Refuse to obey unlawful orders. The “I was just following orders” imho should not apply when it comes to murdering women and kids. It was done by U.S. troops in Vietnam also, I’m afraid(the murdering of civilians).
Well yeah. Pretty much the only way an effective military can act. When you're in battle, you have people giving orders to other human beings that can and often does lead to their deaths. Sometimes military orders sacrifice one unit, to reach a tactical goal, or to save another more important military unit from harm. When people's lives are being sacrificed every day, you can't have the grunts questioning their orders and not obeying them. It has to be drilled into them to follow orders, even to their own deaths. That's what war is made up of, constant death, constant murdering - blood everywhere, including those you just woke up with the other day. No way a military order can be up for a vote.
Should this country ever get the chance to have the reality of it even roughly approximate its ideals, before time runs out (doubtful), one thing I’d want to see is that its military officer corps and its recruits be schooled in the “duty to disobey” doctrine found in both the UCMJ and in the Nuremberg Principles. This country’s history of war crimes necessitates that. This would put everyone – particularly the politicians, who get us into wars – on alert that “what you say ain’t necessarily so,” and therefore is no basis for a) putting oneself at unwarranted risk, and b) putting others at unwarranted risk.
Colin Powell, as both ex-military and high government official at the time, could have averted a catastrophe reverberating to this day had he recited Steely Dan to George, Dick, Don, Paul, Condoleezza, Scooter and a bunch of others:
I'm a fool to do your dirty work, oh yeah
I don't wanna do your dirty work no more
I'm a fool to do your dirty work, oh yeah
In other words, and referring to a not very good movie from 1970 but whose title I like, “Suppose They Gave a War and Nobody Came?” What’s the harm in that, except to some Right wing ideologues, imperialists, and capitalists... and oh, Zionists?
So in other words, "Okay, that box checked, now get on with loading that 2,000 lb. bunker buster, intel tells us we got a school to hit where Israel tells us terrorists are hiding out," do I have that right?
War itself is a crime against humanity. It's a crime committed because of the utter, forever stupidity of humankind. Of misguided people neurotically in the grasp of unconscious power complexes, who lack the empathy required to perceive the path of endless blood that inevitably becomes their legacy. Of 20+ year olds who are unable to think for themselves, and fall for the lies told to them - lies as old as ancient Rome and Nero's fiddle.
Yes. Carl Jung wrote somewhere that many remain psychological children - since they derive strength and identity from being part of collective hive mind thinking - become automatons that fail to individuate their own selfhood. This can often lead to subsequent neurotic behavior, and as we frequently hear, suicide.
I would imagine a certain percentage of people join the military because they mysteriously believe that it relieves them of self responsibility and maturing into an adult.
It is apparently quite legal for soldiers not to "follow" orders if they are not humane, or illegal. Right now the war on Iran is not legal, drumpf did not go through congress, he is not a king with sole rule, he is a president-who may have become president by tech cheating-therefore would have no right at all to declare war on a non-aggresive country that has not fired, or threatened to fire missiles at the US. This illegal war is about oil, find out how much drumpf, and his family are invested in oil.
Israel is out to take over the whole ME as step one to world domination. The carnage and death they are causing could all be stopped with two bullets.
This tripe about Jesus anointing drumpf is the most ridiculous stupidity ever to come out of the mouths of grown adults. As if Jesus would even look at a paedophile to run a business let alone anointing drumpf as his anything. That is desperation to pretend something that is so far from any possible truth, it's hysterical. Are these people hypnotised that they let such nonsense come out of their mouths, especially to soldiers they are sending to their deaths, all because some evangelicals are desperate for the "end times". If they are so eager, give them rifles and send them instead of young men who haven't asked for this, and only joined the military to get an education and get a good job at the end of the time they signed up for.
When the end times come all of you barracking for war against countries that did not threaten you - you are not going to be lifted up, no way, definitely not. You are the ones that will be left behind to suffer what you called for on these other countries - barren wasteland, burning air in places, hell on earth.
Hospitaller: I put no stock in religion. By the word religion I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called the will of God. Holiness is in right action and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves, and goodness. What God desires is here
[points to head]
Hospitaller: and here
[points to heart]
Hospitaller: and what you decide to do every day, you will be a good man - or not.
It matters not, Jamenta, it's these religious fanatics that are stirring up these wars, and now the military NCOs and above are involving themselves in this madness.
That’s a shame. My Dad did not see combat, fortunately and my nephew was in the honor guard in DC during one of the inaugurations, I believe. He was not in combat either, which I’m grateful.
Thank you for stating the truth. I feel exactly the same way. We would be murdered by Nazi 'murKKKans for this. The military is a VOLUNTEER organization. CLARITY: Members have agency: RESIGN. Members who CHOOSE to slaughter Iranians?They are terrorists.
US military personnel have sworn an oath to defend the US Constitution and the people of the USA against all enemies both foreign and domestic. They are also obligated to disregard illegal orders/ orders to commit crimes and illegal activities.
War against Iran is illegal until the US Congress authorizes it. Bombing unarmed children is illegal even in the time of war.
During the Civil War the wealthy would pay a man to take their place in the Union army. This “all volunteer army” we have now is the same concept when you get right down to it. The draft can never be reinstated to force the middle or upper classes to participate. No Senator or Congressman who voted to reinstate it would ever last beyond the next election cycle and they know it.
But what can happen is more young people with no future sign up and are told they’re “heroes” so the myth they died for honorable ideals must be constantly emphasized. The middle and upper classes are highly invested in this deception to keep their own kids out of combat.
They definitely did but it was the general population that carried things like anti -war, no to imperialism movements, not the wealthy. The wealthy did their best to stop those movements.
1. "I used to follow a few pro-Palestine accounts on TikTok and Instagram who sound great when they’re talking about Gaza but suddenly transform into Lindsey Graham whenever they’re talking about Iran."
I suspect that you may also have been following Sunnis who want to use the US as an attack dog in their religious beef.
2. Did Machiavelli not teach us to beware of atrocity tales told by exiles?
Principled as always. The US soldiers are the extension of its ruling class armed frontline of imperial powers and we must see it as such, bar nothing.
This comment is textbook ultra-leftist, which usually comes from Trots.
Ultra-leftism is essentially elitism.
The petit bourgeoisie ends up leading alot of social movements because they have privilege themselves; they are literate, educated, and have a modicum of wealth.
This person thinks he knows more than the working class; the only problem is that HE is not in charge.
That is why the working class rejects ultra-left adventurism. Thats why the overwhelming majority of people at ICE protests are petit-bourgeois Wokies.
Is you son enlisted in the military? How about you? Ready to die for corporate genocidal demons? If not, you are just an empty sack idiot. Put some skin in the game, big BOY.
The servicemembers are exploited working class persons and that is the consensus of experienced, educated socialists and anti-imperialists.
Bad-mouthing them only increases the divide.
My father served in WWII, my brother served in Viet Nam. When my brother came back, he became a dedicated anti-imperialist. I did not registered for the draft. I was a 'draft dodger.' I could have gone to federal prison.
As I explained the draft was eliminated so blowhards like you could run your mouth.
Blaming servicemembers for the war is the oldest and dumbest ultra-left error an activist can make.
Participation in genocide is something different from a military career "serving your country", and that is exactly what is happening in Gaza, Iran and the Middle East now. We all have moral responsibility for the work we do and if our work slips into doing great harm in the cause of evil, there is personal responsibility.
Those in the military can claim conscientious objector status and get out of the military and under the current circumstances that is the only moral decision one can make. I know it can be a hard choice to make and citizen groups should help in the transition from crime to civilian life while also pushing to stop the American fascist state from more killing.
We are 1934 Germany and the decisions then are the same now. Trump is looking to nationalize state National Guard units into a national "anti-terrorist" force to brutalize the homeland and the concentration camps are already built -- and, no, they are not just for illegals.
Under the current circumstances, there is no moral ground for being in the US military. If you think there is, explain it to the families of those 175+ little girls (ages 6-12) slaughtered by a US missile launched from the SS Abraham Lincoln on the first day or our latest genocide.
And I, too, Christopher, am of the Vietnam generation. I was lucky enough to have a high number in the first lottery. At the time, if I had been drafted, I would probably have naively been daft enough to go into the military. When the draft is reinstituted for the coming land war the one thing we can be sure of -- the Nepo babies of the wealthy vampire class -- like Barron Trump -- will never have to go.
I understand; every war has genocidal aspects. Sy Hersh revealed the My Lai massacre. My point was blaming the servicemembers was what we used to call a "left error," meaning missing the mark and punching down, which is the essence of elitism.
Gee, and all this time I thought Americans were protesting ICE because this new police force is going around in masks - detaining Americans without due process, brutalizing many, including murdering and disappearing ordinary people - and right now, even as I write this, in the process of building concentration camps all over the country. Mea Culpa.
The working class rejects leftism of ALL kinds - because they've been steeped in pro-fascist propaganda their whole lives, certainly since the time of Reagan - and they're more concerned with survival than the realities behind how their meager standard of living is supported. "The Crisis of Democracy", by the Trilateral Commission recommended raising the costs of higher education, and cutting living standards in the 1970's - and it worked, just as they hoped it would.
I don't know which anti-ICE protests you've been going to... But in LA, they're very diverse, economically and in every other way.
I used to take for granted the images of enlisted men and women who adorn most of our city streets. I even thought they were heroes until it dawned on me it's the ruling classes plan to foster military adulation in our covertly militarized society. It is ingrained in the US to say " thank you for your service" to servicemen even if that service was to commit genocide against a weaker opponent. It is never too late to fight the military worship so prevalent in our society but the degree of brainwashing amongst the public makes it difficult in the extreme.
The sad part is that the American people voted Trump in and he has not delivered for the people but has delivered for friends, family and Trans- National organizations.
This happens when the ruling elite do not listen to the people, this may happen in Australia soon as the the historical ruling parties are not listening to the people.
As we are seeing happen in England at present a step to the right.
He's turned out far worse than I would have imagined at the time. I didn't vote for him but I wasn't under the delusion that supporting the Democratic party was a reasonable choice either - given the corruption that now permeates both political parties. If both parties support Genocide, then both parties have no legitimacy to be in power, and there is no moral basis to accept one party over the other. Genocide is a bridge too far.
It's a betrayal and will not be forgotten or forgiven. It turns out it was all lies and all the promises have vanished. Voters had a hope that finally things could be different. Betrayed again.
I’m not sure who these pro-Palestinians are that support the attack on Iran, but I belong to 3 different pro-Palestine organizations and all of us oppose it. The Democrats who seem to support the war against Iran mainly seem to be pro-Israel.
Yes. They’re not connecting the dots between Israeli fascism in the form of genocide and fascism here in the U.S. They still think that electing genocide supporter Kamala Harris would have saved the U.S. from fascism. They were perfectly willing to sacrifice the Palestinian people in order to save us from Trump. I am hoping that the joint U.S.-Israel illegal war on Iran will help more people connect those dots. Israel is not our friend. You cannot finance genocide and wage war on innocents and not become fascists. Trump is the karma visited on the U.S. by the people here who voted for genocide.
Greater love hath no American solder than to lay down his or her life so that Israel can own and control the entire Middle East - just like God has always intended.
I'm often amazed that so many humans are willing to enter war and lose their lives to war - or even spend their days murdering other human beings.
What will the sacrifice mean to them when they're dead? How do they know for sure there is something better awaiting them in an afterlife? What if there is no afterlife?
You gave up the most precious thing you possess: your own life, in a war that had very little to do with you and your own hopes and dreams. You won't even know once you're dead that you're dead. I'm just amazed people are so ready to walk into the abyss and mystery of death.
Oh, I just saw your post— after I posted the Smedley Butler quote in response to a poster above. Sorry to repeat. With all the indoctrination, sometimes reality comes with personal experience. Where I live, veterans organized some of the most effective protests against the genocide in Gaza — and against Trump in general.
Recently my anxiety level is going thru the roof. My focus is short, my sleeping sporadic, and I'm constantly feeling helpless and depressed. Trump and the wars are preventing me from the many pleasures in life I once enjoyed. I'm constantly trying to stay on top of current events. Reading folks like you and many others help center me with rational empathetic knowledge of what's really going on and why. What to do Caitlin. I can't not stay involved but staying involved has put my anxiety thru the roof.
The US military reflex - to bomb poor Latin and middle eastern countries to smithereens and to commit atrocities from the sky - recapitulates the original colonial narrative of the Conquistadors, who used vastly more evolved armaments toward the goal of plunder and genocide. See my pieces, "Sky Wars - The Bombing Industrial Complex of US Terror" and "Gaza is Colonialism on Steroids" - both posted at ZNetwork.
I feel sorry for the soldiers who have been conned into fighting in this war. Maybe they are getting paid, but I doubt that they come from rich families or are rich themselves. And the Iranians who are cheering on the Americans, well, my experience is that nothing seems to divert them away from that thinking. I say remember Iraq, remember Libya, remember Afghanistan and so many more. But I just get blank looks and comments about how awful the Iranian government is. When I say that the US government is at least as bad, I get silence. I am not American, but I would not celebrate someone invading the US with bombs and weapons to "save" the people. It is just a stupid idea. I wish I knew how people could get so stupid.
I think that should be Israelis who are shouting for Iran to be bombed. They've infiltrated every country and pretend to be the indigenous people in an effort to start an uprising. It's what they always do. Zionism is hate, greed and jealousy. Hate for anyone not them. Greed that anyone might have slightly more than them. Jealously when others succeed, without falling for their lies or being under their boot.
There is a lot of space between "valorizing" and "vilifying."
Your generation has been exposed to endless hyperbolic rhetoric
For example, there must be 20 or more words expressing bias; "chauvanism" and "prejudice" are 2 examples. But "racism" the most extreme example of bias, is the one to use to to get elected, and that is the one most often used.
The soldiers killed were young, probably not with college degrees, and many were seeking opportunity to get their college and other economic benefits.
During Viet Nam, because of conscription there was mass resistence because entire families were concerned their relatives would be sent against their will.
While the army now is called "volunteers" in fact it is disproportionately made of of less-privileged persons than the persons vilifying them.
In the Viet Nam era, only the biggest idiots mistook the soldiers, as working class people, for the problem, instead of the elites who actually start and perpetuate war.
Listen to Iraq veteran and anti-war veteran Mike Prysner-
Boots on the ground usually means boots under the ground. Permanently. And the only winners are the MIC. What century is this? It's easy to forget if you're following the news.
About time our military make a stand and say no more.
But like the politicians, this is where their checks come from.
How unfortunate.
Aaron Bushnell took an extremely self-sacrificing stand. The least the rest of them could do is to refuse service.
Refuse to obey unlawful orders. The “I was just following orders” imho should not apply when it comes to murdering women and kids. It was done by U.S. troops in Vietnam also, I’m afraid(the murdering of civilians).
If the military does nothing else, it trains personnel to obey without question.
Well yeah. Pretty much the only way an effective military can act. When you're in battle, you have people giving orders to other human beings that can and often does lead to their deaths. Sometimes military orders sacrifice one unit, to reach a tactical goal, or to save another more important military unit from harm. When people's lives are being sacrificed every day, you can't have the grunts questioning their orders and not obeying them. It has to be drilled into them to follow orders, even to their own deaths. That's what war is made up of, constant death, constant murdering - blood everywhere, including those you just woke up with the other day. No way a military order can be up for a vote.
Should this country ever get the chance to have the reality of it even roughly approximate its ideals, before time runs out (doubtful), one thing I’d want to see is that its military officer corps and its recruits be schooled in the “duty to disobey” doctrine found in both the UCMJ and in the Nuremberg Principles. This country’s history of war crimes necessitates that. This would put everyone – particularly the politicians, who get us into wars – on alert that “what you say ain’t necessarily so,” and therefore is no basis for a) putting oneself at unwarranted risk, and b) putting others at unwarranted risk.
Colin Powell, as both ex-military and high government official at the time, could have averted a catastrophe reverberating to this day had he recited Steely Dan to George, Dick, Don, Paul, Condoleezza, Scooter and a bunch of others:
I'm a fool to do your dirty work, oh yeah
I don't wanna do your dirty work no more
I'm a fool to do your dirty work, oh yeah
In other words, and referring to a not very good movie from 1970 but whose title I like, “Suppose They Gave a War and Nobody Came?” What’s the harm in that, except to some Right wing ideologues, imperialists, and capitalists... and oh, Zionists?
They do receive training in the duty to disobey, but this is in the nature of a moral figleaf.
So in other words, "Okay, that box checked, now get on with loading that 2,000 lb. bunker buster, intel tells us we got a school to hit where Israel tells us terrorists are hiding out," do I have that right?
Sounds about right to me, same goes for military here in the UK.
War itself is a crime against humanity. It's a crime committed because of the utter, forever stupidity of humankind. Of misguided people neurotically in the grasp of unconscious power complexes, who lack the empathy required to perceive the path of endless blood that inevitably becomes their legacy. Of 20+ year olds who are unable to think for themselves, and fall for the lies told to them - lies as old as ancient Rome and Nero's fiddle.
Not arguing that. The result, however is automatons.
Yes. Carl Jung wrote somewhere that many remain psychological children - since they derive strength and identity from being part of collective hive mind thinking - become automatons that fail to individuate their own selfhood. This can often lead to subsequent neurotic behavior, and as we frequently hear, suicide.
Years ago, I knew a human woman who had been career enlisted in army intelligence.
She said, to paraphrase, a lot of the enlisted were in the (pre-9/11) military because they liked having someone else tell them what to do.
She had a lot of insights.
I would imagine a certain percentage of people join the military because they mysteriously believe that it relieves them of self responsibility and maturing into an adult.
And PTSD or what used to be called shell shock.😢
It is apparently quite legal for soldiers not to "follow" orders if they are not humane, or illegal. Right now the war on Iran is not legal, drumpf did not go through congress, he is not a king with sole rule, he is a president-who may have become president by tech cheating-therefore would have no right at all to declare war on a non-aggresive country that has not fired, or threatened to fire missiles at the US. This illegal war is about oil, find out how much drumpf, and his family are invested in oil.
Israel is out to take over the whole ME as step one to world domination. The carnage and death they are causing could all be stopped with two bullets.
This tripe about Jesus anointing drumpf is the most ridiculous stupidity ever to come out of the mouths of grown adults. As if Jesus would even look at a paedophile to run a business let alone anointing drumpf as his anything. That is desperation to pretend something that is so far from any possible truth, it's hysterical. Are these people hypnotised that they let such nonsense come out of their mouths, especially to soldiers they are sending to their deaths, all because some evangelicals are desperate for the "end times". If they are so eager, give them rifles and send them instead of young men who haven't asked for this, and only joined the military to get an education and get a good job at the end of the time they signed up for.
When the end times come all of you barracking for war against countries that did not threaten you - you are not going to be lifted up, no way, definitely not. You are the ones that will be left behind to suffer what you called for on these other countries - barren wasteland, burning air in places, hell on earth.
Hospitaller: I put no stock in religion. By the word religion I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called the will of God. Holiness is in right action and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves, and goodness. What God desires is here
[points to head]
Hospitaller: and here
[points to heart]
Hospitaller: and what you decide to do every day, you will be a good man - or not.
~Kingdom of God, Ridley Scott
It matters not, Jamenta, it's these religious fanatics that are stirring up these wars, and now the military NCOs and above are involving themselves in this madness.
"The great world, the background, in all of us, is the world of our beliefs. This is the world of the permanencies and the immensities."
~William James, 'To Helen Keller', December 17, 1908
there was THIS ONE, now prosecuted..:
https://rumble.com/v76nh4w-marine-sgt.-arm-broken-by-senator-sheehy-for-protesting-israel-no-one-wants.html
Yeah I saw that video and it was awful. My dad, who is now deceased, and my nephew were both in the Marines.
I never met ANY of both my grandfathers, all 'thanks' to wars...
That’s a shame. My Dad did not see combat, fortunately and my nephew was in the honor guard in DC during one of the inaugurations, I believe. He was not in combat either, which I’m grateful.
Thank you for stating the truth. I feel exactly the same way. We would be murdered by Nazi 'murKKKans for this. The military is a VOLUNTEER organization. CLARITY: Members have agency: RESIGN. Members who CHOOSE to slaughter Iranians?They are terrorists.
US military personnel have sworn an oath to defend the US Constitution and the people of the USA against all enemies both foreign and domestic. They are also obligated to disregard illegal orders/ orders to commit crimes and illegal activities.
War against Iran is illegal until the US Congress authorizes it. Bombing unarmed children is illegal even in the time of war.
Thats why Dick Cheney got rid of the draft, so you can run your mouth without risk or taking responsibility.
Pretty obvious, huh?
Eliminating the draft is what killed the anti-war, anti-imperialist movement.
You don't think the wealthy didn't have ten ways from Sunday to get out of the draft? Talk about naive.
During the Civil War the wealthy would pay a man to take their place in the Union army. This “all volunteer army” we have now is the same concept when you get right down to it. The draft can never be reinstated to force the middle or upper classes to participate. No Senator or Congressman who voted to reinstate it would ever last beyond the next election cycle and they know it.
But what can happen is more young people with no future sign up and are told they’re “heroes” so the myth they died for honorable ideals must be constantly emphasized. The middle and upper classes are highly invested in this deception to keep their own kids out of combat.
Paz: [to Jason Bourne] Why didn't you take the shot?
Jason Bourne: Do you even know why you're supposed to kill me? Look at us. Look at what they make you give.
They definitely did but it was the general population that carried things like anti -war, no to imperialism movements, not the wealthy. The wealthy did their best to stop those movements.
1. "I used to follow a few pro-Palestine accounts on TikTok and Instagram who sound great when they’re talking about Gaza but suddenly transform into Lindsey Graham whenever they’re talking about Iran."
I suspect that you may also have been following Sunnis who want to use the US as an attack dog in their religious beef.
2. Did Machiavelli not teach us to beware of atrocity tales told by exiles?
American soldiers should turn their guns towards DC to save America and humanity.
Principled as always. The US soldiers are the extension of its ruling class armed frontline of imperial powers and we must see it as such, bar nothing.
This comment is textbook ultra-leftist, which usually comes from Trots.
Ultra-leftism is essentially elitism.
The petit bourgeoisie ends up leading alot of social movements because they have privilege themselves; they are literate, educated, and have a modicum of wealth.
This person thinks he knows more than the working class; the only problem is that HE is not in charge.
That is why the working class rejects ultra-left adventurism. Thats why the overwhelming majority of people at ICE protests are petit-bourgeois Wokies.
Is you son enlisted in the military? How about you? Ready to die for corporate genocidal demons? If not, you are just an empty sack idiot. Put some skin in the game, big BOY.
[I was here when you got here]
The servicemembers are exploited working class persons and that is the consensus of experienced, educated socialists and anti-imperialists.
Bad-mouthing them only increases the divide.
My father served in WWII, my brother served in Viet Nam. When my brother came back, he became a dedicated anti-imperialist. I did not registered for the draft. I was a 'draft dodger.' I could have gone to federal prison.
As I explained the draft was eliminated so blowhards like you could run your mouth.
Blaming servicemembers for the war is the oldest and dumbest ultra-left error an activist can make.
Participation in genocide is something different from a military career "serving your country", and that is exactly what is happening in Gaza, Iran and the Middle East now. We all have moral responsibility for the work we do and if our work slips into doing great harm in the cause of evil, there is personal responsibility.
Those in the military can claim conscientious objector status and get out of the military and under the current circumstances that is the only moral decision one can make. I know it can be a hard choice to make and citizen groups should help in the transition from crime to civilian life while also pushing to stop the American fascist state from more killing.
We are 1934 Germany and the decisions then are the same now. Trump is looking to nationalize state National Guard units into a national "anti-terrorist" force to brutalize the homeland and the concentration camps are already built -- and, no, they are not just for illegals.
Under the current circumstances, there is no moral ground for being in the US military. If you think there is, explain it to the families of those 175+ little girls (ages 6-12) slaughtered by a US missile launched from the SS Abraham Lincoln on the first day or our latest genocide.
And I, too, Christopher, am of the Vietnam generation. I was lucky enough to have a high number in the first lottery. At the time, if I had been drafted, I would probably have naively been daft enough to go into the military. When the draft is reinstituted for the coming land war the one thing we can be sure of -- the Nepo babies of the wealthy vampire class -- like Barron Trump -- will never have to go.
I understand; every war has genocidal aspects. Sy Hersh revealed the My Lai massacre. My point was blaming the servicemembers was what we used to call a "left error," meaning missing the mark and punching down, which is the essence of elitism.
Peace.
So the service members should not be accountable at all? The men who did the actual shooting and killing, are not responsible at all for their acts?
Seems like an easy cop out.
https://youtu.be/mVXYH9tRknc?si=TNHY_nPcqr77_mj5
Listen, again, and see if you get it.
Gee, and all this time I thought Americans were protesting ICE because this new police force is going around in masks - detaining Americans without due process, brutalizing many, including murdering and disappearing ordinary people - and right now, even as I write this, in the process of building concentration camps all over the country. Mea Culpa.
The working class rejects leftism of ALL kinds - because they've been steeped in pro-fascist propaganda their whole lives, certainly since the time of Reagan - and they're more concerned with survival than the realities behind how their meager standard of living is supported. "The Crisis of Democracy", by the Trilateral Commission recommended raising the costs of higher education, and cutting living standards in the 1970's - and it worked, just as they hoped it would.
I don't know which anti-ICE protests you've been going to... But in LA, they're very diverse, economically and in every other way.
I used to take for granted the images of enlisted men and women who adorn most of our city streets. I even thought they were heroes until it dawned on me it's the ruling classes plan to foster military adulation in our covertly militarized society. It is ingrained in the US to say " thank you for your service" to servicemen even if that service was to commit genocide against a weaker opponent. It is never too late to fight the military worship so prevalent in our society but the degree of brainwashing amongst the public makes it difficult in the extreme.
The sad part is that the American people voted Trump in and he has not delivered for the people but has delivered for friends, family and Trans- National organizations.
This happens when the ruling elite do not listen to the people, this may happen in Australia soon as the the historical ruling parties are not listening to the people.
As we are seeing happen in England at present a step to the right.
He's turned out far worse than I would have imagined at the time. I didn't vote for him but I wasn't under the delusion that supporting the Democratic party was a reasonable choice either - given the corruption that now permeates both political parties. If both parties support Genocide, then both parties have no legitimacy to be in power, and there is no moral basis to accept one party over the other. Genocide is a bridge too far.
That was my bridge. I voted “uncommitted,” in solidarity with those who saw genocide as a bridge too far.
💯👍👏🙏☮️🕊️
It's a betrayal and will not be forgotten or forgiven. It turns out it was all lies and all the promises have vanished. Voters had a hope that finally things could be different. Betrayed again.
I’m not sure who these pro-Palestinians are that support the attack on Iran, but I belong to 3 different pro-Palestine organizations and all of us oppose it. The Democrats who seem to support the war against Iran mainly seem to be pro-Israel.
Yes. They’re not connecting the dots between Israeli fascism in the form of genocide and fascism here in the U.S. They still think that electing genocide supporter Kamala Harris would have saved the U.S. from fascism. They were perfectly willing to sacrifice the Palestinian people in order to save us from Trump. I am hoping that the joint U.S.-Israel illegal war on Iran will help more people connect those dots. Israel is not our friend. You cannot finance genocide and wage war on innocents and not become fascists. Trump is the karma visited on the U.S. by the people here who voted for genocide.
Greater love hath no American solder than to lay down his or her life so that Israel can own and control the entire Middle East - just like God has always intended.
I'm often amazed that so many humans are willing to enter war and lose their lives to war - or even spend their days murdering other human beings.
What will the sacrifice mean to them when they're dead? How do they know for sure there is something better awaiting them in an afterlife? What if there is no afterlife?
You gave up the most precious thing you possess: your own life, in a war that had very little to do with you and your own hopes and dreams. You won't even know once you're dead that you're dead. I'm just amazed people are so ready to walk into the abyss and mystery of death.
War for the benefit of the oligarchs is how it's always been. Smedley Butler said it well in his short book 'War is a Racket'
Well worth a read
https://www.heritage-history.com/site/hclass/secret_societies/ebooks/pdf/butler_racket.pdf
Oh, I just saw your post— after I posted the Smedley Butler quote in response to a poster above. Sorry to repeat. With all the indoctrination, sometimes reality comes with personal experience. Where I live, veterans organized some of the most effective protests against the genocide in Gaza — and against Trump in general.
Caitlin
Recently my anxiety level is going thru the roof. My focus is short, my sleeping sporadic, and I'm constantly feeling helpless and depressed. Trump and the wars are preventing me from the many pleasures in life I once enjoyed. I'm constantly trying to stay on top of current events. Reading folks like you and many others help center me with rational empathetic knowledge of what's really going on and why. What to do Caitlin. I can't not stay involved but staying involved has put my anxiety thru the roof.
Lol peace
The US military reflex - to bomb poor Latin and middle eastern countries to smithereens and to commit atrocities from the sky - recapitulates the original colonial narrative of the Conquistadors, who used vastly more evolved armaments toward the goal of plunder and genocide. See my pieces, "Sky Wars - The Bombing Industrial Complex of US Terror" and "Gaza is Colonialism on Steroids" - both posted at ZNetwork.
I feel sorry for the soldiers who have been conned into fighting in this war. Maybe they are getting paid, but I doubt that they come from rich families or are rich themselves. And the Iranians who are cheering on the Americans, well, my experience is that nothing seems to divert them away from that thinking. I say remember Iraq, remember Libya, remember Afghanistan and so many more. But I just get blank looks and comments about how awful the Iranian government is. When I say that the US government is at least as bad, I get silence. I am not American, but I would not celebrate someone invading the US with bombs and weapons to "save" the people. It is just a stupid idea. I wish I knew how people could get so stupid.
I think that should be Israelis who are shouting for Iran to be bombed. They've infiltrated every country and pretend to be the indigenous people in an effort to start an uprising. It's what they always do. Zionism is hate, greed and jealousy. Hate for anyone not them. Greed that anyone might have slightly more than them. Jealously when others succeed, without falling for their lies or being under their boot.
There is a lot of space between "valorizing" and "vilifying."
Your generation has been exposed to endless hyperbolic rhetoric
For example, there must be 20 or more words expressing bias; "chauvanism" and "prejudice" are 2 examples. But "racism" the most extreme example of bias, is the one to use to to get elected, and that is the one most often used.
The soldiers killed were young, probably not with college degrees, and many were seeking opportunity to get their college and other economic benefits.
During Viet Nam, because of conscription there was mass resistence because entire families were concerned their relatives would be sent against their will.
While the army now is called "volunteers" in fact it is disproportionately made of of less-privileged persons than the persons vilifying them.
In the Viet Nam era, only the biggest idiots mistook the soldiers, as working class people, for the problem, instead of the elites who actually start and perpetuate war.
Listen to Iraq veteran and anti-war veteran Mike Prysner-
https://youtu.be/mVXYH9tRknc?si=TNHY_nPcqr77_mj5
That is the right way to do it, my opinion.
Respectfully.
“War is a racket.”
former Major General Smedley Butler, USMC (deceased)
PS, two words-
"PUNCHING DOWN"
Boots on the ground usually means boots under the ground. Permanently. And the only winners are the MIC. What century is this? It's easy to forget if you're following the news.
It takes a stupid person to make a stupid rule.
And a fool to mind it.
Do not be a stupid.
Do not be a fool.
Everyone who carries water for Israel, and its dog, trump, is indeed a sucker.
And a loser.
What if somebody gave a war.
And nobody came.
The Epstein War would be over in a trice.
And all those little girls would still be alive.
Rest their souls.
I wonder if they do have souls,
Maybe the Universe is just a mechanical game,
Of murder and fat genitals of
Old White Men and their Bombs.
Clearly, these flaming malignant narcissists are obligate darkseekers and skin walkers; they have no souls.
They must be stopped.