A recent example of this I experienced was when I posted on Substack that I wouldn't vote for either of the purple parties (Republicans or Democrats or their equivalents in other countries) who support genocide. I was told that I was letting the perfect be the enemy of the good.
I don't see anything good about a party that enables genocide with our tax dollars, and I can't get past that. I refuse to.
I’ve received the same ridiculous smug response. Only there’s no amount of good that can justify genocide and child murder. Opposing those horrors does not make anyone perfect, just human.
Exactly, Claire. It drastically diminishes the value of the lives of Palestinians. It's like comparing genocide to a parking violation. There is nothing good about funding and arming Israel as it commits genocide against the Palestinians.
"There’s no amount of good that can justify genocide and child murder"....... You could say that 16,000 times, but everyday other children get slaughtered... ....
Stay strong - argue with two dear friends this weekend when saying voting for R or D was a vote to continued genocide. They had no solid response - other than but ‘the pets’ ‘women’s choice’ ‘immigration’ - my response “those are distractions” they both went silent.
My best friend is now careful never to use the word "perfect" around me because I "bit her head off" for using a paraphrase of that stupid slogan I am so tired of. Like opposing a candidate and party that is 10% less evil than the other unimaginably evil one is irresponsibly demanding perfection? No--Harris and the D's are not "good." They are not a little short of perfection. In any case, as Caitlin says, the election is irrelevant. Policy won't change, whoever wins. Well, possibly domestic policy, a little. Like we'll get moves in the right direction on climate and the environment that are 5% of what we need, whereas Trump will make it 10% worse.
I have disdain for both parties. However, the Democrats have done nothing for the environment, nothing. They are just as bad as the Republicans. None of them truly care for us or the environment. Ecosystems are crashing all over the world, the food we eat is becoming less nutritious every year. We’re more sick than our parents and grandparents. Dems destroy the environment for profit just as bad as the other group. They “pretend” to care more about the climate/ environment because that is the role they’re playing. Republicans pretend to care about the economy and small business. That’s the role they’re told to play. It’s all smoke and mirrors to keep us divided and mad at each other. We fight and argue with one another, while they gain more power and control over all of us, and continue to ravage the planet of its last resources.
Precisely they want to keep us divided as a distraction to what the despicable deep state is doing to the western people. It is terrible but on the positive side more and more people are recognising what is happening and whilst the deep state try to censor us they know that it is all going to come to an end - the public will unite
I hope so. I feel so many people still haven’t woken up. I’m friends with them. They don’t get it. My husband still believes in voting. He thinks Trump and RFK will save us. Oy vey. WE MUST SAVE US. Don’t wait for someone to save you. Wake up and save yourself, this will save all of us. We need to unite together. All of us little people. The 99%. That’s how we will win. I don’t know how to get more people to wake up.
I have come to the conclusion a Trump victory might force the Democrats to impeach Trump for four years voting against everything the Republicant's want. Voting Jill Stein, there is no lesser Genocide. I will think of you as I vote for Jill.
It is so insidious, because it keeps you trapped in the same room that has closing walls decade after decade like the trash compactor in Star Wars. It normalizes your helplessness in believing that you must participate in a corrupt electoral system, and accepting breadcrumbs is your only realistic path forward. Meanwhile, decade after decade, the immoral exploitation of human beings and the planet in the name of "greed is good" gets worse, and here we are on the verge of nuclear annihilation by these same "lesser of two evils" sociopathic imbeciles running our lives.
Hello jamenta, Remember we talked about the "lesser of two evils" being still evil... I am glad that I don't have to make that awful choice! On second thoughts the vassal state citizens too ought to have the vote as we are all subjects of empire.
Being part of a vassal state, Indu, but faced with a stiff fine if you do not vote, that is a slightly greater penalty than having the choice to opt out. We have no choice.
If you think that your two misfits are about the worst that ca be produced to carry on with the totally supported Israeli genocide, the ongoing grovelling to Adolph #2 in Israel, humiliating to say the least, the management of your proxy forces in NATO as they are driven to kill Russians, day after day, you have many more in the West that are their equal, mirror images of all that is so reprehensible in your two.
So many of these candidates have just completed elections....Germany, France, UK and soon Australia and they have the identical philosophies as you are faced with. So it's a universal illness where the people do not have a single chance to amend the current world political climate
Now that is the greatest danger of all. Like goes on and nothing changes.
Leverage is only useful when you have something that the other person wants. "We'll hold their feet to the fire after the election!" is vague - what does any of that mean? Worse, after the election you no longer have anything that the candidate wants.
We must use the election as a "tool" and we shouldn't hold their feet over the fire AFTER the election. We need to use our "tools" before. And keep on using your tools of defiance over and over again like a hammer to build a better society.
Yes, there’s definitely no good in either party, they only serve their rich masters. Voting for a democrat or republican is an indisputably immoral act.
A variant of this argument is when people say, "but abortion; but guns; but racism; but transgender; but inequality; but free speech, but immigration; but voting rights; but health care, but global warming; but Covid; but . . ." The fact is that those are all issues over which presidents have little decisive power. They must be decided through the broad political process in which presidents are defeated or stymied far more often than they get their way. It's only on issues of war and peace, national security and foreign policy, that presidents have decisive power. When they get that wrong, they cannot be supported. There is no reality-based political or moral balancing act or rationale that can get around that.
Agree completely. I was told by a neighbor that "I've never been a one-issue voter", as if genocide is just a regular issue, and "oh, well, genocides happen, and this won't be the last", as if that makes it okay, and "but how about the glass ceiling?", as if getting a woman into the White House is more important than stopping mass murder, or "well, if Trump gets elected he'll end democracy", as if we have a democracy to end. It's all so insane!
People are still telling themselves that there’s no way Israel is that evil and that any civilian deaths are just a bad mistake or wrong place wrong time. Or they blame Yahoo, but not Israel as a culture as a whole. They lie to themselves because they certainly don’t condone killing children, even if it’s your enemy’s.
One might also want to consider that someone who will deliberately kill small children will obviously kill anybody. They might come for you, too. Why not?
America already attacked its own. Johnson, McCain Sr. and lots of other people in the government and military sent the USS Liberty to be destroyed by Israel in 1957 and then threatened the crew to keep their mouths shut or else.
I just watched this video about with a sailor who survived the attack.
Agree. I chose not to cast for anyone who is misaligned and malignant. I do not consent to the destruction of our humanity, the animals, ecosystem, etc. The natural order has been violated.
Often it does appear that we are given choices of the lesser of two evils and it's tempting to just withdraw from making any choice. Unfortunately, in doing so we take the risk of allowing the greater evil to prevail. I live in a state that is as red as they come, but I will still cast my vote for Harris / Walz. Not because they are perfect, but because I believe that they are the best choice available. Ultimately, my vote will not matter because of where I live, but I will know that I tried to make a choice that would make our country and our world a slightly better place.
I'm in no way "voting for genocide". In fact I'm voting for the most electable person likely to end the genocide and the only candidate that has expressed a desire to address the plight of the Palestinians. So F off.
She has emphasized how she is totally on board with genocide. You choose not to listen to the truth, be she will 1000% not end genocide. She’s part of the group that’s behind the genocide. Why do you refuse to acknowledge that she is a genocidal POS?
I'm not sure why you're saying that. She has acknowledged Israel's right to defend itself and at the same time condemned the lengths that Israel has taken to "defend itself" by murdering 40,000+ Palestinians. And she is calling for advancing a two state solution. Between Harris and Drumpf, the only candidates that have a chance to win the election who would you rather have? To protest by voting for Stein or another third party candidate only benefits your own sense of "justice" and does absolutely nothing to help the Palestinians. At least if Harris wins, I believe, that there may be some hope of stopping the genocide.
James Clark, Israel has no right to "defend itself". Israel being the aggressor and occupier for more than 70 years and done forays of killing and destruction of Palestinians all that time, and now ending in a genocide.
Palestinians have every right to "defend itself" with whatever means possible. Sadly they do not have the means compared to the war machine of Israel/West.
As for Kamala Harris talking about a two state solution, you know and I know that it's just a ploy, a window dressing.
For you to think Harris will do anything but perpetuate the genocide is asinine. It’s like you refuse to believe something, even though it’s right in front of your face and has been doubled down on time and time again. The Democratic Party is evil! The Republican Party is evil. They are both morally bankrupt and need to get the fuck out of our government. Anyone that has any self respect and respect towards your fellow human being, cannot vote for either party. To say anything different is a lie. Stop lying to yourself and accept the fact that our government is evil and it’s time to make it stop. A vote for Kamala is a vote for the oligarchy, a vote for mass murdering innocent people, and a vote to keep the common man down, around the world. You’ve awakened to the point of understanding that we’ve been lied to. Now wake up all the way and realize democrats and republicans aren’t on our side. The oligarchy is a very small minority, and we have the power to oust them, but not if you vote for one of them.
If you have a moral compass you don’t vote for puppets, controlled by genocidal oligarchs. You can’t claim to have a moral fiber in your body if you vote republican or democrat. That’s not something that can be argued.
This isn’t sound logic. Voting for stein has logic. Voting for people who are 100% on board with genocide is making yourself an accomplice to genocide. Harris and Waltz are the same as Trump and Vance. Trying to differentiate between one group of genocidal puppets and the other is group of genocidal puppets is an act in futility, as they are the same thing. You haven’t separated yourself from the propaganda yet. Voting for either side is in fact voting against your best interest. Open your eyes.
you said 'my vote will not matter because of where i live'. it seems to me you are in the luxury position in which you can easily vote your conscience. i'm pretty sure nobody who's going to win the election is going to make your country and the world a slightly better place.
maybe we have on what constitutes 'slightly better', but i assume you agree that there seems to be no pressure for you personally to vote for the genocide and yet you do. anyway, time will tell.
I decided a couple cycles ago to not vote evil but write in my dream team of competent, experienced people. Last election I refused the two, stupid old white men and chose Rashida Talib and Deb Haaland... Palestinian roots and indigenous American. How different might Netanyahitler and Biden's genocide look if only...
You've fallen victim to a common mathematical fallacy. Voting for another candidate such as a Green candidate does NOT take away a vote from a Blue or Red candidate. You have to remember that Greens only vote for their candidates--we're not going to vote for Team Blue or Red. That doesn't subtract or add a vote to either of those "purple parties". If you don't believe me, there's a simple experiment you can do to see the truth of this matter. Take three bowls or buckets and label them one, two, three or Green, Red, Blue. You hold a glass of water and your "vote" is that water. Pour your water into the bowl/bucket of your choice. Let's say you pour it into the second bucket. Now look at all three buckets--did the other two buckets lose or gain any water when you "voted?" Take your time... You'll conclude that no, your "vote" had no power to make the other candidate/bucket gain or lose votes. So, always vote your conscience and don't fall for the "lesser evil" voting nonsense. Voting for evil just brings more evil into the world. Vote for candidates who aren't supporting genocide, and you won't be helping others who do support genocide gain votes. The bucket scenario proves it.
Your assumption and proof are proven false by the 2000 presidential election. If the votes cast in Florida for Ralph Nader had been cast for Frank Gore, considered to be the most likely scenario, Gore would have become president.
It was "Al Gore" who ran in 2000. I don't know who Frank Gore is.
Also, like I said before Green Party members do NOT vote for non-Greens. So those who voted for Ralph Nader would only vote for him or not vote for that ballot line at all. It's a fact--many studies have shown that alternative party members are the most loyal voters. Much more loyal than either Dems or Repugs.
So, as the bucket scenario/mathematical logic theory explains, nothing would have changed the outcome. You might not like the outcome of the 2000 race in Florida, but throwing a temper tantrum online won't change history. It's over and done with 24 years ago.
Frank Gore is a former NFL running back, and likely a much better person than Al Gore. Given the choice between the two, I’d vote for Frank Gore 100/100 times.
Harris and Drumpf are the only choices with a chance of winning, I never stated or implied that they were the best choices. Hell, I personally would have taken Biden in a coma rather than Drumpf. The fact that your post contains "dummy" and "slave" as well as a comment on my picture says more about you than you are obviously aware.
Is "winning" what it's all about if by "winning" it means we've elected a person that will continue the genocide in Gaza, the proxy war in Ukraine, and possibly start WWIII? Read Caitlin's piece again. Ask yourself this: Why should I add to the "moral depravity" of Western civilization by supporting candidates who are pro-genocide?
You are beginning to sound like a Russian troll attempting to draw votes away from Harris so that Putin's puppet can get elected. Stein has no chance of affecting anything. Drumpf will turn America into a dystopian wasteland. A vote for Stein is a vote for Drumpf.
I was actually quite soft on you but now that you've doubled down... well... I guess you've just let some gas in your mask. Probably via direct pipe from your ass. That would explain TDS.
I agree with you, but what are we to do? I know I sound like a little old lady wringing her hands (I am a little old lady.), but I don't know what to do. I took heed of your newsletter of several days ago when you claimed that if we think we're going to impress any of the DNC or Congress or the President by voting for Jill Stein or Cornell West, we're sadly mistaken. That was, indeed, my reasoning for voting for one of them. I will still vote for Stein, because Trump is abhorrent, Harris is a phony, and I'm sick of the Democrats' hypocrisy, the never-ending wars, and most especially, the Israeli war against Palestinians which is the most corrupting to our souls, even though I was chided recently, by a Democrat, of course, for voting my principles instead of voting pragmatically for what was deemed best (by the Democratic establishment) for the society as a whole. In other words, I was satisfying my own ego at the expense of society's well-being. But the well-being is a delusion.
Humans have experienced thousands of revolutions in the past, .and we could be 60 minutes away from total annihilation.... Revolutions are one thing, but we had better find one that works pretty quickly...
I followed the link and found some useful ideas. If I understand, what you are saying is that, individually, all we can do currently is to try in our small ways to help inform, encourage and inspire others to understand and resist what's going on and to be prepared if and when efforts to overturn the current system begin to gather steam. I think that's true, but incomplete. We also need to also work at some even more difficult tasks, including organizing for collective actions to change the system. It is very difficult for individuals, even the most informed, inspired and enlightened, to have an effect if they are not organized and mobilized in groups and coalitions. Of course, good leadership at all levels is also needed. The failures of Occupy Wall Street and the Black Lives Matter movement illustrate that inconvenient fact. Your work is helping to gather, inform, inspire and create the dedicated and courageous followers and leaders we will need. (Your moral clarity, dedication and courage is an inspiring example!) One other point: A big obstacle for us stuck in the imperial borg is how it is hard to maintain the hope and optimism needed to carry on. Besides being on the right side of history, we should also remember that the empire we oppose is not the majority of the world. The imperial establishment is, in fact, losing power every day as the world order shifts away from the collective West (NATO and its allies) and toward China, Russia and the Global South (BRICS). This shift has its problems and dangers but is also opening possibilities and opportunities that should give us genuine optimism and hope for the future. We are not alone in a lonely individualistic struggle, and we need to remember that.
Should I lie? I'm old. Alone. Too many people I loved/cared about died too young. The few progressive (i.e., not insane) friends I still have recoil when I ask "But what about the genocide?" Then: we have to defeat Trump. They ignore me, bypass the question...and are themselves horrified I wouldn't vote either major party. What do I do with this? Lie to them? In my mind, THEIR minds in this regard seem...Trumpian. I should be the one horrified....that THEY are not horrified! I don't dare show pictures of the carnage...they would be angry at me...what would you do?
I honestly don't know😕 I'm also horrified that they're not. I just don't talk about it with them. My vote is private. They don't need to know. And I honestly don't have the mental bandwidth to explain their hypocrisy to them. How can Harris claim to support women's rights when she's absolutely okay bombing women in another country? And why can't they see that? Do they not think Palestinians are people?
if head on doesn't seem to work, try everyday analogies. leave the voting discussion dead end. try to enthuse them with organising resistance plans in case trump wins (which will miraculously also prove useful in case kamala wins).
Greta Thunberg said, "Action is the antidote to despair." Caitlin offered the only answer that I find sensible in "Revolution is Now." I too am old and alone.
you can do both, voting stein or west will indeed not impress anybody, but might ease your conscience (as you said vote your principles) which might prepare you for the more important actions (that can start today), disrupt the narrative, open eyes, find kindred spirits.
Consider a vote for Stein is effectively a vote for Drumpf. In the 2000 election if Ralph Nader hadn't been on the ballot then Frank Gore would have been president. Maybe no 9/11, no war with Iran, no 2008 recession, and a jump start on addressing climate change.
Please reconsider your arithmetic. A vote for Stein might be equivalent to not voting; it is not equivalent to a vote for Trump. I consider this worth mentioning because I have voted for Stein previously and heard the same argument then.
Biology predisposes, environment -- local and wider culture -- act on the biology, as always. But it's too narrow to limit biology to genes. We're masters at ignoring enviro-toxicity, starting with effects on fetal neuroendocrine maturation in utero and continuing with the toxic soup (including food) we've created in which kids' brains/ glands/immune systems develop to maturity (let's say 25 yrs). It all factors in, and we remain ignorant of most of it, otherwise we'd have to admit our complicity in being casual about the the tox issues.
I believe in God and I believe there are true demons here on earth right now. I detest whats happening in Gaza and I will never understand how politicians and leaders can look the other way. I have to include alternative media who act so righteous, they say things like " I stand with Israel" while saying "stay close to God" I say, stay as far away from those media people as possible, they lie. If they are too gutless to tell the truth then they're helping to murder Palestinians.
Reading Caitlin helps me to not feel so alone. I can barely stand the sight of my “liberal” friends that think it’s just so groovy that Kamala is the way and the light. They are brain dead, clearly cannot recall the Obama years and cling to identity politics. What I see when I look at them are people that are gleefully voting for endless war and genocide just like Taylor Swift. Hope Taylor’s proud of herself for encouraging her fans to support death, destruction and ethnic cleansing.
Nailed this one. I’m not a big fan of Trump as a person, but considering the outright sabotage he dealt with from outside and inside of his administration, he did a fairly good job in his first term.
That said, as big a buffoon as he can be, Trump is our only chance to avoid continued or new wars for the next few years.
I don’t honestly think that Trump has a particular moral aversion to war, but rather that he just thinks it’s bad business and he likes the challenge of negotiating peace. It isn’t exactly the right motivation, but I’ll take it for now.
If one wants to condemn many thousand more of our (mostly) young men to death for globalist interests, then go right ahead and vote for Harris, Stein, or whatever weirdo the Libertarian Party nominated this year. The highly egotistical and often bloviating Trump is frankly our only hope at the moment.
I have been to demos where people were resisting what the rich and powerful are doing to our world. I have seen people pepper sprayed, violently arrested, beaten with clubs, pushed to the ground. When people do try to stop "them" the people are punished. That and brainwashing people with lies about our "democracy" is how they get away with it. And now they are threatening to go to war with everyone and use nuclear power if "need be ".
But the leaders say they're for democracy and freedom and liberty and all that. Based on an argument infantile people offer - it's democracy and freedom and liberty's fault. Look at what is done in their names!
That bullshit would be called out immediately by the people of the forum (including Caitlin). And they would be right. But then they'll turn around and blame faith and religion for something people do in their names.
Welcome to the effects of propaganda. It is okay to kill children and unarmed women...or ones with rocks against tanks. They are some how highly trained Hamas agents. War crimes would only result in removal of those officials if people thought the war crimes occurred. I remember talking to one friend, usually a very good person with sound judgment. Two very strange instances. One was over the war in the Ukraine where I said that the US should move to end the war to save Ukrainian people from senseless death. They answered that Putin could immediately end the war by withdrawing from the Ukraine...you know believing the whole notion Putin invaded the Ukraine unprovoked...(ignoring 2014 for example). The second thing was where I stated that the US demonstrated the wrong response to the terrorist attack on 911, this friend stated we "invaded the wrong country" Yes, they said that...So we can literally invade other countries without backlash?? My point this is the effects of propaganda that create moral degeneracy. Terrifying.
They talk about how Germans allowed Hitler's rise to power that lead to the atrocities he is known for. Giving Israel weapons to committ genocide is psychotic and immoral. Especially when one US official noted "Israel has been using weapons inconsistently with international law"... By what measure of sanity should we keep giving them weapons?
Harris receiving Cheney's endorsement is seen as vindicating her...making her politically valid and elevating her over Trump. What it says is that the Democrats admit their policy is highly conservative. How would anyway from the other end of the spectrum politically endorse the opposing party? Realistically two very different ideologies, right? That's where Caitlin states we have one party and it is true. I recall Powell endorsing Obama, there wasn't huge political offense that I recall. Though Powell and Obama would be very similar and that's the point. Democrats eat this up because they only care about winning, by Democrats(I mean voters) and they don't care where their support comes from because it improves their candidates chances of winning in their eyes. They don't care about policy...That is why there is a genocide happening, that is why there is a homeless problem, that is why there is a mental health problem...moral decay and degeneracy through propaganda.
That whole thing is so convoluted, it's like the genocide supporters say it is, "it's complicated", and when we're all dead we can say the same thing from our graves; except of course that there'll be no one left to bury us.
Watching those two fools argue over who loves Israel more is all I really needed to see from the ‘debate’. They can argue over cats and dogs all day long, but the nature of the beast is exposed by that which they agree upon.
A recent example of this I experienced was when I posted on Substack that I wouldn't vote for either of the purple parties (Republicans or Democrats or their equivalents in other countries) who support genocide. I was told that I was letting the perfect be the enemy of the good.
I don't see anything good about a party that enables genocide with our tax dollars, and I can't get past that. I refuse to.
I’ve received the same ridiculous smug response. Only there’s no amount of good that can justify genocide and child murder. Opposing those horrors does not make anyone perfect, just human.
Exactly, Claire. It drastically diminishes the value of the lives of Palestinians. It's like comparing genocide to a parking violation. There is nothing good about funding and arming Israel as it commits genocide against the Palestinians.
Claire,
"There’s no amount of good that can justify genocide and child murder"....... You could say that 16,000 times, but everyday other children get slaughtered... ....
And i can’t even search through the rubble for any “ good”
Stay strong - argue with two dear friends this weekend when saying voting for R or D was a vote to continued genocide. They had no solid response - other than but ‘the pets’ ‘women’s choice’ ‘immigration’ - my response “those are distractions” they both went silent.
My best friend is now careful never to use the word "perfect" around me because I "bit her head off" for using a paraphrase of that stupid slogan I am so tired of. Like opposing a candidate and party that is 10% less evil than the other unimaginably evil one is irresponsibly demanding perfection? No--Harris and the D's are not "good." They are not a little short of perfection. In any case, as Caitlin says, the election is irrelevant. Policy won't change, whoever wins. Well, possibly domestic policy, a little. Like we'll get moves in the right direction on climate and the environment that are 5% of what we need, whereas Trump will make it 10% worse.
I have disdain for both parties. However, the Democrats have done nothing for the environment, nothing. They are just as bad as the Republicans. None of them truly care for us or the environment. Ecosystems are crashing all over the world, the food we eat is becoming less nutritious every year. We’re more sick than our parents and grandparents. Dems destroy the environment for profit just as bad as the other group. They “pretend” to care more about the climate/ environment because that is the role they’re playing. Republicans pretend to care about the economy and small business. That’s the role they’re told to play. It’s all smoke and mirrors to keep us divided and mad at each other. We fight and argue with one another, while they gain more power and control over all of us, and continue to ravage the planet of its last resources.
Precisely they want to keep us divided as a distraction to what the despicable deep state is doing to the western people. It is terrible but on the positive side more and more people are recognising what is happening and whilst the deep state try to censor us they know that it is all going to come to an end - the public will unite
I hope so. I feel so many people still haven’t woken up. I’m friends with them. They don’t get it. My husband still believes in voting. He thinks Trump and RFK will save us. Oy vey. WE MUST SAVE US. Don’t wait for someone to save you. Wake up and save yourself, this will save all of us. We need to unite together. All of us little people. The 99%. That’s how we will win. I don’t know how to get more people to wake up.
Yes yes yes‼️
"Did I say I was against fracking, I mean I am Pro Fracking just like Pro Genocide" Genocide Kamala root meaning.
Exactly!
I have come to the conclusion a Trump victory might force the Democrats to impeach Trump for four years voting against everything the Republicant's want. Voting Jill Stein, there is no lesser Genocide. I will think of you as I vote for Jill.
Thise thoughts will mean a lot to the Palestinians dying under siege while your vote does absolutely NOTHING.
Like most humans, your posters are masters at rationalization in service of tribal goals.
"OK, fine, so The Leader molests children. But he buys them candy first and he's really nice to his mom!"
Haha....sadly that's really funny....
I wish it was satire.
It’s always a downward spiral when we accept that “lesser of two-evils”framework.
It is so insidious, because it keeps you trapped in the same room that has closing walls decade after decade like the trash compactor in Star Wars. It normalizes your helplessness in believing that you must participate in a corrupt electoral system, and accepting breadcrumbs is your only realistic path forward. Meanwhile, decade after decade, the immoral exploitation of human beings and the planet in the name of "greed is good" gets worse, and here we are on the verge of nuclear annihilation by these same "lesser of two evils" sociopathic imbeciles running our lives.
Hello jamenta, Remember we talked about the "lesser of two evils" being still evil... I am glad that I don't have to make that awful choice! On second thoughts the vassal state citizens too ought to have the vote as we are all subjects of empire.
Being part of a vassal state, Indu, but faced with a stiff fine if you do not vote, that is a slightly greater penalty than having the choice to opt out. We have no choice.
If you think that your two misfits are about the worst that ca be produced to carry on with the totally supported Israeli genocide, the ongoing grovelling to Adolph #2 in Israel, humiliating to say the least, the management of your proxy forces in NATO as they are driven to kill Russians, day after day, you have many more in the West that are their equal, mirror images of all that is so reprehensible in your two.
So many of these candidates have just completed elections....Germany, France, UK and soon Australia and they have the identical philosophies as you are faced with. So it's a universal illness where the people do not have a single chance to amend the current world political climate
Now that is the greatest danger of all. Like goes on and nothing changes.
Very well said. Bravo!
Leverage is of no effect if you never use it.
Leverage is only useful when you have something that the other person wants. "We'll hold their feet to the fire after the election!" is vague - what does any of that mean? Worse, after the election you no longer have anything that the candidate wants.
One must use one's imagination.
We must use the election as a "tool" and we shouldn't hold their feet over the fire AFTER the election. We need to use our "tools" before. And keep on using your tools of defiance over and over again like a hammer to build a better society.
Choose the most suited to the job and elect congress to address your issues.
I'm with you💕 I refuse to vote for either monster.
Amen!
Yes, there’s definitely no good in either party, they only serve their rich masters. Voting for a democrat or republican is an indisputably immoral act.
A variant of this argument is when people say, "but abortion; but guns; but racism; but transgender; but inequality; but free speech, but immigration; but voting rights; but health care, but global warming; but Covid; but . . ." The fact is that those are all issues over which presidents have little decisive power. They must be decided through the broad political process in which presidents are defeated or stymied far more often than they get their way. It's only on issues of war and peace, national security and foreign policy, that presidents have decisive power. When they get that wrong, they cannot be supported. There is no reality-based political or moral balancing act or rationale that can get around that.
Agree completely. I was told by a neighbor that "I've never been a one-issue voter", as if genocide is just a regular issue, and "oh, well, genocides happen, and this won't be the last", as if that makes it okay, and "but how about the glass ceiling?", as if getting a woman into the White House is more important than stopping mass murder, or "well, if Trump gets elected he'll end democracy", as if we have a democracy to end. It's all so insane!
I am voting Jill Stein, I want to sleep knowing I didn't contribute to lesser or greater genocide which ever one that is.
People are still telling themselves that there’s no way Israel is that evil and that any civilian deaths are just a bad mistake or wrong place wrong time. Or they blame Yahoo, but not Israel as a culture as a whole. They lie to themselves because they certainly don’t condone killing children, even if it’s your enemy’s.
One might also want to consider that someone who will deliberately kill small children will obviously kill anybody. They might come for you, too. Why not?
America already attacked its own. Johnson, McCain Sr. and lots of other people in the government and military sent the USS Liberty to be destroyed by Israel in 1957 and then threatened the crew to keep their mouths shut or else.
I just watched this video about with a sailor who survived the attack.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bBf1aFRUjI
It also betrays the vets it sends around the world to fight for empire and then ignores them once they are no longer needed.
1967.
Here's another podcast with the three sailors: Phil Tourney, Larry Bowen, Joe Meadors: https://youtu.be/JITBsNMcN8A
Ziggy fingers…I meant 1967. But my point stands.
Agree. I chose not to cast for anyone who is misaligned and malignant. I do not consent to the destruction of our humanity, the animals, ecosystem, etc. The natural order has been violated.
Same here.
Often it does appear that we are given choices of the lesser of two evils and it's tempting to just withdraw from making any choice. Unfortunately, in doing so we take the risk of allowing the greater evil to prevail. I live in a state that is as red as they come, but I will still cast my vote for Harris / Walz. Not because they are perfect, but because I believe that they are the best choice available. Ultimately, my vote will not matter because of where I live, but I will know that I tried to make a choice that would make our country and our world a slightly better place.
However you rationalize voting for genocide.
I'm in no way "voting for genocide". In fact I'm voting for the most electable person likely to end the genocide and the only candidate that has expressed a desire to address the plight of the Palestinians. So F off.
Caity has in detail taken that delusion apart.
Own it.
She stated her opinion, nothing more. I stated my opinion, nothing more.
You can disagree with my opinion, but you choose to make a false and derogatory claim, so again FUCK OFF.
Caity provides specifics. You do not, nor do you contest her points except to say "that's like, just your opinion, man..."
Don't be offended. Own it. This is who you are.
it’s people like you why there is suffering in this world
Just what are you doing, other than passing judgement on others? If you have an opinion on the subject then state it. Otherwise FUCK OFF.
what the hell are you doing here anyways? shouldn’t you be watching MSNBC?
She has emphasized how she is totally on board with genocide. You choose not to listen to the truth, be she will 1000% not end genocide. She’s part of the group that’s behind the genocide. Why do you refuse to acknowledge that she is a genocidal POS?
I'm not sure why you're saying that. She has acknowledged Israel's right to defend itself and at the same time condemned the lengths that Israel has taken to "defend itself" by murdering 40,000+ Palestinians. And she is calling for advancing a two state solution. Between Harris and Drumpf, the only candidates that have a chance to win the election who would you rather have? To protest by voting for Stein or another third party candidate only benefits your own sense of "justice" and does absolutely nothing to help the Palestinians. At least if Harris wins, I believe, that there may be some hope of stopping the genocide.
James Clark, Israel has no right to "defend itself". Israel being the aggressor and occupier for more than 70 years and done forays of killing and destruction of Palestinians all that time, and now ending in a genocide.
Palestinians have every right to "defend itself" with whatever means possible. Sadly they do not have the means compared to the war machine of Israel/West.
As for Kamala Harris talking about a two state solution, you know and I know that it's just a ploy, a window dressing.
For you to think Harris will do anything but perpetuate the genocide is asinine. It’s like you refuse to believe something, even though it’s right in front of your face and has been doubled down on time and time again. The Democratic Party is evil! The Republican Party is evil. They are both morally bankrupt and need to get the fuck out of our government. Anyone that has any self respect and respect towards your fellow human being, cannot vote for either party. To say anything different is a lie. Stop lying to yourself and accept the fact that our government is evil and it’s time to make it stop. A vote for Kamala is a vote for the oligarchy, a vote for mass murdering innocent people, and a vote to keep the common man down, around the world. You’ve awakened to the point of understanding that we’ve been lied to. Now wake up all the way and realize democrats and republicans aren’t on our side. The oligarchy is a very small minority, and we have the power to oust them, but not if you vote for one of them.
If you have a moral compass you don’t vote for puppets, controlled by genocidal oligarchs. You can’t claim to have a moral fiber in your body if you vote republican or democrat. That’s not something that can be argued.
Never mind, you’re a Zionist.
This isn’t sound logic. Voting for stein has logic. Voting for people who are 100% on board with genocide is making yourself an accomplice to genocide. Harris and Waltz are the same as Trump and Vance. Trying to differentiate between one group of genocidal puppets and the other is group of genocidal puppets is an act in futility, as they are the same thing. You haven’t separated yourself from the propaganda yet. Voting for either side is in fact voting against your best interest. Open your eyes.
no 3rd party?
Not with a chance of winning the election.
you said 'my vote will not matter because of where i live'. it seems to me you are in the luxury position in which you can easily vote your conscience. i'm pretty sure nobody who's going to win the election is going to make your country and the world a slightly better place.
And thus we have a difference of opinion good sir! Have a Wonderful Evening.
maybe we have on what constitutes 'slightly better', but i assume you agree that there seems to be no pressure for you personally to vote for the genocide and yet you do. anyway, time will tell.
I decided a couple cycles ago to not vote evil but write in my dream team of competent, experienced people. Last election I refused the two, stupid old white men and chose Rashida Talib and Deb Haaland... Palestinian roots and indigenous American. How different might Netanyahitler and Biden's genocide look if only...
You've fallen victim to a common mathematical fallacy. Voting for another candidate such as a Green candidate does NOT take away a vote from a Blue or Red candidate. You have to remember that Greens only vote for their candidates--we're not going to vote for Team Blue or Red. That doesn't subtract or add a vote to either of those "purple parties". If you don't believe me, there's a simple experiment you can do to see the truth of this matter. Take three bowls or buckets and label them one, two, three or Green, Red, Blue. You hold a glass of water and your "vote" is that water. Pour your water into the bowl/bucket of your choice. Let's say you pour it into the second bucket. Now look at all three buckets--did the other two buckets lose or gain any water when you "voted?" Take your time... You'll conclude that no, your "vote" had no power to make the other candidate/bucket gain or lose votes. So, always vote your conscience and don't fall for the "lesser evil" voting nonsense. Voting for evil just brings more evil into the world. Vote for candidates who aren't supporting genocide, and you won't be helping others who do support genocide gain votes. The bucket scenario proves it.
Your assumption and proof are proven false by the 2000 presidential election. If the votes cast in Florida for Ralph Nader had been cast for Frank Gore, considered to be the most likely scenario, Gore would have become president.
It was "Al Gore" who ran in 2000. I don't know who Frank Gore is.
Also, like I said before Green Party members do NOT vote for non-Greens. So those who voted for Ralph Nader would only vote for him or not vote for that ballot line at all. It's a fact--many studies have shown that alternative party members are the most loyal voters. Much more loyal than either Dems or Repugs.
So, as the bucket scenario/mathematical logic theory explains, nothing would have changed the outcome. You might not like the outcome of the 2000 race in Florida, but throwing a temper tantrum online won't change history. It's over and done with 24 years ago.
Frank Gore is a former NFL running back, and likely a much better person than Al Gore. Given the choice between the two, I’d vote for Frank Gore 100/100 times.
"because I believe that they are the best choice available." - there are other choices, dummy. But why am I wasting my time talking to a slave.
Actually, just peeked at your picture, well, never mind. Already typed the above in so...
Harris and Drumpf are the only choices with a chance of winning, I never stated or implied that they were the best choices. Hell, I personally would have taken Biden in a coma rather than Drumpf. The fact that your post contains "dummy" and "slave" as well as a comment on my picture says more about you than you are obviously aware.
Is "winning" what it's all about if by "winning" it means we've elected a person that will continue the genocide in Gaza, the proxy war in Ukraine, and possibly start WWIII? Read Caitlin's piece again. Ask yourself this: Why should I add to the "moral depravity" of Western civilization by supporting candidates who are pro-genocide?
You are beginning to sound like a Russian troll attempting to draw votes away from Harris so that Putin's puppet can get elected. Stein has no chance of affecting anything. Drumpf will turn America into a dystopian wasteland. A vote for Stein is a vote for Drumpf.
Harris / Walz 2024!
"so that Putin's puppet can get elected" - so the horseface is also a Russiagater. What a surprise!
I was actually quite soft on you but now that you've doubled down... well... I guess you've just let some gas in your mask. Probably via direct pipe from your ass. That would explain TDS.
Just the reply one would expect from a Russian troll.
Can't argue with truth can ya horseface?
I agree with you, but what are we to do? I know I sound like a little old lady wringing her hands (I am a little old lady.), but I don't know what to do. I took heed of your newsletter of several days ago when you claimed that if we think we're going to impress any of the DNC or Congress or the President by voting for Jill Stein or Cornell West, we're sadly mistaken. That was, indeed, my reasoning for voting for one of them. I will still vote for Stein, because Trump is abhorrent, Harris is a phony, and I'm sick of the Democrats' hypocrisy, the never-ending wars, and most especially, the Israeli war against Palestinians which is the most corrupting to our souls, even though I was chided recently, by a Democrat, of course, for voting my principles instead of voting pragmatically for what was deemed best (by the Democratic establishment) for the society as a whole. In other words, I was satisfying my own ego at the expense of society's well-being. But the well-being is a delusion.
I wrote some ideas about what we can do the other day: https://www.caitlinjohnst.one/p/revolution-is-now
Humans have experienced thousands of revolutions in the past, .and we could be 60 minutes away from total annihilation.... Revolutions are one thing, but we had better find one that works pretty quickly...
I have some hope while Putin is in charge.
Putin and Xi are holding things from spinning completely out of control. I completely believe this.
Lowell Googins, I believe this too.
I think THE most effective and IMMEDIATE impact people can have is a nationwide general strike. Complete work stoppage.
Now, there's a "tool" we can all use to maximum effect. General Strike. Everywhere. All the time. No letting up until the genocides are halted.
BDS is another effective tool in our arsenal as the 99% as well.
That's getting creative.
I followed the link and found some useful ideas. If I understand, what you are saying is that, individually, all we can do currently is to try in our small ways to help inform, encourage and inspire others to understand and resist what's going on and to be prepared if and when efforts to overturn the current system begin to gather steam. I think that's true, but incomplete. We also need to also work at some even more difficult tasks, including organizing for collective actions to change the system. It is very difficult for individuals, even the most informed, inspired and enlightened, to have an effect if they are not organized and mobilized in groups and coalitions. Of course, good leadership at all levels is also needed. The failures of Occupy Wall Street and the Black Lives Matter movement illustrate that inconvenient fact. Your work is helping to gather, inform, inspire and create the dedicated and courageous followers and leaders we will need. (Your moral clarity, dedication and courage is an inspiring example!) One other point: A big obstacle for us stuck in the imperial borg is how it is hard to maintain the hope and optimism needed to carry on. Besides being on the right side of history, we should also remember that the empire we oppose is not the majority of the world. The imperial establishment is, in fact, losing power every day as the world order shifts away from the collective West (NATO and its allies) and toward China, Russia and the Global South (BRICS). This shift has its problems and dangers but is also opening possibilities and opportunities that should give us genuine optimism and hope for the future. We are not alone in a lonely individualistic struggle, and we need to remember that.
I've been chided too😕 I'm voting for Jill Stein. My conscience will be clear. I refuse to vote for another monster.
Should I lie? I'm old. Alone. Too many people I loved/cared about died too young. The few progressive (i.e., not insane) friends I still have recoil when I ask "But what about the genocide?" Then: we have to defeat Trump. They ignore me, bypass the question...and are themselves horrified I wouldn't vote either major party. What do I do with this? Lie to them? In my mind, THEIR minds in this regard seem...Trumpian. I should be the one horrified....that THEY are not horrified! I don't dare show pictures of the carnage...they would be angry at me...what would you do?
I honestly don't know😕 I'm also horrified that they're not. I just don't talk about it with them. My vote is private. They don't need to know. And I honestly don't have the mental bandwidth to explain their hypocrisy to them. How can Harris claim to support women's rights when she's absolutely okay bombing women in another country? And why can't they see that? Do they not think Palestinians are people?
if head on doesn't seem to work, try everyday analogies. leave the voting discussion dead end. try to enthuse them with organising resistance plans in case trump wins (which will miraculously also prove useful in case kamala wins).
Greta Thunberg said, "Action is the antidote to despair." Caitlin offered the only answer that I find sensible in "Revolution is Now." I too am old and alone.
Like the song, "Only the good die young".
Good for you. They may not need to know that we are here, but we sure need to see it for ourselves. Let us slow ourselves in the millions.
Absolutely!
I SOOOOOOO am in your tribe, sister...
you can do both, voting stein or west will indeed not impress anybody, but might ease your conscience (as you said vote your principles) which might prepare you for the more important actions (that can start today), disrupt the narrative, open eyes, find kindred spirits.
I love you and walk with you voting for Jill Stein. There is no lesser Genocide.
Consider a vote for Stein is effectively a vote for Drumpf. In the 2000 election if Ralph Nader hadn't been on the ballot then Frank Gore would have been president. Maybe no 9/11, no war with Iran, no 2008 recession, and a jump start on addressing climate change.
Please reconsider your arithmetic. A vote for Stein might be equivalent to not voting; it is not equivalent to a vote for Trump. I consider this worth mentioning because I have voted for Stein previously and heard the same argument then.
Thank you. You nail it every friggin' time.
She can knock it out of the park, I mean really knock it out of the park,
if she would address L I H O P (Let It Happen On Purpose).
The evidence is overwhelming! Israel let it happen, made it happen, on Oct 7th.
Imagine if Caitlin had this headline:
**********************************************
Genocide Pretext Collapses, Betrayal Exposed !
**********************************************
The West is ruled by sociopaths, sociopaths who are able for the most part to fake empathy when needed, but sociopaths, nonetheless.
Once you understand this basic point, everything they do makes perfect sense in a world where The Will To Power is all that there is.
Spot on.
Are you born with sociopathic tendencies or is that families are lousy?
I don't think there is a clear answer to this question.
No I don't either. It's possible a lot of people have sociopathic tendencies the question is. Some act upon these tendencies and others don't.
It surely has to have something to do with family/schooling.
It's interesting to note that everyone of my friends at some point or another suffered severe trauma but turned out to be very kind people.
Biology predisposes, environment -- local and wider culture -- act on the biology, as always. But it's too narrow to limit biology to genes. We're masters at ignoring enviro-toxicity, starting with effects on fetal neuroendocrine maturation in utero and continuing with the toxic soup (including food) we've created in which kids' brains/ glands/immune systems develop to maturity (let's say 25 yrs). It all factors in, and we remain ignorant of most of it, otherwise we'd have to admit our complicity in being casual about the the tox issues.
Thanks Vin. Certainly seems likely + family.
Family also means what you allow your kids to eat........
Definitely, Jenny, I'd include family in the local part of culture.
Both
I believe in God and I believe there are true demons here on earth right now. I detest whats happening in Gaza and I will never understand how politicians and leaders can look the other way. I have to include alternative media who act so righteous, they say things like " I stand with Israel" while saying "stay close to God" I say, stay as far away from those media people as possible, they lie. If they are too gutless to tell the truth then they're helping to murder Palestinians.
Black magic, but it's so dark that I'm even going there
Needs to be said - demonic indeed. The way of Gaza will be the way of the world.
There are 80 proposed Cop Cities in the US. Is this connected to Gaza? Intimately.
Reading Caitlin helps me to not feel so alone. I can barely stand the sight of my “liberal” friends that think it’s just so groovy that Kamala is the way and the light. They are brain dead, clearly cannot recall the Obama years and cling to identity politics. What I see when I look at them are people that are gleefully voting for endless war and genocide just like Taylor Swift. Hope Taylor’s proud of herself for encouraging her fans to support death, destruction and ethnic cleansing.
Nailed this one. I’m not a big fan of Trump as a person, but considering the outright sabotage he dealt with from outside and inside of his administration, he did a fairly good job in his first term.
That said, as big a buffoon as he can be, Trump is our only chance to avoid continued or new wars for the next few years.
I don’t honestly think that Trump has a particular moral aversion to war, but rather that he just thinks it’s bad business and he likes the challenge of negotiating peace. It isn’t exactly the right motivation, but I’ll take it for now.
If one wants to condemn many thousand more of our (mostly) young men to death for globalist interests, then go right ahead and vote for Harris, Stein, or whatever weirdo the Libertarian Party nominated this year. The highly egotistical and often bloviating Trump is frankly our only hope at the moment.
I have been to demos where people were resisting what the rich and powerful are doing to our world. I have seen people pepper sprayed, violently arrested, beaten with clubs, pushed to the ground. When people do try to stop "them" the people are punished. That and brainwashing people with lies about our "democracy" is how they get away with it. And now they are threatening to go to war with everyone and use nuclear power if "need be ".
"They" are "US", as in you and me.... Wars start in our own back yards... just ask any homeless person if human compassion is on the menu....
People who are resisting are trying to deal with the wars in our own back yards. Often it does not go well for them.
Correct.
Ever seen "Don't Look Up!"?
Don't be surprised if we're all dead by Monday; that's how serious it is
But the leaders say they're for democracy and freedom and liberty and all that. Based on an argument infantile people offer - it's democracy and freedom and liberty's fault. Look at what is done in their names!
That bullshit would be called out immediately by the people of the forum (including Caitlin). And they would be right. But then they'll turn around and blame faith and religion for something people do in their names.
This simple 2+2 puts them in stupor.
Very refreshing russian_bot.
I am sure we - or most of us - on this forum understand how religion is weaponised as a tool of oppression. Remember how Islamaphobia became rampant.
Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of happiness.... but then they do not ask: At whose expense ?
Welcome to the effects of propaganda. It is okay to kill children and unarmed women...or ones with rocks against tanks. They are some how highly trained Hamas agents. War crimes would only result in removal of those officials if people thought the war crimes occurred. I remember talking to one friend, usually a very good person with sound judgment. Two very strange instances. One was over the war in the Ukraine where I said that the US should move to end the war to save Ukrainian people from senseless death. They answered that Putin could immediately end the war by withdrawing from the Ukraine...you know believing the whole notion Putin invaded the Ukraine unprovoked...(ignoring 2014 for example). The second thing was where I stated that the US demonstrated the wrong response to the terrorist attack on 911, this friend stated we "invaded the wrong country" Yes, they said that...So we can literally invade other countries without backlash?? My point this is the effects of propaganda that create moral degeneracy. Terrifying.
They talk about how Germans allowed Hitler's rise to power that lead to the atrocities he is known for. Giving Israel weapons to committ genocide is psychotic and immoral. Especially when one US official noted "Israel has been using weapons inconsistently with international law"... By what measure of sanity should we keep giving them weapons?
Harris receiving Cheney's endorsement is seen as vindicating her...making her politically valid and elevating her over Trump. What it says is that the Democrats admit their policy is highly conservative. How would anyway from the other end of the spectrum politically endorse the opposing party? Realistically two very different ideologies, right? That's where Caitlin states we have one party and it is true. I recall Powell endorsing Obama, there wasn't huge political offense that I recall. Though Powell and Obama would be very similar and that's the point. Democrats eat this up because they only care about winning, by Democrats(I mean voters) and they don't care where their support comes from because it improves their candidates chances of winning in their eyes. They don't care about policy...That is why there is a genocide happening, that is why there is a homeless problem, that is why there is a mental health problem...moral decay and degeneracy through propaganda.
That whole thing is so convoluted, it's like the genocide supporters say it is, "it's complicated", and when we're all dead we can say the same thing from our graves; except of course that there'll be no one left to bury us.
Hard hitting. Thanks Caitlin.
Thank you for so eloquently explaining something I struggle with every freaking day.
"You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy." - Obi Wan Kenobi describing the British Palace of Westminster.
Watching those two fools argue over who loves Israel more is all I really needed to see from the ‘debate’. They can argue over cats and dogs all day long, but the nature of the beast is exposed by that which they agree upon.
Thank You Caitlin
Caitlin Johnstone you just Get it, thank you
I wish I could meet more people who want to deal with reality.