Some of us old people have been organizing and marching for change, against war, against climate destruction, against the pollution of oceans for years and years. I am now 78 and started demonstrating against Vietnam when I was 20. I have objected to every war since then and so have many other people my age. Even people in these comments. It has always been the elite, the ones who took it upon themselves to rule us, who have declared the wars, taken away the healthcare, started the foodbanks rather than give a basic minimum wage. We can only hope that the young people of today have not bought into the idea that big is best, rich is success, war will save us. AND I have a son who has often told his friends that I am way more radical than he is. So don't go blaming this mess on the entire older generation and don't naively put your hopes on a group of young people who have been brought up with privilege and sometimes entitlement.
From a demographic perspective, boomers absolutely deserve the flak they get.
But I will always say that the ones who were actually activists in 60s... Well some of them sold out, you can't deny that... But those who didn't sell out are still marching and organising and mutual-aiding at our sides. They're our revered elders, and I mean literally revered.
But it's funny... When I bring up my lifelong track record (Gen X here) of being antiwar and an activist to remind people that we have always existed, always been fighting... I have a very different tone than you demonstrate. For example, I don't feel a need to parade my activist CV. And I would never DREAM of saying something like "We can only hope that the young people of today have not bought into the idea that big is best, rich is success, war will save us." That's so condescending, man. Me, I'm literally cheering on young people and doing everything I can to have their backs, because I know them, I see them, I literally learn from them every day.
If you haven't tuned me out yet... A risk I'm willing to take...
I didn't set out to be so critical. But it happened, as I went back and reread your words. I'm not taking it back and I'm not changing my tone. I think my words need to stand. I really don't think you meant to come off the way I read you. But younger people are very sensitive to even a scent of boomer arrogance and with good reason. This was more a comradely criticism than an attack. Maybe take this moment to listen to younger people, and to have our backs, rather than criticise us.
I was replying to Caitlin's post which was a bit ridiculous, I thought. Because I have remained an activist, I have, of course met many young people who are involved in trying to get rid of racism, nazism, etc. But I have also observed and talked with a lot of young people, as well as people my age and all ages in between who do not seem to be aware of what is happening in the world or why. I am sorry to have come off sounding as if I am opposing young people. I found this statement to be particularly offensive "Everything we older generations have done has taken our world to the brink of environmental collapse and nuclear brinkmanship". Many of us have worked really hard to try to turn around the use of nuclear anything and to raise awareness of the environment. I KNOW there are a lot of young people who are also working for these issues. But certainly not ALL, not any more than ALL of the older generation have just let it happen.
Blaming an entire generation for not producing a better result without understanding the forces that were devouring them is not a "bit ridiculous" it is insane.
<extreme snark coming>
Why don't we blame the serfs from the middle ages for not rebelling against the King? Those idiots should have formed the perfect Socialist geopolitical economy way back then so we could be living in Utopia now. /s
Yeah, let's piss on each other's generation and point fingers and blame one another while the banksters laugh their asses off.
EXACTLY - shows their paid PSY-OPDs are working, and like these Sociopaths and Psychopaths' - they do not face and take responsibility for their actions.
Like little children NOT caught out, "THEY" think they are being so clever "fooling Mummy & Daddy", and making M & Daddy part of their "game" and manipulating and CONROLLING M & Daddy.
STOP playing their game and be mature Adults, NOT GEN X or Millennium's or whatever stupid classification's some apply following the mantras of the day, but do BE thoughtfully PROACTIVE and as a human being, Community/communities, meld together and put time to excellent use.
My empathy understands why Caitlin has ranted somewhat in this email, she is dealing with these areas of mental and spiritual dysfunction everyday-the imbalances etc., but Caitlin do acknowledge that there are many human begins over centuries' who "fight the good fight" ALL their life.
Many raised with Religion being a solid part of our childhoods, which further blinds people to the evil within other human beings. I think this is WHY many Americans' are always preaching at others as though that is all that is required?
NO, God is testing us ALL to be practical and STOP the desecration of ALL the wonders of life and the fruitful World we have been given.
I didn't feel Caitlin's words were ridiculous at all. They hit me as completely true and completely justified. And note that I opened my comment with the words "From a demographic perspective." I did that for a reason. I shouldn't have to explain that reason, explain what "demographic perspective" means, or defend it. It's just factually true.
Speaking as Gen X, I've watched at least half my peers turn into horrible reactionaries (often liberal fascists, sometimes full on fascists). They're often WORSE than the worst stereotypes of boomers. And their schtick usually involves shitting on younger people, on millennials and Gen Z. I'm deeply ashamed of that segment of my generation and I call them out all the time.
So I fully appreciate what it's like to look around see people with their heads in the sand, or worse. And that's also why I'm very sensitive to people shitting on young people: years of fighting my peers who do it.
I said everything I said and I don't take it back. But thank you responding authentically and in good faith. I really mean that, it's appreciated. There's more I could say, but I'm not gonna. I'm more interested in building solidarity than being a debate bro.
It's ridiculous to claim that using "pronouns" and enabling the pharmaceutical industry to profit from turning confused young people into lifelong medical patients is "rewriting the rules" of empire.
I do not regret the choices I made given what I knew when I made those choices.
All this finger pointing and mea culpa accomplishes nothing. The banksters still steal from us and we don't even understand how they're doing it.
Hudson, Wolff, Varoufakis, Norton, Blumenthal, Good, Mate, Dore, Mercouris, Ritter, Christoforeu, Berletic, even Lira -- they lay it out there. And so few listen.
Rather they lie in the gutter and scream "not my fault; its my parents".
Certainly intergenerational, if one puts stock in such labels.
These unremarkable, yet remarkable, human beings were engaged in far more than typing, and talking, and trying.
They were the definition of Action Jackson.
I know that I, personally, have failed my children, my elders, my peers, miserably.
I knew/know what is the right thing to do, but I didn’t act on those impulses.
I didn’t/don’t have the courage. At least not yet.
I’ve been to prison, and I don’t relish the idea of going back.
I haven’t been willing to lay down my life for my beliefs, like some of my heroes, enumerated earlier, and I don’t know if I have the fortitude to do so.
But, I just can’t see how liberalism, or progressivism, or enlightenment are going to get me/us where we want to be.
I fear/feel that radicalism might be the only way out of this hellscape we’re enjoying.
Isn’t that what defined the fine folks I have referenced?
We, and I emphasize the young people, are really up against it.
The information/thought control going on is definitely radical, as I see it.
Way worse than the last century, when I was a youngster.
I think that it’s up to us old “wokesters” to pierce the propaganda/censorship veil for our progeny, by any, and all means at our disposal.
Maybe if we’re patient with them, they’ll be patient with us, too.
After all, we’re not adversaries/enemies, we’re allies.
Aren’t we?
I just know that I’ve got to get off my ass and DO something.
Maybe it’s old age, and a sense of maturity/mortality that motivates me.
Don’t want to go out knowing that I could have done more/better.
Maybe I’ve finally found the guts to emulate my heroes.
I’m not exactly sure why I went on this rant to you John.
I guess I just came to believe that this is the right place, at the right time.
I don't think Caitlin's words are ridiculous. She is not setting up one generation against the other. She is talking about cause and effect. What one generation did or didn't do will naturally affect the next. This is the law of cause and effect - it is not fate. Change the cause and the effect will change.
How else will a revolution happen? The Russian intelligentsia together with the peasantry changed the cause of events ( the grip of power, privilege and domination by the Czars ) resulting in the October Revolution.
Reply to Indu: "When I look at this awful trainwreck of a world we’re leaving to younger generations it infuriates me that older generations are constantly bitching at them." The post was fine before this. After this, it gets ridiculous. She seems to assume that all older people have done nothing to prevent this "trainwreck of a world" and she seems to think that everyone is always bitching at their kids. Well, some are, some aren't. When some people get really rich they appear to think that entitles them to start wars, stop bothering about alleviating poverty, shit all over their employees etc. Many of those rich people are not all that old. It is ridiculous to blame the mess in the world on people based on their age. Now if we were talking about one of those CEOs (age unknown) who had made in a few hours what it takes most people at least a year to earn, then I could see her point.
I’m FAR more of an activist than my 40-something daughter. I thought I’d taught her better than that. But much to my disappointment, she’s pretty self-involved; job, family, vacations, etc.
I’m proud of her in many ways but not in this respect.
"Yes, Caitlin's words ARE ridiculous because she does not see, like you, that the world is not made up of discrete generations. Rather, it is a continuum of newborns entering the world every minute of the day and old ones bowing out every minute of the day."
Ernesto, yours is the best reply to the article I have read. Caitlin is overwrought and frustrated. The world really is a mess.
Caitlin is taking self responsibility, albeit in a collective sense. You are still in a victim/victimizer mentality, which is one grade lower than self responsible.
I wouldnt say the entire post was ridiculous, but the part about blaming only older people is wrong. Far too many younger people have zero critic thinking, zero ideas of their own, and zero interest in having any. All they want to do is get along with the digital crowd, which if course is being completely puppeted by nasty extremist oligarchs like Peter Thiel, Bezos etc.
I think you took it personally because you still identify with "generations". Which is in itself an old generation concept, that humans are divided into identity tribes based upon gender, age, class, money, race, eye color, iq, etc.
I am not sure what you mean that I "identify" with "generations". I didn't take
Caitlin's post particularly personally. If I were 25, I think I would still find the post divisive and non productive. Maybe. When I was younger I had a different view of aging. I don't think people can be put into categories solely because of their age.
"From a demographic perspective, boomers absolutely deserve the flak they get"
FUCK YOU. Blame the victim why don't you.
Parade your superiority. Declare yourself so GD smart that you'd never have fallen for the propaganda -- while you get diverted from the cause of your problems and blame the Boomer. You are a sanctimonious little shit placing all "boomers" into a single category. This isn't arrogance speaking. This is me defending myself from your crap.
Are you someone who blames "all Jews" for the genocide in Gaza. Sure you are.
And the next thing you're going to tell me is "Zionism != Jew". Don't you see the hypocrisy?
And then you have the gall to declare you are speaking for all the 'younger generations'. Are you really so stupid that you don't know how propaganda works?
"Boomers", as a whole, are NOT criticizing younger groups.
THE OLIGARCHY IS HIRING INFLUENCERS TO MAKE YOU FALL FOR THE LIE.
The fact that you hate your parents is your problem. Deal with it.
Zionism != Jew. They are 2 entities that intersect - with mostly Israel representing that intersection.
If we get mathematical and start doing set theory, there are many other intersections and unions going on.
Here are some of the the entities - Jews, Israelis, Zionism, Christians.
Now take the intersections and unions and complements of the above entities and you will arrive at a much more nuanced perspective of all the relationships.
But people love simplifying relationships - they love reducing the complexities and nuances of the real world in order to be able to relate to certain viewpoints.
I see (in your other comments) you have chosen to promote the inter-generational conflict.
How disappointing, and how ugly. You may be 75, but you condemn your peers.
I don't disparage the young, but those who want to be sanctimonious and "better than everyone else" because you've chosen some artificially "more moral" paradigms and thus just divide us against one another rather than our true foe, the Oligarchy, you work for the Oligarchy. When they propose to cut Social Security and Medicare you will have played into their hands because you will have betrayed potential allies.
The people who choose Trump over Biden have felt the betrayal of Democratic leadership for decades. It finally became so obvious in 2016 that Trump was elected. Absolutely nothing has been done to heal those wounds. Rather you declare yourself to be more moral and choose to ascribe false goals to an entire generation.
Yes, I'm lashing out. I'm sick and tired of the self-satisfied smugness you and your kind represent. You declare yourself to be "good" and everyone else "bad". You offer no solutions to the problems we face or even suggestions as to what to do differently.
The Oligarchy loves people like you. You are their best defense.
Love this!!! And so true. One thing I do want to say tho is that T-rump voters are not the working class laborers that Me Too-ers like to believe. They were mostly white, educated, upwardly mobile middle class people who are mad at and afraid of anyone not just like them. Xenophobic, defensive and kowtowing. This was the predominant mind set of the crowd that allowed Hitler to come to power after the Weimar Republic proved unable to rule in the 30’s.
It is GREAT! GO John GO!!!! And thank you and thank you sir. The pent up rage I have after watching the country descend into the conspicuous consumption and self righteous narrative of the most narcissistic generation in decades is being dispelled by John’s “rants”.
Truly. But the yuppie zeitgeist is so dominant and so all pervasive, primarily because it is so corporate capitalist, that even those who aren’t yuppies participate in it. It’s not so much a matter of blame as a matter of accurate social and intellectual history. Thank you for your contribution.
These trigger reactions are actually signs that they habor internal trauma/guilt. THey did something to someone they don't want to talk or someone did something to them that they don't want to talk about.
I voted for Bernie. I believed in him. He turned out to be a shep-herder.
The DSA is similar.
My support for End Citizens United was funneled into campaign contributions for the Democrats.
The Oligarchy used to be afraid of the Middle Class, that is the only reason the Boomers were ever offered opportunities to better themselves. The Reagan came along and turned Americans against one another by denying educational opportunities for Boomers (and whoever) to voice their opinions.
The Oligarchy subscribed to the Powell Memo, which got him appointed to the Supreme Court.
They turned abortion into a "must-support" issue that they do nothing to protect. The Oligarchy is now anti-abortion because it feeds our need to support something good.
In the meantime, the Oligarchy is stealing from all Americans.
If you want to insist that you have the one and only solution and that everyone else is wrong, you'll recruit no one to your side. Feel good about your smug self-centered position and do nothing pro-active to fight the enemy.
This is brilliant—thank you. The Powell Memo—some call it a tantrum, the Koch brothers, Chaney, Murdock buying up US newspapers, the massively funded conservative think tanks, and PNAC all started in the late 70’s after Nixon was impeached. The conservatives knew that unless they destroyed the Democratic Party, no rethug would ever be elected again. They began then to put PNAC in place and they found willing compliance among the Wall Street yuppies—easy money, wealth beyond your wildest dreams, kill manufacturing and become a financialized economy where you make money by pressing a few computer buttons and lay off labor to increase your investment portfolio. And here we are. I say bring on the guillotine. 🤪
I'll repeat how I opened my comment: "From a demographic perspective."
The concentrated wealth and privilege enjoyed by boomers, demographically speaking, is a hard fact. A hard economic fact which is reflected culturally and politically.
I will not debate this issue with you or give a fucking inch on it. We're done here. Have a great weekend.
You seem to think that all boomers are well off. None of them are living on credit card debt. No boomer fears being thrown out of her home. Every boomer takes a trip to Vegas and gambles away thousands in a riotous party. /s
You have no clue about what you are talking about.
You are a tool of the Oligarchy. They fund you to sow dissension amongst the generations rather than seek solidarity against their greed.
Rot in your self-indulgent piety.
Any Gen-XYZ person who takes offense at my comments, ask yourself if you blame the boomers. If you do, you're too stupid to debate with. If you're willing to question the phony generational narrative, and willing to fight the true enemy -- the Oligarchy -- I embrace you.
If the establishment is good at nothing else, it has shown that it is very good at determining who can be bought off and who can be co-opted.
This is how fire-eating Sixties radicals were neutered into mild-mannered academics babbling about "change within the system". For that matter, this is how civil rights leaders, people who had done genuinely heroic things at one time, ended up becoming garden variety machine politicians.
Maybe. But you get tired out there. And things really had changed—a lot, from the Army McCarthy hearings to massive liberation of thought in the popular consciousness. That was about 15 to 25 for me. And after 1968 in Chicago I was exhausted! And after Nixon swept the election lots of us were. The country was backlashing, wanting a nice crook to run things while they sucked their thumbs. The middle class always triumphs, while those of us with a radical analysis do work in areas where we can have an impact—poverty, education, environment, farming—but as things rolled on into the 80’s and the Yuppies took over with their laptops, Volvos and designer coffee, THEN the empire managers went after what you call the “fire breathers” and just as McCarthy had done to the commies in the ‘50’s, they silenced the clear thinkers of the 60’s by threatening their livelihoods. And there was nobody, I mean NO BODY who would step up and champion social justice from among the Yuppie crowd. So quit blaming the 60’s generation. We did our job. About 10% of us. It’s the follow on generation that spurned our gains and ran off to Wall Street to suck at the teat of capitalism, never think twice about our oil wars and only worry about who would get voted off the island. A more useless narsi group of people have seldom walked the land. Maybe the 1890’s in Paris—-
Yes indeed. And really, we’re all blaming somebody, here on this thread. It’s one of the defining characteristics of this thread. Also, I eventually joined the mainstream in order to get a pension, becoming a teacher because I ran out energy to live on the edge all the time. And since it isn’t so much being a stock broker that is bad, as who you invest with, socially conscious stock brokers helped me get enough money to retire on at 68, before I tipped over. One can do good work from inside the belly of the beast, or did you forget your basic Mao? Or in your case, your meow Mao. 😺😸😻
My life is EXACTLY parallel to yours Susan except that I’m 79. And probably took way more acid than you did. We were a really amazing generation so we had to be discredited and that started by lumping the feckless Yuppie generation in with Boomers in the middle Raygun years. The Yuppies really are as you describe them and their birth times range from 1958 to about 1973. The oldest now is about 65. And what a bunch of whinny, Wall Street lovin’ corporate assholes this age group is. Your and my generation started in ‘44 and went to ‘58 and most of us are still kickin, still activists, still doing the dialectic, trying to keep the Empire from undoing ALL the liberations we helped bring about. Admittedly we were a small group in a sea of middle class wanna be’s but we had a hell of an impact. The myth maker elites just couldn’t have that so they lumped us all in with the bought and paid for Yuppies in order to besmirch our vision and our accomplishments. They’ve succeeded way too well, hence Paul’s kind of anger, but the young ‘uns, who are children of the Yuppies, are rejecting their parents greedy, frightened, maternalistic ways and are leading the New Revolution—and I for one salute them. I plan to stay alive for the next 20 years just to see what they can accomplish. If I can afford it!
Who doesn’t? She does incredibly good work trying to counter the narrative her generation and most of the middle class has bought into and seems to want to wallow in. She shines a bright light on it, and the cock roaches scramble!!!!
It was about this time that a large number of Psychiatric/mental hospitals were closed permanently, and community rules started to loosen, now Society MUST learn about Sociopathy and Psychopathy etc, and indeed take responsibility and deal with these negatives' forces in our World.
Exactly. People live their lives in bubbles of propaganda on facebook,Tiktok etc. They buy into the radical capitalist dystopia of Uber, AirBnB and they rest. They then all join in the privatization of the commons and of public resources, even down to the sidewalks, which they use as parking for private fake-“shared” mini motorbikes which they are renting from by venture capital companies who dont want to obey basic laws of order and dont want to pay on private land or buildings for parking their rental equipment.
These people dont think at all, they give approval to every shitty shiny thing pitched at them that is really meant to destroy them. And then they wonder why things are going wrong.
Definitely not an age issue. It’s a mass sleeping-wide-awake issue.
and everyone, young and old is into social media and staring at their phones while they are on the bus, walking down the street, at home......everywhere. I have looked over the shoulders of people on the bus scrolling through their phones and all they are looking at is ads. But they are totally engrossed in it. It is sad and a bit scary.
could be. I don't have data on my phone just so I won't be on it so much. I do read the news online now though, whereas previously I bought a newspaper and read it. Online news has better, maybe more honest reporting than paper these days
Socialism always breeds it's own Entitlement mentality. I too am antiWar since Vietnam, a democRat sponsored war. Then the rinoRat Bushies gave us the 20 Years Wars. Then Clintoons and Obamaites gave us ChiCom Corrupt Cesspool Equity USSA
Thank you Susan. The idea of "blame the boomers" has way too much traction. I refuse to be blamed for being naive. Unless you were there, you have no idea what the influences were. Ron Kovic's book "Born on the Fourth of July" is only a hint. The movie with Tom Cruise pounds home the consequences -- but only if you've read the book.
Me too, Susan. I'm now 83 and I can remember all the street-protests from the mid 50s on. I don't actually go to anywhere near as many these days, but I'm always sending off my signature on online protests.
And I certainly showed up for the Voice referendum - for all the good that did.
I remember trying to hand out how to vote YES slips and suddenly finding myself in a ding-dong battle with a man who'd just voted NO and wanted to tell me why.
My greyhound and I walked home in the rain after that encounter, with my tears mingling with the raindrops running down my cheeks - a hugely sad day, followed by an even more hugely sad evening.
It was almost enough to make me swear off going to street protests altogether - ALMOST!
I also feel really sad that my grandchildren will have such a shitty world to grow up in. I don't feel ashamed though or at fault. I know I have done as much as I could to change this situation. I just feel sad a lot.
Neither of my two children had kids, and I used to regret not having grandchildren.
But I can't help thinking nowadays that being a great-grand-stepmother to one young girl, & a grandaunt and a great-grandaunt to my three siblings' respective broods is enough to feel sad for. :-)
Same here Susan. My brother attended university in Ann Arbor, that bastion for liberalism, in the late ‘60’s/early 70’s. I learned as a teenager there what it was like to protest and have been doing so ever since. I’m 69 years old.
I am 75 and have protested every war. You have clearly misread what Caitlin said. If you are not guilty, fine. But 99% of Boomers like us are. If you don't want to be damned then don't disparage the young.
I think we need a society with rotating leadership. The reason our present leaders are so corrupt is because they have promoted the idea that their way of thinking and doing things is the best way. They get away with this in part because most of society sees having vast amounts of money as a positive rather than the negative that it is. If leaders could only lead for 6 months and had to carry on from previous leaders, it does have some potential to work better than what we have. I think it would not work to have a totally leaderless society. Maybe smaller groups that made their own decisions, then liaised with other small groups.
Were you there when we marched through San Francisco to try to prevent W's invasion of Iraq? Do you know the march even happened?
Yeah, I gave up on marches after 20 years of it not making a difference.
I concentrate on my "phone", (actually my laptop) because Wolff, Hudson and dozens of others are there giving me the knowledge I need to fight the Oligarchy.
It is so frustrating to me that no one recognizes the Oligarchy. Or that they think only Russians can be Oligarchs. That so many think Putin is "evil" because "he invaded Ukraine without any reason other than his greed". No one recognizes the huge economic advances made in China. No one understands the American Hegemony and how the same Oligarchy that is stealing from the "Global South" is also stealing from you.
Yeah. I'm a boomer. The Oligarchy found it necessary to pacify my generation because of FDR. The "Powell Memo" was a rallying cry for the Oligarchy to take back their positions of privilege. The assault isn't on any particular generation. The assault is on all of us who aren't members of the Oligarchy.
Yes the problem is they pretend they are not oligarchs and no one asks any questions. I was listening to a podcast with Peter Thiel, the billionaire tech oligarch, who is behind a zillion large companies like Facebook, Paypal, Palantir, AirBnB etc, and this guy kept asking about “the elite” being other people - professors, journalists teachers, but no not billionaires like him. Kept talking about himself as an ordinary guy and ranting about the market that will save us all. He was completely delusional about his status as an oligarch. And the host of the podcast was gutless and did not challenge him at all.
I mean how does someone like this even manage to hide that he is an oligarch and no one challenges his lie.
The older generation marched as activists when they were younger - WW1, Vietnam, Civil Rights, Korean War, Great Depression, unionization, etc.
The younger generation is marching now - Iraq, climate change, occupy wall street, Israel-Palestine, Yemen, BLM, etc.
It is the "younger people" of all generations (regardless of which generation it is) that are the "physical" activists. As these younger people grow older, they transform their activism in different ways.
Every generation keeps thinking that they marched more, rebelled more, protested more than future generations. Maybe your parents might feel that their generation was more active. Maybe the current "young" generation might feel one day when they grow older that their generation was more active than their future generation.
It's all a relative perspective.
The older generation thinks the present generation has been "dumbed down". (I agree BTW). My parent's generation probably thinks that my generation has been "dumbed down". I'm sure that when the TV came out, or computer video games, or whatever other technology - older generations thought the younger generation was "dumbed down" by the "new technology" of their children's generation. I'm sure that the present generation will think that the generation of their kids will have been "dumbed down" by whatever future technology (eg. AI, virtual reality, or bio-technology, etc.) comes about.
Unfortunately, I am ashamed to admit that I was too naive most of my life to even realize what was going on or to perceive and realize the forces of manipulation all around me.
Also, very few people have the courage to reproach their parents - even when they know that their parents are responsible for something morally wrong or corrupt. I do reproach my parents now - and that has led to the straining of bonds - but my conscience won't let me stay silent or be censored.
There have been many young people marching for Palestine. Also, I have been in many demos in the past years where young and old marched against various issues such as PEGIDA coming to Canada, police violence, the war in Iraq........
It does appear tp have become such a graveyard, DrWho.
Netanyahu totally rejects Palestine as a state. Against which we have the State of Palestine having been accepted as an observer state of the United Nations General Assembly in November 2012. As of 2 June 2023, 139 of the 193 United Nations (UN) member states have recognized the State of Palestine.
Now what does that mean, really. It means 139 countries favour Palestine as a state........... .....that was in 2012. Since then Israel has poured billions (donated by the US government) into securing support for all its dirty deeds, having owned every President since Johnson and almost every politician in the USA and has certainly been able to bring enough pressure (graft) to bear on most Western European states including Germany, all the White / Anglo / Christians and the 5-Eyes military compatriots (always itching for a war or two) like Australia and New Zealand, Canada and the UK.
BUT, please DO NOT DO A COUNT ON THE SAME RESULT TODAY. The local Zionist chapters in all countries have used their influence to graft further concessions from governments everywhere. It’s the way they work. Look at British Labor, running neck and neck with the Conservatived in the Israeli-grovelling stakes.
Australia the same, as are both Canada and New Zealand. And don't the Zionists love it. “We own the US" said Ariel Sharon. What he didn’t say was 'we own the rest of those weak Western countries as well', and they do.
So where to from here, one has to ask? What about the UN? Currently run by the US Veto. Now does that mean it is now also going to be controlled by Israel (also with a newly polished Veto as well) as they will not accept Palestine under any circumstances, so they say. You know, "the river to the sea" has been around as Israeli doctrine well before Netanyahu has his first plate of Matzoh Ball Soup when they first started to kill the British in 1945 and on, 745 British casualties listed in that time being the casualties for absolute British stupidity
Did those British learn anything from that? Yes, give it all to the Jews and 'let’s get rid of this Jewish problem’, skip all the drama and let’s go home….and they did.
The cause of all the trouble in the Middle East as Israel's grand "Eretz Israel" plan travels into parts of Lebanon, Iraq, Turkey, Kuwait, Palestine ( already done by US backed genocide), Saudi, Egypt and Jordan backed up by 400 nuclear weapons and, it goes without saying, with the now very pathetic and now totally unrespected US watching Israel's back. A unlimited partner in their crimes
who would have thought that? Well quite a few of us old folks to start. Oh wait, it is the young ones who are going to save us. Forgot. Getting old, you know. Those that are now old started all this when they were young. If we ever hope to get out of this mess, we cannot be setting up people against each other. We all have to work together in this.
I didn't start anything about Israel when I was young. I accepted though that the world somehow owed the Jews because of the Holocaust. I was encouraged to believe that the Jews (and sorry, I do mean Jews as a whole not Zionists) were saving themselves from some universal hatred by undefined "dark forces". Jews were Israel. Israel was Jews. Leon Uris wrote some inspiring books. Exodus and Mila 18. The Jews were heroes. I was encouraged to confuse fiction with reality.
OK, so I was duped. Hey, all you up-coming generations. I'm sorry as hell I was duped. Call me stupid if you want. Did it change anything? Do you feel better now?
Or are you wasting your anger blaming me while letting the Oligarchy fool you and stealing from you your heritage and your labor and your intellect.
Don't stupidly blame "the Jews" for your problems. They've now been set up as the fall guy just as they were set up to be the heroes for my generation.
You know who the criminals are. They are on the cover of Forbes.
Some ask why the rich should pay. Anyone who asks that question is stupid.
OTOH, how do you define "rich". Don't let the Oligarchy divert you from themselves. Today's bourgeoisie isn't the problem. "We're all middle-class now". It is the Oligarchy.
Completely agree with you. We are all constantly being gaslighted and propagandized by narratives that keep us subservient to the oligarchy. One day the narrative is "Jews are responsible for everything". Another day the narrative is "you are where you are in life because you are lazy, stupid, etc.".
The oligarchy (I call them the power elite) have so many narratives that they use to brainwash people so that the status quo can be maintained. The challenge is to break through all these narratives.
Which I think is good. After awhile, when there is SOOOOO much bullshit passing for information, people get wise to it and start to see the necessity for thinking for themselves. That’s when the revolution starts.
mostly I find Caitlin's writing to be right on, but this one I found to be not well thought out and really, kind of silly. Blaming the older generation for this mess makes no sense and also inhibits the potential for younger people to learn from older ones.
As a boomer and life long radical activist the struggle should not be seen as generational or about the failures of the older generations. Every generation has failed in its mission to fundamentally change society including that of our parents and our own. It’s a hard mountain to move. But we need to recognize that youth and elders should have a collaborative relationship and both can contribute. Elders can benefit from the fresh ideas and energy of the youth, and the youth can learn from the history and experience of the elders who led struggles in past decades, especially during more radical and hopeful times than now. And yes, I will criticize where I disagree regardless of how old you are.
Well said Ann. All these ways to divide people (as if they didn't already have enough ways) as X, Y, Z, millennial or boomer are just more of the same. Divide and rule.
well, you can't delete my comment, only your own. In my opinion, it is capitalism and the ensuing greed that has caused most of the world's problems. And people of all ages participate in capitalism. BUT it is those who have enough money to convince enough people to elect them who get into power and then struggle to hang onto that power by creating more wars, more poverty and encouraging consumption which is smothering (quite literally) our world. They make money from the wars, push questionable "solutions" to our environmental and climate problems (old and young alike do this). What they have in common is that they are money grubbers aka capitalists who will stop at very little to get more money into their bank accounts. Check out Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates and others.....
While I agree with the gist of what you are saying and I myself am a militant Anti-Capitalist, I wonder if the root of all these problems is more than just the "system of Capitalism".
I mean, greed is universal - with or without Capitalism (as borne out from history). And if Capitalism were somehow eradicated, wouldn't we still have lots of problems? (I surmise this from looking at humanity's historical record).
Yes, I do agree with you and believe that "Capitalism" has arguably been the WORST system that we have come up with - one that has done more damage than any other system in human history (IMHO).
To me capitalism is like a gun—it isn’t the gun that kills, it’s the person who aims and fires the gun. No system will “work” unless those who participate in it take responsibility for themselves, their choices, their consequences. Self examination is incredibly difficult but I notice it’s getting more popular here. I commend Caitlin for stirring up this hornet’s nest with her column. We seem to be beginning to see the humanitarian light of Aquarius. Day break at last. It’s been a long cold 20 years!!!
perhaps. I think maybe capitalism came about because of the greed of some people to have more power. It would be interesting if we could figure out why people even need or want to have that much power. Something in their childhood? something more general in our whole society?. there is so much beauty in the natural world, I don't really understand why people want more more more of everything else all the time. Is it how we are educated?
Unfortunately some of those young are being groomed as we speak to be the new empire managers. Most of the young are alright, but it only takes a few of them to pick up the levers and keep the rotten machine going.
"Israel apologists would have you believe there’s been a sudden worldwide emergence of “Hamas supporters” everywhere rather than a normal and entirely predictable worldwide opposition to genocide."
This. And it gives me hope that there is a growing opposition to genocide. As Caitlin says, "Israel has lost the argument... Time for something new." Hmmm new? How about we never allow this sort of tragedy to happen again?
"....never allow this sort of tragedy to happen again?" They said that in 1945. It was a great idea then and it's a great idea now, but how do you do that without regulating the whole population into a (metaphorical) prison?
Some of us old people have been organizing and marching for change, against war, against climate destruction, against the pollution of oceans for years and years. I am now 78 and started demonstrating against Vietnam when I was 20. I have objected to every war since then and so have many other people my age. Even people in these comments. It has always been the elite, the ones who took it upon themselves to rule us, who have declared the wars, taken away the healthcare, started the foodbanks rather than give a basic minimum wage. We can only hope that the young people of today have not bought into the idea that big is best, rich is success, war will save us. AND I have a son who has often told his friends that I am way more radical than he is. So don't go blaming this mess on the entire older generation and don't naively put your hopes on a group of young people who have been brought up with privilege and sometimes entitlement.
From a demographic perspective, boomers absolutely deserve the flak they get.
But I will always say that the ones who were actually activists in 60s... Well some of them sold out, you can't deny that... But those who didn't sell out are still marching and organising and mutual-aiding at our sides. They're our revered elders, and I mean literally revered.
But it's funny... When I bring up my lifelong track record (Gen X here) of being antiwar and an activist to remind people that we have always existed, always been fighting... I have a very different tone than you demonstrate. For example, I don't feel a need to parade my activist CV. And I would never DREAM of saying something like "We can only hope that the young people of today have not bought into the idea that big is best, rich is success, war will save us." That's so condescending, man. Me, I'm literally cheering on young people and doing everything I can to have their backs, because I know them, I see them, I literally learn from them every day.
If you haven't tuned me out yet... A risk I'm willing to take...
I didn't set out to be so critical. But it happened, as I went back and reread your words. I'm not taking it back and I'm not changing my tone. I think my words need to stand. I really don't think you meant to come off the way I read you. But younger people are very sensitive to even a scent of boomer arrogance and with good reason. This was more a comradely criticism than an attack. Maybe take this moment to listen to younger people, and to have our backs, rather than criticise us.
I was replying to Caitlin's post which was a bit ridiculous, I thought. Because I have remained an activist, I have, of course met many young people who are involved in trying to get rid of racism, nazism, etc. But I have also observed and talked with a lot of young people, as well as people my age and all ages in between who do not seem to be aware of what is happening in the world or why. I am sorry to have come off sounding as if I am opposing young people. I found this statement to be particularly offensive "Everything we older generations have done has taken our world to the brink of environmental collapse and nuclear brinkmanship". Many of us have worked really hard to try to turn around the use of nuclear anything and to raise awareness of the environment. I KNOW there are a lot of young people who are also working for these issues. But certainly not ALL, not any more than ALL of the older generation have just let it happen.
FWIW: I find comfort in your position.
I agree with you.
Blaming an entire generation for not producing a better result without understanding the forces that were devouring them is not a "bit ridiculous" it is insane.
<extreme snark coming>
Why don't we blame the serfs from the middle ages for not rebelling against the King? Those idiots should have formed the perfect Socialist geopolitical economy way back then so we could be living in Utopia now. /s
Yeah, let's piss on each other's generation and point fingers and blame one another while the banksters laugh their asses off.
EXACTLY - shows their paid PSY-OPDs are working, and like these Sociopaths and Psychopaths' - they do not face and take responsibility for their actions.
Like little children NOT caught out, "THEY" think they are being so clever "fooling Mummy & Daddy", and making M & Daddy part of their "game" and manipulating and CONROLLING M & Daddy.
STOP playing their game and be mature Adults, NOT GEN X or Millennium's or whatever stupid classification's some apply following the mantras of the day, but do BE thoughtfully PROACTIVE and as a human being, Community/communities, meld together and put time to excellent use.
My empathy understands why Caitlin has ranted somewhat in this email, she is dealing with these areas of mental and spiritual dysfunction everyday-the imbalances etc., but Caitlin do acknowledge that there are many human begins over centuries' who "fight the good fight" ALL their life.
Many raised with Religion being a solid part of our childhoods, which further blinds people to the evil within other human beings. I think this is WHY many Americans' are always preaching at others as though that is all that is required?
NO, God is testing us ALL to be practical and STOP the desecration of ALL the wonders of life and the fruitful World we have been given.
adult. A dolt. YOu bet your arse they are laughing. Even I find it somewhat amusing.
I didn't feel Caitlin's words were ridiculous at all. They hit me as completely true and completely justified. And note that I opened my comment with the words "From a demographic perspective." I did that for a reason. I shouldn't have to explain that reason, explain what "demographic perspective" means, or defend it. It's just factually true.
Speaking as Gen X, I've watched at least half my peers turn into horrible reactionaries (often liberal fascists, sometimes full on fascists). They're often WORSE than the worst stereotypes of boomers. And their schtick usually involves shitting on younger people, on millennials and Gen Z. I'm deeply ashamed of that segment of my generation and I call them out all the time.
So I fully appreciate what it's like to look around see people with their heads in the sand, or worse. And that's also why I'm very sensitive to people shitting on young people: years of fighting my peers who do it.
I said everything I said and I don't take it back. But thank you responding authentically and in good faith. I really mean that, it's appreciated. There's more I could say, but I'm not gonna. I'm more interested in building solidarity than being a debate bro.
I sincerely hope you manage to be successful in building solidarity.
I'm 80 and I wish you well!
It's ridiculous to claim that using "pronouns" and enabling the pharmaceutical industry to profit from turning confused young people into lifelong medical patients is "rewriting the rules" of empire.
who said it was?
Very well said Ernesto.
I can say that I regret not knowing what to do.
I do not regret the choices I made given what I knew when I made those choices.
All this finger pointing and mea culpa accomplishes nothing. The banksters still steal from us and we don't even understand how they're doing it.
Hudson, Wolff, Varoufakis, Norton, Blumenthal, Good, Mate, Dore, Mercouris, Ritter, Christoforeu, Berletic, even Lira -- they lay it out there. And so few listen.
Rather they lie in the gutter and scream "not my fault; its my parents".
Hi John.
I’ve got a list of names too.
Norman Morrison.
Roger LaPorte.
Daniel Berrigan.
Phillip Berrigan.
Howard Zinn.
Mitch Snyder.
Che Guevara.
Rachel Corrie.
Abu Akleh.
Representative, although by no means exhaustive.
Certainly intergenerational, if one puts stock in such labels.
These unremarkable, yet remarkable, human beings were engaged in far more than typing, and talking, and trying.
They were the definition of Action Jackson.
I know that I, personally, have failed my children, my elders, my peers, miserably.
I knew/know what is the right thing to do, but I didn’t act on those impulses.
I didn’t/don’t have the courage. At least not yet.
I’ve been to prison, and I don’t relish the idea of going back.
I haven’t been willing to lay down my life for my beliefs, like some of my heroes, enumerated earlier, and I don’t know if I have the fortitude to do so.
But, I just can’t see how liberalism, or progressivism, or enlightenment are going to get me/us where we want to be.
I fear/feel that radicalism might be the only way out of this hellscape we’re enjoying.
Isn’t that what defined the fine folks I have referenced?
We, and I emphasize the young people, are really up against it.
The information/thought control going on is definitely radical, as I see it.
Way worse than the last century, when I was a youngster.
I think that it’s up to us old “wokesters” to pierce the propaganda/censorship veil for our progeny, by any, and all means at our disposal.
Maybe if we’re patient with them, they’ll be patient with us, too.
After all, we’re not adversaries/enemies, we’re allies.
Aren’t we?
I just know that I’ve got to get off my ass and DO something.
Maybe it’s old age, and a sense of maturity/mortality that motivates me.
Don’t want to go out knowing that I could have done more/better.
Maybe I’ve finally found the guts to emulate my heroes.
I’m not exactly sure why I went on this rant to you John.
I guess I just came to believe that this is the right place, at the right time.
Put off what needs to be done long enough.
The words “be the change”comes into my head.
Thanks for listening, and thanks for the list.
It got me thinkin’ and movin’.
Funny how those things go sometimes, huh?
Then why don't you take some self responsibility and find out how they are doing it.
Hello friends,
I don't think Caitlin's words are ridiculous. She is not setting up one generation against the other. She is talking about cause and effect. What one generation did or didn't do will naturally affect the next. This is the law of cause and effect - it is not fate. Change the cause and the effect will change.
How else will a revolution happen? The Russian intelligentsia together with the peasantry changed the cause of events ( the grip of power, privilege and domination by the Czars ) resulting in the October Revolution.
This is also what Che did.
Reply to Indu: "When I look at this awful trainwreck of a world we’re leaving to younger generations it infuriates me that older generations are constantly bitching at them." The post was fine before this. After this, it gets ridiculous. She seems to assume that all older people have done nothing to prevent this "trainwreck of a world" and she seems to think that everyone is always bitching at their kids. Well, some are, some aren't. When some people get really rich they appear to think that entitles them to start wars, stop bothering about alleviating poverty, shit all over their employees etc. Many of those rich people are not all that old. It is ridiculous to blame the mess in the world on people based on their age. Now if we were talking about one of those CEOs (age unknown) who had made in a few hours what it takes most people at least a year to earn, then I could see her point.
Hi Che
I’m FAR more of an activist than my 40-something daughter. I thought I’d taught her better than that. But much to my disappointment, she’s pretty self-involved; job, family, vacations, etc.
I’m proud of her in many ways but not in this respect.
"Yes, Caitlin's words ARE ridiculous because she does not see, like you, that the world is not made up of discrete generations. Rather, it is a continuum of newborns entering the world every minute of the day and old ones bowing out every minute of the day."
Ernesto, yours is the best reply to the article I have read. Caitlin is overwrought and frustrated. The world really is a mess.
Caitlin is taking self responsibility, albeit in a collective sense. You are still in a victim/victimizer mentality, which is one grade lower than self responsible.
I wouldnt say the entire post was ridiculous, but the part about blaming only older people is wrong. Far too many younger people have zero critic thinking, zero ideas of their own, and zero interest in having any. All they want to do is get along with the digital crowd, which if course is being completely puppeted by nasty extremist oligarchs like Peter Thiel, Bezos etc.
I think you took it personally because you still identify with "generations". Which is in itself an old generation concept, that humans are divided into identity tribes based upon gender, age, class, money, race, eye color, iq, etc.
I am not sure what you mean that I "identify" with "generations". I didn't take
Caitlin's post particularly personally. If I were 25, I think I would still find the post divisive and non productive. Maybe. When I was younger I had a different view of aging. I don't think people can be put into categories solely because of their age.
Thank you.
"From a demographic perspective, boomers absolutely deserve the flak they get"
FUCK YOU. Blame the victim why don't you.
Parade your superiority. Declare yourself so GD smart that you'd never have fallen for the propaganda -- while you get diverted from the cause of your problems and blame the Boomer. You are a sanctimonious little shit placing all "boomers" into a single category. This isn't arrogance speaking. This is me defending myself from your crap.
Are you someone who blames "all Jews" for the genocide in Gaza. Sure you are.
And the next thing you're going to tell me is "Zionism != Jew". Don't you see the hypocrisy?
And then you have the gall to declare you are speaking for all the 'younger generations'. Are you really so stupid that you don't know how propaganda works?
"Boomers", as a whole, are NOT criticizing younger groups.
THE OLIGARCHY IS HIRING INFLUENCERS TO MAKE YOU FALL FOR THE LIE.
The fact that you hate your parents is your problem. Deal with it.
Zionism != Jew. They are 2 entities that intersect - with mostly Israel representing that intersection.
If we get mathematical and start doing set theory, there are many other intersections and unions going on.
Here are some of the the entities - Jews, Israelis, Zionism, Christians.
Now take the intersections and unions and complements of the above entities and you will arrive at a much more nuanced perspective of all the relationships.
But people love simplifying relationships - they love reducing the complexities and nuances of the real world in order to be able to relate to certain viewpoints.
John, be quiet. Compose yourself. You are lashing out. It is ugly.
I see (in your other comments) you have chosen to promote the inter-generational conflict.
How disappointing, and how ugly. You may be 75, but you condemn your peers.
I don't disparage the young, but those who want to be sanctimonious and "better than everyone else" because you've chosen some artificially "more moral" paradigms and thus just divide us against one another rather than our true foe, the Oligarchy, you work for the Oligarchy. When they propose to cut Social Security and Medicare you will have played into their hands because you will have betrayed potential allies.
The people who choose Trump over Biden have felt the betrayal of Democratic leadership for decades. It finally became so obvious in 2016 that Trump was elected. Absolutely nothing has been done to heal those wounds. Rather you declare yourself to be more moral and choose to ascribe false goals to an entire generation.
Yes, I'm lashing out. I'm sick and tired of the self-satisfied smugness you and your kind represent. You declare yourself to be "good" and everyone else "bad". You offer no solutions to the problems we face or even suggestions as to what to do differently.
The Oligarchy loves people like you. You are their best defense.
Billionaires are taking over the world: How 5 richest men doubled wealth while 5 billion got poorer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHmTCuCCMV8
Love this!!! And so true. One thing I do want to say tho is that T-rump voters are not the working class laborers that Me Too-ers like to believe. They were mostly white, educated, upwardly mobile middle class people who are mad at and afraid of anyone not just like them. Xenophobic, defensive and kowtowing. This was the predominant mind set of the crowd that allowed Hitler to come to power after the Weimar Republic proved unable to rule in the 30’s.
It is GREAT! GO John GO!!!! And thank you and thank you sir. The pent up rage I have after watching the country descend into the conspicuous consumption and self righteous narrative of the most narcissistic generation in decades is being dispelled by John’s “rants”.
Hahahahaha—the fact you hate your parents….! That does seem the problem, doesn’t it. The yuppies are pitiful.
I refuse to blame all yuppies or all of any generation or any group.
However, Paul has made it clear that he has a problem with all Boomers and the only reason that can be is because he hates his parents.
Truly. But the yuppie zeitgeist is so dominant and so all pervasive, primarily because it is so corporate capitalist, that even those who aren’t yuppies participate in it. It’s not so much a matter of blame as a matter of accurate social and intellectual history. Thank you for your contribution.
These trigger reactions are actually signs that they habor internal trauma/guilt. THey did something to someone they don't want to talk or someone did something to them that they don't want to talk about.
I voted for Bernie. I believed in him. He turned out to be a shep-herder.
The DSA is similar.
My support for End Citizens United was funneled into campaign contributions for the Democrats.
The Oligarchy used to be afraid of the Middle Class, that is the only reason the Boomers were ever offered opportunities to better themselves. The Reagan came along and turned Americans against one another by denying educational opportunities for Boomers (and whoever) to voice their opinions.
The Oligarchy subscribed to the Powell Memo, which got him appointed to the Supreme Court.
They turned abortion into a "must-support" issue that they do nothing to protect. The Oligarchy is now anti-abortion because it feeds our need to support something good.
In the meantime, the Oligarchy is stealing from all Americans.
If you want to insist that you have the one and only solution and that everyone else is wrong, you'll recruit no one to your side. Feel good about your smug self-centered position and do nothing pro-active to fight the enemy.
You are not Christian Smalls.
This is brilliant—thank you. The Powell Memo—some call it a tantrum, the Koch brothers, Chaney, Murdock buying up US newspapers, the massively funded conservative think tanks, and PNAC all started in the late 70’s after Nixon was impeached. The conservatives knew that unless they destroyed the Democratic Party, no rethug would ever be elected again. They began then to put PNAC in place and they found willing compliance among the Wall Street yuppies—easy money, wealth beyond your wildest dreams, kill manufacturing and become a financialized economy where you make money by pressing a few computer buttons and lay off labor to increase your investment portfolio. And here we are. I say bring on the guillotine. 🤪
BS. Most of the Boomers who protested war in the 60s are now progenocide.
How would you know. You clearly missed the boat in the 60’s—and you’re clearly missing it now.
I didn't miss the boat Jeano. Make sense or be quiet.
I disagree. The young are antigenocide. Boomers were antiwar in the 60s. Let us hope the young don't forget like we did. I am 75.
I'll repeat how I opened my comment: "From a demographic perspective."
The concentrated wealth and privilege enjoyed by boomers, demographically speaking, is a hard fact. A hard economic fact which is reflected culturally and politically.
I will not debate this issue with you or give a fucking inch on it. We're done here. Have a great weekend.
Fuck you again. You little shit.
Who provided you with those "facts"?
You seem to think that all boomers are well off. None of them are living on credit card debt. No boomer fears being thrown out of her home. Every boomer takes a trip to Vegas and gambles away thousands in a riotous party. /s
You have no clue about what you are talking about.
You are a tool of the Oligarchy. They fund you to sow dissension amongst the generations rather than seek solidarity against their greed.
Rot in your self-indulgent piety.
Any Gen-XYZ person who takes offense at my comments, ask yourself if you blame the boomers. If you do, you're too stupid to debate with. If you're willing to question the phony generational narrative, and willing to fight the true enemy -- the Oligarchy -- I embrace you.
“Concentrated wealth and privilege” !!!???
Hey , somebody forgot mine! 🤣🤣🤣
If the establishment is good at nothing else, it has shown that it is very good at determining who can be bought off and who can be co-opted.
This is how fire-eating Sixties radicals were neutered into mild-mannered academics babbling about "change within the system". For that matter, this is how civil rights leaders, people who had done genuinely heroic things at one time, ended up becoming garden variety machine politicians.
Absolutely 💯 💯 💯 💯 💯 💯
Maybe. But you get tired out there. And things really had changed—a lot, from the Army McCarthy hearings to massive liberation of thought in the popular consciousness. That was about 15 to 25 for me. And after 1968 in Chicago I was exhausted! And after Nixon swept the election lots of us were. The country was backlashing, wanting a nice crook to run things while they sucked their thumbs. The middle class always triumphs, while those of us with a radical analysis do work in areas where we can have an impact—poverty, education, environment, farming—but as things rolled on into the 80’s and the Yuppies took over with their laptops, Volvos and designer coffee, THEN the empire managers went after what you call the “fire breathers” and just as McCarthy had done to the commies in the ‘50’s, they silenced the clear thinkers of the 60’s by threatening their livelihoods. And there was nobody, I mean NO BODY who would step up and champion social justice from among the Yuppie crowd. So quit blaming the 60’s generation. We did our job. About 10% of us. It’s the follow on generation that spurned our gains and ran off to Wall Street to suck at the teat of capitalism, never think twice about our oil wars and only worry about who would get voted off the island. A more useless narsi group of people have seldom walked the land. Maybe the 1890’s in Paris—-
I'm not "blaming" anyone, although I note that Jerry Rubin ended up a stockbroker, lol.
Yes indeed. And really, we’re all blaming somebody, here on this thread. It’s one of the defining characteristics of this thread. Also, I eventually joined the mainstream in order to get a pension, becoming a teacher because I ran out energy to live on the edge all the time. And since it isn’t so much being a stock broker that is bad, as who you invest with, socially conscious stock brokers helped me get enough money to retire on at 68, before I tipped over. One can do good work from inside the belly of the beast, or did you forget your basic Mao? Or in your case, your meow Mao. 😺😸😻
My life is EXACTLY parallel to yours Susan except that I’m 79. And probably took way more acid than you did. We were a really amazing generation so we had to be discredited and that started by lumping the feckless Yuppie generation in with Boomers in the middle Raygun years. The Yuppies really are as you describe them and their birth times range from 1958 to about 1973. The oldest now is about 65. And what a bunch of whinny, Wall Street lovin’ corporate assholes this age group is. Your and my generation started in ‘44 and went to ‘58 and most of us are still kickin, still activists, still doing the dialectic, trying to keep the Empire from undoing ALL the liberations we helped bring about. Admittedly we were a small group in a sea of middle class wanna be’s but we had a hell of an impact. The myth maker elites just couldn’t have that so they lumped us all in with the bought and paid for Yuppies in order to besmirch our vision and our accomplishments. They’ve succeeded way too well, hence Paul’s kind of anger, but the young ‘uns, who are children of the Yuppies, are rejecting their parents greedy, frightened, maternalistic ways and are leading the New Revolution—and I for one salute them. I plan to stay alive for the next 20 years just to see what they can accomplish. If I can afford it!
Thank you. Born in 1949 here. I stand by Caitlin.
Who doesn’t? She does incredibly good work trying to counter the narrative her generation and most of the middle class has bought into and seems to want to wallow in. She shines a bright light on it, and the cock roaches scramble!!!!
Never stop doing psychedelics :)
There are greedy people in every generation. That is why we have disaster capitalism.
Che, thanks for pointing out that some of us are STILL hippies.
Redneck hippie? Yes, it’s possible to be one and I’m living proof 😉
Don’t always pay attention to Mike Fish.
He’s kind of a temperamental sort, occasionally.
How’s your fingers???
Sorry.
It was about this time that a large number of Psychiatric/mental hospitals were closed permanently, and community rules started to loosen, now Society MUST learn about Sociopathy and Psychopathy etc, and indeed take responsibility and deal with these negatives' forces in our World.
Exactly. People live their lives in bubbles of propaganda on facebook,Tiktok etc. They buy into the radical capitalist dystopia of Uber, AirBnB and they rest. They then all join in the privatization of the commons and of public resources, even down to the sidewalks, which they use as parking for private fake-“shared” mini motorbikes which they are renting from by venture capital companies who dont want to obey basic laws of order and dont want to pay on private land or buildings for parking their rental equipment.
These people dont think at all, they give approval to every shitty shiny thing pitched at them that is really meant to destroy them. And then they wonder why things are going wrong.
Definitely not an age issue. It’s a mass sleeping-wide-awake issue.
and everyone, young and old is into social media and staring at their phones while they are on the bus, walking down the street, at home......everywhere. I have looked over the shoulders of people on the bus scrolling through their phones and all they are looking at is ads. But they are totally engrossed in it. It is sad and a bit scary.
A pair of comments:
1. I also think people spend too much time on their phones.
2. A lot of the time I spend on mine is reading things that I used to in print form--books and newspapers. Is this the same for a lot of other people?
could be. I don't have data on my phone just so I won't be on it so much. I do read the news online now though, whereas previously I bought a newspaper and read it. Online news has better, maybe more honest reporting than paper these days
Well said Kudjoe!
I am near your age Susan and I feel the same as you do.
Have worked long and hard at making the world a better place.
Socialism always breeds it's own Entitlement mentality. I too am antiWar since Vietnam, a democRat sponsored war. Then the rinoRat Bushies gave us the 20 Years Wars. Then Clintoons and Obamaites gave us ChiCom Corrupt Cesspool Equity USSA
Agree do not blame the entire older generation. Likewise do not put your trust in the entire younger generation. A very naive proposition all round.
Thank you Susan. The idea of "blame the boomers" has way too much traction. I refuse to be blamed for being naive. Unless you were there, you have no idea what the influences were. Ron Kovic's book "Born on the Fourth of July" is only a hint. The movie with Tom Cruise pounds home the consequences -- but only if you've read the book.
Me too, Susan. I'm now 83 and I can remember all the street-protests from the mid 50s on. I don't actually go to anywhere near as many these days, but I'm always sending off my signature on online protests.
And I certainly showed up for the Voice referendum - for all the good that did.
I remember trying to hand out how to vote YES slips and suddenly finding myself in a ding-dong battle with a man who'd just voted NO and wanted to tell me why.
My greyhound and I walked home in the rain after that encounter, with my tears mingling with the raindrops running down my cheeks - a hugely sad day, followed by an even more hugely sad evening.
It was almost enough to make me swear off going to street protests altogether - ALMOST!
I also feel really sad that my grandchildren will have such a shitty world to grow up in. I don't feel ashamed though or at fault. I know I have done as much as I could to change this situation. I just feel sad a lot.
Neither of my two children had kids, and I used to regret not having grandchildren.
But I can't help thinking nowadays that being a great-grand-stepmother to one young girl, & a grandaunt and a great-grandaunt to my three siblings' respective broods is enough to feel sad for. :-)
Same here Susan. My brother attended university in Ann Arbor, that bastion for liberalism, in the late ‘60’s/early 70’s. I learned as a teenager there what it was like to protest and have been doing so ever since. I’m 69 years old.
75 here. Protested in Berkeley.
That OTHER bastion of liberalism 🙂
I am 75 and have protested every war. You have clearly misread what Caitlin said. If you are not guilty, fine. But 99% of Boomers like us are. If you don't want to be damned then don't disparage the young.
I am not sure who you are replying to or what you are meaning.
agreed.
All of this is caused by corruption in our systems.
Help us build a LEADERLESS society. We don't need leaders anymore. They are the source point of most of our corruption.
Like this: https://joshketry.substack.com/p/help-lets-build-a-new-system-that
I think we need a society with rotating leadership. The reason our present leaders are so corrupt is because they have promoted the idea that their way of thinking and doing things is the best way. They get away with this in part because most of society sees having vast amounts of money as a positive rather than the negative that it is. If leaders could only lead for 6 months and had to carry on from previous leaders, it does have some potential to work better than what we have. I think it would not work to have a totally leaderless society. Maybe smaller groups that made their own decisions, then liaised with other small groups.
Were you there when we marched through San Francisco to try to prevent W's invasion of Iraq? Do you know the march even happened?
Yeah, I gave up on marches after 20 years of it not making a difference.
I concentrate on my "phone", (actually my laptop) because Wolff, Hudson and dozens of others are there giving me the knowledge I need to fight the Oligarchy.
It is so frustrating to me that no one recognizes the Oligarchy. Or that they think only Russians can be Oligarchs. That so many think Putin is "evil" because "he invaded Ukraine without any reason other than his greed". No one recognizes the huge economic advances made in China. No one understands the American Hegemony and how the same Oligarchy that is stealing from the "Global South" is also stealing from you.
Yeah. I'm a boomer. The Oligarchy found it necessary to pacify my generation because of FDR. The "Powell Memo" was a rallying cry for the Oligarchy to take back their positions of privilege. The assault isn't on any particular generation. The assault is on all of us who aren't members of the Oligarchy.
Yes the problem is they pretend they are not oligarchs and no one asks any questions. I was listening to a podcast with Peter Thiel, the billionaire tech oligarch, who is behind a zillion large companies like Facebook, Paypal, Palantir, AirBnB etc, and this guy kept asking about “the elite” being other people - professors, journalists teachers, but no not billionaires like him. Kept talking about himself as an ordinary guy and ranting about the market that will save us all. He was completely delusional about his status as an oligarch. And the host of the podcast was gutless and did not challenge him at all.
I mean how does someone like this even manage to hide that he is an oligarch and no one challenges his lie.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Thiel
The older generation marched as activists when they were younger - WW1, Vietnam, Civil Rights, Korean War, Great Depression, unionization, etc.
The younger generation is marching now - Iraq, climate change, occupy wall street, Israel-Palestine, Yemen, BLM, etc.
It is the "younger people" of all generations (regardless of which generation it is) that are the "physical" activists. As these younger people grow older, they transform their activism in different ways.
Every generation keeps thinking that they marched more, rebelled more, protested more than future generations. Maybe your parents might feel that their generation was more active. Maybe the current "young" generation might feel one day when they grow older that their generation was more active than their future generation.
It's all a relative perspective.
The older generation thinks the present generation has been "dumbed down". (I agree BTW). My parent's generation probably thinks that my generation has been "dumbed down". I'm sure that when the TV came out, or computer video games, or whatever other technology - older generations thought the younger generation was "dumbed down" by the "new technology" of their children's generation. I'm sure that the present generation will think that the generation of their kids will have been "dumbed down" by whatever future technology (eg. AI, virtual reality, or bio-technology, etc.) comes about.
Unfortunately, I am ashamed to admit that I was too naive most of my life to even realize what was going on or to perceive and realize the forces of manipulation all around me.
Also, very few people have the courage to reproach their parents - even when they know that their parents are responsible for something morally wrong or corrupt. I do reproach my parents now - and that has led to the straining of bonds - but my conscience won't let me stay silent or be censored.
There have been many young people marching for Palestine. Also, I have been in many demos in the past years where young and old marched against various issues such as PEGIDA coming to Canada, police violence, the war in Iraq........
Who would have ever thought the concentration camp called Gaza would become the graveyard of the western empire and everything it stands for?
It does appear tp have become such a graveyard, DrWho.
Netanyahu totally rejects Palestine as a state. Against which we have the State of Palestine having been accepted as an observer state of the United Nations General Assembly in November 2012. As of 2 June 2023, 139 of the 193 United Nations (UN) member states have recognized the State of Palestine.
Now what does that mean, really. It means 139 countries favour Palestine as a state........... .....that was in 2012. Since then Israel has poured billions (donated by the US government) into securing support for all its dirty deeds, having owned every President since Johnson and almost every politician in the USA and has certainly been able to bring enough pressure (graft) to bear on most Western European states including Germany, all the White / Anglo / Christians and the 5-Eyes military compatriots (always itching for a war or two) like Australia and New Zealand, Canada and the UK.
BUT, please DO NOT DO A COUNT ON THE SAME RESULT TODAY. The local Zionist chapters in all countries have used their influence to graft further concessions from governments everywhere. It’s the way they work. Look at British Labor, running neck and neck with the Conservatived in the Israeli-grovelling stakes.
Australia the same, as are both Canada and New Zealand. And don't the Zionists love it. “We own the US" said Ariel Sharon. What he didn’t say was 'we own the rest of those weak Western countries as well', and they do.
So where to from here, one has to ask? What about the UN? Currently run by the US Veto. Now does that mean it is now also going to be controlled by Israel (also with a newly polished Veto as well) as they will not accept Palestine under any circumstances, so they say. You know, "the river to the sea" has been around as Israeli doctrine well before Netanyahu has his first plate of Matzoh Ball Soup when they first started to kill the British in 1945 and on, 745 British casualties listed in that time being the casualties for absolute British stupidity
Did those British learn anything from that? Yes, give it all to the Jews and 'let’s get rid of this Jewish problem’, skip all the drama and let’s go home….and they did.
The cause of all the trouble in the Middle East as Israel's grand "Eretz Israel" plan travels into parts of Lebanon, Iraq, Turkey, Kuwait, Palestine ( already done by US backed genocide), Saudi, Egypt and Jordan backed up by 400 nuclear weapons and, it goes without saying, with the now very pathetic and now totally unrespected US watching Israel's back. A unlimited partner in their crimes
A situation of their own making
Well said!
You perhaps mean the moral graveyard of The West.
Their capacities for industry and state security were lost with The Last Proxy War.
Keynesian Militarism is all they have on offer.
https://les7eb.substack.com/p/genocide-and-economics
Very well said!
who would have thought that? Well quite a few of us old folks to start. Oh wait, it is the young ones who are going to save us. Forgot. Getting old, you know. Those that are now old started all this when they were young. If we ever hope to get out of this mess, we cannot be setting up people against each other. We all have to work together in this.
I didn't start anything about Israel when I was young. I accepted though that the world somehow owed the Jews because of the Holocaust. I was encouraged to believe that the Jews (and sorry, I do mean Jews as a whole not Zionists) were saving themselves from some universal hatred by undefined "dark forces". Jews were Israel. Israel was Jews. Leon Uris wrote some inspiring books. Exodus and Mila 18. The Jews were heroes. I was encouraged to confuse fiction with reality.
OK, so I was duped. Hey, all you up-coming generations. I'm sorry as hell I was duped. Call me stupid if you want. Did it change anything? Do you feel better now?
Or are you wasting your anger blaming me while letting the Oligarchy fool you and stealing from you your heritage and your labor and your intellect.
Don't stupidly blame "the Jews" for your problems. They've now been set up as the fall guy just as they were set up to be the heroes for my generation.
You know who the criminals are. They are on the cover of Forbes.
Some ask why the rich should pay. Anyone who asks that question is stupid.
OTOH, how do you define "rich". Don't let the Oligarchy divert you from themselves. Today's bourgeoisie isn't the problem. "We're all middle-class now". It is the Oligarchy.
Good that you got wise. Too many humans keep doubling down.
Completely agree with you. We are all constantly being gaslighted and propagandized by narratives that keep us subservient to the oligarchy. One day the narrative is "Jews are responsible for everything". Another day the narrative is "you are where you are in life because you are lazy, stupid, etc.".
The oligarchy (I call them the power elite) have so many narratives that they use to brainwash people so that the status quo can be maintained. The challenge is to break through all these narratives.
Which I think is good. After awhile, when there is SOOOOO much bullshit passing for information, people get wise to it and start to see the necessity for thinking for themselves. That’s when the revolution starts.
The Oligarchs are in Davos, and have bugs on your menu. Libtards and NeoContards, rinoRats and democRats will All Eat Ze Bugs.
You nailed it !!!
Just want to drop a note here. Second time no notification of post, and not in spam.
Keep your focus on the injustice, Caitlin. Thank you.
We ought to praise and encourage truth telling especially when it is so eloquent as Kaitlin's expression today.
mostly I find Caitlin's writing to be right on, but this one I found to be not well thought out and really, kind of silly. Blaming the older generation for this mess makes no sense and also inhibits the potential for younger people to learn from older ones.
As a boomer and life long radical activist the struggle should not be seen as generational or about the failures of the older generations. Every generation has failed in its mission to fundamentally change society including that of our parents and our own. It’s a hard mountain to move. But we need to recognize that youth and elders should have a collaborative relationship and both can contribute. Elders can benefit from the fresh ideas and energy of the youth, and the youth can learn from the history and experience of the elders who led struggles in past decades, especially during more radical and hopeful times than now. And yes, I will criticize where I disagree regardless of how old you are.
Reply to Ann Menache,
Well said Ann. All these ways to divide people (as if they didn't already have enough ways) as X, Y, Z, millennial or boomer are just more of the same. Divide and rule.
Fresh ideas?
get a life, Paul. We all have to work on this together, young and old. I think it is you who has the unfortunate tone.
I intended to delete that, but things came up. Like, having a life and stuff....
But I won't change my tone. My anger is justified.
well, you can't delete my comment, only your own. In my opinion, it is capitalism and the ensuing greed that has caused most of the world's problems. And people of all ages participate in capitalism. BUT it is those who have enough money to convince enough people to elect them who get into power and then struggle to hang onto that power by creating more wars, more poverty and encouraging consumption which is smothering (quite literally) our world. They make money from the wars, push questionable "solutions" to our environmental and climate problems (old and young alike do this). What they have in common is that they are money grubbers aka capitalists who will stop at very little to get more money into their bank accounts. Check out Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates and others.....
While I agree with the gist of what you are saying and I myself am a militant Anti-Capitalist, I wonder if the root of all these problems is more than just the "system of Capitalism".
I mean, greed is universal - with or without Capitalism (as borne out from history). And if Capitalism were somehow eradicated, wouldn't we still have lots of problems? (I surmise this from looking at humanity's historical record).
Yes, I do agree with you and believe that "Capitalism" has arguably been the WORST system that we have come up with - one that has done more damage than any other system in human history (IMHO).
To me capitalism is like a gun—it isn’t the gun that kills, it’s the person who aims and fires the gun. No system will “work” unless those who participate in it take responsibility for themselves, their choices, their consequences. Self examination is incredibly difficult but I notice it’s getting more popular here. I commend Caitlin for stirring up this hornet’s nest with her column. We seem to be beginning to see the humanitarian light of Aquarius. Day break at last. It’s been a long cold 20 years!!!
perhaps. I think maybe capitalism came about because of the greed of some people to have more power. It would be interesting if we could figure out why people even need or want to have that much power. Something in their childhood? something more general in our whole society?. there is so much beauty in the natural world, I don't really understand why people want more more more of everything else all the time. Is it how we are educated?
Unfortunately some of those young are being groomed as we speak to be the new empire managers. Most of the young are alright, but it only takes a few of them to pick up the levers and keep the rotten machine going.
"Men die, but the plutocracy is immortal; and it is necessary that fresh generations should be trained to its service" - Sinclair Lewis.
"Israel apologists would have you believe there’s been a sudden worldwide emergence of “Hamas supporters” everywhere rather than a normal and entirely predictable worldwide opposition to genocide."
This. And it gives me hope that there is a growing opposition to genocide. As Caitlin says, "Israel has lost the argument... Time for something new." Hmmm new? How about we never allow this sort of tragedy to happen again?
It is going to happen again:
Little Britain (IF the Tory's win) will be sending plane loads of immigrants to Rwanda!
How is that going to work?
Reply to R.C.
"....never allow this sort of tragedy to happen again?" They said that in 1945. It was a great idea then and it's a great idea now, but how do you do that without regulating the whole population into a (metaphorical) prison?
Have effective international law. Without there is only might makes right.