies/
2) https://www.unz.com/mwhitney/what-hersh-got-wrong/
Blackbird
Great links, thanks for posting!
Even if it were proven that Hersh's source were the Town Drunk on a bad case of the DTs (and it has crossed my mind that this may be a psyop), logic, evidence and statements all indicate that the US or its satraps are responsible.
And we all can see the supine nature of the European press and political establishment.
I thought the same about the lack of an international commission to investigate the killings at Bucha.
Well, the MH17 airliner shootdown was purportedly investigated by a self-appointed "international commission" chaired by the Netherlands, with Ukraine not only invited to participate, but authorized to determine what evidence it was to provide and to prevent release of any evidence or reports it felt were damaging.
Malaysia, as owner of the airliner that was shot down, was not invited to participate in this commission. Needless to say, neither Russia nor the breakaway republics were invited either, although the Malaysian government did say that Russia and the republics were open and cooperative with their investigators, while the Ukrainians were not.
Of course, Ukraine had military radars operating in the area of the MH17 catastrophe, which information from which would have established once and for all what happened. Ukraine has refused to release this information. Ukraine also had S300 missile batteries operating in the area, and has form in shooting down airliners, then vehemently denying responsibility.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia_Airlines_Flight_1812
Now, I cannot say who shot down MH17 or how, but the process used to pin the blame on the Donbass rebels certainly looks like the process would expect to see in a kangaroo court. This in turn begs the question of why everyone involved was so afraid of a less flagrantly dishonest proceeding, and why everyone generally acts like they sure have something to hide.
From the very beginning I wondered why they allowed a civilian airliner over an area of war (Fedex pilots asked for many years to have some deflection for missiles available on their airplanes) - so whatever happened there was an UNNECESSARY tragedy (see the rather 'recent' incident with the Ukrainian airliner from Teheran - military on high alert - catastrophe ...)
No, it was very necessary as sanctions on Russia followed immediately, before even any investigation was done. Cui bono we ask.
Joe Biden's smirk in the linked clip after bragging to the press that he'll end the Nordstream pipeline is wicked and disgusting.
Incredibly, Biden said this and smirked as Germany's Chancellor was standing right next to him. Unbelievable.
I've grown to hate everything the U.S. stands for.
Me too. I can't stand to see the American flag any more.
I'm getting that way about the American flag, too.
(But I don't consider nations as objects for reverence in general.)
Some local governments and businesses fly the American flag and below it the Ukrainian one. Perfect combination and very appropriate as both are pro-Nazi. I would add a swastika too to stress the point.
Biden has some extreme need to let everyone know that he really is a tough guy.
Yes, " Your fat" to a person in the crowd asking a question.
Caitlin Johnstone: "My sources corroborate Seymour Hersh's report that the US was behind the Nord Stream pipeline sabotage. (My sources are logic, common sense, and public statements by US government officials.)"
Love it. Caitlin's sources ~ logic and common sense ~ are the greatest assets any woman or man may hold. (Though "public statements by US government officials" tend towards the problematical, i.e. lies that lie beneath Beezlebub's burning abyss.)
Bombing of Nord Stream was such a stupid move from every perspective that you have to suspect hidden, far removed objectives. The bombing did not figure one iota in Russia's bottom line economically, which is as healthy as all-getout. Europe still uses Russian oil, and little of any other kind, but pays more for it through middle man, India. So what is that about? Well, it seems like impoverishment of Europe is the picture. But why? Clue: US debt of $32 trillion and an assessment made 20 + years ago that its financial obligations re social programs, medicaid, medicare, pensions, etc., would be unmeetable down the road. They're there now. And Canada's depitty PM made a famous (infamous) observation just recently at the WEF: she asked rhetorically if the US middle class "deserved" 10x the wages of global south countries- "did they work 10x harder"? It would seem this neoliberal mouthpiece is in on the severe austerity idea for US workers - which would make European prosperity an object of envy - even prompt immigration. So, perhaps an even playing field was made doable with the Nord Stream pipeline "incident" - about which Biden threatened (boasted) some time ahead of the fact? And let's not forget the milking of Europe in the Ukraine debacle cause.
Did he also ask if CEOs deserve 1000 times more compensation than their own workers?
Good question, and no Chrystia Freeland did not ask that most subversive all questions.
It's not true that America's financial obligations are or will be unmeetable. Any country can always pay its debts if they are made in its own currency. The US has a fiat currency, which means that it creates the money every time Congress passes an appropriations bill. It isn't the safety net (or what's left of it) that is wrecking the economy.
PLEASE learn Modern Monetary Theory (MMT) and you will understand all this. You can find it on The Rogue Scholar, Macro'n'Cheese, or MMT Mondays.
We all need to learn how the monetary system works to protect ourselves from the lies that the politicians tell us, taking advantage of our lack of information.
Aread Stephanie Kelton's book, The Deficit Myth.
I merely repeat what I heard about 20 yrs ago from official US government sources. I have no doubt they have the money, they've spent billions already on Ukraine's phoney war, they exempt the very rich from progressive taxes, sometimes from any tax, but spending it on people programs is not a big priority. What do you make of Canada's deputy prime minister's remarks at the WEF to the effect US middle class are making too much money? The truth is they are marginalized.
It was not a stupid move at the time, as long as the US believes (so far correctly) that Germany will never break from the US. As long as the war goes on, I think that will hold. I digress. At the time the US blew up NS II, there were protests in the streets of Northern Germany specifically calling for an end to Russian sanctions and for NS I and II to be turned on.
Scholz is weak. Lower level German politicians were starting to waver. The Polish pipeline was on on-line yet. Politically the coalition was really starting to crack.
The act of war against Germany and Russia removed the possibility of Germany backsliding on Russia.
[Edit] At least in the short run. Once the war ends, things are going to get interesting.
Don't discount the possibility of an internal struggle in the US between different factions of the ruling class, which could lead to some strange and rather hubristic maneuvers. For instance, one aim of an apparently insane act like destroying the resources of an important ally could be a demonstration that one is "crazy" and therefore dangerously unpredictable, thereby pushing the opponent into being overly cautious. Hitler got a long way simply by doing things his opponents couldn't believe he was doing. Of course, eventually one runs out of luck, but I don't think our PMC suckers have received this memo yet.
The NS2 "bombshell" would be significant IF we had a reasonable expectation that someone, anyone, would be held accountable for the disaster. No one will be, so the real "bombshell" is, "the U.S. Empire destroyed the Nordstream 2 pipeline, everybody knew it, and . . . so what?!!"
Yeah it’s not like there was any accountability over the made up WMDs in Iraq that lead to hundreds of thousands of people dying in a pointless war that was merely fought to stroke bush 2’s ego of finishing his fathers job.
There wasn't any accountability for the deaths of American citizens in 9/11, the false flag that the Bush administration used to make the American people go along with the attack on Iraq.
Watch Architects and Engineers Talk About 9/11 on YouTube. I think it's still up.
Yup that too
Exactly, it is now simply a fact on the ground. If Hersch is correct, this act is an extremely powerful statement by the US ruling class and Pentagon establishment with respect to European countries. This lays bare the thinking in Washington and New York that perhaps Europe is "drifting". Italy and Greece made some "unwise" deals with China regarding its Belt and Road Initiative. Perhaps Washington is preparing more punitive action regarding "wayward" allies and their pesky socialist political parties.
Well said! I was thinking the same about how they refer to Sy Hersch revelations as "self published" & Reuters now with "blog". I was noticing the other night how much worse Reuters has gotten. The fact that a great investigative reporter of the proven trustworthy character and calibre of Seymour Hersch was obviously turned down by the big news giants that maybe in the decades of Vietnam war did publish his explosive expose of the Mai Lai massacre that opened eyes to the true horror of USA Empire's Vietnam War, this only shows how much worse the ability for truth to get out from the empire's mainstream news courtiers is, the empire is naked it has no moral clothes and it has commited an act of war against Europe. Trying to burn Europe's bridges like some demented conquistador burning his follower's ships so their is no way back, and demanding his poor sailors continue on to rape the New World treasures. I think this revelation of the betrayal of Europeans may be a slow but powerful burn, I hope it helps usurp our European leaders going along with the empire's homicidal escalation and completly manafactured drive for confrontation instead of the obvious and long waiting multi polar mutual interest practical co-operation for a sustainable future together thats been long on offer from Russia and China. Anyway well done Caitlin helping to turn up the wake up call on truth of Nord Stream attack and the naked lies of the Emperor!
“Progressive” by my own reckoning means 1) Being aware that the two-party adversarial system is fake; 2) Understanding that the U.S. Constitution is a document penned by and for the propertied and privileged; 3) The liberal-capitalist system is on a course toward its own destruction; and 4) No branch of the USG can be reformed, not the POTUS, not the SCOTUS, not the legislative bodies.
My appreciation for Bernie Sanders may appear contradictory or hypocritical for someone who considers himself a “progressive,” but, while I am very disappointed by Sanders’ silence on the proxy war and imperialism, I try to be a realist, and recognize that you can’t teach crawling infants how to run. Sanders may reject my fourth criteria, but I am not certain, given his experiences that he holds a quixotic zeal to reform the Democrat Party. I do believe that he puts himself in the sandbox where the majority of voting Americans reside, to cajole them into recognizing what they have lost to legalized thievery.
Honesty is a rare trait on Capital Hill, and Sanders is the only authentic speaker who addresses the loss of democracy, and the reality of oligarchy that has transpired in the primacy of the baby boomer generation. He’s one voice struggling to be heard amidst a din of distracting noise.
On the subject of distraction, I think it is an acquired pastime of a majority in my country. The pandemic exposed how fragile is the propagandized mind, and how Americans have never learned to be still with their thoughts. When people lost their favorite distractions, the company of friends, the option to dine out regularly, the addiction to live sports and concerts, depression became alarmingly prevalent, adult tantrums became more commonplace, and, of course, consumption of all manner of goods was diminished, causing vendors and businesses to wreak havoc on many personal incomes. It was not our best moment. I may be naive in thinking that it is our appalling, systemic contempt for public education that has corroded our culture from within. TV has become the oracle of pedestrian knowledge, while libraries and schools have been effectively ignored. This is the very welcome mat for propaganda!
“The compilations of evidence we've been seeing that the US was behind this attack look a lot like the evidence compiled by 9/11 conspiracy analysts, except the evidence is way stronger and US officials are pretty much saying they did it in plain English.”
9/11 is the most obvious conspiracy of all time, and one assumes all your readers know it by this point, so you can give up the fence sitting Caitlin.
After reading a ways down this thread, I say--please do ban Gene Frenkle. I know it goes against your values to ban anyone, but when someone posts dozens and dozens of comments--based on nonsense--on one post, they're wasting the time of everyone who reads comments. Of which I'm one--the best sites are often ones where the comments create a conversation that may be as enlightening as the posts.
I read his comments and he repeats ad nauseam one comment by Nuland and extracts all kinds of meaning from that one comment that is not there.
Just stop feeding the trolls.
FYI: I mentioned you in another post on this thread.
That's a slippery slope.
I can appreciate that. The problem is when you get a dozen or more Frenkles (or even one Frenkle using a dozen troll monikers) trolling the message board and lowering the signal-to-noise ratio to the point where nobody can carry on a discussion.
Maybe the best approach is what Starry Gordon suggests later in this thread: Just don't feed the trolls.
I totally agree!
I like to make up my own mind.
I don't agree that the evidence behind the pipeline is "way stronger" than the evidence for the US being behind 9/11. They are both what I call "transparent conspiracies," which have become the order of the day. They WANT us to know.