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Vin LoPresti's avatar

I don't know about any of THEM. I can only assure everyone that I hate MY current government, and haven't really liked one until back before I was 16 and they assassinated JFK.

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Brittle Consent's avatar

A lot more Americans hate their own government, than Iranians who hate theirs. We have no business changing the regime in Iran or anywhere else.

Unlike in Iran, where dramatic changes are possible from one election to another, the US is stuck in a dead end with no way out. We only have the procedure of a democracy, but there are no real choices. A true democracy must allow the people of a country to have a say in how the country is run. Americans are never offered more than propaganda. The US is one of the least democratic so-called democracies in the world, populated by irredeemably delusional people, convinced they are free, exceptional, and chosen by some imperial god for a manifest destiny, unable to look at themselves in the mirror, and much less to look around them at the death and destruction they have done.

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Vin LoPresti's avatar

"The US is one of the least democratic so-called democracies in the world, populated by irredeemably delusional people, convinced they are free, exceptional, and chosen by some imperial god for a manifest destiny, unable to look at themselves in the mirror, and much less to look around them at the death and destruction they have done"

Put that statement on a poster. A great summary. Bravo!

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X K's avatar
11hEdited

I was 11. Lately through Jeffrey Sachs I've come to see more of what JFK represented, for the good. Also lately I've come to see why "they," including Israel, wanted to knock him off. I'll be criticized for this, but I also see LBJ as being one of the greatest of presidents for his Civil Rights, Voting Rights, Medicare/Medicaid, education, and more such legislation, and for the Great Society, the last great aspiration of this country, but the same forces that knocked off JFK kept LBJ in Viet Nam, which destroyed his legacy. And of course the same vicious Right wing ideology has joyously seen the rollbacks in much of what LBJ brought to the nation, voting and civil rights peeled back, millions thrown off Medicaid, persistent attempts at privatizing Medicare and Social Security. Head Start, PBS, CPB? Adios. God may have blessed America at one time, but that's been squandered since.

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gypsy33's avatar

LBJ was ONE of the forces that knocked off JFK, along with Mossad and the CIA.

They detested one another. An hour before Kennedy’s assassination, Johnson purportedly told his mistress, That sonofabitch has humiliated me for the last time!

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Kathleen McCroskey's avatar

And he was right there in the hospital in Dallas, ordering ppl around like he was sworn in already.

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X K's avatar

Yes, a proud man, with considerable political skill, unappreciated and humiliated by the Kennedys. I won't go so far as to say he was involved in Nov. 22nd, but maybe he was quick to realize he had come to the office he coveted. He worked very hard to make the '64 elections a mandate, that he wasn't just an accidental president. He succeeded in doing that, but only a year later Viet Nam was beginning to take its toll.

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Chuck Nasmith's avatar

LBJ was an OIl man.

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M F's avatar

Not to criticize, but LBJ himself chose to double down on that "pissant country," courted and then wedded a huge disaster. And Kennedy started that intervention, although maybe he would have backed off as from Cuba after failure at Bay of Pigs. Perhaps each was compromised by "the deep state" ha but they were not lacking in agency. Same with Obama re drones and America's Middle Eastern misadventures. Just sayin'.

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X K's avatar

Yes, of course, all that "missile gap" baloney, poisoned cigars, upping the intervention in Viet Nam (both JFK and LBJ), all of what you say and then some. Hard, impossible for them not to have done so. Still, I think JFK was much chastened by the near apocalypse of the Cuban Missile Crisis, and LBJ was strong on domestic policy, weak on foreign, relied on "The Wise Men" of the WWII and post-war era, whom LBJ appealed to for advice and guidance, and got the Wall St. lawyer Cold War stance, with one or two exceptions, until ultimately, too late, they saw Viet Nam for what it was, a sinkhole, a mess.

Of course, we sure learned our lesson from back then, didn't we?

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M F's avatar

Agree completely. But I still can't excuse the arrogant ignorance of those Chief Executives, constrained or manipulated as they surely were.

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X K's avatar

Yeah, you're right on that score. The "king" - president - makers won't permit it, a vetting which begins at least during primary season. George McGovern was perhaps the last more-decent-than-not-candidate who got as far as he did; more recently the Dems saw to it that Hillary got the nod rather than Bernie. Up for torching Mme. Tussaud's Wax Museum?

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M F's avatar

All the wax figures will sooner or later self-immolate.

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Benjamin's avatar

I recommend reading "The Kennedy Imprisonment" by Garry Wills if you want an idea of what that family was really about, tragic flaws and missed opportunities. I totally agree with you on LBJ, one of the greatest, just dragged down by Vietnam. People might shit on me for this, but Nixon was probably the best president of my lifetime (also the first) and was probably the last of the New Deal presidents. Started the EPA, which I doubt any president of the 21st century could or would do, bought and sold by corporate greed as they are. Watergate seems quaint by today's standards of ubiquitous corruption, and he did tone down the Cold War until Carter and Reagan heated it right back up again. Of course, if I re-read some Hunter S Thompson I'll probably go right back to hating Nixon. Truth is, they're all pretty terrible.

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X K's avatar

Thanks for the Wills reference, will check out at the library. PBS did a two-part series on the Kennedys how long ago now? and it removed some of the gloss. I agree with you about Nixon, journalist Robert Scheer interviewed many presidents, can't recall the title his book which was a compendium, he found Nixon to be the most intelligent, most capable, but undone by his demons.

Watergate quaint? Again I think you're right, but it may have set the tone for all the subsequent thievery. I think Chomsky quoted a RAND study demonstrating that the "transfer" (aka theft) of wealth from the lower and middle classes to the 1% amounted to $50 trillion between 1975 and 2015 or something like that. Throw in the ravaging of private equity, the underinvestment in public services, the military-industrial-congressional complex, the incomprehensible public debt, and the mind boggles.

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Mitch Ritter's avatar

My mind certainly boggles whenever I get down in the weeds of his\her-story!

I've come around to puzzling over the internal contradictions and weird twists of her\his-story as circumstance seems to choreograph and that plays out on this strange and elaborate Human Stage Life of Free Choice in Vise Grips Rarely Seen Nor Measured, Often Not Even Named...

XK, without absolving LBJ and Nixon of their own agency as Commanders In Chief, and I certainly do not place both of those cats in the same moral 'sphere or atmosphere. Reading the curiously lower class conscious Nixon's upbringing and (personal) development in his Whittier youth:

https://www.nixonfoundation.org/nixon-the-man/

"1922

The Nixon family

moves to Whittier

Seeking better opportunities, the Nixons relocate to Whittier, California, and open a grocery store and gas station. Richard helps run the family business after school."

The same adult California lower-class Republican Conservative and Anti-Communist adept character and political assassin of all his political rivals in his clawing his Cold War way to the State House, US Senate and a heartbeat away from Commander In Chief was actually an idealistic champion of the Working Class\Lower Class non-Liberal nor Upper Class Conservative Political Machiavellian.

Rather, an organization he joined before he got political was the New Deal idealistic and Salt of the Earth bureau of US Great Depression and Tornado ravaged wary of Wall Street speculation and in a few years exactly the sort of government organization Nixon would mercilessly carpet bomb with his Communist\Socialist demonic tarring of his political rivals:

Ever hear or learn about in school (even at college level in the Great Depression cultural and historical courses I took as an undergraduate with exactly the kind of Liberal Professors Nixon would chew up for lunch in his political rise to Conservative Czar of Anti-Commie California, this bureaucratic named Public Service Agency I stumbled upon in my own haphazard research of the midwestern experience of the Great Depression and Climate Change as tornado ravaged and biblically plagued 'white' church folk being took for their hooz-is by the tiny clique of Wall Street bankers who hid in Big Government's protective bail-out pockets:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_of_Price_Administration

Learning about what this OFFICE OF PRICE ADMINISTRATION was set up to do boggled my mind further when in researching Nixon I learned that young chip-on-his-lower class white trash Nixon's shoulder was membership in this most idealistic of US bureaucratic Big Government so-called CryBaby creations that PROTECTED & SAVED climate & E-CON-o-mic Speculated working class life, destroyed urban factory & rural agrarian life overrun and stranded by the Scavengers of Great Depression Non-Regulated Big Finance Banks:

Wiki Read what the Office of Price Administration did and was until it was shut down during the Cold War for using small "n" nationalism and blue collar democratic socialism (of sharing) to save a suffering man-made and heaven-plagued still New Nation that Richard Nixon noted only in whispers he made sure never to secretly or otherwise record:

Share this because our corporate-captured Public Broadcasting Corporation has never been interested in reporting on this vast life-saving and farm-saving democratic socialist government agency.

"The Office of Price Administration (OPA) was established within the Office for Emergency Management of the United States government by Executive Order 8875 on August 28, 1941. The functions of the OPA were originally to control money (price controls) and rents after the outbreak of World War II.[3]"

History

"President Franklin D. Roosevelt inaugurated the Council of National Defense Advisory Commission on May 29, 1940,[4] to include Price Stabilization and Consumer Protection Divisions. Both divisions merged to become the Office of Price Administration and Civilian Supply (OPACS) within the Office for Emergency Management by Executive Order 8734, on April 11, 1941. Civil supply functions were transferred to the Office of Production Management.[1]"

"It became an independent agency under the Emergency Price Control Act, January 30, 1942. The OPA had the power to place ceilings on all prices except agricultural commodities, and to ration scarce supplies of other items, including tires, automobiles, shoes, nylon, sugar, gasoline, fuel oil, coffee, meats and processed foods. At the peak, almost 90% of retail food prices were frozen. It could also authorize subsidies for production of some of those commodities.[5]"

Dissolution

"Groups such as the National Association of Manufacturers and the National Retail Dry Good Association sought to guarantee companies a minimum amount of profits, thereby effectively limiting the price control measures.[7] However, the OPA still enjoyed widespread popular support and the agency was renewed in 1944 and again in 1945.[7][8] While these renewals were considerable successes for many consumer advocacy groups, they also marked the height of the OPA, from which the agency's power and popularity would decline in the next two years.[7]"

"By the end of July, Congress had reversed course and passed legislation reinstating the OPA and price controls, though this bill was no stronger than what President Truman had vetoed earlier.[7][8] This much-weakened version of the OPA did not last long, as meat packers launched their own form of protest against the agency, slowing slaughtering rates and withholding meat from market.[7][8]"

"The OPA was abolished effective May 29, 1947 by the General Liquidation Order, issued March 14, 1947, by the OPA Administrator.[9] Some of its functions were taken up by successor agencies"

"Famous employees include economist John Kenneth Galbraith, legal scholar William Prosser, President Richard Nixon, and law professor John Honnold.[7]"

"The OPA is featured, in fictionalized form as the Bureau of Price Regulation, in Rex Stout's Nero Wolfe mystery novel The Silent Speaker."

"The OPA unsuccessfully tried to revoke the car dealer license of unorthodox businessman Madman Muntz for violating used car regulations, subject to price control. Muntz was acquitted in Los Angeles Superior Court on 1 August 1945.[10]"

"During the Korean War, similar functions were performed by the Office of Price Stabilization (OPS)."

"Women and the OPA"

"The success of the OPA’s price controls and rationing policies depended on the support of women who acted as the main shoppers of their households, especially during wartime. Local community organizations, governments, and OPA boards held educational seminars aimed at women, targeted women to join local price and rationing boards, and recruited women for volunteer programs.[7]"

"The OPA’s enlistment of women to ensure that local businesses were complying with federal policies extended the public sphere into the private sphere and the effective growth of “state supervision.”[7]" "This resulted in a pseudo-militant attitude toward regulation and made it more difficult for politicians to curb the power of the OPA."

"The OPA worked with consumer activists in a “mutually empowering” and mutually reliant fashion to ensure the effectiveness of its policies and activists’ interests.[7] Thus, a large swathe of consumer activists helped to ensure that businesses were compliant with its policies. Widespread support of the OPA came from the belief that the agency could help establish postwar prosperity."

"African Americans and the OPA"

https://diff.wikimedia.org/2016/11/08/richard-nixon-campaigns/

"Instead, the campaign became a prime example of red-baiting, the political strategy of linking an opponent with Communism. In the campaign’s first debate, Nixon was able to tar Voorhis by associating him with an endorsement from a group Voorhis was not aware of, and whom Nixon charged had the same board of directors as a group widely seen as being a Communist front. The pall of this confrontation hung over the rest of the election, with Nixon using it in subsequent debates, campaign literature, and ads."

"After Nixon resigned, Voorhis quipped, “Here is the philosophy of doing-anything-to-win receiving its just and proper reward.”

"In 1950, Nixon ran for one of California’s two Senate seats against fellow Representative Helen Gahagan Douglas, the third woman ever elected to the US Congress. Nixon’s campaign was once again characterized by red baiting, though this was not unusual in an era characterized by the “Red Scare.” They distributed a “Pink Sheet” that accused Douglas of voting in league with Vito Marcantonio, a democratic socialist politician who had been embraced by Communist groups in the United States."

"Douglas struck back by comparing Nixon to Nazism, calling him “a young man with a dark shirt” and running advertisements stating that “HITLER invented it/STALIN perfected it/NIXON uses it.” Nixon responded by continuing to conflate Douglas with being soft on Communism.

Nixon won the election with a nearly 60-40 split in the electorate. An early Nixon biographer characterized the race by writing, “Nothing in the litany of reprehensible conduct charged against Nixon, the campaigner, has been cited more often than the tactics by which he defeated Congresswoman Helen Gahagan Douglas for senator.”

"You can read more in Wikipedia’s featured articles on the United States Senate election in California, 1950 and Richard Nixon.

Ed Erhart, Editorial Associate

Wikimedia Foundation"

Via

Tio Mitchito

Mitch Ritter\Paradigm Sifters, Code Shifters, PsalmSong Chasers

Lay-Low Studios, Ore-Wa (Refuge of A-Tone-ment Seekers)

Media Discussion List\Looksee

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X K's avatar

A lot of territory covered there, and "the internal contradictions and weird twists of her\his-story" certainly figure in all this.

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Mary Wildfire's avatar

LBJ was in office when the Israelis attempted to sink the USS Liberty because its crewmen had seen Israel's attack on Egypt in '68 if I got that right--and LBJ insisted on that being covered up. Israel attacked a US Navy ship, attempted to sink it, and LBJ insisted on hushing it up because "Israel is an ally."

As for JFK, he allowed the Bay of Pigs operation but said he would not send troops in for support if it didn't succeed. The architects knew it wouldn't succeed but thought JFK would "have to" proceed with a war--he refused, and that's when his life expectancy shrank. He said he was going to "break the CIA into a thousand pieces." I guess he realized that an agency allowed to collect information on everyone everywhere--theoretically not in the US but who's going to stop them?--while keeping their own doings completely secret is a recipe for tyranny. But it was already too late.

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Feral Finster's avatar

1. "That’s what they’re saying when they tell you “Talk to Iranians”, you know. They’re actually telling you to speak to a very specific faction of Iranians, and are generally referring to the English-speaking diaspora whose family left the country for a reason, who stand nothing to lose from American bombs landing on Tehran."

Machiavelli warned us to beware of tales told by exiles.

2. 'CNN’s Van Jones is on Twitter claiming that a “free, democratic Iran” would almost certainly “normalize ties with Israel”. This is the same empire propagandist who recently came under fire for cracking jokes about dead babies in Gaza."

This was one of the justifications used in the runup to the War On Iraq. The neocons got the war they so crave, and once Iraq was a failed state, it didn't matter whether or not they normalized ties with anyone.

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gypsy33's avatar

Feral, kind of like talking to Cuban mafia drug lords in Florida who were forced to flee the revolution 😁

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Diana van Eyk's avatar

Van Jones's stupid statements blow me away.

And I agree completely, Caitlin. The western world has no right to tell other countries who should govern them, or support regime change operations.

Not only is this illegal and immoral, but western support of the genocide in Gaza means our governments have zero moral authority.

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Brian Bixby's avatar

The pro-government demonstrations in Iran today were multiple times larger than any of the protests. The biggest tell that the protests were organized from outside the country is that they immediately dissipated once the government shut down Starlink connections across the country.

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X K's avatar

Brian Bixby, BHS '70?

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Brian Bixby's avatar

Nope, TCHS '79.

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X K's avatar

Well, there's more than one of you running around, though not my classmate here. Thanks for responding.

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gypsy33's avatar
12hEdited

Anyone who believes western government media needs to listen to an actual IRANIAN ASAP: I refer to Professor Marandi, a frequent guest on Danny Haiphong’s show. (If you’re not familiar with Danny, change that. Immediately.) Unlike the shitforbrains in the West, the good Professor is actually in Tehran.

Those “protests” were actually just murderous mayhem involving Mossad, the CIA, and several terrorist groups friendly to the West.

The protests were SHUT DOWN when the government disabled Starlink—-fuck you, Elon Musk!—proving that they were coordinated, not spontaneous.

Marandi is the first to admit that some have issues with the government; however, millions turned out in favor of protecting Iran’s constitution.

Take that shit and eat it, AmeriKKKa!

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DawnieR's avatar

From what I see....it is only (MOST) of the Western countries, that their Citizens HATE their government.

I'm in the USSA......and I LOATH them, beyond words!

The 'government' that has been INSTALLED, for MANY DECADES now, is NOT an AMERICAN government.

These CORRUPT CRIMINALS, in the District of Criminals, are OWNED BY The Globalists/Banksters.....and NOT The American People.

Oh, and THEY HATE US, by the way!!

DEATH TO THE EVIL EMPIRE!

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Nigel Mackay's avatar

The reports of riots in Iran, though I am sure we are not getting the truth about them, make me sick. It’s like another little triumph for the Western Right. I put in a comment that I hate authoritarianism, yet I find myself hoping a theocratic state - which ideologically feels to me like the worst of all possible worlds - will prevail, and that the fucking US and the west will be forced to leave them alone and stop the 46 years of economic warfare they have been waging against them. Warfare that of course caused the economic problems that they now encounter.

I remember fellow students from Iran before the revolution who had run from SAVAK and the truly awful Shit of Iran as he was widely known.

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Indu Abeysekara's avatar

Nigel Mackay, Like you I am sure we aren't getting the truth of what's happening in Iran. Most of the clips we see seem contrived and manufactured and AI generated. We also know better than to trust the media class. Creating necessary illusions and manufacturing consent is what they are there for.

When we look at the convenient timeline - the rampaging US empire and its vassal Israel, fresh from the killing fields of Gaza and of bombing Iran - to believe their lies would be an insult to our intelligence.

In a saner world, they wouldn't have a leg to stand on if their past atrocities are up front. The CIA/MI6 backed coup to oust the democratically elected Mosaddegh, and the foisting of their puppet the Shah. An eight year war against the Islamic revolution by ( at the time) their proxy Iraq. Now Iran is throttled with a silent war of sanctions, embargoes and propaganda.

What choices have they got?

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X K's avatar

"They can’t allow democracy to flourish in the middle east... "

Hell, it stands in the way of their thievery and bigotry in this country, no surprise to see its dismantling proceeding apace, never to return. It's been put on ICE.

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Teresa's avatar
12hEdited

Couldn't agree more. But I believe there is one thing they all pretty much agree on. They adamantly want foreign agitators, agents and any other interference out of their country. If any country, mainly mine, want to truly help the people of Iran, end their sanctions and tariffs. But helping them is not the priority, weakening them with sanctions and tariffs is their goal. Then send in the foreign agitators and protestors when they are economically, emotionally, and physically weak. The US/Israel has been targeting Iran since I was a young girl. What these latest mass demonstrations tell us is that the Iranians want them to get out and stay out. They stand in solidarity with their government. Just look at how amazingly strong, resilient and self-determined they truly are. I stand with the Iranian People.

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7thSignSoul's avatar

israHELL "democracy" ⁉️

In a GENOCIDAL DEATH CAMP, APARTHEID STATE Of RabidlyRacist, CRIMINALLY DEPRAVED, PREDATORY, RAPIST-PEDOPHILE-TERRORIST THIEVES⁉️

How TF can any REASONABLE person assert they're AGAINST GENOCIDE yet

support israHELLz MURDEROUS, INFILTRATION Of Iran ⁉️

I know U.S. & HĀTŌ Nations' Literacy is diving but THIS "pickle" only requires HUMANITY to figure it out.

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robert's avatar

not to contradict or deny the view s of anyone on Iran but a neighbor originally from Iran now resident in the US told me she left because the government was oppressive and so on. I dont doubt her. My view is that America should not go abroad in search of monsters to destroy. We have plenty enough to destroy in the US.

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gypsy33's avatar

I live in AmeriKKKa and would like to leave because the government is oppressive.

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The blue's avatar

Israel is so popular in the Middle East, when Egypt had a free election in 2012, Egyptians elected the Muslim brotherhood.

If democracy is real in the US, at least 60-70% of US representatives and senators would be anti-Israel reflecting the opinion polls among Americans.

Nobody like these racist colonizers and Van Jones is scumbag.

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The Revolution Continues's avatar

"They can’t allow democracy to flourish in the middle east because the genocidal apartheid state of Israel is very unpopular among the people who live there. "

Funny that, isn't it? Watching Israeli military forces commit genocide and Israeli civilians cheer on rapists and support pedophiles does not engender love for them and their sick and twisted society whatsoever. Always see the world through others' eyes and see what they see, not what a lying Western government wants you to see.

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Nancy's avatar

Could it be that the feelings Venezuelans and Iranians have toward their respective governments has something to do with the stringent economic sanctions imposed on the two countries by the U.S. — and the hardships those sanctions inflict on ordinary citizens? Or, the antigovernment propaganda fomented by the CIA both in and outside those countries? This is the standard U.S. playbook. Make conditions so miserable inside the target countries that at least a minority of their populations will turn against their governments. The U.S. did this against Iran’s secular leader, Mosaddegh, in the early fifties. Then, according to the playbook, a puppet regime, like that of the Shah, is installed. Now of course the U.S. is in the process of choosing a “leader” for Venezuela, after having abducted Maduro. Of course the puppet leaders have to prioritize the interests of multinational monopolies — posing as U.S. corporations, although you wouldn’t know it from the taxes they don’t pay — over their own people.

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Joy in HK fiFP's avatar

More important than ever! The work that the Hind Rajab Foundation is doing to track down and bring Israeli criminals to justice is one that is vital in the effort to hold Israel accountable.  Let us hope they will also turn their sights on the criminal leaders of the countries of the west who are co-perpetrators of these crimes.

Find out what they’re doing here:

https://www.hindrajabfoundation.org

The least we can do is donate to help them:

Support the Hind Rajab Foundation

https://donate.stripe.com/cN228hbY5g7jaM84gg

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钟建英's avatar

As I understand it, Iranians had been free to protest, but violent protests are illegal in all countries.

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