And now, The Grayzone's Jeremy Loffredo has been seized by the IDF with other reporters for reporting on Iran's missile attack. He was quite close to IDF military installations. All but Loffredo have been released according to sources. I hope he's okay he does great work.
I absolutely will not vote for anyone who supports Israel. Israel’s actions are absolutely evil. As Noam Chomsky said evil is not a harsh enough word to describe Israel’s actions. I would add US support too as utterly evil.
Right. There is no one that doesn't support the sadistic actions of Israel. OK, Jill Stein. But, she will not hold office. The Jewish/nutty Christians have taken over the political system and the Universities in the USA. They are NOT good Americans; they are traitors who are devoted to the cause of whatever Israel wants. Now, we are probably going to war with Iran which includes Russia. WW3. Iran has done NOTHING except give support to the Palestinians who have been repeatedly decimated by the Israelis.
I sent in my ballot weeks ago and voted for Harris who announces she PLEDGES to support Israel. It makes me sick. I hate her now.
Let’s hope for popular anger and discontent to reach a critical point and wide scale efforts of civil disobedience, maybe rebellion, work toward systemic reform!!
Please consider that if anyone who cares about democracy in America, the future of the country for their children and grandchildren, about efforts to reduce climate change, and not becoming an authoritarian state headed by a dictator with right wing militias as his personal security force, then Trump cannot be elected. This is a binary choice literally good versus evil. You may not agree with all of Harris’s policies but chances are you disagree with everything Trump represents which is greed, corruption and incompetence. Please vote wisely and vote for Harris Walz. It is not hyperbole to say that the future of America depends on it.
I did vote for her. Women's rights depends on her. But, I'm hating her now for her disgusting PLEDGE to support Israel. She knows whats going on in Gaza; they all do. They just have to turn their backs on it and stand firm with the evil of Israel.
The fact remains that for any American concerned about the future of America, women’s rights, democracy and not wanting to see the convicted felon, sexual predator, racist, narcissistic, psychopath, wannabe dictator, corrupt to his core Trump in the White House needs to vote for Harris. It is that simple.
i think anyone who actually cares (who is really willing to fight for democracy, the future, children, environmental issues) would take on the duopoly. harris/walz will continue to subsidize the bullets for the snipers in the article. i think it is a bit naive to assume they're so racist they won't be able to rationalize doing the same inside the us empire.
There are flat out no good reasons to vote either party. My advice: stay away in record numbers from voting polls , but there still may be a respectable turnout due to addition of illegal ballots inthe hundreds of thousands!!!!
Illegal ballots...? How do you know that? Are you officially investigating it? Or are you just spreading whatever Trump says? Is that facts? And, have Trump presented any facts? The answer is no, no... and no
Someone is going to win. The fact remains that for any American concerned about the future of America, women’s rights, democracy and not wanting to see the convicted felon, sexual predator, racist, narcissistic, psychopath, wannabe dictator, corrupt to his core Trump in the White House needs to vote for Harris. It is that simple.
This is called Scorched Earth Combat. The other version is where attempts are made to fight a gentlemen’s war by having a modicum of respect for the enemy.
What Israel is doing is nothing short of jaw dropping to those of us who don’t hate white people. I say that because I have a sneaking suspicion that’s really why the left hates Israel in some cases. That’s not a slight but merely an observation of mine.
Doesn’t matter i don’t guess. I can certainly not condone or deny what Israel is attempting to do (genocide a race). But ONE thing must be understood. It is the same people in control (US/UK/IS). Those who green light such vile acts call the shots over here.
I am voting for Trump. My stomach turned the other day when he was wearing his beanie. It looked more like a fealty pledge to me than a photo op.
I hate to say this because the events that cause it could be extremely catastrophic for all of us. America need to be taken down a notch or two. I believe DT is best suited for this endeavor.
I have wrestled with this thought for several years now. There are no winners. It will even be hard on countries that are somewhat insulated from America’s reach. But for the sake of humanity it must be done.
Dr. Jill Stein is the only candidate that l've heard say she will end the wars. Harris is taking funding from AIPAC and Trump accepted $100 million from a Jewish friends widow (l can remember her name, sorry).
Shocking and disturbing. The arse-wipe that is the UK PM was defending the supply of armaments to Israel claiming they are for ‘her’ self defence, when this vile state has never defended ‘herself’. Her cowardly army is always the offender.
There is not a single person alive who does not have beliefs - arguably, the only one in history was the Buddha, and that was only while he was in the 'zone'.
So what you MEAN by "unbeliever", is other people who do not share your particular beliefs. And by derogatorily labeling them as "Unbelievers" rather than "Having different beliefs", you are essentially dehumanising and devaluing them.
Which is pretty bloody ironic when you are replying in horror to a post about Israeli snipers doing precisely that to Palestinian children.
You need to take a good hard look at yourself and see where you may align with the Zionists in beliefs, if for different groups.
And start checking your language.
Obviously, you have different beliefs to me. How would it feel to YOU if I called YOU an "Unbeliever"?
Do you really want to come across like one of the Western-backed/created takfiri ISIS Sunni extremists?
Know Thyself. You need to work harder on your jihad.
Not to the followers of Islam, only those Westerners who learned about it from media first, such as the otherwise superb Dune series, or the completely execrable GWB's wars oF terror.
I was corrected many many years ago by very patient sheikhs, along with other misconceptions.
Islam is not for me, but it is still a highly admirable religion, considerably better than most forms of Christianity (Excl perhaps Amish who actually live it), and even the Judaism from which they all sprang, as in theory Islam lacks racism.
The Qoran truly is an extraordinary book, filled with morality far beyond the time it was written - strict Islam's Rules of War still exceed even the Geneva Conventions in many ways, fx, and Women's Rights in Islam were nowhere near matched in Christendom until we broke the Church and achieved Secularism in the last century.
Amusingly, many Islamophobic western nazis who read the actual book end up renouncing their racism and becoming Muslims themselves, unarguably a better choice for them and the rest of us.
Here is an article backed by fact, which many people deny using a pre-scripted narrative. By saying someone is an unbeliever, you are suggesting there is reason to believe a pre-scripted narrative over facts. There’s no reason to choose a narrative over fact at any time, for any purpose. How do you draw the line?
Believe or not however you choose. I know my own beliefs on the matter and that is all that is important to myself. . That is everyone's free will choice to accept or not.
We have solid proof that they are. Accounts from emergency room physicians in Gaza of multiple children targeted and shot in the head by israeli snipers. None survived the bullet wounds to the head. This was reported by ER physicians in not one, but multiple hospitals throughout Gaza. Evidenced by X-rays of childrens’ heads showing bullets embedded in their brains with skull penetration. Many of them. And no, they are not fake as israelis will claim
Not really, God is merciful - better than humans. Every new life you have amnesia regarding the previous existences. Nobody "Rots for eternity", that is just malicious human consideration.
Admittedly, in some cases it might be a shame.
But the Divine has a greater plan than our souls can comprehend. And it is based upon love. As the prophet Jesus said, forgiveness is divine.
It is not for the benefit of the one forgiven, either.
Many of them will need and demand "Therapy" in later life from the Israeli state from the trauma of what they have done - that is their hell, and the only hell that exists.
There will be no therapy for their victims and surviving families from the Israeli state, of course.
Several former IDF soldiers have committed suicide due to the emotional torment they have suffered as a result of their actions . There’s one former IDF soldier who posted herself on you tube describing what she has suffered. She is clearly distressed.
Let's see. Will all the USA officials say OK on running the UN peacekeepers out of Lebanon so they can do their dirty work? Maybe Bernie will say "Not OK"...but, who listens to him ?
Be fair ; not just future - ie human beings have done this sort of thing in the past read eg accounts from the Spanish Civil War , the 100 years war et al .
Right. But this one is different. Live streamed.. And supported by the most powerful "Democracy" in the world. If you believe in devils, we are witnessing the Devil taking over.
Ha Ha! Now the Devil is threatening UN peacekeepers in Lebanon and told them they should leave. Seriously!!!??? Let's see what the US officials and that Kamala says about this...it it OK with her??? I'm hating her now.
The USA has long had an extremely dubious claim to being a nation believing in freedom, liberty and peace. If one compares both its internal incarceration rates, the great difference in rates of incarceration of blacks over whites, the wealth gap between rich and poor and then also consider the number of foreign military excursions it has made, it makes the so-called nastie states such as China and Russia look like angels by comparison.
That it has supported Israel's persecution of Palestinians for so long and, after each Israeli war, given increasing $billions of aid, as though a prize or reward for Israel doing it a favour, while also ignoring Israeli killing of those Palestians in the occupied territories who have, effectively, been hostages for decades, clearly illustrates that the peace narrative of its administration is simply not credible.
However, over the last year, the US actions have exceeded all that's gone before and it has become a nation as criminal as Israel and just as guilty of violating human rights. Since October 8 2023, Israel has dropped 85,000 tonnes of bombs on Palestinians. In the whole of WWII, the total of all air raids on Germany amounted to 56,000 tonnes and that was a WAR. What Israel is conducting is NOT a war. A war is a fight between the armies of two states. Israel is not fighting any other state it is simply committing genocide killing even children and women and obvious civilians, not only with both abandon and impunity but, given what I've witnessed on videos of IDF personnel, with RELISH.
Yet, the US administration puts on a show of attempting to bring about peace and of vowing to 'stand side by side with Israel' forever. If ever there was an example of perfidious hypocrisy, this is it.
It makes me sick to the stomach and whilst I have never admired US capitalism or its treatment of blacks and native Indians and its worship of guns, I had always considered it to have been opposed to criminal demagogues, dictators and oligarchs, for all its issues, failings and mistakes, I thought it was overall a decent nation.
No more.
Yes, I acknowledge readily that there exist decent, caring, compassionate and honest people among the US population and not a few of them, at that. However, when it comes to who they elect to power, there appears to be a major breakdown and with few exceptions, it is predominantly the war-mongers and propagandists who achieve power.
Something needs to change - and I don't mean the election of Trump again - that would only compound the problem.
It is going to need the whole World community to come together and revise the United Nations Charter and among other things, remove the veto held selectively on the basis of the 'victors' of WWII.
The USA can no longer be seen by any rational person as other than a pariah on the international stage as bad as any other we have seen in the past. By defending and supporting Israel's genocide and disdainful arrogance in its defiance of the UN, it is just as complicit and should have no right to be able to prevent sensible, rational and caring moves to stop this horror.
I understand your anger but the propaganda is so effective. Most Americans are completely ignorant. It’s like expecting the squirrels in your backyard to do something about Gaza. And the comparative handful that do see it are ostracized by powerful forces, including ‘law enforcement’. Those that challenge are quickly finding out we’re not the ‘land of the free’.
So, Michael, should I say and/or write nothing. Is it truly as bad as you say that "Most" of the US population are ignorant? Are so many really as incapable of rational thought as to be at the level of a squirrel?
If that is really the case, then the US is doomed and probably, the World, too.
The sad part is that as a man in my seventies I begin to believe that that is exactly the case. fifty plus years of brainwashing truly have made may incapable of rational thought. Peace to you.
Of course write about your frustration, Roger. I have to believe that most are stupid and/or ignorant rather than the worse alternative, that they’re evil white supremacists. So, when I see the rows of Harris/Trump signs I tell myself they’re ignorant like my squirrels. The alternative is truly hopeless!
No, Michael, you don't have to believe that "most are stupid". You use false logic to defend that view. There are many more options for how people act, consider, decide, feel and vote than simply 'stupidity' v 'being evil white supremacists." That is a simplistic view which ignores many factors some of which are both reasonable and understandable, even justifiable, as well as some that are not.
Your squirrels, too, are not ignorant. No, they don't have the same level of intelligence as humans appear to do but if they were simply stupid then it is likely that they would not be as adaptable as they have shown themselves to be and would probably be extinct by now.
"Evil" is a human construct, (of largely religious origins), and is one with a very loose definition, such that it is more an emotive term than one of useful definition.
I find the Substack way of connecting comments and response to be awkward, at best. However, if you are talking of the 'Most Americans' of Michael's comment: it is not about training or education that some are incapable, (apparently), of reasoned and rational thought and decision. making.
Such views occur for many reasons but predominantly from conditioning, which is largely insidious. It occurs for and through many influences, such as parental views, peer group notions and pressure, occupation views, community and personal circumstances and preferences and, not least but probably a major contribution: schooling - commonly confused with education but actually a major instrument of socialisation. There are many other influences, too.
Willful ignorance is easier than facing facts. Easier to do depending on which end of the weapon you are on. If you are gaining from the looted resources and murder, you look the other way.
Stupid means willfully ignorant.
Amurdicans have been kept in a childish state of arrested development. They react like children when a fact hits them.
They pretend it doesn’t exist. Or lash out.
If they only read history , they would see it is an old template.
Even more reason to do whatever we can to confront TPTB, to speak out, to support independent journalists, and to reject the Uniparty and its two candidates.
I absolutely support independent Journalists. with $$. I have said that journalism is my religion, because I don't have any other. To me it's waste of time thinking there is someone up there....
Yes, I agree. However, I wouldn't believe a word that comes out of Trump's mouth and, as I wrote, this is *not* a war, though I wouldn't expect Mr God Impersonator to understand that, indeed, I doubt he can even spell it.
The sad thing is, I agree with you. Most Americans are so propagandized it isn’t funny. The other day my neighbor actually said to me that they(Israel) aren’t bombing children on purpose after I told her husband what Israel is doing and that it(Israel) always gets a pass. What I should have said is that the U.S. and Israel always get a pass to do whatever they want. And now the Biden/Harris administration and nut job Natanyhu are discussing how to go about attacking Iran. These people are just pure EVIL. But most importantly, all of these doctors who have worked on children who have been deliberately shot in the head by Israeli snipers CANNOT be wrong. Biden, Harris and that asshole in Israel should be in the Hague right now being tried for WAR CRIMES.😢☮️🇵🇸
I think I can understand why you suggest that, however the reality is that in any election, anywhere are any time, that is the case so it really goes without saying.
When one states: ""those they are. allowed to elect" that is really simply equivalent to "those" = 'electors' and "allowed to elect" = candidates. It is the Constitution and electoral rules that determine these conditions.
In effect, the USA, in some ways offers more choice in who can be elected for several reasons but in particular because there are few limits on who can stand for election, basically: being a natural born citizen of the US; Being of a minimum age, (35 yrs for President); Having been a resident of the US for at least 15 years. Indeed, even a convicted criminal can stand for and be elected.
Another factor is that voting is optional in the US, so voters could choose not to vote for anyone and effectively boycott an election - a slim and unlikely chance, of course but a possibility nonetheless.
Of course, if you raise this issue in respect to the range of factors which may influence who stands as a candidate, what may or may not influence their chances of election and the type of electoral system and how that affects the distribution of votes, i.e. the election math, those factors are also of great influence but only in the broadest sense can they be said to control who is "allowed" to be elected.
So, I appreciate your interest and comment and thank you for reading mine but I think I have been correct in saying it as I did, rather than as you suggest.
Australia requires one to vote or pay a fine. The USA NEVER wanted everyone to vote. Too many Colored who won't go along with the powers that be, you know, the White Male's interests.
The reality is that those with power will almost inevitably make rules or laws which they consider will maintain their advantages and benefit themselves and their like to a greater extent than those they supposedly represent or to whom they have a duty of care.
However, as to whether the USA (which is an institutional personality) "never wanted everyone to vote" may or may not be true. What is true is that no electoral system is entirely fair and that none gives "everyone" a vote.
There are many in Australia who disagree with mandatory voting. Such a system, as do all, has both positives and negatives. A major negative of mandatory voting is that it means that some electors may not agree with any candidate but, unless they make a 'donkey' vote, i.e an invalid one, will have to assist in possibly electing a person they may even despise. Their only other alternative is to accept being fined, essentially simply for abstaining.
It may or may not be that non-whites with the right to vote may not "go along" with 'White Male's interests" and that those are equivalent to the wishes of "the powers that be." However, certainly the facts today don't support that. Indeed, large numbers of African Americans and of other non-white ethnicity are supporters not only of white male candidates but even of what might could readily be seen as the epitome of the worst of white male arrogance, insensitivity, misogyny, deceit and other negative qualities.
I agree that patriarchal societies have tended to dominate throughout history but that hasn't been exclusively the case and there are many and complex factors for it. It is a common and unfortunate, (even if understandable), theme of feminism to claim that men have deliberately subjugated women. Certainly history can be read that way but it is a somewhat simplistic view deserving of discussion but not, I think, all that relevant to the subject of this thread. Golda Meir was as bad a 'leader' of Israel as any of its male leaders and even worse than some.
Bernie Sanders had the same chance as any other candidate in terms of how the electoral system is constituted. I agree that for those concerned with honesty, fair conduct, equity and a more socially conscious society, Bernie Sanders was a far better choice than that of many others. However, it was not the electoral system per se which led to his not being elected but rather the many other factors to which I referred or alluded.
Yes, Judy, I used the wrong term but my point still stands.
I agree with you that he was and is 'a good guy', just as are many other men and women who 'don't stand a chance'. I am aware of the many factors that influence whether someone becomes a candidate, let alone is elected. I haven't argued or stated anything different.
Yes, I know that things aren't fair.
Yes, I know that the majority are at a major disadvantage and even subject to the whims and prejudices of a few.
No, I don't agree with it or like it either.
The reality is that it is very difficult to 'stand out from the crowd', let alone go against it. Conditioning is powerful and the ability to spread a message is hampered, even in these days of the Internet and (anti) social media. So, it is not only wealth and fame that give advantage but the fact that so many are active contributors to the culture which allows and supports this, whether consciously or not.
We are not on different sides, I believe, you and I. It just isn't a simple problem nor an easy one to solve and, not least, because the 'blame game' and/or focusing on one or two or a small group achieves little to nothing. Social change is hard to bring about at any time but all the more so when substantial numbers of people are either apathetic, feel any action they can take will make no difference or are uninformed, ill-informed, or actually imitating and envious of the very advantaged people who are, effectively, holding them hostage to notions of what will bring them happiness and a satisfying life that are precisely the opposite.
But you should count many others on this list. Germany, Britain, Netherlands, Sweden, Denmark, France, Italy, Norway, Finland, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Czech Republic, Poland. All knowingly complicity in mass murder.
Whether I should or should not is debatable. I am well aware that there are other nations who have supported Israel in various ways. However there are substantial differences in their involvement and support for Israel in the past and at present and I disagree that all are "knowingly complicit in mass murder."
You disagree unfortunately with the findings of the ICJ in 2024, as well as many findings of the UN Human Rights Council over several decades. All of which document genocide and apartheid by the Israeli regime, and all off which are distributed to the governments in question. All of which remind in detail of the duties of signatories to the ICJ.
And yet in all these countries still even NOW we are seeing not only NEW anti boycott-diverst-sanctions regulation implemented and proposed but people being thrown in prison for demanding and end to the apartheid and genocide.
At that point...any denials by those governments are much like the many in Germany a century ago who claim they "didn't know" things they actually saw daily.
And your disagreement with documented facts much like the holocaust denialists of today.
No, I don't disagree with the findings of the bodies you mention.
I also very much resent your abusive comment that what you consider my "disagreement with documented facts [is] much like the holocaust denialists of today."
Anyone who is familiar with my writing on Substack, Medium and elsewhere can attest to my views and that I am neither an apologist for those who are complicit nor a denialist of the holocaust or anything like it. Indeed, I have continually and consistently written to highlight misinformation, disinformation, perfidy and injustice and my position about is well known.
If you wish to promote some senseless and abusive argument then please go somewhere else for I am not the least bit interested it. All I claimed is that there are both past and current differences and that is true. I have nothing else to say on the matter for it is an aside to the substance of what precipitated this discussion of my response to the original and it appears only to be an incitement for a pointless and simplistic argument.
Take care. Stay safe. but please don't bother me again. ☮️
To paraphrase a well-known comment about voter motivation: ‘It’s the Jews, stupid’. Well, the Big Jews at any rate particularly those in the West. They are making possible the horrors of Palestine as committed by the Israelis. As so many times in the past these tyrants and bullies need to be dealt with so that the rest of us - including all those Jews supporting Palestine - can live in peace again.
So, as with 2000 years ago, anyone of note fancy playing Jesus to the Pharisees? (Palestinians are being ‘crucified’ every day in their hundreds but, alas, they don’t count in our ‘Roman’ eyes).
Judith, I am as disturbed and angry about what is happening as obviously are you. I consider it is more than wrong, it is an abomination. However, gratuitous remarks are unlikely to help.
You have it Down.. This is exactly the conclusion I have come to in the past year.
Utterly disgusting.
Voted for Harris who pledged support for Nazi Israel...Hating her now.
I avoid US politic as much as possible. All the many times over the past 9-10 years that Trump was screwed by this or by that. It never matters. Will "she" win? Or, will he get into the White regardless of the vote or the electoral college??
I am focused on the Palestinians, and, on the impending war on Iran. Even though the more I learn, the worse it is.....
Is it wrong to say that "I want Israel disappeared from the face of this planet"?
Israel has NO RIGHT TO DEFEND ITSELF against its victims, and Israel has NO RIGHT TO EXIST (as evidenced by 100+ years of history of ethnic cleansing and genocide).
Someone/Something please get rid of this entity from our world and LET IT (and us) HEAL!
Like 4% and I'll bet they keep their mouth shut. The ones who are screaming and mad as hell are the families of the hostages who aren't mad about the genocide; they are mad about no efforts to rescue the hostages.
IDF and its snipers are cowards and kept from frontline encounters with Hezbollah by Netanyahu to protect them from becoming mass casualties. IDF cannot sustain a protracted firefight with the adversaries!!
Not warriors; they are pussies who can shoot straight (from a safe distance) or bomb away from what they assume is a safe distance....if you tune into the Electronic Intifada you get to see the real warriors attacking Israeli tanks and IDF; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GYPrgyQ4x8
‘Do what?’ Stand up to Israel of course. It’s the only thing Israel understands now: resistance and opposition. It’s society has become so pathologically hateful - especially towards the Palestinians - and so imbued with ‘victimhood’ it needs to be considered a ‘failed state’ and put in ‘special measures’ before it drags us into WW3.
If you want some corroboration on this I suggest you listen to Norman Finkelstein, a Jewish/Israeli academic and son of Holocaust survivors who is continually lecturing on this ‘Israel is screwed’ message.
Zionists not Jews. There’s overlap, no doubt, but we can’t let ourselves be sidetracked into finger pointing at the wrong culprits. That serves no one’s purpose except TPTB. Consider how convenient it is for those in power to have that happen.
And now, The Grayzone's Jeremy Loffredo has been seized by the IDF with other reporters for reporting on Iran's missile attack. He was quite close to IDF military installations. All but Loffredo have been released according to sources. I hope he's okay he does great work.
And the silence of the mainstream western press on Jeremy Loffredo's detention is deafening.
His crime:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=nu0zptW49eM&si=bzttQtGPVpalDCmq
Thank you. I was trying to find his last report. God, l hope Biden brings him home safely.
Unfortunately, I wouldn’t count on Biden to do anything. Remember - he is a sworn zionist.
Jeremy has been seized by a group which has an open record of behaving as psychopaths. His future (if he is to have one) looks grim
I absolutely will not vote for anyone who supports Israel. Israel’s actions are absolutely evil. As Noam Chomsky said evil is not a harsh enough word to describe Israel’s actions. I would add US support too as utterly evil.
Good luck. AIPAC has been working hard to replace any candidate anywhere who doesn’t toe the line for Israel.
Hold AIPAC as criminal accessories and prosecute them for enabling war crimes !!!
Good luck on that. I mean seriously, it will take immense pressure but who is going to do it: their puppets in Washington? This is truly sick.
Right. There is no one that doesn't support the sadistic actions of Israel. OK, Jill Stein. But, she will not hold office. The Jewish/nutty Christians have taken over the political system and the Universities in the USA. They are NOT good Americans; they are traitors who are devoted to the cause of whatever Israel wants. Now, we are probably going to war with Iran which includes Russia. WW3. Iran has done NOTHING except give support to the Palestinians who have been repeatedly decimated by the Israelis.
I sent in my ballot weeks ago and voted for Harris who announces she PLEDGES to support Israel. It makes me sick. I hate her now.
Let’s hope for popular anger and discontent to reach a critical point and wide scale efforts of civil disobedience, maybe rebellion, work toward systemic reform!!
:-(
Please consider that if anyone who cares about democracy in America, the future of the country for their children and grandchildren, about efforts to reduce climate change, and not becoming an authoritarian state headed by a dictator with right wing militias as his personal security force, then Trump cannot be elected. This is a binary choice literally good versus evil. You may not agree with all of Harris’s policies but chances are you disagree with everything Trump represents which is greed, corruption and incompetence. Please vote wisely and vote for Harris Walz. It is not hyperbole to say that the future of America depends on it.
I did vote for her. Women's rights depends on her. But, I'm hating her now for her disgusting PLEDGE to support Israel. She knows whats going on in Gaza; they all do. They just have to turn their backs on it and stand firm with the evil of Israel.
Stand firm and let Israel off for whatever it does or will do!!!
I understand and appreciate your response.
The fact remains that for any American concerned about the future of America, women’s rights, democracy and not wanting to see the convicted felon, sexual predator, racist, narcissistic, psychopath, wannabe dictator, corrupt to his core Trump in the White House needs to vote for Harris. It is that simple.
vote for this evil not the other? how low has the US fallen.
i think anyone who actually cares (who is really willing to fight for democracy, the future, children, environmental issues) would take on the duopoly. harris/walz will continue to subsidize the bullets for the snipers in the article. i think it is a bit naive to assume they're so racist they won't be able to rationalize doing the same inside the us empire.
Don’t expect any needed changes for American people to happen during Harris/Walz term. Be prepared!!
Can’t do it. Her support of israel is truly horrific and shows she is a paid AIPAC and zionist pawn.
There are flat out no good reasons to vote either party. My advice: stay away in record numbers from voting polls , but there still may be a respectable turnout due to addition of illegal ballots inthe hundreds of thousands!!!!
Illegal ballots...? How do you know that? Are you officially investigating it? Or are you just spreading whatever Trump says? Is that facts? And, have Trump presented any facts? The answer is no, no... and no
Someone is going to win. The fact remains that for any American concerned about the future of America, women’s rights, democracy and not wanting to see the convicted felon, sexual predator, racist, narcissistic, psychopath, wannabe dictator, corrupt to his core Trump in the White House needs to vote for Harris. It is that simple.
Why do you believe we will lose our democracy? How do you define a democracy?
looks to me like 'democracy' is already long gone. i think what you are talking about is self interest.
This is called Scorched Earth Combat. The other version is where attempts are made to fight a gentlemen’s war by having a modicum of respect for the enemy.
What Israel is doing is nothing short of jaw dropping to those of us who don’t hate white people. I say that because I have a sneaking suspicion that’s really why the left hates Israel in some cases. That’s not a slight but merely an observation of mine.
Doesn’t matter i don’t guess. I can certainly not condone or deny what Israel is attempting to do (genocide a race). But ONE thing must be understood. It is the same people in control (US/UK/IS). Those who green light such vile acts call the shots over here.
I am voting for Trump. My stomach turned the other day when he was wearing his beanie. It looked more like a fealty pledge to me than a photo op.
I hate to say this because the events that cause it could be extremely catastrophic for all of us. America need to be taken down a notch or two. I believe DT is best suited for this endeavor.
I have wrestled with this thought for several years now. There are no winners. It will even be hard on countries that are somewhat insulated from America’s reach. But for the sake of humanity it must be done.
Dr. Jill Stein is the only candidate that l've heard say she will end the wars. Harris is taking funding from AIPAC and Trump accepted $100 million from a Jewish friends widow (l can remember her name, sorry).
Harris is an AIPAC pawn, just like scramble
brained Joe. Their whole hearted support for zionism disgusts and repulsed me
Shocking and disturbing. The arse-wipe that is the UK PM was defending the supply of armaments to Israel claiming they are for ‘her’ self defence, when this vile state has never defended ‘herself’. Her cowardly army is always the offender.
There needs to be consequences in this life and the next. Here’s hoping Hell is real
have you not noticed that the only potential Hell that exists is on this earth... as it is a creation of the minds of mankind...
I'd dare say differently; unless one be an unbeliever.
There is not a single person alive who does not have beliefs - arguably, the only one in history was the Buddha, and that was only while he was in the 'zone'.
So what you MEAN by "unbeliever", is other people who do not share your particular beliefs. And by derogatorily labeling them as "Unbelievers" rather than "Having different beliefs", you are essentially dehumanising and devaluing them.
Which is pretty bloody ironic when you are replying in horror to a post about Israeli snipers doing precisely that to Palestinian children.
You need to take a good hard look at yourself and see where you may align with the Zionists in beliefs, if for different groups.
And start checking your language.
Obviously, you have different beliefs to me. How would it feel to YOU if I called YOU an "Unbeliever"?
Do you really want to come across like one of the Western-backed/created takfiri ISIS Sunni extremists?
Know Thyself. You need to work harder on your jihad.
Thank for mentioning that word which I've heard of course..but had to look up: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jihad
Jihad is an Arabic word that means "exerting", "striving", or "struggling", particularly with a praiseworthy aim.
Cool.
But, also a loaded word....
Not to the followers of Islam, only those Westerners who learned about it from media first, such as the otherwise superb Dune series, or the completely execrable GWB's wars oF terror.
I was corrected many many years ago by very patient sheikhs, along with other misconceptions.
Islam is not for me, but it is still a highly admirable religion, considerably better than most forms of Christianity (Excl perhaps Amish who actually live it), and even the Judaism from which they all sprang, as in theory Islam lacks racism.
The Qoran truly is an extraordinary book, filled with morality far beyond the time it was written - strict Islam's Rules of War still exceed even the Geneva Conventions in many ways, fx, and Women's Rights in Islam were nowhere near matched in Christendom until we broke the Church and achieved Secularism in the last century.
Amusingly, many Islamophobic western nazis who read the actual book end up renouncing their racism and becoming Muslims themselves, unarguably a better choice for them and the rest of us.
Here is an article backed by fact, which many people deny using a pre-scripted narrative. By saying someone is an unbeliever, you are suggesting there is reason to believe a pre-scripted narrative over facts. There’s no reason to choose a narrative over fact at any time, for any purpose. How do you draw the line?
Believe or not however you choose. I know my own beliefs on the matter and that is all that is important to myself. . That is everyone's free will choice to accept or not.
Zionists have a belief too............exterminating Palestinian people because it is their land given to them by their God!
Not all Zionists are Jewish and so that would not apply to those.individuals.
do you believe that israeli snipers are deliberately targeting and killing children?
We have solid proof that they are. Accounts from emergency room physicians in Gaza of multiple children targeted and shot in the head by israeli snipers. None survived the bullet wounds to the head. This was reported by ER physicians in not one, but multiple hospitals throughout Gaza. Evidenced by X-rays of childrens’ heads showing bullets embedded in their brains with skull penetration. Many of them. And no, they are not fake as israelis will claim
which narrative periodical do you subscribe to...?
Periodical?? I know my beleifs and that is what is important to myself. I can't change or persuade anyone else's view .
Hell is happening right now in Gaza. Other than that, no, there is no afterlife anything.
Oh, it's real be assured of that and there are souls (countless, undoubredly) that are there rotting for eternity.
Not really, God is merciful - better than humans. Every new life you have amnesia regarding the previous existences. Nobody "Rots for eternity", that is just malicious human consideration.
Admittedly, in some cases it might be a shame.
But the Divine has a greater plan than our souls can comprehend. And it is based upon love. As the prophet Jesus said, forgiveness is divine.
It is not for the benefit of the one forgiven, either.
Believe how you choose. Souls are lost and do suffer the permanent separation from their Creator based upon how they lived their lives. .
Many of them will need and demand "Therapy" in later life from the Israeli state from the trauma of what they have done - that is their hell, and the only hell that exists.
There will be no therapy for their victims and surviving families from the Israeli state, of course.
I don't think they can be fixed.
Several former IDF soldiers have committed suicide due to the emotional torment they have suffered as a result of their actions . There’s one former IDF soldier who posted herself on you tube describing what she has suffered. She is clearly distressed.
"Israeli Snipers Routinely, Deliberately Shoot Palestinian Kids In The Head"
Someone wake me up from this bloody nightmare. :(
Yes, Jamenta, It is a nightmare. Worse than a nightmare. Is Israel's dehumanised "humans" the prototype of a future race?
This is not the prototype of a future race; humans always have been this way.
It is if the Zionists and Big Jews throughout the West have their way. Which is looking increasingly inevitable.
Let's see. Will all the USA officials say OK on running the UN peacekeepers out of Lebanon so they can do their dirty work? Maybe Bernie will say "Not OK"...but, who listens to him ?
Could well be.
Be fair ; not just future - ie human beings have done this sort of thing in the past read eg accounts from the Spanish Civil War , the 100 years war et al .
Right. But this one is different. Live streamed.. And supported by the most powerful "Democracy" in the world. If you believe in devils, we are witnessing the Devil taking over.
Ha Ha! Now the Devil is threatening UN peacekeepers in Lebanon and told them they should leave. Seriously!!!??? Let's see what the US officials and that Kamala says about this...it it OK with her??? I'm hating her now.
no one can do it but yourself,
granted, easily said- as the hard work is yours and yours alone.
But it doesn't have to be yours alone Edward, there are surely others around you who feel the way you do. Find a like minded group and join them.
US is a hegemonic. POS!!!!
The USA has long had an extremely dubious claim to being a nation believing in freedom, liberty and peace. If one compares both its internal incarceration rates, the great difference in rates of incarceration of blacks over whites, the wealth gap between rich and poor and then also consider the number of foreign military excursions it has made, it makes the so-called nastie states such as China and Russia look like angels by comparison.
That it has supported Israel's persecution of Palestinians for so long and, after each Israeli war, given increasing $billions of aid, as though a prize or reward for Israel doing it a favour, while also ignoring Israeli killing of those Palestians in the occupied territories who have, effectively, been hostages for decades, clearly illustrates that the peace narrative of its administration is simply not credible.
However, over the last year, the US actions have exceeded all that's gone before and it has become a nation as criminal as Israel and just as guilty of violating human rights. Since October 8 2023, Israel has dropped 85,000 tonnes of bombs on Palestinians. In the whole of WWII, the total of all air raids on Germany amounted to 56,000 tonnes and that was a WAR. What Israel is conducting is NOT a war. A war is a fight between the armies of two states. Israel is not fighting any other state it is simply committing genocide killing even children and women and obvious civilians, not only with both abandon and impunity but, given what I've witnessed on videos of IDF personnel, with RELISH.
Yet, the US administration puts on a show of attempting to bring about peace and of vowing to 'stand side by side with Israel' forever. If ever there was an example of perfidious hypocrisy, this is it.
It makes me sick to the stomach and whilst I have never admired US capitalism or its treatment of blacks and native Indians and its worship of guns, I had always considered it to have been opposed to criminal demagogues, dictators and oligarchs, for all its issues, failings and mistakes, I thought it was overall a decent nation.
No more.
Yes, I acknowledge readily that there exist decent, caring, compassionate and honest people among the US population and not a few of them, at that. However, when it comes to who they elect to power, there appears to be a major breakdown and with few exceptions, it is predominantly the war-mongers and propagandists who achieve power.
Something needs to change - and I don't mean the election of Trump again - that would only compound the problem.
It is going to need the whole World community to come together and revise the United Nations Charter and among other things, remove the veto held selectively on the basis of the 'victors' of WWII.
The USA can no longer be seen by any rational person as other than a pariah on the international stage as bad as any other we have seen in the past. By defending and supporting Israel's genocide and disdainful arrogance in its defiance of the UN, it is just as complicit and should have no right to be able to prevent sensible, rational and caring moves to stop this horror.
I understand your anger but the propaganda is so effective. Most Americans are completely ignorant. It’s like expecting the squirrels in your backyard to do something about Gaza. And the comparative handful that do see it are ostracized by powerful forces, including ‘law enforcement’. Those that challenge are quickly finding out we’re not the ‘land of the free’.
So, Michael, should I say and/or write nothing. Is it truly as bad as you say that "Most" of the US population are ignorant? Are so many really as incapable of rational thought as to be at the level of a squirrel?
If that is really the case, then the US is doomed and probably, the World, too.
Take care. Stay safe. ☮️
The sad part is that as a man in my seventies I begin to believe that that is exactly the case. fifty plus years of brainwashing truly have made may incapable of rational thought. Peace to you.
Of course write about your frustration, Roger. I have to believe that most are stupid and/or ignorant rather than the worse alternative, that they’re evil white supremacists. So, when I see the rows of Harris/Trump signs I tell myself they’re ignorant like my squirrels. The alternative is truly hopeless!
No, Michael, you don't have to believe that "most are stupid". You use false logic to defend that view. There are many more options for how people act, consider, decide, feel and vote than simply 'stupidity' v 'being evil white supremacists." That is a simplistic view which ignores many factors some of which are both reasonable and understandable, even justifiable, as well as some that are not.
Your squirrels, too, are not ignorant. No, they don't have the same level of intelligence as humans appear to do but if they were simply stupid then it is likely that they would not be as adaptable as they have shown themselves to be and would probably be extinct by now.
"Evil" is a human construct, (of largely religious origins), and is one with a very loose definition, such that it is more an emotive term than one of useful definition.
Take care. Stay safe. ☮️
They are trained not educated.
I find the Substack way of connecting comments and response to be awkward, at best. However, if you are talking of the 'Most Americans' of Michael's comment: it is not about training or education that some are incapable, (apparently), of reasoned and rational thought and decision. making.
Such views occur for many reasons but predominantly from conditioning, which is largely insidious. It occurs for and through many influences, such as parental views, peer group notions and pressure, occupation views, community and personal circumstances and preferences and, not least but probably a major contribution: schooling - commonly confused with education but actually a major instrument of socialisation. There are many other influences, too.
Fluoride.
Comfortable in the heart of the Empire.
Bread and Circuses
Shoe sales for the rest
Willful ignorance is easier than facing facts. Easier to do depending on which end of the weapon you are on. If you are gaining from the looted resources and murder, you look the other way.
Stupid means willfully ignorant.
Amurdicans have been kept in a childish state of arrested development. They react like children when a fact hits them.
They pretend it doesn’t exist. Or lash out.
If they only read history , they would see it is an old template.
Even more reason to do whatever we can to confront TPTB, to speak out, to support independent journalists, and to reject the Uniparty and its two candidates.
I absolutely support independent Journalists. with $$. I have said that journalism is my religion, because I don't have any other. To me it's waste of time thinking there is someone up there....
Worse than squirrels. Squirrels cannot send billions of dollars, along with population extinguishing arms.
Trump has promised to end the war - and by “end the war” - he means give everything to Israel that they want to finish their genocide.
Yes, I agree. However, I wouldn't believe a word that comes out of Trump's mouth and, as I wrote, this is *not* a war, though I wouldn't expect Mr God Impersonator to understand that, indeed, I doubt he can even spell it.
Take care. Stay safe. ☮️
His son in law is Jewish. Made presentations of resorts he wants to build on Gazan shores to rich investors.
He would be banned from MY house. I have no problem banning hateful relatives, including children.
The sad thing is, I agree with you. Most Americans are so propagandized it isn’t funny. The other day my neighbor actually said to me that they(Israel) aren’t bombing children on purpose after I told her husband what Israel is doing and that it(Israel) always gets a pass. What I should have said is that the U.S. and Israel always get a pass to do whatever they want. And now the Biden/Harris administration and nut job Natanyhu are discussing how to go about attacking Iran. These people are just pure EVIL. But most importantly, all of these doctors who have worked on children who have been deliberately shot in the head by Israeli snipers CANNOT be wrong. Biden, Harris and that asshole in Israel should be in the Hague right now being tried for WAR CRIMES.😢☮️🇵🇸
“when it comes to who they elect to power” I would suggest it should say, “when it comes to those they are allowed to elect to power.”
I think I can understand why you suggest that, however the reality is that in any election, anywhere are any time, that is the case so it really goes without saying.
When one states: ""those they are. allowed to elect" that is really simply equivalent to "those" = 'electors' and "allowed to elect" = candidates. It is the Constitution and electoral rules that determine these conditions.
In effect, the USA, in some ways offers more choice in who can be elected for several reasons but in particular because there are few limits on who can stand for election, basically: being a natural born citizen of the US; Being of a minimum age, (35 yrs for President); Having been a resident of the US for at least 15 years. Indeed, even a convicted criminal can stand for and be elected.
Another factor is that voting is optional in the US, so voters could choose not to vote for anyone and effectively boycott an election - a slim and unlikely chance, of course but a possibility nonetheless.
Of course, if you raise this issue in respect to the range of factors which may influence who stands as a candidate, what may or may not influence their chances of election and the type of electoral system and how that affects the distribution of votes, i.e. the election math, those factors are also of great influence but only in the broadest sense can they be said to control who is "allowed" to be elected.
So, I appreciate your interest and comment and thank you for reading mine but I think I have been correct in saying it as I did, rather than as you suggest.
Take care. Stay safe. ☮️
Australia requires one to vote or pay a fine. The USA NEVER wanted everyone to vote. Too many Colored who won't go along with the powers that be, you know, the White Male's interests.
The reality is that those with power will almost inevitably make rules or laws which they consider will maintain their advantages and benefit themselves and their like to a greater extent than those they supposedly represent or to whom they have a duty of care.
However, as to whether the USA (which is an institutional personality) "never wanted everyone to vote" may or may not be true. What is true is that no electoral system is entirely fair and that none gives "everyone" a vote.
There are many in Australia who disagree with mandatory voting. Such a system, as do all, has both positives and negatives. A major negative of mandatory voting is that it means that some electors may not agree with any candidate but, unless they make a 'donkey' vote, i.e an invalid one, will have to assist in possibly electing a person they may even despise. Their only other alternative is to accept being fined, essentially simply for abstaining.
It may or may not be that non-whites with the right to vote may not "go along" with 'White Male's interests" and that those are equivalent to the wishes of "the powers that be." However, certainly the facts today don't support that. Indeed, large numbers of African Americans and of other non-white ethnicity are supporters not only of white male candidates but even of what might could readily be seen as the epitome of the worst of white male arrogance, insensitivity, misogyny, deceit and other negative qualities.
I agree that patriarchal societies have tended to dominate throughout history but that hasn't been exclusively the case and there are many and complex factors for it. It is a common and unfortunate, (even if understandable), theme of feminism to claim that men have deliberately subjugated women. Certainly history can be read that way but it is a somewhat simplistic view deserving of discussion but not, I think, all that relevant to the subject of this thread. Golda Meir was as bad a 'leader' of Israel as any of its male leaders and even worse than some.
Take care. Stay safe. ☮️
BUT, Bernie didn't stand a chance. And, he was and is the good guy.
Bernie Sanders had the same chance as any other candidate in terms of how the electoral system is constituted. I agree that for those concerned with honesty, fair conduct, equity and a more socially conscious society, Bernie Sanders was a far better choice than that of many others. However, it was not the electoral system per se which led to his not being elected but rather the many other factors to which I referred or alluded.
He wasn't nominated. He wasn't playing the game.
Yes, Judy, I used the wrong term but my point still stands.
I agree with you that he was and is 'a good guy', just as are many other men and women who 'don't stand a chance'. I am aware of the many factors that influence whether someone becomes a candidate, let alone is elected. I haven't argued or stated anything different.
Yes, I know that things aren't fair.
Yes, I know that the majority are at a major disadvantage and even subject to the whims and prejudices of a few.
No, I don't agree with it or like it either.
The reality is that it is very difficult to 'stand out from the crowd', let alone go against it. Conditioning is powerful and the ability to spread a message is hampered, even in these days of the Internet and (anti) social media. So, it is not only wealth and fame that give advantage but the fact that so many are active contributors to the culture which allows and supports this, whether consciously or not.
We are not on different sides, I believe, you and I. It just isn't a simple problem nor an easy one to solve and, not least, because the 'blame game' and/or focusing on one or two or a small group achieves little to nothing. Social change is hard to bring about at any time but all the more so when substantial numbers of people are either apathetic, feel any action they can take will make no difference or are uninformed, ill-informed, or actually imitating and envious of the very advantaged people who are, effectively, holding them hostage to notions of what will bring them happiness and a satisfying life that are precisely the opposite.
Take care. Stay safe. ☮️
Thank you, roger hawcroft. 🙏
Absolutely.
But you should count many others on this list. Germany, Britain, Netherlands, Sweden, Denmark, France, Italy, Norway, Finland, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Czech Republic, Poland. All knowingly complicity in mass murder.
Whether I should or should not is debatable. I am well aware that there are other nations who have supported Israel in various ways. However there are substantial differences in their involvement and support for Israel in the past and at present and I disagree that all are "knowingly complicit in mass murder."
You disagree unfortunately with the findings of the ICJ in 2024, as well as many findings of the UN Human Rights Council over several decades. All of which document genocide and apartheid by the Israeli regime, and all off which are distributed to the governments in question. All of which remind in detail of the duties of signatories to the ICJ.
And yet in all these countries still even NOW we are seeing not only NEW anti boycott-diverst-sanctions regulation implemented and proposed but people being thrown in prison for demanding and end to the apartheid and genocide.
At that point...any denials by those governments are much like the many in Germany a century ago who claim they "didn't know" things they actually saw daily.
And your disagreement with documented facts much like the holocaust denialists of today.
No, I don't disagree with the findings of the bodies you mention.
I also very much resent your abusive comment that what you consider my "disagreement with documented facts [is] much like the holocaust denialists of today."
Anyone who is familiar with my writing on Substack, Medium and elsewhere can attest to my views and that I am neither an apologist for those who are complicit nor a denialist of the holocaust or anything like it. Indeed, I have continually and consistently written to highlight misinformation, disinformation, perfidy and injustice and my position about is well known.
If you wish to promote some senseless and abusive argument then please go somewhere else for I am not the least bit interested it. All I claimed is that there are both past and current differences and that is true. I have nothing else to say on the matter for it is an aside to the substance of what precipitated this discussion of my response to the original and it appears only to be an incitement for a pointless and simplistic argument.
Take care. Stay safe. but please don't bother me again. ☮️
!!!!!!!!!!!...I had no idea even the Swedes, etc, etc. SHIT!
To paraphrase a well-known comment about voter motivation: ‘It’s the Jews, stupid’. Well, the Big Jews at any rate particularly those in the West. They are making possible the horrors of Palestine as committed by the Israelis. As so many times in the past these tyrants and bullies need to be dealt with so that the rest of us - including all those Jews supporting Palestine - can live in peace again.
So, as with 2000 years ago, anyone of note fancy playing Jesus to the Pharisees? (Palestinians are being ‘crucified’ every day in their hundreds but, alas, they don’t count in our ‘Roman’ eyes).
Israel bombing away every effen day. Why not? Just rack up the war crimes...what the hell. ...shooting people told to relocate again.
Judith, I am as disturbed and angry about what is happening as obviously are you. I consider it is more than wrong, it is an abomination. However, gratuitous remarks are unlikely to help.
Well said Roger Hawcroft! And I agree with you 100%!!!
Thank you, Chang.
Take care. Stay safe. ☮️
Spot on.
Roger Hawcroft,
You have it Down.. This is exactly the conclusion I have come to in the past year.
Utterly disgusting.
Voted for Harris who pledged support for Nazi Israel...Hating her now.
I avoid US politic as much as possible. All the many times over the past 9-10 years that Trump was screwed by this or by that. It never matters. Will "she" win? Or, will he get into the White regardless of the vote or the electoral college??
I am focused on the Palestinians, and, on the impending war on Iran. Even though the more I learn, the worse it is.....
I share your concern and thank you for your contributions in relation to my views.
Take care. Stay safe. ☮️
Is it wrong to say that "I want Israel disappeared from the face of this planet"?
Israel has NO RIGHT TO DEFEND ITSELF against its victims, and Israel has NO RIGHT TO EXIST (as evidenced by 100+ years of history of ethnic cleansing and genocide).
Someone/Something please get rid of this entity from our world and LET IT (and us) HEAL!
Many of us would agree with you - but there is , even now SOME dissent within Israel .
Like 4% and I'll bet they keep their mouth shut. The ones who are screaming and mad as hell are the families of the hostages who aren't mad about the genocide; they are mad about no efforts to rescue the hostages.
IDF and its snipers are cowards and kept from frontline encounters with Hezbollah by Netanyahu to protect them from becoming mass casualties. IDF cannot sustain a protracted firefight with the adversaries!!
Not warriors; they are pussies who can shoot straight (from a safe distance) or bomb away from what they assume is a safe distance....if you tune into the Electronic Intifada you get to see the real warriors attacking Israeli tanks and IDF; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GYPrgyQ4x8
Well it doesn't really matter if you misunderstand me !
‘Do what?’ Stand up to Israel of course. It’s the only thing Israel understands now: resistance and opposition. It’s society has become so pathologically hateful - especially towards the Palestinians - and so imbued with ‘victimhood’ it needs to be considered a ‘failed state’ and put in ‘special measures’ before it drags us into WW3.
If you want some corroboration on this I suggest you listen to Norman Finkelstein, a Jewish/Israeli academic and son of Holocaust survivors who is continually lecturing on this ‘Israel is screwed’ message.
Zionists not Jews. There’s overlap, no doubt, but we can’t let ourselves be sidetracked into finger pointing at the wrong culprits. That serves no one’s purpose except TPTB. Consider how convenient it is for those in power to have that happen.