Refuse to obey unlawful orders. The “I was just following orders” imho should not apply when it comes to murdering women and kids. It was done by U.S. troops in Vietnam also, I’m afraid(the murdering of civilians).
I’ve related this story before. A classmate of my husband was under the command of Lt. Wm. Calley at the My Lai massacre. When ordered to shoot civilians, K fired once then laid down his firearm. He was court-marshaled for REFUSING TO MURDER UNARMED CIVILIANS.
K was later exonerated but the incident had an enormously negative impact on his life.
The impact would have been far greater had he followed orders to kill innocent fellow human beings. War has an enormously negative impact on everything and everyone. Thanks for your comment sister.
Yes I have heard of that horrible atrocity that took place in Vietnam. He was right to refuse to carry out that order and instead of a court marshal he should have got a Medal of Honor.
Well yeah. Pretty much the only way an effective military can act. When you're in battle, you have people giving orders to other human beings that can and often does lead to their deaths. Sometimes military orders sacrifice one unit, to reach a tactical goal, or to save another more important military unit from harm. When people's lives are being sacrificed every day, you can't have the grunts questioning their orders and not obeying them. It has to be drilled into them to follow orders, even to their own deaths. That's what war is made up of, constant death, constant murdering - blood everywhere, including those you just woke up with the other day. No way a military order can be up for a vote.
Should this country ever get the chance to have the reality of it even roughly approximate its ideals, before time runs out (doubtful), one thing I’d want to see is that its military officer corps and its recruits be schooled in the “duty to disobey” doctrine found in both the UCMJ and in the Nuremberg Principles. This country’s history of war crimes necessitates that. This would put everyone – particularly the politicians, who get us into wars – on alert that “what you say ain’t necessarily so,” and therefore is no basis for a) putting oneself at unwarranted risk, and b) putting others at unwarranted risk.
Colin Powell, as both ex-military and high government official at the time, could have averted a catastrophe reverberating to this day had he recited Steely Dan to George, Dick, Don, Paul, Condoleezza, Scooter and a bunch of others:
I'm a fool to do your dirty work, oh yeah
I don't wanna do your dirty work no more
I'm a fool to do your dirty work, oh yeah
In other words, and referring to a not very good movie from 1970 but whose title I like, “Suppose They Gave a War and Nobody Came?” What’s the harm in that, except to some Right wing ideologues, imperialists, and capitalists... and oh, Zionists?
So in other words, "Okay, that box checked, now get on with loading that 2,000 lb. bunker buster, intel tells us we got a school to hit where Israel tells us terrorists are hiding out," do I have that right?
Also, nazis were "good" soldiers obeying orders. It is in german genes. Never question authority no matter how wrong it is. There is no difference between german supremacist nazis, US fascist exceptionalist, and zionist talmudist israelis.
War itself is a crime against humanity. It's a crime committed because of the utter, forever stupidity of humankind. Of misguided people neurotically in the grasp of unconscious power complexes, who lack the empathy required to perceive the path of endless blood that inevitably becomes their legacy. Of 20+ year olds who are unable to think for themselves, and fall for the lies told to them - lies as old as ancient Rome and Nero's fiddle.
It’s a band. Called scooter. They make silly cheesy techno and are not involved in the war in Iran in any way as far as I can tell. Sorry, this was a joke.
It is apparently quite legal for soldiers not to "follow" orders if they are not humane, or illegal. Right now the war on Iran is not legal, drumpf did not go through congress, he is not a king with sole rule, he is a president-who may have become president by tech cheating-therefore would have no right at all to declare war on a non-aggresive country that has not fired, or threatened to fire missiles at the US. This illegal war is about oil, find out how much drumpf, and his family are invested in oil.
Israel is out to take over the whole ME as step one to world domination. The carnage and death they are causing could all be stopped with two bullets.
This tripe about Jesus anointing drumpf is the most ridiculous stupidity ever to come out of the mouths of grown adults. As if Jesus would even look at a paedophile to run a business let alone anointing drumpf as his anything. That is desperation to pretend something that is so far from any possible truth, it's hysterical. Are these people hypnotised that they let such nonsense come out of their mouths, especially to soldiers they are sending to their deaths, all because some evangelicals are desperate for the "end times". If they are so eager, give them rifles and send them instead of young men who haven't asked for this, and only joined the military to get an education and get a good job at the end of the time they signed up for.
When the end times come all of you barracking for war against countries that did not threaten you - you are not going to be lifted up, no way, definitely not. You are the ones that will be left behind to suffer what you called for on these other countries - barren wasteland, burning air in places, hell on earth.
Hospitaller: I put no stock in religion. By the word religion I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called the will of God. Holiness is in right action and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves, and goodness. What God desires is here
[points to head]
Hospitaller: and here
[points to heart]
Hospitaller: and what you decide to do every day, you will be a good man - or not.
It matters not, Jamenta, it's these religious fanatics that are stirring up these wars, and now the military NCOs and above are involving themselves in this madness.
There is no such thing as illegal and/or inhumane for US, german or israel leaders. And 99% of their coward soldiers will obey every single time. Ever heard of manifest destiny - a racist fascist ideology a foundation of depraved and criminal US.
Yes. Carl Jung wrote somewhere that many remain psychological children - since they derive strength and identity from being part of collective hive mind thinking - become automatons that fail to individuate their own selfhood. This can often lead to subsequent neurotic behavior, and as we frequently hear, suicide.
I would imagine a certain percentage of people join the military because they mysteriously believe that it relieves them of self responsibility and maturing into an adult.
That’s a shame. My Dad did not see combat, fortunately and my nephew was in the honor guard in DC during one of the inaugurations, I believe. He was not in combat either, which I’m grateful.
I had seen it, but then saw it on a video today about various things, the worst was they had the sound of his arm of it actually breaking and did a close up of the lump that had formed on his elbow. Was even worse than watching it the first time.
The German armed forces mutinied in 1918, a fact routinely omitted from history in the West. But that was an extreme situation. US troops rebelled in Vietnam in 1972 or so, a big factor in ending the war. Recently the naval commander in the Caribbean resigned rather than murder civilians.
it appears to be a very fine line that servicemen and women are too vulnerable in their positions, to cross. I agree that they should, but we just saw the whole video regarding former Sgt. McGinnis, and not one ranking member or person in uniform in the chamber looked back. We are sheep, all of us too cowardly to stand up for what we believe in.
Thank you for stating the truth. I feel exactly the same way. We would be murdered by Nazi 'murKKKans for this. The military is a VOLUNTEER organization. CLARITY: Members have agency: RESIGN. Members who CHOOSE to slaughter Iranians?They are terrorists.
US military personnel have sworn an oath to defend the US Constitution and the people of the USA against all enemies both foreign and domestic. They are also obligated to disregard illegal orders/ orders to commit crimes and illegal activities.
War against Iran is illegal until the US Congress authorizes it. Bombing unarmed children is illegal even in the time of war.
During the Civil War the wealthy would pay a man to take their place in the Union army. This “all volunteer army” we have now is the same concept when you get right down to it. The draft can never be reinstated to force the middle or upper classes to participate. No Senator or Congressman who voted to reinstate it would ever last beyond the next election cycle and they know it.
But what can happen is more young people with no future sign up and are told they’re “heroes” so the myth they died for honorable ideals must be constantly emphasized. The middle and upper classes are highly invested in this deception to keep their own kids out of combat.
They definitely did but it was the general population that carried things like anti -war, no to imperialism movements, not the wealthy. The wealthy did their best to stop those movements.
Yes, but they did make a lot of people think if nothing else. If no one ever makes people reflect on what values, or principles they apply in life, just plain made to think, it makes them easy prey for those in control of the power of their country.
Trump has become a prime example of people becoming so dumbed down and single minded.
I haven't really explained what I mean that well, but being the intelligent feline you are, you might be able to get what I mean.
The draft as in conscription? Eliminating the conscription is what killed the anti war movement? Well… kinda, I guess, in the same way that achieving Brexit killed the Brexit campaign. I totally fucking guarantee that reinstating the draft would create a new anti-draft campaign in seconds.
Several countries in Europe have toyed with the idea of reimposing military service or conscription. If they do, they will Find Out big style. The kids will not stand for it and I don’t think their parents will be very impressed either.
Well, I was referring in particular to Britain, where Starmer is rumoured to have considered it several times over the last year. Although your statement has some value to it broadly, specifically I don’t rate his chances if he tries to conscript the young Brits of today.
1. "I used to follow a few pro-Palestine accounts on TikTok and Instagram who sound great when they’re talking about Gaza but suddenly transform into Lindsey Graham whenever they’re talking about Iran."
I suspect that you may also have been following Sunnis who want to use the US as an attack dog in their religious beef.
2. Did Machiavelli not teach us to beware of atrocity tales told by exiles?
Shia and Sunni fought together in Gaza, they are fighting together in Iran, it's easy for anyone, even a a non Muslim to make an account and say they are Sunni or whatever the hell they want to.
The 77th Brigade and Hut Eighteen here in England pay a lot of people to run several accounts each like that.
Military run it and idiots in their bedrooms make a lot of money play acting as a variety of people to bamboozle people reading their comments or watching rigged videos.
Shia are Al Qassam in Gaz, Al Quds are Sunni after a few weeks fought alongside them. They are the two main resistance forces in Gaza. Their Government Hamas consider Al Qassam to be the nearest thing they have to an army.
The Gulfie tyrannies hate the Shia because as a Sunni wrote recently, as Sunni's we count on the Shia protecting us.
The difference lately is that soon after trouble starts, the Sunni grew hair on their chests and chose to fight alongside the Shia, soon the Gulfie will be will hate a large proportion of Sunni too.
Me and my mates, around the turn of the millennium, used to jokingly compare the internet and the pyramids, asking, which is better? Which is a greater wonder? Which is more useful, which does more for humanity?
By this point I think a great big triangle of stone is at the least basically harmless, and it is impressively big.
call me classist, but i don't buy any of the shit of allowed groups, be it nationalities, religions, ethnicities, ..., having the ear of the war-machine. it's the rich sunnis, the rich jews/israelis, the rich europeans, etc ...
I’m not sure who these pro-Palestinians are that support the attack on Iran, but I belong to 3 different pro-Palestine organizations and all of us oppose it. The Democrats who seem to support the war against Iran mainly seem to be pro-Israel.
Yes. They’re not connecting the dots between Israeli fascism in the form of genocide and fascism here in the U.S. They still think that electing genocide supporter Kamala Harris would have saved the U.S. from fascism. They were perfectly willing to sacrifice the Palestinian people in order to save us from Trump. I am hoping that the joint U.S.-Israel illegal war on Iran will help more people connect those dots. Israel is not our friend. You cannot finance genocide and wage war on innocents and not become fascists. Trump is the karma visited on the U.S. by the people here who voted for genocide.
I used to take for granted the images of enlisted men and women who adorn most of our city streets. I even thought they were heroes until it dawned on me it's the ruling classes plan to foster military adulation in our covertly militarized society. It is ingrained in the US to say " thank you for your service" to servicemen even if that service was to commit genocide against a weaker opponent. It is never too late to fight the military worship so prevalent in our society but the degree of brainwashing amongst the public makes it difficult in the extreme.
The sad part is that the American people voted Trump in and he has not delivered for the people but has delivered for friends, family and Trans- National organizations.
This happens when the ruling elite do not listen to the people, this may happen in Australia soon as the the historical ruling parties are not listening to the people.
As we are seeing happen in England at present a step to the right.
He's turned out far worse than I would have imagined at the time. I didn't vote for him but I wasn't under the delusion that supporting the Democratic party was a reasonable choice either - given the corruption that now permeates both political parties. If both parties support Genocide, then both parties have no legitimacy to be in power, and there is no moral basis to accept one party over the other. Genocide is a bridge too far.
It's a betrayal and will not be forgotten or forgiven. It turns out it was all lies and all the promises have vanished. Voters had a hope that finally things could be different. Betrayed again.
Well Patrick, the promises were made a hundred times over and over by him for many years. His VP choice made these promises. Others with him reiterated it. It was a chance to reclaim what most voters wanted and brought Independents in also.
Certainly, nothing would have been different with Harris/Blinken/Sullivan et al. So it was a promise we hoped would be kept. I think it was reasonable to hope, but boy were we wrong. Betrayed on an unimaginable scale...
Most of us understand that a president is not a unilateral policy maker but Trump has grabbed up an extraordinary amount of power to the Executive. Congress is supine. All-in-all it IS the uniparty after all.
The problem is that "people" represent large mass or inertia. It takes humongous forces and moments and long time to change the state for the better. On the other hand, the evil rulers are small mass and small inertia, and they can destroy everything in a heartbeat. Shortly before elections the same rulers will switch the tone (just temporarily) and claim how they are "servants" of the people. In human society large mass (measure of inertia) is called STUPIDITY. It is a sign of how structurally unstable human society is. It takes constant and enormous efforts to keep human society in balance and only few assholes with power to ruin everything.
Principled as always. The US soldiers are the extension of its ruling class armed frontline of imperial powers and we must see it as such, bar nothing.
This comment is textbook ultra-leftist, which usually comes from Trots.
Ultra-leftism is essentially elitism.
The petit bourgeoisie ends up leading alot of social movements because they have privilege themselves; they are literate, educated, and have a modicum of wealth.
This person thinks he knows more than the working class; the only problem is that HE is not in charge.
That is why the working class rejects ultra-left adventurism. Thats why the overwhelming majority of people at ICE protests are petit-bourgeois Wokies.
Is your son enlisted in the military? How about you? Ready to die for corporate genocidal demons? If not, you are just an empty sack idiot. Put some skin in the game, big BOY.
The servicemembers are exploited working class persons and that is the consensus of experienced, educated socialists and anti-imperialists.
Bad-mouthing them only increases the divide.
My father served in WWII, my brother served in Viet Nam. When my brother came back, he became a dedicated anti-imperialist. I did not registered for the draft. I was a 'draft dodger.' I could have gone to federal prison.
As I explained the draft was eliminated so blowhards like you could run your mouth.
Blaming servicemembers for the war is the oldest and dumbest ultra-left error an activist can make.
Participation in genocide is something different from a military career "serving your country", and that is exactly what is happening in Gaza, Iran and the Middle East now. We all have moral responsibility for the work we do and if our work slips into doing great harm in the cause of evil, there is personal responsibility.
Those in the military can claim conscientious objector status and get out of the military and under the current circumstances that is the only moral decision one can make. I know it can be a hard choice to make and citizen groups should help in the transition from crime to civilian life while also pushing to stop the American fascist state from more killing.
We are 1934 Germany and the decisions then are the same now. Trump is looking to nationalize state National Guard units into a national "anti-terrorist" force to brutalize the homeland and the concentration camps are already built -- and, no, they are not just for illegals.
Under the current circumstances, there is no moral ground for being in the US military. If you think there is, explain it to the families of those 175+ little girls (ages 6-12) slaughtered by a US missile launched from the SS Abraham Lincoln on the first day of our latest genocide.
And I, too, Christopher, am of the Vietnam generation. I was lucky enough to have a high number in the first lottery. At the time, if I had been drafted, I would probably have naively been daft enough to go into the military. When the draft is reinstituted for the coming land war the one thing we can be sure of -- the Nepo babies of the wealthy vampire class -- like Barron Trump -- will never have to go.
I understand; every war has genocidal aspects. Sy Hersh revealed the My Lai massacre. My point was blaming the servicemembers was what we used to call a "left error," meaning missing the mark and punching down, which is the essence of elitism.
I get your point but I also took an issue with the claim of 'left' in this piece.
"the real Left" is anti war because only the capitalist class ever calls for war.
Defending your country or exterminate a colonial power to take your destiny as working class in your own hands is no war, it's the only just fight that exist.
There is no 'left' in the USA today, the left has been co-opted and dressed up to become a bunch of identity idiots that serve to atomize society.
People have no clue what political left even means anymore, including Caitlin as it seems to me unfortunately.
What she describes as left in this piece is what we communists despise.
Gee, and all this time I thought Americans were protesting ICE because this new police force is going around in masks - detaining Americans without due process, brutalizing many, including murdering and disappearing ordinary people - and right now, even as I write this, in the process of building concentration camps all over the country. Mea Culpa.
The working class rejects leftism of ALL kinds - because they've been steeped in pro-fascist propaganda their whole lives, certainly since the time of Reagan - and they're more concerned with survival than the realities behind how their meager standard of living is supported. "The Crisis of Democracy", by the Trilateral Commission recommended raising the costs of higher education, and cutting living standards in the 1970's - and it worked, just as they hoped it would.
I don't know which anti-ICE protests you've been going to... But in LA, they're very diverse, economically and in every other way.
The working class as of late correctly rejects the ersatz elitist leftist petit bourgeois tripe which is dumb enough to blame soldiers for the war, akin to blaming pipeline workers for global warming,
It's what Mao called "Left in form, Right in essence."
Blaming soldiers for the war is the dumbest, rookie mistake an anti-war activist can make.
Where do you see this alleged problem occurring? I've never seen that, in all of my years of activism on the left.
As for why Bernie Sanders "lost" - that's because $hillary Clinton is an Agent of the Spook-State - and in 2016 - she and they LITERALLY STOLE the nomination away from him. They would rather lose and make Trump the President, than let an ostensible leftist into office. That's what the polls said would happen - and it did.
He lost in 2020, because the DNCIA orchestrated a less obvious theft (starting with the theft of the Iowa Caucuses, handing them to BootyJudge, fraudulently, with rigged coin tosses and worse). They ran a whole Clown Car of candidates pretending to support Medicare for All, or some variant of socialized medicine, to blunt his polling advantage. They used the black box voting machines to steal 5 percent, in California. https://tdmsresearch.com/2020/03/09/california-2020-democratic-party-primary/
And of course Dick Cheney's CIA cousin, Barack, orchestrated most of the clowns dropping out of the race, en masse, right before super tuesday. The STEAL was baked-in, in 2020, long before they started electronically flipping States for Biden, early on a Wednesday morning in November.
You strike me as someone with an oddly centrist agenda, looking for nonexistent evidence, to justify your confirmation bias.
Since the Russian Revolution, through the Lenin-Trotsky schism, through WWII and the building of the CIO, throughout Viet Nam and to the present day, punching down on soldiers has been the dumbest thing any left-minded, socialist-minded person can do.
The veterans returning from war and their families are the strongest, most credible anti-war voices, and you are insulting them and pissing them off.
That is why you couldn't elect Bernie, couldn't elect other anti-war progressives like Nina Turner and Dennis Kuchinich, can't elect anyone, because you are starting with less than 50% of the field.
Thats why all the analysis up in here is a school lunchroom food-fight like the comment below.
except ms johnstone is not 'punching down on soldiers', imo. do you think that the dead soldiers returning from the war on iran deserve a monument? do you think they're noble and heroic? (are you not punching 'left'?)
Thank you for being more respectful than most of Kaitlin's cohort.
Concerning serious leftists -(although I increasingly.perceive that the terms left and right are a false dichotomy)
Seriously leftists utilize materialist analysis not Good Guy, Bad Guy romanticized bullsh*t, thats the essence of bourgeois analysis..that is about how everyone FEELS about things.
Of course we are outraged and heartbroken. But we dont achieve goals by shifting on half the body politic.
Materialist analysis is pragmatic, and doesnt expect people to never make a mistake. Perhaps the soldiers made one in joining the army, and unquestionably Kaitlin made one undisciplined, emotional mistake in condemning them.
It is rare to hit the bulls-eye - you are always going to miss to the left or right.
A "right error" would be running inside the Democratic Party for example. A left error would be, in addition to blaming servicemembers, some bullshit calling for violence. Something the agent provocateurs always do, thats how you know their cops.
I won't hold a grudge against anyone in here, but I am confident that serious sober analysis will win out over emotional diatribes.
The best leftist practitioner out there right now, BTW, is Kshama Sawant, and you will never ever hear her condemning dead or living servicemembers.
i agree somewhat on your thoughts on 'leftism', but that's already an 'old' issue (i refer to lenin's ''left-wing' communism: an infantile disorder' here, and general 'leftist infighting'. being 'left' is a notion that communists use and lose - to liberals - regularly). i consider myself to be a communist (marxist-leninist) and somewhat hope to sufficiently understand dialectical and historical materialism.
i do not agree that ms johnstone made 'an undisciplined, emotional mistake in condemning them'. in rereading the paragraphs of the first idea, i could not find the condemnation of the soldiers. i read a warning against the way empire recuperates their deaths for its own causes. i do however assert that you made an undisciplined, emotional mistake in doing the thing she was warning against (nationalist tendencies are quite strong in the imperial core, as far as my limited experience goes).
as a marxist-leninst i understand that there is no immediate need to call for violence, as it will be brought upon us (therefor preparing for self-defense seems wise - a well regulated militia if you wish :-), preferably consisting of fired servicemembers who were replaced by a.i. driven drones). at a certain point the ruling class will resort to its favorite tool (which has been perfected during past struggles), violence. (to quote ms sawant: 'obviously, we need a revolution, like the russian revolution, which was the most important progressive event in modern global history. because the capitalists aren’t going to freely hand over the wealth they expropriated from the working class, we’ll need to have a fight.')
ms sawant seems a worthy candidate for now. iirc there are also others in other places that seem genuine enough (e.g. peace and freedom party in california - ramsey robinson, as a contrast i'd even give the acp some credit, more than the cpusa). again, imo nobody was condemning dead or living servicemembers in the article. aaron bushnell can be considered a hero, worthy of a monument, imo, the others ... (including vietnam vets) not so, i'm afraid. i think it's better to help people (soldiers and their families) understand the essence of what ms johnstone argues then to accommodate the false 'patriotism' promoted by the ruling class. their sons didn't die a heroic death, they were murdered / sacrificed by their government / billionaire overlords. they deserve the honesty.
Greater love hath no American solder than to lay down his or her life so that Israel can own and control the entire Middle East - just like God has always intended.
I'm often amazed that so many humans are willing to enter war and lose their lives to war - or even spend their days murdering other human beings.
What will the sacrifice mean to them when they're dead? How do they know for sure there is something better awaiting them in an afterlife? What if there is no afterlife?
You gave up the most precious thing you possess: your own life, in a war that had very little to do with you and your own hopes and dreams. You won't even know once you're dead that you're dead. I'm just amazed people are so ready to walk into the abyss and mystery of death.
jamenta, maybe you remember Bill Clinton in 2nd half on nineties stating openly how he "would take a gun and go to defend (die for) israel". A US president who didn't serve his own country military would go to defend fascist racist illegal genocidal entity hated by 90%+ of humanity. What a POS Bill Clinton and his equally despicable wife always were. Almost all US presidents were traitors and war criminals.
The US military reflex - to bomb poor Latin and middle eastern countries to smithereens and to commit atrocities from the sky - recapitulates the original colonial narrative of the Conquistadors, who used vastly more evolved armaments toward the goal of plunder and genocide. See my pieces, "Sky Wars - The Bombing Industrial Complex of US Terror" and "Gaza is Colonialism on Steroids" - both posted at ZNetwork.
I feel sorry for the soldiers who have been conned into fighting in this war. Maybe they are getting paid, but I doubt that they come from rich families or are rich themselves. And the Iranians who are cheering on the Americans, well, my experience is that nothing seems to divert them away from that thinking. I say remember Iraq, remember Libya, remember Afghanistan and so many more. But I just get blank looks and comments about how awful the Iranian government is. When I say that the US government is at least as bad, I get silence. I am not American, but I would not celebrate someone invading the US with bombs and weapons to "save" the people. It is just a stupid idea. I wish I knew how people could get so stupid.
I think that should be Israelis who are shouting for Iran to be bombed. They've infiltrated every country and pretend to be the indigenous people in an effort to start an uprising. It's what they always do. Zionism is hate, greed and jealousy. Hate for anyone not them. Greed that anyone might have slightly more than them. Jealously when others succeed, without falling for their lies or being under their boot.
USA is billions of times worse than Iran's government. Why si Iran's govt bad? Because it resists attacks of the western rats? It is the constant narrative (smearing, accusing) in the west how Iran is bad. Don't you see how the propaganda works so that people get intimidated and it becomes normal to say that Iran is bad. Iran did not attack anyone in centuries, but the USA spent all its existence in attacking others, plundering, stealing, genociding, etc. It is now since 1950s that "west" is trying to subdue Iran, genocide its people, attack their religion, smear their culture and way of life, and steal resources. Only difference now is that orangegutan Trump is open about it. The curtains are down. The same can be said for the "cultured" EU. You see ONE lie is more powerful than 100 truths/facts. That is why propaganda works with humans.
I’ve always found it both unsettling and amusing to hear Americans, on encountering any current or past military personnel, reflexively bleat “thankyou for your service” in the most reverential of tones.
It’s weird to hear that sort of conditioned response when you come from a country that doesn’t worship its military (outside of the ANZAC and WW mythologising) and where many people have a measure of distrust or distaste for military personnel.
It IS annoying! What's worse is when they say that, and then bleat on about stuff along the lines of what we did in <insert country invaded/attacked by Coalition Forces> was justified, and the 'enemy' is backward, out to kill all of us, and therefore deserved getting slaughtered.
Recently my anxiety level is going thru the roof. My focus is short, my sleeping sporadic, and I'm constantly feeling helpless and depressed. Trump and the wars are preventing me from the many pleasures in life I once enjoyed. I'm constantly trying to stay on top of current events. Reading folks like you and many others help center me with rational empathetic knowledge of what's really going on and why. What to do Caitlin. I can't not stay involved but staying involved has put my anxiety thru the roof.
Oh, I just saw your post— after I posted the Smedley Butler quote in response to a poster above. Sorry to repeat. With all the indoctrination, sometimes reality comes with personal experience. Where I live, veterans organized some of the most effective protests against the genocide in Gaza — and against Trump in general.
He did. But like so many others he waited until his career was over - a highly decorated career at that - and so faced no real consequences for speaking out.
Those were my exact thoughts about him and I had to decide if he was genuine or was doing one last job. In the end I decided that it wasn't until leaving his career, he could think through all he had done clearly.
Like dumbed down by all the military jargon until away from it he could see how terrible it all was. I don't know if that makes sense to you but it was the conclusion I arrived at.
Yes he mentioned it. I doubt though he realised even when higher ranked, just how controlled the military had become and he would have been under that control as much as anyone else.
I'm reminded of the young Russians who wanted the fall of the Soviet Union, believing that everyone in capitalist countries owned a Ferrari, and found themselves faced with a Yeltsin who sold off Russia's natural resources to a few oligarchs financed by the Rothschilds, leading the Russian people to starvation for ten years. Or, even earlier, the young Germans who believed in the Third Reich... There's something worse than indifference, and that's fideism in propaganda.
The “Iranian” reported on CNN was likely a CIA-Mossad cutout. We in the USA live in a mass propaganda media world. For a reality check, go to Judging Freedom.com, The Gray Zone.com and Dialogue Works.org., Consortium News.com.
About time our military make a stand and say no more.
But like the politicians, this is where their checks come from.
How unfortunate.
Aaron Bushnell took an extremely self-sacrificing stand. The least the rest of them could do is to refuse service.
Refuse to obey unlawful orders. The “I was just following orders” imho should not apply when it comes to murdering women and kids. It was done by U.S. troops in Vietnam also, I’m afraid(the murdering of civilians).
Hi Smokey
I’ve related this story before. A classmate of my husband was under the command of Lt. Wm. Calley at the My Lai massacre. When ordered to shoot civilians, K fired once then laid down his firearm. He was court-marshaled for REFUSING TO MURDER UNARMED CIVILIANS.
K was later exonerated but the incident had an enormously negative impact on his life.
The impact would have been far greater had he followed orders to kill innocent fellow human beings. War has an enormously negative impact on everything and everyone. Thanks for your comment sister.
Yes I have heard of that horrible atrocity that took place in Vietnam. He was right to refuse to carry out that order and instead of a court marshal he should have got a Medal of Honor.
Rest In Power Aaron Bushnell
Indeed he did, may he rest in peace. Refusing service would be relatively simple by comparison to the extremely strong stance he took
If the military does nothing else, it trains personnel to obey without question.
Well yeah. Pretty much the only way an effective military can act. When you're in battle, you have people giving orders to other human beings that can and often does lead to their deaths. Sometimes military orders sacrifice one unit, to reach a tactical goal, or to save another more important military unit from harm. When people's lives are being sacrificed every day, you can't have the grunts questioning their orders and not obeying them. It has to be drilled into them to follow orders, even to their own deaths. That's what war is made up of, constant death, constant murdering - blood everywhere, including those you just woke up with the other day. No way a military order can be up for a vote.
Should this country ever get the chance to have the reality of it even roughly approximate its ideals, before time runs out (doubtful), one thing I’d want to see is that its military officer corps and its recruits be schooled in the “duty to disobey” doctrine found in both the UCMJ and in the Nuremberg Principles. This country’s history of war crimes necessitates that. This would put everyone – particularly the politicians, who get us into wars – on alert that “what you say ain’t necessarily so,” and therefore is no basis for a) putting oneself at unwarranted risk, and b) putting others at unwarranted risk.
Colin Powell, as both ex-military and high government official at the time, could have averted a catastrophe reverberating to this day had he recited Steely Dan to George, Dick, Don, Paul, Condoleezza, Scooter and a bunch of others:
I'm a fool to do your dirty work, oh yeah
I don't wanna do your dirty work no more
I'm a fool to do your dirty work, oh yeah
In other words, and referring to a not very good movie from 1970 but whose title I like, “Suppose They Gave a War and Nobody Came?” What’s the harm in that, except to some Right wing ideologues, imperialists, and capitalists... and oh, Zionists?
They do receive training in the duty to disobey, but this is in the nature of a moral figleaf.
So in other words, "Okay, that box checked, now get on with loading that 2,000 lb. bunker buster, intel tells us we got a school to hit where Israel tells us terrorists are hiding out," do I have that right?
Sounds about right to me, same goes for military here in the UK.
That is correct. The Indoctrination is powerful .
Yes.
Also, nazis were "good" soldiers obeying orders. It is in german genes. Never question authority no matter how wrong it is. There is no difference between german supremacist nazis, US fascist exceptionalist, and zionist talmudist israelis.
"There is no difference between german supremacist nazis, US fascist exceptionalist, and zionist talmudist israelis."
I guess only the uniforms they wear and the warped ideology and propaganda they follow.
Europeans in general are the most authority-trusting, rule-following, sheep on the planet.
War itself is a crime against humanity. It's a crime committed because of the utter, forever stupidity of humankind. Of misguided people neurotically in the grasp of unconscious power complexes, who lack the empathy required to perceive the path of endless blood that inevitably becomes their legacy. Of 20+ year olds who are unable to think for themselves, and fall for the lies told to them - lies as old as ancient Rome and Nero's fiddle.
You're prompting me to reread Chris Hedges' "War is a Force That Gives Us Meaning." Very unsettling first time around, maybe more so the second.
Scooter? Where do scooter come into it?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cbB3iGRHtqA
Scooter Libby. Sorry, don't get the video.
It’s a band. Called scooter. They make silly cheesy techno and are not involved in the war in Iran in any way as far as I can tell. Sorry, this was a joke.
It is apparently quite legal for soldiers not to "follow" orders if they are not humane, or illegal. Right now the war on Iran is not legal, drumpf did not go through congress, he is not a king with sole rule, he is a president-who may have become president by tech cheating-therefore would have no right at all to declare war on a non-aggresive country that has not fired, or threatened to fire missiles at the US. This illegal war is about oil, find out how much drumpf, and his family are invested in oil.
Israel is out to take over the whole ME as step one to world domination. The carnage and death they are causing could all be stopped with two bullets.
This tripe about Jesus anointing drumpf is the most ridiculous stupidity ever to come out of the mouths of grown adults. As if Jesus would even look at a paedophile to run a business let alone anointing drumpf as his anything. That is desperation to pretend something that is so far from any possible truth, it's hysterical. Are these people hypnotised that they let such nonsense come out of their mouths, especially to soldiers they are sending to their deaths, all because some evangelicals are desperate for the "end times". If they are so eager, give them rifles and send them instead of young men who haven't asked for this, and only joined the military to get an education and get a good job at the end of the time they signed up for.
When the end times come all of you barracking for war against countries that did not threaten you - you are not going to be lifted up, no way, definitely not. You are the ones that will be left behind to suffer what you called for on these other countries - barren wasteland, burning air in places, hell on earth.
Hospitaller: I put no stock in religion. By the word religion I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called the will of God. Holiness is in right action and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves, and goodness. What God desires is here
[points to head]
Hospitaller: and here
[points to heart]
Hospitaller: and what you decide to do every day, you will be a good man - or not.
~Kingdom of Heaven, Ridley Scott
It matters not, Jamenta, it's these religious fanatics that are stirring up these wars, and now the military NCOs and above are involving themselves in this madness.
"The great world, the background, in all of us, is the world of our beliefs. This is the world of the permanencies and the immensities."
~William James, 'To Helen Keller', December 17, 1908
There is no such thing as illegal and/or inhumane for US, german or israel leaders. And 99% of their coward soldiers will obey every single time. Ever heard of manifest destiny - a racist fascist ideology a foundation of depraved and criminal US.
How is it a war? It is an act of aggression against Iran so they have every right to disobey.
Not arguing that. The result, however is automatons.
Yes. Carl Jung wrote somewhere that many remain psychological children - since they derive strength and identity from being part of collective hive mind thinking - become automatons that fail to individuate their own selfhood. This can often lead to subsequent neurotic behavior, and as we frequently hear, suicide.
Years ago, I knew a human woman who had been career enlisted in army intelligence.
She said, to paraphrase, a lot of the enlisted were in the (pre-9/11) military because they liked having someone else tell them what to do.
She had a lot of insights.
I would imagine a certain percentage of people join the military because they mysteriously believe that it relieves them of self responsibility and maturing into an adult.
And PTSD or what used to be called shell shock.😢
except for the class war, then you get people yapping 'but, but,... authoritarianism...'.
there was THIS ONE, now prosecuted..:
https://rumble.com/v76nh4w-marine-sgt.-arm-broken-by-senator-sheehy-for-protesting-israel-no-one-wants.html
Yeah I saw that video and it was awful. My dad, who is now deceased, and my nephew were both in the Marines.
I never met ANY of both my grandfathers, all 'thanks' to wars...
That’s a shame. My Dad did not see combat, fortunately and my nephew was in the honor guard in DC during one of the inaugurations, I believe. He was not in combat either, which I’m grateful.
I had seen it, but then saw it on a video today about various things, the worst was they had the sound of his arm of it actually breaking and did a close up of the lump that had formed on his elbow. Was even worse than watching it the first time.
The German armed forces mutinied in 1918, a fact routinely omitted from history in the West. But that was an extreme situation. US troops rebelled in Vietnam in 1972 or so, a big factor in ending the war. Recently the naval commander in the Caribbean resigned rather than murder civilians.
Meanwhile, I see that the Americans and Israelis are attacking desalination plants.
Perhaps we begin by not glorifying the idea of military service, and stop sending our children into it.
Great idea ! Put into practice this country would look very different - Imagine.
I think that's a very reasonable idea, may it be so
For my money, this was not approved by Congress, and is, therefore, illegitimate.
That alone would be reason enough to disobey orders.
it appears to be a very fine line that servicemen and women are too vulnerable in their positions, to cross. I agree that they should, but we just saw the whole video regarding former Sgt. McGinnis, and not one ranking member or person in uniform in the chamber looked back. We are sheep, all of us too cowardly to stand up for what we believe in.
Thank you for stating the truth. I feel exactly the same way. We would be murdered by Nazi 'murKKKans for this. The military is a VOLUNTEER organization. CLARITY: Members have agency: RESIGN. Members who CHOOSE to slaughter Iranians?They are terrorists.
US military personnel have sworn an oath to defend the US Constitution and the people of the USA against all enemies both foreign and domestic. They are also obligated to disregard illegal orders/ orders to commit crimes and illegal activities.
War against Iran is illegal until the US Congress authorizes it. Bombing unarmed children is illegal even in the time of war.
Law is meaningless. Enforcement is the only thing that matters.
Might makes right.
Unfortunately. The question is what one does with one's might.
Thats why Dick Cheney got rid of the draft, so you can run your mouth without risk or taking responsibility.
Pretty obvious, huh?
Eliminating the draft is what killed the anti-war, anti-imperialist movement.
You don't think the wealthy didn't have ten ways from Sunday to get out of the draft? Talk about naive.
During the Civil War the wealthy would pay a man to take their place in the Union army. This “all volunteer army” we have now is the same concept when you get right down to it. The draft can never be reinstated to force the middle or upper classes to participate. No Senator or Congressman who voted to reinstate it would ever last beyond the next election cycle and they know it.
But what can happen is more young people with no future sign up and are told they’re “heroes” so the myth they died for honorable ideals must be constantly emphasized. The middle and upper classes are highly invested in this deception to keep their own kids out of combat.
Paz: [to Jason Bourne] Why didn't you take the shot?
Jason Bourne: Do you even know why you're supposed to kill me? Look at us. Look at what they make you give.
They definitely did but it was the general population that carried things like anti -war, no to imperialism movements, not the wealthy. The wealthy did their best to stop those movements.
What stopped the war was not the protests but the breakdown in discipline among line troops in Vietnam, with those breakdowns starting to spread.
Yes, but they did make a lot of people think if nothing else. If no one ever makes people reflect on what values, or principles they apply in life, just plain made to think, it makes them easy prey for those in control of the power of their country.
Trump has become a prime example of people becoming so dumbed down and single minded.
I haven't really explained what I mean that well, but being the intelligent feline you are, you might be able to get what I mean.
Not arguing the actual or perceived value of consciousness raising or second order effects. Only direct, material concrete results.
Edit: I should have added that Trump is a semiliterate moron for the same reason a mafia boss is - he doesn't have to be smart, only ruthless.
The draft as in conscription? Eliminating the conscription is what killed the anti war movement? Well… kinda, I guess, in the same way that achieving Brexit killed the Brexit campaign. I totally fucking guarantee that reinstating the draft would create a new anti-draft campaign in seconds.
Several countries in Europe have toyed with the idea of reimposing military service or conscription. If they do, they will Find Out big style. The kids will not stand for it and I don’t think their parents will be very impressed either.
Europeans are used to being herded. They like it.
I don't.
Perhaps you are a cat.
Just let me stretch myself lazily while I think about it, quick scratch behind my ear.
You may be right!
Well, I was referring in particular to Britain, where Starmer is rumoured to have considered it several times over the last year. Although your statement has some value to it broadly, specifically I don’t rate his chances if he tries to conscript the young Brits of today.
Not ‘Nazis’. Genocidal Talmudists & their Evangelical Zionists side - kicks.
I said what I said.
Fuck isreal & all its whores.
1. "I used to follow a few pro-Palestine accounts on TikTok and Instagram who sound great when they’re talking about Gaza but suddenly transform into Lindsey Graham whenever they’re talking about Iran."
I suspect that you may also have been following Sunnis who want to use the US as an attack dog in their religious beef.
2. Did Machiavelli not teach us to beware of atrocity tales told by exiles?
Shia and Sunni fought together in Gaza, they are fighting together in Iran, it's easy for anyone, even a a non Muslim to make an account and say they are Sunni or whatever the hell they want to.
The 77th Brigade and Hut Eighteen here in England pay a lot of people to run several accounts each like that.
Military run it and idiots in their bedrooms make a lot of money play acting as a variety of people to bamboozle people reading their comments or watching rigged videos.
True, although the Gulfie tyrannies sure spend a lot of time and energy hating the Shia.
I doubt the trolls you reference are going to be pro Palestine or Hamas.
Fyi, I think you meant "Syria". There are almost no Shia in Gaza.
Shia are Al Qassam in Gaz, Al Quds are Sunni after a few weeks fought alongside them. They are the two main resistance forces in Gaza. Their Government Hamas consider Al Qassam to be the nearest thing they have to an army.
Gaza not Gaz.
The Gulfie tyrannies hate the Shia because as a Sunni wrote recently, as Sunni's we count on the Shia protecting us.
The difference lately is that soon after trouble starts, the Sunni grew hair on their chests and chose to fight alongside the Shia, soon the Gulfie will be will hate a large proportion of Sunni too.
The trolls are against anything someone supports.
Never anything like the Shia as protection. That was traditionally the Turks.
The Gulfies already hate the Shia plenty, as they see them as borderline apostates.
And the trolls I see have a definite ideological slant. You know "I am Syrian lesbian pkease bombs us mister president Trump" sort of thing.
😱😆🤣 Remind me to avoid Syrian lesbians. 😂
The much celebrated "Gay Girl I Syria".blog turned out to be the handiwork of a thirty-something scots dude.
You don't know what you're missing.
Me and my mates, around the turn of the millennium, used to jokingly compare the internet and the pyramids, asking, which is better? Which is a greater wonder? Which is more useful, which does more for humanity?
By this point I think a great big triangle of stone is at the least basically harmless, and it is impressively big.
You mean the Tower of Google?
I agree.
'poor essentially good and righteous america being duped into doing the evil foreigners bidding', yeah right.
I think you may be arguing with points I wasn't making.
i don't think it's sunnis (iran) or europeans (ukraine) triggering or pointing the us war machine. i think it's the rich and powerful.
Call it a symbiotic relationship, a mutually beneficial joint venture of sorts.
call me classist, but i don't buy any of the shit of allowed groups, be it nationalities, religions, ethnicities, ..., having the ear of the war-machine. it's the rich sunnis, the rich jews/israelis, the rich europeans, etc ...
The two are not mutually exclusive, although the Iran War does not seem to have the same manufactured consent that past wars have featured.
Even the WSJ and CNN were last week publishing stories critical of the war. One cldoesn't see similar criticism of The War On Russia.
American soldiers should turn their guns towards DC to save America and humanity.
I’m not sure who these pro-Palestinians are that support the attack on Iran, but I belong to 3 different pro-Palestine organizations and all of us oppose it. The Democrats who seem to support the war against Iran mainly seem to be pro-Israel.
Yes. They’re not connecting the dots between Israeli fascism in the form of genocide and fascism here in the U.S. They still think that electing genocide supporter Kamala Harris would have saved the U.S. from fascism. They were perfectly willing to sacrifice the Palestinian people in order to save us from Trump. I am hoping that the joint U.S.-Israel illegal war on Iran will help more people connect those dots. Israel is not our friend. You cannot finance genocide and wage war on innocents and not become fascists. Trump is the karma visited on the U.S. by the people here who voted for genocide.
I used to take for granted the images of enlisted men and women who adorn most of our city streets. I even thought they were heroes until it dawned on me it's the ruling classes plan to foster military adulation in our covertly militarized society. It is ingrained in the US to say " thank you for your service" to servicemen even if that service was to commit genocide against a weaker opponent. It is never too late to fight the military worship so prevalent in our society but the degree of brainwashing amongst the public makes it difficult in the extreme.
The sad part is that the American people voted Trump in and he has not delivered for the people but has delivered for friends, family and Trans- National organizations.
This happens when the ruling elite do not listen to the people, this may happen in Australia soon as the the historical ruling parties are not listening to the people.
As we are seeing happen in England at present a step to the right.
He's turned out far worse than I would have imagined at the time. I didn't vote for him but I wasn't under the delusion that supporting the Democratic party was a reasonable choice either - given the corruption that now permeates both political parties. If both parties support Genocide, then both parties have no legitimacy to be in power, and there is no moral basis to accept one party over the other. Genocide is a bridge too far.
That was my bridge. I voted “uncommitted,” in solidarity with those who saw genocide as a bridge too far.
💯👍👏🙏☮️🕊️
The Uniparty is how the pathocracy cements its subterfuge, and control.
It's a betrayal and will not be forgotten or forgiven. It turns out it was all lies and all the promises have vanished. Voters had a hope that finally things could be different. Betrayed again.
I didn't believe a word he said. But I didn't expect Hitler.
Well Patrick, the promises were made a hundred times over and over by him for many years. His VP choice made these promises. Others with him reiterated it. It was a chance to reclaim what most voters wanted and brought Independents in also.
Certainly, nothing would have been different with Harris/Blinken/Sullivan et al. So it was a promise we hoped would be kept. I think it was reasonable to hope, but boy were we wrong. Betrayed on an unimaginable scale...
Most of us understand that a president is not a unilateral policy maker but Trump has grabbed up an extraordinary amount of power to the Executive. Congress is supine. All-in-all it IS the uniparty after all.
Where to from here in the burning question.
The problem is that "people" represent large mass or inertia. It takes humongous forces and moments and long time to change the state for the better. On the other hand, the evil rulers are small mass and small inertia, and they can destroy everything in a heartbeat. Shortly before elections the same rulers will switch the tone (just temporarily) and claim how they are "servants" of the people. In human society large mass (measure of inertia) is called STUPIDITY. It is a sign of how structurally unstable human society is. It takes constant and enormous efforts to keep human society in balance and only few assholes with power to ruin everything.
Principled as always. The US soldiers are the extension of its ruling class armed frontline of imperial powers and we must see it as such, bar nothing.
This comment is textbook ultra-leftist, which usually comes from Trots.
Ultra-leftism is essentially elitism.
The petit bourgeoisie ends up leading alot of social movements because they have privilege themselves; they are literate, educated, and have a modicum of wealth.
This person thinks he knows more than the working class; the only problem is that HE is not in charge.
That is why the working class rejects ultra-left adventurism. Thats why the overwhelming majority of people at ICE protests are petit-bourgeois Wokies.
Is your son enlisted in the military? How about you? Ready to die for corporate genocidal demons? If not, you are just an empty sack idiot. Put some skin in the game, big BOY.
[I was here when you got here]
The servicemembers are exploited working class persons and that is the consensus of experienced, educated socialists and anti-imperialists.
Bad-mouthing them only increases the divide.
My father served in WWII, my brother served in Viet Nam. When my brother came back, he became a dedicated anti-imperialist. I did not registered for the draft. I was a 'draft dodger.' I could have gone to federal prison.
As I explained the draft was eliminated so blowhards like you could run your mouth.
Blaming servicemembers for the war is the oldest and dumbest ultra-left error an activist can make.
Participation in genocide is something different from a military career "serving your country", and that is exactly what is happening in Gaza, Iran and the Middle East now. We all have moral responsibility for the work we do and if our work slips into doing great harm in the cause of evil, there is personal responsibility.
Those in the military can claim conscientious objector status and get out of the military and under the current circumstances that is the only moral decision one can make. I know it can be a hard choice to make and citizen groups should help in the transition from crime to civilian life while also pushing to stop the American fascist state from more killing.
We are 1934 Germany and the decisions then are the same now. Trump is looking to nationalize state National Guard units into a national "anti-terrorist" force to brutalize the homeland and the concentration camps are already built -- and, no, they are not just for illegals.
Under the current circumstances, there is no moral ground for being in the US military. If you think there is, explain it to the families of those 175+ little girls (ages 6-12) slaughtered by a US missile launched from the SS Abraham Lincoln on the first day of our latest genocide.
And I, too, Christopher, am of the Vietnam generation. I was lucky enough to have a high number in the first lottery. At the time, if I had been drafted, I would probably have naively been daft enough to go into the military. When the draft is reinstituted for the coming land war the one thing we can be sure of -- the Nepo babies of the wealthy vampire class -- like Barron Trump -- will never have to go.
I understand; every war has genocidal aspects. Sy Hersh revealed the My Lai massacre. My point was blaming the servicemembers was what we used to call a "left error," meaning missing the mark and punching down, which is the essence of elitism.
Peace.
So the service members should not be accountable at all? The men who did the actual shooting and killing, are not responsible at all for their acts?
Seems like an easy cop out.
Funny how conservatives are all “people are responsible for their actions” until it’s them.
Guess I would have been an empty sack idiot then.
https://youtu.be/mVXYH9tRknc?si=TNHY_nPcqr77_mj5
Listen, again, and see if you get it.
I get your point but I also took an issue with the claim of 'left' in this piece.
"the real Left" is anti war because only the capitalist class ever calls for war.
Defending your country or exterminate a colonial power to take your destiny as working class in your own hands is no war, it's the only just fight that exist.
There is no 'left' in the USA today, the left has been co-opted and dressed up to become a bunch of identity idiots that serve to atomize society.
People have no clue what political left even means anymore, including Caitlin as it seems to me unfortunately.
What she describes as left in this piece is what we communists despise.
US "left" is considered right-wing everywhere else.
Gee, and all this time I thought Americans were protesting ICE because this new police force is going around in masks - detaining Americans without due process, brutalizing many, including murdering and disappearing ordinary people - and right now, even as I write this, in the process of building concentration camps all over the country. Mea Culpa.
And all along it was the working class rejecting ultra-left adventurism.
The working class rejects leftism of ALL kinds - because they've been steeped in pro-fascist propaganda their whole lives, certainly since the time of Reagan - and they're more concerned with survival than the realities behind how their meager standard of living is supported. "The Crisis of Democracy", by the Trilateral Commission recommended raising the costs of higher education, and cutting living standards in the 1970's - and it worked, just as they hoped it would.
I don't know which anti-ICE protests you've been going to... But in LA, they're very diverse, economically and in every other way.
The working class as of late correctly rejects the ersatz elitist leftist petit bourgeois tripe which is dumb enough to blame soldiers for the war, akin to blaming pipeline workers for global warming,
It's what Mao called "Left in form, Right in essence."
Blaming soldiers for the war is the dumbest, rookie mistake an anti-war activist can make.
https://youtube.com/shorts/kZi7s7mAHQM
No evidence of what you're describing, here.
Where do you see this alleged problem occurring? I've never seen that, in all of my years of activism on the left.
As for why Bernie Sanders "lost" - that's because $hillary Clinton is an Agent of the Spook-State - and in 2016 - she and they LITERALLY STOLE the nomination away from him. They would rather lose and make Trump the President, than let an ostensible leftist into office. That's what the polls said would happen - and it did.
He lost in 2020, because the DNCIA orchestrated a less obvious theft (starting with the theft of the Iowa Caucuses, handing them to BootyJudge, fraudulently, with rigged coin tosses and worse). They ran a whole Clown Car of candidates pretending to support Medicare for All, or some variant of socialized medicine, to blunt his polling advantage. They used the black box voting machines to steal 5 percent, in California. https://tdmsresearch.com/2020/03/09/california-2020-democratic-party-primary/
And of course Dick Cheney's CIA cousin, Barack, orchestrated most of the clowns dropping out of the race, en masse, right before super tuesday. The STEAL was baked-in, in 2020, long before they started electronically flipping States for Biden, early on a Wednesday morning in November.
You strike me as someone with an oddly centrist agenda, looking for nonexistent evidence, to justify your confirmation bias.
this comment is textbook somewhat educated nazi?
Since the Russian Revolution, through the Lenin-Trotsky schism, through WWII and the building of the CIO, throughout Viet Nam and to the present day, punching down on soldiers has been the dumbest thing any left-minded, socialist-minded person can do.
The veterans returning from war and their families are the strongest, most credible anti-war voices, and you are insulting them and pissing them off.
That is why you couldn't elect Bernie, couldn't elect other anti-war progressives like Nina Turner and Dennis Kuchinich, can't elect anyone, because you are starting with less than 50% of the field.
Thats why all the analysis up in here is a school lunchroom food-fight like the comment below.
https://youtu.be/mVXYH9tRknc?si=sAevnOdrWjXxDKBm
[See Mike Prysner actually doing something about war, besides being a petulant little bitch.]
except ms johnstone is not 'punching down on soldiers', imo. do you think that the dead soldiers returning from the war on iran deserve a monument? do you think they're noble and heroic? (are you not punching 'left'?)
Thank you for being more respectful than most of Kaitlin's cohort.
Concerning serious leftists -(although I increasingly.perceive that the terms left and right are a false dichotomy)
Seriously leftists utilize materialist analysis not Good Guy, Bad Guy romanticized bullsh*t, thats the essence of bourgeois analysis..that is about how everyone FEELS about things.
Of course we are outraged and heartbroken. But we dont achieve goals by shifting on half the body politic.
Materialist analysis is pragmatic, and doesnt expect people to never make a mistake. Perhaps the soldiers made one in joining the army, and unquestionably Kaitlin made one undisciplined, emotional mistake in condemning them.
It is rare to hit the bulls-eye - you are always going to miss to the left or right.
A "right error" would be running inside the Democratic Party for example. A left error would be, in addition to blaming servicemembers, some bullshit calling for violence. Something the agent provocateurs always do, thats how you know their cops.
I won't hold a grudge against anyone in here, but I am confident that serious sober analysis will win out over emotional diatribes.
The best leftist practitioner out there right now, BTW, is Kshama Sawant, and you will never ever hear her condemning dead or living servicemembers.
i agree somewhat on your thoughts on 'leftism', but that's already an 'old' issue (i refer to lenin's ''left-wing' communism: an infantile disorder' here, and general 'leftist infighting'. being 'left' is a notion that communists use and lose - to liberals - regularly). i consider myself to be a communist (marxist-leninist) and somewhat hope to sufficiently understand dialectical and historical materialism.
i do not agree that ms johnstone made 'an undisciplined, emotional mistake in condemning them'. in rereading the paragraphs of the first idea, i could not find the condemnation of the soldiers. i read a warning against the way empire recuperates their deaths for its own causes. i do however assert that you made an undisciplined, emotional mistake in doing the thing she was warning against (nationalist tendencies are quite strong in the imperial core, as far as my limited experience goes).
as a marxist-leninst i understand that there is no immediate need to call for violence, as it will be brought upon us (therefor preparing for self-defense seems wise - a well regulated militia if you wish :-), preferably consisting of fired servicemembers who were replaced by a.i. driven drones). at a certain point the ruling class will resort to its favorite tool (which has been perfected during past struggles), violence. (to quote ms sawant: 'obviously, we need a revolution, like the russian revolution, which was the most important progressive event in modern global history. because the capitalists aren’t going to freely hand over the wealth they expropriated from the working class, we’ll need to have a fight.')
ms sawant seems a worthy candidate for now. iirc there are also others in other places that seem genuine enough (e.g. peace and freedom party in california - ramsey robinson, as a contrast i'd even give the acp some credit, more than the cpusa). again, imo nobody was condemning dead or living servicemembers in the article. aaron bushnell can be considered a hero, worthy of a monument, imo, the others ... (including vietnam vets) not so, i'm afraid. i think it's better to help people (soldiers and their families) understand the essence of what ms johnstone argues then to accommodate the false 'patriotism' promoted by the ruling class. their sons didn't die a heroic death, they were murdered / sacrificed by their government / billionaire overlords. they deserve the honesty.
https://medium.com/@ruthannoskolkoff/party-insiders-talk-cheating-rigging-and-smearing-517601f1d9bb
Fuck off, spamface
Greater love hath no American solder than to lay down his or her life so that Israel can own and control the entire Middle East - just like God has always intended.
I'm often amazed that so many humans are willing to enter war and lose their lives to war - or even spend their days murdering other human beings.
What will the sacrifice mean to them when they're dead? How do they know for sure there is something better awaiting them in an afterlife? What if there is no afterlife?
You gave up the most precious thing you possess: your own life, in a war that had very little to do with you and your own hopes and dreams. You won't even know once you're dead that you're dead. I'm just amazed people are so ready to walk into the abyss and mystery of death.
jamenta, maybe you remember Bill Clinton in 2nd half on nineties stating openly how he "would take a gun and go to defend (die for) israel". A US president who didn't serve his own country military would go to defend fascist racist illegal genocidal entity hated by 90%+ of humanity. What a POS Bill Clinton and his equally despicable wife always were. Almost all US presidents were traitors and war criminals.
True. And now it is also turning out the EU is just as bloodthirsty. Maybe we really are heading for World War III Nick.
The US military reflex - to bomb poor Latin and middle eastern countries to smithereens and to commit atrocities from the sky - recapitulates the original colonial narrative of the Conquistadors, who used vastly more evolved armaments toward the goal of plunder and genocide. See my pieces, "Sky Wars - The Bombing Industrial Complex of US Terror" and "Gaza is Colonialism on Steroids" - both posted at ZNetwork.
I feel sorry for the soldiers who have been conned into fighting in this war. Maybe they are getting paid, but I doubt that they come from rich families or are rich themselves. And the Iranians who are cheering on the Americans, well, my experience is that nothing seems to divert them away from that thinking. I say remember Iraq, remember Libya, remember Afghanistan and so many more. But I just get blank looks and comments about how awful the Iranian government is. When I say that the US government is at least as bad, I get silence. I am not American, but I would not celebrate someone invading the US with bombs and weapons to "save" the people. It is just a stupid idea. I wish I knew how people could get so stupid.
I think that should be Israelis who are shouting for Iran to be bombed. They've infiltrated every country and pretend to be the indigenous people in an effort to start an uprising. It's what they always do. Zionism is hate, greed and jealousy. Hate for anyone not them. Greed that anyone might have slightly more than them. Jealously when others succeed, without falling for their lies or being under their boot.
USA is billions of times worse than Iran's government. Why si Iran's govt bad? Because it resists attacks of the western rats? It is the constant narrative (smearing, accusing) in the west how Iran is bad. Don't you see how the propaganda works so that people get intimidated and it becomes normal to say that Iran is bad. Iran did not attack anyone in centuries, but the USA spent all its existence in attacking others, plundering, stealing, genociding, etc. It is now since 1950s that "west" is trying to subdue Iran, genocide its people, attack their religion, smear their culture and way of life, and steal resources. Only difference now is that orangegutan Trump is open about it. The curtains are down. The same can be said for the "cultured" EU. You see ONE lie is more powerful than 100 truths/facts. That is why propaganda works with humans.
Iran has mucho oil.
They were very open about attacking Venezuela for its oil so I can't figure out why they are mum about it now.
I’ve always found it both unsettling and amusing to hear Americans, on encountering any current or past military personnel, reflexively bleat “thankyou for your service” in the most reverential of tones.
It’s weird to hear that sort of conditioned response when you come from a country that doesn’t worship its military (outside of the ANZAC and WW mythologising) and where many people have a measure of distrust or distaste for military personnel.
It IS annoying! What's worse is when they say that, and then bleat on about stuff along the lines of what we did in <insert country invaded/attacked by Coalition Forces> was justified, and the 'enemy' is backward, out to kill all of us, and therefore deserved getting slaughtered.
That's a good point, I have never heard it here or in any other country, yet in the USA, it's prevalent.
Because USA is a country of boot lickers worshipping pedophiles and supremacists.
Lovely 🤢
You're not wrong.
Caitlin
Recently my anxiety level is going thru the roof. My focus is short, my sleeping sporadic, and I'm constantly feeling helpless and depressed. Trump and the wars are preventing me from the many pleasures in life I once enjoyed. I'm constantly trying to stay on top of current events. Reading folks like you and many others help center me with rational empathetic knowledge of what's really going on and why. What to do Caitlin. I can't not stay involved but staying involved has put my anxiety thru the roof.
Lol peace
War for the benefit of the oligarchs is how it's always been. Smedley Butler said it well in his short book 'War is a Racket'
Well worth a read
https://www.heritage-history.com/site/hclass/secret_societies/ebooks/pdf/butler_racket.pdf
Oh, I just saw your post— after I posted the Smedley Butler quote in response to a poster above. Sorry to repeat. With all the indoctrination, sometimes reality comes with personal experience. Where I live, veterans organized some of the most effective protests against the genocide in Gaza — and against Trump in general.
Great book. He finally got it.
He did. But like so many others he waited until his career was over - a highly decorated career at that - and so faced no real consequences for speaking out.
✌️
Those were my exact thoughts about him and I had to decide if he was genuine or was doing one last job. In the end I decided that it wasn't until leaving his career, he could think through all he had done clearly.
Like dumbed down by all the military jargon until away from it he could see how terrible it all was. I don't know if that makes sense to you but it was the conclusion I arrived at.
He said he suspected it during his career but became certain once he left.
My gut feel - he was probably sure towards the end of his career at least.
He still spoke out I guess, and I'm sure it's easier to think clearly away from the indoctrination.
✌️
Yes he mentioned it. I doubt though he realised even when higher ranked, just how controlled the military had become and he would have been under that control as much as anyone else.
We all make our choices
I'm reminded of the young Russians who wanted the fall of the Soviet Union, believing that everyone in capitalist countries owned a Ferrari, and found themselves faced with a Yeltsin who sold off Russia's natural resources to a few oligarchs financed by the Rothschilds, leading the Russian people to starvation for ten years. Or, even earlier, the young Germans who believed in the Third Reich... There's something worse than indifference, and that's fideism in propaganda.
100%
The “Iranian” reported on CNN was likely a CIA-Mossad cutout. We in the USA live in a mass propaganda media world. For a reality check, go to Judging Freedom.com, The Gray Zone.com and Dialogue Works.org., Consortium News.com.