Other arguments aside, I can no longer look at images of Palestinian toddlers with bleeding wounds to their faces and limbs and not instantly wish all Israelis and their Zionist supporters elsewhere in the world immediate demise by some punishing end like immolation by napalm.
Kind of hard to resist such thoughts, eh Vin? But with a rogue state like Israel and its Big Daddy rogue state insouciantly, and routinely dishing out the misery, I feel they richly deserve the 'what goes around comes around' treatment. If Mileikowski (N'yahu) were actually trying to stamp out empathy, consideration, compassion for his cause, he couldn't be doing a better job. He's rapidly convincing the wider world population (but not necessarily leaders) that he's one extremely evil son-of-bitch, backed by a brain-dead, evil US prez. Israel's 'victim' schtick has gone on long enough and anyone who still falls for it is a dangerous fuckwit.
That is the absolutely best solution to the whole mess. There is absolutely no reason for Israel to exist, or to have been invented in the first place. It makes no sense to have an entity like Israel foisted upon the entire world. Eliminate Israel and the world will be a better place. Israel is the mother of so many evils, that it is impossible to count them.
In a just world, I’d prefer an Iranian, with Russian/China tech support, missile barrage for Israel, and individual cellphone explosions for the Zionist supporters. And having Turkey do a USS Liberty job on any Israel ship heading for a humanitarian mission to Gaza. Blow the U.S./Greater Israel unipolar project straight to hell.
Whew! OK, back to advocating nonviolent civil disobedience.
You are dreaming fairy tails dude. Complete with the 'arrogance' of 'being right'.
You bring a state that still has the full backing of the US policy makers, finances and military, that has a nuclear arsenal to heel?
What ya think those lunatics will pull off when they see themselves being destroyed?
Even more your pushing for exact the same lunacy as Jonathan Pollard's pushes for: " Israel will have to go to war with Turkey and Egypt once they finish off Iran, Gaza, and Lebanon."
In a just world 'evil will not be stopped by more evil' that's a mediavial world view at best.
Bart you are such an obvious zionist apologist and israeli firster. Pretending to be even-handed and reasonable but everyone can see through your BS propaganda.
Worse, he's a european. He wants so badly to believe that laws are self-executing, that authority gives a rat's ass for the peons, that moral arguments and reasoned persuasion work.
Some years ago, I read a Russian rabbi's article in a Russian paper, bemoaning the fact that Russia was not Protestant, that european values of polite discourse hadn't taken hold. This is a common attitude of educated Russians.
The response, of course, was that those very civilized europeans are what put his ancestors in the camps, and it wasn't reasoned discourse and moral suasion that got them out of those camps, but deadly and merciless force, as applied by one I.V.Stalin.
The Soviet Union defeated Nazi Germany, because the Soviets were ready, willing and able to do whatever it takes to win.
Nick, interesting by very predictable - as in so many doctrines ' a reflective thought can not be tolerated - only 'in-group' thoughts can be allowed.
Here is my doctrine: "Evil is Evil"
calling for blatant genocide of whomever - in this case the 'calling for a genocide of Israeli's is as evil as calling for genocide on Palestinians or any other population.
Just calling out the broad stroke 'of emotion' - where 'all Israeli's' including children, arabs, those who are very anti-Nethanyahu, ... ' should be napalmed... is as sick as Trump calling for the total obliteration of Iran a few weeks ago. It is as sick as Israeli politicians and media pundits say about about Palestinians daily.
If you can not even come to 'think' or have the willingness to understand the distinction, I can't help. Call me a zionist apologist or anything else, feel free.
But at least use a bit 'of 'real self-thinking' (instead of just trigger responding) when you call for a genocide on whomever you think should be genocided.
The plight of the Palestinians is as far as you need to look to see that argument doesn't stack up in the material world. They tried every option available to them, co-operation, diplomacy, political engagement, appealing to the rest of the "civilised" world for help, and even international humanitarian law. What did it get them? Absolutely fucking nothing.
There comes a point where the only way to uphold ones sovereignty is to beat your oppresor at their own game. It doesn't make you equally as bad, because the principle on which you're doing it is not one of hatred, but one of necessity. Hamas with their Al Aqsa flood was not abbohrance, it was the revolt of the imprisoned slaves, and the axis of resistance across Palestine, Lebanon and Iran, is the ONLY force actually pushing the genocidal colonial settler project back.
If you have any other methods of stopping the genocidal regime backed by the Western powers, I'm all ears, because so far "civilised society" has achieved jack shit, while people continue to be terrorized and slaughtered.
I already explained it to you. October 7 was no different to slaves revolting against their masters and killing some of the 'innocents' in the oppressive population in the crossfire.
Would you condemn the black slaves like Nat Turner for killing the families of their slave-owning masters in the chaos of their uprising?
Would you condemn the Jewish revolt in the Warsaw ghetto for killing some of the families if their Nazi oppressors?
I would like to hear your answers to those questions Bart.
Oct 7 was not the start. Go back to 1948 and the nakba and clearances in Palestine. That's when things really got hot. Zionazis deserve no consideration at all.
David history is not the point here, it's a silly dead end of reasoning about what can be seen as evil today. Clearly Israel's actions are that. You though do not have to become like them by just calling for the genocide of all Israeli's and zionist backers.
Need I remind you humans of the Gaza Border Fence Protests. Israeli snipers gleefully shot children, while Israelis picknicked at the fence and watched the shooting.
Great sport!
Then we were treated to Zionists telling us how this showed what subhumans the Gazans are, brining children where they could be shot. Yet not a peep about the guilt of the shooters.
This is what we are dealing with. There is no moral reasoning with such, as morality is of interest to Zionists, solely to the extent that it can be weaponized.
The only game that the oppresor can and eventually wil be beaten at is their lobbying game around the world. Win that and Israel leadership will have to change from far right lunatics to more moderates and they will be forced to write a different origin narrative within the next generation. A physical war will never be "won" quite the opposite. Gaza is effectively lost. South Libanon soon.
Pushing antisemitism online is leading to more of those who feel threatened around the world to migrate to Israel and become land grabbing settlers in the west bank, gaza and south libanon.
Being anti-Israel foreign policy is NOT anti semitism. It is rational and ethical. I don't give a stuff about anyone's ethnicity, theology, personal predilections, whatever. I hate Israel's foreign policy and its advocates.
I agree 100% though I also can understand that for Jews and Israeli's around the world when they get fed things like " ...else in the world immediate demise by some punishing end like immolation by napalm " this would not come across as just a critique on Israels' foreign policy.
To know whom we are dealing with here, look at the loony--fringe (Ben-gvir, Smotrich et al) and their attitude to the Goyim (non-Jews). These extremists are keeping Mileikowski in power and they have nothing but contempt for 'the other' (i.e. us).
Bart, the oppresor in this case includes the political and in many cases material support of the political establishments of almost every 'civilised/western' country on Earth, most notably the authoritarian white supremacist government of the United States, including ALL of the financial resources that entails, oligarchs included. What you're advocating for, is for the proletariat of pre-revolutionary France to stick to fighting a political game that is designed explicitly to keep them losing, as opposed to rejecting the rigged game altogether and assembling the guillotines to eliminate the malignant cancer at its root.
I don't think you are yet grasping that our governments are not just failing to help Palestinians, but are and always have been complicit in the colonial machine of which Israel is only the most recent iteration of.
Sure. As some hate Palestine or Iran, Russia, US,...
Though the call by Vin here was about genocide. You hate genocide as well I assume. But you would support genocide on all Israeli's (incl children, elderly, arabs, ...) and their zionist backers ? Is that what you are saying?
Don’t be simplistic in your thinking. Virtually none who comment here would wish equivalent evil on any population such that Israel has committed. Doesn’t change the fact that it is also understandable to wish that such evil be eradicated by, as Malcolm said, any means necessary.
But no matter how you turn it? Evil will not be eradicated when you become evil as well. The discussion here is not that Israel's actions are not evil, they are...but the manners in which way it can effectively be stopped. Whishing on them what they did to others isba clear example of "simplistic" thinking
Feral, That's obvious - this remark was specifically to the lunacy of those calling for genocide of all Israeli's around the world - (it still can get worse ya know- when those who loudly claim to fight the evil empire, turn up the notch of lunacy ... )
Gypsy, I never suggested to just reason with the tiger. But in the case of being locked up and rather choosing to go on the offence, attacking the tiger because I stopped willingly to use my own brain I write my own demise.
No. That's not the issue; the issue is you're all ignoring f'n reality - bombing Israel to smithereens is not gonna happen any time soon, neither is genociding all Israeli's around the world gonna happen.
What though can and probably will happen is that their lobbying capacity will take a heavy hit. This will curb them more than any other 'lunacy' hate driven idea - which will only plays in the hands of the Greater Israel zionists and their use of anti-semitism as a tool to drive more settlements by new migration floods from the rest of the world to Israel, Gaza and the West-Bank.
So turn up the notch on lunacy a bit more and you'll play in their handbook.
Israel's lobbying capacity and its combination of bribes and blackmail are all doing just fine. They'll scream "antisemitism" in response to any criticism, however well-founded and value-neutral, and they have the carrot and stick to make politicians listen.
Force is the only language that sociopaths listen to.
Notice I never said a word about "hate". I am a cat, an obligate carnivore, both predator and prey. I don't hate the rabbits I hunt and eat, but I also show no mercy to them, either.
He’s got a lot of worthy successors in the US military.. like .. Powell.. Wesley Clark..Hegseth?
Powell didn't just 'cover up' the My Lai massacre in Vietnam, he even authored the report that completely whitewashed one of the worst war crimes in U.S. history, claiming relations between the soldiers and Vietnamese were "excellent." He was rewarded for that lie with a four-star rank and eventually Secretary of State.
That is the formula for American success. Lie about the war crime, get promoted, and then sell the next war crime (Iraq) to the UN.
It is no longer necessary to argue with Zionists; we need to erase them with moral logic. This is happening faster than anyone imagined as nations that supported Israel now condemn it; as American Jews find Zionism a genocidal ideology, and as the man who is their last ally sinks into the infamy that befits him.
More American Jews need to wake up and admit that this lie they supported is evil. Their ignorance and blind following and blind support of Isreal is also responsible for this genocide!
Funding genocide is an obviously horrendous war crime! Those who did should be in prison for life at the very least. That means almost all of our own "politicians."
I don't believe Israel deserves high levels of support. Those of us with morals and empathy have no choice but to be critical of Israel and its genocidal actions.
I'm saving a scornful laugh in the shape of a punch for the first liberal who comes to me pleading "But now I mean it" after the masses really do get tired of Israel's bullshit and become violent. I'll say it to my dying day: Israel is not antisemitic because it makes the world more dangerous for Jews (though it does do that). It's antisemitic because of its depraved actions against the Arabs, Palestinians, and other (actual) Semitic peoples of West Asia.
If Israel is without fault (and not being able to criticize something means it's essentially "faultless"), then whatever they do is admirable. So, will we now witness dogs raping prisoners in our own prisons? Can we expect our hospitals, schools, and churches to be bombed incessantly? I mean, if Israel is so darn perfect shouldn't we be copying all their wonderful actions? No? Then they should be criticized and ostracized. Case closed.
"You cannot simultaneously claim that it is [fill in blank with whatever Israeli/Zionist outrage against humanity you wish]."
Oh, Caitlin, Caitlin, wise, sagacious, incisive, perspicacious, forthright Caitlin, OF COURSE you can simultaneously claim whatever you desire, no matter how inherently contradictory, nonsensical, or odious to basic human decency, as you are speaking of ZioWorld - exponentially incalculable beyond Bizzaro World - in which all fundamental precepts of the natural, physical, immaterial, logical, moral, and imagined universe simply do not hold true, do not matter, as all is subsumed to the one, the only reality, Israel/Zionism.
Another stellar case of moral logic from the master. Sad that the logic will penetrate only the minds of those not terminally brainwashed, or those on the verge of an awakening. The others who need it most can’t hear it.
It's like trying to have a conversation with a cult member. They are prepared with a knee-jerk, premeditated and fleshed out response to any criticism of Israel. For example... "do you think that Iran is a monster?" (Pompeo when faced with the reality on the ground).
The house of cards is falling so they cling to the idea of the house rather than the reality that the house is falling and cognitive dissonance has taken over their brain cells.
Another example, the claim that 30k to 50k people were murdered in Iran during the 2 days of protests. No logical thinking about how ludicrous that is to think that that many people could be slaughtered in 2 days without bombs being dropped on them.
But if you compare it with the 72k or much more killed in Gaza via all kinds of munitions, just to help them see what a ridiculous conclusion that is, their eyes glaze over because then they'd have to make a real comparison and take it a bit further and look at how those 72k+ got killed and who did it.
Or if you tell them that the USA and MOSSAD armed the protestors(which could be called an insurrection or coup) with the distinct purpose of regime change,
they'd say, "but Iran is a brutal theocracy and should have their regime changed."
Then you say, what about Israel, that whole state believes it has the right to exist on someone else's land because their holy book told them so, and in steps cognitive dissonance,
"but that's not a theocracy, Israel is a democracy and has the most moral army in the world."
But it has killed tens of thousands of civilians.
"Well, they shouldn't have committed those atrocities on October 7, 2023."
You ask, do you actually think that 72k Palestinians were involved in October 7, 2023?
They say, "no but they support Hamas and Hamas is a terrorist group."
You say, don't you think that dropping bombs on people in tents is terrorism?
And they say, "no because they supported Hamas."
You really can't talk to a person who is part of a cult. They will only retort with circular logic, prefabricated responses, cognitive dissonance and hurt feelings screaming,
"you just want us all dead."
Even if you tell them clearly, but Israel is the one with the support of most all Western Nations, billions of dollars and nuclear arms.
Then you get, "Don't you think that Israel has the right to exist?" and more cognitive dissonance.
You ask an intriguing question, Patrick. I always say that if someone gives you rights, they can also take them away. I also say that any "right" has a corresponding responsibility. Then I say, do unto others as you would have others do unto you.
If anyone has the "right" to exist then everyone should have the same right.
But when Israel says that, it means it has the right to exist by making it near impossible for anyone else to exist who is not a Zionist, if you ask me. Even Jews don't have that right if they are not Zionists. So you know what it says about the rest of humanity.
Caitlin keeps keeping on. If not for her we will be wallowing in our own misery - unable to find any place to communicate with like minded comrades. Many thanks, Caitlin and Tim.
Alas appeals to consistency with these people work about as well as they do with the average Trump supporter. One of their core competencies is dissociation.
Yep. Mary, I was thinking the same thing. Although I would wager that there are some women who have become psuedo-psychological patriarchs and then there are some men who love their feminine side, so it still might add up to have the world. Lots of women and a few men blended into the group.
Israel relies on ignorance of the community. There is nothing but deception in every action the state performs. Zionist ideology thrives on ignorance of the community. The "greater israel project" is based purely on greed and theft. Some in the community "think" israel has a right to expand. That is pure crap without any Biblical basis whatsoever. The good news is Jesus the Christ but israel does not see it that way.
For 300,000 thousand years, our human ancestors had no (zero evidence) lethal group conlict. Their ultimate punishment was silence, isolating those who sought to dominate and destroy the common bond, erasing them as members of the tribe. This is a punishment far more essential than death, for it is living death. And that is what the genocidal Zionists are getting. The coldness they feel is a punishment that far exceeds the escape of death.
Be alert to discover, enhance, and participate in The Great Awakening, The Great Shaming, The Great Shunning, The Great Ostracism, The Great Boycott. We people cannot rely on our political leaders, we must rally behind leaders who assert The Fundamental Human Principle; i.e., We are us, the only extant human species on the planet, a fact that demands a single, universal morality. There's no other morality. Christian morality, Jewish morality, Muslim morality are all false morality. We must all see through all such false morality to our own humanity and the humanity in all others. This is morality. It's wrong to commit genocide on a group of people because our group differs from theirs.
Other arguments aside, I can no longer look at images of Palestinian toddlers with bleeding wounds to their faces and limbs and not instantly wish all Israelis and their Zionist supporters elsewhere in the world immediate demise by some punishing end like immolation by napalm.
Kind of hard to resist such thoughts, eh Vin? But with a rogue state like Israel and its Big Daddy rogue state insouciantly, and routinely dishing out the misery, I feel they richly deserve the 'what goes around comes around' treatment. If Mileikowski (N'yahu) were actually trying to stamp out empathy, consideration, compassion for his cause, he couldn't be doing a better job. He's rapidly convincing the wider world population (but not necessarily leaders) that he's one extremely evil son-of-bitch, backed by a brain-dead, evil US prez. Israel's 'victim' schtick has gone on long enough and anyone who still falls for it is a dangerous fuckwit.
Couldn't agree more strongly, David. Way too long. My resistance to images of children suffering is very very low.
He doesn't need empathy compassion or consideration, any more than a predator does.
Totally agree, Feral!
Too many humans live in a fantasy world. That is why they keep losing.
Anyone still living in Israel obviously supports their Govt. Take the whole 'damned' State out.
That is the absolutely best solution to the whole mess. There is absolutely no reason for Israel to exist, or to have been invented in the first place. It makes no sense to have an entity like Israel foisted upon the entire world. Eliminate Israel and the world will be a better place. Israel is the mother of so many evils, that it is impossible to count them.
In a just world, I’d prefer an Iranian, with Russian/China tech support, missile barrage for Israel, and individual cellphone explosions for the Zionist supporters. And having Turkey do a USS Liberty job on any Israel ship heading for a humanitarian mission to Gaza. Blow the U.S./Greater Israel unipolar project straight to hell.
Whew! OK, back to advocating nonviolent civil disobedience.
Great solution Tom. And then what's next? Israel bombing Istanbul?
No, Israel would have been brought to heel with the Iranian missile barrage. Try to keep up.
You are dreaming fairy tails dude. Complete with the 'arrogance' of 'being right'.
You bring a state that still has the full backing of the US policy makers, finances and military, that has a nuclear arsenal to heel?
What ya think those lunatics will pull off when they see themselves being destroyed?
Even more your pushing for exact the same lunacy as Jonathan Pollard's pushes for: " Israel will have to go to war with Turkey and Egypt once they finish off Iran, Gaza, and Lebanon."
In a just world 'evil will not be stopped by more evil' that's a mediavial world view at best.
Anyway I wish you the best in life.
Bart you are such an obvious zionist apologist and israeli firster. Pretending to be even-handed and reasonable but everyone can see through your BS propaganda.
Worse, he's a european. He wants so badly to believe that laws are self-executing, that authority gives a rat's ass for the peons, that moral arguments and reasoned persuasion work.
Some years ago, I read a Russian rabbi's article in a Russian paper, bemoaning the fact that Russia was not Protestant, that european values of polite discourse hadn't taken hold. This is a common attitude of educated Russians.
The response, of course, was that those very civilized europeans are what put his ancestors in the camps, and it wasn't reasoned discourse and moral suasion that got them out of those camps, but deadly and merciless force, as applied by one I.V.Stalin.
The Soviet Union defeated Nazi Germany, because the Soviets were ready, willing and able to do whatever it takes to win.
Right on as always Nick 👍👍👍
Nick, interesting by very predictable - as in so many doctrines ' a reflective thought can not be tolerated - only 'in-group' thoughts can be allowed.
Here is my doctrine: "Evil is Evil"
calling for blatant genocide of whomever - in this case the 'calling for a genocide of Israeli's is as evil as calling for genocide on Palestinians or any other population.
Just calling out the broad stroke 'of emotion' - where 'all Israeli's' including children, arabs, those who are very anti-Nethanyahu, ... ' should be napalmed... is as sick as Trump calling for the total obliteration of Iran a few weeks ago. It is as sick as Israeli politicians and media pundits say about about Palestinians daily.
If you can not even come to 'think' or have the willingness to understand the distinction, I can't help. Call me a zionist apologist or anything else, feel free.
But at least use a bit 'of 'real self-thinking' (instead of just trigger responding) when you call for a genocide on whomever you think should be genocided.
So we've become the evil we despise? If we really want to change the world for the better then let's start with getting hate out of our own bones.
The plight of the Palestinians is as far as you need to look to see that argument doesn't stack up in the material world. They tried every option available to them, co-operation, diplomacy, political engagement, appealing to the rest of the "civilised" world for help, and even international humanitarian law. What did it get them? Absolutely fucking nothing.
There comes a point where the only way to uphold ones sovereignty is to beat your oppresor at their own game. It doesn't make you equally as bad, because the principle on which you're doing it is not one of hatred, but one of necessity. Hamas with their Al Aqsa flood was not abbohrance, it was the revolt of the imprisoned slaves, and the axis of resistance across Palestine, Lebanon and Iran, is the ONLY force actually pushing the genocidal colonial settler project back.
If you have any other methods of stopping the genocidal regime backed by the Western powers, I'm all ears, because so far "civilised society" has achieved jack shit, while people continue to be terrorized and slaughtered.
Damn right, Dred. Turning the other cheek just gets both cheeks slapped.
David, how is that any different from Israel's response to Oct7? They clearly didn't turn the other cheek.
I already explained it to you. October 7 was no different to slaves revolting against their masters and killing some of the 'innocents' in the oppressive population in the crossfire.
Would you condemn the black slaves like Nat Turner for killing the families of their slave-owning masters in the chaos of their uprising?
Would you condemn the Jewish revolt in the Warsaw ghetto for killing some of the families if their Nazi oppressors?
I would like to hear your answers to those questions Bart.
Oct 7 was not the start. Go back to 1948 and the nakba and clearances in Palestine. That's when things really got hot. Zionazis deserve no consideration at all.
David history is not the point here, it's a silly dead end of reasoning about what can be seen as evil today. Clearly Israel's actions are that. You though do not have to become like them by just calling for the genocide of all Israeli's and zionist backers.
Need I remind you humans of the Gaza Border Fence Protests. Israeli snipers gleefully shot children, while Israelis picknicked at the fence and watched the shooting.
Great sport!
Then we were treated to Zionists telling us how this showed what subhumans the Gazans are, brining children where they could be shot. Yet not a peep about the guilt of the shooters.
This is what we are dealing with. There is no moral reasoning with such, as morality is of interest to Zionists, solely to the extent that it can be weaponized.
Feral:
Please relinquish your feralicity and allow me to adopt you.
The only game that the oppresor can and eventually wil be beaten at is their lobbying game around the world. Win that and Israel leadership will have to change from far right lunatics to more moderates and they will be forced to write a different origin narrative within the next generation. A physical war will never be "won" quite the opposite. Gaza is effectively lost. South Libanon soon.
Pushing antisemitism online is leading to more of those who feel threatened around the world to migrate to Israel and become land grabbing settlers in the west bank, gaza and south libanon.
Being anti-Israel foreign policy is NOT anti semitism. It is rational and ethical. I don't give a stuff about anyone's ethnicity, theology, personal predilections, whatever. I hate Israel's foreign policy and its advocates.
I agree 100% though I also can understand that for Jews and Israeli's around the world when they get fed things like " ...else in the world immediate demise by some punishing end like immolation by napalm " this would not come across as just a critique on Israels' foreign policy.
To know whom we are dealing with here, look at the loony--fringe (Ben-gvir, Smotrich et al) and their attitude to the Goyim (non-Jews). These extremists are keeping Mileikowski in power and they have nothing but contempt for 'the other' (i.e. us).
Bart, the oppresor in this case includes the political and in many cases material support of the political establishments of almost every 'civilised/western' country on Earth, most notably the authoritarian white supremacist government of the United States, including ALL of the financial resources that entails, oligarchs included. What you're advocating for, is for the proletariat of pre-revolutionary France to stick to fighting a political game that is designed explicitly to keep them losing, as opposed to rejecting the rigged game altogether and assembling the guillotines to eliminate the malignant cancer at its root.
I don't think you are yet grasping that our governments are not just failing to help Palestinians, but are and always have been complicit in the colonial machine of which Israel is only the most recent iteration of.
Hate is much an emotion as love. = I hate Israel.
Sure. As some hate Palestine or Iran, Russia, US,...
Though the call by Vin here was about genocide. You hate genocide as well I assume. But you would support genocide on all Israeli's (incl children, elderly, arabs, ...) and their zionist backers ? Is that what you are saying?
Don’t be simplistic in your thinking. Virtually none who comment here would wish equivalent evil on any population such that Israel has committed. Doesn’t change the fact that it is also understandable to wish that such evil be eradicated by, as Malcolm said, any means necessary.
It is sure understandable to eradicate evil....
But no matter how you turn it? Evil will not be eradicated when you become evil as well. The discussion here is not that Israel's actions are not evil, they are...but the manners in which way it can effectively be stopped. Whishing on them what they did to others isba clear example of "simplistic" thinking
Is it wrong to stop Zionists wanting to level Lebanon and Palestine to the ground?
Become? We've been the Evil Empire for a long time now.
Feral, That's obvious - this remark was specifically to the lunacy of those calling for genocide of all Israeli's around the world - (it still can get worse ya know- when those who loudly claim to fight the evil empire, turn up the notch of lunacy ... )
BART, I like Feral’s response.
Let’s put you in a locked cage with a Siberian tiger and allow you to “reason” with it.
Alternately, in a locked cage with Yours Truly.
Gypsy, I never suggested to just reason with the tiger. But in the case of being locked up and rather choosing to go on the offence, attacking the tiger because I stopped willingly to use my own brain I write my own demise.
Ever tried moral reasoning with a predator?
No. That's not the issue; the issue is you're all ignoring f'n reality - bombing Israel to smithereens is not gonna happen any time soon, neither is genociding all Israeli's around the world gonna happen.
What though can and probably will happen is that their lobbying capacity will take a heavy hit. This will curb them more than any other 'lunacy' hate driven idea - which will only plays in the hands of the Greater Israel zionists and their use of anti-semitism as a tool to drive more settlements by new migration floods from the rest of the world to Israel, Gaza and the West-Bank.
So turn up the notch on lunacy a bit more and you'll play in their handbook.
Israel's lobbying capacity and its combination of bribes and blackmail are all doing just fine. They'll scream "antisemitism" in response to any criticism, however well-founded and value-neutral, and they have the carrot and stick to make politicians listen.
Force is the only language that sociopaths listen to.
Notice I never said a word about "hate". I am a cat, an obligate carnivore, both predator and prey. I don't hate the rabbits I hunt and eat, but I also show no mercy to them, either.
US started roasting Koreans alive with Napalm in 1948, then repeated in Vietnam.
BTW, after WW2 in Malaysia, Brits used concentration camps and "agent Orange", inspiring U.S. to adopt similar tactics against the Vietnamese..
http://youtu.be/kfqHMTBgOlM?t=635
***
"There are no innocent civilians, so it doesn't bother me so much to be killing innocent bystanders."
"You've got to kill people, and when you've killed enough they stop fighting"
"Over a period of three years or so, we killed off — what — 20 percent of the population"
"If we maintain our faith in God, love of freedom, and superior global air power, the future looks good."
"I suppose if I had lost the war, I would have been tried as a war criminal..."
-U.S. Air Force Gen. Curtis LeMay, head of the Strategic Air Command during the Korean War
***
How US troops massacred Korean civilian refugees in 1950:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Gun_Ri_massacre
Curtis LeMay was quite a piece of work that as a young man I hoped I'd never see replicated again. Turned out to be an empty hope.
He’s got a lot of worthy successors in the US military.. like .. Powell.. Wesley Clark..Hegseth?
Powell didn't just 'cover up' the My Lai massacre in Vietnam, he even authored the report that completely whitewashed one of the worst war crimes in U.S. history, claiming relations between the soldiers and Vietnamese were "excellent." He was rewarded for that lie with a four-star rank and eventually Secretary of State.
That is the formula for American success. Lie about the war crime, get promoted, and then sell the next war crime (Iraq) to the UN.
http://jacobin.com/2021/10/colin-powell-war-crimes-iraq-my-lai-massacre-iran-contra
***
"If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail"
-U.S. foreign policy, explained by U.S. War criminal and presidential candidate Wesley Clark
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grdelica_train_bombing
http://youtube.com/watch?v=6Knt3rKTqCk
Not to mention the use of napalm on Tokyo in 1945.
It is no longer necessary to argue with Zionists; we need to erase them with moral logic. This is happening faster than anyone imagined as nations that supported Israel now condemn it; as American Jews find Zionism a genocidal ideology, and as the man who is their last ally sinks into the infamy that befits him.
More American Jews need to wake up and admit that this lie they supported is evil. Their ignorance and blind following and blind support of Isreal is also responsible for this genocide!
Moral arguments are wasted on sociopaths.
Agreed - Caitlin's argument is pointless. Just ignore this silliness.
Funding genocide is an obviously horrendous war crime! Those who did should be in prison for life at the very least. That means almost all of our own "politicians."
I don't believe Israel deserves high levels of support. Those of us with morals and empathy have no choice but to be critical of Israel and its genocidal actions.
I'm saving a scornful laugh in the shape of a punch for the first liberal who comes to me pleading "But now I mean it" after the masses really do get tired of Israel's bullshit and become violent. I'll say it to my dying day: Israel is not antisemitic because it makes the world more dangerous for Jews (though it does do that). It's antisemitic because of its depraved actions against the Arabs, Palestinians, and other (actual) Semitic peoples of West Asia.
If Israel is without fault (and not being able to criticize something means it's essentially "faultless"), then whatever they do is admirable. So, will we now witness dogs raping prisoners in our own prisons? Can we expect our hospitals, schools, and churches to be bombed incessantly? I mean, if Israel is so darn perfect shouldn't we be copying all their wonderful actions? No? Then they should be criticized and ostracized. Case closed.
Shhh! Please don't give Them any more ideas.
Exactly, Caitlin. Thanks for articulating these arguments.
"You cannot simultaneously claim that it is [fill in blank with whatever Israeli/Zionist outrage against humanity you wish]."
Oh, Caitlin, Caitlin, wise, sagacious, incisive, perspicacious, forthright Caitlin, OF COURSE you can simultaneously claim whatever you desire, no matter how inherently contradictory, nonsensical, or odious to basic human decency, as you are speaking of ZioWorld - exponentially incalculable beyond Bizzaro World - in which all fundamental precepts of the natural, physical, immaterial, logical, moral, and imagined universe simply do not hold true, do not matter, as all is subsumed to the one, the only reality, Israel/Zionism.
Another stellar case of moral logic from the master. Sad that the logic will penetrate only the minds of those not terminally brainwashed, or those on the verge of an awakening. The others who need it most can’t hear it.
Fair has nothing to do with it, any more than the wealthy and fortunate must act as if they were worthy of their fortunes.
This is a question of power. Nothing more.
Yep. Genocide for billionaires. And the MIC.
It's like trying to have a conversation with a cult member. They are prepared with a knee-jerk, premeditated and fleshed out response to any criticism of Israel. For example... "do you think that Iran is a monster?" (Pompeo when faced with the reality on the ground).
The house of cards is falling so they cling to the idea of the house rather than the reality that the house is falling and cognitive dissonance has taken over their brain cells.
Another example, the claim that 30k to 50k people were murdered in Iran during the 2 days of protests. No logical thinking about how ludicrous that is to think that that many people could be slaughtered in 2 days without bombs being dropped on them.
But if you compare it with the 72k or much more killed in Gaza via all kinds of munitions, just to help them see what a ridiculous conclusion that is, their eyes glaze over because then they'd have to make a real comparison and take it a bit further and look at how those 72k+ got killed and who did it.
Or if you tell them that the USA and MOSSAD armed the protestors(which could be called an insurrection or coup) with the distinct purpose of regime change,
they'd say, "but Iran is a brutal theocracy and should have their regime changed."
Then you say, what about Israel, that whole state believes it has the right to exist on someone else's land because their holy book told them so, and in steps cognitive dissonance,
"but that's not a theocracy, Israel is a democracy and has the most moral army in the world."
But it has killed tens of thousands of civilians.
"Well, they shouldn't have committed those atrocities on October 7, 2023."
You ask, do you actually think that 72k Palestinians were involved in October 7, 2023?
They say, "no but they support Hamas and Hamas is a terrorist group."
You say, don't you think that dropping bombs on people in tents is terrorism?
And they say, "no because they supported Hamas."
You really can't talk to a person who is part of a cult. They will only retort with circular logic, prefabricated responses, cognitive dissonance and hurt feelings screaming,
"you just want us all dead."
Even if you tell them clearly, but Israel is the one with the support of most all Western Nations, billions of dollars and nuclear arms.
Then you get, "Don't you think that Israel has the right to exist?" and more cognitive dissonance.
Does anything have a right to exist? Who guarantees this right?
You ask an intriguing question, Patrick. I always say that if someone gives you rights, they can also take them away. I also say that any "right" has a corresponding responsibility. Then I say, do unto others as you would have others do unto you.
If anyone has the "right" to exist then everyone should have the same right.
But when Israel says that, it means it has the right to exist by making it near impossible for anyone else to exist who is not a Zionist, if you ask me. Even Jews don't have that right if they are not Zionists. So you know what it says about the rest of humanity.
Caitlin keeps keeping on. If not for her we will be wallowing in our own misery - unable to find any place to communicate with like minded comrades. Many thanks, Caitlin and Tim.
Alas appeals to consistency with these people work about as well as they do with the average Trump supporter. One of their core competencies is dissociation.
Swearda God, Caitlin, your brain seems to be extra-specially logical. Maybe you could get it patented and sell copies all over the place.
Trouble is that only women would buy it!
OK, let's do that, Gals. Half the earth is better than none.
Yep. Mary, I was thinking the same thing. Although I would wager that there are some women who have become psuedo-psychological patriarchs and then there are some men who love their feminine side, so it still might add up to have the world. Lots of women and a few men blended into the group.
I support Israel (being eliminated).
Israel relies on ignorance of the community. There is nothing but deception in every action the state performs. Zionist ideology thrives on ignorance of the community. The "greater israel project" is based purely on greed and theft. Some in the community "think" israel has a right to expand. That is pure crap without any Biblical basis whatsoever. The good news is Jesus the Christ but israel does not see it that way.
For 300,000 thousand years, our human ancestors had no (zero evidence) lethal group conlict. Their ultimate punishment was silence, isolating those who sought to dominate and destroy the common bond, erasing them as members of the tribe. This is a punishment far more essential than death, for it is living death. And that is what the genocidal Zionists are getting. The coldness they feel is a punishment that far exceeds the escape of death.
All Targets of the Israeli Wehrmacht should return fire with a vengeance. Just sayin’.
Yes, and multiply the armed response million times.
Be alert to discover, enhance, and participate in The Great Awakening, The Great Shaming, The Great Shunning, The Great Ostracism, The Great Boycott. We people cannot rely on our political leaders, we must rally behind leaders who assert The Fundamental Human Principle; i.e., We are us, the only extant human species on the planet, a fact that demands a single, universal morality. There's no other morality. Christian morality, Jewish morality, Muslim morality are all false morality. We must all see through all such false morality to our own humanity and the humanity in all others. This is morality. It's wrong to commit genocide on a group of people because our group differs from theirs.