I have felt this way fo a long time. I agree with you whole heartedly and feel that creating the state of Israel in 1948 was a grave error by world powers.
1) “There’s no valid reason to believe some Jewish guy in New York City even has any meaningful lineage connecting him to that land more strongly than any random Muslim in Turkey or wherever, and even if there was, it would still be absurd to cite ancient history as the basis for a territorial claim.”
Gee, Caitlin, isn’t the emotional tug of the theme music from “Exodus” enough to convince you otherwise...?
2) “So the original source for the grievance is clearly the artificial creation of an ethnonationalist state in the mid-20th century, and the push by Zionists and western imperialists to make it happen.”
Fifteen nations comprised UNSCOP (UN Special Committee on Palestine), only one of which, Iran, had an inkling of the issues surrounding Palestine. Gee, I wonder who arranged for the membership of that group? Somehow, through the powers of higher math, this committee figured that giving 56% of the land – and the better land at that – to the smaller, one-third Jewish population at the time, and 44% to the two-thirds larger Arab population, was an equitable solution. Mathematicians to this day still are perplexed as to how the underlying postulate yielded the solution that it did, evidently it is lost to history, like the formula for Greek fire.
3) Just because speaking with a British accent sounds all up-and-up and proper doesn’t excuse the fact that it was the f***ing British who were, and still are, responsible for this mess, consistent with their “legacy of violence” and exploitation throughout the world (see Caroline Elkins’ “Legacy of Violence: A History of the British Empire.”
4) “This means that creating Israel was a mistake. A mistake that needs to be corrected… The Israel experiment has been tried, and it has failed. It is time to try something else.”
I once posited that if it should ever come about, the only chance for peace and a fractionally just recompense for Palestine would require the following:
• The erasure of all geographic boundaries of the faux “state” of Israel, 1967, 1973, Eretz, Ersatz, whatever, and all land reverted to its rightful owners, the Palestinians.
• The dismantlement of the state of Israel not only for the sake of the Palestinians and other peoples in the region, but for humankind as a whole.
• That all its assets be transferred to the Palestinians.
• That 75% of all Israelis personal assets be transferred to the Palestinians people.
• That the Israelis/Zionists be compelled to develop (using their own money, not US aid) a site encompassing the entirety of their now-former capital of Tel Aviv to establish, akin to "The Memorial to the Murdered Jews of Europe" in Berlin, "The Memorial to the Murdered, Maimed, Orphaned, Displaced, and Dehumanized People of Palestine."
• That the equivalent of 5% of the present population of Palestine of present Jews in Israel be allowed to remain as full-rights citizens of the newly reconstituted state of Palestine, all others required to apply for citizenship, otherwise to emigrate elsewhere within one year.
I still maintain this is the only conceivable, best approximation of justice, redress for the historical stain on the human record that is the legacy* of Zionism and Israel, and the unfathomable harm done the Palestinian people.
*Along with its complacent defecation on all that is decent and human in civilized life, the further repugnant legacy of Zionism and Israel is the diminishment to the point of near oblivion of any sense of justice and hope for the rest of us; it is of nihilism, that nothing else matters in life – be it tangible or symbolic, real or imagined, valued or banal – except itself. It is the galactic and ironic opposite of the familiar toast “L’chaim!” “To life!”
The brave young Israelis who have served prison sentences rather than serve in the IDF should have first option on being part of that 5% of Jews allowed to stay in Palestine.
I have read of a young Jew who emigrated to Israel. As part of the naturalization process they gave him a Hebrew document which he signed. It turned out he had just volunteered for the army. After a period of service/enslavement he told them a relative had died and he needed leave. He deserted and returned home.
I personally think that for any Israeli 18-year-old to do this requires so much fortitude and integrity that most of us could hardly comprehend it. I think to a degree you can’t really even blame 18-year-olds for not having the immense courage to do it. To even be in a position to be aware enough, you would have needed a lot of adults around you during your childhood who endorsed it.
I agree, it is extraordinarily courageous. It's a reason that I have an automatic payment set up to the Refuser Solidarity Network every month. An added bonus is their newsletter that helps to remind me that there are some very fine people among Israelis. Maybe not many, but some.
While I like - and can see reason in - your reparation ideas, the latter proposal that much of the current 'Israeli' population should emigrate sends shivers up my spine. Have you ever met an 'Israeli' ? You wouldn't want one moving to a neighbourhood near you, that's for sure.
so true ! i was in israel around 40 years ago, it was not a happy place even then. hardly any israelis have a ready smile for people, unlike the palestinian people, who are warm and welcoming.
Hmmm, you raise a point... I don't think I ever have met one, my only direct sense comes from watching Abby Martin interviewing young Israelis on their attitudes towards Palestinians some years ago; news footage of an Israeli settler claiming Palestinian property as his; news footage covering those hooligans after the soccer match in Denmark, was it?; and of course Netanyahu and assorted ("a sordid"?) other Israeli government officials on t.v. Disgust and obnoxiousness are common denominators throughout. No, certainly wouldn't want one in the neighborhood.
I guess your point can be taken as they've already done so much harm in the region in which they find themselves, why let 'em spread? Maybe then the answer may be to do to them what they did to the Gazans, put 'em behind a wall, monitor them, control what goes in, what goes out, 'til they die. I suppose justice in that as well.
Emotions are high and the darkness inside me wants to see every last one of them punished. But there are innocent Israelis too...a few...and a precious few advocating for Palestine. Then there are others who are just brainwashed and deluded but not bad to the bone. I can't conscionably wish them dead. Treating them like Gazans makes us as bad as them. I don't want them to do that to me.
I have met many Israelis travelling. They are loud, selfish, arrogant, aggressive and thoroughly unpleasant to be around. Not all, of course, but the majority. Nowadays I avoid anywhere they are likely to be. If a bunch of them came to live near me I'd have to move. I don't know what's to be done with them that won't cause more problems down the line, but I feel it must start with reeducation. Using facts!
The ones being tourists have been brought up from birth to believe they are god's chosen brats, the world belongs to them and that all other humans are lesser humans or animals.
During their time in the IDF they have been given the power of god to kill children, men, women and to destroy without restraint, with not only complete immunity, but even having criticism of their actions made illegal or impossible in all western countries.
That's one helluva power for a teenager to have. They have not been socialized to exist the worldwide community of adults.
Excellent point. I once read an 19 year old in the army during Vietnam that said he was amazed that at his age and low rank he had been given the power of life or death.
I understand your concern over harming the innocents. And you're right, there are very few of them. Frankly, I'm too tired and too disgusted to devise a scheme to separate them from the rest at the moment. Other than to say they should have left long ago themselves, there is no redeeming the illegitimate state.
As to reeducation, the facts, I don't see that working, because the indoctrination they get from infancy through adulthood is too pervasive, too reinforced to undo. This is a bunch that has been taught to interpret everything in terms of Israel. I mean, if an Israeli grade school teacher were to ask her charges what 2 + 2 equals, and little Aaron or Rachel energetically raised his or her hand and shouted out, "I know, I know, 2 + 2 = Israel!" the teacher then says, "Very good, you learned your lesson well!" as she stuck a little star of David sticker on his/her forehead.
Yes I agree...but while we're talking in the wildly hypothetical, I was meaning their young should be educated from birth, to prevent this happening with the next generation. There's no hope for anyone over the age of 7.
I agree but the civilians - and I am one - don't deserve to suffer for our despised governmental policies, especially the ones that occurred before we were born.
Send them to space. They'd like that, being techy an' all.
It's a different kind, though. I don't often meet this kind of American as they tend to stay in high-end places whereas the ex-IOF crowd travel in large groups and take over budget hostels, outnumbering the independent travellers looking for some peace. They are so obnoxious in groups that many hostels in Latin America have (or had, 15/20 years ago) signs on the door, No Israelis
That's tough. Look what the Palestinians have had to go through. The residents of countries that support the demonic entity will have to eat a shit sandwich because we haven't done a thing for justice.
What country in its right mind would accept 8,000,000 Israelis the majority of whom appear to be clinical psychopaths? These people are Nazis and the only way to expunge that is by using the same formula as the Nuremburg trials.
As James Baldwin said in 1965 "The reason Americans cannot face their history is that the history indicts their identity." And you cannot ask someone to accept the evidence that destroys who they think they are because no one likes their identity - that which defines them at the inner core - indicted.
Same thing here: jews/zionists cannot face their history and accept the evidence in front of their eyes because it destroys who they think they are. This is why so many engage in these mental gymnastics of trying to separate judaism from zionism, like the latter just erupted ex nihilo when in reality Israel’s Declaration of Independence literally defines it as a Jewish state, reborn on ancestral land after 2,000 years of exile, pogroms...
I am an atheist so all these references to fiction are comical to me. But for those who believe in this nonsense, zionism was created by god himself. As it says in Zachariah 8:3 “So said the Lord: I will return to Zion, and I will dwell in the midst of Jerusalem; and Jerusalem shall be called the city of truth, and the mount of the Lord of Hosts [shall be called] the holy mountain.”
Zionism wasn’t a colonial startup; it was a rescue mission. Herzl and company didn’t invent the idea, they revived it, drawing from scripture. This is why over 80% of jews not only support Israel but see it as an integral part of their IDENTITY.
You can never convince them otherwise because you can never negotiate with someone's identity and in this case the need to believe that their cause is righteous and that their presence in those parts and the need to expand is ordained by god.
Well, according to Rabbi Beck jews should never have had a state just for jews, nor should they be in Palestine because it belongs to Palestinians, and they have no right to remain in any land at all because God decreed that they be homeless (without a homeland), they should not have moved into the holy land, until the messiah, the real one, has returned when we will all be united in God. Rabbi Beck also claims that zionism is moving jews away from God, that only the Jewish religion is moving away from God, because of zionism. Personally I think evangelicals are moving people away from God and the replacement is money and accumulation of things, and that us costing thus planet big time because we have become a throwaway society.
The messiah will nit be coming with sword in hand to fight a war. His roll is to bring peace to all, which shows again that israel is definitely a zionist concept to move jews away from their God. When you look back at who forced the nazis to imprison jews in camps then to exterminate them
Oh, and something we felt: netanyahu IS Amalek. Again, Amalek is not a place(like israel is not meant to be a place). Amalek is a concept, a personality, the inner person. We knew deep down Netanyahu is evil, now we have the word of a Rabbi. When this killing spree ends, there will be no israel, only Palestine ruled by Palestinians with Palestinian government, and definitely no israel anywhere.
I have listened to several Rabbis and Jewish scholars saying the same thing. That to have a dedicated homeland is against the very foundations of Judaism.
Personally I don't give a 💩 about any religion. But whatever people need - as long as it doesn't impinge on anyone else's needs. I care only about justice. What it does, though, is show their arguments to be invalid. They don't have a leg to stand on either way.
who gives a shit what some random rabbi says? He's just trying to absolve himself from an ugly situation by pretending zionism just erupted out of nowhere. Priests in any religion are like supreme court justices: interpreting the written word to fit their agenda. The more important thing is to look at the actions. How many synagogues have condemned the genocide in any meaningful way? The few dissenting voices are irrelevant when looking at the bigger picture...
The Jews rejected Jesus because he didn't take up his sword and smite his enemies as they had expected. The evangelical Christians were smarter: they changed god into a prosperity deity, and conveniently forgot about Jesus, peace, love and humility.
Well put Ginnie, I follow Avigail Abarbanel on Substack, and can highly recommended her work. She is a fearless ex Israeli who renounced her citizenship. She understands the psychology (she’s a practicing psychotherapist) of the state explicitly, at quite some personal cost she continues her educational writing. This piece is particularly strong when laying those cards on the table.
If you can't negotiate with that belief then you must impose alongside it the belief that others, too, have equal 'god given' rights to the land.
Whether or not their ancestors lived in the vicinity in biblical times, they were not the only ones there. It's completely nonsensical to claim they were. Perhaps rationality and history should be taught from an early age instead of just hateful propaganda
the "jew" messiah the one whom netanyahu will place the sceptre of power into the hands of, that in basic terms is
a) moschiach ben david, which in Islam= "false prophet/false Jesus), which is in the common tongue "anti- the -christ"
whereas the messiah of the gentiles is
b) mosciach ben joseph, which in Islam is "prophet Jesus", common tongue "Jesus Christ"
fundamental zio christians who are ignorant believe that a) is "Jesus" or 2nd coming...
the less ignorant zio christians know it s the "anti-christ" yet view its arrival as forcing the 2nd coming/return of Jesus
the concept of counter messiahs controlling and diverting Human emotion in powerful ways (egregores) is precisely the fake narrative pushed within the "matrix" hypothesis, its old testament sorcery re-cooked for a modern audience.
the "trick" is to see without being drawn emotionally or spiritually, easier written than done
another common take/reveal on this is the "I pet goat ii" , the Islamic decodes are very good, one I regularly link has been I think taken down, but try on way back if interested:
when comprehended and added to the "noahide" rollout (initially in america but intended globally) and you begin to see a two pronged sustained attack on Humanity that encompasses resource slavery in the "real world" with religious slavery in the "spiritual realm"
not quite what we've been told, it was never a "new world order" its always been intended as a "jew world order"
the polarity of hate by many yet the adoration of others re the illegal state of "isreal" is mechanism to create a psychic maelstrom....
And just like their father the devil, they twist scripture that they pick from to fit their narrative.
Those of us with 1/2 a brain can see that basic chronology puts Zionism in its grave where it belongs. Just like God did in 70 ad when they rejected His Son. If you follow the chronology of the Bible, the New Testament puts the Old Testament to death where it belongs. Biblical Judaism was ended by God Himself, what you see today is “rabbinic” Judaism which is satanic.
”having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.“
Colossians 2:14 NKJV
”In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.“
Hebrews 8:13 NKJV
”For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law.“
Israel does not have universally agreed-upon borders with the United Nations. Never has done. Not even in the 1947 partition motion. This is because Israel has a Plan Dalet in which they pursue Eretz Yisrael. The Greater Israel whereby they keep extending the undeclared border of Israel to, eventually, include the rest of the world.
Turn it around, fool! It is Israel that is attacking and/or occupying Iran, Syria, and Lebanon right now, continuing the genocide in Gaza and ethnic cleansing in the West Bank. The nutcases running Israel think their borders are the Nike and Euphrates. Caitlin is absolutely right about the genesis of the conflict. Read it again.
If Iran, Hezbollah and Hamas are not the good guys, right, then the West and the Allies who invaded Europe on the side of the French, Polish Resistance and others occupied by Germany were not the good guys either? That is nonsensical.
Iran supports the Palestinian and Lebanese Resistance movements in the same way we supported the Resistance movements in Europe against German occupation. Exactly the same thing except for Muslim haters.
The raping and killing, documented since 1947, has been done by Jews in Palestine not by Muslims.
You said: Hamas and the IRGC rape and murder their own people.
NO EVIDENCE FOR THAT CLAIM FROM ISRAEL BUT HEAPS OF EVIDENCE DOCUMENTED FOR 78 YEARS THAT ISRAELIS RAPE AND MURDER NON-JEWS AND EVEN RAPE AND MURDER THEIR OWN PEOPLE IF THEY OPPOSE ZIONISM.
You said: They will sacrifice every last citizen of Gaza and Iran for their own purposes.
Yes, Israeli policy totally.
You said: The Ayatollah told every man in Iran they can have sex with babies.
Only an imbecile would believe such a stupid lie. Get help.
You said. Hamas and IRGC murder you for resisting their rule.
Not a shred of evidence for that but lots for Israel murdering anyone who resists their colonial military rule.
You said: IRGC is still hanging more people that were "caught" protesting in January.
Probably. There were a lot of Mossad/CIA saboteurs, traitors who were arrested.
You said: IRGC charges parents for the bullets used to kill their family.
Wow, it takes an impressive level of idiot to believe that.
You said: You are a coward and an extremist for ignoring this.
Nah, I deal in facts, cowards and extremists lie as you do and believe childish propaganda.
You said: I bet you're fine with the the West going down to 40% European?
You might like to prove that idiot claim. For what it is worth there is no European, 40% or otherwise as people. There are no races, just the human race. We are all descended from the same ancestors.
WHAT IS EUROPEAN BY THE WAY? Spaniards, Russians, Croatians, Greeks, French are all very, very, very different but all in Europe.
You said: Why can't Palestine? It's for the good of all isn't it?
Why can't Palestine what? Be European? Because it is not in Europe.
"Hamas and their daddies the IRGC rape and kill their own people"
Straight outta "Israeli/U.S. propaganda 101".
See Hannibal Directive on Oct 7, 2023.
You do realize Hamas and Hezbollah were formed to defend against 80+ years of constant Israeli supremacism, racism, lies, propaganda, apartheid, blockades, land theft, attacks, terrorism, murder, and genocide. You do realize Israel was founded by Eastern European terrorist gangs, and they definitely were never "the good guys"... as these racist terrorist Israelis of today so definitively demonstrate...
what You are maybe trying to say is that what too few know:
"hamas is simply a covert division of the idf"
take 7 yr old Palestinian kids, lock them in solitary (sometimes for as much as 10 years), abuse them physically, mentally, emotionally... and more.
train them to appear one way, be another..
then when ready allow them to "escape" or release them, once back in the fold they dont even know what lingers in them...
this is fact, not fiction
the "isreali" methodology is that of the truly most depraved sub-humans that draw breath...
for further insight its also pertinent to know how "isreal" utilised ai-video architecture to create false footage for supply to the western media, its exposed here:
pertinent because they will attempt to use this fake evidence methodology to convict, then execute "gentiles" if they manage to push further the "noahide court framework"
ambivalence or ineptitude, ignorance or laziness are not excuses when failing to realise that demons in human skins walk among us... "they live"
The borders were illegal and the plan for the sickraelis was always ALL OF PALESTINE, ALL OF LEBANON, ALL OF SYRIA, ALL OF JORDAN, ALL OF IRAQ AND SLABS OF SAUDI ARABIA, EGYPT AND IRAN.
And sorry mate, the shitraelis have a policy that non-Jews are subhuman and must be exterminated which is 99.9% of Palestinians and most people in the region. Doncha think if some nutjob occupied the US with that sort of sicko plan that Americans and other Christians would fight the bastards to the death?
All that you’re saying about “Islam” can absolutely be applied to “Israel”, no? It’s not like the IOF have not been raping and killing people all these years, long before October 7 and absolutely supported by their “citizens”. And who is it that’s been illegally invading land left right and centre now and even is public enough declare their intent to invade more for “Greater Israel”? So what’s the difference? That they’re white? But I thought they’re from “Middle East”, they can’t be white then can they? Oh because they’re only defending themselves and absolutely didn’t do anything to provoke the attacks? Like years of randomly detaining civilians and killing children and raping detainees and using illegal phosphorus and destroying schools, hospitals, mosques and churches, for example? Let’s count how many countries “Christians” have and see how many are willing to give it up for poor little Israel eh? If you say you’re not worried about the Israelis, then maybe you should wake the hell up
Oh FFS, how about dealing in facts. All religions take from others. Jews took a lot from the ancient Egyptian religion of the great Mother Isis, Christians took a lot from Judaism and Islam took a lot from Christianity and so, by default, Jews.
Islam is up to nothing from what any sane adult can see and the facts suggest so wherever you are living it is a weird kinda place mate.
You’re equating what Israel is doing now with what the Muslims are doing eh? Fascinating. This say more about you than you know. I’ve never seen a Muslim degrading Jesus or any religious figures but man, there’s no love like a Judeo-Christian hate. Have a good life figuring out who the bad guys are.
They (Zionists) have already taken control of government and media. They have brainwashed you into thinking Muslim= bad. 'islam' is not up to' anything. And you do realise there are Christians and atheists being slaughtered in Palestine also? Israelis don't care about religion. It's about land, and pure hatred of 'the other' that you seem to share.
You'd just love a bunch of israelis living next door to you. They're such nice people 🤣
The UN had and has no legal right to partition any country on earth. Neither did the League of Nations or Lord Balfour.
In fact the UN did not partition Palestine but made a recommendation which the Zionists and Jews rendered null and void in 1947 by ignoring the condition that the Palestinians be left to live in peace in what was proposed would remain of their country, 47%.
Ziojewraelis did not abide by the original recommendation, nor the demand they leave the Palestinians in peace so whatever one might argue in a court of law, the UN Mandate recommendation could never stand.
As to your comment about Islam, this is not about religion, this is about the right of the Palestinian people to justice and freedom in their homeland.
And, hate to break it to you, but there is no other Muslim majority State which functions remotely like Israel in its supremacist, genocidal, fascist, apartheid nature. NOT ONE.
The ones invading, murdering, raping, torturing, stealing, destroying for the past half century and more are Jews and Christians. The Muslims are benign by comparison.
PALESTINE BELONGS ONLY TO THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE, ALL OF IT AND BELONGS TO NO RELIGION.
The UN had and has no legal right to partition any country on earth. Neither did the League of Nations or Lord Balfour.
In fact the UN did not partition Palestine but made a recommendation which the Zionists and Jews rendered null and void in 1947 by ignoring the condition that the Palestinians be left to live in peace in what was proposed would remain of their country, 47%.
Ziojewraelis did not abide by the original recommendation, nor the demand they leave the Palestinians in peace so whatever one might argue in a court of law, the UN Mandate recommendation could never stand.
As to your comment about Islam, this is not about religion, this is about the right of the Palestinian people to justice and freedom in their homeland.
And, hate to break it to you, but there is no other Muslim majority State which functions remotely like Israel in its supremacist, genocidal, fascist, apartheid nature. NOT ONE.
The ones invading, murdering, raping, torturing, stealing, destroying for the past half century and more are Jews and Christians. The Muslims are benign by comparison.
PALESTINE BELONGS ONLY TO THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE, ALL OF IT AND BELONGS TO NO RELIGION.
Zionist arguments all boil down to might is right.
Except when Jews are victims. Then Muh Victim Status Trumps Everything, Muh Victim Status Is More Special Tha Yours, Muh Victim Status Is Extra Special.
And you wonder why I have a problem with humans who insist that "the personal is political". Because it only applies to Me And Mine As Victims.
Colonization has never worked for anyone, especially not for indigenous people. Every colonized country involved murder and stealing. Zionism makes colonization even worse. Zionists may think they are superior beings, but as we watch what they are doing, we see that they are cruel with no morals at all. Israel is showing us that they will stop at nothing to get what they have decided is theirs. Zionism and Israel are making the entire world unsafe for everyone, especially for Jews.
Patently untrue. The Britons hated the Romans but they certain benefited. Stone-age nomadic hunter gatherers in Australia benefited by joining the then modern world and working to create one of the best countries on the planet and a lot of them knew it and wanted to assimilate just as many Britons wanted to take what Romans offered.
Everyone has colonised and been colonised. The peoples who came to be called Aborigins in Australia were colonisers, arriving in different waves of invasion and migration. As stone-age peoples they killed those they found in their way apart from a few useful females.
The British gave those aboriginal peoples citizenship and worked to help them join the then modern world, which most did, and to work towards creating a modern nation, which most did.
Does it make you feel better to pretend that European colonisation improved the lives of indigenous Australians? You sound like someone from a really racist past generation. “Stone Age” - really? The oldest continuous culture on earth who were doing just fine until white colonists (who literally starved in a strange country they had no respect for) came along.
The imported diseases that wiped out entire populations, the massacres we never learned about in school, the stolen generations, the enslavement, the destruction of culture and country. Aboriginal people were not granted Australian citizenship until 1948 despite serving in our wars (how nice of us to grant them rights to their own bloody country). You think Aboriginal people today live well? No discrimination, no disadvantage? Your comment is quite ignorant and shameful.
They raped young girls promised to them as babies , kept women as chattels, lived by complete superstition. The lives of Aboriginal women and girl kids have improved immeasurably since Europeans as they are no longer expected to be married off as small children and then raped and beaten, to spend their miserable lives looking for food when not being raped. Aboriginal men’s lot has changed for the worse, as they can no longer legally rape their child brides or legally beat or kill their multiple wives …..
So you think Australians should be living stone-age with no modern medicine and still practising infanticide and cannibalism to survive.
Every culture on earth is the same as the next in terms of age because we all have the same human ancestors.
all cultures change. For aboriginal culture to be continuous all of them would be living stone-age, practising infanticide and cannibalism with women as slaves and with no blankets, clothes, iron or housing. Get real.
Do some friggin research, Your ignorance is appalling.
And for FFS aborigines had citizenship by 1800. They may not have known it but they did. that is a matter of record.
That's quite different from what I've heard since living in Australia for some fifty years and what the Australian aborigines have told me. The history of the Australian aborigine goes back at least 40,000 years or more. I have never heard anything about them killing people they came across here because there were none.
Can you point out where you got this information from, be ause I cannot find it.
Westerners always cling to technological advances as a sign of civilizational superiority...
So comforting to know that the burgeoning global climate hell and our potential nuclear annihilation at the hands of dick-waving jingoist psychopaths has been brought to us by the most righteous of peoples. 🙏
Where have you met someone who is 100% aboriginal living a stone-age hunter gatherer life? Nowhere. So you have met no aborigines. You have met Australians with aboriginal ancestry, many of whom believe things about the past which are not true. I suggest you study the facts.
The estimated time-frame for humans in Australia, thanks to Western science is around 40,000 to 50,000 years. Whether any of those here when the British arrived in 1788 we do not know.
When you say no-one was here how do you reach that conclusion? When the first Homo Sapiens arrived there probably were none but subsequent waves of invasion, migration and colonisation would have found many different peoples.
The aborigines of Tasmania were negroid and were believed to be some of the earliest, driven south by new invaders while the landbridge to Tasmania still existed. The peoples of Queensland and NT are largely derived from New Guinea invaders and colonists. Around 4000 years ago we had an invasion of Indians, from southern India, who brought their native dog which became the dingo. You seem to assume a bunch of humans arrived 40,000 years ago and that was it.
Nature abhors inbreeding and if others had not arrived that first mob would have died out in a thousand years.
I am sure you have not heard about the violence which is why you need to study the facts. Start reading everything from 1788 onwards and then get back to me. Material from about the 1960's is more opinion than fact but still useful to provide balance to the facts.
Read books and records and most of which you will not find googling. Anthropologists, historians, botanists, explorers, settlers, police wrote millions of words about what they saw and hear from 1788 onwards. The book by David Collins, An Account of the English Colony in New South Wales is a good place to start. He arrived in 1788 and stayed for 17 years.
Native Tribes of South Australia also worthwhile. Both can be found online or bought in reprint form.
Aboriginal peoples were stone age hunter gatherers. Study those cultures around the world to gain perspective. All humans once lived that way.
Actually, the British, killed the aborigines just like any other colonisers did elsewhere. That record has not been forgotten. They also divided families, taking children away to teach them how to be servants of the white colonisers. Odd thing is, the original inhabitants always find the lost children even after generations have passed.
Actually they did not. Aborigines were citizens and murder was murder. Read the records.
They did not divide fully aboriginal families because they tried to maintain culture. I think that was wrong. They took kids at risk, aboriginal or non-aboriginal into care for the same reasons. Part aboriginal kids were usually killed at birth and if not, often neglected and abused.
As to becoming servants, in the times, all poor girls, with or without aboriginal ancestry were trained as servants.
God I despair of the ignorance of people on this issue.
They aren't even aware of the socioeconomics of pre-microwave, pre-laundromat times. I can't even imagine what image they have in their minds of these times or any times including our own. They should probably be required to describe it, the way young children describe the neverending story inside their heads. They will have to include how they think it came about that the vast majority of the world ended up holding books in their scurvyless hands, blabbering on about political rights that someone other than they elucidated.
"Everyone has colonised and been colonised. The peoples who came to be called Aborigins in Australia were colonisers, arriving in different waves of invasion and migration. As stone-age peoples they killed those they found in their way apart from a few useful females."
You could call a tribe that moves into a humanless space colonizers but I don't accept that. There was a time that all land outside of Africa had no humans whatsoever. The Aborigins clearly came from Africa. Even Malaysia still has the Orang Asli (Original Men), a few natives that appear as African as could be and live in the central jungle.
The Neanderthals and so forth complicate matters but I'm going to ignore that.
The first humans to arrive were colonisers but the place was empty. The later waves involved killing those they found. That is what stone-age people did.
There is no group called Westerners which says, Their lives are so much better now.
What we do know is most humans want the benefits of the modern world - secure food, shelter, tap water in the home, flushing toilets, showers, education etc.
Why would aboriginal peoples be any different? Are you saying they are less than human?
Most Australians with aboriginal ancestry are doing the same as all other Australians with the same lives, health and outcomes. That is so much better than hand to mouth stone-age living.
The few who struggle, a small minority, are those who because of do-gooders are the least assimilated into the modern world and remain trapped in violent, primitive cultures in violent, primitive communities which doom and damn them and their children.
The idea that there was something magical about stone-age culture, which all humans once lived is not simply deranged it is cruel. Every child deserves a future and to be fed, protected and cared for not neglected, wandering the streets through the night, with booze-and drug-addled parents and adults of no help to them. Aboriginal communities are a deep and abiding tragedy. Sure, those who maintain them mean well - let's preserve their culture, except they live like moths pinned to a board with modern homes, which get trashed, supermarkets which are expensive, cars, mobile phones, television sets, electricity, booze and no hope and no future.
I have been to some of these places and you just want to weep. Particularly for the children. They still try to educate them with teachers brought in whose accommodation and schoolrooms are surrounded by razor wire because of the violence.
Meanwhile, the vast majority of Australians with aboriginal ancestry are doing fine. At around 3% of the population they are represented at 12% in State and Federal Parliaments. And most of them are in mixed marriages and most have been for generations. Australians have been intermarrying with aboriginal peoples for more than two centuries. And that is making everyone's lives better.
Mostly it was aboriginal women with European men but even some very brave European women married aboriginal men in the 19th century. At her side he joined the modern world and good on them. We have photos of such couples.
So ask yourself if you want to return to stone-age nomadic hunter-gathering with no modern medicine, dentistry, facilities, technology, equipment and if you do, off you go. You will not find anyone with aboriginal ancestry doing it if you go to tribal lands. They want, demand and get modern homes, utilities, cars and all the trappings. Most of which end up trashed, tragically, along with their lives and their children.
The successful ones are living in your suburb and others in the modern world.
That is a modern fabrication. Yes, colonisation by anyone often involves conflict. Ask the British, they were colonised violently a dozen times. They got over it.
By the time the British got to Australia with a lot of experience with less developed peoples they were for the times, more civilized than many. Fortunate for aborigines because otherwise it would have been the French, Portugese, Spanish, Chinese, Polynesians or someone else.
The British never had a policy of genocide but instead wanted to do what we spend millions today trying to do, helping those in less developed places join the modern world. How was that wrong in 1788 and right in 2026.
I have lived in India and four African countries for decades and I can assure you, they want what we have. Why would they not? Tap water in homes, floors which are not dirt, flushing toilets, showers, glass in the windows etc.
Aboriginal peoples were no different. They accepted or stole the benefits of the then modern world. They were not stupid. Many followed settlers because they wanted what they had. Many joined that new world because they wanted what they had.
Not all did of course and the British set up ration depots across the country to follow and feed them to keep them alive and hoping to reduce their horrific rates of infanticide.
If the British had wanted to exterminate them it would have been easy. DO NOTHING. Do not provide food, medical care, shelter, blankets in Winter and do not take babies left to die into care and do not take the sick and old left to die when the clan moved on into care. Do not build hospitals to treat STD's which, would either kill or render sterile. It would have been so easy to do nothing and let them die out because of their high rates of infanticide and the physical struggle of their lives.
The modern fantasy that they lived in some sort of Utopia is delusional. Study anthropology and how all stone-age peoples struggled. Including our ancestors. Read the records from archaeologists, anthropologists, botanists, ethnographers, explorers, missionaries, settlers, police, Aboriginal Protestors who lived alongside these many different peoples.
Aboriginal women subjected to terrible violence in their societies, documented by the literate Europeans from experience and the stories the women themselves told. Many aboriginal women took up with European men because women were bartered to strangers in aboriginal groups and most chose to stay with the Europeans because, as they stated over and over again, they were fed and not beaten.
Anyone who thinks the British should have either joined their stone-age lives or ensured they never moved beyond stone-age is a fool.
White, Christian, Europeans have done most of the colonising and they have set a great example for the Zionist colonizers. Take what you want, kill who gets in your way and insist that you are making them "civilized". I think the people who consider themselves the bearers of civilization are the worst.
Israel tried to get Albert Einstein to be head of state. He refused because the Palestinian injustice would be endless trouble and he'd be a figurehead powerless to stop it. Israel wanted him for the purpose of fundraising only.
"Creating Israel was a mistake. A mistake that needs to be corrected."
No truer words ever printed. And so hard to do without the cooperation of those who made the mistake to begin with, but it has to be done somehow. Apartheid and genocide has to end, the sooner, the better.
You are absolutely right, Caitlin. But imho you also need to highlight the nefarious role of Britain who illegally turned over their protectorate of Palestine to the Zionist colonists. Without the British the Zionists would never have been able to establish this settler-colonial apartheid “state”.
Don't kid yourself. The Zionists and Jews certainly had power in Britain but they had it in many countries. And the terrorist violence of the Jewish terrorist groups swayed a lot of people as did Jewish money. The British were one of many who played a part in the criminal act of creating Israel in Palestine.
Israelis have committed too many War Crimes, and too many Crimes Against Humanity over the past few years (after decades of patiently and permissively being told to stop committing such crimes, without genuine sanction) to be ever trusted again by most humans. Israel has bombed, shot, starved, raped, and tortured its last get-out-of-G3n0c1d3-free card with Jill & Joe Public. The ongoing Nakba, just like the Shoah that spawned it, will never be forgotten or forgiven. The Zioni g3n0c1d3 state of Israel is now primarily remembered as the Nation State that was gifted extraordinary kindness by Palestine and others because of it's parent State's (Nazi) Shoah, and responded in full knowledge, and in malice aforethought, with the perpetual Nakba of those kind, indigenous hosts. Boycott, Divest, Sanction today.
In the book My Promised Land, Ari Shavit points out that the dispossession of the people already living in Palestine is the fundamental hypocrisy that Zionism cannot resolve. And it is what causes Israel to violate its fundamental principles again and again- even worse, it is that now the current government is so evil, they just don't care anymore about anything but staying in power.
"Sure you can go further back and say “Oh yeah well the Jews lived there thousands of years ago,”
Yes, you can do that, but then you can also go back even further and say, Oh yeah, well the Jews invaded Canaan and did to the Canaanites what they are doing to the Palestinians on the pretext that Canaan was the land that God promised them.
Sadly, for the Zionists, they cannot claim to be the first to occupy what is now known as Israel, and like the present occupation, the first was acquired by violence, destruction and theft of other people's property.
No archaeological truth to Jews invading Canaan. None for Jews in Egypt, the Exodus, time in the desert, falling walls of Jericho, a tribe called Israel let alone a kingdom, or the claimed Kings David and Solomon - NONE, NADA ZIP. Even if there were it counts for nothing because religions do not get to claim land or homelands.
That may or may not be so -- I don't know -- but the Bible states that the Jews who left Egypt were unwanted in Canaan. Over the generations they genocided the other tribes, this campaign described in detail.
Whether or not there is any archeological evidence as you say is irrelevant. There is substantial archeological evidence of the land being inhabited by humans long, long before any Jewish claim to the land as it was in the middle of the major migration path of humans out of Africa 50,000 to 70,000 years ago. So, whenever Jews settled in the land of Israel, Palestine or Canaan, whatever you want to call it, they confiscated the land from someone else who was there before them. And you can bet the previous inhabitants didn't give up the land peacefully.
Essentially, isfromhell is a group of people, 90% Eastern European, who talk about Greater Israel as being their birthright, because another group of people from Babylon said so some 2500 years ago, which includes all of Palestine, most of Syria, southern Lebanon, the Sanai, Northern Egypt, Western Arabia, and up to the border of Iran, then cry and moan when the people who live there fight back, instead of sitting still as they get bombed and shot. Under any other circumstance, anywhere in the world, this would not be tolerated. Just like it wasn't when I was growing up in apartheid South Africa. But because it's Jews, the world quivers and shakes in fear of offending them. And then I'm the friggin crazy one when I call this most obvious sign of mass conditioning and mind control. The hypocrisy is so thick, I keep bumping into it.
It wasn't a tragic mistake; but a purposeful strategic ploy to solve two challenges in their world-dominance strategy: a horde of traumatized, embittered concentration camp survivors; and Arab nationalism with its possibility of federated Arabs flexing their petrochemical muscle. Why not "set a cat among the pidgeons"?
Well the other core factor in why screams of, BUT YOU WANT THE DEATHS OF JEWS, does not work is:
Most Jews on planet earth do not live in the bit of Palestine temporarily called Israel, NEVER DID AND NEVER WILL.
The eradication of the military, colonial, apartheid, occupying state called Israel has no physical impact on most Jews on the planet. Sure, hard at the dream/fantasy, delusion/religious level but not in any other way.
And many of those who call themselves Israelis are dual passport holders. They have another home. A lot of them only have holiday homes in what they call Israel so they are hardly in a bind when Israel is eradicated. Well, not physically even if they are emotionally distraught.
And tough shit for followers of a religion stupid enough to think they can invade, occupy and colonise someone else's country in the name of their religion, their supremacist religion, which disenfranchises and seeks to exterminate all non-followers, which happens to be 99.9% of the people in the country they have stolen. Talk about a stupid plan in the first place.
The Portugese Christians went back to where they came from, most of them, after 500 years or 20 generations in Angola so European Jews going back to where they came from after 78 years or three generations is, well, piddling by comparison.
I have felt this way fo a long time. I agree with you whole heartedly and feel that creating the state of Israel in 1948 was a grave error by world powers.
1) “There’s no valid reason to believe some Jewish guy in New York City even has any meaningful lineage connecting him to that land more strongly than any random Muslim in Turkey or wherever, and even if there was, it would still be absurd to cite ancient history as the basis for a territorial claim.”
Gee, Caitlin, isn’t the emotional tug of the theme music from “Exodus” enough to convince you otherwise...?
2) “So the original source for the grievance is clearly the artificial creation of an ethnonationalist state in the mid-20th century, and the push by Zionists and western imperialists to make it happen.”
Fifteen nations comprised UNSCOP (UN Special Committee on Palestine), only one of which, Iran, had an inkling of the issues surrounding Palestine. Gee, I wonder who arranged for the membership of that group? Somehow, through the powers of higher math, this committee figured that giving 56% of the land – and the better land at that – to the smaller, one-third Jewish population at the time, and 44% to the two-thirds larger Arab population, was an equitable solution. Mathematicians to this day still are perplexed as to how the underlying postulate yielded the solution that it did, evidently it is lost to history, like the formula for Greek fire.
3) Just because speaking with a British accent sounds all up-and-up and proper doesn’t excuse the fact that it was the f***ing British who were, and still are, responsible for this mess, consistent with their “legacy of violence” and exploitation throughout the world (see Caroline Elkins’ “Legacy of Violence: A History of the British Empire.”
4) “This means that creating Israel was a mistake. A mistake that needs to be corrected… The Israel experiment has been tried, and it has failed. It is time to try something else.”
I once posited that if it should ever come about, the only chance for peace and a fractionally just recompense for Palestine would require the following:
• The erasure of all geographic boundaries of the faux “state” of Israel, 1967, 1973, Eretz, Ersatz, whatever, and all land reverted to its rightful owners, the Palestinians.
• The dismantlement of the state of Israel not only for the sake of the Palestinians and other peoples in the region, but for humankind as a whole.
• That all its assets be transferred to the Palestinians.
• That 75% of all Israelis personal assets be transferred to the Palestinians people.
• That the Israelis/Zionists be compelled to develop (using their own money, not US aid) a site encompassing the entirety of their now-former capital of Tel Aviv to establish, akin to "The Memorial to the Murdered Jews of Europe" in Berlin, "The Memorial to the Murdered, Maimed, Orphaned, Displaced, and Dehumanized People of Palestine."
• That the equivalent of 5% of the present population of Palestine of present Jews in Israel be allowed to remain as full-rights citizens of the newly reconstituted state of Palestine, all others required to apply for citizenship, otherwise to emigrate elsewhere within one year.
I still maintain this is the only conceivable, best approximation of justice, redress for the historical stain on the human record that is the legacy* of Zionism and Israel, and the unfathomable harm done the Palestinian people.
*Along with its complacent defecation on all that is decent and human in civilized life, the further repugnant legacy of Zionism and Israel is the diminishment to the point of near oblivion of any sense of justice and hope for the rest of us; it is of nihilism, that nothing else matters in life – be it tangible or symbolic, real or imagined, valued or banal – except itself. It is the galactic and ironic opposite of the familiar toast “L’chaim!” “To life!”
The brave young Israelis who have served prison sentences rather than serve in the IDF should have first option on being part of that 5% of Jews allowed to stay in Palestine.
I have read of a young Jew who emigrated to Israel. As part of the naturalization process they gave him a Hebrew document which he signed. It turned out he had just volunteered for the army. After a period of service/enslavement he told them a relative had died and he needed leave. He deserted and returned home.
Nice place, eh?
A veritable slice of heaven, Patrick.
Zionists didn't get their reputation for being conspiratorial tricksters and liars for nothing.
So they even lie to their own. Charming.
I personally think that for any Israeli 18-year-old to do this requires so much fortitude and integrity that most of us could hardly comprehend it. I think to a degree you can’t really even blame 18-year-olds for not having the immense courage to do it. To even be in a position to be aware enough, you would have needed a lot of adults around you during your childhood who endorsed it.
I agree, it is extraordinarily courageous. It's a reason that I have an automatic payment set up to the Refuser Solidarity Network every month. An added bonus is their newsletter that helps to remind me that there are some very fine people among Israelis. Maybe not many, but some.
Very good point, Rosalind.
While I like - and can see reason in - your reparation ideas, the latter proposal that much of the current 'Israeli' population should emigrate sends shivers up my spine. Have you ever met an 'Israeli' ? You wouldn't want one moving to a neighbourhood near you, that's for sure.
so true ! i was in israel around 40 years ago, it was not a happy place even then. hardly any israelis have a ready smile for people, unlike the palestinian people, who are warm and welcoming.
Hmmm, you raise a point... I don't think I ever have met one, my only direct sense comes from watching Abby Martin interviewing young Israelis on their attitudes towards Palestinians some years ago; news footage of an Israeli settler claiming Palestinian property as his; news footage covering those hooligans after the soccer match in Denmark, was it?; and of course Netanyahu and assorted ("a sordid"?) other Israeli government officials on t.v. Disgust and obnoxiousness are common denominators throughout. No, certainly wouldn't want one in the neighborhood.
I guess your point can be taken as they've already done so much harm in the region in which they find themselves, why let 'em spread? Maybe then the answer may be to do to them what they did to the Gazans, put 'em behind a wall, monitor them, control what goes in, what goes out, 'til they die. I suppose justice in that as well.
Emotions are high and the darkness inside me wants to see every last one of them punished. But there are innocent Israelis too...a few...and a precious few advocating for Palestine. Then there are others who are just brainwashed and deluded but not bad to the bone. I can't conscionably wish them dead. Treating them like Gazans makes us as bad as them. I don't want them to do that to me.
I have met many Israelis travelling. They are loud, selfish, arrogant, aggressive and thoroughly unpleasant to be around. Not all, of course, but the majority. Nowadays I avoid anywhere they are likely to be. If a bunch of them came to live near me I'd have to move. I don't know what's to be done with them that won't cause more problems down the line, but I feel it must start with reeducation. Using facts!
Yes, but it's only to be expected.
The ones being tourists have been brought up from birth to believe they are god's chosen brats, the world belongs to them and that all other humans are lesser humans or animals.
During their time in the IDF they have been given the power of god to kill children, men, women and to destroy without restraint, with not only complete immunity, but even having criticism of their actions made illegal or impossible in all western countries.
That's one helluva power for a teenager to have. They have not been socialized to exist the worldwide community of adults.
Yes that's the problem exactly.
Excellent point. I once read an 19 year old in the army during Vietnam that said he was amazed that at his age and low rank he had been given the power of life or death.
I understand your concern over harming the innocents. And you're right, there are very few of them. Frankly, I'm too tired and too disgusted to devise a scheme to separate them from the rest at the moment. Other than to say they should have left long ago themselves, there is no redeeming the illegitimate state.
As to reeducation, the facts, I don't see that working, because the indoctrination they get from infancy through adulthood is too pervasive, too reinforced to undo. This is a bunch that has been taught to interpret everything in terms of Israel. I mean, if an Israeli grade school teacher were to ask her charges what 2 + 2 equals, and little Aaron or Rachel energetically raised his or her hand and shouted out, "I know, I know, 2 + 2 = Israel!" the teacher then says, "Very good, you learned your lesson well!" as she stuck a little star of David sticker on his/her forehead.
That's how whacked out this bunch is.
Yes I agree...but while we're talking in the wildly hypothetical, I was meaning their young should be educated from birth, to prevent this happening with the next generation. There's no hope for anyone over the age of 7.
The two countries most responsible for this genocide are England and the USA. Deport the Israelis there.
I agree but the civilians - and I am one - don't deserve to suffer for our despised governmental policies, especially the ones that occurred before we were born.
Send them to space. They'd like that, being techy an' all.
It's a different kind, though. I don't often meet this kind of American as they tend to stay in high-end places whereas the ex-IOF crowd travel in large groups and take over budget hostels, outnumbering the independent travellers looking for some peace. They are so obnoxious in groups that many hostels in Latin America have (or had, 15/20 years ago) signs on the door, No Israelis
That's tough. Look what the Palestinians have had to go through. The residents of countries that support the demonic entity will have to eat a shit sandwich because we haven't done a thing for justice.
What country in its right mind would accept 8,000,000 Israelis the majority of whom appear to be clinical psychopaths? These people are Nazis and the only way to expunge that is by using the same formula as the Nuremburg trials.
They occupy stolen land and nobody wants them, beyond me to figure that one out...
It is rather daunting to think about.
Hey Zio-bitch. Go and fuck yourself!
Lost! Like the technology to land men on the moon;)
It was satanic…
Exactly. Israel must go or we end up in WW III
https://www.beyourowndoctor.org/p/zionist-israel-must-go-or-we-end?r=14es53
Most of the borders imposed on that area in the aftermath of WW2 were total disasters. A massive shite-show of western imperial hubris.
why on earth are the Israelis never happy with the borders they got, all for FREE!
As James Baldwin said in 1965 "The reason Americans cannot face their history is that the history indicts their identity." And you cannot ask someone to accept the evidence that destroys who they think they are because no one likes their identity - that which defines them at the inner core - indicted.
Same thing here: jews/zionists cannot face their history and accept the evidence in front of their eyes because it destroys who they think they are. This is why so many engage in these mental gymnastics of trying to separate judaism from zionism, like the latter just erupted ex nihilo when in reality Israel’s Declaration of Independence literally defines it as a Jewish state, reborn on ancestral land after 2,000 years of exile, pogroms...
I am an atheist so all these references to fiction are comical to me. But for those who believe in this nonsense, zionism was created by god himself. As it says in Zachariah 8:3 “So said the Lord: I will return to Zion, and I will dwell in the midst of Jerusalem; and Jerusalem shall be called the city of truth, and the mount of the Lord of Hosts [shall be called] the holy mountain.”
Zionism wasn’t a colonial startup; it was a rescue mission. Herzl and company didn’t invent the idea, they revived it, drawing from scripture. This is why over 80% of jews not only support Israel but see it as an integral part of their IDENTITY.
You can never convince them otherwise because you can never negotiate with someone's identity and in this case the need to believe that their cause is righteous and that their presence in those parts and the need to expand is ordained by god.
Well, according to Rabbi Beck jews should never have had a state just for jews, nor should they be in Palestine because it belongs to Palestinians, and they have no right to remain in any land at all because God decreed that they be homeless (without a homeland), they should not have moved into the holy land, until the messiah, the real one, has returned when we will all be united in God. Rabbi Beck also claims that zionism is moving jews away from God, that only the Jewish religion is moving away from God, because of zionism. Personally I think evangelicals are moving people away from God and the replacement is money and accumulation of things, and that us costing thus planet big time because we have become a throwaway society.
The messiah will nit be coming with sword in hand to fight a war. His roll is to bring peace to all, which shows again that israel is definitely a zionist concept to move jews away from their God. When you look back at who forced the nazis to imprison jews in camps then to exterminate them
Oh, and something we felt: netanyahu IS Amalek. Again, Amalek is not a place(like israel is not meant to be a place). Amalek is a concept, a personality, the inner person. We knew deep down Netanyahu is evil, now we have the word of a Rabbi. When this killing spree ends, there will be no israel, only Palestine ruled by Palestinians with Palestinian government, and definitely no israel anywhere.
I have listened to several Rabbis and Jewish scholars saying the same thing. That to have a dedicated homeland is against the very foundations of Judaism.
Personally I don't give a 💩 about any religion. But whatever people need - as long as it doesn't impinge on anyone else's needs. I care only about justice. What it does, though, is show their arguments to be invalid. They don't have a leg to stand on either way.
who gives a shit what some random rabbi says? He's just trying to absolve himself from an ugly situation by pretending zionism just erupted out of nowhere. Priests in any religion are like supreme court justices: interpreting the written word to fit their agenda. The more important thing is to look at the actions. How many synagogues have condemned the genocide in any meaningful way? The few dissenting voices are irrelevant when looking at the bigger picture...
The Jews rejected Jesus because he didn't take up his sword and smite his enemies as they had expected. The evangelical Christians were smarter: they changed god into a prosperity deity, and conveniently forgot about Jesus, peace, love and humility.
Well put Ginnie, I follow Avigail Abarbanel on Substack, and can highly recommended her work. She is a fearless ex Israeli who renounced her citizenship. She understands the psychology (she’s a practicing psychotherapist) of the state explicitly, at quite some personal cost she continues her educational writing. This piece is particularly strong when laying those cards on the table.
https://avigail.substack.com/p/zionism-was-always-genocidal-on-what
If you can't negotiate with that belief then you must impose alongside it the belief that others, too, have equal 'god given' rights to the land.
Whether or not their ancestors lived in the vicinity in biblical times, they were not the only ones there. It's completely nonsensical to claim they were. Perhaps rationality and history should be taught from an early age instead of just hateful propaganda
But when Jesus comes back (any day now) they will say he's not the real Messiah? How will they recognize their real one? Just wondering.
now You are getting the picture...
the "jew" messiah the one whom netanyahu will place the sceptre of power into the hands of, that in basic terms is
a) moschiach ben david, which in Islam= "false prophet/false Jesus), which is in the common tongue "anti- the -christ"
whereas the messiah of the gentiles is
b) mosciach ben joseph, which in Islam is "prophet Jesus", common tongue "Jesus Christ"
fundamental zio christians who are ignorant believe that a) is "Jesus" or 2nd coming...
the less ignorant zio christians know it s the "anti-christ" yet view its arrival as forcing the 2nd coming/return of Jesus
the concept of counter messiahs controlling and diverting Human emotion in powerful ways (egregores) is precisely the fake narrative pushed within the "matrix" hypothesis, its old testament sorcery re-cooked for a modern audience.
the "trick" is to see without being drawn emotionally or spiritually, easier written than done
another common take/reveal on this is the "I pet goat ii" , the Islamic decodes are very good, one I regularly link has been I think taken down, but try on way back if interested:
https://alvadossadegh.com/en/i-pet-goat-2-99-decoding-the-antichrists-plan-2020/
Link didn't work.
as I said you'd need to try on way back
I take it I dont need to point out what a 7 year trigger code added to 2012 would mean do i...?
2019
for a further perspective of where this is headed in the "real world" this floated up today:
https://richardmedhurst.substack.com/p/how-the-us-pulled-off-an-armed-robbery
when comprehended and added to the "noahide" rollout (initially in america but intended globally) and you begin to see a two pronged sustained attack on Humanity that encompasses resource slavery in the "real world" with religious slavery in the "spiritual realm"
not quite what we've been told, it was never a "new world order" its always been intended as a "jew world order"
the polarity of hate by many yet the adoration of others re the illegal state of "isreal" is mechanism to create a psychic maelstrom....
theres lot of reading to be had here:
https://janasutoova.substack.com/
an entire back history of how We got here, here:
https://hiddeninthecrag.wordpress.com/
hope that helps
Oh, I see.
And just like their father the devil, they twist scripture that they pick from to fit their narrative.
Those of us with 1/2 a brain can see that basic chronology puts Zionism in its grave where it belongs. Just like God did in 70 ad when they rejected His Son. If you follow the chronology of the Bible, the New Testament puts the Old Testament to death where it belongs. Biblical Judaism was ended by God Himself, what you see today is “rabbinic” Judaism which is satanic.
”having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.“
Colossians 2:14 NKJV
”In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.“
Hebrews 8:13 NKJV
”For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law.“
Hebrews 7:12 NKJV
Borders? Israel doesn't have complete borders that are internationally recognized.
Correct, it never declared its borders. It does have walls, gates, checkpoints and other structures, though.
Because THEY don't accept borders. Nor international law, nor begging to stop the Holocaust of Gaza, Lebanon, Syria, Iran etc.
Pure existence through violence and violating other people.
Jordan declared war on Isreal in a land grab and lost the West Bank in the process. Personally I think it should be given back to Jordan.
Israel does not have universally agreed-upon borders with the United Nations. Never has done. Not even in the 1947 partition motion. This is because Israel has a Plan Dalet in which they pursue Eretz Yisrael. The Greater Israel whereby they keep extending the undeclared border of Israel to, eventually, include the rest of the world.
You know, "God!"
They breed a lot.
Turn it around, fool! It is Israel that is attacking and/or occupying Iran, Syria, and Lebanon right now, continuing the genocide in Gaza and ethnic cleansing in the West Bank. The nutcases running Israel think their borders are the Nike and Euphrates. Caitlin is absolutely right about the genesis of the conflict. Read it again.
If Iran, Hezbollah and Hamas are not the good guys, right, then the West and the Allies who invaded Europe on the side of the French, Polish Resistance and others occupied by Germany were not the good guys either? That is nonsensical.
Iran supports the Palestinian and Lebanese Resistance movements in the same way we supported the Resistance movements in Europe against German occupation. Exactly the same thing except for Muslim haters.
The raping and killing, documented since 1947, has been done by Jews in Palestine not by Muslims.
The lack of sanity in so many Israel supporters is sad to see. Get help.
To give you a good edit.
You said: Hamas and the IRGC rape and murder their own people.
NO EVIDENCE FOR THAT CLAIM FROM ISRAEL BUT HEAPS OF EVIDENCE DOCUMENTED FOR 78 YEARS THAT ISRAELIS RAPE AND MURDER NON-JEWS AND EVEN RAPE AND MURDER THEIR OWN PEOPLE IF THEY OPPOSE ZIONISM.
You said: They will sacrifice every last citizen of Gaza and Iran for their own purposes.
Yes, Israeli policy totally.
You said: The Ayatollah told every man in Iran they can have sex with babies.
Only an imbecile would believe such a stupid lie. Get help.
You said. Hamas and IRGC murder you for resisting their rule.
Not a shred of evidence for that but lots for Israel murdering anyone who resists their colonial military rule.
You said: IRGC is still hanging more people that were "caught" protesting in January.
Probably. There were a lot of Mossad/CIA saboteurs, traitors who were arrested.
You said: IRGC charges parents for the bullets used to kill their family.
Wow, it takes an impressive level of idiot to believe that.
You said: You are a coward and an extremist for ignoring this.
Nah, I deal in facts, cowards and extremists lie as you do and believe childish propaganda.
You said: I bet you're fine with the the West going down to 40% European?
You might like to prove that idiot claim. For what it is worth there is no European, 40% or otherwise as people. There are no races, just the human race. We are all descended from the same ancestors.
WHAT IS EUROPEAN BY THE WAY? Spaniards, Russians, Croatians, Greeks, French are all very, very, very different but all in Europe.
You said: Why can't Palestine? It's for the good of all isn't it?
Why can't Palestine what? Be European? Because it is not in Europe.
Drs nurses rescuers children are targeted by scum jews
idf killed 70000 in gaza !
stop lies
You ghouls really need to improve the quality of your trolling.
I think this is satire? But you're not very good at it.
Perhaps listen to a little less GB news, hmm?
"Hamas and their daddies the IRGC rape and kill their own people"
Straight outta "Israeli/U.S. propaganda 101".
See Hannibal Directive on Oct 7, 2023.
You do realize Hamas and Hezbollah were formed to defend against 80+ years of constant Israeli supremacism, racism, lies, propaganda, apartheid, blockades, land theft, attacks, terrorism, murder, and genocide. You do realize Israel was founded by Eastern European terrorist gangs, and they definitely were never "the good guys"... as these racist terrorist Israelis of today so definitively demonstrate...
https://teeashby.substack.com/p/abby-martin-went-to-israel-its-worse?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=9kp65
Which Islam? Start learning..........
But it's OK that the IDF rape and kill Palestinians?
Lol.
what You are maybe trying to say is that what too few know:
"hamas is simply a covert division of the idf"
take 7 yr old Palestinian kids, lock them in solitary (sometimes for as much as 10 years), abuse them physically, mentally, emotionally... and more.
train them to appear one way, be another..
then when ready allow them to "escape" or release them, once back in the fold they dont even know what lingers in them...
this is fact, not fiction
the "isreali" methodology is that of the truly most depraved sub-humans that draw breath...
for further insight its also pertinent to know how "isreal" utilised ai-video architecture to create false footage for supply to the western media, its exposed here:
https://matt1up.substack.com/p/synthetic-ai-news
pertinent because they will attempt to use this fake evidence methodology to convict, then execute "gentiles" if they manage to push further the "noahide court framework"
ambivalence or ineptitude, ignorance or laziness are not excuses when failing to realise that demons in human skins walk among us... "they live"
Israel trains dogs to rape prisoners. And passes laws justifying it.
read my comment again.... but you did didnt you and you chose to try to twist it..
now only either someone mentally retarded or working influence would try such, which are you boy?
The borders were illegal and the plan for the sickraelis was always ALL OF PALESTINE, ALL OF LEBANON, ALL OF SYRIA, ALL OF JORDAN, ALL OF IRAQ AND SLABS OF SAUDI ARABIA, EGYPT AND IRAN.
And sorry mate, the shitraelis have a policy that non-Jews are subhuman and must be exterminated which is 99.9% of Palestinians and most people in the region. Doncha think if some nutjob occupied the US with that sort of sicko plan that Americans and other Christians would fight the bastards to the death?
All that you’re saying about “Islam” can absolutely be applied to “Israel”, no? It’s not like the IOF have not been raping and killing people all these years, long before October 7 and absolutely supported by their “citizens”. And who is it that’s been illegally invading land left right and centre now and even is public enough declare their intent to invade more for “Greater Israel”? So what’s the difference? That they’re white? But I thought they’re from “Middle East”, they can’t be white then can they? Oh because they’re only defending themselves and absolutely didn’t do anything to provoke the attacks? Like years of randomly detaining civilians and killing children and raping detainees and using illegal phosphorus and destroying schools, hospitals, mosques and churches, for example? Let’s count how many countries “Christians” have and see how many are willing to give it up for poor little Israel eh? If you say you’re not worried about the Israelis, then maybe you should wake the hell up
Oh FFS, how about dealing in facts. All religions take from others. Jews took a lot from the ancient Egyptian religion of the great Mother Isis, Christians took a lot from Judaism and Islam took a lot from Christianity and so, by default, Jews.
Islam is up to nothing from what any sane adult can see and the facts suggest so wherever you are living it is a weird kinda place mate.
You’re equating what Israel is doing now with what the Muslims are doing eh? Fascinating. This say more about you than you know. I’ve never seen a Muslim degrading Jesus or any religious figures but man, there’s no love like a Judeo-Christian hate. Have a good life figuring out who the bad guys are.
They (Zionists) have already taken control of government and media. They have brainwashed you into thinking Muslim= bad. 'islam' is not up to' anything. And you do realise there are Christians and atheists being slaughtered in Palestine also? Israelis don't care about religion. It's about land, and pure hatred of 'the other' that you seem to share.
You'd just love a bunch of israelis living next door to you. They're such nice people 🤣
Myth.
Illegal by any understanding of the law.
The UN had and has no legal right to partition any country on earth. Neither did the League of Nations or Lord Balfour.
In fact the UN did not partition Palestine but made a recommendation which the Zionists and Jews rendered null and void in 1947 by ignoring the condition that the Palestinians be left to live in peace in what was proposed would remain of their country, 47%.
Ziojewraelis did not abide by the original recommendation, nor the demand they leave the Palestinians in peace so whatever one might argue in a court of law, the UN Mandate recommendation could never stand.
As to your comment about Islam, this is not about religion, this is about the right of the Palestinian people to justice and freedom in their homeland.
And, hate to break it to you, but there is no other Muslim majority State which functions remotely like Israel in its supremacist, genocidal, fascist, apartheid nature. NOT ONE.
The ones invading, murdering, raping, torturing, stealing, destroying for the past half century and more are Jews and Christians. The Muslims are benign by comparison.
PALESTINE BELONGS ONLY TO THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE, ALL OF IT AND BELONGS TO NO RELIGION.
Illegal by any understanding of the law.
The UN had and has no legal right to partition any country on earth. Neither did the League of Nations or Lord Balfour.
In fact the UN did not partition Palestine but made a recommendation which the Zionists and Jews rendered null and void in 1947 by ignoring the condition that the Palestinians be left to live in peace in what was proposed would remain of their country, 47%.
Ziojewraelis did not abide by the original recommendation, nor the demand they leave the Palestinians in peace so whatever one might argue in a court of law, the UN Mandate recommendation could never stand.
As to your comment about Islam, this is not about religion, this is about the right of the Palestinian people to justice and freedom in their homeland.
And, hate to break it to you, but there is no other Muslim majority State which functions remotely like Israel in its supremacist, genocidal, fascist, apartheid nature. NOT ONE.
The ones invading, murdering, raping, torturing, stealing, destroying for the past half century and more are Jews and Christians. The Muslims are benign by comparison.
PALESTINE BELONGS ONLY TO THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE, ALL OF IT AND BELONGS TO NO RELIGION.
Again. Which Islam. You speak as though Islam is one big religion and people.........it is not.
What is your problem with islam? How does someone else's religion affect you?
Just maybe if having your desired home necessitates murder and other atrocities it might be better to consider other more ethical options
Ziojewraelis do not do ethical. No word for it in the fake hebrew they speak.
Zionist arguments all boil down to might is right.
Except when Jews are victims. Then Muh Victim Status Trumps Everything, Muh Victim Status Is More Special Tha Yours, Muh Victim Status Is Extra Special.
And you wonder why I have a problem with humans who insist that "the personal is political". Because it only applies to Me And Mine As Victims.
Colonization has never worked for anyone, especially not for indigenous people. Every colonized country involved murder and stealing. Zionism makes colonization even worse. Zionists may think they are superior beings, but as we watch what they are doing, we see that they are cruel with no morals at all. Israel is showing us that they will stop at nothing to get what they have decided is theirs. Zionism and Israel are making the entire world unsafe for everyone, especially for Jews.
Patently untrue. The Britons hated the Romans but they certain benefited. Stone-age nomadic hunter gatherers in Australia benefited by joining the then modern world and working to create one of the best countries on the planet and a lot of them knew it and wanted to assimilate just as many Britons wanted to take what Romans offered.
Everyone has colonised and been colonised. The peoples who came to be called Aborigins in Australia were colonisers, arriving in different waves of invasion and migration. As stone-age peoples they killed those they found in their way apart from a few useful females.
The British gave those aboriginal peoples citizenship and worked to help them join the then modern world, which most did, and to work towards creating a modern nation, which most did.
Does it make you feel better to pretend that European colonisation improved the lives of indigenous Australians? You sound like someone from a really racist past generation. “Stone Age” - really? The oldest continuous culture on earth who were doing just fine until white colonists (who literally starved in a strange country they had no respect for) came along.
The imported diseases that wiped out entire populations, the massacres we never learned about in school, the stolen generations, the enslavement, the destruction of culture and country. Aboriginal people were not granted Australian citizenship until 1948 despite serving in our wars (how nice of us to grant them rights to their own bloody country). You think Aboriginal people today live well? No discrimination, no disadvantage? Your comment is quite ignorant and shameful.
They raped young girls promised to them as babies , kept women as chattels, lived by complete superstition. The lives of Aboriginal women and girl kids have improved immeasurably since Europeans as they are no longer expected to be married off as small children and then raped and beaten, to spend their miserable lives looking for food when not being raped. Aboriginal men’s lot has changed for the worse, as they can no longer legally rape their child brides or legally beat or kill their multiple wives …..
Oh FFS!
Ridiculous comments not facts based.
So you think Australians should be living stone-age with no modern medicine and still practising infanticide and cannibalism to survive.
Every culture on earth is the same as the next in terms of age because we all have the same human ancestors.
all cultures change. For aboriginal culture to be continuous all of them would be living stone-age, practising infanticide and cannibalism with women as slaves and with no blankets, clothes, iron or housing. Get real.
Do some friggin research, Your ignorance is appalling.
And for FFS aborigines had citizenship by 1800. They may not have known it but they did. that is a matter of record.
Your comment is appalling in its misinformation.
That's quite different from what I've heard since living in Australia for some fifty years and what the Australian aborigines have told me. The history of the Australian aborigine goes back at least 40,000 years or more. I have never heard anything about them killing people they came across here because there were none.
Can you point out where you got this information from, be ause I cannot find it.
Westerners always cling to technological advances as a sign of civilizational superiority...
So comforting to know that the burgeoning global climate hell and our potential nuclear annihilation at the hands of dick-waving jingoist psychopaths has been brought to us by the most righteous of peoples. 🙏
Where have you met someone who is 100% aboriginal living a stone-age hunter gatherer life? Nowhere. So you have met no aborigines. You have met Australians with aboriginal ancestry, many of whom believe things about the past which are not true. I suggest you study the facts.
The estimated time-frame for humans in Australia, thanks to Western science is around 40,000 to 50,000 years. Whether any of those here when the British arrived in 1788 we do not know.
When you say no-one was here how do you reach that conclusion? When the first Homo Sapiens arrived there probably were none but subsequent waves of invasion, migration and colonisation would have found many different peoples.
The aborigines of Tasmania were negroid and were believed to be some of the earliest, driven south by new invaders while the landbridge to Tasmania still existed. The peoples of Queensland and NT are largely derived from New Guinea invaders and colonists. Around 4000 years ago we had an invasion of Indians, from southern India, who brought their native dog which became the dingo. You seem to assume a bunch of humans arrived 40,000 years ago and that was it.
Nature abhors inbreeding and if others had not arrived that first mob would have died out in a thousand years.
I am sure you have not heard about the violence which is why you need to study the facts. Start reading everything from 1788 onwards and then get back to me. Material from about the 1960's is more opinion than fact but still useful to provide balance to the facts.
Read books and records and most of which you will not find googling. Anthropologists, historians, botanists, explorers, settlers, police wrote millions of words about what they saw and hear from 1788 onwards. The book by David Collins, An Account of the English Colony in New South Wales is a good place to start. He arrived in 1788 and stayed for 17 years.
Native Tribes of South Australia also worthwhile. Both can be found online or bought in reprint form.
Aboriginal peoples were stone age hunter gatherers. Study those cultures around the world to gain perspective. All humans once lived that way.
Actually, the British, killed the aborigines just like any other colonisers did elsewhere. That record has not been forgotten. They also divided families, taking children away to teach them how to be servants of the white colonisers. Odd thing is, the original inhabitants always find the lost children even after generations have passed.
Actually they did not. Aborigines were citizens and murder was murder. Read the records.
They did not divide fully aboriginal families because they tried to maintain culture. I think that was wrong. They took kids at risk, aboriginal or non-aboriginal into care for the same reasons. Part aboriginal kids were usually killed at birth and if not, often neglected and abused.
As to becoming servants, in the times, all poor girls, with or without aboriginal ancestry were trained as servants.
God I despair of the ignorance of people on this issue.
They aren't even aware of the socioeconomics of pre-microwave, pre-laundromat times. I can't even imagine what image they have in their minds of these times or any times including our own. They should probably be required to describe it, the way young children describe the neverending story inside their heads. They will have to include how they think it came about that the vast majority of the world ended up holding books in their scurvyless hands, blabbering on about political rights that someone other than they elucidated.
"Everyone has colonised and been colonised. The peoples who came to be called Aborigins in Australia were colonisers, arriving in different waves of invasion and migration. As stone-age peoples they killed those they found in their way apart from a few useful females."
You could call a tribe that moves into a humanless space colonizers but I don't accept that. There was a time that all land outside of Africa had no humans whatsoever. The Aborigins clearly came from Africa. Even Malaysia still has the Orang Asli (Original Men), a few natives that appear as African as could be and live in the central jungle.
The Neanderthals and so forth complicate matters but I'm going to ignore that.
The first humans to arrive were colonisers but the place was empty. The later waves involved killing those they found. That is what stone-age people did.
"Can't establish western hegemony without perpetrating a few genocides, whaddayagonna do? 🤷 "
Westerners: "Their lives are so much better now! 😊"
Former inhabitants: *largely exterminated* 💀
There is no group called Westerners which says, Their lives are so much better now.
What we do know is most humans want the benefits of the modern world - secure food, shelter, tap water in the home, flushing toilets, showers, education etc.
Why would aboriginal peoples be any different? Are you saying they are less than human?
Most Australians with aboriginal ancestry are doing the same as all other Australians with the same lives, health and outcomes. That is so much better than hand to mouth stone-age living.
The few who struggle, a small minority, are those who because of do-gooders are the least assimilated into the modern world and remain trapped in violent, primitive cultures in violent, primitive communities which doom and damn them and their children.
The idea that there was something magical about stone-age culture, which all humans once lived is not simply deranged it is cruel. Every child deserves a future and to be fed, protected and cared for not neglected, wandering the streets through the night, with booze-and drug-addled parents and adults of no help to them. Aboriginal communities are a deep and abiding tragedy. Sure, those who maintain them mean well - let's preserve their culture, except they live like moths pinned to a board with modern homes, which get trashed, supermarkets which are expensive, cars, mobile phones, television sets, electricity, booze and no hope and no future.
I have been to some of these places and you just want to weep. Particularly for the children. They still try to educate them with teachers brought in whose accommodation and schoolrooms are surrounded by razor wire because of the violence.
Meanwhile, the vast majority of Australians with aboriginal ancestry are doing fine. At around 3% of the population they are represented at 12% in State and Federal Parliaments. And most of them are in mixed marriages and most have been for generations. Australians have been intermarrying with aboriginal peoples for more than two centuries. And that is making everyone's lives better.
Mostly it was aboriginal women with European men but even some very brave European women married aboriginal men in the 19th century. At her side he joined the modern world and good on them. We have photos of such couples.
So ask yourself if you want to return to stone-age nomadic hunter-gathering with no modern medicine, dentistry, facilities, technology, equipment and if you do, off you go. You will not find anyone with aboriginal ancestry doing it if you go to tribal lands. They want, demand and get modern homes, utilities, cars and all the trappings. Most of which end up trashed, tragically, along with their lives and their children.
The successful ones are living in your suburb and others in the modern world.
That is a modern fabrication. Yes, colonisation by anyone often involves conflict. Ask the British, they were colonised violently a dozen times. They got over it.
By the time the British got to Australia with a lot of experience with less developed peoples they were for the times, more civilized than many. Fortunate for aborigines because otherwise it would have been the French, Portugese, Spanish, Chinese, Polynesians or someone else.
The British never had a policy of genocide but instead wanted to do what we spend millions today trying to do, helping those in less developed places join the modern world. How was that wrong in 1788 and right in 2026.
I have lived in India and four African countries for decades and I can assure you, they want what we have. Why would they not? Tap water in homes, floors which are not dirt, flushing toilets, showers, glass in the windows etc.
Aboriginal peoples were no different. They accepted or stole the benefits of the then modern world. They were not stupid. Many followed settlers because they wanted what they had. Many joined that new world because they wanted what they had.
Not all did of course and the British set up ration depots across the country to follow and feed them to keep them alive and hoping to reduce their horrific rates of infanticide.
If the British had wanted to exterminate them it would have been easy. DO NOTHING. Do not provide food, medical care, shelter, blankets in Winter and do not take babies left to die into care and do not take the sick and old left to die when the clan moved on into care. Do not build hospitals to treat STD's which, would either kill or render sterile. It would have been so easy to do nothing and let them die out because of their high rates of infanticide and the physical struggle of their lives.
The modern fantasy that they lived in some sort of Utopia is delusional. Study anthropology and how all stone-age peoples struggled. Including our ancestors. Read the records from archaeologists, anthropologists, botanists, ethnographers, explorers, missionaries, settlers, police, Aboriginal Protestors who lived alongside these many different peoples.
Aboriginal women subjected to terrible violence in their societies, documented by the literate Europeans from experience and the stories the women themselves told. Many aboriginal women took up with European men because women were bartered to strangers in aboriginal groups and most chose to stay with the Europeans because, as they stated over and over again, they were fed and not beaten.
Anyone who thinks the British should have either joined their stone-age lives or ensured they never moved beyond stone-age is a fool.
White, Christian, Europeans have done most of the colonising and they have set a great example for the Zionist colonizers. Take what you want, kill who gets in your way and insist that you are making them "civilized". I think the people who consider themselves the bearers of civilization are the worst.
Israel tried to get Albert Einstein to be head of state. He refused because the Palestinian injustice would be endless trouble and he'd be a figurehead powerless to stop it. Israel wanted him for the purpose of fundraising only.
Einstein had empathy.
"Creating Israel was a mistake. A mistake that needs to be corrected."
No truer words ever printed. And so hard to do without the cooperation of those who made the mistake to begin with, but it has to be done somehow. Apartheid and genocide has to end, the sooner, the better.
You are absolutely right, Caitlin. But imho you also need to highlight the nefarious role of Britain who illegally turned over their protectorate of Palestine to the Zionist colonists. Without the British the Zionists would never have been able to establish this settler-colonial apartheid “state”.
Don't kid yourself. The Zionists and Jews certainly had power in Britain but they had it in many countries. And the terrorist violence of the Jewish terrorist groups swayed a lot of people as did Jewish money. The British were one of many who played a part in the criminal act of creating Israel in Palestine.
It's mind blowing to think that the Palestinians received the first jewish occupiers as refugees, and treated them with humanity.
Israelis have committed too many War Crimes, and too many Crimes Against Humanity over the past few years (after decades of patiently and permissively being told to stop committing such crimes, without genuine sanction) to be ever trusted again by most humans. Israel has bombed, shot, starved, raped, and tortured its last get-out-of-G3n0c1d3-free card with Jill & Joe Public. The ongoing Nakba, just like the Shoah that spawned it, will never be forgotten or forgiven. The Zioni g3n0c1d3 state of Israel is now primarily remembered as the Nation State that was gifted extraordinary kindness by Palestine and others because of it's parent State's (Nazi) Shoah, and responded in full knowledge, and in malice aforethought, with the perpetual Nakba of those kind, indigenous hosts. Boycott, Divest, Sanction today.
Amen! Sing it, sister!
In the book My Promised Land, Ari Shavit points out that the dispossession of the people already living in Palestine is the fundamental hypocrisy that Zionism cannot resolve. And it is what causes Israel to violate its fundamental principles again and again- even worse, it is that now the current government is so evil, they just don't care anymore about anything but staying in power.
"Sure you can go further back and say “Oh yeah well the Jews lived there thousands of years ago,”
Yes, you can do that, but then you can also go back even further and say, Oh yeah, well the Jews invaded Canaan and did to the Canaanites what they are doing to the Palestinians on the pretext that Canaan was the land that God promised them.
Sadly, for the Zionists, they cannot claim to be the first to occupy what is now known as Israel, and like the present occupation, the first was acquired by violence, destruction and theft of other people's property.
No archaeological truth to Jews invading Canaan. None for Jews in Egypt, the Exodus, time in the desert, falling walls of Jericho, a tribe called Israel let alone a kingdom, or the claimed Kings David and Solomon - NONE, NADA ZIP. Even if there were it counts for nothing because religions do not get to claim land or homelands.
That may or may not be so -- I don't know -- but the Bible states that the Jews who left Egypt were unwanted in Canaan. Over the generations they genocided the other tribes, this campaign described in detail.
Whether or not there is any archeological evidence as you say is irrelevant. There is substantial archeological evidence of the land being inhabited by humans long, long before any Jewish claim to the land as it was in the middle of the major migration path of humans out of Africa 50,000 to 70,000 years ago. So, whenever Jews settled in the land of Israel, Palestine or Canaan, whatever you want to call it, they confiscated the land from someone else who was there before them. And you can bet the previous inhabitants didn't give up the land peacefully.
Essentially, isfromhell is a group of people, 90% Eastern European, who talk about Greater Israel as being their birthright, because another group of people from Babylon said so some 2500 years ago, which includes all of Palestine, most of Syria, southern Lebanon, the Sanai, Northern Egypt, Western Arabia, and up to the border of Iran, then cry and moan when the people who live there fight back, instead of sitting still as they get bombed and shot. Under any other circumstance, anywhere in the world, this would not be tolerated. Just like it wasn't when I was growing up in apartheid South Africa. But because it's Jews, the world quivers and shakes in fear of offending them. And then I'm the friggin crazy one when I call this most obvious sign of mass conditioning and mind control. The hypocrisy is so thick, I keep bumping into it.
It wasn't a tragic mistake; but a purposeful strategic ploy to solve two challenges in their world-dominance strategy: a horde of traumatized, embittered concentration camp survivors; and Arab nationalism with its possibility of federated Arabs flexing their petrochemical muscle. Why not "set a cat among the pidgeons"?
Well the other core factor in why screams of, BUT YOU WANT THE DEATHS OF JEWS, does not work is:
Most Jews on planet earth do not live in the bit of Palestine temporarily called Israel, NEVER DID AND NEVER WILL.
The eradication of the military, colonial, apartheid, occupying state called Israel has no physical impact on most Jews on the planet. Sure, hard at the dream/fantasy, delusion/religious level but not in any other way.
And many of those who call themselves Israelis are dual passport holders. They have another home. A lot of them only have holiday homes in what they call Israel so they are hardly in a bind when Israel is eradicated. Well, not physically even if they are emotionally distraught.
And tough shit for followers of a religion stupid enough to think they can invade, occupy and colonise someone else's country in the name of their religion, their supremacist religion, which disenfranchises and seeks to exterminate all non-followers, which happens to be 99.9% of the people in the country they have stolen. Talk about a stupid plan in the first place.
The Portugese Christians went back to where they came from, most of them, after 500 years or 20 generations in Angola so European Jews going back to where they came from after 78 years or three generations is, well, piddling by comparison.