There is also no alternate version of the rest of the world that is letting these atrocities happen. Everything we are watching Israel do to Palestine is what can be done to all of us. Other colonizers also thought they should get preferential treatment over the people that were already living there. They also dehumanized the people who were living on the land they wanted. Israel is happening for all of us to see, but it isn't the first time it has happened and if they get away with it, it won't be the last.
They've been going at Russia forever and another attempt has been underway in its acute phase since 2014. Lula of Brazil says Biden told him "Russia should be destroyed" - https://www.rt.com/news/618620-biden-destroy-russia-lula/
The USA and Europe have committed themselves once more and unless some miracle occurs - we're headed towards nuclear disaster.
Caitlin, you wrapped it! I have long maintained that izrael cannot exist any longer. It must go. Whatever way!
Its entire concept was an atrocity from at least 1917 onwards. Cooly decided by the Jewish Colonial Council: Steal the land. Drive out the owners. Period.
Israel is unique in terms of colonisation in that it was founded in genocidal bigotry with a policy of extermination of the native people. No other colonisation was founded with such a policy, regardless of any crimes later committed.
And, there is a big difference between Israel doing what it is doing in the 20th and 21st centuries, as compared to past centuries across thousands of years of humans colonising across the globe.
I am reading "A People's History of the United States, 1492 to present" by Howard Zinn. It is horrible how similar the thinking was when the colonizers came to the Americas. Israel is a clone of the US.
Imagine if Zinn were taught in every US history classroom, rather than the unmitigated crap they feed US high school kids about 'Murica. This country might be 50% less FUBAR.
It should be taught in every classroom everywhere so that people know just how America got to be so "great", but we can't have people knowing the truth about their greedy and murderous ancestors. The people who came to America and did what they did were Europeans before they became Amurrcans.
Same result in all those early colonial empires following Western expansion, mainly from Europe as you said. Some almost still as bad today as then in some aspects, such as respect, equality and justice.
It has been the same in all countries, Susan.
Some worse than others, exampled by South Africa, Australia and the USA, all history books showing the same level of fiction.
Not too much to be proud of in these later days either. Odd how we could have such murderous, greedy, grabby inhumane people governing us at the same time such beautiful art and music was being made. But then, the artists and musicians were not treated very well either. Too often they had to bow down to "power." We still have a lot of beautiful art and music, but too much of that has been co-opted by the quest for dollars.
Vin, ONLY a few maniacs? Not the way I see it. I see it as being perpetrated by a whole hoarde of psychopaths, sociopaths (and all their bootlicking, ingratiating, toadying, grovelling, subservient sycophants). It is unlikely that the 'settler-colonial' project that is Israel could have survived this long without SIGNIFICANT support from so many immoral/amoral/indifferent/etc. humans.
That's WHAT scares me more - that it is us, humans, that are capable of such EVIL. And for what? So that we can live fancy, rich, lives and look down on everyone else? So that we can remain at the top of the 'proverbial food chain' and gloat that we are superior to everyone else we're surrounded by? I think THAT is the biggest ILLUSION that these 'psychopaths and sociopaths' seem to want to indulge in.
Yes, Indu. To add to that, I would surmise that it is also the perceived FEAR of all kinds (held inside the minds of TPTB), insecurities of TPTB (real or imagined) manifested in different ways onto the outside world and OTHERS, and possibility inferiority complexes? (manifested by shows of ego, false bravado/courage, and narcissism, not to mention bullying and strongman strategies).
Are we going to continue to solve obliteration with more obliteration? Can we come up with something that's not barbaric? How about Israeli's move to America? That is plenty of space here. And since the two are bosom buddies, it seems the most obvious thing to do. And the Palestinians can go back to their land in peace.
Sounds like a plan, but you're leaving out a big piece of the puzzle. Israel exists "there" because it has claimed the Holy Land to be its own according to its archaic scriptures. Their mission is have a Greater Israel, which takes up a huge swath of land that includes 5 neighboring countries.
Moving to the US would never do. Not to mention, Zionists don't make good neighbors.
Why should anyone care what Israel wants? They are malignant murderers. The logic of taking land that they claim was once where they lived is bogus. Imagine if that applied to others, to the US for instance or Australia who took the lands of the original peoples. Israel needs to be ostracized like all psychopaths should. Not forever, just till they make amends.
And that's probably a chief reason Israel is as extreme as it is--the people who couldn't stomach what Israel was, who weren't swallowing Jewish supremism, have been leaving for generations--leaving behind the hard-core, the ones with weak moral sense. Because this what Israel has always been. though it has gone into an extreme phase now.
But I've had the same thought as Susan, when I say, "Israel has forfeited its right to exist if it ever had it--what should happen is that all the Jews should have to leave Palestine except those who can live in harmony with their mostly Arab Muslim neighbors--a percentage somewhere in the single digits. There are plenty of countries that would take them, including mine--but I'd hope they wouldn't choose my state, we have enough racists already.
I feel you. But even if it means the Palestinians will be free to live in their homeland without the pestilence? What about an isolated dry place somewhere in New Mexico or Nevada?
Thanks, but no thanks. I live in NM. Put 'em in the old White Sands nuke test site -- in tents -- fine, zip code is 88002; but keep 'em, away from Albuquerque and Santa Fe please; actually they probably already own the latter.
Yes? with americans being as racist as the israelis? Palestinians want their own land. I know and keep in constant touch with many Gazans. What i hear from them is that they want to stay. Pestilence can be treated and the buildings rebuilt. If Palestinians were to be taken to America they would be kept in reservations just like the Native Americans, the real owners of the land .
I'm talking about Israelis coming to America. And the pestilence I was referring to is the Israelis. Yes for sure if Palestinians came to America, unless we changed drastically, they would be kept in reservations. This may be going in another direction, but the idea that anyone owns land is fallacious. We all own all the land and nobody owns all the land. We're really just custodians and we need a new way of allocating land for a person's lifetime. We ought to be talking about how that could be done, without of course, anyone losing anything. We simply go forward in the new way we decide to go.
Would you like the israelis to move to the US? They would create the greater israel straightaway, especially with the vast majority of the politicians being zionists. And no, land is not everyone’s property especially if the invaders oppress the natives.
Oh, hell, no. We have enough insane zionists. Besides, their PLAN is for the Sanhedrin to rule the world from Israel through the establishment of the Noahide Laws. Don't EVER think they will stop at genociding Palestinians. Their PLAN is world domination...and genocide.
Ok well that's just the attitude we need. We can say how awful they are, we keep on funding them through taxes, we cry about Palestinians but you're not prepared to even consider for more than a nanosecond how you can REALLY do something to help. You don't even have a desire to help. This is what I see humans doing every day, several times per day. I don't believe in extra terrestrials but I've got to say it's embarrassing being part of this species.
The alternative would be to talk about it, at least have a conversation. But your first words were "NO". You need to read an article I wrote called "No. Not. Never.". We are living in the negative more than in the positive and we are totally clueless that our words create worlds.
Not no. Hell no. Get the quote right. And some of us have been against giving Israhell ANY money our whole lives. I'm almost 60 years old. I've been protesting against Israhell since I was 10 years old. Left a church over it, left friends over it, won't support it, won't have it. Genocidal maniacs need to be locked up and the key thrown away. Not given free money to create more genocidal maniacs.
How is it barbarism to take away its statehood, remove its seat on the UN, declare its population refugees, put its govt and businesses into receivership and apportion the money, the enormous profits from their surveillance system worldwide sales, back to its 7 million citizens, who are left to fend for their own individual derrieres in locating a new place to live -- no help with group relocation. There are Zionists throughout the world -- let them cleave to the bosoms of their own, but individually. Break up the group dynamic that fosters and perpetuates that societal-level sociopathy.
Sorry, I'm missing a connection, if there is one. Oh, you think my tax money is going to Israel via my corrupt and Zionist Fascist (redundant) fuckedup (redundant) government. Ah I see. You think I'd have more influence on my sqeamish Lib peers from a jail cell. Or I could stop eating, paying taxes to corporates who pay them to Fascist governments but wtf do I accomplish? If anything, it's either immolate my bloated self like the bravest man of our generation, Aaron Bushnell, bless him, or stay alive and proselytize. Now let me see if I have any kerosene.
Getting a buddy would make it easier. The banks don't do anything right away but it's up to each of us to get at least one other to do this with us and we share experiences. The banks won't do anything for months, even years, if you just throw their letters in the trash without even opening them. They are abou to pull the rug right out from under us with this digital bank system which will probably slice the value of the dollar to worthless and bring in their digital system. Or we can do nothing. Or maybe you have another suggestion? We really could start talking about what we CAN do while we've got a smidgen of a chance to do anything. Because once their digital system comes in, we're toast. We won't have much chance to do anything then, we'd have absolutely no leverage. While this dollar is still active, we need to put a spanner in their works. Each of us needs to actively be involved in getting at least one other to buddy with us. Otherwise, go suck your thumb.
If we stop paying taxes we'll get fined and pay more. I don't know how to stop it. The Israeli power over our country, the US, is clearly massive. It's absurd to me that at least a so-called two state solution wasn't created from the beginning, though I think creaating Israel itself on Palestinian land was pure theft. If you're asking why I wouldn't want the Israeli Zionists to come here, it's because the place is already swarming with fascists. We need fewer, not more.
The entire game they play is to make you think there is any difference between countries. All of them are in it together. Maybe a handful of small countries that show disgruntlement with that, but it's all about global control. All the resources are in their favor - the media, finance, police, military, sycophants. The works except for one thing - our power to choose to do something completely different and out-of-the-box that isn't in their contingency. Throw them off their perch a bit. Then we go with the next venture, and then the next. I think we could pull it off because the banksters wouldn't want it to come out about the way money is created, that interest is never put into the economy or in other words, the money supply. It virtually does not exist to be able for it to be paid.
But it would need to be a mass collective effort and for that we would need to communicate with and educate large numbers of people, like Fox does, but truthful.
What we need is to become the beacons. They are no models for our children so we have to model the new human. You simply dismissed that idea of stop paying taxes because you fear them. Fear is their weapon. Fear takes us out of our powerful frequency spectrum. We need to talk about how we stop paying taxes. We need to coordinate all our moves. Because you can bet they are and they are chomping at our heels. But they're nudging us, forcing us even, to stand up to them and to show them they are nothing but dangerous global hoodlums. We can work out how we stop paying taxes but the easiest thing to do is to stop paying interest to banks. Anyone can do that, it is a matter of choice. Do it with a buddy, pledge to do it openly on a database made for that purpose. Psychopaths hide behind censorship. They cannot thrive in transparency. They know everything we say and do anyway with their surveillance, why not go the whole hog and make ourselves public? Living in the open is the wrong "ph" for psychopaths. Yes, it's difficult, but so is living in this asylum. Do you want to disarm them? If so let's all start talking about coordinating it.
I think the biggest hold they have over us is disinformation via Fox. Somehow we need to reach the people. The Repuke gameplay has been brilliant. The Democrats are mostly bought, and asleep at the wheel. The pukes probably have a lot more money because that is all they care about, but the left should have enough to start some competing media. Nothing too hard to follow and must be entertaining lol. To be honest, I'm afraid we're screwed. We need an FDR or JFK or MLK. They're hard to find.
Yes but they shouldn't fill out tax forms. The pay they can't choose but they can choose to not fill out their insufferable and time-wasting forms. They know everything about us anyway, why fill out anything. But one thing we can do if we have bank loans is stop paying the interest. Just the interest for starters. And give away 50% of that saving to someone you know and can talk to. Not some big conglomerate or charity. Someone you can see is progressing from your weekly sharing of the money you save for not paying interest on your bank loans. This also will mean the community will have support for you because the savings are being shared with them. It is a win/win, but you've got to have some cojones and not be scared of what will happen. Because we really don't know that. And with paying loans, that is leverage that can be used.
Tell you what, gyp dear. Even though it's my native city, I'd support this, but only if we require them to PAY -- sell them Noo Yawk for big shekels, maybe enough to cover the national debt -- or at minimum, reimburse us all the billions in "aid" and munitions we've forked over. Money makes the vorld go 'round.
Well yes Vin. I always feel a bit guilty for universally dissing NY because of the non-Zios there. The Puerto Ricans are super-nice people in my experience, along with others.
I guess we’ll have to relocate them before we set off an underground nuke that sends NY spinning into the sea. Boom.
Puerto Ricans are indeed very nice folks in general, gyp. In grad school I lived in a bldg. approximately a third each Anglo, African-American and Hispanic-American , mostly PR. We were a peaceful community; got along great. Because no bloody Zionists to piss off the rest of us.
Yes that's a good one. I like that for criminals in a sovereign-based society. My image is that we find an island that is far away from everything. We take a load of them, naked, with nothing just holding a sandwich for their next meal, and drop them off at this island to enjoy each other's company and find their own survival needs for the rest of their lives. Such a satisfying image it leaves in my mind. It reminds me of a picture of two squabbling children both fitting into the one t-shirt till they sort out their differences.
The key comment today, Vin, in Caitlin's writing and Tim's reading is........................
the last few words, the shame of it all and the disgrace that will always be there for all to see..........
"...........and the western empire’s support for it."
There's the greatest crime of all. Yes, Israel's butchery is shameful enough, but the total disregard for the happenings in Palestine by the Western governments, as well as the toothless United Nations and the associated shameful media coverage is, in my mind, the crime to beat all crimes in my lifetime and that includes WWII. Since that time as we have seen the well promoted ‘holocaust’ and 'antiSemitic' marketing plans which has been promoted and played out by the so-called "victims" of WWII. (big celebrations recently in Auswitzch, you might remember). Has that had any effect on the Israeli mentality in the support of those crimes every day now, every day in some way since WWII. Clearly NO. (My apologies to the few exceptions, the decent Jewish people, but one only has to view the responses to pro-Palestine actions by Jewish people, those same people attacking supporters on University grounds to know that the support demonstrated in most countries is for Israel, not for Palestine. Well organised, well funded. Government supported as well in the main and in the USA, assisted by masked police called ICE. (aka US Gestapo)
Not represented that way of course, in the media.
Yes, we all know that the current Gaza ethnic cleansing is not being carried out by all the Jewish citizens in other countries, but nor has that same group been active enough in their own countries to pressure governments to change their corrupted attitudes. They have often encouraged the use of US and other citizens to become IDF members, to leave the country in which they are regarded as loyal citizens and fight unarmed civilians, to rape, bomb and starve people in another country, returning home as local heroes. In the USA, still citizens of the USA though......no problem there in any way at all. Never gets a mention, because under the current regime in power in America, this is not an un-American activity deserving of investigation.
What absolute hypocrisy one would think! But is it?
Of course not, That same country, the USA, America.....call it what you will......supports the actions of killing, rape, starvation, child murder, delivering billions of dollars worth of weaponry to what they obviously regard as the new master race (previously Germany's nom de plume), with 86% of their elected politicians funded by local American domiciled Israeli puppets, the Musks and the Adelson's to name just two. All quite legal.
You don't have to think it will sink us. Please think that we'll get out of it. I'd love this to happen - that Americans got so sick and tired of banksters that the people that wanted to, got together with at least one other that wanted to, and together they stop paying interest on any of their loans including mortgages. Ignore all correspondence from the bank or answer if you wish but there's no need to because believing in their authority is merely that - a belief. They've already cheated us of so much, they don't need an explanation. Share the savings you make by donating it to someone you know who could use something extra. Only to people you can talk to not to any conglomerate that calls itself a charity. And definitely don't claim taxes on it. Just joking for that one. Try to get the buddy you get, for him to get one more buddy, and that buddy gets one more, etc, so we all make a sort of chain. But we reap the benefits for once! Keep paying the principle as you can hold that as ransom if the banker's want to play hardball. This is one good way to sock it to the banksters. Can you imagine what that would do? It takes a long time to carry out evictions so don't let that stop you. Write to the bank if you wish informing them that you know about the strawman birth certificate trust accounts. And I bet you'll never hear from them again. Of course those who don't have the cojones do nothing but there must be some who would do this. They're not going to stop till we give them a schlapping.
What you seem to forget/ignore, C33, is all the non-Jewish people that support Israel and Zionism - all the Christian Zionists (in western countries), so many Hindus (in India), all the atheists that support Israel (for one reason or the other), all the 'BIG MONEY' that does not care about religion or ideologies, but instead supports Israel (and Zionism) because Israel plays a significant role in the process of THEIR wealth creation.
Hence, for everyone that seems to want to blame 'Jews' alone for this (instead of blaming Israeli culture and the ideology of Zionism), is relying more on EMOTIONS than rational deliberation.
BTW, I am not Jewish and neither am I religious (I'm an atheist).
I am not forgetting or ignoring the people you mention, Chang. Not at all. Just trying to hit my understanding of the main players as part of a hopefully relevant response while trying to keep my comment down to a reasonable size.
I could have mentioned all the English born supporters in the City of London environment, (all denominations), New York as well ...thick on the ground, Rothchilds staff and their followers of all religious denominations. And there are many.
Money has always been the greatest motivator, whatever one's religious beliefs.
Almost every attendee at Davos in Switzerland, every second corrupted politician in Australia and the UK and the USA and France, the very malleable Saudi "Royal" (whatever that means) hierarchy, the UAE and so many well known supporters throughout S E Asia. They have all survived and progressed while others have perished.
They have all been in this game a long time. In fact well before WWII (the UK, Balfour and his clan) and have been prepared to sacrifice principles for profit. Perhaps a good time to stop on the identification trail as one comment of length is enough for one day.
AND BTW, to copy your final words...."I am not Jewish and neither am I religious (I'm an atheist)", ....ditto, but I do love justice, truth, human equality and rational principles based on REASON. Reasons alone to dislike Western governments, American military expansion, (the reason for all the world's problems) and finally, the totally corrupt media.
I also appreciate energetic writers, of which we have many. You being one.
Going back to the role of temples and priests in shaping very early societies from more matriarchal toward more patriarchal, I say lock up all the priests, ministers rabbis, imams, etc. and otherwise mute the influence of their fabulist allegories, which somehow modern humans are able to recognize in say Greek mythology, but not in Biblical and other "holy book" allegories fueling the dogma of major religions (e.g., resurrections from the dead).
That won't really help Vin. Religion has (for much of history) been used as just ONE of multiple pathways to POWER and wealth accumulation.
In the past, religions played a more prominent role in the pursuit of wealth/power/control/etc. These days, it is economic systems (like capitalism) that are the prominent pathways to wealth and power.
So what many of the people at the top of such systems do in recent history is to HIJACK the 'old pathways' used by religions (here I'm talking about the complete industry of religions - for ALL religions on earth).
Hence, getting rid of 'religious figureheads' (many of which I consider to be puppets in the grand scheme of someone else's game), may not avail us the results/outcomes we are hoping for.
It would not likely help now, of course. I'm talking punishment for past transgressions; I'm in a nasty fucking mood today after being on the phone with tech "help". There's a cultural anthropological line of thinking that prehistoric human societies might well have remained matriarchal had it not been for that temple/priestly influence; that was my initial reference. The rest of it is my residue as a former brain-wasted Cathodic, the scars always exerting their impact, all these years later.
I don't think the temple/priestly/religious-institutions were the CAUSE of a society moving away from matriarchy to patriarchy. I think the opposite - that because societies were transforming awary from matriarchy (for a variety of reasons - one has to dig into historical and anthropological fields here and the many theories for this), the NEED for 'religious institutions' and 'religious indoctrination' arose to serve the purposes of society (and those of TPTB of those ancient societies).
I often wonder about the "state" designation for Israel, and even when they say "two state" solution. What I mean is, and I could be ignorant of how this works, but doesn't a state have to be a part of a country? Or is a state equivalent to a country? I can see how Israel is functioning like it is a "country" but it has always been mentioned as a "state". Is Israel the 51st "state" of the US?
I also wonder how such a "state" can have so much power equivalent to that of a country.
Why don't they just call Israel a country? It is very confusing. Is that the point? Israel acts like a country but is constantly being called a "state".
Here in the US, if one state feels threatened by another state, does that state have the right to go to war against the other state? Of course not. I'm just wondering about this designation. What are your thoughts?
A state is a county. America is made up of fifty countries. These United States(Countries) of America. Note it is 'these' not 'the'. That is something we the people have forgotten and that all the power is with us. All over the world the power is with the people. Also a Nation is not a state or county, it is people. A Nation is made up of people not lines on a map or the dirt in a given area.
A state could declare war on another state if they chose.
A country is a set of geographical boundaries. It is physical.
A nation is a group of people with a shared set of principles and attitudes.
A state is an organizational system that administers the laws that govern a nation of people who live within the boundaries of a particular country.
When the 13 former British colonies in America formed a union, they relinquished their separateness. The Civil War contested that idea but the Union forces won the war (Personally, I think it would have been better all around to allow the southern states to secede, but nobody asked me).
The power is not with the people, it is with the people who hold the power. Try not to forget that. Or risk spending the rest of your life in a high-security super-prison.
And for a state within the US to make war against another state is beyond absurd.
Whatever it is you are huffing, please stop before your brain and liver are damaged beyond repair.
1) I assume that you mean "It has NO right to exist" and that you are not making a statement about yourself.
2) Actually, Israel is a state. Sure, it is also an atrocity perpetrated by maniacs, but that does not stop in from being a state. Many states are atrocities perpetrated by maniacs. In fact, one could argue that most of them are . . .
Why as a member of the biosphere, who understands its dynamic as well as they can be understood, and respects the principles of its dynamics, would I be silly enough to make such a statement about myself. That part of your statement is nonsensical on its face, whereas your #2 about other states is quite true. So what? I'd argue that, based on performance, none of them have aright to exist given their relationship to both that Biosphere (anti-Biosphere philosophies of continual economic growth) or contrary to the common welfare of the majority of their citizens. But I'd also argue that Israel is currently the most blatant exemplar of the genre . . . (ellipses notwithstanding).
Look at Herzl’s Judenstaat which didn’t even consider the people in Palestine but for a mention of “barbarism”. That’s a Jewish state conception long before Balfour. Look at Arthur Ruppin’s beliefs which were that of Hans Gunther and national socialist—he was a racial theorist, basically eugenicist and Jewish supremacist—that is, for European Jews, supremacist jews within Jews! And he was a big figure in Zionism before WWII. Look at the Histadrut which excluded Arab labor long before 1948. There was never an intention to blend in and join society there but rather to make a Jewish state and that demanded a very large majority and thus expulsion of Palestinians and theft of 80% or so of what became Israel.
I have a hard time wrapping my brain around the "racist" part of this whole thing. Jews look like white folks to me. I mean seriously, they sure are not brown. Then again, there are converted Jews from all ethnic groups so, I am a bit confused about the racism thing. What makes Jews different from white folks? Especially European Jews.
If it's about some DNA that only Jews have other than other ethnic groups, then wouldn't it be more of eugenics than racism?
I have read something about it being not allowed to take a DNA test. But seriously, if folks took a DNA test would there be some type of indicator that only ethnic Jews have? And with all the mixing that humans have done over time, couldn't that indicator be found in a lot of people?
When this thing happened after the Hamas attack, and these folks were all in the news, to be honest, it looked like brother against brother. I saw blonde haired blue-eyed Palestinians, and dark eyes, dark hair, Israelis. So what's the difference? In fact a lot of Arabs converted to Judaism and are currently in Palestine and all over the Middle East.
Now, I do see Zionism as a unifier. Anyone can be a Zionist.
What's the difference between a Jew and a Hebrew?
I was of the mind that Judaism was the religion of the Hebrews. Am I wrong here?
When I listen to Zionist Rabbis, their position is that anyone, and I mean absolutely anyone, who is not a Jew (follower of the Torah/Talmud) should be annihilated so Mashiach can return.
It seems all convoluted to me, especially since Herzl was purported to be an atheist.
The racial component of Zionism is truly mythological nonsense and as ill-defined as a Nazi Aryan. Feel free to read my post Fraud of Israel for a more thorough treatment so I don’t just repeat that here and feel free to comment there, too. Thanks
It's simple really, Nana. It's all about 'ideologies of supremacy' - a way of justifying why you are better than others - why you should receive special treatment over others - why you deserve more in life than others - why you're entitled to more - why the rules for others don't apply to you - why you are above the limitations of morals placed on others.
Take ANY billionaire or oligarch and you will discover that they think in this way. Take ANY supremacist ideology (Aryan supremacy, Jewish supremacy, Hindu supremacy, White supremacy, etc.), and it's the same 'rationalizing' logic being used by ALL these groups.
These "eugenicists" AKA fake fucking KNOW-NOTHING biologists, who in the absence of any significant molecular knowledge back then, demonstrated some of the grandest hubris in history with their horrendous theories that were/ that are essentially gigantic piles of merda proffered as "science". As a biologist, my anger at these simpletons and their unsupported rubbish enrages me sufficiently that I'd fucking beat their asses on the spot were they still alive and I encountered one of their sorry forms in front of me. I'd beat them so hard they'd wish they'd never have grown cerebral interneurons with which to formulate any ideas whatsoever. A grander travesty and blight on human ideation is hard to find for me personally.
I went to Israel a number of years ago, before it had become clear to me what it was. At the time I absorbed these stories about socialist utopia Israel: Hagganah vs Irgun, Labor vs Likud, secular vs religious etc etc. But I would see all these futurist socialist buildings projects/in disrepair and ruined, a bit like the lost future you see in ex-Yugoslavia. That version of Israel had clearly fallen by the wayside.
And I would notice that even progressive "One State" Israelis insist that they should be allowed to live in "Judea and Samaria" against the will of Palestinians. They couldn't let go of the expansionist impulse riding roughshod over the people they claimed to want peace with.
I noticed how settlements were deliberately planned growing out of Jerusalem to ring and isolate Palestinian villages and incorporate the land into Israel and Jewish control. I'd see maps without any label on Gaza, and no border around "Judea and Samaria". It became clear that the framing I'd grown up with, that this was a religious-based "Israelis Palestinian conflict" with a "Peace ProcessTM" was a lie. All I saw was one wealthy and powerful people with imperial backing who came to the land of another and utterly steamrolled them into ghettos and refugee camps without even basic rights, stealing their land and resources. A one-sided conflict.
From what we've seen now, it's no surprise liberal zionism fell by the wayside, it's contradictions were too great to survive. An egalitarian socialist experiment within a racist colonial apartheid state created by ethnic cleansing and terror. And now we can see the unbroken line from the very beginning, the promise to create a Jewish-only sovereign state over all of Palestine, without Palestinians in it, by any means necessary. It's never been anything else, and Israel has so clearly defined itself, so deeply inked itself into the judgements of history that no good faith person can argue that it is anything other than an ongoing act of aggression, ethnic cleansing, apartheid, and genocide against native Palestinians and Arabs by a European-founded fanatic militarized settler colony and its psychopathic imperial patrons, and an act of violence and sadism against humanity itself.
Well said! I've long maintained that there's no such thing as a left-wing (or progressive) Israeli. Anyone who embraces the racist, supremacist, apartheid ideology called Zionism can never be considered to be left wing.
"The apple tree will only produce apples, and the genocide tree will only produce genocide."
Well said. I'm growing impatient with those who keep trying to blame only Netanyahu or Biden or Trump or "Hamas" for this genocide. Recent polls show that the vast majority of Israelis want to commit genocide and starve Palestinians. If Israel was an apple tree, it would be the wormiest, most sour, rotten to the core crab apple tree. Chop it down! #FreePalestine
Not to mention, if you just chop down the tree and don't remove the roots, it will just grow back. In other words, the so-called leaders are in the forefront, but I always say, it's the order-followers who carry out the mission of their commanders. They are the root of the tree. Getting rid of Netanyahu, Biden, Trump or Hamas will not cure the ill that is rampant in society. It will only be like chopping off a few branches. The roots will continue to grow and eventually it will produce the same fruit.
>>"but I always say, it's the order-followers who carry out the mission of their commanders. They are the root of the tree."
I would say the OPPOSITE. Take the example of Nazi Germany. No matter how many Nazis died, as long as the HEAD (root) - that is Hitler and his top level people - existed, they could ALWAYS recruit more followers to do their bidding.
It's the same logic/dynamics as in CULTS. Remove the cult 'leader/figurehead' AND give the cult followers an opportunity to de-cult, de-program, and de-indoctrinate themselves, and soon enough many of them realize things that would have seemed impossible for them to realize earlier.
What's different, IMHO, between ordinary CULTS (based mostly on leaders) and Ideologies (with prominent proponents of the ideology being populists/demagogues) is that these 'ideologies' have been normalized over generations (if not centuries) to be acceptable. The sickness of the ideology/system has spread through the roots, through other methods of pollination, etc. far and wide.
>>"Getting rid of Netanyahu, Biden, Trump or Hamas will not cure the ill that is rampant in society."
Yes, SYSTEMS need to CHANGE for real, lasting change. It's like the old adage about 'doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results'. If you put homo-sapiens in systems that produce the same results over-and-over-again, then it doesn't surprise me in the least that we get the kind of world we are currently living in.
"That’s the usa, the state. Not just trump. Not just ICE/Homeland Security. Not just “far right elements within the usa government”. The usa itself. Because everything we are seeing the usa do is the result of everything the usa is as a state.
Everything the usa is doing is the result of everything it has always been. As soon as the west decided to drop a settler-colonialist state on top of a pre-existing civilization wherein the new immigrants would receive preferential treatment over the indigenous inhabitants who were already living there, it became inevitable that the usa would wind up in the condition it’s in today.
Because there was no way to uphold that status quo without mass displacement and nonstop tyranny, violence and abuse. There was no way to set up a tiered society where one tier is placed above the other without indoctrinating the public to accept that apartheid system by systematically dehumanizing the members of the disempowered group."
But is it as simple really as "the nature of Empire"? Has Empire always behaved this way in history? And if so, what does it foretell about the future of human societs and civilizations (assuming that it is quite likely that there will always be one or more Empires vying for domination and control over an ever-dwindling availability of resources)?
When human beings decided that being in a local clan was restrictive, or when they ran out of resources, say the nomadic ones, or maybe all of the above, it just sucks, Empires suck, and their managers suck as well. It’s just the nature of Empire. And as long as humans are covetous, greedy, and power hungry, it will continue to happen.
Empires are macrocosms of the microcosm. We can see this happen in very intimate situations that can balloon into national to international situations. There’s also the need for cult-like indoctrination so as to get the support of the masses.
Have you ever seen the movie, “The Gods Must Be Crazy”? If not check it out. It shows what happens when the idea of scarcity comes into being and how human beings respond to it.
I think that scarcity is an inherent myth propped up by those who want to justify “stealing” from another. Human beings are quite ingenious. The idea that humans “need” more than what is available to them has been used to justify taking from another. Globalism is just another fancy word for Empire Building, creating the idea that what is over there somewhere is what we need instead of utilizing the abundance that is around us. The Western world has propped itself on top of the “others’ resources instead of being content and creative with what’s available here. I could go on, but I don’t want to make this too long.
>>"And as long as humans are covetous, greedy, and power hungry, it will continue to happen."
That is something I think about that could be an interesting debate to be had ->
"Is it intrinsic human nature that has a greater influence on how we behave" OR "is it the SYSTEMS that humans are bound to (often without choice) and within which humans are compelled to find strategies for survival that have a greater influence on human behavior"?
My take is that human nature is exceptionally malleable, and we are a product of many factors other than just 'genetics and DNA'. I'm not suggesting the extremes of Steven Pinker's "The Blank Slate" or that of B. F. Skinner's "Theory of Behaviorism" either.
Here's the question that I think really needs to be discussed/addressed (by humanity) -> Could we DESIGN BETTER SYSTEMS to produce better behaviors and outcomes (that benefit all humans, other species, and the planet)?
Or have humans not yet reached the state of evolutionary maturity in which they would be capable of designing such systems and following through on the implementations of such?
This may sound Idealist, but I think we need systems that honor and respect nature with a dose of “do no harm” in the mix. Even when the so-called primitive natives hunt animals for food, they thank the animal for giving its life for their sustenance. The industrial world does not honor nature and does a lot of harm, however, everyone in it is addicted to the convenience it provides. Therefore, unless we get 40 days and 40 nights that drown out all the inhabitants, including Noah, we are on a runaway locomotive that will eventually be derailed. We probably won’t live to see it, but I predict that is the trajectory. Humans will be forced to go back to nature and give thanks 🙏🏾🙏🏾
>>"Set up a status quo of dehumanizing a group of people and manufacturing consent for violence and abuse against them, and you will inevitably wind up with a far right apartheid state which is committing genocide, as surely as dropping a stone off a building will result in a stone falling to the ground."
Caitlin - for a minute, I was wondering if you were talking about Israel or the U.S. (based on its history)...they have so much in common, share so much in common (besides the system of capitalism, racism, police and surveillance states, operations that terrorize people all over the world, and so much more).
Somedays, it's hard for me to draw a line as to where Israel ends and the U.S. begins...(of course I know that Israel is a crucial part of the much larger U.S. Empire - hence taking down Israel will necessitate serious implications and consequences for America too - since I really don't know if Israel can be morphed into something better (hopefully Palestine) without it having a serious impact on the existing state of the U.S. - and as a result, the rest of the world...)
I think of it more as the 'bastard offspring' of psychopathic and sociopathic parents. Parents that have tolerated (and even enouraged and sometimes trained) and indulged their child into getting away with whatever it wants. A spoiled, bratty, selfish child that has never grown out of its adolscent immaturity, that has never needed to work out for itself 'right from wrong' - and who has now become a monster that the parents are not able to bring to heel anymore...
Then again, I am no family/child psychologist/psychotherapist - so who knows?
Well, I don't think you are too far off the mark. I am a Psychologist and I would say that if we use the construct you presented, the parents would be all nations, especially the US and Israel's European allies have allowed its child, Israel to get away with absolute murder, literally. That the systems that were designed to keep other countries in check would be equated to the penal system have also "looked" the other way. And I would strongly concur, that the Parents have been terrible examples so they to are responsible for the role model they gave to their "belligerent child". I would also add, that when a child has no one to hold them to heel, they may definitely act out, but much of that is coming from feeling insecure, unprotected and in some instance violated because those who were entrusted to keep them safe, did not.. When I think of it this way.. it becomes clear that Israel is a failed State filled with fear, uncertainty and insecurity because it was never given proper guidance or held to account when it strayed from the path.
I would add to that by saying that it should NEVER have been born in the first place. Weren’t there birth control and contraceptions in the 1940s? Did they simply forget to use protection? 😄 Or maybe they hoped that their ‘bastard child’ would be of use to them sometime in the future and would do/carry-out whatever ‘dirty work’ its parents needed to get done?
LOL, it was born out of the “rapture of love” you know that moment when you were supposed to “pull out” but it was so good you didn’t? Or how about the prophylactic burst, or the rhythm method days got mixed up, or the “oh well we’ll just deal with it nine months from now” or how about, “leave me alone I don’t want to do this right now! or…. “hey, we are superior and we need many little nutcases like us so let’s make man.” Whatever the case may be, somebody should have said, um, I don’t think this is a good idea so let’s build bridges instead of concentration camps.
Every word you write, Caitlin, is the straight-on, unvarnished truth. This is probably a truism, but somehow (inevitably?) this Colonial Zionist mentality has its roots in the 3,000-year history of arrogance of a people who dare term themselves "God's chosen people." This arrogance -- this false pride -- simply must be torn down, limb by limb by brain malfunction, until the world corrects itself.
The Irony of being "God's Chosen People". The fact that that is acceptable by other folks who claim to be of the Abrahamic faith is mystifying to me.
That very statement infers a superiority over all of the other people God created. Was Adam and Eve "God's Chosen People"? LOL. I'm just saying. Judaism is an invented religion with claims that are similarly invented.
I always say, considering what the so-called Jews have done, if they are chosen by God, what kind of God chose them?
We have the propensity in society to look at the parents of a child when it participates in deviant, non-social and detrimental behavior. Should we not question the "God" that chose them based on their behavior? Makes me wonder.
All religions are invented (by humans). One could even say that 'God' has been invented by humans.
>>"I always say, considering what the so-called Jews have done, if they are chosen by God, what kind of God chose them?"
That - to me - is just another BULLSHIT narrative claimed by the followers of a particular faith, just as most (if not all) religions have their own 'narratives' to justify their beliefs.
I'm an atheist, and I look at things from a different perspective that what a religious/spiritual person might look from. All religions, in fact ALL belief systems, usually have narratives that help its followers adhere to the dictates of those belief systems. In that respect, I don't consider Judaism to be that different from other religions (monotheistic or polytheistic).
Get outta here lady. “Don't dehumanize the genociders”. Sure, I'll just sing kumbaya with them till they find their humanity and empathy 🙄 There is no coming back from this. There is no humanity in them. They are nothing but monsters. Not human. You can't dehumanize what isn't human.
Not what I said, but I guess you're not willing to accept that people are capable of killing people yet. We have to accept that can happen if we want to understand how to stop it.
Are you retarded? I know exactly what you said and what you meant and I have a problem with your first sentence because you're arguing about semantics when people are being butchered by fucking zionazi DEMONS in human flesh. I know they're fucking human but they're not human where it counts. They are physically human. Inside they are aberrations, and their humanity is non-existent. Do you understand what I mean now??
God I fucking hate people like you. Go fuck off and troll someone else with your BS stupidity.
How does one describe a society where 82% of the population (according to a recent poll) want complete annihilation or removal of its indigenous population?! Only 9% agree on some sort of autonomy or rights. Where are those righteous 9% with their placards protesting the genocide being committed by their beloved state? I think Max Blumenthal describes the Zionist state pretty accurately: a state with “satanic” people. When it comes to comparing the Zionist state with the 3rd Reich, Chas Freeman puts it very succinctly: the same objectives, strategy, and implementations. In other words, they are very similar, and they’ve learned from their ex-captors. And he goes on to say, the only difference is “ovens”; and if they could get away with it and introduce it in this century, they would.
The ovens are the bombs dropped incinerating Palestinians into non existence. Not a shred remains to identify the murdered. 7 nuclear bombs worth of bombs. It's a holocaust.
“ What we are seeing in Gaza today was baked into the state of Israel ever since its inception.”
For 77 years the world has yawned as Israel has committed crimes against humanity against the Palestinian people. If the Nakba had upset governments they would have done something about Israel then, but when they didn’t they told us that this was the plan all along. Kill and cleanse Palestinians until the only people left in what was once Palestine were Israelis. Not people indigenous to the area, but from Jews from the areas around Ukraine. The Palestinians are the true semites.
Tired of maintaining so many priests of so many deities, in the second half of the 14th century, Pharaoh Amenhotep IV (1375-1336 BC) and his wife Nefertiti had the idea of a single god, Aton, the sun, and after five years of reign, Amenhotep took the name Akhenaton and moved the capital from Thebes to Akhetaton (now Amarna) which he founded. After his death, in circumstances never explained, the priests reintroduced polytheism. His son, Tutankhamun, (1341-1323 BC) attempted to restore monotheism but died very young.
The Jews descend from the Khabiri revolutionaries who lived in a land west of the Jordan that was part of the Egyptian empire. In the second half of the 8th century BC, the Jewish tribes were in conflict with each other and Isaiah (765-700 BC) had the idea of resuming the cult of the one god, Yahweh, and convinced the tribal leaders that they had to be in solidarity with each other to form that people chosen by God and dominate all other peoples.
And when in 601 BC the king of Judah Jehoiakim rebelled against Babylon and was defeated, another prophet explained that it had depended on the will of God to test his people. Then, in the 6th century BC, the writing of the history of the Jews began in Judea on the basis of previous oral and written traditions, in particular the so-called Deuteronomist source of the 7th century BC, from Abraham to Moses. So many stories between pieces of reality and propaganda, while the fact remains that Jewish researchers, after having excavated for years, have not found any temple in Jerusalem but only bivouacs of desert nomads.
Monotheism is no different from solitary confinement. All it does is teach people to be obedient, for fear of punishment from an all-knowing vague entity.
There is no 2 state solution. there I only 1 state solution and that is a free, sovereign Palestinian state. the israelis have to be moved out of the Middle East.
By force. By death. I don't care. They can go to Hell.
There are, at least, three main forces working together here. Power, Profits, and Prophets. The ‘what’ can be explained to a large extent by the first two; the ‘where’ is the result of the third element. That, of course, being the most irrational of all.
There is also no alternate version of the rest of the world that is letting these atrocities happen. Everything we are watching Israel do to Palestine is what can be done to all of us. Other colonizers also thought they should get preferential treatment over the people that were already living there. They also dehumanized the people who were living on the land they wanted. Israel is happening for all of us to see, but it isn't the first time it has happened and if they get away with it, it won't be the last.
They've been going at Russia forever and another attempt has been underway in its acute phase since 2014. Lula of Brazil says Biden told him "Russia should be destroyed" - https://www.rt.com/news/618620-biden-destroy-russia-lula/
The USA and Europe have committed themselves once more and unless some miracle occurs - we're headed towards nuclear disaster.
Caitlin, you wrapped it! I have long maintained that izrael cannot exist any longer. It must go. Whatever way!
Its entire concept was an atrocity from at least 1917 onwards. Cooly decided by the Jewish Colonial Council: Steal the land. Drive out the owners. Period.
No fuccking way do they have ANY rights!-
-End izrael!-
Yes, these perp's are always the same mind set and they always play the victim. Enough!
Israel is unique in terms of colonisation in that it was founded in genocidal bigotry with a policy of extermination of the native people. No other colonisation was founded with such a policy, regardless of any crimes later committed.
And, there is a big difference between Israel doing what it is doing in the 20th and 21st centuries, as compared to past centuries across thousands of years of humans colonising across the globe.
Thank you ! I bet you have in mind the US ? For example.
I am reading "A People's History of the United States, 1492 to present" by Howard Zinn. It is horrible how similar the thinking was when the colonizers came to the Americas. Israel is a clone of the US.
Imagine if Zinn were taught in every US history classroom, rather than the unmitigated crap they feed US high school kids about 'Murica. This country might be 50% less FUBAR.
It should be taught in every classroom everywhere so that people know just how America got to be so "great", but we can't have people knowing the truth about their greedy and murderous ancestors. The people who came to America and did what they did were Europeans before they became Amurrcans.
Same result in all those early colonial empires following Western expansion, mainly from Europe as you said. Some almost still as bad today as then in some aspects, such as respect, equality and justice.
It has been the same in all countries, Susan.
Some worse than others, exampled by South Africa, Australia and the USA, all history books showing the same level of fiction.
Not a lot to be proud of in those early days.
Not too much to be proud of in these later days either. Odd how we could have such murderous, greedy, grabby inhumane people governing us at the same time such beautiful art and music was being made. But then, the artists and musicians were not treated very well either. Too often they had to bow down to "power." We still have a lot of beautiful art and music, but too much of that has been co-opted by the quest for dollars.
Nepotism always shows its distorted countenance.
Israel is not a state. It is an atrocity perpetrated by a few maniacs on the rest of humanity. I has NO right to exist. Period.
>>"...perpetrated by a few maniacs..."
Vin, ONLY a few maniacs? Not the way I see it. I see it as being perpetrated by a whole hoarde of psychopaths, sociopaths (and all their bootlicking, ingratiating, toadying, grovelling, subservient sycophants). It is unlikely that the 'settler-colonial' project that is Israel could have survived this long without SIGNIFICANT support from so many immoral/amoral/indifferent/etc. humans.
That's WHAT scares me more - that it is us, humans, that are capable of such EVIL. And for what? So that we can live fancy, rich, lives and look down on everyone else? So that we can remain at the top of the 'proverbial food chain' and gloat that we are superior to everyone else we're surrounded by? I think THAT is the biggest ILLUSION that these 'psychopaths and sociopaths' seem to want to indulge in.
Yes,Chang. It is greed, hatred and delusion.
Yes, Indu. To add to that, I would surmise that it is also the perceived FEAR of all kinds (held inside the minds of TPTB), insecurities of TPTB (real or imagined) manifested in different ways onto the outside world and OTHERS, and possibility inferiority complexes? (manifested by shows of ego, false bravado/courage, and narcissism, not to mention bullying and strongman strategies).
Relative numbers, Chang - thousands of wealthy maniacs -- even scores of thousands compared to the 8.2 billion proles on the planet.
I sadly agree, Chang. Israël will make us get lost all of us, the so-called Westerners. In Europe, fascism is knocking on the doors.
Are we going to continue to solve obliteration with more obliteration? Can we come up with something that's not barbaric? How about Israeli's move to America? That is plenty of space here. And since the two are bosom buddies, it seems the most obvious thing to do. And the Palestinians can go back to their land in peace.
Sounds like a plan, but you're leaving out a big piece of the puzzle. Israel exists "there" because it has claimed the Holy Land to be its own according to its archaic scriptures. Their mission is have a Greater Israel, which takes up a huge swath of land that includes 5 neighboring countries.
Moving to the US would never do. Not to mention, Zionists don't make good neighbors.
Why should anyone care what Israel wants? They are malignant murderers. The logic of taking land that they claim was once where they lived is bogus. Imagine if that applied to others, to the US for instance or Australia who took the lands of the original peoples. Israel needs to be ostracized like all psychopaths should. Not forever, just till they make amends.
When I heard that half a million Israelis had left Israel, my first thought was "I hope they don't come here."
The ones leaving are the ones opposed to this crap. It means the ones remaining are the extremists.
And that's probably a chief reason Israel is as extreme as it is--the people who couldn't stomach what Israel was, who weren't swallowing Jewish supremism, have been leaving for generations--leaving behind the hard-core, the ones with weak moral sense. Because this what Israel has always been. though it has gone into an extreme phase now.
But I've had the same thought as Susan, when I say, "Israel has forfeited its right to exist if it ever had it--what should happen is that all the Jews should have to leave Palestine except those who can live in harmony with their mostly Arab Muslim neighbors--a percentage somewhere in the single digits. There are plenty of countries that would take them, including mine--but I'd hope they wouldn't choose my state, we have enough racists already.
Hi Mary
My state has a large Arab and Muslim population who would make like very, very unpleasant for them.
In fact: send ‘em here. We’ll deal with ‘em!
Not necesssarily, Paul.
They’re the ones who can no longer make a living there, since IsraHell’s economy is in the shithole.
Lately, Americans don't make good neighbors (especially for those with brown skin).
no, I don't want them here. they can go to hell.
I feel you. But even if it means the Palestinians will be free to live in their homeland without the pestilence? What about an isolated dry place somewhere in New Mexico or Nevada?
Thanks, but no thanks. I live in NM. Put 'em in the old White Sands nuke test site -- in tents -- fine, zip code is 88002; but keep 'em, away from Albuquerque and Santa Fe please; actually they probably already own the latter.
Yes? with americans being as racist as the israelis? Palestinians want their own land. I know and keep in constant touch with many Gazans. What i hear from them is that they want to stay. Pestilence can be treated and the buildings rebuilt. If Palestinians were to be taken to America they would be kept in reservations just like the Native Americans, the real owners of the land .
I'm talking about Israelis coming to America. And the pestilence I was referring to is the Israelis. Yes for sure if Palestinians came to America, unless we changed drastically, they would be kept in reservations. This may be going in another direction, but the idea that anyone owns land is fallacious. We all own all the land and nobody owns all the land. We're really just custodians and we need a new way of allocating land for a person's lifetime. We ought to be talking about how that could be done, without of course, anyone losing anything. We simply go forward in the new way we decide to go.
Would you like the israelis to move to the US? They would create the greater israel straightaway, especially with the vast majority of the politicians being zionists. And no, land is not everyone’s property especially if the invaders oppress the natives.
Wyoming
Send Israeli Zionists to the moon.
Or send them to Mars on a dodgy SpaceX rocket with (F)elon.
Oh, hell, no. We have enough insane zionists. Besides, their PLAN is for the Sanhedrin to rule the world from Israel through the establishment of the Noahide Laws. Don't EVER think they will stop at genociding Palestinians. Their PLAN is world domination...and genocide.
Ok well that's just the attitude we need. We can say how awful they are, we keep on funding them through taxes, we cry about Palestinians but you're not prepared to even consider for more than a nanosecond how you can REALLY do something to help. You don't even have a desire to help. This is what I see humans doing every day, several times per day. I don't believe in extra terrestrials but I've got to say it's embarrassing being part of this species.
The alternative would be to talk about it, at least have a conversation. But your first words were "NO". You need to read an article I wrote called "No. Not. Never.". We are living in the negative more than in the positive and we are totally clueless that our words create worlds.
Not no. Hell no. Get the quote right. And some of us have been against giving Israhell ANY money our whole lives. I'm almost 60 years old. I've been protesting against Israhell since I was 10 years old. Left a church over it, left friends over it, won't support it, won't have it. Genocidal maniacs need to be locked up and the key thrown away. Not given free money to create more genocidal maniacs.
How is it barbarism to take away its statehood, remove its seat on the UN, declare its population refugees, put its govt and businesses into receivership and apportion the money, the enormous profits from their surveillance system worldwide sales, back to its 7 million citizens, who are left to fend for their own individual derrieres in locating a new place to live -- no help with group relocation. There are Zionists throughout the world -- let them cleave to the bosoms of their own, but individually. Break up the group dynamic that fosters and perpetuates that societal-level sociopathy.
You're paying taxes? You're part of the problem.
Sorry, I'm missing a connection, if there is one. Oh, you think my tax money is going to Israel via my corrupt and Zionist Fascist (redundant) fuckedup (redundant) government. Ah I see. You think I'd have more influence on my sqeamish Lib peers from a jail cell. Or I could stop eating, paying taxes to corporates who pay them to Fascist governments but wtf do I accomplish? If anything, it's either immolate my bloated self like the bravest man of our generation, Aaron Bushnell, bless him, or stay alive and proselytize. Now let me see if I have any kerosene.
Getting a buddy would make it easier. The banks don't do anything right away but it's up to each of us to get at least one other to do this with us and we share experiences. The banks won't do anything for months, even years, if you just throw their letters in the trash without even opening them. They are abou to pull the rug right out from under us with this digital bank system which will probably slice the value of the dollar to worthless and bring in their digital system. Or we can do nothing. Or maybe you have another suggestion? We really could start talking about what we CAN do while we've got a smidgen of a chance to do anything. Because once their digital system comes in, we're toast. We won't have much chance to do anything then, we'd have absolutely no leverage. While this dollar is still active, we need to put a spanner in their works. Each of us needs to actively be involved in getting at least one other to buddy with us. Otherwise, go suck your thumb.
HaHa - well said Vin!
If we stop paying taxes we'll get fined and pay more. I don't know how to stop it. The Israeli power over our country, the US, is clearly massive. It's absurd to me that at least a so-called two state solution wasn't created from the beginning, though I think creaating Israel itself on Palestinian land was pure theft. If you're asking why I wouldn't want the Israeli Zionists to come here, it's because the place is already swarming with fascists. We need fewer, not more.
The entire game they play is to make you think there is any difference between countries. All of them are in it together. Maybe a handful of small countries that show disgruntlement with that, but it's all about global control. All the resources are in their favor - the media, finance, police, military, sycophants. The works except for one thing - our power to choose to do something completely different and out-of-the-box that isn't in their contingency. Throw them off their perch a bit. Then we go with the next venture, and then the next. I think we could pull it off because the banksters wouldn't want it to come out about the way money is created, that interest is never put into the economy or in other words, the money supply. It virtually does not exist to be able for it to be paid.
But it would need to be a mass collective effort and for that we would need to communicate with and educate large numbers of people, like Fox does, but truthful.
What we need is to become the beacons. They are no models for our children so we have to model the new human. You simply dismissed that idea of stop paying taxes because you fear them. Fear is their weapon. Fear takes us out of our powerful frequency spectrum. We need to talk about how we stop paying taxes. We need to coordinate all our moves. Because you can bet they are and they are chomping at our heels. But they're nudging us, forcing us even, to stand up to them and to show them they are nothing but dangerous global hoodlums. We can work out how we stop paying taxes but the easiest thing to do is to stop paying interest to banks. Anyone can do that, it is a matter of choice. Do it with a buddy, pledge to do it openly on a database made for that purpose. Psychopaths hide behind censorship. They cannot thrive in transparency. They know everything we say and do anyway with their surveillance, why not go the whole hog and make ourselves public? Living in the open is the wrong "ph" for psychopaths. Yes, it's difficult, but so is living in this asylum. Do you want to disarm them? If so let's all start talking about coordinating it.
I think the biggest hold they have over us is disinformation via Fox. Somehow we need to reach the people. The Repuke gameplay has been brilliant. The Democrats are mostly bought, and asleep at the wheel. The pukes probably have a lot more money because that is all they care about, but the left should have enough to start some competing media. Nothing too hard to follow and must be entertaining lol. To be honest, I'm afraid we're screwed. We need an FDR or JFK or MLK. They're hard to find.
Most people have their taxes withheld from each paycheck. No option.
Yes but they shouldn't fill out tax forms. The pay they can't choose but they can choose to not fill out their insufferable and time-wasting forms. They know everything about us anyway, why fill out anything. But one thing we can do if we have bank loans is stop paying the interest. Just the interest for starters. And give away 50% of that saving to someone you know and can talk to. Not some big conglomerate or charity. Someone you can see is progressing from your weekly sharing of the money you save for not paying interest on your bank loans. This also will mean the community will have support for you because the savings are being shared with them. It is a win/win, but you've got to have some cojones and not be scared of what will happen. Because we really don't know that. And with paying loans, that is leverage that can be used.
No thanks.
Why not Francis/Clare?
Denise I vote that we transfer them to Noo Yawk, then cut that shithole loose into the Atlantic.
Tell you what, gyp dear. Even though it's my native city, I'd support this, but only if we require them to PAY -- sell them Noo Yawk for big shekels, maybe enough to cover the national debt -- or at minimum, reimburse us all the billions in "aid" and munitions we've forked over. Money makes the vorld go 'round.
Well yes Vin. I always feel a bit guilty for universally dissing NY because of the non-Zios there. The Puerto Ricans are super-nice people in my experience, along with others.
I guess we’ll have to relocate them before we set off an underground nuke that sends NY spinning into the sea. Boom.
Puerto Ricans are indeed very nice folks in general, gyp. In grad school I lived in a bldg. approximately a third each Anglo, African-American and Hispanic-American , mostly PR. We were a peaceful community; got along great. Because no bloody Zionists to piss off the rest of us.
Yes that's a good one. I like that for criminals in a sovereign-based society. My image is that we find an island that is far away from everything. We take a load of them, naked, with nothing just holding a sandwich for their next meal, and drop them off at this island to enjoy each other's company and find their own survival needs for the rest of their lives. Such a satisfying image it leaves in my mind. It reminds me of a picture of two squabbling children both fitting into the one t-shirt till they sort out their differences.
Excellent idea! Thank you for posting it!
The key comment today, Vin, in Caitlin's writing and Tim's reading is........................
the last few words, the shame of it all and the disgrace that will always be there for all to see..........
"...........and the western empire’s support for it."
There's the greatest crime of all. Yes, Israel's butchery is shameful enough, but the total disregard for the happenings in Palestine by the Western governments, as well as the toothless United Nations and the associated shameful media coverage is, in my mind, the crime to beat all crimes in my lifetime and that includes WWII. Since that time as we have seen the well promoted ‘holocaust’ and 'antiSemitic' marketing plans which has been promoted and played out by the so-called "victims" of WWII. (big celebrations recently in Auswitzch, you might remember). Has that had any effect on the Israeli mentality in the support of those crimes every day now, every day in some way since WWII. Clearly NO. (My apologies to the few exceptions, the decent Jewish people, but one only has to view the responses to pro-Palestine actions by Jewish people, those same people attacking supporters on University grounds to know that the support demonstrated in most countries is for Israel, not for Palestine. Well organised, well funded. Government supported as well in the main and in the USA, assisted by masked police called ICE. (aka US Gestapo)
Not represented that way of course, in the media.
Yes, we all know that the current Gaza ethnic cleansing is not being carried out by all the Jewish citizens in other countries, but nor has that same group been active enough in their own countries to pressure governments to change their corrupted attitudes. They have often encouraged the use of US and other citizens to become IDF members, to leave the country in which they are regarded as loyal citizens and fight unarmed civilians, to rape, bomb and starve people in another country, returning home as local heroes. In the USA, still citizens of the USA though......no problem there in any way at all. Never gets a mention, because under the current regime in power in America, this is not an un-American activity deserving of investigation.
What absolute hypocrisy one would think! But is it?
Of course not, That same country, the USA, America.....call it what you will......supports the actions of killing, rape, starvation, child murder, delivering billions of dollars worth of weaponry to what they obviously regard as the new master race (previously Germany's nom de plume), with 86% of their elected politicians funded by local American domiciled Israeli puppets, the Musks and the Adelson's to name just two. All quite legal.
That is US-style legal.
The USA, now on the downhill slide.
Well said. Especially "US-style legal". a new genre of jurisprudence.
You don't have to think it will sink us. Please think that we'll get out of it. I'd love this to happen - that Americans got so sick and tired of banksters that the people that wanted to, got together with at least one other that wanted to, and together they stop paying interest on any of their loans including mortgages. Ignore all correspondence from the bank or answer if you wish but there's no need to because believing in their authority is merely that - a belief. They've already cheated us of so much, they don't need an explanation. Share the savings you make by donating it to someone you know who could use something extra. Only to people you can talk to not to any conglomerate that calls itself a charity. And definitely don't claim taxes on it. Just joking for that one. Try to get the buddy you get, for him to get one more buddy, and that buddy gets one more, etc, so we all make a sort of chain. But we reap the benefits for once! Keep paying the principle as you can hold that as ransom if the banker's want to play hardball. This is one good way to sock it to the banksters. Can you imagine what that would do? It takes a long time to carry out evictions so don't let that stop you. Write to the bank if you wish informing them that you know about the strawman birth certificate trust accounts. And I bet you'll never hear from them again. Of course those who don't have the cojones do nothing but there must be some who would do this. They're not going to stop till we give them a schlapping.
What you seem to forget/ignore, C33, is all the non-Jewish people that support Israel and Zionism - all the Christian Zionists (in western countries), so many Hindus (in India), all the atheists that support Israel (for one reason or the other), all the 'BIG MONEY' that does not care about religion or ideologies, but instead supports Israel (and Zionism) because Israel plays a significant role in the process of THEIR wealth creation.
Hence, for everyone that seems to want to blame 'Jews' alone for this (instead of blaming Israeli culture and the ideology of Zionism), is relying more on EMOTIONS than rational deliberation.
BTW, I am not Jewish and neither am I religious (I'm an atheist).
I am not forgetting or ignoring the people you mention, Chang. Not at all. Just trying to hit my understanding of the main players as part of a hopefully relevant response while trying to keep my comment down to a reasonable size.
I could have mentioned all the English born supporters in the City of London environment, (all denominations), New York as well ...thick on the ground, Rothchilds staff and their followers of all religious denominations. And there are many.
Money has always been the greatest motivator, whatever one's religious beliefs.
Almost every attendee at Davos in Switzerland, every second corrupted politician in Australia and the UK and the USA and France, the very malleable Saudi "Royal" (whatever that means) hierarchy, the UAE and so many well known supporters throughout S E Asia. They have all survived and progressed while others have perished.
They have all been in this game a long time. In fact well before WWII (the UK, Balfour and his clan) and have been prepared to sacrifice principles for profit. Perhaps a good time to stop on the identification trail as one comment of length is enough for one day.
AND BTW, to copy your final words...."I am not Jewish and neither am I religious (I'm an atheist)", ....ditto, but I do love justice, truth, human equality and rational principles based on REASON. Reasons alone to dislike Western governments, American military expansion, (the reason for all the world's problems) and finally, the totally corrupt media.
I also appreciate energetic writers, of which we have many. You being one.
Going back to the role of temples and priests in shaping very early societies from more matriarchal toward more patriarchal, I say lock up all the priests, ministers rabbis, imams, etc. and otherwise mute the influence of their fabulist allegories, which somehow modern humans are able to recognize in say Greek mythology, but not in Biblical and other "holy book" allegories fueling the dogma of major religions (e.g., resurrections from the dead).
That won't really help Vin. Religion has (for much of history) been used as just ONE of multiple pathways to POWER and wealth accumulation.
In the past, religions played a more prominent role in the pursuit of wealth/power/control/etc. These days, it is economic systems (like capitalism) that are the prominent pathways to wealth and power.
So what many of the people at the top of such systems do in recent history is to HIJACK the 'old pathways' used by religions (here I'm talking about the complete industry of religions - for ALL religions on earth).
Hence, getting rid of 'religious figureheads' (many of which I consider to be puppets in the grand scheme of someone else's game), may not avail us the results/outcomes we are hoping for.
It would not likely help now, of course. I'm talking punishment for past transgressions; I'm in a nasty fucking mood today after being on the phone with tech "help". There's a cultural anthropological line of thinking that prehistoric human societies might well have remained matriarchal had it not been for that temple/priestly influence; that was my initial reference. The rest of it is my residue as a former brain-wasted Cathodic, the scars always exerting their impact, all these years later.
I don't think the temple/priestly/religious-institutions were the CAUSE of a society moving away from matriarchy to patriarchy. I think the opposite - that because societies were transforming awary from matriarchy (for a variety of reasons - one has to dig into historical and anthropological fields here and the many theories for this), the NEED for 'religious institutions' and 'religious indoctrination' arose to serve the purposes of society (and those of TPTB of those ancient societies).
I often wonder about the "state" designation for Israel, and even when they say "two state" solution. What I mean is, and I could be ignorant of how this works, but doesn't a state have to be a part of a country? Or is a state equivalent to a country? I can see how Israel is functioning like it is a "country" but it has always been mentioned as a "state". Is Israel the 51st "state" of the US?
I also wonder how such a "state" can have so much power equivalent to that of a country.
Why don't they just call Israel a country? It is very confusing. Is that the point? Israel acts like a country but is constantly being called a "state".
Here in the US, if one state feels threatened by another state, does that state have the right to go to war against the other state? Of course not. I'm just wondering about this designation. What are your thoughts?
A state is a county. America is made up of fifty countries. These United States(Countries) of America. Note it is 'these' not 'the'. That is something we the people have forgotten and that all the power is with us. All over the world the power is with the people. Also a Nation is not a state or county, it is people. A Nation is made up of people not lines on a map or the dirt in a given area.
A state could declare war on another state if they chose.
Hi Cody
Does this include DC as well?
If so, in the name of all good Michiganians, I DECLARE WAR.
DC is not a state. The District of Columbia is a federal district which is lower than a state.
I declare war regardless!
Ah you've picked up a few hints from the IDF!
A country is a set of geographical boundaries. It is physical.
A nation is a group of people with a shared set of principles and attitudes.
A state is an organizational system that administers the laws that govern a nation of people who live within the boundaries of a particular country.
When the 13 former British colonies in America formed a union, they relinquished their separateness. The Civil War contested that idea but the Union forces won the war (Personally, I think it would have been better all around to allow the southern states to secede, but nobody asked me).
The power is not with the people, it is with the people who hold the power. Try not to forget that. Or risk spending the rest of your life in a high-security super-prison.
And for a state within the US to make war against another state is beyond absurd.
Whatever it is you are huffing, please stop before your brain and liver are damaged beyond repair.
Israhell will never wash the blood of Innocence off its horrible hands, but Karma will someday very soon, make THEM bleed as well !!!!
1) I assume that you mean "It has NO right to exist" and that you are not making a statement about yourself.
2) Actually, Israel is a state. Sure, it is also an atrocity perpetrated by maniacs, but that does not stop in from being a state. Many states are atrocities perpetrated by maniacs. In fact, one could argue that most of them are . . .
Why as a member of the biosphere, who understands its dynamic as well as they can be understood, and respects the principles of its dynamics, would I be silly enough to make such a statement about myself. That part of your statement is nonsensical on its face, whereas your #2 about other states is quite true. So what? I'd argue that, based on performance, none of them have aright to exist given their relationship to both that Biosphere (anti-Biosphere philosophies of continual economic growth) or contrary to the common welfare of the majority of their citizens. But I'd also argue that Israel is currently the most blatant exemplar of the genre . . . (ellipses notwithstanding).
Well, you did write: " I has NO right to exist."
I think that would sound to most people like a statement about yourself, which is why I assumed that it was a typo . . .
Look at Herzl’s Judenstaat which didn’t even consider the people in Palestine but for a mention of “barbarism”. That’s a Jewish state conception long before Balfour. Look at Arthur Ruppin’s beliefs which were that of Hans Gunther and national socialist—he was a racial theorist, basically eugenicist and Jewish supremacist—that is, for European Jews, supremacist jews within Jews! And he was a big figure in Zionism before WWII. Look at the Histadrut which excluded Arab labor long before 1948. There was never an intention to blend in and join society there but rather to make a Jewish state and that demanded a very large majority and thus expulsion of Palestinians and theft of 80% or so of what became Israel.
I have a hard time wrapping my brain around the "racist" part of this whole thing. Jews look like white folks to me. I mean seriously, they sure are not brown. Then again, there are converted Jews from all ethnic groups so, I am a bit confused about the racism thing. What makes Jews different from white folks? Especially European Jews.
If it's about some DNA that only Jews have other than other ethnic groups, then wouldn't it be more of eugenics than racism?
I have read something about it being not allowed to take a DNA test. But seriously, if folks took a DNA test would there be some type of indicator that only ethnic Jews have? And with all the mixing that humans have done over time, couldn't that indicator be found in a lot of people?
When this thing happened after the Hamas attack, and these folks were all in the news, to be honest, it looked like brother against brother. I saw blonde haired blue-eyed Palestinians, and dark eyes, dark hair, Israelis. So what's the difference? In fact a lot of Arabs converted to Judaism and are currently in Palestine and all over the Middle East.
Now, I do see Zionism as a unifier. Anyone can be a Zionist.
What's the difference between a Jew and a Hebrew?
I was of the mind that Judaism was the religion of the Hebrews. Am I wrong here?
When I listen to Zionist Rabbis, their position is that anyone, and I mean absolutely anyone, who is not a Jew (follower of the Torah/Talmud) should be annihilated so Mashiach can return.
It seems all convoluted to me, especially since Herzl was purported to be an atheist.
The racial component of Zionism is truly mythological nonsense and as ill-defined as a Nazi Aryan. Feel free to read my post Fraud of Israel for a more thorough treatment so I don’t just repeat that here and feel free to comment there, too. Thanks
Will do, thanks for the reference.
That Jews are not a race is the biggest secrete in the world. It is just that the Jews wish it so much and it would be so practical for them.
They’ve done a great job of beating us over the head with their so called supremacy as a chosen race of peoples. It’s just nuts.
It's simple really, Nana. It's all about 'ideologies of supremacy' - a way of justifying why you are better than others - why you should receive special treatment over others - why you deserve more in life than others - why you're entitled to more - why the rules for others don't apply to you - why you are above the limitations of morals placed on others.
Take ANY billionaire or oligarch and you will discover that they think in this way. Take ANY supremacist ideology (Aryan supremacy, Jewish supremacy, Hindu supremacy, White supremacy, etc.), and it's the same 'rationalizing' logic being used by ALL these groups.
These "eugenicists" AKA fake fucking KNOW-NOTHING biologists, who in the absence of any significant molecular knowledge back then, demonstrated some of the grandest hubris in history with their horrendous theories that were/ that are essentially gigantic piles of merda proffered as "science". As a biologist, my anger at these simpletons and their unsupported rubbish enrages me sufficiently that I'd fucking beat their asses on the spot were they still alive and I encountered one of their sorry forms in front of me. I'd beat them so hard they'd wish they'd never have grown cerebral interneurons with which to formulate any ideas whatsoever. A grander travesty and blight on human ideation is hard to find for me personally.
I went to Israel a number of years ago, before it had become clear to me what it was. At the time I absorbed these stories about socialist utopia Israel: Hagganah vs Irgun, Labor vs Likud, secular vs religious etc etc. But I would see all these futurist socialist buildings projects/in disrepair and ruined, a bit like the lost future you see in ex-Yugoslavia. That version of Israel had clearly fallen by the wayside.
And I would notice that even progressive "One State" Israelis insist that they should be allowed to live in "Judea and Samaria" against the will of Palestinians. They couldn't let go of the expansionist impulse riding roughshod over the people they claimed to want peace with.
I noticed how settlements were deliberately planned growing out of Jerusalem to ring and isolate Palestinian villages and incorporate the land into Israel and Jewish control. I'd see maps without any label on Gaza, and no border around "Judea and Samaria". It became clear that the framing I'd grown up with, that this was a religious-based "Israelis Palestinian conflict" with a "Peace ProcessTM" was a lie. All I saw was one wealthy and powerful people with imperial backing who came to the land of another and utterly steamrolled them into ghettos and refugee camps without even basic rights, stealing their land and resources. A one-sided conflict.
From what we've seen now, it's no surprise liberal zionism fell by the wayside, it's contradictions were too great to survive. An egalitarian socialist experiment within a racist colonial apartheid state created by ethnic cleansing and terror. And now we can see the unbroken line from the very beginning, the promise to create a Jewish-only sovereign state over all of Palestine, without Palestinians in it, by any means necessary. It's never been anything else, and Israel has so clearly defined itself, so deeply inked itself into the judgements of history that no good faith person can argue that it is anything other than an ongoing act of aggression, ethnic cleansing, apartheid, and genocide against native Palestinians and Arabs by a European-founded fanatic militarized settler colony and its psychopathic imperial patrons, and an act of violence and sadism against humanity itself.
👏👏 Well said Ian Brown!
Well said! I've long maintained that there's no such thing as a left-wing (or progressive) Israeli. Anyone who embraces the racist, supremacist, apartheid ideology called Zionism can never be considered to be left wing.
"The apple tree will only produce apples, and the genocide tree will only produce genocide."
Well said. I'm growing impatient with those who keep trying to blame only Netanyahu or Biden or Trump or "Hamas" for this genocide. Recent polls show that the vast majority of Israelis want to commit genocide and starve Palestinians. If Israel was an apple tree, it would be the wormiest, most sour, rotten to the core crab apple tree. Chop it down! #FreePalestine
Not to mention, if you just chop down the tree and don't remove the roots, it will just grow back. In other words, the so-called leaders are in the forefront, but I always say, it's the order-followers who carry out the mission of their commanders. They are the root of the tree. Getting rid of Netanyahu, Biden, Trump or Hamas will not cure the ill that is rampant in society. It will only be like chopping off a few branches. The roots will continue to grow and eventually it will produce the same fruit.
>>"but I always say, it's the order-followers who carry out the mission of their commanders. They are the root of the tree."
I would say the OPPOSITE. Take the example of Nazi Germany. No matter how many Nazis died, as long as the HEAD (root) - that is Hitler and his top level people - existed, they could ALWAYS recruit more followers to do their bidding.
It's the same logic/dynamics as in CULTS. Remove the cult 'leader/figurehead' AND give the cult followers an opportunity to de-cult, de-program, and de-indoctrinate themselves, and soon enough many of them realize things that would have seemed impossible for them to realize earlier.
What's different, IMHO, between ordinary CULTS (based mostly on leaders) and Ideologies (with prominent proponents of the ideology being populists/demagogues) is that these 'ideologies' have been normalized over generations (if not centuries) to be acceptable. The sickness of the ideology/system has spread through the roots, through other methods of pollination, etc. far and wide.
>>"Getting rid of Netanyahu, Biden, Trump or Hamas will not cure the ill that is rampant in society."
Yes, SYSTEMS need to CHANGE for real, lasting change. It's like the old adage about 'doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results'. If you put homo-sapiens in systems that produce the same results over-and-over-again, then it doesn't surprise me in the least that we get the kind of world we are currently living in.
Israel creates hell on earth.
"That’s the usa, the state. Not just trump. Not just ICE/Homeland Security. Not just “far right elements within the usa government”. The usa itself. Because everything we are seeing the usa do is the result of everything the usa is as a state.
Everything the usa is doing is the result of everything it has always been. As soon as the west decided to drop a settler-colonialist state on top of a pre-existing civilization wherein the new immigrants would receive preferential treatment over the indigenous inhabitants who were already living there, it became inevitable that the usa would wind up in the condition it’s in today.
Because there was no way to uphold that status quo without mass displacement and nonstop tyranny, violence and abuse. There was no way to set up a tiered society where one tier is placed above the other without indoctrinating the public to accept that apartheid system by systematically dehumanizing the members of the disempowered group."
It's simple, the nature of Empire.
But is it as simple really as "the nature of Empire"? Has Empire always behaved this way in history? And if so, what does it foretell about the future of human societs and civilizations (assuming that it is quite likely that there will always be one or more Empires vying for domination and control over an ever-dwindling availability of resources)?
When human beings decided that being in a local clan was restrictive, or when they ran out of resources, say the nomadic ones, or maybe all of the above, it just sucks, Empires suck, and their managers suck as well. It’s just the nature of Empire. And as long as humans are covetous, greedy, and power hungry, it will continue to happen.
Empires are macrocosms of the microcosm. We can see this happen in very intimate situations that can balloon into national to international situations. There’s also the need for cult-like indoctrination so as to get the support of the masses.
Have you ever seen the movie, “The Gods Must Be Crazy”? If not check it out. It shows what happens when the idea of scarcity comes into being and how human beings respond to it.
I think that scarcity is an inherent myth propped up by those who want to justify “stealing” from another. Human beings are quite ingenious. The idea that humans “need” more than what is available to them has been used to justify taking from another. Globalism is just another fancy word for Empire Building, creating the idea that what is over there somewhere is what we need instead of utilizing the abundance that is around us. The Western world has propped itself on top of the “others’ resources instead of being content and creative with what’s available here. I could go on, but I don’t want to make this too long.
>>"And as long as humans are covetous, greedy, and power hungry, it will continue to happen."
That is something I think about that could be an interesting debate to be had ->
"Is it intrinsic human nature that has a greater influence on how we behave" OR "is it the SYSTEMS that humans are bound to (often without choice) and within which humans are compelled to find strategies for survival that have a greater influence on human behavior"?
My take is that human nature is exceptionally malleable, and we are a product of many factors other than just 'genetics and DNA'. I'm not suggesting the extremes of Steven Pinker's "The Blank Slate" or that of B. F. Skinner's "Theory of Behaviorism" either.
Here's the question that I think really needs to be discussed/addressed (by humanity) -> Could we DESIGN BETTER SYSTEMS to produce better behaviors and outcomes (that benefit all humans, other species, and the planet)?
Or have humans not yet reached the state of evolutionary maturity in which they would be capable of designing such systems and following through on the implementations of such?
This may sound Idealist, but I think we need systems that honor and respect nature with a dose of “do no harm” in the mix. Even when the so-called primitive natives hunt animals for food, they thank the animal for giving its life for their sustenance. The industrial world does not honor nature and does a lot of harm, however, everyone in it is addicted to the convenience it provides. Therefore, unless we get 40 days and 40 nights that drown out all the inhabitants, including Noah, we are on a runaway locomotive that will eventually be derailed. We probably won’t live to see it, but I predict that is the trajectory. Humans will be forced to go back to nature and give thanks 🙏🏾🙏🏾
>>"Set up a status quo of dehumanizing a group of people and manufacturing consent for violence and abuse against them, and you will inevitably wind up with a far right apartheid state which is committing genocide, as surely as dropping a stone off a building will result in a stone falling to the ground."
Caitlin - for a minute, I was wondering if you were talking about Israel or the U.S. (based on its history)...they have so much in common, share so much in common (besides the system of capitalism, racism, police and surveillance states, operations that terrorize people all over the world, and so much more).
Somedays, it's hard for me to draw a line as to where Israel ends and the U.S. begins...(of course I know that Israel is a crucial part of the much larger U.S. Empire - hence taking down Israel will necessitate serious implications and consequences for America too - since I really don't know if Israel can be morphed into something better (hopefully Palestine) without it having a serious impact on the existing state of the U.S. - and as a result, the rest of the world...)
Like father, like son...
Two wings of the same bird.
Who's In Charge, Israel or the USA? Or Is It Just Two Wings of the Same Dragon
https://topicsfromatoz.substack.com/p/whos-in-charge-israel-or-the-usa
I think of it more as the 'bastard offspring' of psychopathic and sociopathic parents. Parents that have tolerated (and even enouraged and sometimes trained) and indulged their child into getting away with whatever it wants. A spoiled, bratty, selfish child that has never grown out of its adolscent immaturity, that has never needed to work out for itself 'right from wrong' - and who has now become a monster that the parents are not able to bring to heel anymore...
Then again, I am no family/child psychologist/psychotherapist - so who knows?
Well, I don't think you are too far off the mark. I am a Psychologist and I would say that if we use the construct you presented, the parents would be all nations, especially the US and Israel's European allies have allowed its child, Israel to get away with absolute murder, literally. That the systems that were designed to keep other countries in check would be equated to the penal system have also "looked" the other way. And I would strongly concur, that the Parents have been terrible examples so they to are responsible for the role model they gave to their "belligerent child". I would also add, that when a child has no one to hold them to heel, they may definitely act out, but much of that is coming from feeling insecure, unprotected and in some instance violated because those who were entrusted to keep them safe, did not.. When I think of it this way.. it becomes clear that Israel is a failed State filled with fear, uncertainty and insecurity because it was never given proper guidance or held to account when it strayed from the path.
I would add to that by saying that it should NEVER have been born in the first place. Weren’t there birth control and contraceptions in the 1940s? Did they simply forget to use protection? 😄 Or maybe they hoped that their ‘bastard child’ would be of use to them sometime in the future and would do/carry-out whatever ‘dirty work’ its parents needed to get done?
LOL, it was born out of the “rapture of love” you know that moment when you were supposed to “pull out” but it was so good you didn’t? Or how about the prophylactic burst, or the rhythm method days got mixed up, or the “oh well we’ll just deal with it nine months from now” or how about, “leave me alone I don’t want to do this right now! or…. “hey, we are superior and we need many little nutcases like us so let’s make man.” Whatever the case may be, somebody should have said, um, I don’t think this is a good idea so let’s build bridges instead of concentration camps.
Every word you write, Caitlin, is the straight-on, unvarnished truth. This is probably a truism, but somehow (inevitably?) this Colonial Zionist mentality has its roots in the 3,000-year history of arrogance of a people who dare term themselves "God's chosen people." This arrogance -- this false pride -- simply must be torn down, limb by limb by brain malfunction, until the world corrects itself.
The Irony of being "God's Chosen People". The fact that that is acceptable by other folks who claim to be of the Abrahamic faith is mystifying to me.
That very statement infers a superiority over all of the other people God created. Was Adam and Eve "God's Chosen People"? LOL. I'm just saying. Judaism is an invented religion with claims that are similarly invented.
I always say, considering what the so-called Jews have done, if they are chosen by God, what kind of God chose them?
We have the propensity in society to look at the parents of a child when it participates in deviant, non-social and detrimental behavior. Should we not question the "God" that chose them based on their behavior? Makes me wonder.
"God" tends to be a primitive concept.
Well stated, well "wondered," Nana!
Yes, I am still wondering, Robert.
>>"Judaism is an invented religion..."
All religions are invented (by humans). One could even say that 'God' has been invented by humans.
>>"I always say, considering what the so-called Jews have done, if they are chosen by God, what kind of God chose them?"
That - to me - is just another BULLSHIT narrative claimed by the followers of a particular faith, just as most (if not all) religions have their own 'narratives' to justify their beliefs.
I'm an atheist, and I look at things from a different perspective that what a religious/spiritual person might look from. All religions, in fact ALL belief systems, usually have narratives that help its followers adhere to the dictates of those belief systems. In that respect, I don't consider Judaism to be that different from other religions (monotheistic or polytheistic).
More like Satan's chosen people, am I right? Oh and they aren't people, they're creatures. Things. Evil.
Don't dehumanize the genociders.
For humanity to stop committing these atrocities, we have to reconcile with the fact that our species committed them.
Not some vague 'demonic things'. People
Humans
Us.
We can do better, we must do better.
That means admitting we did this.
Get outta here lady. “Don't dehumanize the genociders”. Sure, I'll just sing kumbaya with them till they find their humanity and empathy 🙄 There is no coming back from this. There is no humanity in them. They are nothing but monsters. Not human. You can't dehumanize what isn't human.
Not what I said, but I guess you're not willing to accept that people are capable of killing people yet. We have to accept that can happen if we want to understand how to stop it.
Are you retarded? I know exactly what you said and what you meant and I have a problem with your first sentence because you're arguing about semantics when people are being butchered by fucking zionazi DEMONS in human flesh. I know they're fucking human but they're not human where it counts. They are physically human. Inside they are aberrations, and their humanity is non-existent. Do you understand what I mean now??
God I fucking hate people like you. Go fuck off and troll someone else with your BS stupidity.
How does one describe a society where 82% of the population (according to a recent poll) want complete annihilation or removal of its indigenous population?! Only 9% agree on some sort of autonomy or rights. Where are those righteous 9% with their placards protesting the genocide being committed by their beloved state? I think Max Blumenthal describes the Zionist state pretty accurately: a state with “satanic” people. When it comes to comparing the Zionist state with the 3rd Reich, Chas Freeman puts it very succinctly: the same objectives, strategy, and implementations. In other words, they are very similar, and they’ve learned from their ex-captors. And he goes on to say, the only difference is “ovens”; and if they could get away with it and introduce it in this century, they would.
The ovens are the bombs dropped incinerating Palestinians into non existence. Not a shred remains to identify the murdered. 7 nuclear bombs worth of bombs. It's a holocaust.
“ How does one describe a society where 82% of the population (according to a recent poll) want complete annihilation?”
Makes me wonder what the percentages would have been had there been such a survey taken in
America, back then, especially in the 18th and 19th centuries. Or, for that matter, today.
Nailed it:
“ What we are seeing in Gaza today was baked into the state of Israel ever since its inception.”
For 77 years the world has yawned as Israel has committed crimes against humanity against the Palestinian people. If the Nakba had upset governments they would have done something about Israel then, but when they didn’t they told us that this was the plan all along. Kill and cleanse Palestinians until the only people left in what was once Palestine were Israelis. Not people indigenous to the area, but from Jews from the areas around Ukraine. The Palestinians are the true semites.
Thank you. I agree with your conclusions.
"the modern state of Israel, and the western empire’s support for it." Scratch that!
It should read, >the western empire’s foremost outpost>
"Everything Israel is doing is the result of everything it has always been."
Exactly. Israel didn't start off okay and then go off the rails. It was evil from its inception.
JUDAISM IN A NUTSHELL
Tired of maintaining so many priests of so many deities, in the second half of the 14th century, Pharaoh Amenhotep IV (1375-1336 BC) and his wife Nefertiti had the idea of a single god, Aton, the sun, and after five years of reign, Amenhotep took the name Akhenaton and moved the capital from Thebes to Akhetaton (now Amarna) which he founded. After his death, in circumstances never explained, the priests reintroduced polytheism. His son, Tutankhamun, (1341-1323 BC) attempted to restore monotheism but died very young.
The Jews descend from the Khabiri revolutionaries who lived in a land west of the Jordan that was part of the Egyptian empire. In the second half of the 8th century BC, the Jewish tribes were in conflict with each other and Isaiah (765-700 BC) had the idea of resuming the cult of the one god, Yahweh, and convinced the tribal leaders that they had to be in solidarity with each other to form that people chosen by God and dominate all other peoples.
And when in 601 BC the king of Judah Jehoiakim rebelled against Babylon and was defeated, another prophet explained that it had depended on the will of God to test his people. Then, in the 6th century BC, the writing of the history of the Jews began in Judea on the basis of previous oral and written traditions, in particular the so-called Deuteronomist source of the 7th century BC, from Abraham to Moses. So many stories between pieces of reality and propaganda, while the fact remains that Jewish researchers, after having excavated for years, have not found any temple in Jerusalem but only bivouacs of desert nomads.
Interesting analysis of Judaism in a nutshell. Monotheism, in my estimation, is about power and control, and not very natural to the human psyche.
Monotheism is no different from solitary confinement. All it does is teach people to be obedient, for fear of punishment from an all-knowing vague entity.
There is no 2 state solution. there I only 1 state solution and that is a free, sovereign Palestinian state. the israelis have to be moved out of the Middle East.
By force. By death. I don't care. They can go to Hell.
Why did they put a bunch of European, Russians, etc. in the Middle East anyway? They could have given them a place in Germany.
There are, at least, three main forces working together here. Power, Profits, and Prophets. The ‘what’ can be explained to a large extent by the first two; the ‘where’ is the result of the third element. That, of course, being the most irrational of all.