But I also believe that there are people to whom one will owe more to than others, specifically those who raised you, and there is definitely more onus on parents/children to forgive and reconcile with each other wherever possible, when malice/abuse is not part of the picture
I think the keyword here is "entitlement". We're human - so we're going to make mistakes, and there are going to be complex psychological dynamics taking place in almost any family (or relationship). But no one should think they are entitled to treat someone badly - which by the way, seems to be the rule these days (not the exception) with corporations and their employees, and politicians and their constituents.
Agreed. But therapy culture has made people too certain of their own reading of events, and often unwilling to communicate and consider another point of view. This is a dysfunctional way of interacting with others that has expanded out of the family circle and gives justification to plain-old authoritarianism. There are times when the interpretation of having been treated badly is not entirely correct. This is why group/family/couples therapy can be very helpful.
Yet my daughter for years told me I was the best until I would no longer be her personal Bank. I have no interest in my son who has always been so aggressive and drunk that I grew to be afraid of him.
I love my 2 grandkids who we do see.........not often enough because they are in another country.
Both of our boys when in their late thirties went through divorce. We were the ones that ended up financing them for their divorce lawyers. both of them out and out refused to pay us back with one threatening that if he had to we would never see him or the grandkids again. The other one totally abandoned his children. He told us we were no longer family and his new girl friend was his family now. Multiple times she threw him out and he spent an enormous amount of time in our basement sponging of of us. He is back with this drug addled alcoholic again and also refuses to pay anything that he borrowed/took from us. He refuses to talk to us now but he did say he doesn't feel obligated to repay us as he would have inherited it anyhow. I know several other couples in our age group who have experienced the same thing. Don't blame us for your millennial self entitled selfishness. It appears our education system, carefully directed by government supervision has destroyed our culture.
Right Jenny Stokes. Everything here will go to the one grandchild who decided to remain in touch with us. He is a good hard working kid who touches neither alcohol or drugs. He says he saw enough of it when he was a child to last a lifetime.
Sorry, any adult child who has been loved by parent(s) who tried their best and who then treats his or her parent(s) with disrespect or contempt, is a little shit.
Good riddance.
Cut them from the will and let the little darlings find their own way in life.
Caitlin, for the first and only time I have to respectfully disagree with you there. Parental ghosting by grown children stands at around 25% in the US. One in four. Let that sink in for a sec. Now that is waaay too much even assuming the not that great (putting it mildly) average US parental standards. Plus it started happening to nearly everyone, including countries very far from the US and with disparate cultures (including my own.) Now I could guess at the exact reason but that would be a mere nonsense Hail Mary guess - it is, however, very much correlated with the popularity of social media. There is also an entire cottage industry of quack "psychotherapists" whose methods are basically grooming by separation from closest people, as in one's parents. Kids there are literally being taught that all the cool people ghost their parents, and they are boring otherwise. They are also taught that if they feel bad or depressed, this is all their parents' and especially fathers' fault, but there is no use talking to parents about it because they are incorrigible and will only make the kids feel bad if they do talk. That, I believe, is a deliberately and cynically envisioned and created Catch-22 siruation. Actually, chances are it is even more insiduous than that - people self-isolated from their closest kin are far easier to manipulate for whichever nefarious scamling or other purposes the powers behind the tech need.
Take it from someone who overwhelmingly did gentle parenting, adored his daughters and was adored by them in turn - with a LOT of friction, of course, but that is also part and parcel of it - only to get sequentially ghosted by them in the most brutal manner imaginable, as soon as they hit late teens. And I yried tje hentle approzch numeroud times since, only to get brutally shut down each and every time. And I have no illusions I am the only such case. There are untold numbers of us. And for each parent who actually deserved to be and stay ghosted, there are hundreds who did not and are yet left with festering emotional wounds that can never heal. Please understand that I know you would never knowingly do something like that, but the suggestion that all would be peachy if the parents were only warmer and gentler with their kids does, however inadvertently (for I know you are a good person, Caitlin!), amount to victim-blaming out of well-intended naïvete.
If you need an example of such a "therapist" scam artist to ascertain yourself whether I was telling the truth above, do google one Sharon Martin. Be sure to look for parallel sites: she has separate sites to angle for the pop psych set and the ayahuasca set, and probably more. She is but one of a very large category there, alas.
I don't think children who leave the nest, and stop talking much with their parents has ever been that uncommon a phenomena - at least here in the West. When I was growing up, it happened too - but the term 'ghosting' was not in the english lexicon then. But parents often did complain they rarely heard from their kids, and the visits became more infrequent over time.
It does seem however, to be a more "Western" phenomena than in other countries where staying close to family, and even multiple generations living together is the social norm - often because of financial constraints. Though it is becoming more and more like that in the US as wealth inequality along with poverty has grown. What used to be normally affordable: house, car, education and even groceries - now is becoming a major financial burden on Americans. More American children are continuing to live with their parents than ever before.
The extended family was the norm throughout human history because it was the most adaptive and functional kind of family. Those societies lucky enough to still have it don't keep it because of financial constraints, but because they haven't yet become fully westernized. This is important to understand because people seem bewildered by why going no-contact is so common in the U.S. Here's why: the nuclear family is a disaster. If you don't understand that you don't understand what children are up against. In an extended family, even if your parents are crazy, there will be someone, or multiple someones, who care about you and give you an outlet for the feelings you have about your inadequate parents (rage, sadness, despair). Those people save you, but in the nuclear family there is no one else. You're on your own. That's why I would rather be a dog in the U.S. but a child in Mexico. Nuclear families are much more prone to abuse, end of story; it's a straightforward math problem. Our challenge is to get back to multi-generational households, ASAP. There's a reason that is the last thing the establishment wants...
I agree with most of that, but I'd put forward multigenerational households have the same issues and it wasn't a norm for the most of human history, just western history, which has always sucked.
Rather emphasis on community over bloodlines was the norm throughout most nonhierarchical cultures.
I'd say getting back to open community where people stop putting these dividing lines between themselves based on last names and dna is about the only way out of the unending cycles of oppression, inequality and this authoritarian culture.
Nepotism goes on forever so long as we insist that the people we share a bloodline with are so much more important than the kids across the street.
You're right that larger units were the norm throughout most of our history as a species and I stand corrected, but I disagree that multigenerational households are no better than the nuclear family. I don't believe that people always emerge from the former unscathed, not at all, but the evidence seems overwhelming that abused and neglected children who have a witness to their suffering are more likely to turn out alright. In a multigenerational home, there are simply more candidates for that job. In fact, many survivors will tell you that they had a grandmother they were close to, even if they're unaware of how critical that was. This is no coincidence, though others certainly can and do fill the role of enlightened witness. There is only one substitute for the extended family in terms of producing psychologically healthy children: a comprehensive social safety net. Every major society on earth that I can think of has one or the other of those, except for one. Think about it.
"...[G]oing no-contact is so common in the U.S. Here's why: the nuclear family is a disaster."
This is it exactly! The structure of the nuclear, isolated household puts way too much pressure on all the members of the family.
The problem is not usually a moral failing by individual parents (although sometimes it is); most often the issue is the nuclear family itself, and the excessive strain it puts on relationships.
Even the most loving, patient, hard-working parents sometimes still can't compensate for the deficits of the nuclear family structure. And sadly, often the adult children blame the individual parents, rather than the system.
Once you realize we're all victims of the nuclear family, it's easier to have compassion for everyone in the family, at least in those situations where there wasn't outright abuse.
I’m not sure what you mean by “moral failing.” Child abuse is child abuse, and the damage is extensive regardless of its nature. Everyone in an abusive nuclear family may be a victim of it , but survivors can never be expected to analyze why they were made to endure what they did or have compassion for their abusers (I know that’s not what you’re saying). For most it’s a huge step forward just to understand that their parents didn’t love them, a formidable psychological task. As for the strain on relationships inherent in the nuclear family, you’re spot on! Intensity of dependence breeds stress, resentment, and abuse, regardless of what kind of relationship we’re talking about. In fact, child abuse is always most damaging when perpetrated by parents or anyone the child is dependent on (Jennifer Freyd), especially when there are no other witnesses, as in the nuclear family. It’s refreshing to hear from someone who gets this. A person can be highly formally educated but if he or she has no experience with non-nuclear family, they’re going to think “family” is two parents and their kids, as if it were natural. So it is that few Americans understand how abnormal our familial relationships are or why they’re so dysfunctional.
It always happened, but when it did one could at least assume that there was something very, very wrong with such a family (extreme violence, incest, the like.) That argument, however, no longer holds - the 25% rules it out decisively. And while grown children seldom finding time for their parents has long been a phenomenon, this is a wholly different and much less savage beast than ghosting is. Ghosting means permanent, deliberate and open-ended dismantling of all potential ways of contact. Brutal, absolute shunning, deliberately with no redress. You are comparing a golden retriever to a rabid wolf here, metaphorically speaking.
the thing is that none of us can really know what goes on behind closed doors. Men who appear kind and thoughtful in the community can be rapists. Women who seem like caring mothers can be violent. Children who seem well adjusted can be completely confused. There are so many contributing factors to distance between family members. It is probably better to withhold judgement when we don't really know.
Absolutely. Parents may not be able to control their rage/ange behind closed doors, but they sure as hell know you don't show your ugliest side in public anymore. (This used to be OK up until the 1980s or beyond, after which it was limited to private settings.) You have no idea how the average person you meet on the street treats their children. No idea.
Certainly, and very valid for each individual case. However, there is something very, very wrong about not recognizing the beyond horrifying mass grooming aspect of the entire situation. Confused kids who seem well-adjusted are easy top catch for any kind of groomer for any kind of nefarious purpose(s). And it is not something that only happens to someone else. My elder daughter shares your first name, btw.
It really isn't brutal. It's like every other relationship and the supposed specialness of parents is a charade. Either you're close or you aren't, the designation of mommy or daddy is a moot point and there's no sense in living a lie just to dogmatically obey old world rules that often act as shackles formed out of guilt and a pressure to normalize.
And being that so many parents never surrender their authority role over their grown child makes it so the relationship can never mature and you're forever stuck relating to these people as something less than an equal.
Most people I've known through my entire life in fact don't care to hang around their parents and are glad when it's over. That's why it's so common for kids to move far away or want to do so.
Thanks jamenta. Very sober and honest comment. I believe disintegration of familial relationship have been strongly impacted by false economy and the loss of familial "roots". It is a travesty.
Well expressed Ante Skrabalo! I feel that Caitlin's article is devoid of nuance and the multiple permutations-combinations of the dynamics of child-parent relationships (even before factoring in cultural differences and mixed-ethnicity issues).
Good comment Ante. I don't think the "ghosting" situation is all that new. Parents continue to work their *jobs* and maintain peer relationships. There is usually no real behavioral change after children have left the nest. That said:
Departing offspring are faced with all new challenges of adulthood. Finding viable relationship. Joining in or initiating career. Purchasing a home or finding same... None of it is easy, and most children were not apprised that all this shit would hit the fan.
I think the article inflates a pretty flat tire. Jus' sayin'
I agree, this story goes both ways. I and my 6 siblings were virtually abandoned by our father 6 months after my mother died when my father met a new woman who didn’t want children. We were age 11 to 17 when my dad, a superintendent of schools no less, left us.
Going forward I raised my two children (one a daughter I didn’t give birth too) in a fairly child centric household putting their wants and needs before my own, which seemed the right thing to do at the time. Fast forward 20 years, 2 decades of my daughter’s addiction with all its attendant selfishness, anger and abuse, my daughter has now fired me as her mom, but is close with her formerly physically abusive birth mother (who hit her with a belt throughout her childhood, unbeknownst to me until recently) who subsidizes the daughter’s life. Turns out apparently money can buy “love”.
I reject this perspective as misguided. Many parents are horrible, many are not. Many adult children are horrible; many are not. Blaming aging parents for their adult children shutting them out is a substitute for understanding and compassion and ways to reconcile.
" Only if we understand can we care. Only if we care will we help. Only if we help shall they be saved."
Jane Goodall
“Someone has said that it requires less mental effort to condemn than to think.” Emma Goldman
I don't think Caitlin's perspective is totally misguided, but she is leaving out quite a lot. My mother was violent and horrible. I hated her until I went into therapy where I was encouraged to try to understand how she got to where she was. She grew up poor in England. Then the second war came along when she was 15. Life messed her up. I could never convince her to go to therapy herself, but I am glad I did. It stopped me from hating her.
After my son was born, I looked at all the people on the streets who were drunk, drug addicted, messed up and not really "nice" and kept thinking that once, they too were perfect little beings just like my son. Life can be shitty sometimes.
That is all the more reason not to be judgmental but to seek understand an compassion. Horrible parents probably had horrible parents: judging only continues the cycle whereas we need a perspective of healing to end it.
Thank you so much for this important article. I come from a family of narcissistic (cult-like) parents, one in which I was the scapegoat. It takes a lifetime to heal from narcissistic abuse, and healing is impossible without going no contact with your abusers. Yes, they've had difficult lives, but eventually people need to grow up and learn to take responsibility for their behavior.
Interestingly, people rarely criticize those who leave abusive cults.
I couldn't even begin to heal or thrive until after the death of my parents, although I largely minimized contact with them during their lifetimes. I also had to go no contact with my narcissistic sister, who was the so-called golden child. Attacking adult children for going no contact with their parents, siblings, and/or other abusive relatives is merely to perpetuate the abuse.
Hear, hear! It's sad to see commenters making excuses for abusive parents. It's not our responsibility to fix our parents (as if it could even be done); it's our responsibility to draw boundaries that protect us from people who've shown they don't care about us. Going no-contact with my family was one of the most empowering things I've even done, after a profoundly disempowering childhood. Staying in touch with people who've abused you or gone along with abuse makes is impossible to fully heal, or for many, to heal at all. Imagine stating that going no-contact is the problem, even when you don't know if parents have ever said "I'm sorry"! Good grief, no wonder we're so screwed up in the west.
Where have I done otherwise? In fact, in one of my comments I said specifically that you can't know how someone is treating their children unless you live with them.
“I have heard it said that the way our adult children treat us is our performance review for our job as parents.” is exactly correct.
Once a child is an adult and no longer dependent on their parents/guardian, they’re free to make their own decisions and choices. If a parent/guardian has nurtured, nourished and protected the child while demonstrating love, devotion and appropriate response to the developing child’s talents and needs, chances are that same adult child will reciprocate. If not, well, ‘you reap what you sow’. For what it’s worth, that’s my take as a parent and grandparent.
I’m so grateful for this nearly daily injection of clarity and rational analysis by Johnstone. It’s my lifeline and often a wake up call.
As a former child, now adult who did exactly what you describe here, I can attest to the shitty behavior not being tolerated when kids reach adulthood. I have been always at odds with my mom and dad, both victims of dysfunctional upbringing which they generously passed on to us. Every time I heard people saying "you only have them", I was in a mental state of flipping the table. Because if that is the incentive to stay connected and be emotionally abused in the most laissez faire manner, thanks but no thanks. I try hard with my own kids and while they are at the age where I am their world, I know the day will come when they will become their own person and I will have to make sure I don't fudge it up. Nothing is for granted folks.
I endorse your conclusion! Experienced similar from both sides of the debate.
One of my parents was “shitty”, the other, from my view point as a child, long suffering and doing the best they could. I stopped contact with the shitty parent long ago. I’m still in daily contact with my loving, kind parent and they are in their 90s!
For my performance evaluation, all 3 of my adult children have scored me ‘excellent’ in some areas and ‘needs improvement in others’. I take it seriously.
I’ve decided the best course of action is to be an adult and 1) admit what I did or failed to do ***and the impact/harm it caused***, 2) say I am sorry for what I did/failed to do, and 3) make it right, whatever it is and for however long it takes.
I do not ask for or expect forgiveness because that’s asking my child for something on top of enduring whatever harm I caused.
In my view a victim does not owe a perpetrator anything, ever. The victim’s task is to survive by any means necessary and move on with their lives unfettered by what a perpetrator did to them. In the case of a parent and adult child, reduced, low or no contact are all rational and reasonable courses of action.
Exactly. 100%. I wish all Americans would put themselves in children's shoes like you do, but sadly we're strongly discouraged from doing so. This no-contact movement may be what's needed to get many bad parents to wake the hell up.
Your divorce comparison is the right one, and it cuts both ways. My mother lived under the old rule and stayed married to my father. I lived under it too, and in 1998, in my thirties, I broke it and cut him off.
There was no social media and no therapist pointing me toward the exit.
There was my father, who let himself into my apartment with my emergency keys and waited in the dark to tell me, a grown woman with a career, that I was a bad girl, scaring me half to death. There was a call to my office, passed to me in a meeting by my assistant, saying Dad was on the phone and my mother had had a stroke. She hadn't.
Those are two episodes out of thousands, big and small, over three decades.
The WSJ piece opens with parents in a Chicago conference hall asking why. My father never asked. My mother told me he felt I'd treated him unfairly and been ungrateful. She said he died heartbroken.
Yes. It's fascinating to see another way the social hierarchy dominance model is exposing itself. To see how much parental entitlement there is--and how little self-reflection. To watch how quick people are to villainize adult children rather than inquire about the parents' behavior. (Even Oprah, apparently is aligning with the "get in line" perspective in a recent deep-dive on this topic.)
What is so stunning to me about this "epidemic" is that people seem ignorant of the fact that human beings are social mammals--our literal survival depends on being part of the group. Anytime someone steps away from the acceptance of their group (including the family unit) it comes at a significant personal cost, and people only pay that price when the alternative (staying) is unbearable.
Every person I know who is estranged from their parents (and it's several) spent years, or decades, trying Every Single Thing they possibly could to "make the relationship work." Eventually, they had to accept fact that the choice was either A) lose the relationship and gain their own health and well-being or B) stay in contact and lose their health and well-being.
Estrangement is a relationship choice. No one makes it lightly.
The parent-child relationship is our most fundamental bond. Emotinally, biologically, it runs deep. People do not drop a relationship with a parent lightly. Most people will compromise or forfeit their well-being to a small or large degree in order to keep the tie.
Until they don't. And often things change when they have kids themselves. Once adult children become parents themselves they realize they have to do something different. They don't want to pass the same garbage on to their kids. Or it's a capacity issue. They're simply so stretched by the enormous job of being parents in a society that doesn't support parents...that they no longer have the bandwidth for whatever mental/emotional gymnastics they were juggling in order to stay in relationship with their parents.
I also wonder how many of that supposed 25% of adult children who "ghost" their parents are queer. Queer folks often create chosen family for themselves--because they have to. For many, being queer costs us our family. Usually because of parental rejection of the queer child.
I have zero contact with my family. It's been utterly heartbreaking. The loss is enormous. The grief is ongoing. And navigating life's intense challenges without the safety net of family--can be terrifying.
Yet, when I look at this so-called "epidemic" in our culture I see an important change happening amidst the pervasive pain. More and more people are breaking generational cycles of toxic behavior and abuse.
Divorce is an incredibly complex and painful process that can be reduced down to one word: NO.
No, this isn't working. No, I'm not going to do this anymore.
Same with estrangement.
Estrangement is also incredibly complex and painful.
No, this isn't working. No, I'm not going to do this anymore.
I'd love to see more people get curious about what adult children are saying no TO, rather than jumping on them telling them they need to say yes instead.
I said no to my father in 1998 and cut him off. We never spoke again. He was himself for 36 years, and I couldn't stand it any longer.
He beat me when I was three for not being able to do something a three year old girl couldn't do. The rest was psychological warfare. From the time I was ten, he walked into my bedroom every night without knocking, and when I asked him to stop so I could study in quiet or change clothes in private, he wanted to know what I was hiding that I needed a closed door. He boasted to his colleagues about my Ivy degrees, then told me at home that I was making him look bad but he never said how. When I asked my mother to stop him, she said, "He's your father, dear. He loves you."
After my surgery in late 1997, I phoned home to tell my parents the surgery went well but I needed to sleep; he called me a sulky little bitch who didn'thave time to "talk to her old father". The next spring he reported me missing to the police twice. I wasn't missing and I typically called home three times a week.
My Substack is my account of what I said no to, and why. You'll find it under my name.
I can't understand why you would not be kind to your adult children. I still feel my children's hurt even though they are in their 50s and 40s. I always try to be a sounding board for them. No, I can't make their problems disappear or solve them. Nor would it be right for me to interfere unless I was asked. They are adults and not my clones. And I like the fact that they are all individuals with their own perspective on life.
>>"I can't understand why you would not be kind to your adult children."
This is actually pretty easy to understand. People have traumas (think PTSD, etc.). And such people are parents too. They not only have to deal with their own traumas, but also bring up children successfully.
It's daunting enough being a good parent in a normal world - and having personal traumas (through no fault of their own) and bringing up children in our "present world" brings aboard challenges that are not easily surmounted.
Most parents don't 'choose' to be 'unkind' to their children. Different traumas and personality factors affect a person's interaction with the world (either with their children or anybody else for that matter).
I'm already seeing parental apologists in the comments, so....
Growing up, I dealt with a parental unit that believed in child rearing through threats, intimidation and violence. If this came up in a discussion with others, someone would invariably say something like, "But you didn't go hungry, so you should be grateful for that". And my response would be something like, "That thing you just said makes me want to whack you upside the head so hard you see stars. Would that be okay if I bought you lunch afterwards?"
Well, that was then and this is now, and I've toned down my response to statements like that quite a bit (or at least respond more calmly). Of course the "that was then" part was about half a century ago, and the journey to "this is now" has not been a short or easy one, but here I am.
So if any young person who's dealing with something like this reads this, all I can say is "Hang in there. It will end. And remember to not repeat it. Real freedom can only come from breaking chains".
the reason you're seeing "parental apologists" (that's a pretty awful term) post is because they have experiences that challenge Caitlin's sweeping generalizations -- as if only parents are horrible to their children and children are never cruel to their parents. A LOT of children are absolutely horrible to their parents: abusive, manipulative, exploitative, constantly take & take and never give back. Those experiences are just as valid as yours. You seem unwilling to believe that and prefer to the black & white picture that leaves all the responsibility onto parents.
Yep. Additionally, I usually don't like generalizing things (or assuming/forming broad opinions) based on statistics (and data collection practices) that I don't know enough about.
But of course, I'm human too - and sometimes I make the same mistakes I tell other people not to.
One thing I want to callout is that our relationships have all taken a toll since we were locked down and separated so things have become much worse between parent and child, even siblings and old friends.
We’re going to need to restore the community that society has destroyed:
Or, your children may be unkind and without mercy and truth. It's about the breakdown of the country. Or, your children may be spoiled rotten and have lost decency and respect and understanding for people - including parents - that have lost their way.
There is something sad and sick about a performance review for parents. We are hardwired as humans to remain connected to family, particularly parents, for emotional and physical health.
Yes, some parents may be dysfunctional but most are not. However, in a society where parents are instructed in what they can and cannot say, do or be, it is impossible to pass any performance review.
This attitude to parents is just a new form of bullying by spoiled, immature, selfish children. Our parents did their best and most gave everything for their children and expecting a modicum of care and respect from those children, regardless, is not asking too much.
The rules of honouring thy parents, held across millennia, and ignored by some, existed for a reason. If we do not respect those who gave us life and their lives to raise and protect us, as most parents do, then we cannot respect ourselves or anyone else.
The article is interesting but simply reflects a ME, ME, ME, NOW, NOW, NOW generation and not the failings of the vast majority of parents.
Getting old is hard and for those who are financially, physically or mentally challenged in any way, even harder. We are all flawed and some are damaged and everyone is wounded. We all make mistakes and we all made mistakes raising our kids but we were doing our best, as are they with their children even if like their parents, they get some things terribly wrong.
One thing is certain adult children who ditch their parents can expect the same and worse, regardless of anything they do, because that is the lesson they are teaching their children. The lesson they give is that family is not important, loyalty, consideration, compassion, care, common human decency do not matter, and my convenience is the only consideration. What a miserable world they are handing on to their children and creating for themselves as they age.
The world is selfish enough as it is, driven by power and profit, and this is just more of the same, albeit with the power being over vulnerable parents who will always love and care deeply for their children, whatever age they may be, and the profit being maintaining a self-serving world where you dictate how, what and when others may participate.
Very few parents would ever give up on a child no matter what that child does or how much pain they may experience from what that child does. Who would advise a parent when a child of any age is hard work to ditch them? Very few. So why give this advice to children in regard to parents?
Nothing worth having is easy and they make babies cute for a reason. Being a parent is often hard, and it is a lifetime commitment, but always rewarding if we can learn from what we experience. Wise parents will teach their children that about every relationship.
Instead of just making your life easy, or so you think, abide by principles and do the right thing and learn from it, no matter how hard it might be.
As to, 'there isn't a single person on this planet who is entitled to treat you badly.' Of course no-one is entitled to do that but many do in their woundedness and fear and we need to be bigger than that and respond with compassion.
And those who take this maxim and run with it will be very busy finding their own definition of 'badly' and punishing parents and others for it. Treating you badly can be any of the following:
telling the truth, no matter how painful
not agreeing with all you say and do but loving you anyway
allowing you to make mistakes which cause pain but which make you stronger
trying to prevent you making mistakes which will cause pain
refusing to pander to your weaknesses
being unable to meet what you call your needs
caring about you actively
I could go on. There are hundreds of things we can define as 'being treated badly' particularly when we are emotionally immature and selfish.
Life is a great experiment but one thing is certain, a world without compassion and consideration for others, regardless of what they do and are, is a very nasty world indeed.
❓❓It couldn't possibly be that Anti-Family, Anti-HUMANiTY, Corporate TotalitarianFascists ENGINEER Conspicuous Consumption Cultures while simultaneously ENFORCiNG borderline poverty POLiCiES that necessitate parental absenteeism which Results in over-stressed adults and arrested development, self-absorbed children who, from childhood, "Normalize" reactionary-RealityTV-cruelty so profoundly that it becomes the foundation of their “adult” Identity❓❓
"There isn't a single person on this planet who is entitled to treat you badly. Remember that."
I agree with this.
But I also believe that there are people to whom one will owe more to than others, specifically those who raised you, and there is definitely more onus on parents/children to forgive and reconcile with each other wherever possible, when malice/abuse is not part of the picture
I think the keyword here is "entitlement". We're human - so we're going to make mistakes, and there are going to be complex psychological dynamics taking place in almost any family (or relationship). But no one should think they are entitled to treat someone badly - which by the way, seems to be the rule these days (not the exception) with corporations and their employees, and politicians and their constituents.
Agreed. But therapy culture has made people too certain of their own reading of events, and often unwilling to communicate and consider another point of view. This is a dysfunctional way of interacting with others that has expanded out of the family circle and gives justification to plain-old authoritarianism. There are times when the interpretation of having been treated badly is not entirely correct. This is why group/family/couples therapy can be very helpful.
You have no idea what us victims have to go through... you're either a victim of the Holocaust or your the perpetrator.
There are situations for which your analogy makes sense, but that is not the case of every situation where one feels they’ve been treated badly.
I say that to the government every day. They ignore me.
Anyone know who runs the government? Poor people??
According to this I wasn't a good Mum!
Yet my daughter for years told me I was the best until I would no longer be her personal Bank. I have no interest in my son who has always been so aggressive and drunk that I grew to be afraid of him.
I love my 2 grandkids who we do see.........not often enough because they are in another country.
This works both ways.
Both of our boys when in their late thirties went through divorce. We were the ones that ended up financing them for their divorce lawyers. both of them out and out refused to pay us back with one threatening that if he had to we would never see him or the grandkids again. The other one totally abandoned his children. He told us we were no longer family and his new girl friend was his family now. Multiple times she threw him out and he spent an enormous amount of time in our basement sponging of of us. He is back with this drug addled alcoholic again and also refuses to pay anything that he borrowed/took from us. He refuses to talk to us now but he did say he doesn't feel obligated to repay us as he would have inherited it anyhow. I know several other couples in our age group who have experienced the same thing. Don't blame us for your millennial self entitled selfishness. It appears our education system, carefully directed by government supervision has destroyed our culture.
Like I said in my reply, a lot of children are horrible to their parents
How do you know that?
"It appears our education system, carefully directed by government supervision has destroyed our culture." Boom! Exactly... Thanks!
Hello Peter.
Not much different from my son who said it was HIS inheritance! I threw his wife and him out of our house and changed our Will.
I lived in the US for 20yrs and I saw GREED.
Right Jenny Stokes. Everything here will go to the one grandchild who decided to remain in touch with us. He is a good hard working kid who touches neither alcohol or drugs. He says he saw enough of it when he was a child to last a lifetime.
Sounds like you have a wonderful grandchild.
Yes........2 grandkids get everything. How they are going to stop their father from taking our record collection....I don't know! It's up to them.
We have created spoiled monsters.
Sorry, any adult child who has been loved by parent(s) who tried their best and who then treats his or her parent(s) with disrespect or contempt, is a little shit.
Good riddance.
Cut them from the will and let the little darlings find their own way in life.
Sorry, Jenny. I hope you soon have the love returned to you.
Thanks Landon for your care BUT I don't need to see them or hear from them again. 77yrs of abuse.
It's so much more peaceful now.
Whataboutism isn’t attractive. This article isn’t about you.
Caitlin, for the first and only time I have to respectfully disagree with you there. Parental ghosting by grown children stands at around 25% in the US. One in four. Let that sink in for a sec. Now that is waaay too much even assuming the not that great (putting it mildly) average US parental standards. Plus it started happening to nearly everyone, including countries very far from the US and with disparate cultures (including my own.) Now I could guess at the exact reason but that would be a mere nonsense Hail Mary guess - it is, however, very much correlated with the popularity of social media. There is also an entire cottage industry of quack "psychotherapists" whose methods are basically grooming by separation from closest people, as in one's parents. Kids there are literally being taught that all the cool people ghost their parents, and they are boring otherwise. They are also taught that if they feel bad or depressed, this is all their parents' and especially fathers' fault, but there is no use talking to parents about it because they are incorrigible and will only make the kids feel bad if they do talk. That, I believe, is a deliberately and cynically envisioned and created Catch-22 siruation. Actually, chances are it is even more insiduous than that - people self-isolated from their closest kin are far easier to manipulate for whichever nefarious scamling or other purposes the powers behind the tech need.
Take it from someone who overwhelmingly did gentle parenting, adored his daughters and was adored by them in turn - with a LOT of friction, of course, but that is also part and parcel of it - only to get sequentially ghosted by them in the most brutal manner imaginable, as soon as they hit late teens. And I yried tje hentle approzch numeroud times since, only to get brutally shut down each and every time. And I have no illusions I am the only such case. There are untold numbers of us. And for each parent who actually deserved to be and stay ghosted, there are hundreds who did not and are yet left with festering emotional wounds that can never heal. Please understand that I know you would never knowingly do something like that, but the suggestion that all would be peachy if the parents were only warmer and gentler with their kids does, however inadvertently (for I know you are a good person, Caitlin!), amount to victim-blaming out of well-intended naïvete.
If you need an example of such a "therapist" scam artist to ascertain yourself whether I was telling the truth above, do google one Sharon Martin. Be sure to look for parallel sites: she has separate sites to angle for the pop psych set and the ayahuasca set, and probably more. She is but one of a very large category there, alas.
I don't think children who leave the nest, and stop talking much with their parents has ever been that uncommon a phenomena - at least here in the West. When I was growing up, it happened too - but the term 'ghosting' was not in the english lexicon then. But parents often did complain they rarely heard from their kids, and the visits became more infrequent over time.
It does seem however, to be a more "Western" phenomena than in other countries where staying close to family, and even multiple generations living together is the social norm - often because of financial constraints. Though it is becoming more and more like that in the US as wealth inequality along with poverty has grown. What used to be normally affordable: house, car, education and even groceries - now is becoming a major financial burden on Americans. More American children are continuing to live with their parents than ever before.
The extended family was the norm throughout human history because it was the most adaptive and functional kind of family. Those societies lucky enough to still have it don't keep it because of financial constraints, but because they haven't yet become fully westernized. This is important to understand because people seem bewildered by why going no-contact is so common in the U.S. Here's why: the nuclear family is a disaster. If you don't understand that you don't understand what children are up against. In an extended family, even if your parents are crazy, there will be someone, or multiple someones, who care about you and give you an outlet for the feelings you have about your inadequate parents (rage, sadness, despair). Those people save you, but in the nuclear family there is no one else. You're on your own. That's why I would rather be a dog in the U.S. but a child in Mexico. Nuclear families are much more prone to abuse, end of story; it's a straightforward math problem. Our challenge is to get back to multi-generational households, ASAP. There's a reason that is the last thing the establishment wants...
I agree with most of that, but I'd put forward multigenerational households have the same issues and it wasn't a norm for the most of human history, just western history, which has always sucked.
Rather emphasis on community over bloodlines was the norm throughout most nonhierarchical cultures.
I'd say getting back to open community where people stop putting these dividing lines between themselves based on last names and dna is about the only way out of the unending cycles of oppression, inequality and this authoritarian culture.
Nepotism goes on forever so long as we insist that the people we share a bloodline with are so much more important than the kids across the street.
Congratulations, you have just reinvented Communism!
You're right that larger units were the norm throughout most of our history as a species and I stand corrected, but I disagree that multigenerational households are no better than the nuclear family. I don't believe that people always emerge from the former unscathed, not at all, but the evidence seems overwhelming that abused and neglected children who have a witness to their suffering are more likely to turn out alright. In a multigenerational home, there are simply more candidates for that job. In fact, many survivors will tell you that they had a grandmother they were close to, even if they're unaware of how critical that was. This is no coincidence, though others certainly can and do fill the role of enlightened witness. There is only one substitute for the extended family in terms of producing psychologically healthy children: a comprehensive social safety net. Every major society on earth that I can think of has one or the other of those, except for one. Think about it.
"...[G]oing no-contact is so common in the U.S. Here's why: the nuclear family is a disaster."
This is it exactly! The structure of the nuclear, isolated household puts way too much pressure on all the members of the family.
The problem is not usually a moral failing by individual parents (although sometimes it is); most often the issue is the nuclear family itself, and the excessive strain it puts on relationships.
Even the most loving, patient, hard-working parents sometimes still can't compensate for the deficits of the nuclear family structure. And sadly, often the adult children blame the individual parents, rather than the system.
Once you realize we're all victims of the nuclear family, it's easier to have compassion for everyone in the family, at least in those situations where there wasn't outright abuse.
I’m not sure what you mean by “moral failing.” Child abuse is child abuse, and the damage is extensive regardless of its nature. Everyone in an abusive nuclear family may be a victim of it , but survivors can never be expected to analyze why they were made to endure what they did or have compassion for their abusers (I know that’s not what you’re saying). For most it’s a huge step forward just to understand that their parents didn’t love them, a formidable psychological task. As for the strain on relationships inherent in the nuclear family, you’re spot on! Intensity of dependence breeds stress, resentment, and abuse, regardless of what kind of relationship we’re talking about. In fact, child abuse is always most damaging when perpetrated by parents or anyone the child is dependent on (Jennifer Freyd), especially when there are no other witnesses, as in the nuclear family. It’s refreshing to hear from someone who gets this. A person can be highly formally educated but if he or she has no experience with non-nuclear family, they’re going to think “family” is two parents and their kids, as if it were natural. So it is that few Americans understand how abnormal our familial relationships are or why they’re so dysfunctional.
It always happened, but when it did one could at least assume that there was something very, very wrong with such a family (extreme violence, incest, the like.) That argument, however, no longer holds - the 25% rules it out decisively. And while grown children seldom finding time for their parents has long been a phenomenon, this is a wholly different and much less savage beast than ghosting is. Ghosting means permanent, deliberate and open-ended dismantling of all potential ways of contact. Brutal, absolute shunning, deliberately with no redress. You are comparing a golden retriever to a rabid wolf here, metaphorically speaking.
the thing is that none of us can really know what goes on behind closed doors. Men who appear kind and thoughtful in the community can be rapists. Women who seem like caring mothers can be violent. Children who seem well adjusted can be completely confused. There are so many contributing factors to distance between family members. It is probably better to withhold judgement when we don't really know.
Absolutely. Parents may not be able to control their rage/ange behind closed doors, but they sure as hell know you don't show your ugliest side in public anymore. (This used to be OK up until the 1980s or beyond, after which it was limited to private settings.) You have no idea how the average person you meet on the street treats their children. No idea.
Certainly, and very valid for each individual case. However, there is something very, very wrong about not recognizing the beyond horrifying mass grooming aspect of the entire situation. Confused kids who seem well-adjusted are easy top catch for any kind of groomer for any kind of nefarious purpose(s). And it is not something that only happens to someone else. My elder daughter shares your first name, btw.
It really isn't brutal. It's like every other relationship and the supposed specialness of parents is a charade. Either you're close or you aren't, the designation of mommy or daddy is a moot point and there's no sense in living a lie just to dogmatically obey old world rules that often act as shackles formed out of guilt and a pressure to normalize.
And being that so many parents never surrender their authority role over their grown child makes it so the relationship can never mature and you're forever stuck relating to these people as something less than an equal.
Most people I've known through my entire life in fact don't care to hang around their parents and are glad when it's over. That's why it's so common for kids to move far away or want to do so.
Jesus. Guessing you're not a parent. God I hope you're not.
You are not even worth replying to. Ego trip duly noted. Now feel free to crawl back under the rock and stay there. Thanks!
Thanks jamenta. Very sober and honest comment. I believe disintegration of familial relationship have been strongly impacted by false economy and the loss of familial "roots". It is a travesty.
Well expressed Ante Skrabalo! I feel that Caitlin's article is devoid of nuance and the multiple permutations-combinations of the dynamics of child-parent relationships (even before factoring in cultural differences and mixed-ethnicity issues).
Good comment Ante. I don't think the "ghosting" situation is all that new. Parents continue to work their *jobs* and maintain peer relationships. There is usually no real behavioral change after children have left the nest. That said:
Departing offspring are faced with all new challenges of adulthood. Finding viable relationship. Joining in or initiating career. Purchasing a home or finding same... None of it is easy, and most children were not apprised that all this shit would hit the fan.
I think the article inflates a pretty flat tire. Jus' sayin'
I agree, this story goes both ways. I and my 6 siblings were virtually abandoned by our father 6 months after my mother died when my father met a new woman who didn’t want children. We were age 11 to 17 when my dad, a superintendent of schools no less, left us.
Going forward I raised my two children (one a daughter I didn’t give birth too) in a fairly child centric household putting their wants and needs before my own, which seemed the right thing to do at the time. Fast forward 20 years, 2 decades of my daughter’s addiction with all its attendant selfishness, anger and abuse, my daughter has now fired me as her mom, but is close with her formerly physically abusive birth mother (who hit her with a belt throughout her childhood, unbeknownst to me until recently) who subsidizes the daughter’s life. Turns out apparently money can buy “love”.
I’m sorry. That must be painful.
Thank you for this well written comment.
I feel you, Ante. See my new comment.
I reject this perspective as misguided. Many parents are horrible, many are not. Many adult children are horrible; many are not. Blaming aging parents for their adult children shutting them out is a substitute for understanding and compassion and ways to reconcile.
" Only if we understand can we care. Only if we care will we help. Only if we help shall they be saved."
Jane Goodall
“Someone has said that it requires less mental effort to condemn than to think.” Emma Goldman
I don't think Caitlin's perspective is totally misguided, but she is leaving out quite a lot. My mother was violent and horrible. I hated her until I went into therapy where I was encouraged to try to understand how she got to where she was. She grew up poor in England. Then the second war came along when she was 15. Life messed her up. I could never convince her to go to therapy herself, but I am glad I did. It stopped me from hating her.
My point is that pointing a finger does not help a sad situation.
Thank you for this comment Susan. Brings the nuances into such scenarios.
After my son was born, I looked at all the people on the streets who were drunk, drug addicted, messed up and not really "nice" and kept thinking that once, they too were perfect little beings just like my son. Life can be shitty sometimes.
That is all the more reason not to be judgmental but to seek understand an compassion. Horrible parents probably had horrible parents: judging only continues the cycle whereas we need a perspective of healing to end it.
Thank you so much for this important article. I come from a family of narcissistic (cult-like) parents, one in which I was the scapegoat. It takes a lifetime to heal from narcissistic abuse, and healing is impossible without going no contact with your abusers. Yes, they've had difficult lives, but eventually people need to grow up and learn to take responsibility for their behavior.
Interestingly, people rarely criticize those who leave abusive cults.
I couldn't even begin to heal or thrive until after the death of my parents, although I largely minimized contact with them during their lifetimes. I also had to go no contact with my narcissistic sister, who was the so-called golden child. Attacking adult children for going no contact with their parents, siblings, and/or other abusive relatives is merely to perpetuate the abuse.
Hear, hear! It's sad to see commenters making excuses for abusive parents. It's not our responsibility to fix our parents (as if it could even be done); it's our responsibility to draw boundaries that protect us from people who've shown they don't care about us. Going no-contact with my family was one of the most empowering things I've even done, after a profoundly disempowering childhood. Staying in touch with people who've abused you or gone along with abuse makes is impossible to fully heal, or for many, to heal at all. Imagine stating that going no-contact is the problem, even when you don't know if parents have ever said "I'm sorry"! Good grief, no wonder we're so screwed up in the west.
Megan,
You simply don’t know who is lying. Stay with your own family and talk from there.
Where have I done otherwise? In fact, in one of my comments I said specifically that you can't know how someone is treating their children unless you live with them.
No one -- parent or adult child -- should be abusive and expect a loving relationship in return.
“I have heard it said that the way our adult children treat us is our performance review for our job as parents.” is exactly correct.
Once a child is an adult and no longer dependent on their parents/guardian, they’re free to make their own decisions and choices. If a parent/guardian has nurtured, nourished and protected the child while demonstrating love, devotion and appropriate response to the developing child’s talents and needs, chances are that same adult child will reciprocate. If not, well, ‘you reap what you sow’. For what it’s worth, that’s my take as a parent and grandparent.
I’m so grateful for this nearly daily injection of clarity and rational analysis by Johnstone. It’s my lifeline and often a wake up call.
As a former child, now adult who did exactly what you describe here, I can attest to the shitty behavior not being tolerated when kids reach adulthood. I have been always at odds with my mom and dad, both victims of dysfunctional upbringing which they generously passed on to us. Every time I heard people saying "you only have them", I was in a mental state of flipping the table. Because if that is the incentive to stay connected and be emotionally abused in the most laissez faire manner, thanks but no thanks. I try hard with my own kids and while they are at the age where I am their world, I know the day will come when they will become their own person and I will have to make sure I don't fudge it up. Nothing is for granted folks.
I endorse your conclusion! Experienced similar from both sides of the debate.
One of my parents was “shitty”, the other, from my view point as a child, long suffering and doing the best they could. I stopped contact with the shitty parent long ago. I’m still in daily contact with my loving, kind parent and they are in their 90s!
For my performance evaluation, all 3 of my adult children have scored me ‘excellent’ in some areas and ‘needs improvement in others’. I take it seriously.
I’ve decided the best course of action is to be an adult and 1) admit what I did or failed to do ***and the impact/harm it caused***, 2) say I am sorry for what I did/failed to do, and 3) make it right, whatever it is and for however long it takes.
I do not ask for or expect forgiveness because that’s asking my child for something on top of enduring whatever harm I caused.
In my view a victim does not owe a perpetrator anything, ever. The victim’s task is to survive by any means necessary and move on with their lives unfettered by what a perpetrator did to them. In the case of a parent and adult child, reduced, low or no contact are all rational and reasonable courses of action.
❤️
Exactly. 100%. I wish all Americans would put themselves in children's shoes like you do, but sadly we're strongly discouraged from doing so. This no-contact movement may be what's needed to get many bad parents to wake the hell up.
I agree! ❤️🤗❤️
love the "I don't ask then to forgive me". Yes!!! very wise!
Your divorce comparison is the right one, and it cuts both ways. My mother lived under the old rule and stayed married to my father. I lived under it too, and in 1998, in my thirties, I broke it and cut him off.
There was no social media and no therapist pointing me toward the exit.
There was my father, who let himself into my apartment with my emergency keys and waited in the dark to tell me, a grown woman with a career, that I was a bad girl, scaring me half to death. There was a call to my office, passed to me in a meeting by my assistant, saying Dad was on the phone and my mother had had a stroke. She hadn't.
Those are two episodes out of thousands, big and small, over three decades.
The WSJ piece opens with parents in a Chicago conference hall asking why. My father never asked. My mother told me he felt I'd treated him unfairly and been ungrateful. She said he died heartbroken.
Yes. It's fascinating to see another way the social hierarchy dominance model is exposing itself. To see how much parental entitlement there is--and how little self-reflection. To watch how quick people are to villainize adult children rather than inquire about the parents' behavior. (Even Oprah, apparently is aligning with the "get in line" perspective in a recent deep-dive on this topic.)
What is so stunning to me about this "epidemic" is that people seem ignorant of the fact that human beings are social mammals--our literal survival depends on being part of the group. Anytime someone steps away from the acceptance of their group (including the family unit) it comes at a significant personal cost, and people only pay that price when the alternative (staying) is unbearable.
Every person I know who is estranged from their parents (and it's several) spent years, or decades, trying Every Single Thing they possibly could to "make the relationship work." Eventually, they had to accept fact that the choice was either A) lose the relationship and gain their own health and well-being or B) stay in contact and lose their health and well-being.
Estrangement is a relationship choice. No one makes it lightly.
The parent-child relationship is our most fundamental bond. Emotinally, biologically, it runs deep. People do not drop a relationship with a parent lightly. Most people will compromise or forfeit their well-being to a small or large degree in order to keep the tie.
Until they don't. And often things change when they have kids themselves. Once adult children become parents themselves they realize they have to do something different. They don't want to pass the same garbage on to their kids. Or it's a capacity issue. They're simply so stretched by the enormous job of being parents in a society that doesn't support parents...that they no longer have the bandwidth for whatever mental/emotional gymnastics they were juggling in order to stay in relationship with their parents.
I also wonder how many of that supposed 25% of adult children who "ghost" their parents are queer. Queer folks often create chosen family for themselves--because they have to. For many, being queer costs us our family. Usually because of parental rejection of the queer child.
I have zero contact with my family. It's been utterly heartbreaking. The loss is enormous. The grief is ongoing. And navigating life's intense challenges without the safety net of family--can be terrifying.
Yet, when I look at this so-called "epidemic" in our culture I see an important change happening amidst the pervasive pain. More and more people are breaking generational cycles of toxic behavior and abuse.
Divorce is an incredibly complex and painful process that can be reduced down to one word: NO.
No, this isn't working. No, I'm not going to do this anymore.
Same with estrangement.
Estrangement is also incredibly complex and painful.
No, this isn't working. No, I'm not going to do this anymore.
I'd love to see more people get curious about what adult children are saying no TO, rather than jumping on them telling them they need to say yes instead.
'No one makes it lightly.' I'm not sure about that.
I said no to my father in 1998 and cut him off. We never spoke again. He was himself for 36 years, and I couldn't stand it any longer.
He beat me when I was three for not being able to do something a three year old girl couldn't do. The rest was psychological warfare. From the time I was ten, he walked into my bedroom every night without knocking, and when I asked him to stop so I could study in quiet or change clothes in private, he wanted to know what I was hiding that I needed a closed door. He boasted to his colleagues about my Ivy degrees, then told me at home that I was making him look bad but he never said how. When I asked my mother to stop him, she said, "He's your father, dear. He loves you."
After my surgery in late 1997, I phoned home to tell my parents the surgery went well but I needed to sleep; he called me a sulky little bitch who didn'thave time to "talk to her old father". The next spring he reported me missing to the police twice. I wasn't missing and I typically called home three times a week.
My Substack is my account of what I said no to, and why. You'll find it under my name.
I can't understand why you would not be kind to your adult children. I still feel my children's hurt even though they are in their 50s and 40s. I always try to be a sounding board for them. No, I can't make their problems disappear or solve them. Nor would it be right for me to interfere unless I was asked. They are adults and not my clones. And I like the fact that they are all individuals with their own perspective on life.
>>"I can't understand why you would not be kind to your adult children."
This is actually pretty easy to understand. People have traumas (think PTSD, etc.). And such people are parents too. They not only have to deal with their own traumas, but also bring up children successfully.
It's daunting enough being a good parent in a normal world - and having personal traumas (through no fault of their own) and bringing up children in our "present world" brings aboard challenges that are not easily surmounted.
Most parents don't 'choose' to be 'unkind' to their children. Different traumas and personality factors affect a person's interaction with the world (either with their children or anybody else for that matter).
I'm already seeing parental apologists in the comments, so....
Growing up, I dealt with a parental unit that believed in child rearing through threats, intimidation and violence. If this came up in a discussion with others, someone would invariably say something like, "But you didn't go hungry, so you should be grateful for that". And my response would be something like, "That thing you just said makes me want to whack you upside the head so hard you see stars. Would that be okay if I bought you lunch afterwards?"
Well, that was then and this is now, and I've toned down my response to statements like that quite a bit (or at least respond more calmly). Of course the "that was then" part was about half a century ago, and the journey to "this is now" has not been a short or easy one, but here I am.
So if any young person who's dealing with something like this reads this, all I can say is "Hang in there. It will end. And remember to not repeat it. Real freedom can only come from breaking chains".
the reason you're seeing "parental apologists" (that's a pretty awful term) post is because they have experiences that challenge Caitlin's sweeping generalizations -- as if only parents are horrible to their children and children are never cruel to their parents. A LOT of children are absolutely horrible to their parents: abusive, manipulative, exploitative, constantly take & take and never give back. Those experiences are just as valid as yours. You seem unwilling to believe that and prefer to the black & white picture that leaves all the responsibility onto parents.
Where would their children learn such behaviors?
Thank you.
Some adult parents are assholes. Some adult children are assholes. Sometimes, its assholes breeding pedigreed assholes.
The simplest explanation that most people don't consider.
I would add - sometimes all are true at once - parents, children, and the social/cultural circles/groups they occupy are full of assholes.
Sometimes your parents/offspring/kittens/whatever are assholes. Granted.
Sometimes you gotta take a hard look and ask yourself the following: "Am I The Asshole Here?"
Sometimes, it's both.
Yep. Additionally, I usually don't like generalizing things (or assuming/forming broad opinions) based on statistics (and data collection practices) that I don't know enough about.
But of course, I'm human too - and sometimes I make the same mistakes I tell other people not to.
Assholes with big dogs really can be annoying.
One thing I want to callout is that our relationships have all taken a toll since we were locked down and separated so things have become much worse between parent and child, even siblings and old friends.
We’re going to need to restore the community that society has destroyed:
https://unorthodoxy.substack.com/p/the-greatest-tragedy-of-the-last
Or, your children may be unkind and without mercy and truth. It's about the breakdown of the country. Or, your children may be spoiled rotten and have lost decency and respect and understanding for people - including parents - that have lost their way.
It's been easier to deny the pattern of sin and forgiveness with our shift towards secularism
There is something sad and sick about a performance review for parents. We are hardwired as humans to remain connected to family, particularly parents, for emotional and physical health.
Yes, some parents may be dysfunctional but most are not. However, in a society where parents are instructed in what they can and cannot say, do or be, it is impossible to pass any performance review.
This attitude to parents is just a new form of bullying by spoiled, immature, selfish children. Our parents did their best and most gave everything for their children and expecting a modicum of care and respect from those children, regardless, is not asking too much.
The rules of honouring thy parents, held across millennia, and ignored by some, existed for a reason. If we do not respect those who gave us life and their lives to raise and protect us, as most parents do, then we cannot respect ourselves or anyone else.
The article is interesting but simply reflects a ME, ME, ME, NOW, NOW, NOW generation and not the failings of the vast majority of parents.
Getting old is hard and for those who are financially, physically or mentally challenged in any way, even harder. We are all flawed and some are damaged and everyone is wounded. We all make mistakes and we all made mistakes raising our kids but we were doing our best, as are they with their children even if like their parents, they get some things terribly wrong.
One thing is certain adult children who ditch their parents can expect the same and worse, regardless of anything they do, because that is the lesson they are teaching their children. The lesson they give is that family is not important, loyalty, consideration, compassion, care, common human decency do not matter, and my convenience is the only consideration. What a miserable world they are handing on to their children and creating for themselves as they age.
The world is selfish enough as it is, driven by power and profit, and this is just more of the same, albeit with the power being over vulnerable parents who will always love and care deeply for their children, whatever age they may be, and the profit being maintaining a self-serving world where you dictate how, what and when others may participate.
Very few parents would ever give up on a child no matter what that child does or how much pain they may experience from what that child does. Who would advise a parent when a child of any age is hard work to ditch them? Very few. So why give this advice to children in regard to parents?
Nothing worth having is easy and they make babies cute for a reason. Being a parent is often hard, and it is a lifetime commitment, but always rewarding if we can learn from what we experience. Wise parents will teach their children that about every relationship.
Instead of just making your life easy, or so you think, abide by principles and do the right thing and learn from it, no matter how hard it might be.
As to, 'there isn't a single person on this planet who is entitled to treat you badly.' Of course no-one is entitled to do that but many do in their woundedness and fear and we need to be bigger than that and respond with compassion.
And those who take this maxim and run with it will be very busy finding their own definition of 'badly' and punishing parents and others for it. Treating you badly can be any of the following:
telling the truth, no matter how painful
not agreeing with all you say and do but loving you anyway
allowing you to make mistakes which cause pain but which make you stronger
trying to prevent you making mistakes which will cause pain
refusing to pander to your weaknesses
being unable to meet what you call your needs
caring about you actively
I could go on. There are hundreds of things we can define as 'being treated badly' particularly when we are emotionally immature and selfish.
Life is a great experiment but one thing is certain, a world without compassion and consideration for others, regardless of what they do and are, is a very nasty world indeed.
Thank you so much for this comment.
👏👏 Well expressed Roslyn Ross! For once, I completely agree with you on what you said above.
EMPiRE PSYCHOSiS
❓❓It couldn't possibly be that Anti-Family, Anti-HUMANiTY, Corporate TotalitarianFascists ENGINEER Conspicuous Consumption Cultures while simultaneously ENFORCiNG borderline poverty POLiCiES that necessitate parental absenteeism which Results in over-stressed adults and arrested development, self-absorbed children who, from childhood, "Normalize" reactionary-RealityTV-cruelty so profoundly that it becomes the foundation of their “adult” Identity❓❓
There you go, we agree on something.