Caitlin, what a perfect analogy this is! You continue to amaze me with your dedication to analyzing this horrific atrocity from every angle and writing some of the most gut wrenching, moving and yet essential articles about the historic unimaginable genocide in Gaza. You will go down in history as one of the top authors whose articles will be remembered as righteous, factual, moral and ethical. Thank you so much for your talent, creativity, truthfulness and feelings. From Julian Assange to Aaron Bushnell to Palestine, you truly reach my heart and soul! Brava Caitlin, BRAVA!
It would be a closer analogy if serial killer David Parker Ray intentionally left the ice pick where Cynthia Vigil could use it to "jail break" by stabbing jail guard Cindy Hendy.
Serial Killer Ray then pursued Cynthia Vigil who took refuge in a family's home.
He then opened fire on the home pretending as if he was trying to kill Vigil, but being the maniac that he was, he was actually trying to score kills on the family as well as seize their home.
The police arrived and stood guard while serial killer Ray tried to ostensibly kill Cynthia Vigil.
When serial killer Ray ran low on ammunition the police dutifully supplied him with more and better ammunition.
Protestors arrived that were anti-serial-killing. These were later followed by counter protestors that were pro-serial-killing.
A US senator commenced to seek the passage of a bill to invite Serial Killer David Ray Parker to speak before both Houses of Congress.
On Friday Netanyahu **was** invited to speak before both Houses of Congress.
Bernie Sanders says he will not attend.
However, Bernie wants us to believe that once Netanyahu is gone then we have seen the last of the serial killers and we can all go back to pretending that Israel is a special kind of place.
I agree. Netanyahu is a narcissistic sociopath but his removal will change little. The rest of the Knesset isn’t much better and the Israeli public seems to be ok with decimating Gaza as long as the captives are returned.
I have no faith in Israel’s agreement to this deal. They are still saying they’ll keep bombing and destroying Gaza until they get rid of Hamas. As Hamas rules Gaza who will they negotiate with if they don’t accept hamas’s government. I think they are simply bowing to international pressure to get some aid in. As soon as the 6 weeks are up they’ll go right back to business as usual and who will stop them?
There doesn’t seem to be any concrete plans to truly remove Israeli troops from all of Gaza. There’s no mention of lifting the blockade of Gaza permanently and Netanyahu certainly hasn’t made any statement accepting a two state solution. After the Israelis get back at least some hostages and let some aid in I think they’ll say there’s no way to resolve their differences, still have to destroy Hamas for their “security”, blame Hamas for not turning themselves in, and just start bombing again.
This isn’t a peace deal it’s another “pause”. Medical services can’t be restored in any meaningful way in 6 weeks with the hospitals destroyed, roads torn up and rubble everywhere. The ambulances that haven’t been destroyed will have no way to reach people. Reasonable housing options with adequate water, food, fuel, etc can’t be restored in 6 weeks. The waste management systems can’t be rebuilt in 6 weeks. All they can do is attempt to distribute food and water to people living in makeshift tents with no sanitation or means for washing themselves, clothes, dishes, etc. It will be even worse than the other “pauses” because the physical destruction is so much greater and the people are so exhausted from the struggle for survival without adequate food, water, or medical care. The people of Gaza have lost everything - their homes, their belongings, and their loved ones. Those who aren’t murdered by Israel will carry the physical and psychological scars for the rest of their lives. To hold out this false promise of an end to the nightmare is cruel beyond belief.
Yes, it's a tremendous FARCE that is being perpetrated! Israel, of course, can not be trusted about anything they may promise. This disingenuous 'agreement' is simply another load of bullshit that only cretins will believe in - a prelude to more of the same.
Yes. Thanks .A pretty accurate summation of the situation I would say.
Whatever the negotiated settlement, you can't trust the Israelis, because they lie constantly and have ulterior motives.
Their real intention is to ethnically cleanse Palestinians from Gaza and the West Bank, so in the sense of having destroyed most of Gaza's homes and infrastructure, they're pretty much closer to their goal now of making the place uninhabitable.
Now they just have to get rid of the million and a half homeless people, either by killing them, or getting the Americans to take them out through the floating pier the US built, perhaps with that in mind too.
So the mindful killing will go on unless Israel is stopped.
The only possibility I see for rescuing the Palestinians in Gaza is for a military attack on Israel by Egypt, with Turkey providing air cover of a no-fly zone over Gaza, and Iran's involvement through supporting its proxies in the region in the 'Arc of resistance' withHezbollah in Lebanon, and the other anti Israeli groups in Iraq and Syria joining in and attacking Israel, as they have been doing in the past
The big question would be how much direct military support the US would give to Israe,l if it meant attacking a NATO ally in Turkey, and a former ally in Egypt.
Then there's the penultimate question of whether then a stricken Israel would use nuclear weapons to strike back at its enemies in the region.
Whatever happens, the endings for everyone involved are likely to be very messy!
Oh also anti-serial-killing protestors keep getting fired and dragged in front of different committees while pro-serial-killing protestors cannot be questioned. Whenever someone tries they're told they 'don't understand the complicated nuances of when serial killing is actually justified'.
But can you say the Israeli children who were slaughtered by Hamas to be complicit in the crimes of the Israeli state against the Palestinians? Shouldn't Hamas be at least have some responsibility for the slaughter of the children? The example you set forth Cindy Hendy was complicit in the murder.
They killed a bunch of civilian innocents, and their strategists have explicitly discussed sacrificing their own innocents. Hamas leadership are hideously evil and trying to defend them is a bad idea that isn't at all necessary to make the case for Palestine
If you think Hamas is evil you really don't understand evil. Observe reality (i.e. the Genocide being live-streamed in Gaza) and then tell me whether "Israel" is evil or somebody else. Also, it is always a good idea to read up on history (over the last 100 years) and not rely on MSM or biased opinions that are not backed up with evidence.
So do you or do you not think that it's evil to sit around and strategize about how you can afford to get lots of other people's kids killed, so might as well go for it? Because that *is* what happened right?
The fact that Israel is horrible also doesn't change this at all so I'm not sure why you immediately go to that.
I don't care if it's "necessary", I will do it anyway.
They are a RESISTANCE MOVEMENT against Fascism and Nazism, and while I may have issues with some of their ideology, they are not sitting having comfortable lives in a Western society with all the modcons like I am fortunate enough to be doing.
Clearly, you simply do not grasp - and its not too hard to guess why - that the eventual fate of the Palestinians was genocide before even the first Zionazi arrived from Europe to steal their land and resources as Colonial Settlers.
I understand your passion and share it. I don't know what you mean "not hard to guess why" but I'll go ahead and not be too insulted yet.
I would just urge you to keep in mind what a lot of people would do if they found themselves led by people who instead of looking out for them cooked up a strategy that intentionally got their kids killed: they would cheerfully turn their guns on those leaders before anyone else. I know I would. So it just doesn't seem like a good strategy to uncritically support Hamas.
It's not too hard to imagine a small group, when herded off the train, deciding to make a charge against the guards. Naturally, the entire group getting off the cattle-trucks would be slaughtered on the spot.
So they would die a few hours earlier than what they would have done anyway.
What exactly have they lost?
There is no point pretending the genocidal Nazis would treat them better, if they just 'kept their heads down', in fact they would despise them even more - which is exactly what happened.
It is not HAMAS that is slaughtering the Palestinians, I might add. Perhaps you missed that bit.
The logic that you use is just pathetic.. again, the Warsaw ghetto uprising comes to mind. What were those deplorable Jews thinking of when they decided to poke their Nazi jailers.. serves them right for being sent to the death chambers. What else would you expect from the Nazis? Both Nazis AND those Polish jews were to blame for Jewish children being toasted alive.. Serves them right.. if they had just kept their heads down and stayed in the ghettos.. so what if they wore a yellow star? So what if they were excluded from public life and treated as subhuman, completely dispossessed and humiliated? They could become useful day laborers to their superior Arian masters.. at least they would still be alive.. I blame the holocaust on the polish jews or at least they share equal responsibility with the Nazis. The only acceptable response to their fate, according to your beautiful logic, was to suffer in silence and wholeheartedly believe in their subhuman station in life.. see how it works?
You don't understand what point these people were in. They were about to go fully down under the bus as there were "Normalisations" being done with Saudi Arabia that would have allowed Israel to do the dirty deed in the dark and keep the Palestinians in prison for ever or worse. This is a last ditch effort that had to be done! It worked. The Israelis are getting their asses fed to them and they will collapse before the Palestinians ever will.
BullShit. Israeli's are all in the military until the age of 45. All the invaders are armed and all of their settlements are covered by security forces. All the Zionist Nazi propaganda in the world will never cover up the truth and lies will never excuse GENOCIDE which is the only issue all the rest is once again BULLSHIT!
The sole purpose the end game in all of this is for the Israelis to build the 3rd King Solomons temple.
They will do whatever it takes to do it even if it means killing their own people, Christians, Muslims etc etc.
You have to understand the bigger picture they truly believe they are gods children the chosen ones, that’s why every living human on the planet that is not Jewish are considered sub-human.
Ask a proper Jew they will not deny this.
All with the help of the USA UK and most of the EU thinking they will be saved when the Jewish messiah arrives.
I am as proper a Jew as you're likely to find on this site. And no, I don't consider myself "chosen". Have you ever wondered chosen for what? As a Jewish person in the U.S. I have been repeatedly discriminated against. Just like with Black people, there are also no magical Jews. We're just people. I've never been inclined to kill anyone although I admit to wishing ill to the money hoarders. I've never been one to decide a person's worth by the label attached to them. Ultimately, we all want the same thing, essentially enough to eat and a safe place to sleep. Determining whether you like or dislike someone based on the label you attach to them is both lazy and ignorant.. Looking at another soul and seeing an individual takes more work, but is far more honest.
Damn they really suck at taking hostages. They killed over a thousand people to take 250 hostages? Hamas seriously sucks at everything except tunnel building and strategically placing munitions in hospitals and schools.
As Paul states below, the Palestinians have the right to resist the occupation of their country. They do not have an army to defend them and it suits the narrative to refer to Hamas as terrorists rather than freedom fighters.
The problem is they weren't defending their innocents, they were deliberately sacrificing them. It was an explicitly discussed strategy. No leaders have the right to do that to the people they supposedly represent, and that includes Hamas.
If you're the leader it's completely evil to do something optional that you know for sure will get a lot of the civilians you're supposedly responsible for killed. Imagine if it was your kid that died that way and you'll have to admit how you'd feel about it.
The absolute lack of moral clarity betrayed in this article is so astonishing, it's hard to know where to begin to address them. Nobody would claim that Israel is completely innocent in all of it's actions, although one could make a compelling argument that everything they do is ultimately in self- defense. But to lie in the article by stating that the media made up the absolutely confirmed fact by videos taken by Hamas themselves that they raped and murdered men and women and even killed them sometimes in the middle of rapes. Some of the hostages who were released confirmed these depraved acts by Hamas. You should be ashamed of yourself for believing the the things you put in your article.
Interesting that your Zionist view circles back to blaming the REAL victim. This has been and continues to be the crux of Zionist propaganda. "Israel is the Victim!". There is a wilful sick blindness in all of you who think this all started on October 7th. Your revisionist history and victimhood is so pathetically ignorant that you cannot understand that you are now reaping what you have sown. 80 years of brutality, ethnic cleansing, apartheid, land theft, murder, lies and propaganda have come to finally haunt you, yet you continue to cry victim. Your victimhood has become a cynical laughable joke. You have learned nothing from your history and you have become a vile and despised people. Hamas are heroes, each and every one of them. They have brought your crimes to the world's attention and you will finally be held accountable.
I wouldn't be living in a Genocidal apartheid state, on stolen land. Let's discuss the IDF shooting of innocent Palestinian children daily for the past many decades... or then again Palestinians don't matter right? More victimhood.
Where do you live? Canada, US, Australia…all western empire settler colonial operations. I’m in Canada. I didn’t choose it, and thought highly of it until I knew better. Do I drive over to the Oneida reservation - 15 minutes away - and tell them I’m here to join their fight against the oppressor, who appears otherwise indistinguishable from me?
I did join in an intersectional rally in Toronto a couple weeks back, uniting Turtle Island First Nations and the Palestinian cause. I’ve been to Ceasefire rallies and events in multiple cities, I was interview by Status Coup News outside Columbia U when the cops went in the first time.
I don’t know what to do. I don’t have money, so i can’t buy off white guilt, if that’s what I am supposed to feel. I am more of an activist than most people but that’s not saying much.
I have a fairly well tuned sense of right and wrong and I am open to good suasion; and as stated elsewhere in these comments, I generally agree with CJ. And here I agree with her point, but feel it is not well made. Others agree with me for the same reason. We struggle on the left against an asymmetrically constrained opponent (who am I kidding? Fascism is unrestrained). Fighting also amongst ourselves only serves the ruling class and their minions.
I too am in Canada. I also understand how you feel, especially about our Colonial heritage. But I can't say there is an apples to apples comparison between that and Palestine. The times are very very different. Palestine is unfolding in front of our eyes. I too feel helplessness and infuriated, but it doesn't stop me from learning and spreading information. Had Oct. 7th happened even 20 years ago, it would have been business as usual and the world would have gobbled up the lies coming out of the Zionist propaganda machine. But despite the Zionist control of media and social platforms we DO have a voice and it is being heard. I have been at this from the start and see how the attention of the world has finally begun to shift with the truth coming out and being disseminated. This would not have been possible without Tiktok, in my view. We can't fix the past, but we can do something about the present.
People drink with the Zionist kool aide always bring the US/Canada ethnic cleansing of their native populations in an attempt to win the argument vis-a-vis Israel/Palestine . Not saying you’re doing it here but it always gets dragged into the convo. First of all, yes, everyone should condemn this act of barbarity that happened several hundred years ago in North America. Just because it happened then doesn’t mean it’s ok for the Israelis to be committing it now (what’s the use of the declaration of universal human rights then??) it’s not like well, we had a go so it’s only fair to allow Israel to do it now.. if you want to improve the situation of the native population in North America, you should be demanding fairer policies towards them (addresses the white guilt part). To he clear, Jews living in Palestine and wider Western Asia is not new and has been totally acceptable by inhabitants of the region. It’s the ethnocentrism and racism of the Israeli state that people in west Asia and most of the world condemn. And so should all the western hemisphere. Otherwise, they can flush down the toilet (which they have) their universal human rights codes and with it the whole liberalism project.. they’re still operating as if those codes were never written.
Again, the Zionists have set the rules of engagement and those rules of engagement are utter horror and savagery. Within that context, being polite on the part of the Palestinians will get them nowhere under the rules of engagement that the Zionists have set out. Talking about the innocent Israeli kids is like trying to blot out the sun with a speck of sand.. not a serious argument at all.
the UN ruled these days there had been sexual brutality on Israeli civilians on October the 7th. We saw how Palestinians fighters carried a semi naked woman and spit on her body in front of the whole world.
Borrell also described Israel as having "created Hamas", but immediately continued saying that "yes, Hamas was financed by Israel to weaken the Palestinian Authority".
What children? 1 toddler caught in the cross fire killed by the terrorist IDF more than likely. Your Zionist Nazi BullShit is showing! No excuse for GENOCIDE!
absolute garbage analogy. The stabbed person was entirely and deliberately involved, most Israelis aren't and no Palestinian children are (and Hamas strategists have explicitly discussed sacrificing their innocents, in case there was any doubt).
ALL Israeli ARE involved - all of them. For 80 years they have supported the apartheid state and benefitted from the stolen Palestinian land. They are all complicit in 80 years of war crimes. Do you hold citizens of Nazi Germany who lived off the avails, land and possessions of Jews guilty? "Likened to serial killers?.".. why not? There is a society/group mentality that makes the Zionist crimes normal and accepted. the crimes of THAT society are clear and evident. The Israeli population accepts it and supports it as we speak! What is the difference between 15 people killed by a serial killer and a large group of people who support and pay for a genocide? Just numbers, and please don't compare adults to children.
Nope a lot of them have consistently opposed the ongoing theft, you just find it convenient to ignore that in order to justify collective violence against them. This is exactly what Israelis do. And please don't imply that adults are necessarily less innocent than children. Children are guaranteed to be innocent, but adults may be also.
A lot of them have opposed the ongoing theft?! Where do you get your stats?? Those that oppose the theft are a tiny minority.. the overwhelming majority of Israelis are and have been absolutely fine with killing off the Palestinians and stealing their land.
The majority support what has happened over the years.
Now if you want a distinction, foreign residing Jewish people (but not the 23,000 US citizens who are in Israel fighting with the IDF) are not as supportive of these criminal acts by Israel. as are the residents of Israel.
Plenty of evidence for that. A small example,,,,,,
"The Jewish Council of Australia renews our calls for the Albanese Government to use all possible diplomatic pressure to stop Israel committing the crime of genocide."
Albanese government? Sadly, little chance of that happening.
Of course, with the Jewish shekels flying thick and fast into the pockets of 86% of all US politicians (including the disgraceful candidate for President, Nikki Haley (as she signs the US donated stockpile of bombs in Israel with a "finish them" comment), seen as a very worthy candidate ( based on current US values ), one is unlikely to see any change in support for humanity in Rafah from that direction. But it does show that many Jewish people who have been brought up in a different environment from Kibbutz-trained Israelis ( therefore not as brainwashed ), are more realistic and less likely to follow the leaders who receive all their electoral funding from the Jewish lobby in most of the electorates in the USA.
But the same level of parasitic infiltration occurs in most of the white / anglo countries as well, all believing that "Israel has the right to defend itself", a phrase that is becoming as well used as ' Holocaust' and 'anti-Semitism' but somewhat sickening to those who place value on the truth.
I think this has to be said on this comment stream because I'm sure I am not the only person here who was raised by a Jewish parent (my mother was Catholic).
I take great OFFENSE with the mention of Jewish versus Zionist. The criminals creating this entire disgusting genocide are Zionists, and in particular from an EXTREME RIGHT WING ZIONIST party which is just like this analogy---> Zionism is to Judaism as the KKK is to Christianity. OR as an 'update' WHITE SUPREMACIST to Christianity.
THIS colonialism, land grabbing, apartheid, starving, slaughtering, exterminating, ethnic cleansing... bombing hospitals & schools, targeting pregnant women, mostly women & children and burying people alive, operating withOUT anesthesia...
There is a HUGE difference between people who practice the religion of Judaism and these monsters, real Jews use the Holocaust as a cautionary tale, Zionists use it as their play book.
What makes Israel have any rights above laws, International world laws that also the corrupt USA dares to threaten the ICC with sanctions and you, any of you believe this is for world peace or is anywhere near normal? It is just as evil as the Nazis and any Mafia. It is about world dominance, and the fall of the US empire is nearing... it is about those billions of dollars of gas and oil off the coast of Gaza. It is about the typical... money and power. Israel is not for long and what makes them any different than Germany for thinking for one minute that it is acceptable for a whole state to be one religion?! Who the hell do they think they are?!
One clarification please. It isn't Jewish Shekels flying thick and fast. It's billions of US taxpayer dollars being funnelled back. That's the brilliant part of it. This hasn't cost the Zionists a penny! Billions in US funding with a kickback scheme to keep it flowing. Typical third world politics. This is what the American taxpayer needs to understand, even if they side with Israel.
If you voluntarily settle in Israel, then you support genocide and ethnic cleansing of Palestinians. Majority of second passport Israelis that have settled in Israel are die hard Zionazis.
This just isn't true and it illustrates one of the big risks of viewing countries as monolithic. The mainstream Israeli press and much of the rest of Israeli cultural apparatus has for decades excoriated the settler movement, they just gradually lost the fight to a growing and politically motivated minority.
Pete, I see your point about current residents benefitting from prior land grabs. But do you acknowledge that there should be a statute of limitations on those disputes? If not, what do you want for Israel? Two-state? One-state? I don’t see where your point leads.
The only solution is the dismantling of Israel. All logic, humanity, and international law leads to that conclusion. Why, in this day and age are we supporting a state built completely upon stolen land and the ethnic cleansing of that land for the stated benefit of one "race" who have again, stated that they are a superior race. You say "PRIOR land grabs". The land grab continues daily in the settlements and now with the stated end goal of turning the Gazan beach into condos. Did you hear about the "Israel Real Estate events" that have been popping up across the US since Oct. 7th? Additionally, the Zionist goal and expansionist agenda is not just for Palestine. It includes Jordan, Syria, Lebanon and norther Egypt. That is my point. This won't end until Israel is dismantled and a REAL secular state is established with the right of return for Palestinians to their land, as stated under International Law. Yes, it seems like a pipe dream, but it is possible. Until then, everything Israel does is just recruitment incentive for resistance fighters, and rightfully so.
I disagree with your position, but I see that it's built on principles. You say, "a state built completely upon stolen land..." but there was the UN 181 that partitioned the area. Do you regard that as a theft? Why not go back to those borders--both sides take half a loaf?
Again, someone else "partitioned the area" without consultation or the consent of the Palestinians, to create a racist state. There is nothing good about the creation and continuation of "Israel". These "partitions" gave all of the best land to Israel, there is no dispute in that. How do you expect the Palestinians to agree to any of that? Capitulation has been expected of them for 80 years, and it is wrong. They have been bullied, corrupted, deceived and lied to continuously. For one minute, put yourself in their position. Do I consider UN 181 as theft? Well tell me how that worked out for the Palestinians? The Zionists have never had any intention for a 2 state solution. This is fact, despite the obfuscation, excuses, lies and propaganda that the world has been fed. The west cries about justice when it suits them. Where has the justice been for the Palestinians? It has been the opposite. The west has funded and supported this farce long enough and it's time to do the right thing. I submit again, that the only truly lasting, and just answer is the dismantling of the illegal, rogue "state" of Israel.
I totally agree Elyse. Imagine what the reaction would have been if someone in the 1940s had publicly remarked that the US/UK carpet bombing of Germany and its destruction of all of itsI major cities was not justified by the Germans small scale attempt to bomb England at the start of the war. In my opinion they would have been justified in their remarks. But it would have got the same reaction as pointing out that the Hamas attempt to attack the occupying power Israel was sad and wrong but small and almost inconsequential compared to what has happened as a response . And to add to that independent people who viewed the scene hold that many of the victims were killed by the Israeli response in tanks and ariel bombing . But the loudest and most powerful voices are the ones we listen to and respect.
I agree. I won't condemn Hamas because I don't know what I, or anyone else, would do if forced to live in an open-air prison for decades, whilst having witnessed my family, friends and neighbours be routinely slaughtered by genocidal racist fanatics.
We don't know if the Gaza resistance killed any child. They may have been killed by the indiscriminate tank and Apache helicopter fire from the Zionist military.
I agree. You make an excellent comparison! But I have a further reason as to why I support what Hamas' military wing did on October 7 2023 ... the Palestinians were exercising their right to resist under international law! The military breakout and assault on southern Israel was legitimate.
Palestinians have a recognized right under Protocol I of the Geneva Conventions to resist Israeli occupation and that is what they were doing on October 7.
I've seen some video that definitely appeared to show Hamas massacre's of unarmed civilians, in one case, shot from behind trying to flee. I cannot claim to have 100% verified it but it could easily be genuine. I'm wary about supporting a terrorist act against a civilian like that but I am also well aware that very, very few Israeli's living that close to Gaza are fans of Palestinians & there's an extremely good chance this guy was running to get his weapon, rather than away. Almost all settlers that close to Palestinian territories are highly trained & well armed. So although we have an apparent case of an unarmed civilians being murdered by a terrorist, we can actually have little true idea of the context of the incident. For all we know, this guy has already shot at Hamas & then dropped his gun to run away, & then been shot running.
We also must understand that Israel has taught apartheid in their school system from its inception. It’s not at all surprising that most Israelis treat Palestinians as they do.
Read the work of Nurit Peled-Elhanan. She’s authored a book on it titled, Creating Palestine in Israeli School Books: Ideology and Propaganda in Education. Watch her videos. Hope this is useful unless yours was a rhetorical question..
We really need a full unbiased investigation to get to the bottom of what all happened that day. It seems it was not just Hamas but also other groups and possibly individuals who left the gates of Gaza. Is it clear who’s in the videos? Are their identities known or is there an assumption that they’re Hamas? I’ve heard NO in-depth analysis of what happened from the perspective of Hamas leadership, but have heard a great deal from Israeli sources. Not a recipe for getting at truth
If you are going to argue that Hamas can and did act in accordance with the Geneva Conventions, then should they not act and follow al the convention's avoids accords?
How many Israeli children were killed? How many Palestinian children have been killed or imprisoned over the past 80 years? Which "side" is fighting for land stolen from them and the freedom to live on it, with no army, no Billion dollar US tax payer funding, no western media propaganda and lies support? Tell me!
This is pure "whataboutism," like watching Fox News. No amount of Israeli crimes excuses Hamas's violence against Israeli children and against their own fellow Palestinian citizens.
So many of you don't seem to get that both actors over the last nine months can be wrong. It doesn't have to be one evil versus a bunch of saints. But you called Hamas "heroes"! WTF?! They are medieval zealots who use innocent blood to hold on to power. They oppress their own people. They should not be in control of Gaza, and you shouldn't be equating them with their Palestinian victims.
Medieval zealots? This is an ignorant Islamophobic trope. Israelis who think they deserve the land and are entitled to ethnically cleanse all non-Jews from the territories are the real zealots, and that very thinking is the foundation of the Jewish state.
You don't see zealots on both sides? I am against both colonialist zealots who maintain apartheid states AND religious zealots who oppress their women with archaic laws and force the public to support their violent acts.
As I said, these are the typical anti-Muslim tropes used to smear a people who have been under a brutal military siege for 18 years and repeatedly bombed, and these have nothing to do with the matter at hand, nor are they based on real tangible concerns. In Gaza I see a large number of highly educated and professional women. They are doctors, engineers, dentists, professors, journalists, etc. - those who haven’t been slaughtered by Israel. Who are YOU to tell the people of Palestine who their leaders should be? Stop skirting the real issue: an ethnonationalist state forcibly expelling and killing people in order to usurp the land exclusively for their own ‘superior’ kind. This has been going on for nearly 80 years.
Men-with-guns are the problem. They are always the problem. Men-with-guns always want to speak too soon and too often, they unironically misappropriate the miseries of others to justify their actions, and they think the only answer to other men-with-guns, is More-Men-With-More-Guns.
Yes, both sides can be co-opted by bad-faith zealots.
This does not mean resistance to occupation is not justified, nor does it mean men-with-guns are never justified.
Like abortion, both should be vanishingly rare. In the case of the former, that’s where men have the solution right in their, um, hands:
Don’t Shoot!
(EJACULATE RESPONSIBLY).
For those needing further clarification there’s a book:
John Brown wasn’t the oppressed. He was a crazy christian white guy who killed people in the name of someone else’s oppression. He set back the struggle for black liberation by decades. Hamas are the oppressed. And the Palestinians are martyrs for freedom everywhere.
Odd take. John Borwn's insurrection took place in 1859. He was a pretty marginal figure at the time of his execution. Fringe.
A few years after that, the Emancipation Proclamation was declared. For that matter, if you had asked people in 1859 whether in the next ten years, slavery would be ended as a matter of constitutional law, blacks would have the right to vote and there would be black senators, governors and representatives, they would have declared you a dangerous nut.
But all those things happened. and Union troops sang marching songs in praise of John Brown.
As far as John Brown not being oppressed, he did give his life for others who were oppressed. He didn't have to do that. I get that you don't like the man for whatever reason, but come on.
Feral, you are rarely wrong but on this, a big F. John Brown was a religious zealot and repeat failure by his own actions—that’s not oppression. Everything he touched to make money went tits up, even tho he kept popping out kids until he had about 20 of them. Yes, he joined the abolitionists and tried to wage war on those who disagreed with him when he found he could make money in a normal way, but that’s no different than today's Trumpians—can’t succeed so shoot somebody. His elevation to Abolitionist hero was all propaganda—white people who had done little to help the Blacks in the movement glommed onto him so they wouldn’t look so feckless. Try to remember that “his-story” is mostly bullshit and John Brown’s is war propaganda, one of the most opaque of all.
you're half right here (about John Brown) but full truth is Hamas leadership is hideously evil they have explicit strategy of sacrificing their own innocents and murdering civs, and for mostly obvious reasons Israel fucking loves it. Supporting or excusing Hamas is a huge mistake
You got the wrong end of the stick.. Hamas are not evil because msm says so.. the human shields schtick is up and you know it.. no one believes it anymore.. also, which civilians did Hamas murder? If they’re hideously evil as you say then Israel must be Satan himself.. just compare the number of civilians Israel kills compared to Hamas and you have your answer
This has nothing to do with the human shields argument.
If your leaders deliberately instigated a violent conflict with a much stronger neighbor who ended up killing your kids I doubt very much that you'd have any trouble figuring out that your leaders betrayed you. I guess opinions about exactly how bad this kind of betrayal is may vary, but for me it's about as bad as it gets. Does it seem only slightly bad to you? If so why?
If Hamas really was as hideously evil as you claim, you'd think there would be a surfeit of genuine evidence and Zionists and neocons wouldn't have to resort to so many crude fakes.
I don't condemn a kid who punches his bully after being serially mistreated, but I do condemn Dylan Klebold. I would also condemn a police response that kills all of the people in Klebold's neighborhood. That still wouldn't make his actions right. How hard is that to understand?
Lousy analogy. Did the folks at Columbine High evict the Klebolds from their home at gunpoint? Did Klebold attack Columbine in order to recover what was rightfully his?
In principle I cannot agree with the taking of civilian hostages. But I *can* understand the impetus. And there’s a big difference.
On the other hand, those who choose to live on others’ stolen land and subject them to horrendous sub-human treatment should be required to accept the risks that come with their actions. It’s illogical to accept their special pleadings, obfuscations and lies.
The settler mind sees itself as victim while victimizing, as victimizing because the victims require it, as necessary and therefore not evil.
Then you must strongly take issue with Israel’s Palestinian hostages that have been wasting away in Israeli prisons with no rights whatsoever and no due process..that’s the only thing you need to understand..
Again, racism. White settlers tried the same trope of manifest destiny when they colonized the new world and otherised and dehumanized the indigenous population.. It’s like fashion, you end up recycling old designs and pretending it’s new..
Agree, but let's not lose sight of the fact that in the colonial era, it was largely accepted that Europe should get rid of its Jewish minority by shipping them off to a Third World area.
Powerful analogy which we can arguably extend as follows: The Criminals cleverly allowed the victim’s “attack” and escape knowing the ostensibly trustworthy authorities, police & press, wouldn’t believe her story, instead repeating the perps’ dominant narrative that theirs’ was a God given right to rid the town of undesirables.
The point the analogy is making is that the violent, ice pick response was appropriate given the context. The ice pick murder happened at the individual level, the Palestine genocide is happening at the nation/people level. Israel is a country whose overwhelming majority is supportive of a regime which was built on the violent displacement of the prior inhabitants, and which continues to support a policy of containment and extinction of those remaining. The notion of innocent Israeli individuals is a red herring. Caitlin has previously characterized the HAMAS attack as a prison revolt, another illuminating parallel. You imprison a people, what you get is on you.
October 7 was an inside job. This is OBVIOUS for anyone caring to see with their own eyes: Israel had the most secure border on Earth. IDF STOOD DOWN for 6 hours, came in with heavy artillery, blasted everything, and blamed "Hamas": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMXllVmTuKQ&t=18s
... of the "let it happen" kind, where plenty of "damning" evidence is produced by the "unprovoked" patsy perps for the narrative-builders. Of note, just like 9/11.
I agree. I’ve seen an excellent analysis on Al Jazeera. There are actually 3 fences. The third is a concrete wall with surveillance towers and cameras monitored 24/7. The cameras have a range of 6 miles I believe. The towers also have remote controlled machine guns. Between the high tech second fence and the concrete wall is a swath of land normally patrolled at all times. There’s no way that anyone could even approach the first fence without Israel knowing. And how did they get pickup trucks through the concrete wall without Israeli assistance? Netanyahu was more than willing to sacrifice a bunch of kibbutzim peaceniks (that he supposedly despised) for the opportunity to destroy Gaza and commit a genocide.
Hamas wanted to engage with the military. Some reports said many expected to die. The ones who would survive wanted to take military hostages to Gaza to exchange for the hundreds of Palestinians held in Israeli jails, many with no charges. It’s administrative detention.
It took the Israeli military 6 hours to respond. They had left many of the monitoring positions empty, no one was manning the remotely controlled machine guns on the fence, and they’d moved most of the military that normally guards the fence into the West Bank. An Israeli soldier who had served on the Gaza border said it takes only 6 minutes to get the helicopters in the air. There’s video of Hamas driving around looking for someone to engage with.
Only a few days prior to 10/7 they had moved the music festival closer to the fence. Why would you place unprotected young people next to an open air prison where you’d imposed a blockade for 17 years and through multiple bombing attacks had destroyed much of the infrastructure over the last 12+ years? It’s pretty unrealistic to think that you can cage 2.3 million people, exercising total control over who and what can enter or leave, while denying them the basic necessities of life, and believe yourself to be completely safe.
I don’t like to see anyone harmed in any way. I’m not saying that I agree with everything that happened on 10/7 but I’m also not surprised. The Palestinians have the right to resist, with force, the occupier, Israel. That doesn’t mean that they aren’t held to the recognized rules of engagement. Israel’s brutal oppression of the people of Gaza is what caused the attack by Hamas. If Palestinians had not been driven from their homes, 80% of the Gaza population are refugees or descendants of refugees, if the Zionists had been willing to live peacefully with the Christian and Muslim population, there would have been peace and security for all. The Zionists wanted all of the land and none of the people that were living there.
once again, Caitlin brings sanity to an insane position that western media has inculcated the masses with. The world should be reading Caitlin Johnson every day as inoculation against the pernicious disease of western journalism.
Imagine David Parker Ray and Cindy Hendy had been paid police informants because they were connected to other local criminals. The police knew David Parker Ray and Cindy Hendy were criminals, but because Ray and Hendy were a good and/or maybe the only source the police had for information about the other criminals, the police and Ray/Hendy were “joined at the hip.” The police go after Cynthia Vigil with the ice pick charge to protect their Ray/Hendy informants.
Your scenario above assumes that the police are the "good guys" working with criminals (David Parker Ray and Cindy Hendy) to catch more "bad guys".
The Israel scenario is different. Israel are the "bad guys" (there is ample evidence from history to prove that) that are working with other "bad guys" to catch and kill the "good guys" (Palestinians).
Excellent, this analogy. Hamas did not expect to have no resistance at all, they expected mostly to die fighting within a few short hours and pick up some hostages to swap with Palestinians that are also robbed of freedom without process. Masha Gessen is a great resource, Masha called is the razing of the ghetto.
“Condemn” is newspeak for symbolizing your dedication and loyalty to the transnational white colonial enterprise. It’s basic the “heil h£&&&r” of our time.
Yes if we don't say the right words; we condemn Hamas, full-scale, unprovoked, illegal invasion when referring to the Russian SMO or if we questioned any covid measure it means that we are morally bad, Putin sympathisers and we don't care about old people. We are unpatriotic and disloyal and therefore have no right to take part in any political nor scientific debate.
This is how they frame our need to know who's good and who's bad to their advantage. If we don't agree with the framing we are bad people and not allowed a voice.
We must “condemn” every for the crime of being targeted by the colonial overlords. The Yemeni’s, the Libyans, the Afghans. the Iraqis. The Malians. The Palestinians.
Even the Chinese and the Russians must be condemned for being encircled too.
At some point the sheep need to stop condemning and start asking questions.
We are definitely living in a dystopian, Orwellian society at this time and it’s driving me insane. Wrong is right and right is wrong. To quote Bob Dylan’s song, “Along the Watch Tower”: There must be some way out of here, I can’t get no relief.🥲☮️🇵🇸
Yes 'condemn' has become the media word. We are not asked; do we agree that Hamas did acts of terrorism such as the killing of 'civilians'; just like enslaved people revolting and killing their white 'owners' did (though this is now remembered as heroism)?
It's do we condemn them for it?
It's such a weird framing of the issue. Do we personally judge them and find them wanting? What has what we think got to do with anything?
It's just to repeat (like Piers Moron did) the words 'condemn' and 'Hamas' next to each other in the same sentence over and over and over again.
Caitlin, what a perfect analogy this is! You continue to amaze me with your dedication to analyzing this horrific atrocity from every angle and writing some of the most gut wrenching, moving and yet essential articles about the historic unimaginable genocide in Gaza. You will go down in history as one of the top authors whose articles will be remembered as righteous, factual, moral and ethical. Thank you so much for your talent, creativity, truthfulness and feelings. From Julian Assange to Aaron Bushnell to Palestine, you truly reach my heart and soul! Brava Caitlin, BRAVA!
L I H O P
The analogy is missing some elements:
It would be a closer analogy if serial killer David Parker Ray intentionally left the ice pick where Cynthia Vigil could use it to "jail break" by stabbing jail guard Cindy Hendy.
Serial Killer Ray then pursued Cynthia Vigil who took refuge in a family's home.
He then opened fire on the home pretending as if he was trying to kill Vigil, but being the maniac that he was, he was actually trying to score kills on the family as well as seize their home.
The police arrived and stood guard while serial killer Ray tried to ostensibly kill Cynthia Vigil.
When serial killer Ray ran low on ammunition the police dutifully supplied him with more and better ammunition.
Protestors arrived that were anti-serial-killing. These were later followed by counter protestors that were pro-serial-killing.
A US senator commenced to seek the passage of a bill to invite Serial Killer David Ray Parker to speak before both Houses of Congress.
---
Come on, folks.
Shout it out. It was L I H O P !
On Friday Netanyahu **was** invited to speak before both Houses of Congress.
Bernie Sanders says he will not attend.
However, Bernie wants us to believe that once Netanyahu is gone then we have seen the last of the serial killers and we can all go back to pretending that Israel is a special kind of place.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/bernie-sanders-blasts-netanyahu-invite-to-congress-refuses-to-attend-speech-by-war-criminal/ar-BB1nsuX7
I agree. Netanyahu is a narcissistic sociopath but his removal will change little. The rest of the Knesset isn’t much better and the Israeli public seems to be ok with decimating Gaza as long as the captives are returned.
I have no faith in Israel’s agreement to this deal. They are still saying they’ll keep bombing and destroying Gaza until they get rid of Hamas. As Hamas rules Gaza who will they negotiate with if they don’t accept hamas’s government. I think they are simply bowing to international pressure to get some aid in. As soon as the 6 weeks are up they’ll go right back to business as usual and who will stop them?
There doesn’t seem to be any concrete plans to truly remove Israeli troops from all of Gaza. There’s no mention of lifting the blockade of Gaza permanently and Netanyahu certainly hasn’t made any statement accepting a two state solution. After the Israelis get back at least some hostages and let some aid in I think they’ll say there’s no way to resolve their differences, still have to destroy Hamas for their “security”, blame Hamas for not turning themselves in, and just start bombing again.
This isn’t a peace deal it’s another “pause”. Medical services can’t be restored in any meaningful way in 6 weeks with the hospitals destroyed, roads torn up and rubble everywhere. The ambulances that haven’t been destroyed will have no way to reach people. Reasonable housing options with adequate water, food, fuel, etc can’t be restored in 6 weeks. The waste management systems can’t be rebuilt in 6 weeks. All they can do is attempt to distribute food and water to people living in makeshift tents with no sanitation or means for washing themselves, clothes, dishes, etc. It will be even worse than the other “pauses” because the physical destruction is so much greater and the people are so exhausted from the struggle for survival without adequate food, water, or medical care. The people of Gaza have lost everything - their homes, their belongings, and their loved ones. Those who aren’t murdered by Israel will carry the physical and psychological scars for the rest of their lives. To hold out this false promise of an end to the nightmare is cruel beyond belief.
Yes, it's a tremendous FARCE that is being perpetrated! Israel, of course, can not be trusted about anything they may promise. This disingenuous 'agreement' is simply another load of bullshit that only cretins will believe in - a prelude to more of the same.
Yes. Thanks .A pretty accurate summation of the situation I would say.
Whatever the negotiated settlement, you can't trust the Israelis, because they lie constantly and have ulterior motives.
Their real intention is to ethnically cleanse Palestinians from Gaza and the West Bank, so in the sense of having destroyed most of Gaza's homes and infrastructure, they're pretty much closer to their goal now of making the place uninhabitable.
Now they just have to get rid of the million and a half homeless people, either by killing them, or getting the Americans to take them out through the floating pier the US built, perhaps with that in mind too.
So the mindful killing will go on unless Israel is stopped.
The only possibility I see for rescuing the Palestinians in Gaza is for a military attack on Israel by Egypt, with Turkey providing air cover of a no-fly zone over Gaza, and Iran's involvement through supporting its proxies in the region in the 'Arc of resistance' withHezbollah in Lebanon, and the other anti Israeli groups in Iraq and Syria joining in and attacking Israel, as they have been doing in the past
The big question would be how much direct military support the US would give to Israe,l if it meant attacking a NATO ally in Turkey, and a former ally in Egypt.
Then there's the penultimate question of whether then a stricken Israel would use nuclear weapons to strike back at its enemies in the region.
Whatever happens, the endings for everyone involved are likely to be very messy!
Is the war in Ukr. connected to the war in Palestine ? I think - yes. Think deeper !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JS-3QssVPeg
I supported Bernie against Hillary, and then against trump. But I don't trust him. Sadly, he loves 'israel' too much.
Oh also anti-serial-killing protestors keep getting fired and dragged in front of different committees while pro-serial-killing protestors cannot be questioned. Whenever someone tries they're told they 'don't understand the complicated nuances of when serial killing is actually justified'.
Lol brilliant! Funnnny!
wait…(shit)…not funny…
#CeaseFireNOW!!
From me also, Elyse.
No need to explain your rational thinking to anyone on these pages, Caitlin.
The supremacy of reason in your writings is hard to challenge by anyone…..except the rightwing media, of course.
But can you say the Israeli children who were slaughtered by Hamas to be complicit in the crimes of the Israeli state against the Palestinians? Shouldn't Hamas be at least have some responsibility for the slaughter of the children? The example you set forth Cindy Hendy was complicit in the murder.
As a read of the ISRAELI media will tell you, Hamas did not deliberately kill a single Israeli child. The couple that died were obvious accidents.
This was not a genocidal attempt by Hamas, but to gain hostages ALIVE.
If you cannot grasp the distinction, I'm sorry for you.
They killed a bunch of civilian innocents, and their strategists have explicitly discussed sacrificing their own innocents. Hamas leadership are hideously evil and trying to defend them is a bad idea that isn't at all necessary to make the case for Palestine
>>"Hamas leadership are hideously evil"
HaHa - please don't kill me with laughter...
If you think Hamas is evil you really don't understand evil. Observe reality (i.e. the Genocide being live-streamed in Gaza) and then tell me whether "Israel" is evil or somebody else. Also, it is always a good idea to read up on history (over the last 100 years) and not rely on MSM or biased opinions that are not backed up with evidence.
So do you or do you not think that it's evil to sit around and strategize about how you can afford to get lots of other people's kids killed, so might as well go for it? Because that *is* what happened right?
The fact that Israel is horrible also doesn't change this at all so I'm not sure why you immediately go to that.
I don't care if it's "necessary", I will do it anyway.
They are a RESISTANCE MOVEMENT against Fascism and Nazism, and while I may have issues with some of their ideology, they are not sitting having comfortable lives in a Western society with all the modcons like I am fortunate enough to be doing.
Clearly, you simply do not grasp - and its not too hard to guess why - that the eventual fate of the Palestinians was genocide before even the first Zionazi arrived from Europe to steal their land and resources as Colonial Settlers.
Well, I do know that even if you don't.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Gun-Olive-Branch-Violence-Middle/dp/0571219454
I understand your passion and share it. I don't know what you mean "not hard to guess why" but I'll go ahead and not be too insulted yet.
I would just urge you to keep in mind what a lot of people would do if they found themselves led by people who instead of looking out for them cooked up a strategy that intentionally got their kids killed: they would cheerfully turn their guns on those leaders before anyone else. I know I would. So it just doesn't seem like a good strategy to uncritically support Hamas.
Ever been to Oświęcim? I have.
It's not too hard to imagine a small group, when herded off the train, deciding to make a charge against the guards. Naturally, the entire group getting off the cattle-trucks would be slaughtered on the spot.
So they would die a few hours earlier than what they would have done anyway.
What exactly have they lost?
There is no point pretending the genocidal Nazis would treat them better, if they just 'kept their heads down', in fact they would despise them even more - which is exactly what happened.
It is not HAMAS that is slaughtering the Palestinians, I might add. Perhaps you missed that bit.
The logic that you use is just pathetic.. again, the Warsaw ghetto uprising comes to mind. What were those deplorable Jews thinking of when they decided to poke their Nazi jailers.. serves them right for being sent to the death chambers. What else would you expect from the Nazis? Both Nazis AND those Polish jews were to blame for Jewish children being toasted alive.. Serves them right.. if they had just kept their heads down and stayed in the ghettos.. so what if they wore a yellow star? So what if they were excluded from public life and treated as subhuman, completely dispossessed and humiliated? They could become useful day laborers to their superior Arian masters.. at least they would still be alive.. I blame the holocaust on the polish jews or at least they share equal responsibility with the Nazis. The only acceptable response to their fate, according to your beautiful logic, was to suffer in silence and wholeheartedly believe in their subhuman station in life.. see how it works?
"I understand your passion and share it." - ah, a typical hasbara intro. How's that internship going? You're getting pounded here.
You don't understand what point these people were in. They were about to go fully down under the bus as there were "Normalisations" being done with Saudi Arabia that would have allowed Israel to do the dirty deed in the dark and keep the Palestinians in prison for ever or worse. This is a last ditch effort that had to be done! It worked. The Israelis are getting their asses fed to them and they will collapse before the Palestinians ever will.
BullShit. Israeli's are all in the military until the age of 45. All the invaders are armed and all of their settlements are covered by security forces. All the Zionist Nazi propaganda in the world will never cover up the truth and lies will never excuse GENOCIDE which is the only issue all the rest is once again BULLSHIT!
teenagers aren't foreigners aren't and they don't have a choice
A fantastic analogy Caitlin.
However a lot of people are missing the point.
The sole purpose the end game in all of this is for the Israelis to build the 3rd King Solomons temple.
They will do whatever it takes to do it even if it means killing their own people, Christians, Muslims etc etc.
You have to understand the bigger picture they truly believe they are gods children the chosen ones, that’s why every living human on the planet that is not Jewish are considered sub-human.
Ask a proper Jew they will not deny this.
All with the help of the USA UK and most of the EU thinking they will be saved when the Jewish messiah arrives.
I am as proper a Jew as you're likely to find on this site. And no, I don't consider myself "chosen". Have you ever wondered chosen for what? As a Jewish person in the U.S. I have been repeatedly discriminated against. Just like with Black people, there are also no magical Jews. We're just people. I've never been inclined to kill anyone although I admit to wishing ill to the money hoarders. I've never been one to decide a person's worth by the label attached to them. Ultimately, we all want the same thing, essentially enough to eat and a safe place to sleep. Determining whether you like or dislike someone based on the label you attach to them is both lazy and ignorant.. Looking at another soul and seeing an individual takes more work, but is far more honest.
Damn they really suck at taking hostages. They killed over a thousand people to take 250 hostages? Hamas seriously sucks at everything except tunnel building and strategically placing munitions in hospitals and schools.
They also beheaded an Asian citizen in Beeri. This is known, and it is part of the video being shown to journalists. Sure, this was not deliberate...
Of course, just like Israel also tells they don't kill innocent civilians deliberately. Hamas killed willingly innocent civilians.
As Paul states below, the Palestinians have the right to resist the occupation of their country. They do not have an army to defend them and it suits the narrative to refer to Hamas as terrorists rather than freedom fighters.
The problem is they weren't defending their innocents, they were deliberately sacrificing them. It was an explicitly discussed strategy. No leaders have the right to do that to the people they supposedly represent, and that includes Hamas.
If you're the leader it's completely evil to do something optional that you know for sure will get a lot of the civilians you're supposedly responsible for killed. Imagine if it was your kid that died that way and you'll have to admit how you'd feel about it.
Th
The absolute lack of moral clarity betrayed in this article is so astonishing, it's hard to know where to begin to address them. Nobody would claim that Israel is completely innocent in all of it's actions, although one could make a compelling argument that everything they do is ultimately in self- defense. But to lie in the article by stating that the media made up the absolutely confirmed fact by videos taken by Hamas themselves that they raped and murdered men and women and even killed them sometimes in the middle of rapes. Some of the hostages who were released confirmed these depraved acts by Hamas. You should be ashamed of yourself for believing the the things you put in your article.
How much did they pay you to write that? Or are you merely blind, deaf, and dumb?
Interesting that your Zionist view circles back to blaming the REAL victim. This has been and continues to be the crux of Zionist propaganda. "Israel is the Victim!". There is a wilful sick blindness in all of you who think this all started on October 7th. Your revisionist history and victimhood is so pathetically ignorant that you cannot understand that you are now reaping what you have sown. 80 years of brutality, ethnic cleansing, apartheid, land theft, murder, lies and propaganda have come to finally haunt you, yet you continue to cry victim. Your victimhood has become a cynical laughable joke. You have learned nothing from your history and you have become a vile and despised people. Hamas are heroes, each and every one of them. They have brought your crimes to the world's attention and you will finally be held accountable.
👍spot on
Very well said 👍
100% accurate and perfectly stated!
So you justify the killing of innocent Israeli children? If you were one of their parents, probably not.
I wouldn't be living in a Genocidal apartheid state, on stolen land. Let's discuss the IDF shooting of innocent Palestinian children daily for the past many decades... or then again Palestinians don't matter right? More victimhood.
Where do you live? Canada, US, Australia…all western empire settler colonial operations. I’m in Canada. I didn’t choose it, and thought highly of it until I knew better. Do I drive over to the Oneida reservation - 15 minutes away - and tell them I’m here to join their fight against the oppressor, who appears otherwise indistinguishable from me?
I did join in an intersectional rally in Toronto a couple weeks back, uniting Turtle Island First Nations and the Palestinian cause. I’ve been to Ceasefire rallies and events in multiple cities, I was interview by Status Coup News outside Columbia U when the cops went in the first time.
I don’t know what to do. I don’t have money, so i can’t buy off white guilt, if that’s what I am supposed to feel. I am more of an activist than most people but that’s not saying much.
I have a fairly well tuned sense of right and wrong and I am open to good suasion; and as stated elsewhere in these comments, I generally agree with CJ. And here I agree with her point, but feel it is not well made. Others agree with me for the same reason. We struggle on the left against an asymmetrically constrained opponent (who am I kidding? Fascism is unrestrained). Fighting also amongst ourselves only serves the ruling class and their minions.
I too am in Canada. I also understand how you feel, especially about our Colonial heritage. But I can't say there is an apples to apples comparison between that and Palestine. The times are very very different. Palestine is unfolding in front of our eyes. I too feel helplessness and infuriated, but it doesn't stop me from learning and spreading information. Had Oct. 7th happened even 20 years ago, it would have been business as usual and the world would have gobbled up the lies coming out of the Zionist propaganda machine. But despite the Zionist control of media and social platforms we DO have a voice and it is being heard. I have been at this from the start and see how the attention of the world has finally begun to shift with the truth coming out and being disseminated. This would not have been possible without Tiktok, in my view. We can't fix the past, but we can do something about the present.
People drink with the Zionist kool aide always bring the US/Canada ethnic cleansing of their native populations in an attempt to win the argument vis-a-vis Israel/Palestine . Not saying you’re doing it here but it always gets dragged into the convo. First of all, yes, everyone should condemn this act of barbarity that happened several hundred years ago in North America. Just because it happened then doesn’t mean it’s ok for the Israelis to be committing it now (what’s the use of the declaration of universal human rights then??) it’s not like well, we had a go so it’s only fair to allow Israel to do it now.. if you want to improve the situation of the native population in North America, you should be demanding fairer policies towards them (addresses the white guilt part). To he clear, Jews living in Palestine and wider Western Asia is not new and has been totally acceptable by inhabitants of the region. It’s the ethnocentrism and racism of the Israeli state that people in west Asia and most of the world condemn. And so should all the western hemisphere. Otherwise, they can flush down the toilet (which they have) their universal human rights codes and with it the whole liberalism project.. they’re still operating as if those codes were never written.
Again, the Zionists have set the rules of engagement and those rules of engagement are utter horror and savagery. Within that context, being polite on the part of the Palestinians will get them nowhere under the rules of engagement that the Zionists have set out. Talking about the innocent Israeli kids is like trying to blot out the sun with a speck of sand.. not a serious argument at all.
the UN ruled these days there had been sexual brutality on Israeli civilians on October the 7th. We saw how Palestinians fighters carried a semi naked woman and spit on her body in front of the whole world.
You do not know WHO killed those children. You postulate based on ignorance fed to you by state controlled media.
Israel funded Hamas ...
Borrell also described Israel as having "created Hamas", but immediately continued saying that "yes, Hamas was financed by Israel to weaken the Palestinian Authority".
Israel created Hamas only in the sense that Hamas sprung up as a resistance force against Israel just like Hizbollah.
What children? 1 toddler caught in the cross fire killed by the terrorist IDF more than likely. Your Zionist Nazi BullShit is showing! No excuse for GENOCIDE!
absolute garbage analogy. The stabbed person was entirely and deliberately involved, most Israelis aren't and no Palestinian children are (and Hamas strategists have explicitly discussed sacrificing their innocents, in case there was any doubt).
ALL Israeli ARE involved - all of them. For 80 years they have supported the apartheid state and benefitted from the stolen Palestinian land. They are all complicit in 80 years of war crimes. Do you hold citizens of Nazi Germany who lived off the avails, land and possessions of Jews guilty? "Likened to serial killers?.".. why not? There is a society/group mentality that makes the Zionist crimes normal and accepted. the crimes of THAT society are clear and evident. The Israeli population accepts it and supports it as we speak! What is the difference between 15 people killed by a serial killer and a large group of people who support and pay for a genocide? Just numbers, and please don't compare adults to children.
Nope a lot of them have consistently opposed the ongoing theft, you just find it convenient to ignore that in order to justify collective violence against them. This is exactly what Israelis do. And please don't imply that adults are necessarily less innocent than children. Children are guaranteed to be innocent, but adults may be also.
A lot of them have opposed the ongoing theft?! Where do you get your stats?? Those that oppose the theft are a tiny minority.. the overwhelming majority of Israelis are and have been absolutely fine with killing off the Palestinians and stealing their land.
Diana is correct.
The majority support what has happened over the years.
Now if you want a distinction, foreign residing Jewish people (but not the 23,000 US citizens who are in Israel fighting with the IDF) are not as supportive of these criminal acts by Israel. as are the residents of Israel.
Plenty of evidence for that. A small example,,,,,,
"The Jewish Council of Australia renews our calls for the Albanese Government to use all possible diplomatic pressure to stop Israel committing the crime of genocide."
Albanese government? Sadly, little chance of that happening.
Of course, with the Jewish shekels flying thick and fast into the pockets of 86% of all US politicians (including the disgraceful candidate for President, Nikki Haley (as she signs the US donated stockpile of bombs in Israel with a "finish them" comment), seen as a very worthy candidate ( based on current US values ), one is unlikely to see any change in support for humanity in Rafah from that direction. But it does show that many Jewish people who have been brought up in a different environment from Kibbutz-trained Israelis ( therefore not as brainwashed ), are more realistic and less likely to follow the leaders who receive all their electoral funding from the Jewish lobby in most of the electorates in the USA.
But the same level of parasitic infiltration occurs in most of the white / anglo countries as well, all believing that "Israel has the right to defend itself", a phrase that is becoming as well used as ' Holocaust' and 'anti-Semitism' but somewhat sickening to those who place value on the truth.
I think this has to be said on this comment stream because I'm sure I am not the only person here who was raised by a Jewish parent (my mother was Catholic).
I take great OFFENSE with the mention of Jewish versus Zionist. The criminals creating this entire disgusting genocide are Zionists, and in particular from an EXTREME RIGHT WING ZIONIST party which is just like this analogy---> Zionism is to Judaism as the KKK is to Christianity. OR as an 'update' WHITE SUPREMACIST to Christianity.
THIS colonialism, land grabbing, apartheid, starving, slaughtering, exterminating, ethnic cleansing... bombing hospitals & schools, targeting pregnant women, mostly women & children and burying people alive, operating withOUT anesthesia...
There is a HUGE difference between people who practice the religion of Judaism and these monsters, real Jews use the Holocaust as a cautionary tale, Zionists use it as their play book.
What makes Israel have any rights above laws, International world laws that also the corrupt USA dares to threaten the ICC with sanctions and you, any of you believe this is for world peace or is anywhere near normal? It is just as evil as the Nazis and any Mafia. It is about world dominance, and the fall of the US empire is nearing... it is about those billions of dollars of gas and oil off the coast of Gaza. It is about the typical... money and power. Israel is not for long and what makes them any different than Germany for thinking for one minute that it is acceptable for a whole state to be one religion?! Who the hell do they think they are?!
One clarification please. It isn't Jewish Shekels flying thick and fast. It's billions of US taxpayer dollars being funnelled back. That's the brilliant part of it. This hasn't cost the Zionists a penny! Billions in US funding with a kickback scheme to keep it flowing. Typical third world politics. This is what the American taxpayer needs to understand, even if they side with Israel.
If you voluntarily settle in Israel, then you support genocide and ethnic cleansing of Palestinians. Majority of second passport Israelis that have settled in Israel are die hard Zionazis.
This just isn't true and it illustrates one of the big risks of viewing countries as monolithic. The mainstream Israeli press and much of the rest of Israeli cultural apparatus has for decades excoriated the settler movement, they just gradually lost the fight to a growing and politically motivated minority.
Pete, I see your point about current residents benefitting from prior land grabs. But do you acknowledge that there should be a statute of limitations on those disputes? If not, what do you want for Israel? Two-state? One-state? I don’t see where your point leads.
The statute of limitations has not started running. The land grabs have been disputed, without break, since they occurred.
The only solution is the dismantling of Israel. All logic, humanity, and international law leads to that conclusion. Why, in this day and age are we supporting a state built completely upon stolen land and the ethnic cleansing of that land for the stated benefit of one "race" who have again, stated that they are a superior race. You say "PRIOR land grabs". The land grab continues daily in the settlements and now with the stated end goal of turning the Gazan beach into condos. Did you hear about the "Israel Real Estate events" that have been popping up across the US since Oct. 7th? Additionally, the Zionist goal and expansionist agenda is not just for Palestine. It includes Jordan, Syria, Lebanon and norther Egypt. That is my point. This won't end until Israel is dismantled and a REAL secular state is established with the right of return for Palestinians to their land, as stated under International Law. Yes, it seems like a pipe dream, but it is possible. Until then, everything Israel does is just recruitment incentive for resistance fighters, and rightfully so.
I disagree with your position, but I see that it's built on principles. You say, "a state built completely upon stolen land..." but there was the UN 181 that partitioned the area. Do you regard that as a theft? Why not go back to those borders--both sides take half a loaf?
Again, someone else "partitioned the area" without consultation or the consent of the Palestinians, to create a racist state. There is nothing good about the creation and continuation of "Israel". These "partitions" gave all of the best land to Israel, there is no dispute in that. How do you expect the Palestinians to agree to any of that? Capitulation has been expected of them for 80 years, and it is wrong. They have been bullied, corrupted, deceived and lied to continuously. For one minute, put yourself in their position. Do I consider UN 181 as theft? Well tell me how that worked out for the Palestinians? The Zionists have never had any intention for a 2 state solution. This is fact, despite the obfuscation, excuses, lies and propaganda that the world has been fed. The west cries about justice when it suits them. Where has the justice been for the Palestinians? It has been the opposite. The west has funded and supported this farce long enough and it's time to do the right thing. I submit again, that the only truly lasting, and just answer is the dismantling of the illegal, rogue "state" of Israel.
I totally agree Elyse. Imagine what the reaction would have been if someone in the 1940s had publicly remarked that the US/UK carpet bombing of Germany and its destruction of all of itsI major cities was not justified by the Germans small scale attempt to bomb England at the start of the war. In my opinion they would have been justified in their remarks. But it would have got the same reaction as pointing out that the Hamas attempt to attack the occupying power Israel was sad and wrong but small and almost inconsequential compared to what has happened as a response . And to add to that independent people who viewed the scene hold that many of the victims were killed by the Israeli response in tanks and ariel bombing . But the loudest and most powerful voices are the ones we listen to and respect.
PERFECTLY well stated! I was going to write a comment but I don't need to because you have expressed my thoughts so very well!
I agree. I won't condemn Hamas because I don't know what I, or anyone else, would do if forced to live in an open-air prison for decades, whilst having witnessed my family, friends and neighbours be routinely slaughtered by genocidal racist fanatics.
I like to think I would have the integrity and courage to resist, violently if necessary, and yes, it is necessary.
Accepting killing a single child because of the contemptuous actions of adults is simply wrong. period.
We don't know if the Gaza resistance killed any child. They may have been killed by the indiscriminate tank and Apache helicopter fire from the Zionist military.
In this case that blood is on the Wests hands for tolerating and supporting a cruel racist colonialist state for 75+ years.
I agree. You make an excellent comparison! But I have a further reason as to why I support what Hamas' military wing did on October 7 2023 ... the Palestinians were exercising their right to resist under international law! The military breakout and assault on southern Israel was legitimate.
Palestinians have a recognized right under Protocol I of the Geneva Conventions to resist Israeli occupation and that is what they were doing on October 7.
I've seen some video that definitely appeared to show Hamas massacre's of unarmed civilians, in one case, shot from behind trying to flee. I cannot claim to have 100% verified it but it could easily be genuine. I'm wary about supporting a terrorist act against a civilian like that but I am also well aware that very, very few Israeli's living that close to Gaza are fans of Palestinians & there's an extremely good chance this guy was running to get his weapon, rather than away. Almost all settlers that close to Palestinian territories are highly trained & well armed. So although we have an apparent case of an unarmed civilians being murdered by a terrorist, we can actually have little true idea of the context of the incident. For all we know, this guy has already shot at Hamas & then dropped his gun to run away, & then been shot running.
We also must understand that Israel has taught apartheid in their school system from its inception. It’s not at all surprising that most Israelis treat Palestinians as they do.
What is your source for that, john?
Read the work of Nurit Peled-Elhanan. She’s authored a book on it titled, Creating Palestine in Israeli School Books: Ideology and Propaganda in Education. Watch her videos. Hope this is useful unless yours was a rhetorical question..
We really need a full unbiased investigation to get to the bottom of what all happened that day. It seems it was not just Hamas but also other groups and possibly individuals who left the gates of Gaza. Is it clear who’s in the videos? Are their identities known or is there an assumption that they’re Hamas? I’ve heard NO in-depth analysis of what happened from the perspective of Hamas leadership, but have heard a great deal from Israeli sources. Not a recipe for getting at truth
It's crucial to point out the often overlooked rights of Palestinians.
That’s ridiculous. It was an act of terrorism against innocent civilians.
If you are going to argue that Hamas can and did act in accordance with the Geneva Conventions, then should they not act and follow al the convention's avoids accords?
"resist" yes, killing children --- no.
How many Israeli children were killed? How many Palestinian children have been killed or imprisoned over the past 80 years? Which "side" is fighting for land stolen from them and the freedom to live on it, with no army, no Billion dollar US tax payer funding, no western media propaganda and lies support? Tell me!
This is pure "whataboutism," like watching Fox News. No amount of Israeli crimes excuses Hamas's violence against Israeli children and against their own fellow Palestinian citizens.
So many of you don't seem to get that both actors over the last nine months can be wrong. It doesn't have to be one evil versus a bunch of saints. But you called Hamas "heroes"! WTF?! They are medieval zealots who use innocent blood to hold on to power. They oppress their own people. They should not be in control of Gaza, and you shouldn't be equating them with their Palestinian victims.
Medieval zealots? This is an ignorant Islamophobic trope. Israelis who think they deserve the land and are entitled to ethnically cleanse all non-Jews from the territories are the real zealots, and that very thinking is the foundation of the Jewish state.
You don't see zealots on both sides? I am against both colonialist zealots who maintain apartheid states AND religious zealots who oppress their women with archaic laws and force the public to support their violent acts.
As I said, these are the typical anti-Muslim tropes used to smear a people who have been under a brutal military siege for 18 years and repeatedly bombed, and these have nothing to do with the matter at hand, nor are they based on real tangible concerns. In Gaza I see a large number of highly educated and professional women. They are doctors, engineers, dentists, professors, journalists, etc. - those who haven’t been slaughtered by Israel. Who are YOU to tell the people of Palestine who their leaders should be? Stop skirting the real issue: an ethnonationalist state forcibly expelling and killing people in order to usurp the land exclusively for their own ‘superior’ kind. This has been going on for nearly 80 years.
Men-with-guns are the problem. They are always the problem. Men-with-guns always want to speak too soon and too often, they unironically misappropriate the miseries of others to justify their actions, and they think the only answer to other men-with-guns, is More-Men-With-More-Guns.
Yes, both sides can be co-opted by bad-faith zealots.
This does not mean resistance to occupation is not justified, nor does it mean men-with-guns are never justified.
Like abortion, both should be vanishingly rare. In the case of the former, that’s where men have the solution right in their, um, hands:
Don’t Shoot!
(EJACULATE RESPONSIBLY).
For those needing further clarification there’s a book:
Ejaculate Responsibly: A Whole New Way to Think About Abortion https://a.co/d/aw55qmD
Same reason I don't condemn Nat Turner, Cochise, the ANC, Sitting Bull, or, for that matter the participants in The Warsaw Ghetto Uprising.
Right on Feral.
Let’s not forget John Brown.
Excellent example.
John Brown wasn’t the oppressed. He was a crazy christian white guy who killed people in the name of someone else’s oppression. He set back the struggle for black liberation by decades. Hamas are the oppressed. And the Palestinians are martyrs for freedom everywhere.
Odd take. John Borwn's insurrection took place in 1859. He was a pretty marginal figure at the time of his execution. Fringe.
A few years after that, the Emancipation Proclamation was declared. For that matter, if you had asked people in 1859 whether in the next ten years, slavery would be ended as a matter of constitutional law, blacks would have the right to vote and there would be black senators, governors and representatives, they would have declared you a dangerous nut.
But all those things happened. and Union troops sang marching songs in praise of John Brown.
As far as John Brown not being oppressed, he did give his life for others who were oppressed. He didn't have to do that. I get that you don't like the man for whatever reason, but come on.
Feral, you are rarely wrong but on this, a big F. John Brown was a religious zealot and repeat failure by his own actions—that’s not oppression. Everything he touched to make money went tits up, even tho he kept popping out kids until he had about 20 of them. Yes, he joined the abolitionists and tried to wage war on those who disagreed with him when he found he could make money in a normal way, but that’s no different than today's Trumpians—can’t succeed so shoot somebody. His elevation to Abolitionist hero was all propaganda—white people who had done little to help the Blacks in the movement glommed onto him so they wouldn’t look so feckless. Try to remember that “his-story” is mostly bullshit and John Brown’s is war propaganda, one of the most opaque of all.
TL;DR you don't like the man. Nothing you wrote contradicts my point.
you're half right here (about John Brown) but full truth is Hamas leadership is hideously evil they have explicit strategy of sacrificing their own innocents and murdering civs, and for mostly obvious reasons Israel fucking loves it. Supporting or excusing Hamas is a huge mistake
You got the wrong end of the stick.. Hamas are not evil because msm says so.. the human shields schtick is up and you know it.. no one believes it anymore.. also, which civilians did Hamas murder? If they’re hideously evil as you say then Israel must be Satan himself.. just compare the number of civilians Israel kills compared to Hamas and you have your answer
This has nothing to do with the human shields argument.
If your leaders deliberately instigated a violent conflict with a much stronger neighbor who ended up killing your kids I doubt very much that you'd have any trouble figuring out that your leaders betrayed you. I guess opinions about exactly how bad this kind of betrayal is may vary, but for me it's about as bad as it gets. Does it seem only slightly bad to you? If so why?
If Hamas really was as hideously evil as you claim, you'd think there would be a surfeit of genuine evidence and Zionists and neocons wouldn't have to resort to so many crude fakes.
Reply to Britton—Says you.
I don't condemn a kid who punches his bully after being serially mistreated, but I do condemn Dylan Klebold. I would also condemn a police response that kills all of the people in Klebold's neighborhood. That still wouldn't make his actions right. How hard is that to understand?
Lousy analogy. Did the folks at Columbine High evict the Klebolds from their home at gunpoint? Did Klebold attack Columbine in order to recover what was rightfully his?
Excellent analogy….shocking how we never hear or read about why Oct 7 even happened!
It’s the perfect comparative analogy. Palestinians for decades have been the State equivalent of Cindy.
In principle I cannot agree with the taking of civilian hostages. But I *can* understand the impetus. And there’s a big difference.
On the other hand, those who choose to live on others’ stolen land and subject them to horrendous sub-human treatment should be required to accept the risks that come with their actions. It’s illogical to accept their special pleadings, obfuscations and lies.
The settler mind sees itself as victim while victimizing, as victimizing because the victims require it, as necessary and therefore not evil.
It’s a pathology.
Then you must strongly take issue with Israel’s Palestinian hostages that have been wasting away in Israeli prisons with no rights whatsoever and no due process..that’s the only thing you need to understand..
Well said. How come people always talk about 125 Israeli hostages, but no one seems to want to talk about the 10,000+ Palestinian hostages?
What gives? Is 125 > 10,000 ? Are people struggling with basic Math?
You forgot scaling factors for "chosenness" as well as "subhumanness".
Again, racism. White settlers tried the same trope of manifest destiny when they colonized the new world and otherised and dehumanized the indigenous population.. It’s like fashion, you end up recycling old designs and pretending it’s new..
The reason is your garden variety racism, pure and simple.
Agree, but let's not lose sight of the fact that in the colonial era, it was largely accepted that Europe should get rid of its Jewish minority by shipping them off to a Third World area.
It was largely accepted in Europe, but summarily rejected in the “Third world”.
Powerful analogy which we can arguably extend as follows: The Criminals cleverly allowed the victim’s “attack” and escape knowing the ostensibly trustworthy authorities, police & press, wouldn’t believe her story, instead repeating the perps’ dominant narrative that theirs’ was a God given right to rid the town of undesirables.
I agree, Hamas is a resistance movement against an oppressor, Israel…and I don’t believe a word coming from the Israeli government
The point the analogy is making is that the violent, ice pick response was appropriate given the context. The ice pick murder happened at the individual level, the Palestine genocide is happening at the nation/people level. Israel is a country whose overwhelming majority is supportive of a regime which was built on the violent displacement of the prior inhabitants, and which continues to support a policy of containment and extinction of those remaining. The notion of innocent Israeli individuals is a red herring. Caitlin has previously characterized the HAMAS attack as a prison revolt, another illuminating parallel. You imprison a people, what you get is on you.
Did anyone ever ask , 'Do you condemn the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising?'
What of the French Resistance against the Occupying German forces , where the French condemned?
October 7 was an inside job. This is OBVIOUS for anyone caring to see with their own eyes: Israel had the most secure border on Earth. IDF STOOD DOWN for 6 hours, came in with heavy artillery, blasted everything, and blamed "Hamas": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMXllVmTuKQ&t=18s
"October 7 was an inside job"
... of the "let it happen" kind, where plenty of "damning" evidence is produced by the "unprovoked" patsy perps for the narrative-builders. Of note, just like 9/11.
I agree. I’ve seen an excellent analysis on Al Jazeera. There are actually 3 fences. The third is a concrete wall with surveillance towers and cameras monitored 24/7. The cameras have a range of 6 miles I believe. The towers also have remote controlled machine guns. Between the high tech second fence and the concrete wall is a swath of land normally patrolled at all times. There’s no way that anyone could even approach the first fence without Israel knowing. And how did they get pickup trucks through the concrete wall without Israeli assistance? Netanyahu was more than willing to sacrifice a bunch of kibbutzim peaceniks (that he supposedly despised) for the opportunity to destroy Gaza and commit a genocide.
Agree. I have thought this for a long time. This never gets examined in MSM .
And what was in it for Hamas? Are they die hard Zionists now? Is Hizbollah also colluding with the Zionists? Am I missing something here??
Hamas wanted to engage with the military. Some reports said many expected to die. The ones who would survive wanted to take military hostages to Gaza to exchange for the hundreds of Palestinians held in Israeli jails, many with no charges. It’s administrative detention.
It took the Israeli military 6 hours to respond. They had left many of the monitoring positions empty, no one was manning the remotely controlled machine guns on the fence, and they’d moved most of the military that normally guards the fence into the West Bank. An Israeli soldier who had served on the Gaza border said it takes only 6 minutes to get the helicopters in the air. There’s video of Hamas driving around looking for someone to engage with.
Only a few days prior to 10/7 they had moved the music festival closer to the fence. Why would you place unprotected young people next to an open air prison where you’d imposed a blockade for 17 years and through multiple bombing attacks had destroyed much of the infrastructure over the last 12+ years? It’s pretty unrealistic to think that you can cage 2.3 million people, exercising total control over who and what can enter or leave, while denying them the basic necessities of life, and believe yourself to be completely safe.
I don’t like to see anyone harmed in any way. I’m not saying that I agree with everything that happened on 10/7 but I’m also not surprised. The Palestinians have the right to resist, with force, the occupier, Israel. That doesn’t mean that they aren’t held to the recognized rules of engagement. Israel’s brutal oppression of the people of Gaza is what caused the attack by Hamas. If Palestinians had not been driven from their homes, 80% of the Gaza population are refugees or descendants of refugees, if the Zionists had been willing to live peacefully with the Christian and Muslim population, there would have been peace and security for all. The Zionists wanted all of the land and none of the people that were living there.
Agreed, I've seen the evidence
Or Israel is just not as invincible as they would have you think.. just ask Hizbollah..
What an amazing comparison, it is spot on !
once again, Caitlin brings sanity to an insane position that western media has inculcated the masses with. The world should be reading Caitlin Johnson every day as inoculation against the pernicious disease of western journalism.
Let’s take this one step further.
Imagine David Parker Ray and Cindy Hendy had been paid police informants because they were connected to other local criminals. The police knew David Parker Ray and Cindy Hendy were criminals, but because Ray and Hendy were a good and/or maybe the only source the police had for information about the other criminals, the police and Ray/Hendy were “joined at the hip.” The police go after Cynthia Vigil with the ice pick charge to protect their Ray/Hendy informants.
This kind of thing happens every day.
Alayna
Your scenario above assumes that the police are the "good guys" working with criminals (David Parker Ray and Cindy Hendy) to catch more "bad guys".
The Israel scenario is different. Israel are the "bad guys" (there is ample evidence from history to prove that) that are working with other "bad guys" to catch and kill the "good guys" (Palestinians).
Excellent, this analogy. Hamas did not expect to have no resistance at all, they expected mostly to die fighting within a few short hours and pick up some hostages to swap with Palestinians that are also robbed of freedom without process. Masha Gessen is a great resource, Masha called is the razing of the ghetto.
Maybe I missed something, but why aren’t we asking why we are asked to condemn Hamas? Why is that THE question?
“Condemn” is newspeak for symbolizing your dedication and loyalty to the transnational white colonial enterprise. It’s basic the “heil h£&&&r” of our time.
Yes if we don't say the right words; we condemn Hamas, full-scale, unprovoked, illegal invasion when referring to the Russian SMO or if we questioned any covid measure it means that we are morally bad, Putin sympathisers and we don't care about old people. We are unpatriotic and disloyal and therefore have no right to take part in any political nor scientific debate.
This is how they frame our need to know who's good and who's bad to their advantage. If we don't agree with the framing we are bad people and not allowed a voice.
We must “condemn” every for the crime of being targeted by the colonial overlords. The Yemeni’s, the Libyans, the Afghans. the Iraqis. The Malians. The Palestinians.
Even the Chinese and the Russians must be condemned for being encircled too.
At some point the sheep need to stop condemning and start asking questions.
We are definitely living in a dystopian, Orwellian society at this time and it’s driving me insane. Wrong is right and right is wrong. To quote Bob Dylan’s song, “Along the Watch Tower”: There must be some way out of here, I can’t get no relief.🥲☮️🇵🇸
Yes 'condemn' has become the media word. We are not asked; do we agree that Hamas did acts of terrorism such as the killing of 'civilians'; just like enslaved people revolting and killing their white 'owners' did (though this is now remembered as heroism)?
It's do we condemn them for it?
It's such a weird framing of the issue. Do we personally judge them and find them wanting? What has what we think got to do with anything?
It's just to repeat (like Piers Moron did) the words 'condemn' and 'Hamas' next to each other in the same sentence over and over and over again.
Cause Piers Morgan sez so! 😂