israel is genocidal illegitimate illegal creation of the west. For the past 600 years biggest contributions of the west are Genocides, Racism, Zionism, Nazism, Fascism, Imperialism, Colonization, Slavery, Industrial scale mass murder of native populations and theft of land, food, and resources, ethnic cleansing, infinite evil, etc. What a record. Enjoying your "freedoms" and "democracy"?
Are you sure it started with Rome? I've got something called "The Holy Bible" right here, which pre-dates Rome, and it is about as ugly as it gets. And if you want to go farther back, or afield, there's some Babylonian, and Sumerian, texts that would put the Romans to shame. And there's plenty more, "Three Kingdoms," anyone?
Firstly, the "Bible" is created from older Sumerian and Babylonian texts, rewritten for the Hebrew population to feel 'special'; and the NT Bible was to a large extent written by the Romans - they also selected which gospels and other Xian tracts were to be included in it.
Secondly, this was a comment about Europe, and not those West Asian civilisations.
AFAWK, European populations simply did not behave like this, on this scale, before Romans turned up on the scene. Interestingly, according to the Romans themselves, they were refugees from somewhere else (Probably Turkic pirates who crash landed). The same 'creation' myth the Spartans had - their slaves were the local Europeans.
Western (Iberian), Northern (Celt and Nordic) and AFAWK Eastern Europeans simply did not behave in this manner, although they were not angels by any means. But the psychopathic states/leaderships in Europe began with Rome.
They also set back European science and culture back many centuries, it was not until the 20th century that women in Europe finally began to get their rights back from Roman Patriarchy, and scientific enquiry in the 17th.
Rome was the worst thing ever to happen to Europe since the ice ages, and its influence is still seen across the world today. The scars of European 'empires' will take many generations to heal.
It is difficult for honest persons to defend such evil behaviors. However, for us to be able to live with such grim characteristics, we must think it is our evil leaders who made us do it.
I think blaming the West, a very broad brush, for the evil that is Israel is a stretch. A combination of fascist political racist Zionism with paranoid, victim, elitist, supremacist Judaism is enough to do it. Then putting the cult into its own State and letting it literally get away with murder and countless atrocities for 76 years is going to create the worst kind of evil. Nothing Western about it.
p.s. Any study of colonisation throughout history shows Western or rather, anglo-european colonists were hardly the first or the worst. Read up on how the Africans, Asians and Polynesians colonised.
But realize the West is a bona fide collaborator with Zionist Israel, and providing the military means for the slaughter of the Palestinian people . Its unending support of genocide on this scale is unforgivable and will not be rabbit-holed away when this abomination ends. The US gets no free pass from the violence and murder it condones, in effect, and is a clear accessory to war crime subject to criminal indictment!!
There is no united West. The US certainly bankrolls Israel and US lackey allies go along with it including UK, Australia, Canada etc. But there are Western nations which condemn Israel.
The US is not THE West but part of what is called the West. I agree with you in regard to the US.
I don't disagree but have slightly different angle on it. No one is absolving genocidal entity called israel. Israel=west and west=israel. Zionism, Nazism, Fascism, Racism, and Imperialism rule the "western" world. So called "freedom and democracy" is just a paper-thin facade. Will not take much longer for that worn out lie to be completely lifted. There is no difference between the "west" and israel in my opinion. While no one is perfect we are talking about scales and magnitudes. No one comes even close to "western" colonization, exceptionalism, brutality, and evilness.
To conflate Israel's colonisation of Palestine with colonisations by anglo-europeans in the distant past, centuries past, is to let the Israelis off the hook and to demonstrate a total lack of history and respect for facts.
There is no West as any sort of unified entity, historically or today. There are thousands of colonisations throughout human history and still, read up on West Papua by Indonesia, and many of them were not done by anglo-europeans, i.e. the West.
Asians, Africans, Polynesians, Indians, everyone has colonised and often far more savagely than anglo-europeans did in recent centuries.
Any study of the colonisation of Canada, New Zealand, Australia, United States, to name just four, shows NONE of them were founded in the level of bigotry that Israel was nor with a policy of genocide. To ignore the facts of the matter is to be no better than the Israelis and to play their game.
You are right! The level of brutality in the case of israel is unprecedented. I just wanted to draw parallels with the bloody history of the west which is based on colonization, theft, genocides, etc. (e,g. native Americans, aboriginals or indigenous Australians). How do you explain the fact that most of the western political elites and mainstream media stand solidly behind israel even in light of clear evidence of genocide. Are they all blackmailed or is it because they would do the same thing given the chance?
You said: How do you explain the fact that most of the western political elites and mainstream media stand solidly behind israel even in light of clear evidence of genocide.
A variety of reasons.
1. Zionist, Israeli, Jewish influence and power in Governments and mainstream media in many Western nations, particularly the US.
2. the belief that a military base for Western nations is required in the Middle East and Israel is that military base.
3. Ignorance because of propaganda and censorship about the reality of Zionist Israel's murderous colonisation of Palestine.
4. Mossad holding compromising material on many if not most Western politicians, particularly in the US.
5. The influence of fundo Christians and their insane ideas about the mythical Israel needing to exist, particularly in the US.
6. But mostly money, bribery and blackmail by Zionists, Israelis and Jews along with a great deal of bullying.
There are many countries in what you call the West who have not been colonists, Japan for instance. As we understand colonisation.
I also believe it is wrong to make comparative colonisations by anglo-Europeans in the 15th to 19th centuries with Israeli colonisation of Palestine in the 20th and 20st centuries. Context matters.
And it is the worst kind of elitism and racism to take a position that colonisations by anglo-europeans are worse because they are held, or should be held, to a higher standard.
Everyone colonised, Africans, Asians, Polynesians, Indian, American and Indian Indians, and often far more violently than anglo-europeans.
And no-one has yet demonstrated that the colonisations of the US, Canada, Australia, NZ or even South Africa for example, were created and carried out with a policy of genocide. Yes, there were genocidal instances, particularly in the US, but not in Australia or New Zealand.
I think Australia gets thrown into the pot by people who are totally ignorant of the history of colonisation in that country, including Chris Hedges and others and Caitlin Johnstone who, as an Australian has no excuse for not accessing the historical records.
By all means, prove to me that any other colonisation by Europeans was done with a policy, an active policy, of genocide.
Qualifier - in WWII Japan occupied many countries but as far as I know has not acted as a coloniser in the sense we are discussing here.
We can convince ourselves that people like Biden, Trump, Netanyahu and the other evil war hawks are psychopaths, but how do we translate that to their families, their supporters, their countrymen??
Where is the empathy for little children and grieving mothers?
This is not unique to Israel or even to contemporary warfare which is so often photographed . Look at Goya's paintings and etchings - they are graphic enough to look like current photography .
Such "progression" is not going to occur biologically via mutation and natural selection -- even if that were still operant in human biology, it's a slow process requiring millennia. So given that human brains are patterned mostly by experience, progression requires a complete transformation of societal/cultural norms so that next-gen etc. brains encounter new paradigms. Good luck to us civilized folks with that.
But we discuss these things. We know how the brain works, more or less. We known how it is patterned and we know it is plastic and malleable. We know we can work at changing these things both individually and collectively. People who think they are superior (Aryans, Zionists, Americans, English) are psychopathic and/or choose to do evil things for their own gratification. The rest of us should be able to change. So it doesn't surprise me that those ethnic groups, white groups, nations, that consider themselves "exceptional" can do such evil things (it does still shock me) but why is the rest of the western world (with very few exceptions) going along with it? Why Trudeau, Macron? The Global South seems to see through it. Have the evolved further along the human chain?
I think the global south knows the enslaved paradigm, know what it's like to be the underdog and be trod upon by the exceptionalists; perhaps this gives them a different way of perceiving the world from childhood when brain patterning is extreme. Clearly -- from my own experience and that of friends -- that's not the case in what US children experience about their place in the cosmos. RE: our understanding of the brain. We understand it at a reductionist level. But as a complex dynamical system, not so much.
Yeah, but your posts exude passion, gypsy, whereas, any crudeness in mine tend to be kid-from-Brooklyn compensations for the academic robes which usually hide that street urchin -- who really just wants to run wild shouting "F everything".
True, unfortunately. I don't believe "humanity" has progressed at all - we still seem to be the animals we always were - except now we're able to hide it better.
I would urge you not to slander animals so, but Ursula K. LeGuin pointed out that, while animals can be cruel, only men and ants make war, and ants are animals, technically.
I agree completely with the point, but, just to make one addition, Spotted Hyena clans, all totally matriarchal, have been known to engage in some pretty brutal clan warfare.
The keyword is "supposed". Who said we were? Based on what? There's been no reason whatsoever for anyone to become civilized. And I doubt there ever will be.
Maybe that's why the select higher supreme few try to replace humans with AI robots. It will be less trouble to control those than constantly stoke hate through which they manage to control the humanity now.
Come to think of it - maybe it's they who are spreading the myth of "we're supposed to be civilized now". So they could point at how we're not. Hence, [fill in the blanks]...
The above are just a sample of the articles that DEBUNKS BOTH of the experiments you mention.
Feral, I suggest this book for you to read (to enhance your perspective on humans) -> "Humankind: A Hopeful History" by Rutger Bregman (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/52879286-humankind) -> it debunks many "beliefs" you seem to have about "humanity" and "human nature".
We see simialr "debunkings", any time anyone writes things people do not want to see. Machiavelli, The Evolution Of Species, and even literature (Uncle Tom's Cabin spawned a rash of "anti-Tom" books and novels) were the first examples to come to mind.
I'm surprised at the weakness (and lack of rationality/critical thinking) of your argument.
I suspect you understand "how science works".
(1) There is a hypothesis
(2) People run experiments to prove (or disprove) a hypothesis with a certain amount of statistical significance
(3) If FLAWS are detected in the METHODOLOGY of the experiment (regardless of timeframe), and IF the experiments are not repeatable successfully (replication crisis in academia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replication_crisis), then the results/study is nullified/voided/re-examined.
(4) As NEW EVIDENCE comes forth, old theories are CONSTANTLY REVISED.
Are you able to change your opinions/views in the face of NEW and contrasting/contradicting evidence? Or are you unable to upgrade your thinking and prefer to stick with your beliefs (that support your world-view of humanity)?
Did you EVEN READ the links? Did you bother to do some research on the debunkings?
Nothing in your comment even remotely addresses ANY of dozens of experiments and articles that DEBUNK the above 2 experiments.
ALSO, what is MOST glaring (and dishonest) in your argument is that -> you are comparing disagreements IN LITERATURE to disagreements IN SCIENCE. The two fields DO NOT work the same. That is a FALSE EQUIVALENCY.
No, Feral, human nature IS flexible and dynamic - it reflects the society, culture, environment, etc. we live in (amongst many other factors).
Here's one theory: Society, culture, etc. affects human behavior and psychology - i.e. it molds the way humans react with the outside world. This "human behavior and reaction" in turn, changes society and culture. So in essense, there are multiple feedback loops - society/culture/enviornment affecting human behavior/psychology and human behavior/psychology affecting society/culture/environment.
Also, I would recomment you study/reference REAL history from ANTHROPOLOGY (i.e. what human nature was during the hunter-gatherer periods) and how human nature EVOLVED.
It used to be, humans disagreed on the interpretation and analysis of history. But now we have REAL history from ANTHROPOLOGY, and also Engels, no such disagreement is necessary.
? Don't really follow your comment. Anthropology is constantly evolving as new technology becomes available that enables us to fine-tune our interpretations of history.
Again, there is no "ONE" HISTORY or "REAL" history. There are "interpretations" of HISTORY. There is NO ultimate arbiter that says "this history is true and this history is false". That's not how history works.
As new archival information becomes available (and with better technology and archeological discoveries), history is CONSTANTLY being revised and re-interpreted (till the end of time).
Fair enough, I should rephrase my statement with "read MORE history" from multiple sources. Then use critical thinking to analyze that thinking.
Also, the HISTORY we are talking about (ANTHROPOLOGY) is not JUST HISTORY. It is ALSO SCIENCE. Hence, history is often revised based on scientific evidence.
"Laila al-Khatib was shot in the head by Israeli forces in Jenin, because I guess they needed one more dead Palestinian kid". We join Caitlin in lamenting the dead children of Gaza.
In the rest of the Western world it is Holocaust Remembrance Day marking the 80th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz. World leaders are flocking to Poland to commemorate the day.
The irony and the heartlessness of commemorating a holocaust while aiding and abetting a present day genocide seem to be completely lost on them. What have they become....
Thank you russian_bot for pointing out my omission. A glaring one. That Auschwitz was liberated by the Soviet Red Army doesn't often get a mention in the mainstream discourse, is all the more reason that we should point it out again and again.
Not only " the actual liberators are excluded ", they are being subjected to a US/West proxy war to destroy and balkanise the Russian Federation.
In the not so distant future these truths may even be erased from their books.
That which they were accused of, Indu? Too glib, I know. But they certainly consistently display the ‘monstrous’ genocidal behaviours of their former persecutors in pursuit of their own version of ‘lebensraum’. As Caitlin’s horrific angel vision shows, that level of group consciousness is a harbinger of universal death.
The conscientious world lives in horror; watching unbelievable atrocities being perpetrated by monsters.
We have lost all sovereignty in our own country. The monsters have bribed our representatives in government turning them into monsters. In our silence we, too, have become monsters.
Under the layers of deception coils the core of Evil. It is a pale-faced Khazarian with an adopted, fake-Semitic name. To it, the rest of the world is Amalek and must be murdered.
Little Laila al-Khatib is so beautiful, so innocent, and so peaceful. It breaks my heart. I cannot even cry. It is sad beyond belief. Cannot even imagine the agony and pain that her mother is now going through. This photo also epitomizes the utter ugliness of the west=israel.
I want to turn into a specially bioengineered virus targeted at the cerebral neurons of Israeli Zionists, cross reactive with those of Christian Zionists. I'm a virus that invades those neurons then pile-drives into their mitochondria, shutting down bioenergy production such that a slow slide to dementia occurs as neurons shut down one by one -- turning the devils into blubbering idiots unable to either control their excretory functions or make any homicidal decisions.
Fantastic suggestion Vin LoPresti! I'll join you in converting myself into such a virus that can destroy Zionism from the inside at the cellular level!
I cannot write any better than what Caitlin expressed today. It reaches the heart and soul of me. I will mention Dr. Gabor Mate. He often speaks of all what is happening in Gaza and Westbank and that it affects all of us. It affects the whole world. I do not understand why the whole world cannot stop these horrific crimes..not only since Oct 7th but going back decades. How can one ethnic group control the whole world? Why are we all so paralyzed by it. Why are we so helpless. Caitlins newsletter is really the place that always says it like it is. My mother was originally from Quebec however she married an American and I was born in the US of A. And, of course I grew up being told it is the best, the most important etc. Today I have dual and do not want that. I do not even want to tell anyone where I was born. I am so ashamed. Many countries are complicit in bombing Gaza and Westbank...how is that possible that it is ignored! Why can;t the world stop this? As I sit in my warm bed and write this, I feel so sad, guilty of having the life I have and yet feel so helpless. Why can't the world stop this ethnic group from the crimes they are committing and seems like they will continue to do so. I cry easily. Once you know things...or learn about them..it is impossible to unlearn it. Sorry. I think these comments are supposed to be much short than this.
Thank-you for your comment, who says comments must be short, this is not X, I applaud you for sharing so much. I share much of your anguish, but do not be ashamed of awaking to the reality of what harms have perpetrated by your country and countermen, yes once you know a truth you can not unknow it. Yes, keep asking why, why does the world not put an end to this suffering?Why does the world tolerate such belligerency? Please continue to ask why, because not enough people have awaken to the truth yet.
Denyse, you are expressing exactly what many of us feel: GUILT that we are not capable of stopping this holocaust!
Each morning as I wake up, I wonder how many Palestinians did not do so. When I prepare dinner, I wonder if they have anything at all to eat. When my knee is bothering me, I consider that at least I have my legs. And on and on.
Please think otherwise. The Palestinians don't feel that way, surely none of us has the right to deny them the vision of a future well past this moment, one with dignity, and an end to the suffering.
And Tim Foley too, Jim. I feel the pressures on them, individually and as a team are immense. And soul-wrenching withal. I have been enriched by their work, and in awe of their enduring commitment.
With each bullet to a child's head, and the many more atrocities they commit, Israel has proven that they have no right to exist.
israel is genocidal illegitimate illegal creation of the west. For the past 600 years biggest contributions of the west are Genocides, Racism, Zionism, Nazism, Fascism, Imperialism, Colonization, Slavery, Industrial scale mass murder of native populations and theft of land, food, and resources, ethnic cleansing, infinite evil, etc. What a record. Enjoying your "freedoms" and "democracy"?
Actually, it's 2000 years. This is the behaviour of Rome.
There's no archaeological evidence Europe behaved like this before Rome turned up.
It is cultural - memetic beliefs - rather than anything genetic.
Anyone telling you "Rome was the source of Civilisation" is either totally brainwashed, or a truly horrible person - usually the former.
Are you sure it started with Rome? I've got something called "The Holy Bible" right here, which pre-dates Rome, and it is about as ugly as it gets. And if you want to go farther back, or afield, there's some Babylonian, and Sumerian, texts that would put the Romans to shame. And there's plenty more, "Three Kingdoms," anyone?
Yes, I'm sure of what I wrote, Joy.
Firstly, the "Bible" is created from older Sumerian and Babylonian texts, rewritten for the Hebrew population to feel 'special'; and the NT Bible was to a large extent written by the Romans - they also selected which gospels and other Xian tracts were to be included in it.
Secondly, this was a comment about Europe, and not those West Asian civilisations.
AFAWK, European populations simply did not behave like this, on this scale, before Romans turned up on the scene. Interestingly, according to the Romans themselves, they were refugees from somewhere else (Probably Turkic pirates who crash landed). The same 'creation' myth the Spartans had - their slaves were the local Europeans.
Western (Iberian), Northern (Celt and Nordic) and AFAWK Eastern Europeans simply did not behave in this manner, although they were not angels by any means. But the psychopathic states/leaderships in Europe began with Rome.
They also set back European science and culture back many centuries, it was not until the 20th century that women in Europe finally began to get their rights back from Roman Patriarchy, and scientific enquiry in the 17th.
Rome was the worst thing ever to happen to Europe since the ice ages, and its influence is still seen across the world today. The scars of European 'empires' will take many generations to heal.
OMG!
And don't forget they are the 'civilised' while the native peoples are 'savages'. Oh, the irony...
It is difficult for honest persons to defend such evil behaviors. However, for us to be able to live with such grim characteristics, we must think it is our evil leaders who made us do it.
Exactly Nick Douglas. And they wrapped it all up in a shroud called " democracy".
I think blaming the West, a very broad brush, for the evil that is Israel is a stretch. A combination of fascist political racist Zionism with paranoid, victim, elitist, supremacist Judaism is enough to do it. Then putting the cult into its own State and letting it literally get away with murder and countless atrocities for 76 years is going to create the worst kind of evil. Nothing Western about it.
p.s. Any study of colonisation throughout history shows Western or rather, anglo-european colonists were hardly the first or the worst. Read up on how the Africans, Asians and Polynesians colonised.
But realize the West is a bona fide collaborator with Zionist Israel, and providing the military means for the slaughter of the Palestinian people . Its unending support of genocide on this scale is unforgivable and will not be rabbit-holed away when this abomination ends. The US gets no free pass from the violence and murder it condones, in effect, and is a clear accessory to war crime subject to criminal indictment!!
There is no united West. The US certainly bankrolls Israel and US lackey allies go along with it including UK, Australia, Canada etc. But there are Western nations which condemn Israel.
The US is not THE West but part of what is called the West. I agree with you in regard to the US.
I don't disagree but have slightly different angle on it. No one is absolving genocidal entity called israel. Israel=west and west=israel. Zionism, Nazism, Fascism, Racism, and Imperialism rule the "western" world. So called "freedom and democracy" is just a paper-thin facade. Will not take much longer for that worn out lie to be completely lifted. There is no difference between the "west" and israel in my opinion. While no one is perfect we are talking about scales and magnitudes. No one comes even close to "western" colonization, exceptionalism, brutality, and evilness.
To conflate Israel's colonisation of Palestine with colonisations by anglo-europeans in the distant past, centuries past, is to let the Israelis off the hook and to demonstrate a total lack of history and respect for facts.
There is no West as any sort of unified entity, historically or today. There are thousands of colonisations throughout human history and still, read up on West Papua by Indonesia, and many of them were not done by anglo-europeans, i.e. the West.
Asians, Africans, Polynesians, Indians, everyone has colonised and often far more savagely than anglo-europeans did in recent centuries.
Any study of the colonisation of Canada, New Zealand, Australia, United States, to name just four, shows NONE of them were founded in the level of bigotry that Israel was nor with a policy of genocide. To ignore the facts of the matter is to be no better than the Israelis and to play their game.
You are right! The level of brutality in the case of israel is unprecedented. I just wanted to draw parallels with the bloody history of the west which is based on colonization, theft, genocides, etc. (e,g. native Americans, aboriginals or indigenous Australians). How do you explain the fact that most of the western political elites and mainstream media stand solidly behind israel even in light of clear evidence of genocide. Are they all blackmailed or is it because they would do the same thing given the chance?
You said: How do you explain the fact that most of the western political elites and mainstream media stand solidly behind israel even in light of clear evidence of genocide.
A variety of reasons.
1. Zionist, Israeli, Jewish influence and power in Governments and mainstream media in many Western nations, particularly the US.
2. the belief that a military base for Western nations is required in the Middle East and Israel is that military base.
3. Ignorance because of propaganda and censorship about the reality of Zionist Israel's murderous colonisation of Palestine.
4. Mossad holding compromising material on many if not most Western politicians, particularly in the US.
5. The influence of fundo Christians and their insane ideas about the mythical Israel needing to exist, particularly in the US.
6. But mostly money, bribery and blackmail by Zionists, Israelis and Jews along with a great deal of bullying.
There are many countries in what you call the West who have not been colonists, Japan for instance. As we understand colonisation.
I also believe it is wrong to make comparative colonisations by anglo-Europeans in the 15th to 19th centuries with Israeli colonisation of Palestine in the 20th and 20st centuries. Context matters.
And it is the worst kind of elitism and racism to take a position that colonisations by anglo-europeans are worse because they are held, or should be held, to a higher standard.
Everyone colonised, Africans, Asians, Polynesians, Indian, American and Indian Indians, and often far more violently than anglo-europeans.
And no-one has yet demonstrated that the colonisations of the US, Canada, Australia, NZ or even South Africa for example, were created and carried out with a policy of genocide. Yes, there were genocidal instances, particularly in the US, but not in Australia or New Zealand.
I think Australia gets thrown into the pot by people who are totally ignorant of the history of colonisation in that country, including Chris Hedges and others and Caitlin Johnstone who, as an Australian has no excuse for not accessing the historical records.
By all means, prove to me that any other colonisation by Europeans was done with a policy, an active policy, of genocide.
Qualifier - in WWII Japan occupied many countries but as far as I know has not acted as a coloniser in the sense we are discussing here.
AMERICA; what are you feelin'? *YOU* are doing this with your Israeli attack dogs.
Just as the Germans knew what their Nazis were doing, so you know what your Zionists are doing.
They do not care.
Many Americans care, but have no voice in the governments actions. But they do protest the utter evil of Israel/US/UK actions.
Of course, but people of influence and authority are indifferent.
We can convince ourselves that people like Biden, Trump, Netanyahu and the other evil war hawks are psychopaths, but how do we translate that to their families, their supporters, their countrymen??
Where is the empathy for little children and grieving mothers?
What’s wrong with these people?
This is not unique to Israel or even to contemporary warfare which is so often photographed . Look at Goya's paintings and etchings - they are graphic enough to look like current photography .
The dark art of creating hate and othering your enemy/competitor may be ancient but aren’t we ‘supposed) to be civilised now?
Isn’t it time that we as a species actually progressed?
Such "progression" is not going to occur biologically via mutation and natural selection -- even if that were still operant in human biology, it's a slow process requiring millennia. So given that human brains are patterned mostly by experience, progression requires a complete transformation of societal/cultural norms so that next-gen etc. brains encounter new paradigms. Good luck to us civilized folks with that.
But we discuss these things. We know how the brain works, more or less. We known how it is patterned and we know it is plastic and malleable. We know we can work at changing these things both individually and collectively. People who think they are superior (Aryans, Zionists, Americans, English) are psychopathic and/or choose to do evil things for their own gratification. The rest of us should be able to change. So it doesn't surprise me that those ethnic groups, white groups, nations, that consider themselves "exceptional" can do such evil things (it does still shock me) but why is the rest of the western world (with very few exceptions) going along with it? Why Trudeau, Macron? The Global South seems to see through it. Have the evolved further along the human chain?
I think the global south knows the enslaved paradigm, know what it's like to be the underdog and be trod upon by the exceptionalists; perhaps this gives them a different way of perceiving the world from childhood when brain patterning is extreme. Clearly -- from my own experience and that of friends -- that's not the case in what US children experience about their place in the cosmos. RE: our understanding of the brain. We understand it at a reductionist level. But as a complex dynamical system, not so much.
Part of same white society.
Vin, I am always impressed by your eloquence, as opposed to my own cuss-laden posts! (Can’t help it; I speak fluent cowgirl) 😉
Yeah, but your posts exude passion, gypsy, whereas, any crudeness in mine tend to be kid-from-Brooklyn compensations for the academic robes which usually hide that street urchin -- who really just wants to run wild shouting "F everything".
Vin LoPresti & gypsy33, I love you both!
No, humans have merely invented more glib rationalizations and better tech, that is all.
True, unfortunately. I don't believe "humanity" has progressed at all - we still seem to be the animals we always were - except now we're able to hide it better.
Chang, Surely you know that human "progress" is not linear and the mechanistic view of the world has long been debunked.
It is cyclic, things go round and round in evermore concentric circles with no beginning or end.
Yes, you are right Indu. I guess I was expressing my frustration at the state of present world events... 😪
I would urge you not to slander animals so, but Ursula K. LeGuin pointed out that, while animals can be cruel, only men and ants make war, and ants are animals, technically.
I agree completely with the point, but, just to make one addition, Spotted Hyena clans, all totally matriarchal, have been known to engage in some pretty brutal clan warfare.
The keyword is "supposed". Who said we were? Based on what? There's been no reason whatsoever for anyone to become civilized. And I doubt there ever will be.
Maybe that's why the select higher supreme few try to replace humans with AI robots. It will be less trouble to control those than constantly stoke hate through which they manage to control the humanity now.
Come to think of it - maybe it's they who are spreading the myth of "we're supposed to be civilized now". So they could point at how we're not. Hence, [fill in the blanks]...
This *is* human nature.
I don't think so. Most humans would not do this. These people are products of a very sick, psychopathic society.
Humans are herd animals to rival any sheep or lemming. They make dogs look like independent and skeptical thinkers.
Contemplate well the Milgram Experiment and the Stanford Prison Experiment, to name the first examples to come to mind.
>>"Contemplate well the Milgram Experiment and the Stanford Prison Experiment,"
BOTH of those experiments have been DEBUNKED
(1) Debunking the Stanford Prison Experiment (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31380664/)
(2) Why Is the Infamous – and Flawed – Stanford Prison Experiment Still So Influential? (https://www.realclearscience.com/articles/2025/01/14/why_is_the_infamous__and_flawed__stanford_prison_experiment_still_so_influential_1084429.html)
(3) Why (almost) everything you know about Milgram is wrong (https://www.bps.org.uk/psychologist/why-almost-everything-you-know-about-milgram-wrong)
(4) The Shocking Truth of the Notorious Milgram Obedience Experiments (https://www.discovermagazine.com/mind/the-shocking-truth-of-the-notorious-milgram-obedience-experiments)
The above are just a sample of the articles that DEBUNKS BOTH of the experiments you mention.
Feral, I suggest this book for you to read (to enhance your perspective on humans) -> "Humankind: A Hopeful History" by Rutger Bregman (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/52879286-humankind) -> it debunks many "beliefs" you seem to have about "humanity" and "human nature".
We see simialr "debunkings", any time anyone writes things people do not want to see. Machiavelli, The Evolution Of Species, and even literature (Uncle Tom's Cabin spawned a rash of "anti-Tom" books and novels) were the first examples to come to mind.
I'm surprised at the weakness (and lack of rationality/critical thinking) of your argument.
I suspect you understand "how science works".
(1) There is a hypothesis
(2) People run experiments to prove (or disprove) a hypothesis with a certain amount of statistical significance
(3) If FLAWS are detected in the METHODOLOGY of the experiment (regardless of timeframe), and IF the experiments are not repeatable successfully (replication crisis in academia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replication_crisis), then the results/study is nullified/voided/re-examined.
(4) As NEW EVIDENCE comes forth, old theories are CONSTANTLY REVISED.
Are you able to change your opinions/views in the face of NEW and contrasting/contradicting evidence? Or are you unable to upgrade your thinking and prefer to stick with your beliefs (that support your world-view of humanity)?
Did you EVEN READ the links? Did you bother to do some research on the debunkings?
Nothing in your comment even remotely addresses ANY of dozens of experiments and articles that DEBUNK the above 2 experiments.
ALSO, what is MOST glaring (and dishonest) in your argument is that -> you are comparing disagreements IN LITERATURE to disagreements IN SCIENCE. The two fields DO NOT work the same. That is a FALSE EQUIVALENCY.
No, Feral, human nature IS flexible and dynamic - it reflects the society, culture, environment, etc. we live in (amongst many other factors).
Here's one theory: Society, culture, etc. affects human behavior and psychology - i.e. it molds the way humans react with the outside world. This "human behavior and reaction" in turn, changes society and culture. So in essense, there are multiple feedback loops - society/culture/enviornment affecting human behavior/psychology and human behavior/psychology affecting society/culture/environment.
Also, I would recomment you study/reference REAL history from ANTHROPOLOGY (i.e. what human nature was during the hunter-gatherer periods) and how human nature EVOLVED.
Here are some links:
(1) Chris Harman->A People's History fo the World->https://www.marxists.org/archive/harman/1999/history/index.htm OR https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/185099.A_People_s_History_of_the_World
(2) The Part played by Labour in the Transition from Ape to Man (Works of Frederick Engels 1876) https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1876/part-played-labour/index.htm
It used to be, humans disagreed on the interpretation and analysis of history. But now we have REAL history from ANTHROPOLOGY, and also Engels, no such disagreement is necessary.
? Don't really follow your comment. Anthropology is constantly evolving as new technology becomes available that enables us to fine-tune our interpretations of history.
Again, there is no "ONE" HISTORY or "REAL" history. There are "interpretations" of HISTORY. There is NO ultimate arbiter that says "this history is true and this history is false". That's not how history works.
As new archival information becomes available (and with better technology and archeological discoveries), history is CONSTANTLY being revised and re-interpreted (till the end of time).
I'm not thr one insisting that REAL history would lead to support my conclusion.
Fair enough, I should rephrase my statement with "read MORE history" from multiple sources. Then use critical thinking to analyze that thinking.
Also, the HISTORY we are talking about (ANTHROPOLOGY) is not JUST HISTORY. It is ALSO SCIENCE. Hence, history is often revised based on scientific evidence.
The barbaric horror continues. I feel numb with disgust.
"Laila al-Khatib was shot in the head by Israeli forces in Jenin, because I guess they needed one more dead Palestinian kid". We join Caitlin in lamenting the dead children of Gaza.
In the rest of the Western world it is Holocaust Remembrance Day marking the 80th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz. World leaders are flocking to Poland to commemorate the day.
The irony and the heartlessness of commemorating a holocaust while aiding and abetting a present day genocide seem to be completely lost on them. What have they become....
They haven't been inviting Russia for a few years now. That is, the actual liberators are excluded.
Hence, they don't commemorate, they celebrate.
Thank you russian_bot for pointing out my omission. A glaring one. That Auschwitz was liberated by the Soviet Red Army doesn't often get a mention in the mainstream discourse, is all the more reason that we should point it out again and again.
Not only " the actual liberators are excluded ", they are being subjected to a US/West proxy war to destroy and balkanise the Russian Federation.
In the not so distant future these truths may even be erased from their books.
"The irony and heartlessness ... " and the hypocrisy and evilness.
That which they were accused of, Indu? Too glib, I know. But they certainly consistently display the ‘monstrous’ genocidal behaviours of their former persecutors in pursuit of their own version of ‘lebensraum’. As Caitlin’s horrific angel vision shows, that level of group consciousness is a harbinger of universal death.
The irony is not lost on us
The conscientious world lives in horror; watching unbelievable atrocities being perpetrated by monsters.
We have lost all sovereignty in our own country. The monsters have bribed our representatives in government turning them into monsters. In our silence we, too, have become monsters.
Under the layers of deception coils the core of Evil. It is a pale-faced Khazarian with an adopted, fake-Semitic name. To it, the rest of the world is Amalek and must be murdered.
That photo is one of the saddest things I have ever seen. So beautiful a child.
The other was a father holding his dead baby. Never before had I seen such depths of grief.
I fear I have seen such things before . The ongoing genocide of Palestinians by Israelis has been going on for decades .
Little Laila al-Khatib is so beautiful, so innocent, and so peaceful. It breaks my heart. I cannot even cry. It is sad beyond belief. Cannot even imagine the agony and pain that her mother is now going through. This photo also epitomizes the utter ugliness of the west=israel.
I want to turn into a specially bioengineered virus targeted at the cerebral neurons of Israeli Zionists, cross reactive with those of Christian Zionists. I'm a virus that invades those neurons then pile-drives into their mitochondria, shutting down bioenergy production such that a slow slide to dementia occurs as neurons shut down one by one -- turning the devils into blubbering idiots unable to either control their excretory functions or make any homicidal decisions.
Fantastic suggestion Vin LoPresti! I'll join you in converting myself into such a virus that can destroy Zionism from the inside at the cellular level!
Count me in as well, Chang!
Just make them pacifistic, blowing kisses instead of blowing up people and homes. We could all live with that.
Yes indeed, Joy, magic bioengineering. If I could pull off that level of sophistication, I'd be showered with offers by Pharma (UGH).
Evil
I cannot write any better than what Caitlin expressed today. It reaches the heart and soul of me. I will mention Dr. Gabor Mate. He often speaks of all what is happening in Gaza and Westbank and that it affects all of us. It affects the whole world. I do not understand why the whole world cannot stop these horrific crimes..not only since Oct 7th but going back decades. How can one ethnic group control the whole world? Why are we all so paralyzed by it. Why are we so helpless. Caitlins newsletter is really the place that always says it like it is. My mother was originally from Quebec however she married an American and I was born in the US of A. And, of course I grew up being told it is the best, the most important etc. Today I have dual and do not want that. I do not even want to tell anyone where I was born. I am so ashamed. Many countries are complicit in bombing Gaza and Westbank...how is that possible that it is ignored! Why can;t the world stop this? As I sit in my warm bed and write this, I feel so sad, guilty of having the life I have and yet feel so helpless. Why can't the world stop this ethnic group from the crimes they are committing and seems like they will continue to do so. I cry easily. Once you know things...or learn about them..it is impossible to unlearn it. Sorry. I think these comments are supposed to be much short than this.
Thank-you for your comment, who says comments must be short, this is not X, I applaud you for sharing so much. I share much of your anguish, but do not be ashamed of awaking to the reality of what harms have perpetrated by your country and countermen, yes once you know a truth you can not unknow it. Yes, keep asking why, why does the world not put an end to this suffering?Why does the world tolerate such belligerency? Please continue to ask why, because not enough people have awaken to the truth yet.
Thank you Denyse for sharing your thoughts! I too have similar ones. I empathize with you in solidarity.
Feel every word of your comment, it's how i feel
Denyse, you are expressing exactly what many of us feel: GUILT that we are not capable of stopping this holocaust!
Each morning as I wake up, I wonder how many Palestinians did not do so. When I prepare dinner, I wonder if they have anything at all to eat. When my knee is bothering me, I consider that at least I have my legs. And on and on.
Thank you for your profound comment.
Atrocious
The nuns couldn’t convince me there was such a thing as demons, pure evil, but the Zionists have gone a long way to doing it.
Hi SW
I attended Catholic school myself, and have long since dismissed the notion of god, demons/devils, heaven and hell.
What I believe the Ziopaths are, are vampires. They appear essentially human, but they are not. They subsist on their bloodlust.
Is there no.end to the nightmare?
No, I honestly believe there isn’t ……l too have no words left….
Please think otherwise. The Palestinians don't feel that way, surely none of us has the right to deny them the vision of a future well past this moment, one with dignity, and an end to the suffering.
Joy in HK, I like what you have written and hope that time will come for the Palestinians.
We need to make today, Monday January 27th, Gaza Holocaust Remembrance Day.
Thank You Caitlin
And Tim Foley too, Jim. I feel the pressures on them, individually and as a team are immense. And soul-wrenching withal. I have been enriched by their work, and in awe of their enduring commitment.
Words fail me.