Absolutely. I am white and quite materially comfortable and financially secure enough to consider myself a member of the (disappearing) American middle class; but I vote on real issues that actually affect real life for real people -- not identity politics or other distractive/divisive comparative non-issues.
Second of all, in a country established on genocide of Native Americans now disposessed and exiled to bantustans ("reservations") and mass slavery of Africans, and in which nazi-style Jim Crow was daily life for many people still alive today, their children still subject to thousands of summary killings annually by the police and unjust imprisonment by the "Justice" Department in the tens of thousands, in a country where huge swathes of Mexico were annexed and Mexican people turned into minorities on their own ancestral lands, the peoples of Puerto Rica and polynesians in Hawaii outright colonised.....well, its quite a claim to suggest these are not "real life issues for real people".
America has for a long time been a magical land in which no one says they are working class and no one will admit to being in the upper class - the oligarchy. Because the ultra-rich know that there is no ladder, but the ordinary folk have been brainwashed into thinking they are all climbing it.
The OECD published a seminal study in 2010 called "Intergenerational Social Mobility: a family affair?"
The study revealed harsh truths about the lies underlying the US economy and society and its Horatio Alger myth and indeed the lies underlying capitalism itself.
If Obama and the Dems had actually paid attention and done something about it, rather that doubling down at home and abroad on ideologically-driven obsessions with crony capitalism.....we might not be looking at a a worldwide epidemic of fascism, demagoguery and the decent of the Dems themselves into semi-fascism.
But nobody paid attention, so here we are, in the land where everyone is still pretending to be "a middle class country" while the edifice crumbles around the entire society.
Kiudjoe.. I did try to read the content of your links. The first was not available and the second was ok... My eyes are not what they used to be but in general the rhetoric sounded nice, but nice guys finish last I'm told.
The problem is that reading a text written in 2010 is obviously a redundant exercise. When observing the number of people on the planet being evicted from their shelters and living n tents or under tarps in some of the richest countries on the planet, it seems that the species is fully at war with itself and will end up blowing each other into radioactive dust, probably sooner than later. The disparity rhetoric between rich and poor has been around since Moses floated down the Nile and so social reforms, no matter how well packaged, are proving to be utterly useless. It's not only the members, but the species. With approx 12,000 nuclear warheads pointed at each other, the ultimate stupidity of that species is but a fool's armlength away from ending its careers.
Sorry I had missed your comment before. Thanks for sending it and will read your link. The only real class in society today is the MONEY class., and without MONEY, everyone who tried to buy a goody at the candy store discovered on Day One that without MONEY, there is no candy..... or shelter, or food, or power. The only class that counts is the MONEY class.. .
I'd say at this point: 1) the homeless class. 2) those struggling to avoid that one financial setback that would send them into homelessness. 3) those still living in relative comfort and security with a roof over their heads. 4) cops from local law enforcement on up thru DEA and ICE officials who have the privilege of immunity, and 5) the billionaire class who presides over these classes. I listed these classes in order of how many members each has, and if this isn't accurate now, then it is headed this way.
Number 3 used to be what we would call the "middle class" and even if one sunk into homelessness (#1), that category was not irredeemable. Today homelessness is like an ever-expanding tar pit, and once you're sucked in, you're in there for good. Also #3 class used to be home owners, but in another generation will be made up of serfs/renters.
Thanks for naming a few classes... can't argue with any of them... .... perhaps adding that the possibility of moving from higher to lower classes sets the stage for wars and the severity of impending climate changes.
Since capitalism has evolved since Marx's time, there are more classes than just the 2 (Marx referred to the 'petite bourgeoisie' also, though he did not adequately define them, instead calling them 'smaller capitalists').
The classes:
- bourgeoisie, petite bourgeoisie, proletariat, lumpenproletariat, peasants, and a new "transnational capitalist class".
imo, most other classes are actually mere 'subdivisions' of the 2 actual classes. some (petite bourgeoisie, pmc, the 'middle' class, maybe the 'political' and 'military' classes) are condoned to mitigate the ruling class' problem of the 'numbers' caitlin regularly mentions by creating the illusion that there's 'class mobility' without taking the loyalty oath ('but first you must learn how to smile as you kill') and being complicit in the great game of exploitation of the many by the few.
the subdivisions of the proletariat indeed seem more tied to the historical circumstances of marx' time with the 'proletariat' being the part of the working class that can be made 'conscious', the 'lumpenproletariat' being the part that is so marginalized that they can't be made 'conscious' as all of their energy is absorbed by the struggle for mere survival, and the (feudal) 'peasants' being unable to get 'conscious' because they haven't experienced industrialization and actual capitalism. (maoist thought kinda tried to disprove that one can't skip the industrialization step in the evolution, which was quite a struggle).
but totally agree with the premise that capitalism evolved significantly since marx and that one should 'dialectically' adapt marxism to the circumstances that have arisen since and not disregard the ability of a conscious capitalism to reactionary adapt and counter the analyses and praxis of marxism and socialism. (e.g. i don't think marx and lenin foresaw capitalism's use of fascism to counter and co-opt revolutionary sentiments into a reset to the status quo).
Something I have never found in Marx's writing, what happens when we don't evolve from Capitalism to Socialism. I have a feeling we are living it with this mad dash to nuclear war : (
I don't believe that is what Marx wrote. In fact Marx had said to Lenin, Stalin and Trotsky their project to Communism would fail not having passed through Capitalism if history writes it correctly. Let me know where to find a better source. Not an expert in Marx's writings.
If someone doesn't participate in doing the work that needs done to maintain a society should they be living at the same level of comfort as others who work 40 or more hours a week? Anyone who works hard and diligently doesn't want to give it away to someone who is capable of work but just doesn't want to work. It is a fact that if you work hard and long enough you will raise yourself up to the middle class. Something I experienced.
Some people just like to be lazy. Why climb a mountain if you are just satisfied to look at it? Work is just that... Work, a four letter word for me. .. I work... but only if I have to... Does a lion hunt on a full stomach?? I don't mind being low-class because I favor lazy over busy, but if any class ruins environments with work, that becomes a messy class.
Absolutely. I am white and quite materially comfortable and financially secure enough to consider myself a member of the (disappearing) American middle class; but I vote on real issues that actually affect real life for real people -- not identity politics or other distractive/divisive comparative non-issues.
First of all, no one is "white" really:
https://bannekerinstitute.fas.harvard.edu/files/bannekerinstitute/files/on_being_white.and_other_lies_baldwin_0.pdf
Second of all, in a country established on genocide of Native Americans now disposessed and exiled to bantustans ("reservations") and mass slavery of Africans, and in which nazi-style Jim Crow was daily life for many people still alive today, their children still subject to thousands of summary killings annually by the police and unjust imprisonment by the "Justice" Department in the tens of thousands, in a country where huge swathes of Mexico were annexed and Mexican people turned into minorities on their own ancestral lands, the peoples of Puerto Rica and polynesians in Hawaii outright colonised.....well, its quite a claim to suggest these are not "real life issues for real people".
Kudjoe, This is brilliant! You called out a very limited perspective for what it actually is.
Why should there be a 'middle class' ? What are the other classes?
America has for a long time been a magical land in which no one says they are working class and no one will admit to being in the upper class - the oligarchy. Because the ultra-rich know that there is no ladder, but the ordinary folk have been brainwashed into thinking they are all climbing it.
The OECD published a seminal study in 2010 called "Intergenerational Social Mobility: a family affair?"
https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/A-Family-Affair-%3A-Intergenerational-Social-Mobility/664c39fa5e4ebc14784f542ca3147d9180523f7e
https://read.oecd-ilibrary.org/economics/economic-policy-reforms-2010/a-family-affair_growth-2010-38-en#page1
The study revealed harsh truths about the lies underlying the US economy and society and its Horatio Alger myth and indeed the lies underlying capitalism itself.
If Obama and the Dems had actually paid attention and done something about it, rather that doubling down at home and abroad on ideologically-driven obsessions with crony capitalism.....we might not be looking at a a worldwide epidemic of fascism, demagoguery and the decent of the Dems themselves into semi-fascism.
But nobody paid attention, so here we are, in the land where everyone is still pretending to be "a middle class country" while the edifice crumbles around the entire society.
Kiudjoe.. I did try to read the content of your links. The first was not available and the second was ok... My eyes are not what they used to be but in general the rhetoric sounded nice, but nice guys finish last I'm told.
The problem is that reading a text written in 2010 is obviously a redundant exercise. When observing the number of people on the planet being evicted from their shelters and living n tents or under tarps in some of the richest countries on the planet, it seems that the species is fully at war with itself and will end up blowing each other into radioactive dust, probably sooner than later. The disparity rhetoric between rich and poor has been around since Moses floated down the Nile and so social reforms, no matter how well packaged, are proving to be utterly useless. It's not only the members, but the species. With approx 12,000 nuclear warheads pointed at each other, the ultimate stupidity of that species is but a fool's armlength away from ending its careers.
"test written is obviously a redundant exercise...."
Uh no. And all the rest you say goes downhill from there. Ending up nowhere. Best yet you quoted the bible. I guess it was written this year then.
Kudjoe,
Sorry I had missed your comment before. Thanks for sending it and will read your link. The only real class in society today is the MONEY class., and without MONEY, everyone who tried to buy a goody at the candy store discovered on Day One that without MONEY, there is no candy..... or shelter, or food, or power. The only class that counts is the MONEY class.. .
I'd say at this point: 1) the homeless class. 2) those struggling to avoid that one financial setback that would send them into homelessness. 3) those still living in relative comfort and security with a roof over their heads. 4) cops from local law enforcement on up thru DEA and ICE officials who have the privilege of immunity, and 5) the billionaire class who presides over these classes. I listed these classes in order of how many members each has, and if this isn't accurate now, then it is headed this way.
Number 3 used to be what we would call the "middle class" and even if one sunk into homelessness (#1), that category was not irredeemable. Today homelessness is like an ever-expanding tar pit, and once you're sucked in, you're in there for good. Also #3 class used to be home owners, but in another generation will be made up of serfs/renters.
Marci...
Thanks for naming a few classes... can't argue with any of them... .... perhaps adding that the possibility of moving from higher to lower classes sets the stage for wars and the severity of impending climate changes.
You're right, it definitely doesn't signal anything good.
from a marxist perspective there's only 2, workers and owners.
Since capitalism has evolved since Marx's time, there are more classes than just the 2 (Marx referred to the 'petite bourgeoisie' also, though he did not adequately define them, instead calling them 'smaller capitalists').
The classes:
- bourgeoisie, petite bourgeoisie, proletariat, lumpenproletariat, peasants, and a new "transnational capitalist class".
imo, most other classes are actually mere 'subdivisions' of the 2 actual classes. some (petite bourgeoisie, pmc, the 'middle' class, maybe the 'political' and 'military' classes) are condoned to mitigate the ruling class' problem of the 'numbers' caitlin regularly mentions by creating the illusion that there's 'class mobility' without taking the loyalty oath ('but first you must learn how to smile as you kill') and being complicit in the great game of exploitation of the many by the few.
the subdivisions of the proletariat indeed seem more tied to the historical circumstances of marx' time with the 'proletariat' being the part of the working class that can be made 'conscious', the 'lumpenproletariat' being the part that is so marginalized that they can't be made 'conscious' as all of their energy is absorbed by the struggle for mere survival, and the (feudal) 'peasants' being unable to get 'conscious' because they haven't experienced industrialization and actual capitalism. (maoist thought kinda tried to disprove that one can't skip the industrialization step in the evolution, which was quite a struggle).
but totally agree with the premise that capitalism evolved significantly since marx and that one should 'dialectically' adapt marxism to the circumstances that have arisen since and not disregard the ability of a conscious capitalism to reactionary adapt and counter the analyses and praxis of marxism and socialism. (e.g. i don't think marx and lenin foresaw capitalism's use of fascism to counter and co-opt revolutionary sentiments into a reset to the status quo).
Something I have never found in Marx's writing, what happens when we don't evolve from Capitalism to Socialism. I have a feeling we are living it with this mad dash to nuclear war : (
Landru, You don't evolve from Capitalism to Socialism. The next step from capitalism - specially from the neoliberal kind we now have - is Fascism.
I don't believe that is what Marx wrote. In fact Marx had said to Lenin, Stalin and Trotsky their project to Communism would fail not having passed through Capitalism if history writes it correctly. Let me know where to find a better source. Not an expert in Marx's writings.
John. I understand what you are saying. Middle class do not CARE about the underclass. So what do you want? I am confused?
In a relativity free society there are always 3 classes: High, middle and low.
Wizard,
"In a relativity free society there are always 3 classes: High, middle and low." Isn't that a most pressing problem ?
If someone doesn't participate in doing the work that needs done to maintain a society should they be living at the same level of comfort as others who work 40 or more hours a week? Anyone who works hard and diligently doesn't want to give it away to someone who is capable of work but just doesn't want to work. It is a fact that if you work hard and long enough you will raise yourself up to the middle class. Something I experienced.
Carolyn,
Some people just like to be lazy. Why climb a mountain if you are just satisfied to look at it? Work is just that... Work, a four letter word for me. .. I work... but only if I have to... Does a lion hunt on a full stomach?? I don't mind being low-class because I favor lazy over busy, but if any class ruins environments with work, that becomes a messy class.
And that way of life is absolutely fine, as long as handouts aren't expected, or taken, from the working poor or middle class.
Each according the their needs. Works for me.
Absolute nonsense.
Really............maybe in the USA?
ALWAYS?