The Palestinians already had a perfectly fine country with lots of culture, big cities, agriculture, education until the British came along and decided it was an empty land that they could have and give away to a group of their choosing. They need to give it back to the Palestinians.
The British have invaded at one time 171 of the 193 countries in the world. What a damaging legacy for the human race. There is no better monoment to their shamelessness and malign influence than the continued existence of the British Museum, the largest warehouse of stolen goods in the world.
The British Empire does indeed have a poor track record in the history books ( to say the very least ) and they mostly left the colonised countries they cut loose, to deal with the Empires' mess. But it is history. Now the problem is the Amerikan Empire.
History can provide context but I don't think it offers any solutions to our current problems.
I agree, but note I was replying to Susan T who noted the role of the British in the present quagmire that is the ME. I was simply providing more context.
Agree, George. I always wondered what gave the Bastard Brits the right to dig up the tombs of the ancient Kings of Egypt. Who the fuck thinks they can desecrate the deceased?
The territory of Palestine was never a "country". The Zionists & the UK fought a war contesting the territory. The Zionists won both the war & the territory. The proverb "To the Victor Go the Spoils" applies here. The British no longer control the former (or present) territory of Palestine, so they can't "give it back to the Palestinians". If the Israelis were willing to reject Israel's being a Jewish ethnostate, they could give Gaza & the West Bank back to the Palestinians, but they won't. They would argue that without a country of their own, the Jews of the world would never be safe, & someone argued in one of these comments exactly the same for the Palestinians. Perhaps both arguments are true. I don't know. But it seems patently clear that there cannot & will not exist two ethnostates in the old Palestinian territory. Too many entities are against it. It's not even a stalemate. It's a "This is the way things are, mate. It ain't Cyprus."
For all warriors (I'm not a warrior) might is right, & what's justified is what one can get away with. Lots of Holocaust deniers believe the Holocaust never happened, but some are just trolls. Lots of neo-Nazis believe the Holocaust was justified & are angry bc the Nazis didn't achieve their goals. I don't fit in any of those categories. "Judge not lest ye be judged" is how I suppose some Christians would respond. You do you. It don't matter to me what others think, believe, or say. Sticks & stones etc.
No, I'm just not engaging in any "If pigs could fly" discussions. There's no pseudo-intellectual activity I dislike more than Michael Sandel philosophy of ethics trolley questions. I'm not the Walrus & I don't like oysters.
I would support giving Palestine back to the Palestinians or anything that Palestinians wanted. I think what people really want though, is their country, culture, agriculture, and freedom back. I watched this documentary last night https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUCeQt8zg5o and felt sad and angry that all that was taken away by colonizers and made worse when Israel came into being.
I guess. But I think your proposal is kind of wimpy. What people really want is the opportunity to build back up what was stolen. I don't think people anywhere would really want to be relocated to somewhere that was being given to them to get them out of the way. Your proposal would make more sense if the Israelis went to live in "less-developed part of Sudan bordering Egypt with a size close to that of Israel". They are the ones living on stolen land, not the Palestinians.
Completely agree - though with the US and European powers backing Israel, I fear that this situation is going to be harder to resolve in some ways than Nazi Germany where the European powers were aligned against Germany.
As I said to Feral Finster earlier: ".... I'm .... not engaging in any 'If pigs could fly' discussions. There's no pseudo-intellectual activity I dislike more than Michael Sandel philosophy of ethics trolley questions. I'm not the Walrus & I don't like oysters."
First of all many thanks to Caitlin for highlighting the hypocrisy, double standards and hegemonic machinations of empire. It is time that the US be condemned by world civil society for crimes against humanity. The world has witnessed how complicit they are with Israel for the genocide of the Palestinian people. US should be standing in the dock with Israel. Their rules based world disorder has created the dystopia humanity is living through. They can with impunity designate countries and groups as terrorists; sanction countries and steal their assets, stunting their growth. Shamelessly weaponise food and other essential prerequisites for survival. Consumed with power, start wars which they never want to stop.
To Susan T, Chang Chokaski and Jon Carver, It's been interesting following your arguments regarding Peter Rodes Robinson's hairbrained scheme for the Palestinians. Won't Sudan have something to say about it? What gobsmacked me is his assertion that " the establishment of the new country would proceed under UN and US protection". US protection!!!!
The Palestinians already had a perfectly fine country with lots of culture, big cities, agriculture, education until the British came along and decided it was an empty land that they could have and give away to a group of their choosing. They need to give it back to the Palestinians.
The British have invaded at one time 171 of the 193 countries in the world. What a damaging legacy for the human race. There is no better monoment to their shamelessness and malign influence than the continued existence of the British Museum, the largest warehouse of stolen goods in the world.
The British Empire does indeed have a poor track record in the history books ( to say the very least ) and they mostly left the colonised countries they cut loose, to deal with the Empires' mess. But it is history. Now the problem is the Amerikan Empire.
History can provide context but I don't think it offers any solutions to our current problems.
I agree, but note I was replying to Susan T who noted the role of the British in the present quagmire that is the ME. I was simply providing more context.
Agree, George. I always wondered what gave the Bastard Brits the right to dig up the tombs of the ancient Kings of Egypt. Who the fuck thinks they can desecrate the deceased?
In my Ninth edition of Encyclopedia Britannica ~ 1890, it is not really accepted that blacks are human. See entry under Negro.
The territory of Palestine was never a "country". The Zionists & the UK fought a war contesting the territory. The Zionists won both the war & the territory. The proverb "To the Victor Go the Spoils" applies here. The British no longer control the former (or present) territory of Palestine, so they can't "give it back to the Palestinians". If the Israelis were willing to reject Israel's being a Jewish ethnostate, they could give Gaza & the West Bank back to the Palestinians, but they won't. They would argue that without a country of their own, the Jews of the world would never be safe, & someone argued in one of these comments exactly the same for the Palestinians. Perhaps both arguments are true. I don't know. But it seems patently clear that there cannot & will not exist two ethnostates in the old Palestinian territory. Too many entities are against it. It's not even a stalemate. It's a "This is the way things are, mate. It ain't Cyprus."
So if might is right, that would mean that the Holocaust was justified.
For all warriors (I'm not a warrior) might is right, & what's justified is what one can get away with. Lots of Holocaust deniers believe the Holocaust never happened, but some are just trolls. Lots of neo-Nazis believe the Holocaust was justified & are angry bc the Nazis didn't achieve their goals. I don't fit in any of those categories. "Judge not lest ye be judged" is how I suppose some Christians would respond. You do you. It don't matter to me what others think, believe, or say. Sticks & stones etc.
You are trying to change the subject.
No, I'm just not engaging in any "If pigs could fly" discussions. There's no pseudo-intellectual activity I dislike more than Michael Sandel philosophy of ethics trolley questions. I'm not the Walrus & I don't like oysters.
I' was pointing out your hypocrisy and you didn't like it. In fact, you're still trying to change the subject.
But I could not care less what you like.
Sez you. IsraHell won’t exist in another ten years. The world has finally seen them for who they are.
Correct.
Everything you say is true. Would you oppose my proposal, if a super majority of the Palestinians agreed with it?
I would support giving Palestine back to the Palestinians or anything that Palestinians wanted. I think what people really want though, is their country, culture, agriculture, and freedom back. I watched this documentary last night https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUCeQt8zg5o and felt sad and angry that all that was taken away by colonizers and made worse when Israel came into being.
>>anything that Palestinians wanted<<
Including my proposal I assume.
I guess. But I think your proposal is kind of wimpy. What people really want is the opportunity to build back up what was stolen. I don't think people anywhere would really want to be relocated to somewhere that was being given to them to get them out of the way. Your proposal would make more sense if the Israelis went to live in "less-developed part of Sudan bordering Egypt with a size close to that of Israel". They are the ones living on stolen land, not the Palestinians.
Well said Susan T! My sentiments exactly!
Completely agree - though with the US and European powers backing Israel, I fear that this situation is going to be harder to resolve in some ways than Nazi Germany where the European powers were aligned against Germany.
As I said to Feral Finster earlier: ".... I'm .... not engaging in any 'If pigs could fly' discussions. There's no pseudo-intellectual activity I dislike more than Michael Sandel philosophy of ethics trolley questions. I'm not the Walrus & I don't like oysters."
it reminds me very distinctly of another frequent poster.
First of all many thanks to Caitlin for highlighting the hypocrisy, double standards and hegemonic machinations of empire. It is time that the US be condemned by world civil society for crimes against humanity. The world has witnessed how complicit they are with Israel for the genocide of the Palestinian people. US should be standing in the dock with Israel. Their rules based world disorder has created the dystopia humanity is living through. They can with impunity designate countries and groups as terrorists; sanction countries and steal their assets, stunting their growth. Shamelessly weaponise food and other essential prerequisites for survival. Consumed with power, start wars which they never want to stop.
To Susan T, Chang Chokaski and Jon Carver, It's been interesting following your arguments regarding Peter Rodes Robinson's hairbrained scheme for the Palestinians. Won't Sudan have something to say about it? What gobsmacked me is his assertion that " the establishment of the new country would proceed under UN and US protection". US protection!!!!
RIGHT. ON. JON!