So what are you doing? This sort of arguing among people who claim to be on the same side is playing the empires game of divide and conquer! Everyone shut the fuck up and decide which side you’re on 😠
....I could not possibly have greater clarity...than being 100% AGAINST the Nazis and ALL the evil they perpetrate. However, that doesn't mean - for me at least- that I shouldn't critique what "my side" is doing or should do.
How like a USian to demand the rest of the world do something about the crimes of their vile "country". How like a USian to recourse to whataboutism (as the vile USIans would say) to deflect from their moral depravity and indolence.
As it happens I am a victim of rogue US regime imperialism, which (surprise surprise) is why I look to the people of the rogue US regime to do something about the crimes of their "country". And what are you doing about the many and numerous crimes of your shithole country?
Not enough. But then I'm not the one suggesting people's lives are worthless unless they're going to sacrifice themselves in an attempt to bring down empire.
I'm not "suggesting people's lives are worthless" because they choose not to "sacrifice themselves in an attempt to bring down empire", which of course would be a noble pursuit, and hence why the vast majority of the citizens of the rogue US regime would never even dream of doing so.
I am suggesting the "people" of the rogue US regime that spend their time online (and offline) virtue signalling - like you did, and am sure regularly do - and expecting the world to come to their rescue are beneath contempt.
There really arent very many. I live in usa. Most that aren’t right wing have politics that don’t go beyond anti trump. They are mostly fine with imperialist war as long as it’s their team in charge.
When people recognize that their children and/or friends could be killed in a war it could possibly help them to see that it is the same for the "other side". At least at some point they object to people being killed. From my observations, it is mostly the children of the elite who don't get their lives put in danger. Maybe empathy is slow to grow for some, but if it starts to grow, that could be the start of recognition that war is stupid, evil, cruel, unfair, pointless........
Says a militarized police force paid by the those in power to protect them against angry mobs of poor people with guns. Things would have to totally collapse for that to change. And that's going to happen. There's nothing anybody can do to stop that, which begs the question, why the fuck are you trying to save this? The best thing for this country is total implosion and to have a few generations really suffer through real poverty so that if the US is rebuilt there's a better chance it's not the monster it is today. Trying to "overthrow your government" is as futile and suicidal as a man on the tracks who believes he's gonna stop the speeding locomotive of historical inevitability. It's just a matter of time.
I know that but like I said, why do you want to save it? If by some miracle an unorganized ragtag group of untrained civilians with guns managed to destroy the institutions or crash the economy by blowing up shit, it won't change the government or the culture that created it. America will just permute into a new monster. By the way, if you tried and FAILED to overthrow the government, that monster would be even more fascistic and oppressive. We live in a police state with state-controlled media not a Hollywood movie. The whole thing will collapse on itself, it doesn't need anyone's help.
Mine too, even my own. I say that knowing what that means. Death will not remove the shame of the u.s. from it's population now and in the future. This will only be ended by Iran.
I have a question no one will answer. Will Iran after destroying the tiny force of invaders show israel what an defending country means by sending troops along with Iraq through Jordan to Tel Aviv?
You think there is something wrong with the KKK, but they would have been opposed to all this, too. It was the same group demonizing them as the ones that demonize you.
I was brought up in a conservative family with parents who trusted authority and believed government had our best interests at heart. They thought news was news and took the right wing line as being the moral one. As someone more interested in the outdoors and animals than politics, and as I had a comfortable lifestyle, I never questioned their beliefs, but accepted them. They were good people. From another era. I didn't start to understand until I began to travel widely. And have only realised the full extent of it more recently. I'm not a bad person either. What I don't understand is how people can ignore it once their eyes have been opened.
Don't let the taunts of the self-righteous bother you, Mary. Let them enjoy their little endorphin rush, which changes nothing.
The Second American Revolution is coming exactly because people like you and your parents are seeing through a lifetime of lies enforced by a whole mess of authorities, and because you are legion.
Most people who ignore it once they see it have positions in society that depend upon them NOT seeing it. Follow their money and you'll understand why real quick.
Entire countries and their people have been randomly deemed persona non grata and are being bombed or starved. Look at what we are doing to Cuba. What has Cuba done to anyone but mind their own business? Why are they the bad guys?
Would poeple like it if another country said we gonna bomb the US because it wont give its people healthcare and is run by the Epstein class? So why it is ok to make that argument to Iranians? Or any other nation in global south?
Lots of people oppose this war for the wrong reasons too, including gas prices and economic upheaval or the lives of armed men...it is ultimately only about them and even though OTHER PEOPLE ARE BEING BUTCHERED, the West somehow still manages to portray themselves as the real victims of the aggression their countries engaged in. As I was getting gas the other day that is now at over $6 a gallon all I could think about is that at least I am not being bombed in my home.
Very few oppose this war on humanitarian grounds and with turn a blind eye when it wont affect them at all, like the starvation of Cuba. They dont see Iran or Cuba or Lebanon or Libya as countries with people who have lives to live and the right to live them in peace and with the autonomy to change their government as they see fit. They take for granted that we can just murder their leaders and scientists and bomb them. Even people who call this a win for Iran are somehow not looking at the human toll, the ancient neighborhoods and cities destroyed, the lives lost. It's all yeah we can hit them harder but then what?
Dont everyone ever underestimate the racism of the West. The same BLM and LGBTQ rights advocates who've been thumping their chests for years about the rights of others, couldnt care less what is happening to Iranians. These are actually the worst allies you can have because they are none at all.
I believe it, but do not understand how people can allow themselves to be brainwashed. Where are the moral brakes that stop them from recognising and supporting evil?
I think it's less a case of being brainwashed, and more a case of comfort induced apathy – they are comfortable with the crimes against humanity of their "government" once they get a share of the imperialist plunder.
We can see that as soon as the empire starts to decline, and the plunder starts to dwindle, the amoral unwashed starts to march against fictional kings, or Harry Potter, or whoever they are allowed to protest against.
I'm with you on this one, everyone has a natural instinct to recognize right from wrong, good from evil, yet for some reason so many people ignore it and by ignoring it open themselves wide to be " brainwashed" even more. It's a choice thing more than anything else.
The only time I may allow a bit of difference is if brainwashed from birth, there again my two brothers older than myself and sister younger by seven years bought into all my parents believed, I was the only one that kicked against that warped mind talk and broke away as soon as possible.
I own one pair of cowboy boots, de rigueur in the southwest, which I rarely wear because I walk so badly, but I'd be happy to put 'em on to forcibly jam the pointed toe up the derriere of a certain Senator Mr. Graham
It is not "American hand-wringing" for most Americans opposed this war from the beginning...with even Fox news polling showing a minus 16 negative, the first time in US history that a war has not gathered support, which was its goal to distract from the Epstein scandal. Boots on the ground is not the place where Americans begin to oppose the war...this started from the beginning. Boots on the ground only serves to drag in even that minority that approved the war as promised, short and bootfree.
Personally I think that all flags and nations are dishonest tools designed to make one group of poor people fight another group of poor people, for the benefit of rich people. The US population is at -16% in its support for the war. The people don’t want it.
Same deal as you describe is happening in the Uk. I haven’t met anyone who has spoken in favour of this war, but only the most peripheral of our parties is willing to speak against it. “They” (however you want to define “they”) have taken control of our countries away from the people.
Not sure about each flag doing that in each case the wealth wealth and power accumulation limited redistribution might be underlying the flag like religion might be coopted hearts and minds tools
They pretend to be in control, but the protests against ICE in Minneapolis show the reality of their weakness, as it led to the two top ICE leaders being fired and the whole ICE horror show shut down. No regime can rule, not even a monarch, without consent of the ruled, and so despite the denials, the Trump regime is very much influenced by public opinion, especially with the November elections and the chance of the Republicans being crushed approaching. Republicans cannot withstand an unpopular war and inflation it has caused, so Trump will be backing out soon, declaring victory but defeated in his goal of regime change to put in place a puppet. Teh movement to stop arming Israel is also growing, with even 39% of American Jews believing Israel is committing genocide, and most Democrats now supporting the Sanders bill to stop arming Israel. The changes will be denied by the Trump thugocracy but that is simply to cover up their weakness.
Psychopaths rise to the top of many professions but seriously infest the political class. These are exactly the sort of people who will claw and lie their way to the top.
Actually although arguable, psychopathic behavior in children can be managed and that some psychopaths can develop awareness and alter their destructive behavior (according to an article in Scientific American that I recently read).
Here's a cure: get out there tomorrow along with ten million Amerians to declare No King, no fascists, no wars. And then elect progressives in November who support stopping shipping arms to Israel and reversing the slide into fascism. If you can't land a hand get out of the way. Change is coming and you can be part of it or wring your hands that it is too late, or not enough. As Dr. King said: "It's always the right time to do the right thing."
Disgusting USians object to the criminal imperialist war crimes of their faux-country on economic grounds, or logistical grounds - but never on moral grounds. They are incapable of saying that what their "country" is doing on their behalf is wrong because they lack an authentic moral sense. The fact that the crimes of the rogue US regime is resulting in the loss of blood and ill-gotten treasure from the rogue US regime itself is irrelevant.
In fact, the organized crime outfit masquerading as a country known to the world as the rogue US regime has reduced everything to a balance sheet. Right and wrong are tools of accountancy for the average bean-counting USian. The foreign policy of the vile hegemon is the result of a carefully constructed cost-benefit analysis. The lives of children are counted against the cost of a bomb. Sovereignty equates to third quarter earnings. This is the calculus of a sub-human monster.
As an outsider, it seems that no USian is capable of looking at any of the numerous war crimes, or crimes against humanity, of their "country" and observe that what their "government" is doing is a crime, and in many cases the ultimate crime. If they did they would organize to stop it's criminal activities, rather than engaging in street performance art decrying fictional royalty.
"The people being murdered in Iran are no less human than Americans, and their lives don’t matter any less" - in fact they are way more human. Way way more human. And their lives matter so much more.
Well said. Very much like England, for all of Starmer's occasional hand wringing, a few of us know it's a fake bit of show. The big bombers of the US that are taking off from Fairford here in England to bomb Iranians put covering over the fences so no one could see them loading the big bombs onto the planes. Declassified UK got a stepladder and filmed from over the top of the fence to put the videos out. All Trump's loudmouth talking against the UK is just distraction hoping people here will believe what he's saying.
Exactly! Anyone that thinks the fictional disagreements between the hegemon and it's vassals are anything other than fictions are delusional. The words say one thing, the actions say something completely different.
Veronica, you’re getting Italy and SPAIN confused. Spain actually kicked out the Ziofilth ambassador. So a few dock workers in Italy went on strike for a day: big whoop. They’ve done the same here in AmeriKKKa.
Viva ESPANA! ✊🏽✊🏽✊🏽
As for Ireland: I’ve spent enough time there to know the true hearts of the Irish. Sinn Fein was the first major political organization to stand up for my people, the Palestinians.
I realized after reading g4 reply to me. I have never worked out why at my age I still confuse the two sometimes, in my defense I've never been to either place.
I admire the Irish greatly for the way they stand up for the downtrodden and helpless, I love the songs they sing about the same. I guess at the foul treatment they've had handed out to them by the English since HENRY VIII, they know exactly what it feels like. I know the true factual history of what was done against those people and how people can read prettified history and believe it, I really don't know.
As far as I can see Spain are the only European country that seme to be taking a principled stand against the latest illegal aggression of the rogue US regime.
And as an Irishman I can tell you that the Irish government is beneath contempt.
G4: I knew I liked you for a reason. My first conversation with my first Irish friend went like this: We hate the way AmeriKKKans treat the Palestinians!
I replied that I was Palestinian-American.
Their reply: WE IDENTIFY WITH YOU!
That led to me spending several weeks there. Big mistake: I sure as hell didn’t wanna come home. Have you an extra passport to sell me? 😉
I'm well aware that the Irish government in no way represents the feelings of the people. I just realised I put Italy, always found Spain and Italy confusing, don't tell them though as I'm sure it would irk them somewhat.
Virtue signaling, what are you on about and what are you doing on here? You have not one iota what I have done in the past, or what I'm doing right now but I reserve the right to come on here to mix with like minded people as much as I wish to.
I'll make you a deal - the moment my government starts bombing women and children from above, destroys countries without a second thought, kidnaps presidents of sovereign countries, exploits the world for profit, and in general shits all over what little remains of international law, I'll be the very first person to do something about it.
Until then, lets continue talking about the rogue US regime, shall we?
Pax Britannia became Pax Americana after WW2. It is all part of globalism (Imperialism) that was carried out by the fascists of the 19th-21st Centuries.
***
British and US establishments are closely intertwined, they're basically one and the same
Simply speaking, Brits are the wicked brain (Intelligence services/spy networks - colonial legacy) and the slush fund, and the U.S. is the brawn of the Global (Imperialist) Oligarchy.
CFR in the US and Chatham House in the UK. They are one and the same entity. MI6 is part of "Five eyes". UK is a founding member of NATO.
Britain exerts influence through partial ownership of the FED. City of London is the headquarter of the global banking cartel. Besides, City of London basically runs all the main offshore funds.
AND It still runs Israel through the Pilgrim Society, Privy Council, RIAA, etc.
Too many ppl still prefer to remain willfully ignorant of the fact that Zionism/Israel has always been the Anglo-American Imperialist colonial project.
The most vigorous Zio engineers in the UK: Winston Churchill, Lloyd George, Lord Balfour, Mark Sykes. Serving Alfred Milner’s Round Table system. Liaison agent: Chaim Weizmann.
We USians oppose Trump and his wars. Even Fox polling shows support for the War on Iran is negative 16, the first time a war has not rallied the public. You can ignore the facts or support our efforts, we the USians, to stop Trump and his wars.
But what about the Biden wars? Or the Obama wars? Or the Bush the second wars? Or the Clinton wars? Or the Bush the first wars? Or the Reagan wars? And so on...
The rogue US regime will not magically behave any better when the Trump has been removed from office - just as those 800+ bases around the world would not magically disappear if the illegal Zionist entity were to be wiped from the pages of time.
The problem is the organized crime outfit masquerading as a country, and not the current CEO.
Zackly. The difference being that Team D is just happy as Team R to kill children for Israel, so long as nobody misgenders the poor dears, that would be intolerable!
You are spot on with respect to Team D and Team R. The equation is simple: Team D - Team R = Rainbows! Both parties are conservative, both parties are (neo) liberal, the only difference between the two is that one is patrician and the other is vulgar.
It never ceases to amaze me that the people resident within the belly of the beast are convinced that Team D are "the Left" - they are "the Left" in the sense that my left leg is "the Left" - of course when I speak of "the Left" I mean the traditional anti-imperialist Left of the working class (which of course no longer exists).
But one thing I would disagree with - they are not killing children for Israel, they are killing children for Wall Street, for the MIC, and for any and all of the other interest groups and financial institutions that see the need to subjugate West Asia for the the sake of monopoly capitalism.
In the same way that the Ukrainian tail - or the Taiwanese tail - does not wag the USian dog, the Israeli tail does not wag the tail of the rogue US regime. Ascribing the crimes of the rogue US regime to Israel - just like blaming the Trump - obscures and deflects from the real problem.
Israel is the West Asian proxy of the rogue US regime, just as Ukraine is the Eastern European proxy of the rogue US regime, just as Taiwan, Japan, and the Philippines will soon be the East Asian proxies of the rogue US regime.
As I said elsewhere, the rogue US regime's 800+ military bases around the world will not magically disappear if and when the illegal Zionist entity is wiped from the pages of time. The problem is and always was the rogue US regime.
"Boots on the ground" and ships sunk and aircraft getting shot down are what will finally make the average USA person finally pay attention to the war. Some of them might even question WTH are we doing? In the meantime there are inexplicable "crashes" and "car accidents" over there. At some point the truth will come out so loudly it can't be missed even by the most detached from reality.
Maybe it'll be the cost of living. That will make people very upset.
Dead military personnel mean nothing to the pols except a chance to show their "patriotism" by decrying it and sending thoughts and prayers with sad faces.
But the absolute immorality of this war of aggression against another innocent country and innocent people just trying to live their lives is a looong way off for most. They are easy to fool.
Amos, that is most likely true although certainly no one polled me. Most normal people want peace. The politicians were the deciders...not the people.
However, there is a broad swath of people who think Iran is "the leading cause of terrorism in the world" and deserves what it is getting. IF they could find Iran on a map I'd be surprised. They do not live by principles but feelings.
The USA has long felt safety being separated by oceans from wars. With new weaponry this is no longer true but the feeling remains.
Let's be honest polling is done mostly only over 1,500 people and if those people happen to be chosen for the viewpoints they hold, it's not exactly a well balanced opinion of the general population.
The average US citizen opposed this war from the beginning, with even Fox news showing a minus 16 approval, the first time in our history. Americans don't want this war, period. Only people ignorant of the facts, with an ax to grind, ignore this fact. And tomorrow, up to 10 million of us will out there on the street saying no to this war and the Trump regime. What will you be doing?
You're right morally, but I encourage everyone here who is seeking to participate in substantive protest and organizing efforts to remember that strategically, this one of the most counterproductive messaging angles you can pursue. If you want to make real progress toward stopping the suffering and death that this war is causing, you need to bring people in, not push them out. And, frustrating as it is, MAGA-adjacent public figures who are getting spooked by the specter of 'boots-on-the-ground' commitments have more immediate power/influence to move us toward peace than most others at the moment.
Cathartic as it can be to write and read things like this, it is harmful to your stated goals in the near term in a very real way. You/we cannot afford to actively alienate people when they could be on the verge of switching sides.
Also Israeli mothers are moaning about their children having to go to a “safe room” because they being verbally, maybe physically, abused when Palestinian children have no safe place they can go to 😠
Yeah, I got treated to some Israeli jackhole whining that he and his family had to go to a bomb shelter several times a day in a war his government started, so how could I be so mean to call his government genocidal? O the cruelty.
If you are talking about moral consistency in opposing all war in all forms I agree.
If you are denying people the ability to redeem themselves because they now have a better view or insight or enlightenment, then I think may be the "scumbag."
When we had conscription (which we may have again soon) it was pretty easy to organize against the war, because mother's sons (and in less cases, daughters) were coming home in boxes, eg, Country Joe & the Fish "Fish Rag."
Because most of the readers in here are not threatened with conscription, nor is the Writer, they have made another mistakes earlier this month - the mistake of blaming soldiers for being soldiers instead of blaming oligarchs and their mouthpieces and political prostitutes.
When politicians switch positions, it is easy to be cynical to the point of Nihilism - but that doesnt accomplish much to End the War.
I for one am grateful when any politician or anyone, public or private, expresses opposition to continued war, whether it's in good faith or not. This is the Utilitarian response, because we cannot ultimately determine anyone's good faith without divining their heart.
100%
At this point, Iranian and Palestinian lives are far more important to Yours Truly than AmeriKKKan ones.
There are many good people in America working tirelessly against all this. Their lives matter.
It's the empire which doesn't.
If we “good AmeriKKKans” were risking our lives to overthrow the government, you’d have a point.
Some are risking imprisonment at least.
Three hots and a cot. Big whoop.
Some have already been executed in broad daylight.
I’m very aware of that.
Were they trying to overthrow the government?
Um. NO.
They are now dead, so we will never really know.
The Krusty Gnome and the Bovine claimed that they were armed terrorists. One had a holstered pistol. Another had an automobile.
CK, would you mind telling me sumthin I don’t know?
some people are risking their lives to overthrow the government. A couple of people have been shot for doing so. ICE? Minneapolis?
"There are many good people in America working tirelessly against all this..."
So we keep hearing. Get back to us when you actually do something other than street theatre and cute chants.
I'm not in the US.
G4: 👍👍👍
So what are you doing? This sort of arguing among people who claim to be on the same side is playing the empires game of divide and conquer! Everyone shut the fuck up and decide which side you’re on 😠
....I could not possibly have greater clarity...than being 100% AGAINST the Nazis and ALL the evil they perpetrate. However, that doesn't mean - for me at least- that I shouldn't critique what "my side" is doing or should do.
What are you doing? Out of interest
"What are you doing?"
How like a USian to demand the rest of the world do something about the crimes of their vile "country". How like a USian to recourse to whataboutism (as the vile USIans would say) to deflect from their moral depravity and indolence.
As it happens I am a victim of rogue US regime imperialism, which (surprise surprise) is why I look to the people of the rogue US regime to do something about the crimes of their "country". And what are you doing about the many and numerous crimes of your shithole country?
Not enough. But then I'm not the one suggesting people's lives are worthless unless they're going to sacrifice themselves in an attempt to bring down empire.
I'm not "suggesting people's lives are worthless" because they choose not to "sacrifice themselves in an attempt to bring down empire", which of course would be a noble pursuit, and hence why the vast majority of the citizens of the rogue US regime would never even dream of doing so.
I am suggesting the "people" of the rogue US regime that spend their time online (and offline) virtue signalling - like you did, and am sure regularly do - and expecting the world to come to their rescue are beneath contempt.
There really arent very many. I live in usa. Most that aren’t right wing have politics that don’t go beyond anti trump. They are mostly fine with imperialist war as long as it’s their team in charge.
When people recognize that their children and/or friends could be killed in a war it could possibly help them to see that it is the same for the "other side". At least at some point they object to people being killed. From my observations, it is mostly the children of the elite who don't get their lives put in danger. Maybe empathy is slow to grow for some, but if it starts to grow, that could be the start of recognition that war is stupid, evil, cruel, unfair, pointless........
This how one speaks after being forced-fed moral relativism and social science by the Administrative State for 2-3 decades.
Now let the food fight ensue.
Easier said than done. It’s not just Trump behind this, it’s people the common American can’t touch.
"Easier said than done..."
Who would have thought that the greatest accomplishment of the rogue US regime was to turn 320 million people into geldings.
Says who? @ K mottola
Says a militarized police force paid by the those in power to protect them against angry mobs of poor people with guns. Things would have to totally collapse for that to change. And that's going to happen. There's nothing anybody can do to stop that, which begs the question, why the fuck are you trying to save this? The best thing for this country is total implosion and to have a few generations really suffer through real poverty so that if the US is rebuilt there's a better chance it's not the monster it is today. Trying to "overthrow your government" is as futile and suicidal as a man on the tracks who believes he's gonna stop the speeding locomotive of historical inevitability. It's just a matter of time.
A ha ha ha.
You act as if there ain’t more of US than THEM!
More firearms in AmeriKKKa than men, women and children! Lemme know when it starts! ✊🏽
I know that but like I said, why do you want to save it? If by some miracle an unorganized ragtag group of untrained civilians with guns managed to destroy the institutions or crash the economy by blowing up shit, it won't change the government or the culture that created it. America will just permute into a new monster. By the way, if you tried and FAILED to overthrow the government, that monster would be even more fascistic and oppressive. We live in a police state with state-controlled media not a Hollywood movie. The whole thing will collapse on itself, it doesn't need anyone's help.
Expert gun polishers.
Russian bot trying to sow division??
?
The malignant narcissist PSYCHOPATH .... cares for NO HUMAN ...other that "itself"....
Mine too, even my own. I say that knowing what that means. Death will not remove the shame of the u.s. from it's population now and in the future. This will only be ended by Iran.
I have a question no one will answer. Will Iran after destroying the tiny force of invaders show israel what an defending country means by sending troops along with Iraq through Jordan to Tel Aviv?
You think there is something wrong with the KKK, but they would have been opposed to all this, too. It was the same group demonizing them as the ones that demonize you.
I can only speak for myself.
I was brought up in a conservative family with parents who trusted authority and believed government had our best interests at heart. They thought news was news and took the right wing line as being the moral one. As someone more interested in the outdoors and animals than politics, and as I had a comfortable lifestyle, I never questioned their beliefs, but accepted them. They were good people. From another era. I didn't start to understand until I began to travel widely. And have only realised the full extent of it more recently. I'm not a bad person either. What I don't understand is how people can ignore it once their eyes have been opened.
Don't let the taunts of the self-righteous bother you, Mary. Let them enjoy their little endorphin rush, which changes nothing.
The Second American Revolution is coming exactly because people like you and your parents are seeing through a lifetime of lies enforced by a whole mess of authorities, and because you are legion.
Most people who ignore it once they see it have positions in society that depend upon them NOT seeing it. Follow their money and you'll understand why real quick.
Yes. Thanks. 💕
From what I have seen, mostly in other countries I have been in, americans travel coaches. I guess a very fearful nation is easy to control?
We've been brainwashed by decades of 'Iran = evil' propaganda. Decades leading up to this, purposely planned to attract barely a glance.
Entire countries and their people have been randomly deemed persona non grata and are being bombed or starved. Look at what we are doing to Cuba. What has Cuba done to anyone but mind their own business? Why are they the bad guys?
Would poeple like it if another country said we gonna bomb the US because it wont give its people healthcare and is run by the Epstein class? So why it is ok to make that argument to Iranians? Or any other nation in global south?
Lots of people oppose this war for the wrong reasons too, including gas prices and economic upheaval or the lives of armed men...it is ultimately only about them and even though OTHER PEOPLE ARE BEING BUTCHERED, the West somehow still manages to portray themselves as the real victims of the aggression their countries engaged in. As I was getting gas the other day that is now at over $6 a gallon all I could think about is that at least I am not being bombed in my home.
Very few oppose this war on humanitarian grounds and with turn a blind eye when it wont affect them at all, like the starvation of Cuba. They dont see Iran or Cuba or Lebanon or Libya as countries with people who have lives to live and the right to live them in peace and with the autonomy to change their government as they see fit. They take for granted that we can just murder their leaders and scientists and bomb them. Even people who call this a win for Iran are somehow not looking at the human toll, the ancient neighborhoods and cities destroyed, the lives lost. It's all yeah we can hit them harder but then what?
Dont everyone ever underestimate the racism of the West. The same BLM and LGBTQ rights advocates who've been thumping their chests for years about the rights of others, couldnt care less what is happening to Iranians. These are actually the worst allies you can have because they are none at all.
I believe it, but do not understand how people can allow themselves to be brainwashed. Where are the moral brakes that stop them from recognising and supporting evil?
I think it's less a case of being brainwashed, and more a case of comfort induced apathy – they are comfortable with the crimes against humanity of their "government" once they get a share of the imperialist plunder.
We can see that as soon as the empire starts to decline, and the plunder starts to dwindle, the amoral unwashed starts to march against fictional kings, or Harry Potter, or whoever they are allowed to protest against.
100% 'comfort induced apathy'.
Apathy. A state of being that should never be allowed, it's like a person giving up before they even got started.
I'm with you on this one, everyone has a natural instinct to recognize right from wrong, good from evil, yet for some reason so many people ignore it and by ignoring it open themselves wide to be " brainwashed" even more. It's a choice thing more than anything else.
The only time I may allow a bit of difference is if brainwashed from birth, there again my two brothers older than myself and sister younger by seven years bought into all my parents believed, I was the only one that kicked against that warped mind talk and broke away as soon as possible.
Roger Waters called it “the bravery of being out of range.”
I own one pair of cowboy boots, de rigueur in the southwest, which I rarely wear because I walk so badly, but I'd be happy to put 'em on to forcibly jam the pointed toe up the derriere of a certain Senator Mr. Graham
I'm not sure if I'm in front of you in that queue or behind you but regardless I'm with you all the way.
Be great if we could "boot him" simultaneously. I'll bring a map of Italy for the 3rd boot.
😁 I'm game if you are.
Veronica, being an ACTUAL cowgirl: I have six pair. If you’re size 7 I’ll loan ya some.
Our feet must be twins, my exact size, extra, extra pointy ones I take it.
But of course Sister!
Thank You Caitlin
& Tim
Let’s start a tradition. Who knows. It might catch on. Let’s call this conflict by the country/ state that started it. The US/ Israel War.
The Epstein War.
Absolutely, My Feline Majesty.
The Cat's claw! Fucking cancel Israel and it's supporters.
Hi Chuck
Tabby or Cougar, we’re both FATAL!
I support the BPP.
British government ministers are referring to it in the media as “the American war on Iran”. That made me sit up when I heard it.
It is not "American hand-wringing" for most Americans opposed this war from the beginning...with even Fox news polling showing a minus 16 negative, the first time in US history that a war has not gathered support, which was its goal to distract from the Epstein scandal. Boots on the ground is not the place where Americans begin to oppose the war...this started from the beginning. Boots on the ground only serves to drag in even that minority that approved the war as promised, short and bootfree.
Yes it looks like the ruling class and the cult followers
But they seem to be in control of all that is American to the world
Personally I think that all flags and nations are dishonest tools designed to make one group of poor people fight another group of poor people, for the benefit of rich people. The US population is at -16% in its support for the war. The people don’t want it.
Same deal as you describe is happening in the Uk. I haven’t met anyone who has spoken in favour of this war, but only the most peripheral of our parties is willing to speak against it. “They” (however you want to define “they”) have taken control of our countries away from the people.
Not sure about each flag doing that in each case the wealth wealth and power accumulation limited redistribution might be underlying the flag like religion might be coopted hearts and minds tools
They pretend to be in control, but the protests against ICE in Minneapolis show the reality of their weakness, as it led to the two top ICE leaders being fired and the whole ICE horror show shut down. No regime can rule, not even a monarch, without consent of the ruled, and so despite the denials, the Trump regime is very much influenced by public opinion, especially with the November elections and the chance of the Republicans being crushed approaching. Republicans cannot withstand an unpopular war and inflation it has caused, so Trump will be backing out soon, declaring victory but defeated in his goal of regime change to put in place a puppet. Teh movement to stop arming Israel is also growing, with even 39% of American Jews believing Israel is committing genocide, and most Democrats now supporting the Sanders bill to stop arming Israel. The changes will be denied by the Trump thugocracy but that is simply to cover up their weakness.
..even the best doctors in the world don't have a solution or cure for psychopaths!....roten genes!...
Psychopaths rise to the top of many professions but seriously infest the political class. These are exactly the sort of people who will claw and lie their way to the top.
Actually although arguable, psychopathic behavior in children can be managed and that some psychopaths can develop awareness and alter their destructive behavior (according to an article in Scientific American that I recently read).
I respectfully disagree!...fauci was ''scientist''(?)...big problem!....they can hide for 40 60 years and wait...then boom!....maybe sociopath?....
Here's a cure: get out there tomorrow along with ten million Amerians to declare No King, no fascists, no wars. And then elect progressives in November who support stopping shipping arms to Israel and reversing the slide into fascism. If you can't land a hand get out of the way. Change is coming and you can be part of it or wring your hands that it is too late, or not enough. As Dr. King said: "It's always the right time to do the right thing."
I only vote for Aaron Bushnell.
I'd vote for Luigi.
https://www.dropsitenews.com/p/gaza-reconstruction-board-of-peace-hamas-democrats-congress-iran-war-israel-lebanon
But go ahead, give us more cliches.
Dr. King had some choice words for democrats and liberals, btw.
For that matter, Malcolm X's words about the unctuous and glib fox being more dangerous than the thuggish wolf come prominently to mind.
Disgusting USians object to the criminal imperialist war crimes of their faux-country on economic grounds, or logistical grounds - but never on moral grounds. They are incapable of saying that what their "country" is doing on their behalf is wrong because they lack an authentic moral sense. The fact that the crimes of the rogue US regime is resulting in the loss of blood and ill-gotten treasure from the rogue US regime itself is irrelevant.
In fact, the organized crime outfit masquerading as a country known to the world as the rogue US regime has reduced everything to a balance sheet. Right and wrong are tools of accountancy for the average bean-counting USian. The foreign policy of the vile hegemon is the result of a carefully constructed cost-benefit analysis. The lives of children are counted against the cost of a bomb. Sovereignty equates to third quarter earnings. This is the calculus of a sub-human monster.
As an outsider, it seems that no USian is capable of looking at any of the numerous war crimes, or crimes against humanity, of their "country" and observe that what their "government" is doing is a crime, and in many cases the ultimate crime. If they did they would organize to stop it's criminal activities, rather than engaging in street performance art decrying fictional royalty.
"The people being murdered in Iran are no less human than Americans, and their lives don’t matter any less" - in fact they are way more human. Way way more human. And their lives matter so much more.
Well said. Very much like England, for all of Starmer's occasional hand wringing, a few of us know it's a fake bit of show. The big bombers of the US that are taking off from Fairford here in England to bomb Iranians put covering over the fences so no one could see them loading the big bombs onto the planes. Declassified UK got a stepladder and filmed from over the top of the fence to put the videos out. All Trump's loudmouth talking against the UK is just distraction hoping people here will believe what he's saying.
Exactly! Anyone that thinks the fictional disagreements between the hegemon and it's vassals are anything other than fictions are delusional. The words say one thing, the actions say something completely different.
Yep. The only real stand alone's at this moment are Italy, I would say Ireland as well but it's their government that's the problem.
Veronica, you’re getting Italy and SPAIN confused. Spain actually kicked out the Ziofilth ambassador. So a few dock workers in Italy went on strike for a day: big whoop. They’ve done the same here in AmeriKKKa.
Viva ESPANA! ✊🏽✊🏽✊🏽
As for Ireland: I’ve spent enough time there to know the true hearts of the Irish. Sinn Fein was the first major political organization to stand up for my people, the Palestinians.
🇮🇪🇮🇪🇮🇪🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸❤️❤️❤️
I realized after reading g4 reply to me. I have never worked out why at my age I still confuse the two sometimes, in my defense I've never been to either place.
I admire the Irish greatly for the way they stand up for the downtrodden and helpless, I love the songs they sing about the same. I guess at the foul treatment they've had handed out to them by the English since HENRY VIII, they know exactly what it feels like. I know the true factual history of what was done against those people and how people can read prettified history and believe it, I really don't know.
NP Veronica. Please see my above comment to G4. 🙂
As far as I can see Spain are the only European country that seme to be taking a principled stand against the latest illegal aggression of the rogue US regime.
And as an Irishman I can tell you that the Irish government is beneath contempt.
G4: I knew I liked you for a reason. My first conversation with my first Irish friend went like this: We hate the way AmeriKKKans treat the Palestinians!
I replied that I was Palestinian-American.
Their reply: WE IDENTIFY WITH YOU!
That led to me spending several weeks there. Big mistake: I sure as hell didn’t wanna come home. Have you an extra passport to sell me? 😉
All of my solidarity with the people of occupied Palestine! And you can have mine when I leave - no charge.
I'm well aware that the Irish government in no way represents the feelings of the people. I just realised I put Italy, always found Spain and Italy confusing, don't tell them though as I'm sure it would irk them somewhat.
Your secret is safe with me - I will take it to the grave!
So do something about your own government instead of wasting time "virtue signaling" here.
Virtue signaling, what are you on about and what are you doing on here? You have not one iota what I have done in the past, or what I'm doing right now but I reserve the right to come on here to mix with like minded people as much as I wish to.
I'll make you a deal - the moment my government starts bombing women and children from above, destroys countries without a second thought, kidnaps presidents of sovereign countries, exploits the world for profit, and in general shits all over what little remains of international law, I'll be the very first person to do something about it.
Until then, lets continue talking about the rogue US regime, shall we?
The US is in fact the British Empire's nepo baby.
Pax Britannia became Pax Americana after WW2. It is all part of globalism (Imperialism) that was carried out by the fascists of the 19th-21st Centuries.
***
British and US establishments are closely intertwined, they're basically one and the same
substack.com/@beeley/note/p-164625270
***
Simply speaking, Brits are the wicked brain (Intelligence services/spy networks - colonial legacy) and the slush fund, and the U.S. is the brawn of the Global (Imperialist) Oligarchy.
youtube.com/watch?v=KaooeJzsRU8
***
CFR in the US and Chatham House in the UK. They are one and the same entity. MI6 is part of "Five eyes". UK is a founding member of NATO.
Britain exerts influence through partial ownership of the FED. City of London is the headquarter of the global banking cartel. Besides, City of London basically runs all the main offshore funds.
AND It still runs Israel through the Pilgrim Society, Privy Council, RIAA, etc.
Correct.
Too many ppl still prefer to remain willfully ignorant of the fact that Zionism/Israel has always been the Anglo-American Imperialist colonial project.
The most vigorous Zio engineers in the UK: Winston Churchill, Lloyd George, Lord Balfour, Mark Sykes. Serving Alfred Milner’s Round Table system. Liaison agent: Chaim Weizmann.
***
youtube.com/watch?v=IZjSVkkAjVk
youtube.com/watch?v=vEGVSvL6yQU
youtube.com/watch?v=rbsfynApnVg
We USians oppose Trump and his wars. Even Fox polling shows support for the War on Iran is negative 16, the first time a war has not rallied the public. You can ignore the facts or support our efforts, we the USians, to stop Trump and his wars.
But what about the Biden wars? Or the Obama wars? Or the Bush the second wars? Or the Clinton wars? Or the Bush the first wars? Or the Reagan wars? And so on...
The rogue US regime will not magically behave any better when the Trump has been removed from office - just as those 800+ bases around the world would not magically disappear if the illegal Zionist entity were to be wiped from the pages of time.
The problem is the organized crime outfit masquerading as a country, and not the current CEO.
Zackly. The difference being that Team D is just happy as Team R to kill children for Israel, so long as nobody misgenders the poor dears, that would be intolerable!
You are spot on with respect to Team D and Team R. The equation is simple: Team D - Team R = Rainbows! Both parties are conservative, both parties are (neo) liberal, the only difference between the two is that one is patrician and the other is vulgar.
It never ceases to amaze me that the people resident within the belly of the beast are convinced that Team D are "the Left" - they are "the Left" in the sense that my left leg is "the Left" - of course when I speak of "the Left" I mean the traditional anti-imperialist Left of the working class (which of course no longer exists).
But one thing I would disagree with - they are not killing children for Israel, they are killing children for Wall Street, for the MIC, and for any and all of the other interest groups and financial institutions that see the need to subjugate West Asia for the the sake of monopoly capitalism.
In the same way that the Ukrainian tail - or the Taiwanese tail - does not wag the USian dog, the Israeli tail does not wag the tail of the rogue US regime. Ascribing the crimes of the rogue US regime to Israel - just like blaming the Trump - obscures and deflects from the real problem.
Israel is the West Asian proxy of the rogue US regime, just as Ukraine is the Eastern European proxy of the rogue US regime, just as Taiwan, Japan, and the Philippines will soon be the East Asian proxies of the rogue US regime.
As I said elsewhere, the rogue US regime's 800+ military bases around the world will not magically disappear if and when the illegal Zionist entity is wiped from the pages of time. The problem is and always was the rogue US regime.
"Boots on the ground" and ships sunk and aircraft getting shot down are what will finally make the average USA person finally pay attention to the war. Some of them might even question WTH are we doing? In the meantime there are inexplicable "crashes" and "car accidents" over there. At some point the truth will come out so loudly it can't be missed even by the most detached from reality.
Maybe it'll be the cost of living. That will make people very upset.
Dead military personnel mean nothing to the pols except a chance to show their "patriotism" by decrying it and sending thoughts and prayers with sad faces.
But the absolute immorality of this war of aggression against another innocent country and innocent people just trying to live their lives is a looong way off for most. They are easy to fool.
The US population is at -16% support for the war. The people don’t want it. This is all on the politicians and their owners.
Amos, that is most likely true although certainly no one polled me. Most normal people want peace. The politicians were the deciders...not the people.
However, there is a broad swath of people who think Iran is "the leading cause of terrorism in the world" and deserves what it is getting. IF they could find Iran on a map I'd be surprised. They do not live by principles but feelings.
The USA has long felt safety being separated by oceans from wars. With new weaponry this is no longer true but the feeling remains.
Let's be honest polling is done mostly only over 1,500 people and if those people happen to be chosen for the viewpoints they hold, it's not exactly a well balanced opinion of the general population.
Exactly
The average US citizen opposed this war from the beginning, with even Fox news showing a minus 16 approval, the first time in our history. Americans don't want this war, period. Only people ignorant of the facts, with an ax to grind, ignore this fact. And tomorrow, up to 10 million of us will out there on the street saying no to this war and the Trump regime. What will you be doing?
Well said, Wren.
You're right morally, but I encourage everyone here who is seeking to participate in substantive protest and organizing efforts to remember that strategically, this one of the most counterproductive messaging angles you can pursue. If you want to make real progress toward stopping the suffering and death that this war is causing, you need to bring people in, not push them out. And, frustrating as it is, MAGA-adjacent public figures who are getting spooked by the specter of 'boots-on-the-ground' commitments have more immediate power/influence to move us toward peace than most others at the moment.
Cathartic as it can be to write and read things like this, it is harmful to your stated goals in the near term in a very real way. You/we cannot afford to actively alienate people when they could be on the verge of switching sides.
Also Israeli mothers are moaning about their children having to go to a “safe room” because they being verbally, maybe physically, abused when Palestinian children have no safe place they can go to 😠
Yeah, I got treated to some Israeli jackhole whining that he and his family had to go to a bomb shelter several times a day in a war his government started, so how could I be so mean to call his government genocidal? O the cruelty.
If the shoe fits, bitch....
If you are talking about moral consistency in opposing all war in all forms I agree.
If you are denying people the ability to redeem themselves because they now have a better view or insight or enlightenment, then I think may be the "scumbag."
When we had conscription (which we may have again soon) it was pretty easy to organize against the war, because mother's sons (and in less cases, daughters) were coming home in boxes, eg, Country Joe & the Fish "Fish Rag."
Because most of the readers in here are not threatened with conscription, nor is the Writer, they have made another mistakes earlier this month - the mistake of blaming soldiers for being soldiers instead of blaming oligarchs and their mouthpieces and political prostitutes.
When politicians switch positions, it is easy to be cynical to the point of Nihilism - but that doesnt accomplish much to End the War.
I for one am grateful when any politician or anyone, public or private, expresses opposition to continued war, whether it's in good faith or not. This is the Utilitarian response, because we cannot ultimately determine anyone's good faith without divining their heart.
I shuddered when the first Israeli bombs killed the Iranian leaders… I also shuddered when Israel bombed Qatar during negotiations….