Oh yes they do. Are you generalizing a whole group? There are lots of Conservatives I've had conversations with that do the same things as Liberals, use the same logical fallacies as Liberals, have their own set of biases and ways of thinking, etc.
Do you think the Conservatives do not employ propaganda? Part of propaganda is to rationalize atrocities and gaslight people (regardless if the subject is geopolitics, economics, finance, religion, whatever). Conservatives do it, and Liberals do it.
"glib symbol manipulation games" is not restricted to just "some" ideologies or some hazy definitions of "what exactly a Liberal is" or "what exactly a Conservative is".
Once you understand that the PMC, the front-row kids, the knowledge worker class, the people whose value is based on their credentials, such people are overwhelmingly liberal, all will be revealed.
Conservatives tend to align with local gentry, and their arguments tend to be more meathead, not the too-clever antics of that kid whose hand is always up in class.
not to interfere in an interesting dispute, but have you conversed with (let's say 'pure') conservatives that actually used the 'it's complicated'-line specifically on the subject of the genocide?
For those interested in a convenient list of the top ten lies about Israel, read "Ten Myths About Israel" by Ilan Pappe. From the review on Amazon: The outspoken and radical Israeli historian Ilan Pappe examines the most contested ideas concerning the origins and identity of the contemporary state of Israel. The “ten myths”—repeated endlessly in the media, enforced by the military, and accepted without question by the world’s governments—reinforce the regional status quo and include:
• Palestine was an empty land at the time of the Balfour Declaration.
• The Jews were a people without a land.
• There is no difference between Zionism and Judaism.
• Zionism is not a colonial project of occupation.
• The Palestinians left their Homeland voluntarily in 1948.
• The June 1967 War was a war of ‘No Choice’.
• Israel is the only Democracy in the Middle East.
• The Oslo Mythologies
• The Gaza Mythologies
• The Two-State Solution
For students, activists, and anyone interested in better understanding the news, Ten Myths About Israel is another groundbreaking study of the Israel-Palestine conflict from the author of The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine.
God I hate the “two state solution”, sadly the SNP in Scotland is still supportive of it and the other parties that are standing candidates in my area support Israel.
It's never going to happen now. The only way through this is one or the other "state" ceases to exist. My guess, is it will be Israel that will die a slow death in the next decade. Or maybe quickly, if the Israelis are stupid enough to drop a nuke.
Somehow when I tried to click on "Like," I got a message saying that "there was an error on clicking on Like." Possibly you're getting more Likes than Substack will allow. (And I've had comments deleted by Substack, too. It's not free speech here.)
At last someone who has more or less the same problem as I have. I cannot click on "Like" anymore. I don't even get a message as you seem to do. And this only happens on Caitlin's Substack.
Leaving aside our miniscule problem, friends, instead of focusing on a matter of life and death in Gaza, aren't we going off track? Some of our commentators here are fond of splitting hairs - our main concern should be with the on going genocide of the Palestinian people. The unspeakable atrocities they have been subjected to daily for these past nine months - as Caitlin goes to great lengths to remind us.
Front-End vs Back-End. The tech wiz Chokaski's flashing its knowledge without providing any links - grave omission! Got any links to support your claims, Chokaski? Hint: usual solution is to employ Google.
The clown just can't run out of tricks to entertain! Keep going Chokaski, today's as good a day as any. 🤣🤣🤡
We need to learn the difference between COMPLICATED and COMPLEX.
COMPLICATED is trying to under the mainstream narrative that doesn’t make sense becuase it contains so many pieces of propaganda to push a certain narrative.
COMPLEX is very simple. It involves multiple steps, but is a very simply process to follow and identity the true narrative.
Nature is complex.
Artificial is complicated.
Once we know the two, we’re much better than where we’ve started from:
I think you've hit an important nail not quite squarely on its head. Neither complex nor complicated is simple. But the former coheres, forms a satisfying whole. It may be intricate, containing many parts, but they fit together. Complicated also has many parts and stages but some are distracting and lead away from a true understanding; some others may also be lies, deliberate obfuscations. I think you got the definition of complicated correct.
Needs to go on a diet as well. Walking is good for you, regulates your blood pressure, burns fat, stengthens muscles, even reduces cholesterol levels. All Boris needs to do is walk 20 minutes a day. Poor guy.
And the other way around as well. Khazaria comes to mind. As does Gingas Khan, Tartars, I’m certain I’ve left off 50 more south to north migratory invasions.
Also learn something as you are obviously an ignorant dimwitted western infant
There are still practices in all islamic countries where it’s acceptable to gang rape women to this day
The "Taharrush gamea" means "COLLECTIVE SEXUAL ABUSE". A crowd of means surrounding a woman dressed like a west woman. Another group surrounding the group of rapists as spectators. A third group surrounds the other two and distracts people
The beheading of men is reported in the History of at-Tabari, volume 8, under the section "The Events of the Year 5," page 35:
"...Allah's Messenger went out into the market place of Medina and had trenches dug in it; then he sent for them and had them beheaded in those trenches. they were brought out to him in groups..."
It's also mention in Tafsir ibn Kathir, under the explanation of Surah al-Ahzab verse 26, under the section "The Campaign against Banu Qurayzah":
the Messenger of Allah commanded that ditches should be dug, so they were dug in the earth, and they were brought tied by their shoulders, and were beheaded. There were between seven hundred and eight hundred of them. The children who had not yet reached adolescence and the women were taken prisoner, and their wealth was seized.
It's NOT complicated. But, for those who are still hypnotized enough into getting their news from the ZioMSM, it APPEARS to be either confusing or simply the fault of Hamas.
With half the world wealth in the hands of one percent of the population (approximately $$220 trillion) those with evil intent have plenty of funds to penetrate to every level within every government and every government agency around the world with literally no consequence financially to them.
Gaza is complicated only to people who don't want to think, who don't want to commit themselves, who don't want to take any form of responsibility, and who want to be left alone in their nice, comfy little bubble.
Catlin, you write: "If you accept that we all have a responsibility to act in an ethical way..." but, you never define who or what gets to decide the definition of "ethical". I guess your assumption is you, Catlin, are the sole arbiter of right and wrong, ethical and not ethical, maturity and immaturity, shirking "responsibility" and accepting "responsibility". Or, maybe you believe such definitions are "self evident". They are not.
Sorry Catlin, you are entitled to your opines, but you are not the grand wise one that is right, were all others are wrong. You think the spiritual leaders of ISIS would agree with your definition of ethical? How about Xi or Putin? Ever ponder why it is that NO other Arab state bordering or even near Israel will accept Palestinians? Or why Kwait expelled literally 15% of it's population that were Palestinian? Somehow I doubt you have thought much about such questions.
The situation is complicated. The average folks to which you wag your righteous finger didn't create the mess, and those that did don't care what average folks....or you....think.
The uncomplicated part is understanding what you think about the situation doesn't matter. If being righteous and waging your finger at all the wrong thinkers makes you happy, all the power to you. But, you are no different than all the other blowhards on soapboxes lecturing the masses on their opinions of what is and is not.
First, many Arab countries took in Palestinians, but why should they? Why should the need to? Palestinians belong with their land. Why is it even suggested that they leave to make space for Brooklynites and Ukrainians? Why are you even using this as some sort of argument?
No sir, Caitlin’s perspective is based on a general understanding of what counts as ethical behavior or not. She’s not judging what ethical should be but observing its existence as a measure of humane behavior across all parameters. You’re claiming that she is taking a moral attack
"I guess your assumption is you, Catlin, are the sole arbiter of right and wrong"
No. She has in common the root values of the vast majority of the human race, i.e. excluding (only) sociopaths and the otherwise mentally ill, and aims to make this vast majority more conscious of those values. (Also, it's spelled "Caitlin".)
I saw yesterday on Times of India where the Chechens are constructing these beautiful apartment buildings for homeless Gazans. Admirable, so long as it’s for TEMPORARY shelter.
Palestinians belong in Palestine. Still, it fills my heart to know someone is doing SOMETHING for these beleaguered people.
Derwood, you make a common mistake in concluding that there's no morality simply because different people have different ideas about what is morally valid. You conclude that morality can only be relative, with no definition that is absolute. You don't seem to understand that many people willfully conduct immoral deeds simply because of self-centered objectives, such as lust for money and power. Why would you let such peoples' views of morality confuse you? Don't you understand that morality is simply based on the universality of us human beings? If you cannot understand what that means, you are morally ill.
I don't think you'd be so confused if someone put a knife to your throat in an attempt to steal the land you live on. I guarantee that you'd cry and bawl and plead for someone to help you in preventing this WRONGFULNESS on your person. What would you say then to an observer who tells you, "Morality is relative"?
Izzatso, you make the common mistake of believing what you want to be so, is so. But, it doesn't work that way. History proves time and again that morality is, indeed, relative. It would be nice if all humankind shared a fundamental set of core values, but, they don't. Look anywhere in the world, at any point in history, and you will find moral standards to vary widely. That's not to say certain cultures, for certain time periods, don't share a common set of moral values ...clearly they do. The West today is an example of multiple cultures sharing similar core moral values. But, at the same time, we see other cultures, living at the same time, that don't share those same moral values. Nazi Germany. Radical religious countries. Tribal based countries. Imo, it is self evident morality is, indeed, relative.
Catlin's posts are about empire, and the morality of empire. I am not defending empire morality. My point is, I don't see how one faults empire morality, whilst turning a blind eye to the morality of empire's adversaries. Is it moral for Hamas, and for those Palestinians and Arabs that subscribe to pushing Israel into the sea? Why does Catlin ignore that morality, which is certainly a rather big part of why the conflict exists in the first place. Or, the morality related to killing 6 million Jews 70 years ago, while the world did nothing to stop it, which thus now becomes the morality of never again. It is complicated, and to claim it's a matter of "growing up" and thinking right thoughts is, imo, sophomoric drivel.
Again, I am not defending empire morality. But over simplifying things to assert there is one, true, morality, and it's just a matter of accepting it, is nonsense.
As for the scenario of someone taking my land at knife point....the morality there, imo, is might makes right, so the one with the knife better hope I don't have a shotgun handy.
"[To Caitlin] you never define who or what gets to decide the definition of "ethical". I guess your assumption is you, Catlin, are the sole arbiter of right and wrong, ethical and not ethical, maturity and immaturity, shirking "responsibility" and accepting "responsibility". Or, maybe you believe such definitions are "self evident". They are not.
And
"As for the scenario of someone taking my land at knife point....the morality there, imo, is might makes right, so the one with the knife better hope I don't have a shotgun handy."
As I predicted, you will invoke morality: "kill in self-defense." You will "decide the definition of" what's moral. You will do what you criticize Caitlin for doing. You will become the "sole arbiter of right and wrong." which you condemn Caitlin for. You will act on what is "self-evident" to you.
You will demonstrate the hypocritical nature of your criticism.
You will demonstrate my claim that in such a situation you will be "not so confused" about the relative or absolute nature of morality.
Quite the contrary. You are totally correct in your analysis that I become the sole arbitar of morality. Where you have it wrong is that I am not lecturing the guy with the knife, or anyone else, that my position is superior. Might makes right is, unfortunately, the way of humankind thru history. Ask yourself....if Hamas/Hezbollah adherents could press a button and eliminate all Jews forevermore....you think they would press the button? Is that immoral? Wrong ? I doubt they would worry too much about the morality of pressing the button.
Catlin, on the other hand, asserts that hers is an absolute truth, and anyone thinking otherwise is wrong. That is false. So, no, I am not doing what Catlin is doing, nor am I a hypocrite.
The biggest problem these days is that people are taught to accept the "norms" of whatever society, country, or political group they're affiliated with. You can see how as long as you agree with them, they're agreeable, but if you disagree with them, they become VERY disagreeable. It's because most political groups and societies teach tribalism, and that to be accepted, you must hold to the group's accepted norms and narrative. They distill many complicated ideas into binary choices, and depending on your choices, you're either WITH the group, or you're AGAINST the group. There's little to no discussion on the group's accepted norms because that would require that they have critical thinking skills, which is in far too little supply these days.
If you point out that in certain areas, their ideas are diametrically opposed, their heads explode and they either quit responding, or they block or ignore you. Many can spout off different philosophies, because they have the "book knowledge," but when it comes down to explaining how things work in real life, or within historical context, they are clueless. It's the "educated idiot" syndrome that's so prevalent these days. It's very sad indeed. Cheers!
It’s all part of postmodernism’s claim that essentially nothing is inherently true, it’s only if we “believe” it is and this belief is self-validating. (If a man believes he’s a woman it makes it true.) So when Israel claims they’re only defending themselves and the world calls it genocide, they can dismiss this accusation by accusing others antisemitic. The only reality they will recognize is the one they endorse.
CS Lewis recognized this danger in The Abolition of Man — when universal ethics are ignored, destroyed or manipulated to justify the ends, there are no longer limits on our behavior. He saw this coming in the 1940s and his lecture was a warning about the path Western society was on.
"Nothing is true" is a literally half-baked vision of reality, which reasonably accepts that
(1) humans are universally, unavoidably, and perpetually imperfect and limited, and that therefore no claim can *permanently* be settled as true (and is a reason democracy, open science, adversarial justice, free speech, etc. exist);
while unreasonably rejecting that
(2) humans universally, unavoidably, and perpetually *must*, nevertheless, anywhere and everywhere make (provisional) judgments about truth in order to live and to act (but, per (1), allow those judgments always to be tested when confronted in good faith).
My understanding is that point (2) was first famously promoted by Protagoras ("Man is the measure..."), while point (1) was later famously (implicitly) recognized by Socrates ("I know that I know nothing"), but (to my knowledge) never compared side-by-side. Postmodernists seem to reject point (2) for some reason, while sneakily inserting their own supposedly unassailable claims, as if those claims are coming from gods, not humans. In our age, it looks as it it's high time to piece back together the two sides of the coin.
It's funny how in every epoch of human reasoning, you always get a bunch of loud, obnoxious doofuses who insist their "claims are unassailable", and will go to any lengths to impose their beliefs on everyone else.
And you did and do deserve it fully. As stating something obvious is not enough. Observe so-called "Realist" here.
Also, fucking one's brains out or getting drugged silly is not a protest either. Although makes one familiar with the full catalog of venereal diseases. That must amount to something.
I've always found it morally hollow to accept responsibility for a universe you believe is just an accident, and you are just a flashbulb in eternity. So rationally, it's easy to see why so many people drug out, fade out, drop out ... who come to believe it's all just some random, cruel joke. But there is the mystery of really not knowing if it is actually true. Is the universe just a giant reducible machine? Churning away for no real reason at all - that has no real meaning for a single individual living his/her "flash-in-the-pan" life? So there still may be a glimmer of hope, assuming the mystery remains. Not to mention, the psyche appears to be a tremendous, unexplainable fact of our existence. The psyche also has the peculiar nature of not being reducible to anything else.
I simply do not know why it is deemed so *essential* that human beings have a "why" for their existence. Can't we just recognize that humans can't, and thus don't, know everything? Just push the envelope as far as we can, but then stop beating ourselves up when we hit a/the wall. It's psychologically much healthier to be unpretentious.
I think the 'why' comes in when one must endure a good amount of suffering. Carl Jung wrote somewhere in his autobiography that a good number of his patients who came to him later in life were not suffering from any kind of neurosis, but simply had lost any sense of meaning in their lives.
Also, interesting to note: although Jung is well-known to borrow many of his concepts from Eastern thought, he does deal with the question of suffering in a more "Christian" like approach. Quoting Aniela Jaffe, in her book, "Jung's Last Years":
"Suffering is a challenge, enforcing self-transformation; joy is not, and it does so much more rarely." #p104
My own personal approach to finding meaning in the "mystery" Caitlin writes about, does primarily (at least currently) lie with Jungian psychological theory, which is much broader than many people suspect.
And that lecture is part of a 25-part lecture series, if you are interested. Sapolsky is brilliant and there is much to learn from him, so I would recommend the full semester course.
Gaza isn’t complicated but it is complicated to see through the bullshit that has been out in place to encourage you to avoid thinking about the horrors of Gaza.
I’ll admit that I compartmentalize horror in just this way. I can’t invest in learning about the Rohingya, Sudan, the Congo, Haiti and Ukraine along with whatever other terrible things are happening in the world. So I throw up my hands and just say “yeah that’s too much to try and figure out”.
I would like us to grow TF up too. I wonder if brutality and corruption is an inescapable feature if empires though. We might be the innovators when it comes to mass scale violence but we certainly aren’t the first and likely won’t be the last.
Thank you for the kind words - I appreciate it. I thought I had a good grasp on it before October 7th... but to paraphrase Morpheus "I had no idea how deep the rabbit hole goes"!
That’s a fair point. Not being willing to bear witness to more suffering is not the same thing as saying the suffering is “complicated” and using that as justification for letting it continue.
TBF you have been conditioned by the propaganda system your whole life. Its hard to learn where the edges of the illusions are. I learned how to do it very early in life, that's not a boast, that's a lament of being cursed. Its not a trusting or happy life.
“It’s hard to learn where the edges of the illusion are”
I am stealing that line just fyi! It perfectly explains what almost all of our issues are within the system.
I would agree that it isn’t a happy or trusting life. I am conflicted in the sense that I want my kids to live in the illusion for as long as possible for them to grow into a healthy person. It’s like they need to grow up in the dark for a long period with glimmers of light before they see the whole thing.
Hi Ela... I could be wrong but I am getting the impression that there is a combative thing going on between us here... there doesn't need to be.
Yes I am Arab. I am aware of my country's history. I am also an American who has grown up with decades of propaganda. I became aware of the difference between American propaganda and reality shortly after 9/11. The point I am trying to make is that it is very hard to break through that propaganda. I broke through it because of my family and my experience living in the Arab world. I can sympathetically understand why someone who doesn't know any Arabs outside of what they see on the News and in Hollywood would struggle with the idea that all of western media is creating a completely false narrative.
To use the Matrix analogy - I can get frustrated with the blue pills but I also understand that most people are not ready for the red pill of reality...
You may not have a miscommunication problem with Westerners, but Westerners have a severe problem with understanding themselves and therefore others.
They (we) are ignorant of how the world works and has worked, and what part their "civilization" has played in all of it.
It takes a great effort to break through the layers of myths and lies to arrive at an understanding and there are many painful episodes to conquer along the way.
Susan - nicely said. We don’t understand ourselves or our place in the world at all.
I’m a high school teacher and I am convinced that we are deliberately teaching a boring, abstract and nearly pointless things specifically so that the majority of our children become incurious and allow the elites to continue to do whatever they want. We’ll be content to not question too much as long as we can afford our Netflix subscriptions.
"They (we) are ignorant of how the world works and has worked, and what part their 'civilization' has played in all of it."
Susan, you make a profound statement, simply because you acknowledge the proper noun, "we." And Selim echoes the same truth.
In the same way, all those who identify with Judaism must say to themselves and to fellow Jews, "We are committing genocide." Only then will Judaism wake up to what the Germans woke up to just before the end of WWII. Only then will Jews fix their tribal thinking and behavior. Only the Jews can fix Judaism.
The same thing of course applies to all Americans.
Nicely stated. But I think if we have been exposed to a massive dose of propaganda then both American and Israeli Jews have been exposed to 1000x greater propaganda.
I worked at a Jewish school and talk to my former colleagues. Brilliant people. Rabbis with phds who could teach college but choose to teach high school.
Despite all of their intellectual gifts they are unwilling or unable to see or notice the suffering of anyone who isn’t them without immediately jumping to “yes but what about…” and returning to their own victimhood.
I can see what you mean that westerners are babied. I would agree with that statement.
This isn’t an excuse so much as my best attempt at an explanation.
We have been fed a lifelong diet of stories that tell us that we are the shining light of goodness and that if it weren’t for us the world would descend into chaos and anarchy.
Most people don’t want to hear a different story so they will do anything possible to ignore or avoid a story that is closer to the truth.
The fact that I know as much as I do is an accident of birth.
If I wasn’t born to an Arab family. If I hadn’t spent time living in the Arab world. If I hadn’t seen Al Jazeera and the murder of Mohammad Durrah in 2002 (my apologies if I misspelled his name). If I hadn’t developed enough curiosity to continue my personal education beyond what my bachelors degree offered me… if those things hadn’t been in my life I would continue to be ignorant and would probably support Israel and be ashamed of my heritage.
My choices are to be angry at everyone I personally know for not knowing as much as me or doing my best to enlighten people to the extent that they want to be enlightened.
To continue Caitlin’s analogy- I won’t try and force someone to “take the red pill”
As far as the collective history goes- I can’t argue with you - the west has had a horrible history. Most Americans never come across a single bit of it - we are so caught up in our “bread and circuses” to bother learning a bit of our violent history.
Not an excuse just an explanation. I can understand why people would choose not to be satisfied with the explanation.
"My choices are to be angry at everyone I personally know for not knowing as much as me or doing my best to enlighten people to the extent that they want to be enlightened."
Selim, the same is true for me. I'm astonished at the ease by which family members condemn me for saying the truth about Israel, Zionism, and Jews. I have a Jewish brother-in-law, who messaged me after I sent out a description of what's going on:
"If you send me one more e-mail for any reason, ever, I will report you to Google to be investigated and you will never be allowed in my house again, ever."
Of course, I have to maintain peace in the family. It's not easy.
Izzatso - I do feel your pain. My wife is Jewish and she is unable to talk about this stuff without becoming massively defensive. I suspect she knows that Israel is committing war crimes but she can’t bring herself to say it out loud.
I’m sorry that you have such a difficult family challenge. Maintaining family peace is important.
I have decided that my strategy is to keep quiet with family unless they bring up something that is factually wrong. I try and ask them “what if that weren’t true? How would that change your opinion?”
I have asked “would you be ok if the shoe was reversed? Would you be ok with Palestinians driving over Israeli graves?”
Some people admit that it wouldn’t change their opinion. Then I stop the conversation.
In fairness I do think a lot of Jews have been told that the world is against them so any push back feels like an attack. I think our brains can’t distinguish between an attack on our identity and an actual attack.
That quirk in our brain architecture has been ruthlessly exploited by governments, advertisers and narcissists for centuries.
"People act like they’re being humble about their own intellect and understanding, but really they’re just lying and psychologically compartmentalizing away from self-evident reality. It’s not humility, it’s just another kind of dishonesty."
Yeah, hamas is going to lead the Palestinians into thriving. Wait, they already didn't... I am not a suporter if Israel's disproportionate response, but guess what not acknowledging complexity gets you.... shitty solutions. You are the one who sounds like a child who can only read 150 words before your brain gets tired.
When used by liberals, "It's complicated" and that accursed word "nuanced" simply mean."please allow me to bullshit you."
Especially since those same ones won't usually find anything complicated re Ukraine.
LOL
HARSH, but probably true
Oh so the conservatives have a complete understanding and acceptance of Gaza? GTFU
How many conservatives have you heard use the word, "complicated," or the word, "nuanced?"
Nobody said that they did, so don't strawman.
You said, "when used by liberals." You named a particular group.
That's why Neil O'Keeffe came back with his rebuttal. And I agree with him.
Both of you miss the point. Conservatives typically don't play the glib symbol manipulation games to try and rationalize their support for atrocities.
Oh yes they do. Are you generalizing a whole group? There are lots of Conservatives I've had conversations with that do the same things as Liberals, use the same logical fallacies as Liberals, have their own set of biases and ways of thinking, etc.
Do you think the Conservatives do not employ propaganda? Part of propaganda is to rationalize atrocities and gaslight people (regardless if the subject is geopolitics, economics, finance, religion, whatever). Conservatives do it, and Liberals do it.
"glib symbol manipulation games" is not restricted to just "some" ideologies or some hazy definitions of "what exactly a Liberal is" or "what exactly a Conservative is".
Once you understand that the PMC, the front-row kids, the knowledge worker class, the people whose value is based on their credentials, such people are overwhelmingly liberal, all will be revealed.
Conservatives tend to align with local gentry, and their arguments tend to be more meathead, not the too-clever antics of that kid whose hand is always up in class.
not to interfere in an interesting dispute, but have you conversed with (let's say 'pure') conservatives that actually used the 'it's complicated'-line specifically on the subject of the genocide?
Ugh two smart guys arguing, see I'm smarter, no I am, no I am,no I am.
Wow what a worthless masturbation of word salad
Dolphins do.
I like dolphins.
Agreed!
For those interested in a convenient list of the top ten lies about Israel, read "Ten Myths About Israel" by Ilan Pappe. From the review on Amazon: The outspoken and radical Israeli historian Ilan Pappe examines the most contested ideas concerning the origins and identity of the contemporary state of Israel. The “ten myths”—repeated endlessly in the media, enforced by the military, and accepted without question by the world’s governments—reinforce the regional status quo and include:
• Palestine was an empty land at the time of the Balfour Declaration.
• The Jews were a people without a land.
• There is no difference between Zionism and Judaism.
• Zionism is not a colonial project of occupation.
• The Palestinians left their Homeland voluntarily in 1948.
• The June 1967 War was a war of ‘No Choice’.
• Israel is the only Democracy in the Middle East.
• The Oslo Mythologies
• The Gaza Mythologies
• The Two-State Solution
For students, activists, and anyone interested in better understanding the news, Ten Myths About Israel is another groundbreaking study of the Israel-Palestine conflict from the author of The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine.
God I hate the “two state solution”, sadly the SNP in Scotland is still supportive of it and the other parties that are standing candidates in my area support Israel.
It's never going to happen now. The only way through this is one or the other "state" ceases to exist. My guess, is it will be Israel that will die a slow death in the next decade. Or maybe quickly, if the Israelis are stupid enough to drop a nuke.
Somehow when I tried to click on "Like," I got a message saying that "there was an error on clicking on Like." Possibly you're getting more Likes than Substack will allow. (And I've had comments deleted by Substack, too. It's not free speech here.)
Susan Mercurio,
At last someone who has more or less the same problem as I have. I cannot click on "Like" anymore. I don't even get a message as you seem to do. And this only happens on Caitlin's Substack.
Leaving aside our miniscule problem, friends, instead of focusing on a matter of life and death in Gaza, aren't we going off track? Some of our commentators here are fond of splitting hairs - our main concern should be with the on going genocide of the Palestinian people. The unspeakable atrocities they have been subjected to daily for these past nine months - as Caitlin goes to great lengths to remind us.
I think, to be fair to substack, which might change. There are many people who do not want to read comments.
I have had the same problems too. I am getting very bored with substack mainly because there is always only one point of view.
I have noticed with Caitlin that people come and go after a few months. This does NOT mean that I disagree with her in any way.
Someone needs to keep the plight of the Palestinians going.
We have many wars on the horizon and the Palestinian people are the ones who have suffered GENOCIDE.
It could also be that substack didn't believe you.
Susan - it's just a temporary glitch (Substack has many of them - and they often don't publicize them (for obvious reasons)).
Technically: sometimes Front-End API calls to the Back-End fail (this is normal).
Usual solution: try again after a few minutes.
Front-End vs Back-End. The tech wiz Chokaski's flashing its knowledge without providing any links - grave omission! Got any links to support your claims, Chokaski? Hint: usual solution is to employ Google.
The clown just can't run out of tricks to entertain! Keep going Chokaski, today's as good a day as any. 🤣🤣🤡
NO. It was a temporary 'glitch.' Some people do not want to read answers to their comments because they reply so many times and move on.
Sorry but half the things you said are utter crap
This entire compilation is written by an idiot or a propagandist
Things antisemites say for the win.
We need to learn the difference between COMPLICATED and COMPLEX.
COMPLICATED is trying to under the mainstream narrative that doesn’t make sense becuase it contains so many pieces of propaganda to push a certain narrative.
COMPLEX is very simple. It involves multiple steps, but is a very simply process to follow and identity the true narrative.
Nature is complex.
Artificial is complicated.
Once we know the two, we’re much better than where we’ve started from:
https://unorthodoxy.substack.com/p/exploring-complexity-and-spirituality
I think you've hit an important nail not quite squarely on its head. Neither complex nor complicated is simple. But the former coheres, forms a satisfying whole. It may be intricate, containing many parts, but they fit together. Complicated also has many parts and stages but some are distracting and lead away from a true understanding; some others may also be lies, deliberate obfuscations. I think you got the definition of complicated correct.
WHO cares>>>>>>>>>>>>.complicated or complex?
The Fact is that GENOCIDE is happening and you want to discuss complicated or complex?
JennyStokes, I like your comment- this is exactly what I was trying to say. You say it beautifully with one sentence.
Yeah! Neither complex nor complicated. She gets the point of this article for sure.
Conflicts in the Middle East exist because the United States is involved.
Mostly true for the last century. But not true for the last few thousand years.
Says Lamenta who knows nothing about history… ;-))
You need to lay off that champagne a bit Boris.
I'd dump bowtie too.
Needs to go on a diet as well. Walking is good for you, regulates your blood pressure, burns fat, stengthens muscles, even reduces cholesterol levels. All Boris needs to do is walk 20 minutes a day. Poor guy.
You have exposed yourself as one who knows little to nothing about history.
Your response to Boris Petrov is childish.
Is it supported by Dr Gene Sharp's work? That the US wasn't involved in the Middle East around, say, the year 1100?
Susan Mercurio - one of a number of returning trolls, we haven't seen in awhile.
And the other way around as well. Khazaria comes to mind. As does Gingas Khan, Tartars, I’m certain I’ve left off 50 more south to north migratory invasions.
Thx. Learn something new every day. Best
The mid East did enough raping of captives without European help
Mohamad was one of them
Wikipedia😵💫😵💫🐑💩 - now I know you are a full blown moron !
Also learn something as you are obviously an ignorant dimwitted western infant
There are still practices in all islamic countries where it’s acceptable to gang rape women to this day
The "Taharrush gamea" means "COLLECTIVE SEXUAL ABUSE". A crowd of means surrounding a woman dressed like a west woman. Another group surrounding the group of rapists as spectators. A third group surrounds the other two and distracts people
Not only did mohamedian cult killed their enemies they also killed and raped those Muslims that did not go along with Mohammad’s ways !
The beheading of men is reported in the History of at-Tabari, volume 8, under the section "The Events of the Year 5," page 35:
"...Allah's Messenger went out into the market place of Medina and had trenches dug in it; then he sent for them and had them beheaded in those trenches. they were brought out to him in groups..."
It's also mention in Tafsir ibn Kathir, under the explanation of Surah al-Ahzab verse 26, under the section "The Campaign against Banu Qurayzah":
the Messenger of Allah commanded that ditches should be dug, so they were dug in the earth, and they were brought tied by their shoulders, and were beheaded. There were between seven hundred and eight hundred of them. The children who had not yet reached adolescence and the women were taken prisoner, and their wealth was seized.
Dimwit - learn something
Here’s Lara who was gang assaulted during the Arab Spring jubilee
You western infants are clueless
https://youtu.be/qx1FpHBfiGg?si=W1sZpJ16EgNuEA3V
Want to discuss rapes in Europe by gangs of migrant Muslims ?
https://wwmt.com/amp/news/nation-world/full-measure-the-rape-game
It's NOT complicated. But, for those who are still hypnotized enough into getting their news from the ZioMSM, it APPEARS to be either confusing or simply the fault of Hamas.
Meanwhile, here in the UK on the Gaza genocide " beat" we are dealing with a Labour Party that is hiring former Israeli intelligence agents to spy on electoral reform groups: https://theleftlane2024.substack.com/p/a-former-israeli-intelligence-officer
Don't be surprised if those "spies" are also minders, police informants and agents provocateurs.
With half the world wealth in the hands of one percent of the population (approximately $$220 trillion) those with evil intent have plenty of funds to penetrate to every level within every government and every government agency around the world with literally no consequence financially to them.
Yes I saw this! What can save us all?
Humor, Jenny. Don't take yourself too seriously, along with anybody or anything else. You can only do so much.
Gaza is complicated only to people who don't want to think, who don't want to commit themselves, who don't want to take any form of responsibility, and who want to be left alone in their nice, comfy little bubble.
Catlin, you write: "If you accept that we all have a responsibility to act in an ethical way..." but, you never define who or what gets to decide the definition of "ethical". I guess your assumption is you, Catlin, are the sole arbiter of right and wrong, ethical and not ethical, maturity and immaturity, shirking "responsibility" and accepting "responsibility". Or, maybe you believe such definitions are "self evident". They are not.
Sorry Catlin, you are entitled to your opines, but you are not the grand wise one that is right, were all others are wrong. You think the spiritual leaders of ISIS would agree with your definition of ethical? How about Xi or Putin? Ever ponder why it is that NO other Arab state bordering or even near Israel will accept Palestinians? Or why Kwait expelled literally 15% of it's population that were Palestinian? Somehow I doubt you have thought much about such questions.
The situation is complicated. The average folks to which you wag your righteous finger didn't create the mess, and those that did don't care what average folks....or you....think.
The uncomplicated part is understanding what you think about the situation doesn't matter. If being righteous and waging your finger at all the wrong thinkers makes you happy, all the power to you. But, you are no different than all the other blowhards on soapboxes lecturing the masses on their opinions of what is and is not.
Bullshit. Caitlin tells it like it is and is on the side of truth, fairness and above all, PEACE.
Now YOU tell ME. WTF is “complicated” about a rabid-dog quasi-nation committing GENOCIDE? Unless you’re a western apologist for Israhell-Heil?
Has she defined yet what the Empire really is ?
Or does it still seem mysterious to you ?
Freedom of Association is tough for social liberals because that is the basis for a Free Market - Freedom of Market Associations.
Many social liberals will require you to associate with the state in direct contradiction to Freedom of Association which I consider a liberal must.;
First, many Arab countries took in Palestinians, but why should they? Why should the need to? Palestinians belong with their land. Why is it even suggested that they leave to make space for Brooklynites and Ukrainians? Why are you even using this as some sort of argument?
No sir, Caitlin’s perspective is based on a general understanding of what counts as ethical behavior or not. She’s not judging what ethical should be but observing its existence as a measure of humane behavior across all parameters. You’re claiming that she is taking a moral attack
on people when her point is the absence of
true understanding and concern of human
beings at events of moral transgression.
Dear derwood - you are just another piece of shit
"I guess your assumption is you, Catlin, are the sole arbiter of right and wrong"
No. She has in common the root values of the vast majority of the human race, i.e. excluding (only) sociopaths and the otherwise mentally ill, and aims to make this vast majority more conscious of those values. (Also, it's spelled "Caitlin".)
"Ever ponder why it is that NO other Arab state bordering or even near Israel will accept Palestinians?"
This was a favorite justification used by antisemites.
Hi Feral
I saw yesterday on Times of India where the Chechens are constructing these beautiful apartment buildings for homeless Gazans. Admirable, so long as it’s for TEMPORARY shelter.
Palestinians belong in Palestine. Still, it fills my heart to know someone is doing SOMETHING for these beleaguered people.
May the Goddess bless the Russian Federation.
Derwood, you make a common mistake in concluding that there's no morality simply because different people have different ideas about what is morally valid. You conclude that morality can only be relative, with no definition that is absolute. You don't seem to understand that many people willfully conduct immoral deeds simply because of self-centered objectives, such as lust for money and power. Why would you let such peoples' views of morality confuse you? Don't you understand that morality is simply based on the universality of us human beings? If you cannot understand what that means, you are morally ill.
I don't think you'd be so confused if someone put a knife to your throat in an attempt to steal the land you live on. I guarantee that you'd cry and bawl and plead for someone to help you in preventing this WRONGFULNESS on your person. What would you say then to an observer who tells you, "Morality is relative"?
Izzatso, you make the common mistake of believing what you want to be so, is so. But, it doesn't work that way. History proves time and again that morality is, indeed, relative. It would be nice if all humankind shared a fundamental set of core values, but, they don't. Look anywhere in the world, at any point in history, and you will find moral standards to vary widely. That's not to say certain cultures, for certain time periods, don't share a common set of moral values ...clearly they do. The West today is an example of multiple cultures sharing similar core moral values. But, at the same time, we see other cultures, living at the same time, that don't share those same moral values. Nazi Germany. Radical religious countries. Tribal based countries. Imo, it is self evident morality is, indeed, relative.
Catlin's posts are about empire, and the morality of empire. I am not defending empire morality. My point is, I don't see how one faults empire morality, whilst turning a blind eye to the morality of empire's adversaries. Is it moral for Hamas, and for those Palestinians and Arabs that subscribe to pushing Israel into the sea? Why does Catlin ignore that morality, which is certainly a rather big part of why the conflict exists in the first place. Or, the morality related to killing 6 million Jews 70 years ago, while the world did nothing to stop it, which thus now becomes the morality of never again. It is complicated, and to claim it's a matter of "growing up" and thinking right thoughts is, imo, sophomoric drivel.
Again, I am not defending empire morality. But over simplifying things to assert there is one, true, morality, and it's just a matter of accepting it, is nonsense.
As for the scenario of someone taking my land at knife point....the morality there, imo, is might makes right, so the one with the knife better hope I don't have a shotgun handy.
"[To Caitlin] you never define who or what gets to decide the definition of "ethical". I guess your assumption is you, Catlin, are the sole arbiter of right and wrong, ethical and not ethical, maturity and immaturity, shirking "responsibility" and accepting "responsibility". Or, maybe you believe such definitions are "self evident". They are not.
And
"As for the scenario of someone taking my land at knife point....the morality there, imo, is might makes right, so the one with the knife better hope I don't have a shotgun handy."
As I predicted, you will invoke morality: "kill in self-defense." You will "decide the definition of" what's moral. You will do what you criticize Caitlin for doing. You will become the "sole arbiter of right and wrong." which you condemn Caitlin for. You will act on what is "self-evident" to you.
You will demonstrate the hypocritical nature of your criticism.
You will demonstrate my claim that in such a situation you will be "not so confused" about the relative or absolute nature of morality.
Q.E.D.
Quite the contrary. You are totally correct in your analysis that I become the sole arbitar of morality. Where you have it wrong is that I am not lecturing the guy with the knife, or anyone else, that my position is superior. Might makes right is, unfortunately, the way of humankind thru history. Ask yourself....if Hamas/Hezbollah adherents could press a button and eliminate all Jews forevermore....you think they would press the button? Is that immoral? Wrong ? I doubt they would worry too much about the morality of pressing the button.
Catlin, on the other hand, asserts that hers is an absolute truth, and anyone thinking otherwise is wrong. That is false. So, no, I am not doing what Catlin is doing, nor am I a hypocrite.
The biggest problem these days is that people are taught to accept the "norms" of whatever society, country, or political group they're affiliated with. You can see how as long as you agree with them, they're agreeable, but if you disagree with them, they become VERY disagreeable. It's because most political groups and societies teach tribalism, and that to be accepted, you must hold to the group's accepted norms and narrative. They distill many complicated ideas into binary choices, and depending on your choices, you're either WITH the group, or you're AGAINST the group. There's little to no discussion on the group's accepted norms because that would require that they have critical thinking skills, which is in far too little supply these days.
If you point out that in certain areas, their ideas are diametrically opposed, their heads explode and they either quit responding, or they block or ignore you. Many can spout off different philosophies, because they have the "book knowledge," but when it comes down to explaining how things work in real life, or within historical context, they are clueless. It's the "educated idiot" syndrome that's so prevalent these days. It's very sad indeed. Cheers!
Caitlin is still what I call a "social liberal"
Despite her articles on how much can be a lie, she probably has not figured that out herself.
I strongly suggest she start with Freedom of Association - a strong principle in libertarian liberalism.
A SOCIAL LIBERAL! 😳
My gods , she should be SHOT!
Yes, that’s sarcasm folks.
It’s all part of postmodernism’s claim that essentially nothing is inherently true, it’s only if we “believe” it is and this belief is self-validating. (If a man believes he’s a woman it makes it true.) So when Israel claims they’re only defending themselves and the world calls it genocide, they can dismiss this accusation by accusing others antisemitic. The only reality they will recognize is the one they endorse.
CS Lewis recognized this danger in The Abolition of Man — when universal ethics are ignored, destroyed or manipulated to justify the ends, there are no longer limits on our behavior. He saw this coming in the 1940s and his lecture was a warning about the path Western society was on.
"there are no longer limits on our behavior." - in Dostoyevski the same idea re God.
"Nothing is true" is a literally half-baked vision of reality, which reasonably accepts that
(1) humans are universally, unavoidably, and perpetually imperfect and limited, and that therefore no claim can *permanently* be settled as true (and is a reason democracy, open science, adversarial justice, free speech, etc. exist);
while unreasonably rejecting that
(2) humans universally, unavoidably, and perpetually *must*, nevertheless, anywhere and everywhere make (provisional) judgments about truth in order to live and to act (but, per (1), allow those judgments always to be tested when confronted in good faith).
My understanding is that point (2) was first famously promoted by Protagoras ("Man is the measure..."), while point (1) was later famously (implicitly) recognized by Socrates ("I know that I know nothing"), but (to my knowledge) never compared side-by-side. Postmodernists seem to reject point (2) for some reason, while sneakily inserting their own supposedly unassailable claims, as if those claims are coming from gods, not humans. In our age, it looks as it it's high time to piece back together the two sides of the coin.
It's funny how in every epoch of human reasoning, you always get a bunch of loud, obnoxious doofuses who insist their "claims are unassailable", and will go to any lengths to impose their beliefs on everyone else.
Take Wikipedia for example. Run by the know-it-all doofus Jimbo Wales. Wikipedia: The Internet's Devil Island of unassailable character assassination, CIA propaganda, and lies: https://skepticalaboutskeptics.org/wikipedia-captured-by-skeptics/wikipedia-internets-devils-island/
I'm not so sure Jimmy Wales runs it, it's more likely that The Blob runs him.
I don't believe he's blameless or unaware of what is going on.
I can agree with that. Those are not incompatible with being a captured entity.
In the 1960s, we hippies saw the path that Western society was on and warned you about it and you didn't listen to us, either.
You laughed at us and called us crazy.
And you did and do deserve it fully. As stating something obvious is not enough. Observe so-called "Realist" here.
Also, fucking one's brains out or getting drugged silly is not a protest either. Although makes one familiar with the full catalog of venereal diseases. That must amount to something.
I've always found it morally hollow to accept responsibility for a universe you believe is just an accident, and you are just a flashbulb in eternity. So rationally, it's easy to see why so many people drug out, fade out, drop out ... who come to believe it's all just some random, cruel joke. But there is the mystery of really not knowing if it is actually true. Is the universe just a giant reducible machine? Churning away for no real reason at all - that has no real meaning for a single individual living his/her "flash-in-the-pan" life? So there still may be a glimmer of hope, assuming the mystery remains. Not to mention, the psyche appears to be a tremendous, unexplainable fact of our existence. The psyche also has the peculiar nature of not being reducible to anything else.
I simply do not know why it is deemed so *essential* that human beings have a "why" for their existence. Can't we just recognize that humans can't, and thus don't, know everything? Just push the envelope as far as we can, but then stop beating ourselves up when we hit a/the wall. It's psychologically much healthier to be unpretentious.
I think the 'why' comes in when one must endure a good amount of suffering. Carl Jung wrote somewhere in his autobiography that a good number of his patients who came to him later in life were not suffering from any kind of neurosis, but simply had lost any sense of meaning in their lives.
Also, interesting to note: although Jung is well-known to borrow many of his concepts from Eastern thought, he does deal with the question of suffering in a more "Christian" like approach. Quoting Aniela Jaffe, in her book, "Jung's Last Years":
"Suffering is a challenge, enforcing self-transformation; joy is not, and it does so much more rarely." #p104
My own personal approach to finding meaning in the "mystery" Caitlin writes about, does primarily (at least currently) lie with Jungian psychological theory, which is much broader than many people suspect.
The psyche also has the talent of creating fictional labyrinths, which elevate the psychic holder, and then getting lost inside them.
"You would not find out the boundaries of the soul, even by traveling along every path: so deep a measure does it have." ~Heraclitus
Quote from the preface of June Singer's, 'Boundaries of the Soul'.
You're going to want to watch Dr. Robert Sapolsky talk about gender and the brain.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QScpDGqwsQ
That's part of a longer lecture, "Human Sexual Behavior," which can be found here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOY3QH_jOtE
And that lecture is part of a 25-part lecture series, if you are interested. Sapolsky is brilliant and there is much to learn from him, so I would recommend the full semester course.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNnIGh9g6fA&list=PLqeYp3nxIYpF7dW7qK8OvLsVomHrnYNjD
(There's a couple of bonus lectures in there at the end as well.)
But definitely watch the first one, to understand the science. Gender does not have to do with belief, with or without quotation marks.
(And I explore the nature of this bad-faith use of 'anti-semitic' as an accusation pretty regularly on my Substack. I invite you to take a look.)
Gaza isn’t complicated but it is complicated to see through the bullshit that has been out in place to encourage you to avoid thinking about the horrors of Gaza.
I’ll admit that I compartmentalize horror in just this way. I can’t invest in learning about the Rohingya, Sudan, the Congo, Haiti and Ukraine along with whatever other terrible things are happening in the world. So I throw up my hands and just say “yeah that’s too much to try and figure out”.
You're here, reading Caitlin's insight into the ocean of propaganda we're immersed in. It's a start.
I’ve been here waiting for America to grow the fuck up.
I would like us to grow TF up too. I wonder if brutality and corruption is an inescapable feature if empires though. We might be the innovators when it comes to mass scale violence but we certainly aren’t the first and likely won’t be the last.
Thank you for the kind words - I appreciate it. I thought I had a good grasp on it before October 7th... but to paraphrase Morpheus "I had no idea how deep the rabbit hole goes"!
Saying that it's too painful to contemplate is a lot different from deliberately obfuscating the truth by claiming that it's "complicated."
That’s a fair point. Not being willing to bear witness to more suffering is not the same thing as saying the suffering is “complicated” and using that as justification for letting it continue.
TBF you have been conditioned by the propaganda system your whole life. Its hard to learn where the edges of the illusions are. I learned how to do it very early in life, that's not a boast, that's a lament of being cursed. Its not a trusting or happy life.
“It’s hard to learn where the edges of the illusion are”
I am stealing that line just fyi! It perfectly explains what almost all of our issues are within the system.
I would agree that it isn’t a happy or trusting life. I am conflicted in the sense that I want my kids to live in the illusion for as long as possible for them to grow into a healthy person. It’s like they need to grow up in the dark for a long period with glimmers of light before they see the whole thing.
Hi Ela... I could be wrong but I am getting the impression that there is a combative thing going on between us here... there doesn't need to be.
Yes I am Arab. I am aware of my country's history. I am also an American who has grown up with decades of propaganda. I became aware of the difference between American propaganda and reality shortly after 9/11. The point I am trying to make is that it is very hard to break through that propaganda. I broke through it because of my family and my experience living in the Arab world. I can sympathetically understand why someone who doesn't know any Arabs outside of what they see on the News and in Hollywood would struggle with the idea that all of western media is creating a completely false narrative.
To use the Matrix analogy - I can get frustrated with the blue pills but I also understand that most people are not ready for the red pill of reality...
You may not have a miscommunication problem with Westerners, but Westerners have a severe problem with understanding themselves and therefore others.
They (we) are ignorant of how the world works and has worked, and what part their "civilization" has played in all of it.
It takes a great effort to break through the layers of myths and lies to arrive at an understanding and there are many painful episodes to conquer along the way.
Trust me that I know.
Susan - nicely said. We don’t understand ourselves or our place in the world at all.
I’m a high school teacher and I am convinced that we are deliberately teaching a boring, abstract and nearly pointless things specifically so that the majority of our children become incurious and allow the elites to continue to do whatever they want. We’ll be content to not question too much as long as we can afford our Netflix subscriptions.
"They (we) are ignorant of how the world works and has worked, and what part their 'civilization' has played in all of it."
Susan, you make a profound statement, simply because you acknowledge the proper noun, "we." And Selim echoes the same truth.
In the same way, all those who identify with Judaism must say to themselves and to fellow Jews, "We are committing genocide." Only then will Judaism wake up to what the Germans woke up to just before the end of WWII. Only then will Jews fix their tribal thinking and behavior. Only the Jews can fix Judaism.
The same thing of course applies to all Americans.
Nicely stated. But I think if we have been exposed to a massive dose of propaganda then both American and Israeli Jews have been exposed to 1000x greater propaganda.
I worked at a Jewish school and talk to my former colleagues. Brilliant people. Rabbis with phds who could teach college but choose to teach high school.
Despite all of their intellectual gifts they are unwilling or unable to see or notice the suffering of anyone who isn’t them without immediately jumping to “yes but what about…” and returning to their own victimhood.
I can see what you mean that westerners are babied. I would agree with that statement.
This isn’t an excuse so much as my best attempt at an explanation.
We have been fed a lifelong diet of stories that tell us that we are the shining light of goodness and that if it weren’t for us the world would descend into chaos and anarchy.
Most people don’t want to hear a different story so they will do anything possible to ignore or avoid a story that is closer to the truth.
The fact that I know as much as I do is an accident of birth.
If I wasn’t born to an Arab family. If I hadn’t spent time living in the Arab world. If I hadn’t seen Al Jazeera and the murder of Mohammad Durrah in 2002 (my apologies if I misspelled his name). If I hadn’t developed enough curiosity to continue my personal education beyond what my bachelors degree offered me… if those things hadn’t been in my life I would continue to be ignorant and would probably support Israel and be ashamed of my heritage.
My choices are to be angry at everyone I personally know for not knowing as much as me or doing my best to enlighten people to the extent that they want to be enlightened.
To continue Caitlin’s analogy- I won’t try and force someone to “take the red pill”
As far as the collective history goes- I can’t argue with you - the west has had a horrible history. Most Americans never come across a single bit of it - we are so caught up in our “bread and circuses” to bother learning a bit of our violent history.
Not an excuse just an explanation. I can understand why people would choose not to be satisfied with the explanation.
"My choices are to be angry at everyone I personally know for not knowing as much as me or doing my best to enlighten people to the extent that they want to be enlightened."
Selim, the same is true for me. I'm astonished at the ease by which family members condemn me for saying the truth about Israel, Zionism, and Jews. I have a Jewish brother-in-law, who messaged me after I sent out a description of what's going on:
"If you send me one more e-mail for any reason, ever, I will report you to Google to be investigated and you will never be allowed in my house again, ever."
Of course, I have to maintain peace in the family. It's not easy.
Izzatso - I do feel your pain. My wife is Jewish and she is unable to talk about this stuff without becoming massively defensive. I suspect she knows that Israel is committing war crimes but she can’t bring herself to say it out loud.
I’m sorry that you have such a difficult family challenge. Maintaining family peace is important.
I have decided that my strategy is to keep quiet with family unless they bring up something that is factually wrong. I try and ask them “what if that weren’t true? How would that change your opinion?”
I have asked “would you be ok if the shoe was reversed? Would you be ok with Palestinians driving over Israeli graves?”
Some people admit that it wouldn’t change their opinion. Then I stop the conversation.
In fairness I do think a lot of Jews have been told that the world is against them so any push back feels like an attack. I think our brains can’t distinguish between an attack on our identity and an actual attack.
That quirk in our brain architecture has been ruthlessly exploited by governments, advertisers and narcissists for centuries.
"What can be hard is opening your mind to the possibility that everything you’ve been told about the world is a lie,"
That people MUST ASSOCIATE WITH THE STATE / EMPIRE ?
Absolutely a lie ----- despite the PROPAGANDA it is a sign of civilization :)
not just 'that people must associate with the state/ empire', but everything you've been told about the world.
"People act like they’re being humble about their own intellect and understanding, but really they’re just lying and psychologically compartmentalizing away from self-evident reality. It’s not humility, it’s just another kind of dishonesty."
Really cuts to the core there. Well put.
yes!
thank you.
Yeah, hamas is going to lead the Palestinians into thriving. Wait, they already didn't... I am not a suporter if Israel's disproportionate response, but guess what not acknowledging complexity gets you.... shitty solutions. You are the one who sounds like a child who can only read 150 words before your brain gets tired.
That is one of the most content-free things I’ve ever read. Green Eggs and Ham is more thought provoking than this weightless blob of words.
You planning on doing an article on slavery in Sudan and Northern Africa - slavery of young girls ? Let me know when you do 👍🏻
Quite the runs you're having. What did you eat?
Hurry up though. Your turn to be purged is quickly approaching.
Translation- gfys rectum faced pygmie
Здохни падла тупорылая
Your Russian is rusty. How about your supposedly native Hebrew, hasbara jerk?
My Russian is rusty u dim пизда?
I don’t speak Hebrew, degenerate though I wish I did ,
I speak fluent Farsi and a few other languages , including English which you seem to be struggling with
Так ты, подонок, предатель иранского народа? Пидорок гнойный? Ну тогда не волнуйся, приберут тебя к рукам, даже потосковать как следует не успеешь.
Dumb as brick aren’t you ?
Iranian Revolution backed by your fucking puppet president - destroyed the country anyone with any intelligence left !
Dumb trash like you wouldn’t know what Iranian people stand for! Pathetic stupid half witted moron is what you are !