Sadly, my gut feeling about Zionism is that behind all the propaganda and the bellowing about chosen-by-deities, it's just another situation in which amoral humans employ violence to enrich themselves.
Same old same old. Just like what has been done by other Europeans in other countries. They had to deal with all those "savages" first and then they had lots of great property to take over.
Whilst you all have righteous ( in a kind way) indignation Most all miss the point.
I have been thinking hard and sad about my life.
ONE thing that Western powers DO forget is the children of Colonialist regimes. I was one of them and suffering ever since.
As a child I loved my Country: Sri Lanka.
It was the most beautiful place to grow up in BUT as a child I did see through the crap! Beggars on the streets with broken bones MANAGED by the RICH. We had servants/cook and our main servant Thomas....who was more than a parent to me when I was young.
In one of my mothers 'rare' instances in 'truth telling'; she told me that the rich broke the bones of beggars.
I know I am not being consistent here BUT every single time I walked out into the world of Sri Lanka I was accosted by beggars asking for money: Where did the money these beggars go?
As I keep reminding people the Western people are filled with shame and guilt for their complete lack of knowing a world outside your own hemisphere.
As a child of colonialist parents I did see the errors which is why I have never settled in any white country.
I am going to be 76 this year. I want to get out of France right now.
I am so 'messed up' by this constant chaos surrounding us BUT I have studied 'chaos theory.'
Wow, Jennie. I had no idea of your colonialist background. It's probably important that you share from that perspective to broaden the conversation regardless of anyone's criticism. I grew up first-gen Italian-American, born in NYC, child of immigrants. There are unique observations about US society from that perspective. And so on. One of the Susans is Canadian, and I'm always interested in her views. We all need to expand awareness, not contract it. How can it hurt to hear these stories?
Respectfully, Bob. First, you're correct about fear, confusion and false hope -- a perverse trinity!
I'm pretty sure I can distinguish propaganda from reality. Which reality? This observable one: As a university-level teacher of adult and quasi-adult learners, I'm reflecting on the ATTITUDES I've encountered over many years in Americans and international students (who choose American education, therefore admittedly a select subpopulation). The most disheartening (not depressing, but reality-informing) aspect is the intransigence to considering ideas that violate their own brainwashing. Perhaps those populations I've seen in my life are uncharacteristic of the broader scope of humanity. I can only hope so, but I wonder.
If you read my comment, you read about interpersonal interactions, fairly intimate conversations I've had with scores of students in 40 years, I got pretty good at using experience plus intuition to parse bullshit and really get a feel for where a lot of these folks were coming from. As to the larger questions you pose, I make no claim to any sort of ecumenical knowledge.
In most of the cases you mention, I assume corruption st some level simply because it appears to be the way the society at large and many or most of its institutions are structured to encourage; with that as preface, how can anyone know? Except for certain items within my sphere of expertise for which I have a studied opinion, for example PCR, which has applications in research within bounds but should stay the hell out of clinical medicine. The other examples you mention, I plead ignorance founded on the near certainty of corruption.
What's interesting to me as an American who usually freely craps on his own country is that, in this instance, I'm extra pissed off because we're accustomed to an actually documented free speech guarantee in our bill of rights. I find that's actually true for me; propaganda or not, I grew up believing it.
I have always freely crapped on my country's government whenever I felt it was necessary (Canada in my case). I also crapped on the State of Israel quite often. For that I was called an antisemite (altho people weren't being jailed for saying that at the time) but I was never called an anti Canadian. It is crazy that we are now at risk of jail time if we say anything about Palestinian rights or anything about the Israeli soldiers shooting kids in the head just because they feel like it.
No, Vin - it is not the one country of 7 million that insists on it - it is the minority in power (in western countries) that have their wealth, economic systems, and way of life (including suppresssion, oppression, and exploitation in the maintaining of the existing status quo) that insists on it.
Attacking Zionism (and Israel) threatens the status quo of these 'power elite' minorities (irrespective of being Jewish or not). Hence, to maintain the existing unjust hierarchies of oppression, exploitation, etc., and protect the wealth (and way of life) of these 'power elite', the West is taking DESPERATE ACTIONS (like blatant and egregious violations of free speech) across Western nations.
I absolutely must agree with that analysis, Chang since it elaborates so eloquently upon my original theme, "amoral humans using violence to enrich themselves".
as mr dore often says: the counter to 'bad' speech is not a prohibition, but more free speech. this censorship is the cutting off of dialectics, because rulers know it will ultimately endanger their privileged position.
Yeah the 'globalists' like Trudeau are Zionists and 'anti-globalists' like Hesgeth are Zionists. The former can quote LGBTQ+ in full and is a Russia hawk but the latter (also the defence Secretary of the biggest military power) is a China/commumist hawk and is openly sexist, racist and violently Islamophobic.
and it sets a precedent. empire is fully cashing in on the holocaust-industry. if they can make the public ultimately accept this for this subject, they'll be moving on to the next, like stating that people are exploited.
My country the USA, the enabler of the Zionist State holds the title of World's Foremost Terrorist State. Our AIPAC🇺🇸🇮🇱 controlled government leads the Anglo-Zionist Empire of Lies and Hate🇺🇸🇪🇺🇫🇲🇮🇱.
Zionists are always changing the meaning of words. Everything is a grey area which is always judged on the side of the Zionists. Why aren't they jailing most of the commentators on Sky News Australia like Erin Morlan and Sharri Markson who constantly say every Palestinian is a terrorist, endlessly repeat "October 7th" while never mentioning the previous 75+ years or anything that has happened since "October 7th" and that all the Gazans deserve what has happened the last 17 months.
CJ>>"Westerners need to understand that we have moved far beyond the point where Israel is a threat only to middle eastern lives: it’s a threat to us all, because the western governments who support it are stomping out our basic freedoms with increasing aggression in order to silence all criticisms of its abuses."
and
CJ>>"Zionism is a threat to civil rights everywhere. Zionism threatens us all."
🎯💯👏 Zionism is EVIL - and it is MORE than just a threat to civil rights. It is colonialism. It is imperialism. It is class warfare. It is exploitative and oppressive capitalism. The way the West has seemingly united behind Zionism, at this point in time Zionism is WAY WORSE than Nazism (with the full effects/consequences of Zionism still to be felt several generations into the future).
Well said! Well and truly paving the way to totalitarianism. We look the other to way at our own peril. Dystopian! Hope the Aussies remember that when they cast their vote. There are alternatives like Australian Citizens Party
Right Erwin. 'Straya, the land of the fair go, allegedly, not-so-gently placing its finger on the scales of justice. Together with either utterly biased or supine media, it does not bode well for the furtherance of our fair-go society. Right, too, about options like ACP. The LabLib duopoly has no answers.
And it's happening all over the western world. Conflating Zionism with Judaism is an insult to many Jews, especially the ones who oppose Israel's genocide.
It’s not just the outposts, the UK is just the same, our PM is married to a Jew, and says he is a Zionist. He and his government are happy to slap down “free speech” when it comes to Gaza, and protesting about anything to improve the lot of people in general.
And it is happening now in America. Criticism of Israel here is now branded as 'antisemitic' and therefore a civil rights violation. The process is starting with financial sanctions by the Trump administration against universities that allowed pro-Palestine demonstrations, and the next step will be to criminalize anti-Zionist comments as hate speech. Pseudo-left progressivists paved the way for this by trivializing the First Amendment as 'free-speech absolutism' that was being 'privilieged' to abuse the feelings of minorities. Now that idiocy is coming back around to bite them.
DAWN has urged the ICC prosecutor to investigate and prosecute former President Biden, State Secretary Blinken and Defense Secretary Austin for their personal roles in aiding and abetting Israeli war crimes, crimes against humanity, and genocide in Gaza as part of his ongoing investigation into the situations in Palestine since 2014.
Joseph E, You are right. We should demand the President, his cabinet, most of Congress all register as agents of a foreign country, Israel. I wonder why no reporters ever bring that up when they're questioning politicians. We could also ask that of legacy news outlets.
Caitlin and Tim, every time I read/hear you, I am amazed you can hit the nail on the head every time!
JFK was pretty solid on the notion that AIPAC's predecessor (AZC, I think) would have to register. So, of course, he paid the consequences in a world run by Zionist maniacs.
The fact is that the Jewish element of Zionism is not to be underestimated, almost ignored like you do. Australia bends over backwards supporting israel and attacking free speech not because of Christians inside of Australia, but because there is a very influential Jewish community in Australia; there are very few Christian Zionists in Australia.
5 out of 7 of the richest Australians are Jewish. Mark Dreyfus, the attorney general and cabinet secretary of Australia, is Jewish. The anti defamation committee, and many other Jewish organisations lobby parliament behind the scenes.
According to the Encyclopaedia Judaica (a Jewish encyclopaedia): ‘Jews are prominent in the spheres of business and professional life, with an estimated 15-20 percent of Australias annual "rich lists" being Jewish, mainly Melbourne Holocaust survivors and their relatives. Jews also comprise a disproportionate percentage of Australias lawyers and doctors, especially in Melbourne and Sydney.’
This small community has influence, and they are the reason Australia supports Israel unconditionally and silences critics at home with such vengeance
Here's another explanation -> Australia is America's bitch, just as Canada, UK, and many other countries are (in the political and economic spheres). Hence, Australia will follow the lead of the US, just as Canada does and so many other Western countries do too.
Here in Australia and beyond, Chang's explanation looks more like it, in reality and accuracy. Although some comments from Pacific Herald are valid, one cannot blame a specific community for prospering.
It becomes the problem when that economic power and privilege are weaponised and used to support a settler colonial state - Israel - which finds its fertile home with the past natural born killers of colonialism; whose very justification for existing is tied up with similar genocidal crimes of Israel.
Capitalism, morphing onto neoliberalism is the US/West's ideological ground for continuous exploitation of others. From here it is just a step to fascism which we are witnessing right now. In this environment they have to suppress dissent.
People of the world are up against white suprematist fascistic governments and the only weapon we have is dissent.
I doubt it. As long as the US maintains US Dollar hegemony, I don't see the control /grasp on Canada, UK, Australia by the US to deviate much. Europe is interesting though...wonder how that will unfold...
Trump's tariffs are STUPID in EVERY WAY - and will land up damaging the US more than the other countries (IMHO). It has already caused a decline in the US financial markets, and further declines are sure to upset the neoliberal global capitalists class and their corporations - by which I am assuming that there will be pressure on Trump to tone down or even cancel the tariffs. Interesting times indeed...
The last time I was feeling this way about the u.s. economy, I purchased Put Options on Lehman Brothers, Bank of America, and Citibank. I love taking money from the Oligarchs and returning to causes that benefit all of us. We could well be seeing the end of u.s. dollar hegemony with the tariff wars. The BRICS I think have taken that fail safe away from the financialized u.s. As you say my friend interesting times.
Sadly, my gut feeling about Zionism is that behind all the propaganda and the bellowing about chosen-by-deities, it's just another situation in which amoral humans employ violence to enrich themselves.
It's been a land grab from day one.
And more, I think. After all, the investors lurk. -- big energy and property development.
Same old same old. Just like what has been done by other Europeans in other countries. They had to deal with all those "savages" first and then they had lots of great property to take over.
Hard to argue with the history of colonialism.
💯
Why sadly? Surely, if that is what it is, knowing is better than not knowing. Am I right?
Oh, I'm just reflecting on the overall state of humanity. Groan. Forgive me. Of course you're right.
My friend, I feel the same way. Many days I am at a loss for words, my collaborators are happy about that though.
I think I need to jump in here:
Whilst you all have righteous ( in a kind way) indignation Most all miss the point.
I have been thinking hard and sad about my life.
ONE thing that Western powers DO forget is the children of Colonialist regimes. I was one of them and suffering ever since.
As a child I loved my Country: Sri Lanka.
It was the most beautiful place to grow up in BUT as a child I did see through the crap! Beggars on the streets with broken bones MANAGED by the RICH. We had servants/cook and our main servant Thomas....who was more than a parent to me when I was young.
In one of my mothers 'rare' instances in 'truth telling'; she told me that the rich broke the bones of beggars.
I know I am not being consistent here BUT every single time I walked out into the world of Sri Lanka I was accosted by beggars asking for money: Where did the money these beggars go?
As I keep reminding people the Western people are filled with shame and guilt for their complete lack of knowing a world outside your own hemisphere.
As a child of colonialist parents I did see the errors which is why I have never settled in any white country.
I am going to be 76 this year. I want to get out of France right now.
I am so 'messed up' by this constant chaos surrounding us BUT I have studied 'chaos theory.'
I do have hope regardless of what I have seen.
OUT of darkness becomes light.
Wow, Jennie. I had no idea of your colonialist background. It's probably important that you share from that perspective to broaden the conversation regardless of anyone's criticism. I grew up first-gen Italian-American, born in NYC, child of immigrants. There are unique observations about US society from that perspective. And so on. One of the Susans is Canadian, and I'm always interested in her views. We all need to expand awareness, not contract it. How can it hurt to hear these stories?
"Did the tours?" Did you get in a car and drive yourself? IF not I have nothing to add!
Respectfully, Bob. First, you're correct about fear, confusion and false hope -- a perverse trinity!
I'm pretty sure I can distinguish propaganda from reality. Which reality? This observable one: As a university-level teacher of adult and quasi-adult learners, I'm reflecting on the ATTITUDES I've encountered over many years in Americans and international students (who choose American education, therefore admittedly a select subpopulation). The most disheartening (not depressing, but reality-informing) aspect is the intransigence to considering ideas that violate their own brainwashing. Perhaps those populations I've seen in my life are uncharacteristic of the broader scope of humanity. I can only hope so, but I wonder.
If you read my comment, you read about interpersonal interactions, fairly intimate conversations I've had with scores of students in 40 years, I got pretty good at using experience plus intuition to parse bullshit and really get a feel for where a lot of these folks were coming from. As to the larger questions you pose, I make no claim to any sort of ecumenical knowledge.
In most of the cases you mention, I assume corruption st some level simply because it appears to be the way the society at large and many or most of its institutions are structured to encourage; with that as preface, how can anyone know? Except for certain items within my sphere of expertise for which I have a studied opinion, for example PCR, which has applications in research within bounds but should stay the hell out of clinical medicine. The other examples you mention, I plead ignorance founded on the near certainty of corruption.
It is an evil cult. It is organized crime.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnnnsR6sMP0
You can safely go with your gut in this instance.
This escalated lockdown on free speech across the "free world" is very disturbing.
What's interesting to me as an American who usually freely craps on his own country is that, in this instance, I'm extra pissed off because we're accustomed to an actually documented free speech guarantee in our bill of rights. I find that's actually true for me; propaganda or not, I grew up believing it.
I have always freely crapped on my country's government whenever I felt it was necessary (Canada in my case). I also crapped on the State of Israel quite often. For that I was called an antisemite (altho people weren't being jailed for saying that at the time) but I was never called an anti Canadian. It is crazy that we are now at risk of jail time if we say anything about Palestinian rights or anything about the Israeli soldiers shooting kids in the head just because they feel like it.
It is beyond crazy, Susan. Worldwide muzzling of speech because one country of 7 million insists on it? Absurd.
No, Vin - it is not the one country of 7 million that insists on it - it is the minority in power (in western countries) that have their wealth, economic systems, and way of life (including suppresssion, oppression, and exploitation in the maintaining of the existing status quo) that insists on it.
Attacking Zionism (and Israel) threatens the status quo of these 'power elite' minorities (irrespective of being Jewish or not). Hence, to maintain the existing unjust hierarchies of oppression, exploitation, etc., and protect the wealth (and way of life) of these 'power elite', the West is taking DESPERATE ACTIONS (like blatant and egregious violations of free speech) across Western nations.
I absolutely must agree with that analysis, Chang since it elaborates so eloquently upon my original theme, "amoral humans using violence to enrich themselves".
Bingo!
Israel is beloved of much Big Money. And Big Money rules the Western world.
And such a sordid love affair it is!
If they include stuff you've posted in the past, I'll be doing life in the federal butt fuck pen.
As little love as I have for racists, I support their right to freedom of speech.
you mean those racists who are governing us?
Sure. It doesn't mean we must obey their free speech.
as mr dore often says: the counter to 'bad' speech is not a prohibition, but more free speech. this censorship is the cutting off of dialectics, because rulers know it will ultimately endanger their privileged position.
"Racism" is the answer. If it wasn't, the Zionists/globalist would not be obsessed with opposing it.
Yeah the 'globalists' like Trudeau are Zionists and 'anti-globalists' like Hesgeth are Zionists. The former can quote LGBTQ+ in full and is a Russia hawk but the latter (also the defence Secretary of the biggest military power) is a China/commumist hawk and is openly sexist, racist and violently Islamophobic.
But they agree where it counts- on Israel.
and it sets a precedent. empire is fully cashing in on the holocaust-industry. if they can make the public ultimately accept this for this subject, they'll be moving on to the next, like stating that people are exploited.
Zionists are Terrorists
Israel is a Terrorist State.
My country the USA, the enabler of the Zionist State holds the title of World's Foremost Terrorist State. Our AIPAC🇺🇸🇮🇱 controlled government leads the Anglo-Zionist Empire of Lies and Hate🇺🇸🇪🇺🇫🇲🇮🇱.
They are just organized criminals.
Zionists are always changing the meaning of words. Everything is a grey area which is always judged on the side of the Zionists. Why aren't they jailing most of the commentators on Sky News Australia like Erin Morlan and Sharri Markson who constantly say every Palestinian is a terrorist, endlessly repeat "October 7th" while never mentioning the previous 75+ years or anything that has happened since "October 7th" and that all the Gazans deserve what has happened the last 17 months.
It's a designed information mismanagement tactic called Hasbara. The world must render Hasbara impotent.
CJ>>"Westerners need to understand that we have moved far beyond the point where Israel is a threat only to middle eastern lives: it’s a threat to us all, because the western governments who support it are stomping out our basic freedoms with increasing aggression in order to silence all criticisms of its abuses."
and
CJ>>"Zionism is a threat to civil rights everywhere. Zionism threatens us all."
🎯💯👏 Zionism is EVIL - and it is MORE than just a threat to civil rights. It is colonialism. It is imperialism. It is class warfare. It is exploitative and oppressive capitalism. The way the West has seemingly united behind Zionism, at this point in time Zionism is WAY WORSE than Nazism (with the full effects/consequences of Zionism still to be felt several generations into the future).
100% agree
Well said! Well and truly paving the way to totalitarianism. We look the other to way at our own peril. Dystopian! Hope the Aussies remember that when they cast their vote. There are alternatives like Australian Citizens Party
Right Erwin. 'Straya, the land of the fair go, allegedly, not-so-gently placing its finger on the scales of justice. Together with either utterly biased or supine media, it does not bode well for the furtherance of our fair-go society. Right, too, about options like ACP. The LabLib duopoly has no answers.
And it's happening all over the western world. Conflating Zionism with Judaism is an insult to many Jews, especially the ones who oppose Israel's genocide.
Wait till Trump starts throwing Jewish Americans in prison like he’s threatening to do to anyone who protests Israel. That’s gonna leave a mark.
Cold comfort, but precisely the same thing is happening in Canada. We colonial outposts, aren't we just the shit?
It’s not just the outposts, the UK is just the same, our PM is married to a Jew, and says he is a Zionist. He and his government are happy to slap down “free speech” when it comes to Gaza, and protesting about anything to improve the lot of people in general.
And it is happening now in America. Criticism of Israel here is now branded as 'antisemitic' and therefore a civil rights violation. The process is starting with financial sanctions by the Trump administration against universities that allowed pro-Palestine demonstrations, and the next step will be to criminalize anti-Zionist comments as hate speech. Pseudo-left progressivists paved the way for this by trivializing the First Amendment as 'free-speech absolutism' that was being 'privilieged' to abuse the feelings of minorities. Now that idiocy is coming back around to bite them.
It’s strangling free speech every where.
Dear Caitlin,
Please be safe. I don't have to tell you to be strong, for that I know you are! Thank you for your courage.
Thank you, I need say more. Hugs.
DAWN has urged the ICC prosecutor to investigate and prosecute former President Biden, State Secretary Blinken and Defense Secretary Austin for their personal roles in aiding and abetting Israeli war crimes, crimes against humanity, and genocide in Gaza as part of his ongoing investigation into the situations in Palestine since 2014.
https://dawnmena.org/latest/
Let’s give them our support.
Joy, except the new ICC head is a fanatic Evangelical Zionist. We won't get help from her.
Thank you, always looking for ways to support justice for the Palestinian people.
Most politicians engage in all kinds of offensive political rhetoric yet they're not in jail, hmmmm 🤔
Joseph E, You are right. We should demand the President, his cabinet, most of Congress all register as agents of a foreign country, Israel. I wonder why no reporters ever bring that up when they're questioning politicians. We could also ask that of legacy news outlets.
Caitlin and Tim, every time I read/hear you, I am amazed you can hit the nail on the head every time!
JFK was pretty solid on the notion that AIPAC's predecessor (AZC, I think) would have to register. So, of course, he paid the consequences in a world run by Zionist maniacs.
Zionism must be destroyed!
A very good analysis, as usual. Thank you.
So Very True, I loathe being controlled by the Minority 😞
The fact is that the Jewish element of Zionism is not to be underestimated, almost ignored like you do. Australia bends over backwards supporting israel and attacking free speech not because of Christians inside of Australia, but because there is a very influential Jewish community in Australia; there are very few Christian Zionists in Australia.
5 out of 7 of the richest Australians are Jewish. Mark Dreyfus, the attorney general and cabinet secretary of Australia, is Jewish. The anti defamation committee, and many other Jewish organisations lobby parliament behind the scenes.
According to the Encyclopaedia Judaica (a Jewish encyclopaedia): ‘Jews are prominent in the spheres of business and professional life, with an estimated 15-20 percent of Australias annual "rich lists" being Jewish, mainly Melbourne Holocaust survivors and their relatives. Jews also comprise a disproportionate percentage of Australias lawyers and doctors, especially in Melbourne and Sydney.’
This small community has influence, and they are the reason Australia supports Israel unconditionally and silences critics at home with such vengeance
Here's another explanation -> Australia is America's bitch, just as Canada, UK, and many other countries are (in the political and economic spheres). Hence, Australia will follow the lead of the US, just as Canada does and so many other Western countries do too.
Here in Australia and beyond, Chang's explanation looks more like it, in reality and accuracy. Although some comments from Pacific Herald are valid, one cannot blame a specific community for prospering.
It becomes the problem when that economic power and privilege are weaponised and used to support a settler colonial state - Israel - which finds its fertile home with the past natural born killers of colonialism; whose very justification for existing is tied up with similar genocidal crimes of Israel.
Capitalism, morphing onto neoliberalism is the US/West's ideological ground for continuous exploitation of others. From here it is just a step to fascism which we are witnessing right now. In this environment they have to suppress dissent.
People of the world are up against white suprematist fascistic governments and the only weapon we have is dissent.
Will the tariff tax war change that? u.s. isolated might be a learning experience.
I doubt it. As long as the US maintains US Dollar hegemony, I don't see the control /grasp on Canada, UK, Australia by the US to deviate much. Europe is interesting though...wonder how that will unfold...
Trump's tariffs are STUPID in EVERY WAY - and will land up damaging the US more than the other countries (IMHO). It has already caused a decline in the US financial markets, and further declines are sure to upset the neoliberal global capitalists class and their corporations - by which I am assuming that there will be pressure on Trump to tone down or even cancel the tariffs. Interesting times indeed...
The last time I was feeling this way about the u.s. economy, I purchased Put Options on Lehman Brothers, Bank of America, and Citibank. I love taking money from the Oligarchs and returning to causes that benefit all of us. We could well be seeing the end of u.s. dollar hegemony with the tariff wars. The BRICS I think have taken that fail safe away from the financialized u.s. As you say my friend interesting times.