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jamenta's avatar

Chanted at a pro-peace rally in New York city today:

ISRAEL BOMBS! US PAYS!

HOW MANY KIDS HAVE YOU KILLED TODAY!!?

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The Revolution Continues's avatar

My fave so far: "Stop the killing! Stop the hate! Israel is an apartheid state!"

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russian_bot's avatar

And the police indifferently stands by and waits for when it's time to arrest a few for trespassing, if indeed they are. Democracy on display and in full force.

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bill wolfe's avatar

Dr. King's "demonic suction tube" has become Joe Biden's swing state jobs reelection program - massacres made in America - and that's fact:

https://bwolfe.substack.com/p/the-arc-of-biden-bends-toward-genocide

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Fran's avatar

Great article!

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Jeano's avatar

Good job!

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pretzelattack's avatar

a golden oldie from the Vietnam war

"Hey! Hey LBJ! HOW MANY KIDS DID YOU KILL TODAY"

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Lynn Faulkner's avatar

Yep, I was there. Now here we are all these years later.

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denny's avatar

And both were/are proxy wars.

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Lynn Faulkner's avatar

Caitlin, you are a voice for reason and responsibility.

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Timmy Taes's avatar

jamenta: The US taxpayers pay for everything.

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Paula's avatar

jamenta, can you say how many were at the rally?

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Paula's avatar

Rumble is banned here in France.

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russian_bot's avatar

Oops. Just use VPN then. There are free ones and you can connect from some other country.

This free version gives you the USA, the Netherlands, and Japan.

https://protonvpn.com/free-vpn

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JennyStokes's avatar

Yep. Can get transcripts for most articles.

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russian_bot's avatar

Rumble articles?

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JennyStokes's avatar

Racket news. sorry.

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russian_bot's avatar

One of their colors stands for liberté. My ass.

Unless, of course, the forum's French nobility (@JennyStokes I think) cuts in and explains that it is not what it seems. Just like one time out of the blue she launched to enlighten me what the other color - égalité - was about.

I'm actually frightened to ever mention the final one - fraternité.

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JennyStokes's avatar

I have been telling people we WERE banned from marching. Now our High Court has overturned this ban.

No we cannot get racket news but can get transcripts.

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Oct 29, 2023
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Paula's avatar

Thanks, Che, thanks Russkie, but you're talking to an 83-year-old US expat retired farmer who hasn't the vaguest idea what all this stuff is. I can just do email & subscribe to newsletters & watch videos on YooToob or Odyssee… (I found Caitlin years ago on Jimmy Dore on YT.) I just stumble along. Thanks again, & Cheers!

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Elisabeth's avatar

STAY STRONG (and enjoy life every day, who knows what is coming! I am a thorough pessimist Austrian expat living in the 'belly of the beast' and very ashamed about Austria's vote in the GenAssembly ...)

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russian_bot's avatar

No problem, Paula.

Here's a shorter version of that video on Odysee : https://odysee.com/@FreedomNTV:d/flood-wall-street-for-gaza-rally-nyc-2:8

Hope the French don't shut down that platform soon, the freedom-loving bunch they are.

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denny's avatar

You do realize Che was a terrorist...

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Oct 30, 2023
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jamenta's avatar

Yep that's it. Thx for the link.

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jamenta's avatar

I wasn't there. Just saw a clip on Al Jazeera which I find is providing the best mainstream news source on the ongoing mass murder by the Israelis. It was quite a few - a few thousand? You can probably google it.

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Feral Finster's avatar

Getting fooled is one thing. Continuing to double down is another.

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Literally Mussolini's avatar

Hence the purpose of Caitlin's essay. It is hard to admit when you're wrong, so she tries to help people understand that it is okay to change your mind.

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Judith Dyer's avatar

ha ha.....think this applies to TFFG's supporters?

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Judith Dyer's avatar

swear word added in

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Feral Finster's avatar

I figured that out but wasn't sure about the rest.

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Judith Dyer's avatar

the efing former guy

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russian_bot's avatar

Double down getting fooled, I presume. Nice one!

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Diana van Eyk's avatar

Thanks for making this important point. It can be hard to wade through the news and figure out what's actually going on.

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Thor Swayze's avatar

Pentagon Spokesman Says Our Focus Is On Ensuring That The Israeli Defense Forces Have What They Need To Butcher The Innocent Women & Children of Gaza! #GazaGenocide

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russian_bot's avatar

Almost in these exact words and the western populace is fine with it. Otherwise Pentagon would shut up.

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Lou's avatar

Israel, just like almost all govts of the world, are run by Deepstate cabal. I’d expect nothing less than the current atrocities happening

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Boris Petrov's avatar

At what point it is appropriate to state that Israel has a Nazi-dominated government?

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gypsy33's avatar

Yesterday, Boris.

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Boris Petrov's avatar

Or since killing of Rabin? Or even earlier?

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russian_bot's avatar

I must have missed it then.

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gypsy33's avatar

Where ya been, RB? Catch up! 😉

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russian_bot's avatar

Ever since you mentioned full lips and their benefits I've been thinking about the ways to.

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gypsy33's avatar

💋

I believe my lips have much to do with my Mediterranean heritage.

And my “girls” as well 😉

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Billy Masterson's avatar

@russian_bot

Collagen injections for keyboard warfare?

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Billy Masterson's avatar

@Boris Petrov

Not all murderous fascists are actual Nazis, despite the near universal Nazi™ brand name recognition- So never. Because the Israeli ruling junta are a totally different brand of murderous criminal fascist, despite using many of the actual Nazis methods.

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bill wolfe's avatar

I question whether people really understand how cynically depraved Joe Biden is.

In addition to green lighting this massacre, and seeking billions more to fund it, and prohibiting his State Department from even mentioning any cease fire negotiations, or vetoing a UN cease fire Resolution, or hugging murderer Bibi AFTER the hospital bombing, or questioning the death counts, et al, Biden actually used the White House bully pulpit to make a speech that touted the US weapons that are slaughtering Palestinians as a US JOBS PROGRAM and explicitly tied the jobs to SWING STATES as part of his re-election campaign. I don't think even the Nazi's, with their appeals to jobs for the Volk and promotion of German industrial revitalization, did that too blatantly and cynically. Read Biden's own words, he even specifically named the fucking swing states:

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2023/10/20/remarks-by-president-biden-on-the-unites-states-response-to-hamass-terrorist-attacks-against-israel-and-russias-ongoing-brutal-war-against-ukraine/#:~:text=So%20let%20me%20share%20with,and%20death%20and%20more%20destruction.

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Patrick Powers's avatar

How can you stand to read that stuff?

Was that the same speech where he called the wars an investment that would reap major dividends and would bring prosperity to our children?

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russian_bot's avatar

Oh yes, there are people who understand that about Joe Biden and all the rest of the western scum that's currently in power. They are also people who understand and realize the whole corruption and lies behind the western "democracy", "liberty", "freedom" and all that other shit that the majority of population spits out when asked about their western "values".

They also understand how powerless they really are, since the only way the scum will get removed is when it feels it on its skin. Literally. When bombs start flying and the scum's neighborhoods get obliterated. Only then. And no amount of demonstrating can move the scum in any way, until the destruction reaches it personally.

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Literally Mussolini's avatar

My contention about Joe Biden personally is that while he is depraved, he is--and always has been--too stupid to be cynical in his depravity.

Now the people who are behind him, with him as some bizarre figurehead, they are cynically depraved.

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Patrick Powers's avatar

I don't make such subtle distinctions.

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User's avatar
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Oct 29, 2023
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gypsy33's avatar

Che, he’s actually a cadaver propped up with cement in his shoes. And the Blinkin’ Idiot has his hand up the cadaver’s ass making his mouth (barely) move.

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pretzelattack's avatar

to be fair, he would have been a perfectly adequate, perhaps even above average monkey if he brain weren't turning into oatmeal.

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Ohio Barbarian's avatar

Joe Biden's always been depraved, but he's not making the decisions now. That's Jake Sullivan.

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bill wolfe's avatar

typo - should be "so blatantly and cynically"

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Little.Lambsie's avatar

No position is a position... no way can either side justify this horror. Peace ☮️

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Fran's avatar

You are willing to conflate the horror now imposed on Gaza, past and present, with the actions of Hamas, which I am in no way condoning? So, a little boy kicks a big boy really hard who has harassed and abused him for years and even stolen things from his room, even his bed, and the big boy is so furious he kills the child, he hurts his mother, kills his father, his sister, and wounds his big brother, and then sets fire to his house. So, I guess you must look at this and think, well, tit for tat.

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Indu Abeysekara's avatar

Fran, these days they call it proportionality .

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Fran's avatar

This country encourages black and white thinking, good, vs evil. Political shows, like FOX MSNBC and CNN and now the mainstream media provide that kind of perspective so you wind up with a bunch of dummies who see things in solely black and white terms, and of course you now have a religious element in play. The new speaker of the house in the US is scary. He has determined that China, Russia, and Iran are the axis of evil, and the US who has killed and displaced millions of Muslims based on lies is all good. God help us.

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gypsy33's avatar

And I’m sorry to say that I hope the new “Axis of Evil” comes after us.

There cannot possibly be peace on this beautiful planet until Amerikkka and Israhell disappear.

Boom.

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Fran's avatar

I'm not ready to die gypsy33, and with all due humility the world would be less beautiful without me.

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gypsy33's avatar

Fran, I don’t know what you look like, but you’re a beautiful person!

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Timmy Taes's avatar

Fran: Your comment is hilarious. How much humility are you due? Send a photo and see if the world thinks it would be less beautiful without you.

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Oct 29, 2023
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Fran's avatar

What did I say that makes you think I am an apologist for Hamas, or endorse them. God help me but you're not confusing me with Netanyahu, and if you are how dare you. https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

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Oct 29, 2023
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Fran's avatar

No one is excusing what Hamas did, and I certainly did not, and if you read the article, which I doubt, you will see that Netanyahu certainly empowered them. Your tone is threatening and I see you as abusive and do not respond to my posts. I hope I am making myself very clear.

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Paula's avatar

Murdered innocent people, yes; no rapes reported (except on legacy propaganda media). Murder is bad enough; do you propagandists need to spread it on any thicker?

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Oct 28, 2023
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gypsy33's avatar

And the West Bank.

Today a Palestinian man harvesting his olives was shot dead by a squatter.

Will he be brought to Justice? You and I both know the answer to that.

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martin's avatar

there are indeed reports that at least a few of the murders came about through 'friendly fire'. this article also mentions the 'hannibal directive': https://new.thecradle.co/articles/survivor-of-hamas-assault-says-israeli-army-undoubtedly-killed-their-own-civilians

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Oct 29, 2023
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martin's avatar

i probably was indeed being overtly cautious.

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Jack Lomax's avatar

It's fine to admit that you have been mislead by the strongest and best tuned propaganda outfit in the world . And It is OK if until recently you didn't realise that Zionist Israel has an unbreakable link with the US via the many many powerful Zionists in America. And it is OK if you have always unconsciously felt that little white American babies are more adorable than little underfed underbathed Gazan babies. But now is the time to waken up and protest to try to protect these poor little underfed kids. Tomorrow may be too late

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Timmy Taes's avatar

Jack Lomax: No. It isn't okay to be mislead by the "strongest and best tuned propaganda outfit in the world."

If people haven't figured out by now that everything they see from government and the media is a lie then they are stone cold stupid.

There's no fixing stupid.

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unwarranted's avatar

I think a racist worldview is at the root of Israeli politics and militarism, from day one. I’ve spoken with Israeli civilians who argued that the survival of their country is an incontrovertible imperative. That perspective implicitly means that Israel can do ANYTHING and its citizens will be on board. The common explanation for the non-politic rationale was “what happened in Germany justifies anything we do...”

I really believe that this bias informs everything we learn about how committed Jews in support of Israel rig elections in foreign countries and massively fund propaganda campaigns in the U.S. and Europe. AIPAC was behind the erasure of Jeremy Corbyn.

Today we are getting countries like Germany and England passing laws to make protests in support of the Palestinians illegal. Public employees in the U.S. are prohibited under threat of termination from supporting BDS.

And now criticism of Israel is “antisemitic, Zionism is synonymous with Judaism, and the western embrace of of genocide is not to be questioned. So now authoritarian leaders like Orban and Erdogan are seizing the moral high ground by simply stating what the world knows to be true.

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JennyStokes's avatar

In France we were banned from protesting but the Hugh Court has overturned this.

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unwarranted's avatar

I’m not naive about France’s government, but I’ve long believed that the French public understand that democracy doesn’t survive in a corporate-controlled political culture. If Americans had a scintilla of French right-to-protest, right-to-assemble, right-to-defy logic, the planet would be a lot less dominated by money and propaganda.

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gypsy33's avatar

I admire the French proclivity to riot about just about anything.

Mick Jagger was in Paris when a riot ensued and it was there that he wrote “Street Fighting Man”.

“ Cause you see in London Town there’s just no place for a street fighting man…”

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Literally Mussolini's avatar

FWIW, I agree with you--most notably, your first sentence.

Edit: About your paragraph 3, I find these laws against protest in purportedly "enlightened" countries abhorrent. (To wit, if you scan the comments to this essay and notice a "Like" or two on the few "pro-Israel" posts and wonder, "Who reading Caitlin's essays could 'Like' these posts?", it was me, for one. I am a free-speech absolutist.)

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unwarranted's avatar

I think it’s too easy to infer that a “like”represents support for the content of a post, so your free-speech idealism will probably be missed or misconstrued.

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Literally Mussolini's avatar

Yep, but it encourages people to say what's on their mind, which I want to know. Inscrutable people concern me more.

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Ohio Barbarian's avatar

That does seem to be the prevalent Israeli attitude. As an American, my response is simple--Don't ask me to PAY for it! Cut off all American aid to Israel. Do that, and the apartheid state's days are numbered in the hundreds at most.

Before anyone says "That will never happen," until a few days ago nobody thought they would see American Jews occupying a Capitol office building and shutting down Grand Central Station while demanding a ceasefire and telling Israel "Not in our name!"

It WILL happen now. It's inevitable. I don't know exactly when, but it's a matter of years at most, not decades. Israel just destroyed itself and doesn't even know it.

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gypsy33's avatar

I admire Caitlin’s faith that some people admit to themselves that they’ve gotten it wrong.

But this will likely only occur if Amerikkkans abandon the MSM and begin reading Consortium News, RT, Al Jazeera, Antiwar.com, etc.

Amerikkkans are so ignorant and lazy in their thinking that they’ve no idea that the MSM is nothing more than a parrot of the US Guvvmint.

The late Peter Jennings, the last of the great news anchors, said as much during a broadcast during the Iraq War. I saw it myself. He said that they were not allowed to say a thing unless it was approved by the WH.

What a country! Ain’t freedom great?

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Literally Mussolini's avatar

Excuse me. What's that? It was fourth-and-goal, and I missed what you said.

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ItcheBrain's avatar

Under that ruble are humans, it's easy to forget that. These photos are documentation of war crimes, each and every one

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russian_bot's avatar

"Under that ruble are humans..." - you might have intended "under that dollar".

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ItcheBrain's avatar

No doubt dollar bills helped pay for all this fucked up carnage

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GME's avatar

"We’re all waking up, one pair of eyelids at a time." I *really* hope that you are right.

The alternative is too painful to contemplate.

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Timmy Taes's avatar

GME: The people who don't wake up may end up with their eyelids closed permanently.

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The Talking Wombat's avatar

My opinion of the Israel/Palestine has evolved. For decades I fell for propaganda published by the corporate media. It was easy and I had minimal interest in international affairs. It has only been within the past ten years or so that I took the time to read and learn and increase my understanding of the imperialistic project implemented by the US. As you write, and Tim reads so meaningfully, it's okay to admit I was wrong about this. I intend to keep reading and watching independent media sources and most importantly, I Intend to keep learning and teaching others.

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Literally Mussolini's avatar

I probably need to see a shrink, because I think a talking wombat is stealing my thoughts.

(Only difference is that my father was a Jew and staunchly pro-Israel, so I was steeped in this long before corporate media had a chance to get ahold of my brain.)

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gypsy33's avatar

No, it’s just telepathy 🙂

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gypsy33's avatar

Hi Wombat

I highly recommend a book I read as a teenager ( and I still have it) called “Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee”. It was the beginning of my activism for displaced peoples.

The parallels between what the Anglos did to the Native Americans and what the Zionists are doing to the Palestinians are uncanny.

The author is Dee Brown.

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The Talking Wombat's avatar

Thank you, gypsy33! I used to own that book (I bet I was in my late teens or early 20s when I acquired it.) but lost it during my many life moves. I never read the book though you reaffirm that I need to. I am aware of the similarities; they are undeniable. I will follow through on your suggestion. Thank you for sharing. Blessings!

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Les's avatar

The Washington - London - Brussels Cultivated Masters of Present Realities face a convergence of crises now coalescing in a place called The Immediate Future, entirely of their exclusive confection.

They claimed primacy over world events, a reality that was sustained for hundreds of years as those countries outside of The AngloSphere were militarily too weak to take them on. Of Russian and China, that reality has gone past due. For other smaller, now client states of Russian and China, this will apply as they construct their armed forces capabilities with superior Russian and Chinese systems and eject the Western Colonial Occupiers.

_________

The Long View. All successful Settler Colonial Projects must necessarily turn to the complete elimination of prior residents and the rubric of Democracy is a real threat in that when outnumbered (if allowed to come to that), they lose the vote and the majority in The Parliament. There is only one way around this and this is what goes down now. They've bought the ticket.

"Think no longer that you are in command here, But rather think how, when you were, You served your own destruction" - Sophocles' Oedipus Rex:

_________

Just how might the Israeli State take the ride, that is, the ride down - not necessarily a saturation missile attack from the north, not to be entirely discounted, but a slow economic collapse from the majority of states outside of The Anglosphere refusing to trade with them. The Anglosphere, excluding Asian vassal states, amounts to around 10% of world population but far less in terms of resources and industrial power. That majority speak neither English nor European languages.

Frankly, The West's armies were never that good and mostly engaged in eliminating native village populations (Africa, India, China, S.E. Asia, West Asia) who presented as no match, until the latter organized or the colonial projects became no longer cost effective.

_________

The Washington - London - Brussels War Machine now faces a crisis of serial losses, most recently The Yemen Proxy War (over 300,000 dead), Afghanistan, Syria, The Ukraine Proxy War (about a million Ukrainian Armed Forces dead when it finally washes out), now Israel and with nowhere to turn but their nearly derailed original Big Project - War with China.

War with China is war with Russia and China and Iran.

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derwood kirkwood's avatar

Caitlin, you are a dreamer. To blame Israel for the mess of Gaza is, frankly, either intellectually dishonest, or utterly ignorant of fact.

Yes, it sucks civilians are being killed. That's war. You can dream of a world where war doesn't happen, but, that is a dream. The realityis 6 million Jews were gassed because they were Jews. Germany and Japan were defeated because the Allies inhilated those populations, until they lost the will to fight. That is war.

The Palistinians elected Hamas. Hamas main and only objective is obliteration of Israel. They massacred over 1000 innocents. That is actually of war, and when war happens, the victor is the one who destroys the adversary's will to fight . So, it sucks what's happening. But that's war, and Palestinians brought it up on themselves.

You blaming Israel is nonsensical

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martin's avatar

do you think those 6 million jews brought the gassing upon themselves for being jews (often with socialist tendencies)? (there were also 27 million godless communist slavs discontinued). imo, it is pretty clear that israel's objective has always been the genocide of the palestinian people. israelis elected the governments executing that plan. would this inspire you to revise your opinion that hamas massacred over 1000 'innocents'? have you noticed that your opinions coincide with israeli and us state department positions?

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derwood kirkwood's avatar

I did not make my point clear. Foremost, my point is, the situation is about the human tradition and culture of war. I don't advocate war, or like war. But, war is a defining aspect of humanity, whether we like it or not.

My point about the Holocaust was that it greatly influences the outlook of the Israeli side...their history is none of being beaten/murdered, and now they simply won't put up with it. Hence their motive to war.

What is notably absent from the comments on this board, as well as Caitlin's analysis, is any blame at all on Hamas, or Palestinians. As I pointed out, the Israelis have motives for why war is the only recourse....whether you or I or Catlin agree with those motives is not the point. Well, so too Hamas and the Palestinians. Do you honestly believe Hamas and Iran, and all those against Israel that had a hand in tie 10/7 attacks did not understand the provocation they will and deliberately did? They too want war. I assume they believe the time is right to settle their grievances and motives that are behind their quest for war.

So both sides are responsible. Period. That is my point. You are misguided to believe one side has the moral high ground. Neither does. And, once humans commit to total war, all the handwringing about killing babies and civilians is irrelevant in the context of war, which is what both sides have chosen. Will you shed any tears if the Palestinian side uses a WMD on the Israelis? Doubtful. You will say they deserved it . But, when Israelis commit equal acts of war, they are at fault. That is hypocrisy.

Finally, are you aware your views toe the propaganda line for destroying the West?

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martin's avatar

traditions and cultures can be changed. imo, war is only a 'definining aspect of humanity' because the powerful want it that way.

i understand the trauma of the holocaust for the jewish people and i understand how it is constantly exploited by all kinds of leaders (jewish and others).

imo israel has no legitimate motives for regarding war as the only recourse and only israel is to blame for what has occured. only israel (and some zealous evangelicals - remember bush's 'gog and magog' episode) has really always wanted this war, imo, as their extensive record of steering away from any peaceful compromise demonstrates (they were very much encouraged by the unwavering support of the us, of course). for hamas, otoh, it truly was a last resort (tried oslo-negotiations, long march, bds, ...).

no both-sidesism, as far as i am concerned. keeping in mind the reports that israel 'created' hamas i do not feel misguided to believe hamas somewhat has the moral high ground in the current developments. imo, there's always just one side (a 'class' i think) that chooses war. the palestinian side has not used wmd (a preloaded notion - deceptively introduced to excuse another pre-emptive war). israel is doing it right now, they are at fault.

i am fully aware that the war-mongering system sooner or later invokes the idea of a 'clash of civilizations' ("they want to destroy the west", which generally turns out to be "they are in the way of my profits and i want you or some other poor sods to die for that") to rally the plebs.

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gypsy33's avatar

The west needs destroying.

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gypsy33's avatar

According to your logic, then, Native Americans have the right to take over a country and subjugate the inhabitants.

The descendants of African slaves have the right to take over a country and subjugate the inhabitants.

The Australian aboriginals have the right to… I think you get my drift.

JEWS do not OWN the word “holocaust”!

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Robert Billyard's avatar

“The man who never alters his opinion is like standing water, and breeds reptiles of the mind.”― William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven and Hell

I can think of a long list of morons in Washington who have reptilian minds.

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Literally Mussolini's avatar

Maybe there's something to the characterization of a "Swamp".

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