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Alice Leibowitz's avatar

And, in fact, 14 children froze to death in Gaza the same day this mass shooting took place in Australia. That's just children and just one form of death.

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Davina's avatar

And still they wonder why sane people hate them - Israelis that is.

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Les Johnston's avatar

I hope you wont mind me just asking what is the way to respond to those filled with hate? I am challenged by this question and think we must not hate as Zionists do. Maybe we need the language to express that total rejection of those who are filled with hate without possessing a mind of hatred. Ahmed did so by deed in removing the gun from one of the shooters.

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Davina's avatar

It's not actual hate, it's disgust at the enjoyment they get from torture and killing unarmed people who cannot fight back on equal terms, even starving them to weaken them, and dropping phospherous bombs onto tents that burn men, women and children to death in, what be the utmost agony, and find that amusing.

You certainly cannot have any respect for such subhumans who are beneath contempt, so most people opt for saying they hate them, myself included because why should I have to explain all the things I feel when I see and hear what they are doing?

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Dan Tompkins's avatar

Hatred begets hatred, and the atrocities never end. Only by breaking the cycle of hatred with love and empathy can healing begin.

“You certainly cannot have any respect for such subhumans who are beneath contempt…”

As long as you view people this way, the violence and hatred continues. This is the viewpoint which justifies atrocities. They are not subhuman. They are broken brainwashed humans, and had you or I been in their shoes, we’d likely be also.

They must be stopped. But the violence will never end as long as we see them as other, as subhuman, as inferior to ourselves.

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Davina's avatar

You go give them as much love as you can give. Me, I'll continue hating what they have and are still doing to an unarmed people simply because they want their land.

If you want everyone to be so forgiving, considering the heinous acts committed by israel, you go ahead but don't you dare ask me to forgive the unforgivable sin of killing children and newborns by phosphorous bombs dropped on tents in the night just because they could. Which is a speeding up of 80+ plus years of slow genocide now that people are aware of what reprehensible types have invaded Palestine.

If you have seen and/or read about the atrocities visited on Palestinians by israelis and truly believe your loving them will fix it, you go ahead and travel to israel. Then in a few months you can send pictures if yourself toting a rifle alongside these loveable murdering IOF.

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Dan Tompkins's avatar

“don't you dare ask me to forgive the unforgivable sin of killing children and newborns…”

I ask nothing of you. I shed tears daily for the victims of these atrocities. I shed tears for a world which allows these atrocities to occur when they could so easily be stopped. But mostly I shed tears knowing that the hatred being sown finds fertile ground to grow in the hearts of the victims and witnesses to these atrocities. These seeds grow strong and the righteous condemnation of the perpetrators will grow into further violence and atrocity. Forgiveness frees the forgiver from this chain of violence.

Victims want to answer pain with pain, death with death. But vengeance will not heal the pain, nor bring back the dead.

Most of us feel impotent in the face of these atrocities, so we let our anger and hatred seethe to salve our guilty consciences. The more we hold onto that hatred the more we can pretend that we are the righteous ones, that we are different, that we would never do or allow such things, that it’s not our fault and we are willing to do anything to destroy the subhuman perpetrators. And that righteous hatred destroys us, as surely as it has destroyed both the perpetrators and the victims of the horrors to which we are witness.

Forgiveness is not for the forgiven. Forgiveness frees the forgiver from the shackles put on our souls by the evils of the world. Your righteous hatred is your right to hold onto. But it helps no one, least of all yourself.

I’m not saying that the perpetrators of these horrors deserve forgiveness. I’m saying that the victims deserve freedom from these shackles, and that the world desperately needs the cycle of hatred to end.

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X K's avatar
6hEdited

"Indeed, the worst people on earth are using the Bondi Beach shooting to argue for crackdowns on free speech and freedom of assembly to silence Israel’s critics..."

I disagree with Caitlin's characterization here, these are not "people," they are "existents" who happen to have some of the same biological features of human beings - ingesting, defecating, fornicating, reproducing (unfortunately) - but otherwise possessive of no quality that could remotely be called human. We have seen a reassertion of that line attributed to Stalin, "A single death is a tragedy. A million is a statistic." Change the wording slightly and add in the Israeli manipulation of the media and you have fifteen Jewish murders getting more play than, where are we now, 100,000 Palestinians, half that number being children?

I believe I recall reading that Yawah Sinwar launched Oct. 7th to show the world the real Israel, and also to show the world to itself, before the experience of the Palestinians since the early 20th century at the hands of the Ashkenazi Jews, later joined by others, was to be erased from the human record by the actions of the Israelis and its allies and apologists. I would say that in this he succeeded, at a staggering cost. There was perhaps, naively, the belief that the world would come to its senses and rebuke and renounce Israel, but the world powers were instead revealed to have been complicit in Palestine's fate. Thus the horrible nature of the situation dictated Sinwar's pulling back the curtain would only unleash a genocide.

And all this is the legacy of Zionism. Abandon all pretext of humanity being the implicit, guiding force in human affairs. The inexorable reality is that of cynicism, vileness, venality, depravity, not just epitomized by and taken to new heights, or depths depending upon one's viewpoints, but that the rest of the world doesn't care, save tiny, impoverished Yemen, cared.

We've seen something like this before. We are approaching the 111th anniversary of the Christmas Truce on the Western Front in WWI, when British and German troops spontaneously ceased firing at one another, and gathered in No Man's land to sing carols, play soccer, exchange small gifts. When their officers found out, they were horrified, and swiftly put an end to further fraternization. That peace lasted forty-eight hours in a four-year war that killed millions. Has much changed since then?

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Wildrhody's avatar

One can't love a poisonous snake to the point it will not strike out and bite them or, for that matter, try and lovingly stop a charging momma bear protecting her cubs, therefore one certainly can't show love to a murderous psychopath, in hopes of changing them, since they were born that way, according to Dr. Ramani. The big difference is that the snake or bear does so as an instinctual self-defense or to protect their young, whereas the psychopath views his kills as a game or sport, so I'm on the same page as you!

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Ibti's avatar

It is noble and good to hate evil. Why does that word scare you so?

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Left Without A Choice 🔻's avatar

See Paradox of Tolerance

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Alice's avatar

Hi, where does this stat come from please? I wanted to refer to it on FB but I can't find it. I found '14 Palestinians including two children' died as a result of the flooding etc from Storm Byron. Thanks

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Alice Leibowitz's avatar

And it may be that he got it wrong. It might be the article you found. Still, the same number of murders on the same day, assuming there were no shootings or bombings.

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Alice Leibowitz's avatar

I got it in an email from Mazin Qumsiyeh. He usually offers sources but didn't this time. I asked him for one and will get it to you when he gets back to me.

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Whatistobedone's avatar

Thank you. I thought I was the ONLY ONE ....thinking that. This is the only (very semi) safe place to express that.....FACT, LOGIC.

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Antonio Brownlowe's avatar

You are right ,it is getting harder and harder to post any Truth or facts about Israel if you are not praising them and telling how Great JEWS are ,the Censorship of information about the Zionist is getting very difficult to get out on any of the Platforms now that they start to delete any info about Israeli non stop Genocide of the Palestinians even with their so called Ceasefire, if you say 'Why is Israel allowed to keep killing Palestinians even with a ceasefire in effect? on some platforms it gets deleted and called a Violation ,Hatred and SPAM.

(Business & Human Rights Resource Centre:

AMAZON GOOGLE MICROSOFT FUELS ISRAELI MILITARY AGGRESSION

The Israeli army is using cloud storage and artificial intelligence services provided by civilian tech giants in its ongoing onslaught on the Gaza Strip.

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Sean Griobhtha's avatar

All massacre derive fro. the US, Europe, and Israel.

ISIS & Mossad - “Jews killed Jews”

"Even if it means blowing up a few synagogues, I don’t care."

https://griobhtha1.substack.com/p/dear-zionist

Israeli PM Ariel Sharon, 1928-2014, in a Hebrew language interview with Israeli writer Amos Oz, stated: “Even today I volunteer to do the dirty work for Israel, to kill as many Arabs as necessary, to deport them, to expel and burn them, to have everyone hate us, to pull the rug out from underneath the feet of the Diaspora Jews, so that they will be forced to run to us crying. Even if it means blowing up a few synagogues, I don’t care. And I don’t mind if after the job is done you put me in front of a Nuremberg Trial and then jail me for life. Hang me if you want, as a war criminal… What your kind doesn’t understand is that the dirty work of Zionism is not finished yet, far from it.” (published in Hebrew in the Israeli newspaper Davar, 17 December 1982)

https://griobhtha1.substack.com/p/president-and-propagandists

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Dan Mage's avatar

These ones don't care if they get the rest of us killed either, but when people wake up to this it may be what pulls the plug on them.

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Feels Like Truth's avatar

We are conditioned to care in concentric circles - our family, our community, our nation and only reluctantly beyond that. When 15 deaths happen on our own streets, it hits our hearts like a thunderbolt. But when 15 deaths happen halfway across the world every day, it becomes background noise in the scrolling feed, a distant statistic we never truly see. That doesn’t mean those deaths matter less it means our empathy has been narrowed, trained to recognise suffering only when it looks and feels like “us.” Real truth doesn’t ask us to care instead of it asks us to care equally for all human life, even when our media, politics and instincts tell us not to. What feels true is that love and compassion aren’t finite resources; they just need practice starting by seeing every life as equally sacred, regardless of where it happens

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Feral Finster's avatar

For Whom the Bell Tolls

by

John Donne

No man is an island,

Entire of itself.

Each is a piece of the continent,

A part of the main.

If a clod be washed away by the sea,

Europe is the less.

As well as if a promontory were.

As well as if a manor of thine own

Or of thine friend's were.

Each man's death diminishes me,

For I am involved in mankind.

Therefore, send not to know

For whom the bell tolls,

It tolls for thee.

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Joy in HK fiFP's avatar

I was going to quote this as well.

Maybe I'll go with the one I posted in the NYT comment section today"

"Imagine there's no countries

It isn't hard to do

Nothing to kill or die for

And no religion too

Imagine all the people

Living life in peace"

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Malcolm MacPhail's avatar

You beat me to punch. I right away thought of John Donne after this magnificent article by Caitlin.

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Stormy Weathers's avatar

Would we be even hearing about it, had it happened in either the Gaza Strip or the West Bank?!

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Feels Like Truth's avatar

You’re not alone. A lot of people feel this but sense there’s no safe space to say it. Naming the inconsistency isn’t radical it’s just refusing to let empathy be rationed by geography or narrative.

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martin's avatar

i've got a hunch the religion or ethnicity of the victims would make a difference.

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Evelyn Craig's avatar

No simple answer

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Lynda Jones's avatar

? There certainly is an answer and yes it is simple. Start thinking it, start saying it, start believing it.

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Philip Martin's avatar

Like Israel breaking the ceasefire over 700 times ?

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martin's avatar

i'm guilty of the concentric circles too. gaza is closer to me than oz, i apologize.

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Dollyboy's avatar

Peter Singer, the philosopher, highlighted this phenomenon of human experience in his Pond Anology.

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dboing dboing's avatar

Australia is far from canada

It might not be distance but how we stratify human life dignity and rights across the world

Or our political media complex keep herding us to keep those cultural hierarchical or even supremacist de facto moral radar

Continuing 19th century worldviews to fit our merit of have been born richer and freer

Yes when we see entire groups in misery we might prefer assume it our relative merit instead of listening to something else inside us

I think of Rousseau right now

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Tom's avatar

Israeli media, citing sources in the intelligence services, are actively spreading the version that Iran is behind the terrorist attack in Sydney. The U.S. has already responded to this. “If the attack in Australia was carried out on Iran’s orders, Israel has full legitimacy from the U.S. to strike Iran,” a senior American source told Fox News. As I understand it, the Jews could have orchestrated this themselves.

In other news, the claimed shooter’s name, Naveed Akram, was searched 100 times in Israel the previous day, according to Google trends. This makes the argument for false flag attack stronger. You can verify it yourself in Google trends.

https://x.com/akamecoin/status/2000159213021180102

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gypsy33's avatar

Thanks for that info Tom 👍

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Avigail Abarbanel's avatar

I don’t see any limitations imposed on the freedom of speech of those who support Israeli/Zionist settler-colonialism/genocide/mass murder/ethnic cleansing in Gaza and all over historic Palestine. Those genocide apologists are allowed to cheer for and support crimes against humanity openly, not to mention violations of more conventions and UN resolutions than you can shake a stick at. Someone can surely make a huge court case out of that if the Australian government begins to place limits on Palestine advocacy. It beggars belief that our own governments are prepared to limit our democratic civil rights just to support Israel and collude with a colossal crime against humanity.

I came to live in Australia in 1991 and lived there for 18 years. All the governments I lived under were pro-Israel. Australia had better get their act together. The double standard of successive Australian governments (and UK where I now live) is eye-watering and disgusting.

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Evelyn Craig's avatar

Not just to support isrehell This is all leading to the WEF 2030 agenda where we will all be imprisoned it the digitised world of control .Starting with digitalised ID that will eventually link to digitalised credit scoring .to you can't do anything go to doctors .shops hospitals ect ect with out a ID and you will be under isrehrlli technology surveillance facial recognition bio metrics ect ect . Palestine was always the testing lab for control over people and many our countries have been already using their surveillance and software and buy their test weapons .drones as they battle tested in Palestine

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Indu Abeysekara's avatar

Evelyn Craig, Everything is battle tested in Palestine. Not only the newest technology but, the latest settler colonial lesson in how to do a genocide and getaway with it and yet ride the moral high ground.

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Avigail Abarbanel's avatar

And we must resist this.

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Feral Finster's avatar

Some humans are of importance to the Empire.

Others are of no importance.

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Davina's avatar

Right now Australians are important to the "Empire" because jews were killed and it gives satanyahu another chance to take pot shots at Oz.

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Feral Finster's avatar

It provides convenient pretexts to further crack down on freedom of speech and assembly and for an attack on Iran.

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Davina's avatar

Exactly. Not that they ever need much of an excuse anyway.

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Indu Abeysekara's avatar

Davina and Feral, Would it be heartless and cynical on my part to say that the brave Aussie who tackled the gunman - thus saving more lives - robbed the Israeli regime of the propaganda value they would have otherwise had from the Bondi violence?

And irony of ironies the brave Aussie happened to be a Muslim.

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Feral Finster's avatar

Nope. The empire did not so much as miss a beat.

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Davina's avatar

Agreed, be as cynical as you wish they often are but don't realise it 😉

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Nancy's avatar

We’ve come to expect the daily killings in Gaza. There are so many of them. We need to resist their being normalized, because we’re being conditioned to accept them by their sheer numbers. To a lesser extent, that’s what’s happening in the U.S. with respect to mass shootings. We go through the usual ritual of “hopes and prayers.” Again, it becomes normalized, we’re being conditioned, worn down. I think what we need to jolt us out of this is a reaction that is not normal, that is different because it’s unexpected. I’m not sure what form it would take — I’m thinking, for example, of a demonstration at the U.S. Capitol with actual photos of representatives who have consistently supported this with blood on their hands. Instead of naming the victims, name the perpetrators. Each demonstrator would carry a sign with the photograph of an individual member, saying her or (more likely) his name over and over.

Most people, including those here in the U.S., don’t realize that every single day since November 5, demonstrations have been occurring against the Trump Administration in Washington, D.C. The demonstrators have also targeted the Supreme Court, which for all intents and purposes is part of the Trump Administration. Thousands of people have traveled to the Capitol from all over the Country. Money has been raised and events carefully planned. It’s just not being covered by the media. Partly because, unlike the No Kings demonstrations, it hasn’t received the blessing of the Democratic Party. This lack of coverage is also being normalized. So, we also need to target the media with our demonstrations. And what else? I just don’t know. One thing, I think, being on our phones is no substitute for action.

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A Monkey Mind's avatar

We don't like to see violence "here". We are pretty indifferent to seeing it "there".

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Reality Seeker's avatar

Don't forget all those nameless victims being murdered in Sudan, the nameless Christians being murdered in Nigeria, and other atrocities in other places. The world is full of torture and violent death. Palestine and Australia are just the latest tip of the iceberg. Human nature is violent unless taught otherwise.

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Evelyn Craig's avatar

No elites .leaders . government and greedy bankers and cooperations and wall street that need taught as they ones that want forever wars resources To keep getting richer while you become poorer

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John Visher's avatar

Bondi Beach was a false flag operation with crisis actors and nobody got killed. Gaza is a real bloodbath. Jews did both these operations. You can’t be too disgusted with them.

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Tom's avatar

the claimed shooter’s name, Naveed Akram, was searched 100 times in Israel the previous day, according to Google trends. This makes the argument for false flag attack stronger. You can verify it yourself in Google trends.

https://x.com/akamecoin/status/2000159213021180102

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Evelyn Craig's avatar

Was meant to happen twice once about week before other post says 3 hours before

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Tom's avatar
14hEdited

Similar patterns with Charlie Kirk's murder and the name of various individuals in that Utah town, including the surgeon's name searched dozens of times in Israel in the days before.

But I'm not sure what you're trying to say about the Bondi shooter search timeline. His name was searched a hundred times the day before the shooting.

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Luke's avatar

Nothing surprises anymore. I think regular people (myself included) just want to throw up their hands and shrug it all off. And that is probably by design.

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Chang Chokaski's avatar

Nope. More FAKE narratives and conspiracy theories.

From: https://www.aap.com.au/factcheck/misinformation-exploits-confusion-grief-after-bondi-attack/ ->

"Some Facebook posts1 claim users in Israel were searching the name of one shooter identified in media reports, "Naveed Akram", on Google hours or even days before the attack.

The posts feature purported screenshots of time-series search activity for his name from the Google Trends website.

"My question is this? Why were people in Tel Aviv searching for Naveed Akram later identified as the alleged Bondi Beach sho**oter on December 7 and 9, days before the tragic event?" the overlay text on one post reads.

Another Facebook post2 with alleged screenshots of Google Trends results for Israel and India reads: "Coincidence or False Flag???"

A 'false flag' is an action designed to appear to have been perpetrated by someone other than the person or group responsible for it.

However, the claims are false as there is no credible evidence that people in Israel or India searched Google for the shooter's name before the attack.

AAP FactCheck searched Google Trends3 and found no results for people searching the term "Naveed Akram" in Israel4 or in India5 before Sunday's attack.

Several Instagram posts6 claim Akram served in the Israel Defense Forces (IDF).

"Naveed Akram is an IDF soldier that served in Gaza and returned to Australia. Today, he lost his mind and killed 12 jews," one caption reads."

[The above is just one of several that DEBUNK false-flag conspiracy theories]

However, Akram has no reported links to Israel or the IDF.

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Malcolm B's avatar

The fact that you used an apparatus of censorship against the accepted narrative is telling, which negates your story.

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Jim's avatar

What’s next? Snopes?

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Chang Chokaski's avatar

Do yourself a favor and take a course on logic (for starters).

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Mark Denton's avatar

I also suspect a false flag attack. It's hard to say that when so many people have died. I don't just mean in Australia.

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Bill Rattigan's avatar

False flag.

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Chang Chokaski's avatar

Nope, not even remotely. Think BLOWBACK.

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Jim's avatar

Your response on EVERY post that mentions a false flag is weird. What exactly are you up to Chang?

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Chang Chokaski's avatar

Read the material and think for yourself. Too many conspiracy theorists on Substack (including Caitlin's).

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Chang Chokaski's avatar

Debunked by multiple sources ->

(1) Bondi Beach Tragedy: Unpacking Baseless Claims of Shooter Naveed Akram’s IDF Links (https://celebsindepth.com/naveed-akram-served-in-idf/)

(2) Misinformation exploits confusion, grief after Bondi attack (https://www.aap.com.au/factcheck/misinformation-exploits-confusion-grief-after-bondi-attack/)

As for Council Estate Media, I have a low opinion of their 'quality of critical thinking in analysis', as they seem to stride on the edge of 'skepticism' and 'conspiratorial thinking'. (My response to another commentator on this here -> https://www.caitlinjohnst.one/p/israel-apologists-hasten-to-use-bondi/comment/188184137)

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Diana van Eyk's avatar

We need to grow our compassion, and stop favouring one race over another. And we need to see ourselves as parts of one big human and non-human family.

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The Revolution Continues's avatar

So true. I'm tired of them playing us against each other.

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gypsy33's avatar

I ain’t gettin “played”.

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Diana van Eyk's avatar

Me too.

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Stormy Weathers's avatar

Would we be even hearing about it, had it happened in either the Gaza Strip or the West Bank?!

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Chang Chokaski's avatar

CJ>>"Australians Being Massacred Shouldn't Bother Us More Than Palestinians Being Massacred"

Caitlin, it doesn't bother me one bit. Maybe that's cold of me to say that, but in comparison to the 500,000+ murders of people in the Middle East (Palestine, Syria, Lebanon, Iran, Yemen, and more) by Israel, I could care less about '15 Westerners' (Jewish or otherwise) killed BECAUSE of Israel's Genocide and ethnic cleansing that has been going on for 75+ years now.

The unfortunate part is that 'this pattern' is going to CONTINUE (i.e. blowback) in many parts of the world. The violence of Israel is not necessarily going to stay in the MENA region - it is going to have global repercussions.

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Evelyn Craig's avatar

That slow ethnic cleansing and genocide .Has actually been going on 150 years it started by Zionist movement in late 1800s either 1887 or 1898 was Lways their plan to colonise Palestine minus the Palestine and Arabs

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Chang Chokaski's avatar

Yes, though it ramped up significantly after WW2.

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Evelyn Craig's avatar

Typo meant 1889

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Marci Sudlow's avatar

If Israel is not somehow behind this, then they are certainly glad to have an opportunity fall into their laps to cry about made-up global antisemitism.

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