100% agree. Many of these empire targetted countries dare not even have a little more democracy because the moment they allow any sizeable voice of opposition to exist, the West’s CIA, MI6 and Mossad will immediately make use of that opposition to try to destabilise the country and to make it into a puppet state.
"...as though Iran would look the way it looks today if the US and Israel had not been working to collapse and control it for generations."
This is like blaming an abused wife for screaming and acting out at the drop of a leaf. They've been living under a stressful and violent threat for years now and are coping the best they can. Westerners who have been bullying other countries can stfu as far as I'm concerned. They have no moral leg to stand on.
Seriously this is the sort 1990s “look at both sides” crap that got us the brutal Iraq sanctions that was responsible for the deaths of 500,000 children.
The Iraq and Afghanistan invasions.
Libya's destruction.
The constant destruction of Venezuela, Sudan with no one pointing fingers to the governments, using the people’s money to kill other people.
I 100% agree with this. America has done more to destroy the world in the last 150 years, then even the European powers did over 400 years (and I’m not minimizing the terrible atrocities of the European monarchy’s). This country needs a reckoning of our atrocities and we need to answer for our crimes in a new world order.
I notice the comments indicate the commenters have no idea what Iran is like within the country. It's a functioning Republic and the people adored the Ayatollah the US murdered for Israel. He was their mentor and father figure. It is NOT a repressive country. It has never attacked anyone nor assassinated anyone, ever. That's what the CIA, Mosad, Shin Bet, MI6 does all the time, all over the world. I've been there recently and loved the people, who told me the women, their wives "rule the roost " laughing as they told me. They speak freely, as in Russia and China, inlike the west where one is put in jail for talking about Israel as it is, the most evil country in all of human history. We don't have democracy and freedom. The Iranians do. Russia and China do, too. Yes, I've been there, too. Putin is beloved. No, he doesn't kill people. I notice the propaganda is widespread and as Goebels said, if people hear a lie 26 times, they think it's true. The Chinese are the most advanced in modern technology and production. Xi Jinping brought 300 million people out of poverty and into the middle class. Russia did the same for 70 million. Russia, like Cuba, has excellent healthcare and education for all. In China one must pay for healthcare, but businesses are being told to offer healthcare insurance. BTW, The only people with free healthcare are the Uyghurs in schools for disabled children. Saw it myself. Go, I get so sick of US, Israel propaganda. Makes me want to throw up. My favorite country I've been to is Cuba. Who has bravely withstood the odious US who wants "their" Havana back. Narco Marco is determined to attack those good people. We must stop him. BTW, if you want to see what countries are like, go there.
CJ>>"It’s crazy this even needs to be said, but if you are a westerner your ONLY job is to oppose the abuses of the western empire. Not Iran. Not China. Not Russia, Cuba or North Korea."
and
CJ>>"If you live in the US or one of its allied nations, then you live under the single most tyrannical and murderous power structure on earth, and that’s where your focus belongs."
YES! Caitlin, I agree with you 100% !!!
Also, "The western empire therefore makes the world a crueler and more abusive place not only by its direct acts of cruelty and abuse, but by the way it forces its targets to choose between (A) annihilation and (B) using extreme amounts of force to retain their sovereignty."
This is SO IMPORTANT to understand, and most people miss it.
Right, Susan! Abso-lutely, cobber! The way we continue to pay obeisance to the Yanks is not just nauseating, but dangerous. Our fearless leaders are so far up the Orange Lard-butt we can't see their toes. The lunatic pronouncements of His Orangeness and his sycophants are heard without demur in 'Straya. Our weak-kneed response to Israeli genocide and associated crimes is embarrassing, but to profess support for the Palestinian cause is to be accused of supporting terrorism. I'm extremely pissed off with what is laughably labelled a 'centre-left' government, and I suspect increasing numbers of us feel similarly.
Yes. I hope more people learn that it's their job to work to influence (or take down and replace) the one government they have an opportunity to impact--their own!
Why aren't these "left wing individuals" more concerned with the political prisoners of "Israel"? The totally innocent children, women and men who are being abused in every conceivable way possible and now face the prospect of apartheid "hanging" without hearing just as they're in tortuous confinement without charge or hearing?
100% agree. Do Westerners ever reflect on why indigenous Americans were killed by European settlers? I suspect it’s because European settlers focus on shortcomings of indigenous peoples, thereby giving cover (if not legitimacy) to settler violence towards indigenous peoples.
I make it a rule not to intervene in the political affairs of other nations. That is because I believe that even the most idealistic and well intentioned foreign interventions (take for example the International Brigades in the Spanish Civil War) tend to have unsatisfactory outcomes.
Having said that, if you really want a more liberal, western-style Iran there is one thing you must do: you must vigorously, with all your heart and mind, oppose the western war against Iran.
And there is one thing you must not do: you must not in any way collaborate with or give comfort to those who are waging war against Iran.
The reason for these two simple rules lies in the political dynamic of Iranian society, which is known to all those who have had any experience of Iran and its people. When Iran comes under outside pressure, whether military, economic, or diplomatic, the conservative Shia faction is strengthened, and the liberal secularists lose ground. That is a fact, plain for all to see over the course of this year.
The Guardian's open letter will not move the Shia clerical establishment a single centimeter. It will only stiffen their resolve.
Don't get the idea that I am hostile to the religious conservatives. I am not at all. I simply see that Iran has its own ways of resolving social, religious and political issues, and that those ways work best in the total absence of outside interference. I believe that is true of most nations, but it is particularly true of Iran.
#47 may be dumb, but our Intelligence and National Security establishments are well aware of the dynamic you mention: internal support for a regime grows when a country is under external attack, as--often--does that regime's felt need to rely on repression. Plenty of examples elsewhere as well. One can only conclude that that is the intention of the policy makers. Perhaps because it strengthens the case at home for stronger intervention and installing a "friendly" regime.
This is an assault on those of us who identify as citizens of the world, on critical thinking with a single standard, and a classic example of false choices. The struggle against injustice is not about taking sides but about fighting it, in whatever ways we can, wherever it exists Often in war, as with the USSR and Germany, or Russia and the Ukraine both sides are evil. It is not a football game wher you take sides, and the only side worth taking is peace. My tiny voice is as ineffective in opposing Western imperialism as it is in opposing Middle Eastern theocratic authoritrianism, but my positon is that when we see evil, we speak out. To argue we should not is to forget that silence is complicity. The argument Caitlin makes is a form of gatekeeping, and the only gatedeeping I would support is banning the gatekeepers. If you see evil, speak itou; where it is more evil, speak out more, but do not fall for the doncept that we by being born in the West are denied the duty to speak out against evil, wherever it exists. that is our duty and do not let anyone tell you you have no right to apply the same standars to the Western war machine as the theocratic autocracies they sometimes attack, for they do not attack the authoritriansism but rather use that as an excuse to try to steal the oil. Being attacked for control of the oil, or for geopolitical reasons, does not deny us the right to criticiz oppressive regimes, even while we struggle to end the attacks. Do not let anyone tell you whom you can criticize........that is an attempt to control you. It is morally consistent to accuse Isreael of genocide of the Palestinian people without denying yourself the right to criticize Hamas, a theocratic and unelected organization with deep connections to capitaism and by being supported by Israel for 14 yrs, is, in a veery rewal sense, "controlled opposition." The Reason Israel does not want peace with Palestinie is that the ruling regime, which propped up Hamas,needs war, and you cannot havew war without an enemy And so Netanayahu and his genocidal fascist allies need Hamss, as they did forr 14 years as an ally of controlledl oppositon and today, as the official enemy which will, despite the "ceasefire (1200 killed)" will continue and so Hamas becomes, once again, a tool of the Israeli fascists......that is the way I see it, and if anhone telld me that the same regime that kept Hamas in power because it has now destroed Gaza (without destroying Hamas), is the reason I cannot criticize Hamas, I have to say, with all due respect, no way, Jose. My support for justice for Palestinians requires both speaking out against both Israel and the party they created and supported and need to stay in power. And I will not let anyone tell me I have no right to speak out because of where I was born.....or offer the false choice of being for or against the Iranian theocracy or the Russian autocracy....for there is only one standard that app;lies to all injustices and it is not based on where one is born or which party attacked which but soley on the defense of the people and criticism of those who attack them and thoser who serve as the reason for the attack, as controlled oppsiton. Just as Israel felt it needed Hamas, Hamas needed Israeli's upp;ort to surive. I damn them both.
100% agree. Many of these empire targetted countries dare not even have a little more democracy because the moment they allow any sizeable voice of opposition to exist, the West’s CIA, MI6 and Mossad will immediately make use of that opposition to try to destabilise the country and to make it into a puppet state.
"Iran has only survived the latest imperial onslaught because Tehran tightly controls what happens in that country."
This is entirely correct, and the same can be said for Russia and other countries that the Empire doesn't like.
Of course, the Empire cynically uses this as propaganda against those countries, while destabilizing them, the moment they let their guard down.
Congratulations on agreeing with somebody for a change, Feral!
:)
"...as though Iran would look the way it looks today if the US and Israel had not been working to collapse and control it for generations."
This is like blaming an abused wife for screaming and acting out at the drop of a leaf. They've been living under a stressful and violent threat for years now and are coping the best they can. Westerners who have been bullying other countries can stfu as far as I'm concerned. They have no moral leg to stand on.
Seriously this is the sort 1990s “look at both sides” crap that got us the brutal Iraq sanctions that was responsible for the deaths of 500,000 children.
The Iraq and Afghanistan invasions.
Libya's destruction.
The constant destruction of Venezuela, Sudan with no one pointing fingers to the governments, using the people’s money to kill other people.
Sick of it.
I 100% agree with this. America has done more to destroy the world in the last 150 years, then even the European powers did over 400 years (and I’m not minimizing the terrible atrocities of the European monarchy’s). This country needs a reckoning of our atrocities and we need to answer for our crimes in a new world order.
💯, my blood boiled when I read it..
I notice the comments indicate the commenters have no idea what Iran is like within the country. It's a functioning Republic and the people adored the Ayatollah the US murdered for Israel. He was their mentor and father figure. It is NOT a repressive country. It has never attacked anyone nor assassinated anyone, ever. That's what the CIA, Mosad, Shin Bet, MI6 does all the time, all over the world. I've been there recently and loved the people, who told me the women, their wives "rule the roost " laughing as they told me. They speak freely, as in Russia and China, inlike the west where one is put in jail for talking about Israel as it is, the most evil country in all of human history. We don't have democracy and freedom. The Iranians do. Russia and China do, too. Yes, I've been there, too. Putin is beloved. No, he doesn't kill people. I notice the propaganda is widespread and as Goebels said, if people hear a lie 26 times, they think it's true. The Chinese are the most advanced in modern technology and production. Xi Jinping brought 300 million people out of poverty and into the middle class. Russia did the same for 70 million. Russia, like Cuba, has excellent healthcare and education for all. In China one must pay for healthcare, but businesses are being told to offer healthcare insurance. BTW, The only people with free healthcare are the Uyghurs in schools for disabled children. Saw it myself. Go, I get so sick of US, Israel propaganda. Makes me want to throw up. My favorite country I've been to is Cuba. Who has bravely withstood the odious US who wants "their" Havana back. Narco Marco is determined to attack those good people. We must stop him. BTW, if you want to see what countries are like, go there.
CJ>>"It’s crazy this even needs to be said, but if you are a westerner your ONLY job is to oppose the abuses of the western empire. Not Iran. Not China. Not Russia, Cuba or North Korea."
and
CJ>>"If you live in the US or one of its allied nations, then you live under the single most tyrannical and murderous power structure on earth, and that’s where your focus belongs."
YES! Caitlin, I agree with you 100% !!!
Also, "The western empire therefore makes the world a crueler and more abusive place not only by its direct acts of cruelty and abuse, but by the way it forces its targets to choose between (A) annihilation and (B) using extreme amounts of force to retain their sovereignty."
This is SO IMPORTANT to understand, and most people miss it.
Thank you Caitlin! 🙏❤️
Hard agree. If you are an Australian leftie, your focus should be closing down Pine Gap.
Right, Susan! Abso-lutely, cobber! The way we continue to pay obeisance to the Yanks is not just nauseating, but dangerous. Our fearless leaders are so far up the Orange Lard-butt we can't see their toes. The lunatic pronouncements of His Orangeness and his sycophants are heard without demur in 'Straya. Our weak-kneed response to Israeli genocide and associated crimes is embarrassing, but to profess support for the Palestinian cause is to be accused of supporting terrorism. I'm extremely pissed off with what is laughably labelled a 'centre-left' government, and I suspect increasing numbers of us feel similarly.
Yes. I hope more people learn that it's their job to work to influence (or take down and replace) the one government they have an opportunity to impact--their own!
Why aren't these "left wing individuals" more concerned with the political prisoners of "Israel"? The totally innocent children, women and men who are being abused in every conceivable way possible and now face the prospect of apartheid "hanging" without hearing just as they're in tortuous confinement without charge or hearing?
100% agree. Do Westerners ever reflect on why indigenous Americans were killed by European settlers? I suspect it’s because European settlers focus on shortcomings of indigenous peoples, thereby giving cover (if not legitimacy) to settler violence towards indigenous peoples.
I make it a rule not to intervene in the political affairs of other nations. That is because I believe that even the most idealistic and well intentioned foreign interventions (take for example the International Brigades in the Spanish Civil War) tend to have unsatisfactory outcomes.
Having said that, if you really want a more liberal, western-style Iran there is one thing you must do: you must vigorously, with all your heart and mind, oppose the western war against Iran.
And there is one thing you must not do: you must not in any way collaborate with or give comfort to those who are waging war against Iran.
The reason for these two simple rules lies in the political dynamic of Iranian society, which is known to all those who have had any experience of Iran and its people. When Iran comes under outside pressure, whether military, economic, or diplomatic, the conservative Shia faction is strengthened, and the liberal secularists lose ground. That is a fact, plain for all to see over the course of this year.
The Guardian's open letter will not move the Shia clerical establishment a single centimeter. It will only stiffen their resolve.
Don't get the idea that I am hostile to the religious conservatives. I am not at all. I simply see that Iran has its own ways of resolving social, religious and political issues, and that those ways work best in the total absence of outside interference. I believe that is true of most nations, but it is particularly true of Iran.
#47 may be dumb, but our Intelligence and National Security establishments are well aware of the dynamic you mention: internal support for a regime grows when a country is under external attack, as--often--does that regime's felt need to rely on repression. Plenty of examples elsewhere as well. One can only conclude that that is the intention of the policy makers. Perhaps because it strengthens the case at home for stronger intervention and installing a "friendly" regime.
https://susanabulhawa.substack.com/p/response-to-an-open-letter-in-the?r=qk6nn&utm_medium=ios
This is an assault on those of us who identify as citizens of the world, on critical thinking with a single standard, and a classic example of false choices. The struggle against injustice is not about taking sides but about fighting it, in whatever ways we can, wherever it exists Often in war, as with the USSR and Germany, or Russia and the Ukraine both sides are evil. It is not a football game wher you take sides, and the only side worth taking is peace. My tiny voice is as ineffective in opposing Western imperialism as it is in opposing Middle Eastern theocratic authoritrianism, but my positon is that when we see evil, we speak out. To argue we should not is to forget that silence is complicity. The argument Caitlin makes is a form of gatekeeping, and the only gatedeeping I would support is banning the gatekeepers. If you see evil, speak itou; where it is more evil, speak out more, but do not fall for the doncept that we by being born in the West are denied the duty to speak out against evil, wherever it exists. that is our duty and do not let anyone tell you you have no right to apply the same standars to the Western war machine as the theocratic autocracies they sometimes attack, for they do not attack the authoritriansism but rather use that as an excuse to try to steal the oil. Being attacked for control of the oil, or for geopolitical reasons, does not deny us the right to criticiz oppressive regimes, even while we struggle to end the attacks. Do not let anyone tell you whom you can criticize........that is an attempt to control you. It is morally consistent to accuse Isreael of genocide of the Palestinian people without denying yourself the right to criticize Hamas, a theocratic and unelected organization with deep connections to capitaism and by being supported by Israel for 14 yrs, is, in a veery rewal sense, "controlled opposition." The Reason Israel does not want peace with Palestinie is that the ruling regime, which propped up Hamas,needs war, and you cannot havew war without an enemy And so Netanayahu and his genocidal fascist allies need Hamss, as they did forr 14 years as an ally of controlledl oppositon and today, as the official enemy which will, despite the "ceasefire (1200 killed)" will continue and so Hamas becomes, once again, a tool of the Israeli fascists......that is the way I see it, and if anhone telld me that the same regime that kept Hamas in power because it has now destroed Gaza (without destroying Hamas), is the reason I cannot criticize Hamas, I have to say, with all due respect, no way, Jose. My support for justice for Palestinians requires both speaking out against both Israel and the party they created and supported and need to stay in power. And I will not let anyone tell me I have no right to speak out because of where I was born.....or offer the false choice of being for or against the Iranian theocracy or the Russian autocracy....for there is only one standard that app;lies to all injustices and it is not based on where one is born or which party attacked which but soley on the defense of the people and criticism of those who attack them and thoser who serve as the reason for the attack, as controlled oppsiton. Just as Israel felt it needed Hamas, Hamas needed Israeli's upp;ort to surive. I damn them both.
The list of "left wing individuals" had many surprising names on it. More incomprehensible behaviour.