I ran across a quite a few young Israelis during my backpacking years around Asia in the 80s and 90s and can mostly support what Caitlin says about them. In particular many of them had phone phreaking skills and as a result most cheap tourist places had removed their phones after receiving huge bills listing calls to Israel. A Chinese friend of mine who ran a Singapore crash pad had reluctantly implemented a policy of turning away Israeli customers after multiple instances of arrogance and racism towards Chinese and Malay staff.
But I *did* meet a few humane Israelis who treated their non-European hosts well and were appalled by the behaviour of their countrymen and women (BTW, I was also appalled by the racism and drunken yobbism of many of my fellow Australian tourists in Asia and avoided places they congregated).
On a long Indian train trip I met an Israeli who had just finished his stint as a Merkava gunner and was deeply respectful of Indians and their culture. He was also horrified with the attitude of his former IDF colleagues towards Palestinians and was the first to open my eyes about the abuses the latter suffered under the illegal occupation. We became friends and traveled together for some time and it seemed his well of horror stories about the IDF was bottomless.
I was merely pointing out that you can't apply universal generalisations to people based on nationality any more than you can based on race, religion, gender or sexuality. OTOH you can make more valid generalisations regarding politics and ideology.
Substitute 'German' for 'nazi' in your comment and you might learn something.
Seems to me he doesn't believe any Israelis (or Jews in general) are capable of 'reform'.
I gave an example of a former IDF soldier who reformed *me* (at least in regards to my naivete about the Occupation and the extent of IDF abuses of Palestinians) but I don't think he reformed. I don't think he ever bought into the Zionist agenda or settler-colonial racism against Palestinians. I wonder how many others would have the strength of character to be like that after being born and raised as an Israeli Jew.
Oh dear. I've also been an acquaintance of Antony Loewenstein since his days as a Fairfax cadet and an admirer of both his and Jonathon Cook's journalism about Israel. Both are Jewish, so I guess that means they're potential war criminals, mass rapists and pedophiles and I'm one of their enablers.
Presumably my long term friendships with two Palestinian Australian activists also means I dehumanise Israelis and am an apologist for every abuse ever committed by any Palestinian anywhere at any time.
I guess treating people as human beings rather than instances of a type makes me a hater.
Maybe after ending this genocide, Zionists and other Jewish people could change their minds? It is possible as a long-term possibility. Changing minds can be difficult, or it can happen suddenly? With regard to Israeli hate, it appears to be difficult. All of this is wrong.
i see your point. i don't see how it will lead to palestinian liberation. people, even palestinians, will not agree to the extermination of the jews to make up for what has been done to palestinians.
because i'm a westerner and conditioned as such. i am also pretty paranoid regarding neo-nazi's and zionist hasbarists who both promote the idea. but, again, i understand your point: some westerners often seem to object to certain generalisations and feel compelled to counter them. i'd suggest that you also mention polls (supporting israel's actions) among christians, americans, russians and europeans, and muslims in saudi arabia, jordan, egypt and maybe distinguish between ordinary people and 'leaders', elites.
i see those jews that oppose the genocide as above criticism. i see others (aaron bushnell) opposing the genocide as above criticism. i see opposition to dehumanization as above criticism. those who think hating max blumenthal is more important than despising matthew miller or donald trump should be criticized imo.
all ordinary people are different from their elites, otherwise they wouldn't be elites. genocidal israeli's are bad, their elites are worse. jews, christians, muslims, hindus, russians, chinese, guatemalans, ... who don't care about buying israeli stuff are bad, those still trading with israel are worse. those still trading weapons are the worst.
i think israelis oppressed the palestinians for 3 generations with the total support of the western empire.
I ran across a quite a few young Israelis during my backpacking years around Asia in the 80s and 90s and can mostly support what Caitlin says about them. In particular many of them had phone phreaking skills and as a result most cheap tourist places had removed their phones after receiving huge bills listing calls to Israel. A Chinese friend of mine who ran a Singapore crash pad had reluctantly implemented a policy of turning away Israeli customers after multiple instances of arrogance and racism towards Chinese and Malay staff.
But I *did* meet a few humane Israelis who treated their non-European hosts well and were appalled by the behaviour of their countrymen and women (BTW, I was also appalled by the racism and drunken yobbism of many of my fellow Australian tourists in Asia and avoided places they congregated).
On a long Indian train trip I met an Israeli who had just finished his stint as a Merkava gunner and was deeply respectful of Indians and their culture. He was also horrified with the attitude of his former IDF colleagues towards Palestinians and was the first to open my eyes about the abuses the latter suffered under the illegal occupation. We became friends and traveled together for some time and it seemed his well of horror stories about the IDF was bottomless.
What sort of idiot comment was that?
I was merely pointing out that you can't apply universal generalisations to people based on nationality any more than you can based on race, religion, gender or sexuality. OTOH you can make more valid generalisations regarding politics and ideology.
Substitute 'German' for 'nazi' in your comment and you might learn something.
Universal? Occi just gave an example of what i assume is a reformed IDF soldier.
I'm sorry, where does Occi do that?
Seems to me he doesn't believe any Israelis (or Jews in general) are capable of 'reform'.
I gave an example of a former IDF soldier who reformed *me* (at least in regards to my naivete about the Occupation and the extent of IDF abuses of Palestinians) but I don't think he reformed. I don't think he ever bought into the Zionist agenda or settler-colonial racism against Palestinians. I wonder how many others would have the strength of character to be like that after being born and raised as an Israeli Jew.
I seek freedom for all beings, an end to all bigotry and tribalism and the abolition of nation states.
The fact Caitlin and I were both writing about Israelis and you chose to make it about Jews says something about you.
Oh dear. I've also been an acquaintance of Antony Loewenstein since his days as a Fairfax cadet and an admirer of both his and Jonathon Cook's journalism about Israel. Both are Jewish, so I guess that means they're potential war criminals, mass rapists and pedophiles and I'm one of their enablers.
Presumably my long term friendships with two Palestinian Australian activists also means I dehumanise Israelis and am an apologist for every abuse ever committed by any Palestinian anywhere at any time.
I guess treating people as human beings rather than instances of a type makes me a hater.
Both perhaps?
Maybe after ending this genocide, Zionists and other Jewish people could change their minds? It is possible as a long-term possibility. Changing minds can be difficult, or it can happen suddenly? With regard to Israeli hate, it appears to be difficult. All of this is wrong.
On this point I'd agree. Israel/US and other NATO countries arevclearly wrong.
i see your point. i don't see how it will lead to palestinian liberation. people, even palestinians, will not agree to the extermination of the jews to make up for what has been done to palestinians.
because i'm a westerner and conditioned as such. i am also pretty paranoid regarding neo-nazi's and zionist hasbarists who both promote the idea. but, again, i understand your point: some westerners often seem to object to certain generalisations and feel compelled to counter them. i'd suggest that you also mention polls (supporting israel's actions) among christians, americans, russians and europeans, and muslims in saudi arabia, jordan, egypt and maybe distinguish between ordinary people and 'leaders', elites.
i see those jews that oppose the genocide as above criticism. i see others (aaron bushnell) opposing the genocide as above criticism. i see opposition to dehumanization as above criticism. those who think hating max blumenthal is more important than despising matthew miller or donald trump should be criticized imo.
all ordinary people are different from their elites, otherwise they wouldn't be elites. genocidal israeli's are bad, their elites are worse. jews, christians, muslims, hindus, russians, chinese, guatemalans, ... who don't care about buying israeli stuff are bad, those still trading with israel are worse. those still trading weapons are the worst.
i think israelis oppressed the palestinians for 3 generations with the total support of the western empire.