I think that those values were a myth, just ask the indigenous people, treaties broken, people murdered, land taken, freedom denied, no justice, and never the truth. I certainly wish it had been the values you proposed.
They are certainly a myth as far as rulers are concerned, and they are careful to promote them as the real thing for the rubes down below. The fact that many ordinary folks realize that does not help. The system is such that nothing can be done.
Myth isn't a synonym for all fiction. Myth is a special kind of fiction that is fundamental to a society's self-identity and values. Ukraine, for example, is a myth of the racial inferiority of the Russian people. It functions to manufacture an underclass and valorize action against them. The iPhone, for another example, is a myth of social complexity as a source of value, and functions to valorize obedience to management.
David Graeber's _Toward an Anthropological Theory of Value_ is essential reading for anyone who wants to understand values, value systems, and their consequences.
I think that you are unnecessarily despondent. Every person who says, "nothing can be done" denigrates Caitlin's work and furthers the establishment goals.
and for that reason every !@#$ mis-leader on the planet needs to throw away their suit which is inspired by the west, their electricity, their plumbing, and their computers/tv/security cameras. so if you are a slav then your in for a rude awakening of reality that has never been noticed by you.
Note that “western values” = values of colonisers. The values of the people who went to Africa and and Asia and South America and enslaved entire nations of people while claiming they were not colonising but “saving them”/“protecting them” with “western values”.
No sugar they speak with forked tongue and cannot be trusted to do what they say. Anywhere. Not even for their own people.
and before that there was Asian values. and in the case of Africa which is a long topic to cover. the Muslims were the first to colonize Africa. Africa doesn't even have its own name cuz it was butchered by the Arabs calling it "Alkebulan" then the European powers that collaborated with the Arabs later gave it the name "Africa" after a Roman general that served the Roman Army many centuries ago in Europe. so the people that blame European Imperialism for the displacement of the world should also blame the ones that collaborated with it like the Muslims who were actually the sole purpose of why the Age of Exploration happened with Christopher Columbus cuz Europeans could not go directly East cuz it was blocked by the Muslim Empires like the Ottomans so Europeans had to go West even though Columbus did not know that he did not touch the Far East to India for spices which was the original goal cuz he was ignorant of geography proper. in any case, war, invasion and competition is part of human nature and its not discriminated by race, class or culture.
Well, your history is a bit off. Europeans could not travel to the civilized East because the subcontinent was a primitive backwater of almost no economic interest whose major exports were furs and slaves. When China built the Forbidden City ambassadors and gifts were sent from as far away as Zimbabwe, but it was 20 years before Europe even heard about the event.
Columbus had a map, possibly from China via the libraries of Timbuktu. It showed the Spice Islands in approximately the correct locations in relation to Asia. His mistake was his belief that Ptolemy had correctly estimated the diameter of the Earth as considerably smaller than it actually is. If Ptolemy had been correct then Columbus would have landed in the Philippines rather than the Caribbean Islands. Even then he found people who looked like what he expected, using hammocks and tapa bark cloth, cannibal kings who raised humans like livestock. cinnamon (although a different variety) and a bunch of coincidental word similarities.
i have heard that Columbus took that map from a Muslim, probably a Moorish slave as his guide to try to sail to Asia. forgive me if i make certain mistakes on that part of telling past history. just trying to keep an open mind
It almost certainly came from the Muslim world, Europe was barely emerging from barbarism at the time and all the good map makers were using maps from North Africa to attempt to educate themselves about the larger world.
Two interesting things happened shortly before the time of Columbus, first was the importation of the navigational compass, probably from Chinese refugees from a change of dynasty (Tang? Forget now.) The Norse had previously used a very primitive version, kept as a trade secret, but it was fairly inaccurate and hard to use. The second was the appearance of the Portolano map, a map of the Mediterranean Sea and sometimes including the Black Sea or Red Sea, which was far beyond the then-current capabilities of Europe (or probably the Muslims). It showed ports and landmarks in **correct longitude**, frequently to within a fraction of a degree, and was slavishly copied for the next three centuries.
I know far too much trivia, but history is fun so that's OK.
Europe wasn't that bad. Marco Polo? Overland Easterly to everywhere. Power of Venetian trade? Columbus not that bad. Suppose Spain wanted better competitive trade route via West. Christo was Italian but he was happy to go. SO he made a mistake. How else does anyone learn anything? And re who called Africa Africa suggest they go find out after who or what or why that Roman general Scipio Africanus (if I'm not mistake) was called that. Might even get eaten by large rabbit in process.
any modern Arab that is Muslim that claims to be a victim of Western Imperialism should also acknowledge that the Muslim Empires at one time explored around the world and had an Empire of their own via the last remains of the Persian Empire. the Muslims traded with Europe and as well as invaded Europe many times during the Crusades as well as Muslim rule of the Iberian Peninsula for 800 years until they were kicked out by King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella during the Reconquista.
Well, your history is a bit off. Europeans could not travel to the civilized East because the subcontinent was a primitive backwater of almost no economic interest whose major exports were furs and slaves. When China built the Forbidden City ambassadors and gifts were sent from as far away as Zimbabwe, but it was 20 years before Europe even heard about the event.
Columbus had a map, possibly from China via the libraries of Timbuktu. It showed the Spice Islands in approximately the correct locations in relation to Asia. His mistake was his belief that Ptolemy had correctly estimated the diameter of the Earth as considerably smaller than it actually is. If Ptolemy had been correct then Columbus would have landed in the Philippines rather than the Caribbean Islands. Even then he found people who looked like what he expected, using hammocks and tapa bark cloth, cannibal kings who raised humans like livestock. cinnamon (although a different variety) and a bunch of coincidental word similarities.
In my 90th year, I often think back on past years to try and reconcile our old values, those mentioned in Caitlin's introduction, which seemed to me to be alive and well until the death of JFK. The big deal then was respect for opinions other than your own, determination to better understand everything around you as so many things were changing, so often. but most in a positive way. It was good with a future that had all the possibilities of peace , justice and understanding. But....
I will never forget the 1967 USS Liberty attack as a starting point for all that has happened since then. American pride took a big hit, and the enemy on that day went on to become the most corrupt influence the world has even seen, supported by Lyndon Johnson who turned his back on his own country and sold out his country's honour and decency to a foreign country.
That country now controls the United States of America.
A long time ago, indeed. But nothing has improved in the America we then knew under John Kennedy, now just the shadow of a respectable country and one solely motivated by the need for total power. That is what America has become today and will remain until the end of the US empire.
The USA will never change back to what is was intended to be and indeed was, until 1967.
There is a lot of pre-Kennedy history that has not been revealed until recently and it is only to be found in books written by courageous seekers and revealers of the truth.
Stephen Kinzer's book "The Brothers" about Allen and John Foster Dulles who were the prototypical neocons in the years following WWII as CIA Director (Allen) and Secretary of State (Foster).
Reading this book one can see the establishment of the deranged thinking and beliefs that seem to guide the U.S. State Department and CIA up until the present day.
It's ridiculous to suppose that such thinking and beliefs began with the Dulles brothers but they did a lot to inflict these beliefs on the rest of the world during their time in office and right up until the current day.
I see the beginning of the rise of the far right as the industrialists’ pressure on the DP at the 1944 DP Convention. Henry Wallace was running for re-election as VP, and it was widely believed that FDR’s health was failing and that the next VP would likely be the next President. Wallace was simpatico with FDR’s social programs, and, as they were widely appreciated throughout the country, the business elites knew Wallace could not serve a third term as FDR’s VP. So the money bought enough DP electoral votes at the convention to force the vote to a second ballot, and it was then that a one-term Senator from Missouri began to pivot away from economic justice. Harry Truman was a tool for the corporate elites, and his presidency marked the beginning of full-on demonization of the country that defeated Hitler. JFK mat well have been killed by his CIA Director, but there probably would not be a CIA in 1963 if Henry Wallace had not been the victim of a fixed election.
I don't know about 1967 or JFK as some turning point. The stuff had been happening well before that. The latest somewhat "encyclopedic" work to consult as a reference if nothing else is Whitney Webb's "One Nation Under Blackmail". Vol.1 covers happenings from the beginning of the 20th century.
It's a good starting point for anyone prone to researching stuff as there's tons of references to go on any tangent one wishes.
Well regarding Russia, JFK's plans eventually were to get along with Russia, but he was killed shortly after. Before that he adopted the anti-Russian agenda established by the previous administrations and CIA , but after the Bay of Pigs and the Cuban Missile crisis, and double crossed by the CIA he decided to settle on peace with Russia. Personally I think the CIA was involved in his death. Of course Johnson got us into the Vietnam war with the Bay of Tonkin lie. Since WWII we have more or less been on a war footing, and now we are driven by a neocon agenda established in the late 1990's, It's agenda was behind all our 21st century wars in the Middle East, and all based on lies. Biden is now pushing the neocon agenda in Ukraine, which was initiated under Obama in his support of a coup backed by neo-nazi's who helped drive the violence that ousted a pro Russian Yanukovich, as well as participating in the thousands of deaths of ethnic Russians in the Donbas region of Ukraine over a period of years. Biden and Zelensky are willing to use the people of Ukraine as human fodder, and both are hoping to drag this war out in order to wear Russia down. They seem blind to the reality their agenda could cause WWIII, and I think it will. Not to mention the inhumanity that drives them both and all those who support them.
I totally agree. I’m 59 and I was a month old in my mother’s arms when JFK was taken out. Everything I was told and taught, was one huge lie, I see. And what a great lie it is. It’s so, so sad...a “death” that I must adjust to. And, once awake, a Truthful person can never be put back to sleep. Especially now, God, like never before, is what allows me to have/keep what balance I have.
It is certainly out in the open these days, Renee, with the CIA in there as #1 suspect. But don't dismiss the fact that Kennedy did intend to eliminate the chances of Israel's attempts (at that stage) to progress further with their nuclear bomb making plans in Dimona, cancelled after his death by Johnson, the very same man who called back American fighter aircraft (which had already taken off) and which were tasked with trying to save the USS Liberty from being sunk by Israel. 1967. the year.
A motivation? Add that to the #1 suspect.
On June 8, 1967, 34 American servicemen were killed and 174 were wounded during an Israeli attack on the USS Liberty. According to former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Admiral Thomas Moorer, “Those men were then betrayed and left to die by our own government.” .....by a US President no less. Israel has never looked back since that day.
The survivors are still awaiting justice. They will never get it.
I heard about this attack. At the time, I was only four years old. LBJ was a bastard, for sure, from what I’ve read.
There is SO MUCH that is being uncovered! I realize that I’ve been lied to about “everything”. I think we’ll all be waiting for justice for more and more each day. Sometimes God’s will is not done on Earth and justice will always come, eventually. It’s “universal law”.
It is a privilege for me to have access to somebody who has a soapbox and continually hammers out a message of clarity, and curious to see how many introduce their long-held biases and acquired doctrines in response. I take this as evidence that hearing is not listening and watching is not seeing.
Hi Caitlin and Tim, many of your insights are in sync with mine. I believe that most, if not all, economic social, political heslth and wrlfare problems currently plaguing Western communities subject to representative governance could be solved by excluding and banning all political donations. I'm not holding my breath in anticipation of a miracle!
Politics is a secular religion. Leadership is priesthood. Both institutions are better off abolished in favor of delegates who have absolutely no rights to act outside of their constitutents' instructions.
Yes. The DP used to promote public-funded elections which would make moot the whole tv advertising scam that is the basis for having millionaires as candidates.
“Every time I hear a political speech or I read those of our leaders, I am horrified at having, for years, heard nothing which sounded human. It is always the same words telling the same lies. And the fact that men accept this, that the people’s anger has not destroyed these hollow clowns, strikes me as proof that men attribute no importance to the way they are governed; that they gamble – yes, gamble – with a whole part of their life and their so called ‘vital’ interests.”- Albert Camus (1978). “Notebooks, 1935-1942”, Harcourt...hard to comment this!....
If only western values were real. Peace and democracy sound fantastic. But alas, the reality we live in is called capitalism. It doesn't believe in anything but profit. Profit abhors peace because war is great for business. You can't get ahead with western values. The only good thing about them is their names. It's easy to advertise things with a name such as the "Peacemaker rifle." Yeah, western values exist only in fairy tales and Madison Avenue sales pitches. We'll have to get rid of capitalism forever before we can even attempt to find values close to them.
I’m a very western individual through my broad minded upbringing. I have no idea how this “West” never learned anything about where we have come from to arrive in a New World.
They are a no name culture having pretensions , only worshipping the God of Money and Power till they are sick in the mind.
It’s astonishing how little they know about life outside the power and pomp.
It won’t end well for these clowns and you can be assured the rest of the us in the west won’t be going down with them to a ignoble defeat.
@Mary Wildfire: Maybe it isn't helpful to use "impolite" terms for adversaries, but being a user myself, I can understand it. What has happened and is happening makes politeness seem sacrilegious: polite language was never meant to describe horrendous crimes, inhuman conditions and intent. It was never meant to be used in arguments against mass murder and the ultimate murder: the annihilation of the human race along with every life form. These conditions beggar language as we know it.
There are not such good things as " western values" to support. First at all, values are cultural constructs, and powerful nations are constructed their values as "superior" and want to impose them to the rest of the world, blatantly ignoring other nations own values.
I have a comment and a question, for Caitlin. The comment: it is not helpful to your cause to use phrases like "baby-brained idiot" and "dipshit" to refer to those who disagree with you. It certainly doesn't win over those you're addressing and it detracts from the wisdom in what else you say.
The question: there is a segment here where you allege that the ruling class raises its kids to know they're ruling class and have class solidarity. I wonder where you get this. I'm not disputing it--I don't know any ruling class people--just wondering whether it's based on significant experience, or something you read, or just a surmise.
Yes, they just disagree, And while there's nothing wrong with that language over your shoulder to you spouse while reading something, putting it in print in an article you want people to give serious credence to is something else. It sounds childish.
Hear, Hear...HEAR! I do only wish that CJ had given some attention to the *ultimate* manifestation of Western-ideological/settler-colonial evil: Zionist Israel, that has not only kneed-on-neck the hapless Palestinians but entangled its tribute-paying USA/most of the West in its Apartheidic/satanic claws of domination and control. Zionism took the lessons of prior colonials and adapted them to its psychopathogically-infused agenda of "We are the ultimate victim and don't (we won't let you) forget it"; and "We have the right to defend ourselves."
Can you point us to an interview or article where you outline the development of your worldview?
I got well past half a normal lifespan before I started thinking "Wait a minute - there's a problem with the mainstream belief about our country/system/politics"
Politicians lead us to war are they free people or free thinkers,for sure they seem to be caught in the amber of there networks or pathways that seem to be predictable.great piece of writing envy your talent to what is important.
Fourth bullet point: The elite class has class interests while the people don't: Thorstein Veblen said all of this in The Theory of the Leisure Class. It needs to be read by everyone who sees the power differential for what it is.
There is nothing wrong with being anti-West: Most of the murder - as in colonialism, theft and war has been perpetrated by the West since 1492: I'm fervently against that. And moving to China is not the scary proposition it's made to be. It's a very civilized society, and its standard of living - for ordinary people - will soon surpass the West's. But why should China be interested in me? I'm a product, albeit from no fault of my own, of the West. Were I they, I'd be very careful about Westerners entering the country, many of whom work for NGOs with the specific intent of causing trouble. Frankly, I wouldn't let a GD one in.
I think that those values were a myth, just ask the indigenous people, treaties broken, people murdered, land taken, freedom denied, no justice, and never the truth. I certainly wish it had been the values you proposed.
They are certainly a myth as far as rulers are concerned, and they are careful to promote them as the real thing for the rubes down below. The fact that many ordinary folks realize that does not help. The system is such that nothing can be done.
Myth isn't a synonym for all fiction. Myth is a special kind of fiction that is fundamental to a society's self-identity and values. Ukraine, for example, is a myth of the racial inferiority of the Russian people. It functions to manufacture an underclass and valorize action against them. The iPhone, for another example, is a myth of social complexity as a source of value, and functions to valorize obedience to management.
David Graeber's _Toward an Anthropological Theory of Value_ is essential reading for anyone who wants to understand values, value systems, and their consequences.
I think that you are unnecessarily despondent. Every person who says, "nothing can be done" denigrates Caitlin's work and furthers the establishment goals.
I'm not despondent, I'm realistic. Based on history. If that happens to "denigrate" or "further" anything then that's not my fault.
and for that reason every !@#$ mis-leader on the planet needs to throw away their suit which is inspired by the west, their electricity, their plumbing, and their computers/tv/security cameras. so if you are a slav then your in for a rude awakening of reality that has never been noticed by you.
Good thing some slaves produce napkins or you'd drown in your own snot.
You were paid for those. Grow up and stop whining about your MOM STOP COPYING ME intellectual property fetish. Your services are no longer required.
Ya think?
Note that “western values” = values of colonisers. The values of the people who went to Africa and and Asia and South America and enslaved entire nations of people while claiming they were not colonising but “saving them”/“protecting them” with “western values”.
No sugar they speak with forked tongue and cannot be trusted to do what they say. Anywhere. Not even for their own people.
and before that there was Asian values. and in the case of Africa which is a long topic to cover. the Muslims were the first to colonize Africa. Africa doesn't even have its own name cuz it was butchered by the Arabs calling it "Alkebulan" then the European powers that collaborated with the Arabs later gave it the name "Africa" after a Roman general that served the Roman Army many centuries ago in Europe. so the people that blame European Imperialism for the displacement of the world should also blame the ones that collaborated with it like the Muslims who were actually the sole purpose of why the Age of Exploration happened with Christopher Columbus cuz Europeans could not go directly East cuz it was blocked by the Muslim Empires like the Ottomans so Europeans had to go West even though Columbus did not know that he did not touch the Far East to India for spices which was the original goal cuz he was ignorant of geography proper. in any case, war, invasion and competition is part of human nature and its not discriminated by race, class or culture.
Well, your history is a bit off. Europeans could not travel to the civilized East because the subcontinent was a primitive backwater of almost no economic interest whose major exports were furs and slaves. When China built the Forbidden City ambassadors and gifts were sent from as far away as Zimbabwe, but it was 20 years before Europe even heard about the event.
Columbus had a map, possibly from China via the libraries of Timbuktu. It showed the Spice Islands in approximately the correct locations in relation to Asia. His mistake was his belief that Ptolemy had correctly estimated the diameter of the Earth as considerably smaller than it actually is. If Ptolemy had been correct then Columbus would have landed in the Philippines rather than the Caribbean Islands. Even then he found people who looked like what he expected, using hammocks and tapa bark cloth, cannibal kings who raised humans like livestock. cinnamon (although a different variety) and a bunch of coincidental word similarities.
i have heard that Columbus took that map from a Muslim, probably a Moorish slave as his guide to try to sail to Asia. forgive me if i make certain mistakes on that part of telling past history. just trying to keep an open mind
It almost certainly came from the Muslim world, Europe was barely emerging from barbarism at the time and all the good map makers were using maps from North Africa to attempt to educate themselves about the larger world.
Two interesting things happened shortly before the time of Columbus, first was the importation of the navigational compass, probably from Chinese refugees from a change of dynasty (Tang? Forget now.) The Norse had previously used a very primitive version, kept as a trade secret, but it was fairly inaccurate and hard to use. The second was the appearance of the Portolano map, a map of the Mediterranean Sea and sometimes including the Black Sea or Red Sea, which was far beyond the then-current capabilities of Europe (or probably the Muslims). It showed ports and landmarks in **correct longitude**, frequently to within a fraction of a degree, and was slavishly copied for the next three centuries.
I know far too much trivia, but history is fun so that's OK.
Europe wasn't that bad. Marco Polo? Overland Easterly to everywhere. Power of Venetian trade? Columbus not that bad. Suppose Spain wanted better competitive trade route via West. Christo was Italian but he was happy to go. SO he made a mistake. How else does anyone learn anything? And re who called Africa Africa suggest they go find out after who or what or why that Roman general Scipio Africanus (if I'm not mistake) was called that. Might even get eaten by large rabbit in process.
any modern Arab that is Muslim that claims to be a victim of Western Imperialism should also acknowledge that the Muslim Empires at one time explored around the world and had an Empire of their own via the last remains of the Persian Empire. the Muslims traded with Europe and as well as invaded Europe many times during the Crusades as well as Muslim rule of the Iberian Peninsula for 800 years until they were kicked out by King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella during the Reconquista.
Well, your history is a bit off. Europeans could not travel to the civilized East because the subcontinent was a primitive backwater of almost no economic interest whose major exports were furs and slaves. When China built the Forbidden City ambassadors and gifts were sent from as far away as Zimbabwe, but it was 20 years before Europe even heard about the event.
Columbus had a map, possibly from China via the libraries of Timbuktu. It showed the Spice Islands in approximately the correct locations in relation to Asia. His mistake was his belief that Ptolemy had correctly estimated the diameter of the Earth as considerably smaller than it actually is. If Ptolemy had been correct then Columbus would have landed in the Philippines rather than the Caribbean Islands. Even then he found people who looked like what he expected, using hammocks and tapa bark cloth, cannibal kings who raised humans like livestock. cinnamon (although a different variety) and a bunch of coincidental word similarities.
Well said
Yes, indeed
In my 90th year, I often think back on past years to try and reconcile our old values, those mentioned in Caitlin's introduction, which seemed to me to be alive and well until the death of JFK. The big deal then was respect for opinions other than your own, determination to better understand everything around you as so many things were changing, so often. but most in a positive way. It was good with a future that had all the possibilities of peace , justice and understanding. But....
I will never forget the 1967 USS Liberty attack as a starting point for all that has happened since then. American pride took a big hit, and the enemy on that day went on to become the most corrupt influence the world has even seen, supported by Lyndon Johnson who turned his back on his own country and sold out his country's honour and decency to a foreign country.
That country now controls the United States of America.
A long time ago, indeed. But nothing has improved in the America we then knew under John Kennedy, now just the shadow of a respectable country and one solely motivated by the need for total power. That is what America has become today and will remain until the end of the US empire.
The USA will never change back to what is was intended to be and indeed was, until 1967.
There is a lot of pre-Kennedy history that has not been revealed until recently and it is only to be found in books written by courageous seekers and revealers of the truth.
Stephen Kinzer's book "The Brothers" about Allen and John Foster Dulles who were the prototypical neocons in the years following WWII as CIA Director (Allen) and Secretary of State (Foster).
Reading this book one can see the establishment of the deranged thinking and beliefs that seem to guide the U.S. State Department and CIA up until the present day.
It's ridiculous to suppose that such thinking and beliefs began with the Dulles brothers but they did a lot to inflict these beliefs on the rest of the world during their time in office and right up until the current day.
I see the beginning of the rise of the far right as the industrialists’ pressure on the DP at the 1944 DP Convention. Henry Wallace was running for re-election as VP, and it was widely believed that FDR’s health was failing and that the next VP would likely be the next President. Wallace was simpatico with FDR’s social programs, and, as they were widely appreciated throughout the country, the business elites knew Wallace could not serve a third term as FDR’s VP. So the money bought enough DP electoral votes at the convention to force the vote to a second ballot, and it was then that a one-term Senator from Missouri began to pivot away from economic justice. Harry Truman was a tool for the corporate elites, and his presidency marked the beginning of full-on demonization of the country that defeated Hitler. JFK mat well have been killed by his CIA Director, but there probably would not be a CIA in 1963 if Henry Wallace had not been the victim of a fixed election.
I don't know about 1967 or JFK as some turning point. The stuff had been happening well before that. The latest somewhat "encyclopedic" work to consult as a reference if nothing else is Whitney Webb's "One Nation Under Blackmail". Vol.1 covers happenings from the beginning of the 20th century.
It's a good starting point for anyone prone to researching stuff as there's tons of references to go on any tangent one wishes.
Well regarding Russia, JFK's plans eventually were to get along with Russia, but he was killed shortly after. Before that he adopted the anti-Russian agenda established by the previous administrations and CIA , but after the Bay of Pigs and the Cuban Missile crisis, and double crossed by the CIA he decided to settle on peace with Russia. Personally I think the CIA was involved in his death. Of course Johnson got us into the Vietnam war with the Bay of Tonkin lie. Since WWII we have more or less been on a war footing, and now we are driven by a neocon agenda established in the late 1990's, It's agenda was behind all our 21st century wars in the Middle East, and all based on lies. Biden is now pushing the neocon agenda in Ukraine, which was initiated under Obama in his support of a coup backed by neo-nazi's who helped drive the violence that ousted a pro Russian Yanukovich, as well as participating in the thousands of deaths of ethnic Russians in the Donbas region of Ukraine over a period of years. Biden and Zelensky are willing to use the people of Ukraine as human fodder, and both are hoping to drag this war out in order to wear Russia down. They seem blind to the reality their agenda could cause WWIII, and I think it will. Not to mention the inhumanity that drives them both and all those who support them.
Well said. It's surreal that this may escalate further. What did JFK say ... "Mankind must put an end to war, or war will put an end to mankind." ?
I totally agree. I’m 59 and I was a month old in my mother’s arms when JFK was taken out. Everything I was told and taught, was one huge lie, I see. And what a great lie it is. It’s so, so sad...a “death” that I must adjust to. And, once awake, a Truthful person can never be put back to sleep. Especially now, God, like never before, is what allows me to have/keep what balance I have.
It is certainly out in the open these days, Renee, with the CIA in there as #1 suspect. But don't dismiss the fact that Kennedy did intend to eliminate the chances of Israel's attempts (at that stage) to progress further with their nuclear bomb making plans in Dimona, cancelled after his death by Johnson, the very same man who called back American fighter aircraft (which had already taken off) and which were tasked with trying to save the USS Liberty from being sunk by Israel. 1967. the year.
A motivation? Add that to the #1 suspect.
On June 8, 1967, 34 American servicemen were killed and 174 were wounded during an Israeli attack on the USS Liberty. According to former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Admiral Thomas Moorer, “Those men were then betrayed and left to die by our own government.” .....by a US President no less. Israel has never looked back since that day.
The survivors are still awaiting justice. They will never get it.
I heard about this attack. At the time, I was only four years old. LBJ was a bastard, for sure, from what I’ve read.
There is SO MUCH that is being uncovered! I realize that I’ve been lied to about “everything”. I think we’ll all be waiting for justice for more and more each day. Sometimes God’s will is not done on Earth and justice will always come, eventually. It’s “universal law”.
For one brief shining moment ...
Don't be coy. What "foreign country"?
If you're going to make claims like that, be man enough to say what you mean.
Well I am surprised, Susan, that anyone needs this spelt out any more.
Of course it is Israel. A firm grip on the USA's throat since Lyndon Johnson in 1967 (and perhaps even before as others have said, rightly or wrongly)
Tossing Forrestal out the window was just a warmup.
It is a privilege for me to have access to somebody who has a soapbox and continually hammers out a message of clarity, and curious to see how many introduce their long-held biases and acquired doctrines in response. I take this as evidence that hearing is not listening and watching is not seeing.
Hi Caitlin and Tim, many of your insights are in sync with mine. I believe that most, if not all, economic social, political heslth and wrlfare problems currently plaguing Western communities subject to representative governance could be solved by excluding and banning all political donations. I'm not holding my breath in anticipation of a miracle!
Political donations should be paid out of a common fund.
Politics is a secular religion. Leadership is priesthood. Both institutions are better off abolished in favor of delegates who have absolutely no rights to act outside of their constitutents' instructions.
Yes. The DP used to promote public-funded elections which would make moot the whole tv advertising scam that is the basis for having millionaires as candidates.
“Every time I hear a political speech or I read those of our leaders, I am horrified at having, for years, heard nothing which sounded human. It is always the same words telling the same lies. And the fact that men accept this, that the people’s anger has not destroyed these hollow clowns, strikes me as proof that men attribute no importance to the way they are governed; that they gamble – yes, gamble – with a whole part of their life and their so called ‘vital’ interests.”- Albert Camus (1978). “Notebooks, 1935-1942”, Harcourt...hard to comment this!....
If only western values were real. Peace and democracy sound fantastic. But alas, the reality we live in is called capitalism. It doesn't believe in anything but profit. Profit abhors peace because war is great for business. You can't get ahead with western values. The only good thing about them is their names. It's easy to advertise things with a name such as the "Peacemaker rifle." Yeah, western values exist only in fairy tales and Madison Avenue sales pitches. We'll have to get rid of capitalism forever before we can even attempt to find values close to them.
I’m a very western individual through my broad minded upbringing. I have no idea how this “West” never learned anything about where we have come from to arrive in a New World.
They are a no name culture having pretensions , only worshipping the God of Money and Power till they are sick in the mind.
It’s astonishing how little they know about life outside the power and pomp.
It won’t end well for these clowns and you can be assured the rest of the us in the west won’t be going down with them to a ignoble defeat.
@Mary Wildfire: Maybe it isn't helpful to use "impolite" terms for adversaries, but being a user myself, I can understand it. What has happened and is happening makes politeness seem sacrilegious: polite language was never meant to describe horrendous crimes, inhuman conditions and intent. It was never meant to be used in arguments against mass murder and the ultimate murder: the annihilation of the human race along with every life form. These conditions beggar language as we know it.
There are not such good things as " western values" to support. First at all, values are cultural constructs, and powerful nations are constructed their values as "superior" and want to impose them to the rest of the world, blatantly ignoring other nations own values.
I have a comment and a question, for Caitlin. The comment: it is not helpful to your cause to use phrases like "baby-brained idiot" and "dipshit" to refer to those who disagree with you. It certainly doesn't win over those you're addressing and it detracts from the wisdom in what else you say.
The question: there is a segment here where you allege that the ruling class raises its kids to know they're ruling class and have class solidarity. I wonder where you get this. I'm not disputing it--I don't know any ruling class people--just wondering whether it's based on significant experience, or something you read, or just a surmise.
Caitlyn’s language is helpful because these are not people that just “disagree”.
Never mind probably a lot of us would prefer to describe these people using phrases like, “skull-fucked retard”.
Yes, they just disagree, And while there's nothing wrong with that language over your shoulder to you spouse while reading something, putting it in print in an article you want people to give serious credence to is something else. It sounds childish.
Thanks, Mom. I’ll keep it mind. 🙄
Please read The Theory of the Leisure Class by Thorstein Veblen.
Caitlin Johnstone isn't the first one to come up with this idea. You can probably do more research to find out the roots of this observation.
Yes
Hear, Hear...HEAR! I do only wish that CJ had given some attention to the *ultimate* manifestation of Western-ideological/settler-colonial evil: Zionist Israel, that has not only kneed-on-neck the hapless Palestinians but entangled its tribute-paying USA/most of the West in its Apartheidic/satanic claws of domination and control. Zionism took the lessons of prior colonials and adapted them to its psychopathogically-infused agenda of "We are the ultimate victim and don't (we won't let you) forget it"; and "We have the right to defend ourselves."
Can you point us to an interview or article where you outline the development of your worldview?
I got well past half a normal lifespan before I started thinking "Wait a minute - there's a problem with the mainstream belief about our country/system/politics"
Politicians lead us to war are they free people or free thinkers,for sure they seem to be caught in the amber of there networks or pathways that seem to be predictable.great piece of writing envy your talent to what is important.
Yes, the constant power, dominance and control orientation is predictable.
The historically changing opportunities and specific ways of maintaining power are somewhat less predictable.
Thanks agree..
Fourth bullet point: The elite class has class interests while the people don't: Thorstein Veblen said all of this in The Theory of the Leisure Class. It needs to be read by everyone who sees the power differential for what it is.
There is nothing wrong with being anti-West: Most of the murder - as in colonialism, theft and war has been perpetrated by the West since 1492: I'm fervently against that. And moving to China is not the scary proposition it's made to be. It's a very civilized society, and its standard of living - for ordinary people - will soon surpass the West's. But why should China be interested in me? I'm a product, albeit from no fault of my own, of the West. Were I they, I'd be very careful about Westerners entering the country, many of whom work for NGOs with the specific intent of causing trouble. Frankly, I wouldn't let a GD one in.