You have seriously missed the fucking point of Caitlin's article. Although if you do want to talk about 'the genital mutilation industry' then you should be concentrating on the evil trauma that is 'circumcision'. Category A child abuse. Stage one in the trauma-based mind control indoctrination.
If you want to drone on about your fucked up anti-trans agenda then why don't you write your own onanistic post about it, then get all your followers to reinforce your bigotry. I would imagine that here on Caitlin's newsletter you are only inviting a dogpile. And quite rightly so, because you're part of the very reinforcement mechanism employed by the abusers and propagandists she is highlighting.
Remember the human brain is gendered, because males and females behave differently, and behaviour is governed by the brain. A sense of 'identity' is solely the product of the brain, not the body, because 'awareness' is in the brain.
Sometimes, like 1 in 10,000, a child is born with a gender-configured brain which is at odds with the physiological gender which is determined mainly by chromosomes. Brain gender is not governed by chromosomes. It develops epigenetically and can be adversely affected by e.g. exposure to excess hormones during gestation. If this happens, you get a male brain in a female body or a female brain in a male body. That's called 'gender incongruence'. It's simply a very rare medical condition. It's not a 'choice' and it's not a 'delusion'.
There are the scientific/medical facts.
Whether you choose to ignore those facts and remain a bigot or not is now entirely up to you. Either way, have a nice day, eh?
My day - though amazing - is over. Hard to know when someone's going to check their messages, so the best thing is to leave that part out and be petty in a more creative, clever way. Read and learn:
Your "scientific facts" are incorrect and you do not understand genetics. This is my field of study, so you do not have a chance to push lies here.
There is no "brain gender". No child is born with a "gender", by which you mean "sex role" (gender is a linguistic attribute for nouns in certain languages). Everyone is born just as an individual. We are taught to behave in particular ways. Masc/fem are arbitrary lists of attributes, half good half bad each. The answer is to become the good lists and rout out the bad in yourself. That is *humanity*.
Y chromsome = male. No exceptions. No human with a y chromosome has ever once gestated a fetus. The y chromosome is an inhibitor. It "throws the switch to side track the train", so to speak. Male/female isn't a fork in the road. Female is default and everyone is female physically for the first 8 weeks of gestation. Hey, by that token, EVERY dude is born a transman.
For a surgeon to slice up the penis or vulva & vagina of someone who believes they are the other sex is *genital mutilation*.
We know this because we are XX chromsome people who identify as transwoman. We are the experts on trans, not you.
I always find it a delicious irony when a mansplaining Dunning-Kruger syndrome gamma-type like you encounters someone like me who is actually more of an expert in the scientific field you claim to be involved in. I am doubting, actually, that you are involved in the field of genetics because you clearly don't understand the subject. It's essentially something called 'biochemistry'. There is a difference between a 'gene' and 'gene expression', which is called 'epigenetics'. Epigenetics requires 'triggers' which is where chemistry comes into it. Triggers can include, for example, hormones, which are just chemical catalysts. Brain development (let's call it 'neuroscience') proceeds epigenetically, not 'socially constructed'.
You also seem to be ignoring the rare cases when gene expression 'misfires' or goes wrong, which results in developmental disorders, of which 'gender incongruence' (i.e. trans) is one of many. Specifically in the case of gender incongruence the misfiring in question relates to the brain, not the body.
So this is where 'neuroscience' comes into it - clearly another branch of science of which you are woefully ignorant.
Now, to provide you with definitive proof that you are objectively wrong I could simply point you towards umpteen brain imaging studies showing 1/ the brains of male and female humans are differently configured (and act differently) and 2/ the brains of trans people more closely match their gender identity, which is at odds with their physical sex characteristics. I doubt you'd either understand or acknowledge these scientific research papers, however.
This is what's known in science as 'objective evidence'. I would've thought that even a materialist ('bioessentialist' is the word) like yourself might at least understand the concept of 'objective, demonstrable evidence', but clearly not. Or are you just wilfully ignorant in order to preserve your obvious prejudice?
Either way, I would strongly suggest that if you really are employed in the field of genetics then you consider a change of career, because people like you, with a low level capacity for understanding, do an immense amount of damage to the study of science. And the teaching of science for that matter. Like I said, I am something of an expert in these areas, which is why it is a delicious irony to encounter an ignorant mansplainer and make him look like a total twat in front of everyone reading this!
So yeah, from now on, once you've wiped the egg off your face, please do reconsider your chosen profession before you do any more damage.
Holy frijoles, you just did multiple paragraphs of iamverysmart without citing a SINGLE actual case of exception to the following:
*Y chromsome = male = cannot gestate ..no exceptions.*
Even the only person with a female body and XY chromosomes (a person with COMPLETE Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome) cannot gestate. And those people are not the ones "trans"ing to "woman", as they have been raised as girls to begin with. They have nothing to do with dudes in dresses demanding access to women's spaces (in biology, we call this "sexual mimicry"..look it up).
Intersex people are tired of being used to shoehorn this bullshit. Have some respect for them; they already have enough to deal with in society as it is.
One thing I've noticed with people like you is your tendency to aggressively project. It's very psychologically revealing. It's also a sign of spiritual immaturity, because you need some authority to tell you what to think, or feel, or believe. You're incapable of normal, rational common sense thought. You are a very young soul, and as such, infantilised.
Furthermore, you are so wedded to these beliefs that when you feel those beliefs are threatened (with common sense, rational thought) you feel personally threatened, so you resort to ad hominem attacks.
You see, psychologically mature human beings don't need to be told. And they have the ability to do something called 'critical thinking'. Likewise, they can do their own research. You clearly know nothing about the medical condition known as 'gender incongruence', but more importantly, you have not bothered to actually educate yourself about it. If you had, you'd know it's just a very rare medical condition (about 1 in 10,000 prevalence), characterised by a disorder of brain development. In a dimorphic species like humans there's a male and female, and this applies to brain configuration as much as physiology. Sometimes the two develop incongruently. It just happens. There's a tried and tested treatment pathway (starting with all-important puberty blockers) which, unfortunately, can only treat the symptoms (gender dysphoria) not the underlying condition - it's impossible with current technology to change the gender of the brain or body. To deny a child with that condition puberty blockers is to force them through puberty, and the irreversible changes associated with it. That's abusive and cruel.
If you understood even the basics of neuroscience you would understand this. Your bigoted transphobia is the equivalent of saying children with leukemia are a threat and should be denied treatment. That's called child abuse.
You say there are 'zionists' 'promoting' trans issues. Well, are there not zionists on every side? It's called sowing discord. It's also 'whataboutery'. It doesn't matter what your zionists are doing, it's the issue that matters.
One of the reasons this issue is important to me, apart from basic moral principles, is because the issue of child abuse matters to me personally (I am a victim/survivor of childhood abuse). For you to equate gender care services with child abuse is itself abusive. It's the denial of gender care services which is the abuse.
And the chances are - also ironically - I know far, far, far more than you will ever do about the global child abuse network.
So I suggest, if you are capable of it, that you try and educate yourself, rather than blindly believing what you have been manipulated into believing (which goes back to the point of Caitlin's article - it was clearly aimed at people like you).
👏👏 Fantastic response and very informative comment too! Thank you Evelyn K. Brunswick, for explaining things (and putting into words) many of the same thoughts I have - you do it so well!
Thank you for your reconciliatory reply, it's appreciated. Yes, you are correct that the issue has been weaponised. So in other words the bad guys have propagandists and agitators on both sides (as usual!). That's why we shouldn't necessarily take sides, but examine the issue itself objectively and form an opinion that way. I am aware of the purely medical facts of the trans thing, so that part is easy. Once I've got that out of the way I can clearly see all this weaponisation, and it's the innocent trans people (especially children) who get caught in the middle and suffer accordingly.
One of the telling things is that transgender stuff was never an issue up until very recently, maybe ten years or so ago. If I recall correctly this coincides with when the WHO finally got around to declassifying the trans condition from a 'psychological' condition (which it isn't), and changed the name to 'gender incongruence', thus acknowledging that it's a brain development disorder, not some psychological 'choice' that can be either made by an individual, or which can be manipulated into an individual (in the same way that 'conversion therapy' for homosexuality doesn't work). Just as you can't convince someone they're, I don't know, a different colour or something. I suppose you could use some serious systematic trauma-based mind control to do it, but the sheer effort involved in that for no ROI makes it pointless.
And yes, you're right that there is a profit-driven (pharma/medical) industry which preys on young people, but it's not the trans thing - aside from anything else it's such a rare condition that the profits simply aren't there. Puberty blockers, for example, have been around for 60 years (and used for childhood gender incongruence for 40 or so I think), and are totally off-patent (like all the other treatments for trans people). So I think that profit-motive argument is a bit of misdirection. There are better avenues of profit for these bad guys (childhood vaccine schedules spring to mind, with the subsequent chronic illnesses etc.), but certainly generalised childhood stress and thus psychological issues would also be a source of revenue.
The obvious solution to that is to make healthcare publicly owned and not-for-profit. I don't know if you are aware but in my country of origin (Britain) successive governments have been doing their damnedest to privatise the NHS. And make people sicker at the same time. Go figure.
1/ It's ironic you bring transhumanism into it and then accuse me (and others) of being secret Zionists because the transhumanism-transgender conspiracy theory is one of those far-right anti-semitic tropes. And it's bullshit. Maybe it's because of the prefix 'trans' ? If so, and you genuinely believe it, then you're even dumber than you look.
2/ You people always bring this 'detransitioning' rubbish into it. The best you can do though is come up with a few anecdotes (same thing applies to the 'transwomen are a threat in bathrooms rubbish'). As soon as you are confronted with proper statistics you lose the argument. For example, there was a (British NHS) study of 3,000 transgender post-treatment people, of which only 16 expressed lack of total dissatisfaction (which is just dissatisfaction, not total regret, let alone detransition). That's 0.53%. So we're talking about a treatment pathway with a 99.47% success rate. Name me another treatment pathway with a 99.47% success rate?
See, that's what it comes down to - medical ethics. And you're on the wrong side. This relates to that awful Keira Bell, and her handlers, who pretty much succeeded in preventing thousands of children with a rare medical condition from having access to the life-saving treatment they needed. Many of them would've committed suicide, so Bell and the handlers (and you who support them) literally have blood on their hands, as well as child abuse.
One of the worst things about you people likewise is that you masquerade as 'being concerned about children's welfare' when it's actually the complete opposite.
And I'll repeat what I said - you are the very type of person to whom Caitlin's article was aimed. You weren't born a transphobic bigot, so where did you get it from? It was given to you. And you never questioned the veracity of the propaganda nor the motivations of the people doing that propaganda. You are the one who has been successfully conditioned into bigotry. Obviously you will never be able to admit that, because that would be humiliating for you.
Lumping trans people into a sex predator category is where your argument goes cold. Why the fuck do you care about them so much? Because you’re too fucking stupid to see past propaganda.
Genital mutilation is a religious and cultural "right" and has been practised on millions and millions of people over the last 5,000 years because a) God told them to and b) it shows that childhood is over and the individual is now an adult.
If you really want to play that game, tell the Jews that Circumcision is now prohibited.
It should not be a religious or cultural right for anyone to alter the genitals of a minor, except if it is necessary to allow the child to urinate normally. Both FGM and circumcision of minors are reprehensible.
That is your opinion and many things (reprehensible or not) should or should not happen however in the real world, other's opinions also matter and quite honestly it is arrogant to believe that your opinion is more moral or right than another's.
“Opinions are like orgasms… mine matters most and I really don’t care if you have one.”
A person's human rights stop short of someone else's body. It cannot possibly be ethical to mutilate the genitals of a child for anything other than a life-saving medical reason.
It cannot possibly be right to have an opinion that disagrees with 5,000 years of cultural practise and hundreds of millions of 'mutilations'.
When water is scarce, then circumcision is a means of reducing, removing the chance of infection in the prepuce. That is why hundreds of millions of Africans, Arabs, Jews and others do it.
50 years ago it was, like vaccination, the advice of the whole medical profession. It reduced the likelihood of HPV, so they said.
As far as female circumcision, the practise usually involves opening the hood and thereby improving the sensitivity of the clitoris.
However your opinion is so overwhelmingly important that those billion or more people should immediately change their religious and cultural traditions because it offends you.
"It cannot possibly be right to have an opinion that disagrees with 5,000 years of cultural practise and hundreds of millions of 'mutilations'." There are also thousands of years of things like slavery and forced marriage. Do you also endorse all those things?
The risk of infection of the prepuce is not increased when water is scarce. That is nonsense, and was thoroughly disproved in WW2. Intact soldiers in North Africa did not experience problems with their foreskins more often than circumcised soldiers. Circumcision was started in Judaism as a minimalist form of human sacrifice.
Circumcision does not reduce the likelihood of HPV.
Female circumcision does not improve the sensitivity of the clitoris.
Why do you just make up lies, PJ London?
Circumcision was largely abandoned in my country in the 1970s. It was led by the medical profession, and has not resulted in any increase of any penile problems.
Sexual mutilation of minors of either sex has no medical indications whatsoever. Religious and cultural traditions that violate the human rights of minors should absolutely be banned worldwide.
Wow, you are so deluded. Religious superstition and religious customs are IRRELEVANT TO THE ISSUE OF INJURY TO ANOTHER PERSON, ESPECIALLY A CHILD OR BABY!!!
It makes sex and childbirth horribly painful for the woman and obliterates any possible joy. It's an awful form of male control over women even though women carry it out and it is exceedingly painful. I imagine quite a few infections result.
Your opinion has been wrong in just about every manner. Your dipshit book you’ve been writing is common knowledge. You’re siding with the MAGA bigots, fucking dipshit!
Circumcision should be prohibited. It's category A child abuse. Remember they do it at 8 days old. It becomes an internalised trauma, which results, after indoctrination, of hatred of the other/strangers, as well as irrevocably destroying the mother-child bond. Explains a lot, psychologically.
No 'god' would ever demand such an evil, child-abusive practice. That's not a god, it's a demon pretending to be a god. By gaslighting his followers into doing one of the most evil things imaginable - abusing their own children - he is essentially succeeding in getting them to do anything evil. As we are seeing in Palestine.
".. It becomes an internalised trauma, which results, after indoctrination, of hatred of the other/strangers, as well as irrevocably destroying the mother-child bond. .."
What total bullshit!
You have no facts to support that ridiculous assertion.
"..No 'god' would ever demand such an evil, child-abusive practice .." Well he is the "God" that all Jewish and billions of Christians follow and have faith in, do you have several billion followers over centuries? No, I did not think so.
The Africans have the circumcision as a rite of manhood. No God, merely 20,000 years of tradition. Like Muslims, this rite is conducted between the ages of 13 and 16, so no the trauma does not have any effect on Mother-child relations.
Your feelings and opinions do not apply outside of your skull and yet you feel you have the right to judge and instruct others in how they should conduct their lives.
You have a serious mental issue and should seek help.
Yes. Any of us that offer opinions that disagree with yours are arrogant people--how DARE we express an opinion?! If we persist clearly we are in need of medical help. But be careful--you have come dangerously close to expressing an opinion yourself!
Not at all, you can express an opinion, as I do, but I do not feel that my opinion should form the basis for world behaviour.
It is the dictatorial mind set that believes that their opinion has some moral, ethical 'right' to be enforced on everyone else, regardless of their religion, culture or tradition that makes it a mental issue.
Actually, research shows that circumcision permanently lowers the pain threshold.
Furthermore, circumcision has been linked to significantly increased likelihood of the child becoming a rapist as an adult.
Your attack on Evelyn as having a "serious mental issue" is a disgusting ad hominem, or rather, ad mulierem, attack.
It seems highly likely that you are a circumcised man who is desperately defending his mutilated state, unable to cope with the reality that his parents chose to deprive him of tens of thousands of specialized erogenous nerve endings.
I was wondering whether he was also a circumcision victim, gaslighted into defending it because he's not allowed to say his parents abused him. That's the pathology right there, and he's clearly been triggered somehow.
I know he denies it in his reply below, but I have my doubts...
2/ African tribes don’t mutilate babies who can’t have anything explained to them and can’t consent. That’s why they wait until teenagerhood. So it’s not a trauma.
3/ Actually, there are facts to support these assertions - there are many psychology papers on the subject. I’m not going to link to any of them for you however because a/ you wouldn’t read them, because you’re not capable of changing your opinions, and b/ I very much doubt you’d understand the papers anyway. So no point, really.
4/ I don’t see what your point is about some demon pretending to be a god having so many followers. If anything, that simply proves just how powerful the coercive control has been. It’s infantilising. Mature human beings do not need to follow some authoritarian entity, god or demon. They don’t need ‘commandments’ or ‘diktats’ or to be told what to do, think, believe, feel etc. You clearly do, because you are incapable of psychological maturity. Mature people are innately good, and can tell the difference between right and wrong. The fact that you are attempting to defend lifelong mutilation of an innocent 8-days old baby, with all the accompanying trauma, adequately demonstrates your own inability to tell the difference. I seriously hope you don’t have children.
1) no because about 20% - 50% don't make it to puberty. It is a rite of passage to adulthood.
2) Are you insane, it is much more traumatic when you can see and understand what is happening and not have access to painkillers.
3) For every Psychologist that shares your view I can bring another who is totally opposed. it is the nature of today's society, in every sphere.
4) One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter, one man's demon is another man's god. The point about followers is that it has bearing on the weight of an opinion. "Mature people are innately good" you have no data to support that assertion and further you cannot define "good" except in your cultural environment. Killing is good if the government sanctions it. Theft is moral if it is in the form of taxes. Sex is bad unless you are 16 (in some states) 18 (in others) or 21 if you are insane.
5) I am not 'defending' anything except freedom. your viewpoint is not shared by millions not even in the western culture, so for you to make your opinion the basis of what others should or should not do is sheer hubris.
I hope that you do not have children, I encouraged mine to think for themselves and question everything. Which is why they are extremely successful and wealthy.
I am far too responsible to bring a child into a dystopian hell like this world. It would be cruel, abusive, and selfish. The only potential reason why I'd bring a child into this world would be to fully train it in all the skills and talents and understanding it needed to become a leader of the resistance. If that necessitated Monarch-style MPD programming then so be it.
Even so, given the number of children in the world without parents I would go down the adoption route, and make very sure that child knew it was loved.
If your children are 'extremely successful and wealthy' then I'm guessing they must be very well adapted to this society.
'Sincerely' there is zero "Hysteria" in any of my responses.
When people make assertions, such as ".. hysterical in your responses" or "... It becomes an internalised trauma, which results, after indoctrination, of hatred of the other/strangers, as well as irrevocably destroying the mother-child bond. .." it is arrogant and annoying.
I make clear when I am expressing an opinion and do not expect, much less demand, that others share that opinion.
"Billions of people have been wrong before" is true, but that offers no reason to suppose that they are wrong in this instance.
I find it amusing that maybe 1 in 10 responses actually address an issue and attempt a logical, fact based refutation.
The rest are just annoyed that their beliefs and ideas have no real basis that can be defended.
I am fully aware of that, but it has no bearing on the fact that Jewish tradition and beliefs are still held, or that millions of Muslims and Africans still practise it.
It may be a cultural/religious thing but it IS harmful to children and should be blocked. I refer to male neonatal circumcision, not FGM which is an atrocity that should be blocked everywhere. Males survive their infant circumcision with no evident harm done, but survivors of FGM are horribly mutilated.
Males don't survive their infant circumcision with no harm done. Their pain threshold is permanently altered. Their likelihood of growing up to be rapists is increased. Their risk of meatal stenosis is hugely increased; 37% of men who have been circumcised develop some degree of meatal stenosis. Their risk of erectile dysfunction by the time they reach their forties is also very significantly increased.
No it's not - there are a lot of academic research papers on the harms, especially psychological, of neonatal MGM. Don't rely on me to give you links though - look it up yourself. It'll be more worthwhile that way.
Again, some male circumcisions are 'botched' and cause scarring and problems for life. Some Female circumcisions are botched and cause harm, as do many plastic surgeries and tattooing.
However, the fact is that normal female operation has no more issues than the male operation. It is western/missionary faux 'outrage' that has caused this to be an issue not facts. Each year 100s of African youths die undergoing their circumcision rites, but you don't hear any western/UN hysterics about that.
Just because someone and the vicar do not like something does not mean that it is wrong.
"normal" FGM is very different from what you say, unless we have been lied to. What I have read is that it is done to girls around 6 to 10 years old, with a piece of broken glass, and the object is to entirely remove the clitoris lest lust cause the girl to stray from her future husband--that it often interferes with menstruation and possibly sex. That the same societies also have husbands having their wives ' vaginas stitched to keep them tight, which makes sex painful for the woman but who cares about the woman?
First stop and think, even if the clitoris was removed (which it is not) how could this interfere with menstruation?
Given the position it would not even 'interfere' with sex.
The cultural prohibition on adultery and the consequences of being caught will stop any thought of "straying".
Of course millions of western women would not dream of vaginoplasty or labiaplasty which is why hundreds of clinics world wide offer it, usually with the man having to pay for it, but who cares about the man?
The general operation is to release the skin between the clitoral hood and the external cover. Thus increasing the area of the clitoris and increasing the pleasure. But then these people are savages so we are told.
N African women look forward to the 'rite' as Jewish girls do to their Bat-mitzvah. Incidentally Christian, Jewish, Muslim and Pagan women in N Africa undergo the ritual as it is cultural and not religious. Some Muslim women in Asia also have this done at about the same time the boys are circumcised.
There is a video, recorded at a medical conference, in which a female physician speaking to a large audience of physicians is singing the praises of trans surgery because it is a cash cow due to the need for multiple follow up surgeries. I saw the video and was appalled at the forthright admission. Unfortunately, I don't have a link to the video.
Males, not females, I assume. If your healthcare wasn't a business, perhaps medics would be less quick to remove body parts that may become infected and get them sued later ....,
Neither you nor the child have any choice in whether they are trans or not. It's a medical condition characterised by a disorder of brain development. Same as sexuality. You don't get to choose whether you are hetero, L, B, G, or whatever.
Bigotry often stems from ignorance. Innocent ignorance I can possibly forgive. Wilful ignorance, absolutely not.
Evelyn, I know that. That's why I dismissed him with a one-off. You will not convince these people with science. It's a waste of time.
Listen, we are allowed to argue publicly about this issue. We are NOT allowed to argue about Israel.
This issue is EXACTLY what Caitlin is talking about. This is a manufactured distraction. Of course real people are going to get hurt, but both parties feel trans people are useful, in the same way Roe was. Or 'Super Predators' were during the drug war. Or 'Welfare Queens' were during the Reagan era. You manufacture fear of an other, and 'the adults' laugh their asses alll the way to the bank.
I can promise our leaders do not actually give a fuck about this except as it serves as a wedge.
You do realise you are making the exact same argument that anti-abortionists made for overturning reproductive rights? “You need to sit down and speak to the young women who regretted their abortion.” - Yes, some women regretted it. So, my rights are stripped from me? Because you love women? Get outta here.
How do you feel about the war in Ukraine, the slashing of the social safety net, the rise of global totalitarianism? See, that’s a REAL issue.
You’re such a propagandist, it’s fucking ridiculous. The fact people are even talking to you about this non-issue, shows just how stupid people are. Villainizing trans people is part of the fascist game plan. People trying to incite hate towards anyone but the true evil.
They got their orders from their "Lord and Savior" Trump and his minions to hate, demonize, and dehumanize transgender people, who happen to be Red MAGA's target de jour.
You have seriously missed the fucking point of Caitlin's article. Although if you do want to talk about 'the genital mutilation industry' then you should be concentrating on the evil trauma that is 'circumcision'. Category A child abuse. Stage one in the trauma-based mind control indoctrination.
If you want to drone on about your fucked up anti-trans agenda then why don't you write your own onanistic post about it, then get all your followers to reinforce your bigotry. I would imagine that here on Caitlin's newsletter you are only inviting a dogpile. And quite rightly so, because you're part of the very reinforcement mechanism employed by the abusers and propagandists she is highlighting.
Yes, MGM is almost as evil as FGM
You’re a weak coward, who punches down
Agree that MGM is almost as abusive as FGM.
Genital mutilation is bad.
Guess what mangling someone's penis to appease their delusion about which sex they are is.
What makes you think it's a delusion?
Remember the human brain is gendered, because males and females behave differently, and behaviour is governed by the brain. A sense of 'identity' is solely the product of the brain, not the body, because 'awareness' is in the brain.
Sometimes, like 1 in 10,000, a child is born with a gender-configured brain which is at odds with the physiological gender which is determined mainly by chromosomes. Brain gender is not governed by chromosomes. It develops epigenetically and can be adversely affected by e.g. exposure to excess hormones during gestation. If this happens, you get a male brain in a female body or a female brain in a male body. That's called 'gender incongruence'. It's simply a very rare medical condition. It's not a 'choice' and it's not a 'delusion'.
There are the scientific/medical facts.
Whether you choose to ignore those facts and remain a bigot or not is now entirely up to you. Either way, have a nice day, eh?
My day - though amazing - is over. Hard to know when someone's going to check their messages, so the best thing is to leave that part out and be petty in a more creative, clever way. Read and learn:
Your "scientific facts" are incorrect and you do not understand genetics. This is my field of study, so you do not have a chance to push lies here.
There is no "brain gender". No child is born with a "gender", by which you mean "sex role" (gender is a linguistic attribute for nouns in certain languages). Everyone is born just as an individual. We are taught to behave in particular ways. Masc/fem are arbitrary lists of attributes, half good half bad each. The answer is to become the good lists and rout out the bad in yourself. That is *humanity*.
Y chromsome = male. No exceptions. No human with a y chromosome has ever once gestated a fetus. The y chromosome is an inhibitor. It "throws the switch to side track the train", so to speak. Male/female isn't a fork in the road. Female is default and everyone is female physically for the first 8 weeks of gestation. Hey, by that token, EVERY dude is born a transman.
For a surgeon to slice up the penis or vulva & vagina of someone who believes they are the other sex is *genital mutilation*.
We know this because we are XX chromsome people who identify as transwoman. We are the experts on trans, not you.
I always find it a delicious irony when a mansplaining Dunning-Kruger syndrome gamma-type like you encounters someone like me who is actually more of an expert in the scientific field you claim to be involved in. I am doubting, actually, that you are involved in the field of genetics because you clearly don't understand the subject. It's essentially something called 'biochemistry'. There is a difference between a 'gene' and 'gene expression', which is called 'epigenetics'. Epigenetics requires 'triggers' which is where chemistry comes into it. Triggers can include, for example, hormones, which are just chemical catalysts. Brain development (let's call it 'neuroscience') proceeds epigenetically, not 'socially constructed'.
You also seem to be ignoring the rare cases when gene expression 'misfires' or goes wrong, which results in developmental disorders, of which 'gender incongruence' (i.e. trans) is one of many. Specifically in the case of gender incongruence the misfiring in question relates to the brain, not the body.
So this is where 'neuroscience' comes into it - clearly another branch of science of which you are woefully ignorant.
Now, to provide you with definitive proof that you are objectively wrong I could simply point you towards umpteen brain imaging studies showing 1/ the brains of male and female humans are differently configured (and act differently) and 2/ the brains of trans people more closely match their gender identity, which is at odds with their physical sex characteristics. I doubt you'd either understand or acknowledge these scientific research papers, however.
This is what's known in science as 'objective evidence'. I would've thought that even a materialist ('bioessentialist' is the word) like yourself might at least understand the concept of 'objective, demonstrable evidence', but clearly not. Or are you just wilfully ignorant in order to preserve your obvious prejudice?
Either way, I would strongly suggest that if you really are employed in the field of genetics then you consider a change of career, because people like you, with a low level capacity for understanding, do an immense amount of damage to the study of science. And the teaching of science for that matter. Like I said, I am something of an expert in these areas, which is why it is a delicious irony to encounter an ignorant mansplainer and make him look like a total twat in front of everyone reading this!
So yeah, from now on, once you've wiped the egg off your face, please do reconsider your chosen profession before you do any more damage.
Holy frijoles, you just did multiple paragraphs of iamverysmart without citing a SINGLE actual case of exception to the following:
*Y chromsome = male = cannot gestate ..no exceptions.*
Even the only person with a female body and XY chromosomes (a person with COMPLETE Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome) cannot gestate. And those people are not the ones "trans"ing to "woman", as they have been raised as girls to begin with. They have nothing to do with dudes in dresses demanding access to women's spaces (in biology, we call this "sexual mimicry"..look it up).
Intersex people are tired of being used to shoehorn this bullshit. Have some respect for them; they already have enough to deal with in society as it is.
👏👏👏👏
One thing I've noticed with people like you is your tendency to aggressively project. It's very psychologically revealing. It's also a sign of spiritual immaturity, because you need some authority to tell you what to think, or feel, or believe. You're incapable of normal, rational common sense thought. You are a very young soul, and as such, infantilised.
Furthermore, you are so wedded to these beliefs that when you feel those beliefs are threatened (with common sense, rational thought) you feel personally threatened, so you resort to ad hominem attacks.
You see, psychologically mature human beings don't need to be told. And they have the ability to do something called 'critical thinking'. Likewise, they can do their own research. You clearly know nothing about the medical condition known as 'gender incongruence', but more importantly, you have not bothered to actually educate yourself about it. If you had, you'd know it's just a very rare medical condition (about 1 in 10,000 prevalence), characterised by a disorder of brain development. In a dimorphic species like humans there's a male and female, and this applies to brain configuration as much as physiology. Sometimes the two develop incongruently. It just happens. There's a tried and tested treatment pathway (starting with all-important puberty blockers) which, unfortunately, can only treat the symptoms (gender dysphoria) not the underlying condition - it's impossible with current technology to change the gender of the brain or body. To deny a child with that condition puberty blockers is to force them through puberty, and the irreversible changes associated with it. That's abusive and cruel.
If you understood even the basics of neuroscience you would understand this. Your bigoted transphobia is the equivalent of saying children with leukemia are a threat and should be denied treatment. That's called child abuse.
You say there are 'zionists' 'promoting' trans issues. Well, are there not zionists on every side? It's called sowing discord. It's also 'whataboutery'. It doesn't matter what your zionists are doing, it's the issue that matters.
One of the reasons this issue is important to me, apart from basic moral principles, is because the issue of child abuse matters to me personally (I am a victim/survivor of childhood abuse). For you to equate gender care services with child abuse is itself abusive. It's the denial of gender care services which is the abuse.
And the chances are - also ironically - I know far, far, far more than you will ever do about the global child abuse network.
So I suggest, if you are capable of it, that you try and educate yourself, rather than blindly believing what you have been manipulated into believing (which goes back to the point of Caitlin's article - it was clearly aimed at people like you).
👏👏 Fantastic response and very informative comment too! Thank you Evelyn K. Brunswick, for explaining things (and putting into words) many of the same thoughts I have - you do it so well!
I wasn't replying to you!
Thank you for your reconciliatory reply, it's appreciated. Yes, you are correct that the issue has been weaponised. So in other words the bad guys have propagandists and agitators on both sides (as usual!). That's why we shouldn't necessarily take sides, but examine the issue itself objectively and form an opinion that way. I am aware of the purely medical facts of the trans thing, so that part is easy. Once I've got that out of the way I can clearly see all this weaponisation, and it's the innocent trans people (especially children) who get caught in the middle and suffer accordingly.
One of the telling things is that transgender stuff was never an issue up until very recently, maybe ten years or so ago. If I recall correctly this coincides with when the WHO finally got around to declassifying the trans condition from a 'psychological' condition (which it isn't), and changed the name to 'gender incongruence', thus acknowledging that it's a brain development disorder, not some psychological 'choice' that can be either made by an individual, or which can be manipulated into an individual (in the same way that 'conversion therapy' for homosexuality doesn't work). Just as you can't convince someone they're, I don't know, a different colour or something. I suppose you could use some serious systematic trauma-based mind control to do it, but the sheer effort involved in that for no ROI makes it pointless.
And yes, you're right that there is a profit-driven (pharma/medical) industry which preys on young people, but it's not the trans thing - aside from anything else it's such a rare condition that the profits simply aren't there. Puberty blockers, for example, have been around for 60 years (and used for childhood gender incongruence for 40 or so I think), and are totally off-patent (like all the other treatments for trans people). So I think that profit-motive argument is a bit of misdirection. There are better avenues of profit for these bad guys (childhood vaccine schedules spring to mind, with the subsequent chronic illnesses etc.), but certainly generalised childhood stress and thus psychological issues would also be a source of revenue.
The obvious solution to that is to make healthcare publicly owned and not-for-profit. I don't know if you are aware but in my country of origin (Britain) successive governments have been doing their damnedest to privatise the NHS. And make people sicker at the same time. Go figure.
1/ It's ironic you bring transhumanism into it and then accuse me (and others) of being secret Zionists because the transhumanism-transgender conspiracy theory is one of those far-right anti-semitic tropes. And it's bullshit. Maybe it's because of the prefix 'trans' ? If so, and you genuinely believe it, then you're even dumber than you look.
2/ You people always bring this 'detransitioning' rubbish into it. The best you can do though is come up with a few anecdotes (same thing applies to the 'transwomen are a threat in bathrooms rubbish'). As soon as you are confronted with proper statistics you lose the argument. For example, there was a (British NHS) study of 3,000 transgender post-treatment people, of which only 16 expressed lack of total dissatisfaction (which is just dissatisfaction, not total regret, let alone detransition). That's 0.53%. So we're talking about a treatment pathway with a 99.47% success rate. Name me another treatment pathway with a 99.47% success rate?
See, that's what it comes down to - medical ethics. And you're on the wrong side. This relates to that awful Keira Bell, and her handlers, who pretty much succeeded in preventing thousands of children with a rare medical condition from having access to the life-saving treatment they needed. Many of them would've committed suicide, so Bell and the handlers (and you who support them) literally have blood on their hands, as well as child abuse.
One of the worst things about you people likewise is that you masquerade as 'being concerned about children's welfare' when it's actually the complete opposite.
And I'll repeat what I said - you are the very type of person to whom Caitlin's article was aimed. You weren't born a transphobic bigot, so where did you get it from? It was given to you. And you never questioned the veracity of the propaganda nor the motivations of the people doing that propaganda. You are the one who has been successfully conditioned into bigotry. Obviously you will never be able to admit that, because that would be humiliating for you.
Lumping trans people into a sex predator category is where your argument goes cold. Why the fuck do you care about them so much? Because you’re too fucking stupid to see past propaganda.
What’s irrational about it? Fucking bigot!
Genital mutilation is a religious and cultural "right" and has been practised on millions and millions of people over the last 5,000 years because a) God told them to and b) it shows that childhood is over and the individual is now an adult.
If you really want to play that game, tell the Jews that Circumcision is now prohibited.
Take your head out of your anus.
It should not be a religious or cultural right for anyone to alter the genitals of a minor, except if it is necessary to allow the child to urinate normally. Both FGM and circumcision of minors are reprehensible.
That is your opinion and many things (reprehensible or not) should or should not happen however in the real world, other's opinions also matter and quite honestly it is arrogant to believe that your opinion is more moral or right than another's.
“Opinions are like orgasms… mine matters most and I really don’t care if you have one.”
— Sylvia Plath
A person's human rights stop short of someone else's body. It cannot possibly be ethical to mutilate the genitals of a child for anything other than a life-saving medical reason.
Other cultures and beliefs exist, besides yours.
It cannot possibly be right to have an opinion that disagrees with 5,000 years of cultural practise and hundreds of millions of 'mutilations'.
When water is scarce, then circumcision is a means of reducing, removing the chance of infection in the prepuce. That is why hundreds of millions of Africans, Arabs, Jews and others do it.
50 years ago it was, like vaccination, the advice of the whole medical profession. It reduced the likelihood of HPV, so they said.
As far as female circumcision, the practise usually involves opening the hood and thereby improving the sensitivity of the clitoris.
However your opinion is so overwhelmingly important that those billion or more people should immediately change their religious and cultural traditions because it offends you.
Really?
"It cannot possibly be right to have an opinion that disagrees with 5,000 years of cultural practise and hundreds of millions of 'mutilations'." There are also thousands of years of things like slavery and forced marriage. Do you also endorse all those things?
The risk of infection of the prepuce is not increased when water is scarce. That is nonsense, and was thoroughly disproved in WW2. Intact soldiers in North Africa did not experience problems with their foreskins more often than circumcised soldiers. Circumcision was started in Judaism as a minimalist form of human sacrifice.
Circumcision does not reduce the likelihood of HPV.
Female circumcision does not improve the sensitivity of the clitoris.
Why do you just make up lies, PJ London?
Circumcision was largely abandoned in my country in the 1970s. It was led by the medical profession, and has not resulted in any increase of any penile problems.
Sexual mutilation of minors of either sex has no medical indications whatsoever. Religious and cultural traditions that violate the human rights of minors should absolutely be banned worldwide.
Wow, you are so deluded. Religious superstition and religious customs are IRRELEVANT TO THE ISSUE OF INJURY TO ANOTHER PERSON, ESPECIALLY A CHILD OR BABY!!!
It makes sex and childbirth horribly painful for the woman and obliterates any possible joy. It's an awful form of male control over women even though women carry it out and it is exceedingly painful. I imagine quite a few infections result.
Your opinion clearly counts for sh*T in this matter
Your opinion has been wrong in just about every manner. Your dipshit book you’ve been writing is common knowledge. You’re siding with the MAGA bigots, fucking dipshit!
Circumcision should be prohibited. It's category A child abuse. Remember they do it at 8 days old. It becomes an internalised trauma, which results, after indoctrination, of hatred of the other/strangers, as well as irrevocably destroying the mother-child bond. Explains a lot, psychologically.
No 'god' would ever demand such an evil, child-abusive practice. That's not a god, it's a demon pretending to be a god. By gaslighting his followers into doing one of the most evil things imaginable - abusing their own children - he is essentially succeeding in getting them to do anything evil. As we are seeing in Palestine.
".. It becomes an internalised trauma, which results, after indoctrination, of hatred of the other/strangers, as well as irrevocably destroying the mother-child bond. .."
What total bullshit!
You have no facts to support that ridiculous assertion.
"..No 'god' would ever demand such an evil, child-abusive practice .." Well he is the "God" that all Jewish and billions of Christians follow and have faith in, do you have several billion followers over centuries? No, I did not think so.
The Africans have the circumcision as a rite of manhood. No God, merely 20,000 years of tradition. Like Muslims, this rite is conducted between the ages of 13 and 16, so no the trauma does not have any effect on Mother-child relations.
Your feelings and opinions do not apply outside of your skull and yet you feel you have the right to judge and instruct others in how they should conduct their lives.
You have a serious mental issue and should seek help.
Yes. Any of us that offer opinions that disagree with yours are arrogant people--how DARE we express an opinion?! If we persist clearly we are in need of medical help. But be careful--you have come dangerously close to expressing an opinion yourself!
Not at all, you can express an opinion, as I do, but I do not feel that my opinion should form the basis for world behaviour.
It is the dictatorial mind set that believes that their opinion has some moral, ethical 'right' to be enforced on everyone else, regardless of their religion, culture or tradition that makes it a mental issue.
So you don't believe in universal human rights. Got it.
Actually, research shows that circumcision permanently lowers the pain threshold.
Furthermore, circumcision has been linked to significantly increased likelihood of the child becoming a rapist as an adult.
Your attack on Evelyn as having a "serious mental issue" is a disgusting ad hominem, or rather, ad mulierem, attack.
It seems highly likely that you are a circumcised man who is desperately defending his mutilated state, unable to cope with the reality that his parents chose to deprive him of tens of thousands of specialized erogenous nerve endings.
1) lowers etc. So what?
2) I doubt that it is Circumcision, the cultures that practise it are usually far more violent and misogynistic.
Anyone who wants to dictate what everyone else must do has a serious mental issue.
I am not circumcised so that blows your whole BS out of the water.
Have a nice day.
Have a nice day, child abuser.
I was wondering whether he was also a circumcision victim, gaslighted into defending it because he's not allowed to say his parents abused him. That's the pathology right there, and he's clearly been triggered somehow.
I know he denies it in his reply below, but I have my doubts...
1/ Stop projecting.
2/ African tribes don’t mutilate babies who can’t have anything explained to them and can’t consent. That’s why they wait until teenagerhood. So it’s not a trauma.
3/ Actually, there are facts to support these assertions - there are many psychology papers on the subject. I’m not going to link to any of them for you however because a/ you wouldn’t read them, because you’re not capable of changing your opinions, and b/ I very much doubt you’d understand the papers anyway. So no point, really.
4/ I don’t see what your point is about some demon pretending to be a god having so many followers. If anything, that simply proves just how powerful the coercive control has been. It’s infantilising. Mature human beings do not need to follow some authoritarian entity, god or demon. They don’t need ‘commandments’ or ‘diktats’ or to be told what to do, think, believe, feel etc. You clearly do, because you are incapable of psychological maturity. Mature people are innately good, and can tell the difference between right and wrong. The fact that you are attempting to defend lifelong mutilation of an innocent 8-days old baby, with all the accompanying trauma, adequately demonstrates your own inability to tell the difference. I seriously hope you don’t have children.
1) no because about 20% - 50% don't make it to puberty. It is a rite of passage to adulthood.
2) Are you insane, it is much more traumatic when you can see and understand what is happening and not have access to painkillers.
3) For every Psychologist that shares your view I can bring another who is totally opposed. it is the nature of today's society, in every sphere.
4) One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter, one man's demon is another man's god. The point about followers is that it has bearing on the weight of an opinion. "Mature people are innately good" you have no data to support that assertion and further you cannot define "good" except in your cultural environment. Killing is good if the government sanctions it. Theft is moral if it is in the form of taxes. Sex is bad unless you are 16 (in some states) 18 (in others) or 21 if you are insane.
5) I am not 'defending' anything except freedom. your viewpoint is not shared by millions not even in the western culture, so for you to make your opinion the basis of what others should or should not do is sheer hubris.
I hope that you do not have children, I encouraged mine to think for themselves and question everything. Which is why they are extremely successful and wealthy.
Yet you yourself refuse to question circumcision. Got it.
I am far too responsible to bring a child into a dystopian hell like this world. It would be cruel, abusive, and selfish. The only potential reason why I'd bring a child into this world would be to fully train it in all the skills and talents and understanding it needed to become a leader of the resistance. If that necessitated Monarch-style MPD programming then so be it.
Even so, given the number of children in the world without parents I would go down the adoption route, and make very sure that child knew it was loved.
If your children are 'extremely successful and wealthy' then I'm guessing they must be very well adapted to this society.
'Sincerely' there is zero "Hysteria" in any of my responses.
When people make assertions, such as ".. hysterical in your responses" or "... It becomes an internalised trauma, which results, after indoctrination, of hatred of the other/strangers, as well as irrevocably destroying the mother-child bond. .." it is arrogant and annoying.
I make clear when I am expressing an opinion and do not expect, much less demand, that others share that opinion.
"Billions of people have been wrong before" is true, but that offers no reason to suppose that they are wrong in this instance.
I find it amusing that maybe 1 in 10 responses actually address an issue and attempt a logical, fact based refutation.
The rest are just annoyed that their beliefs and ideas have no real basis that can be defended.
I am fully aware of that, but it has no bearing on the fact that Jewish tradition and beliefs are still held, or that millions of Muslims and Africans still practise it.
It is totally irrelevant.
A right to torture and injure? Are you for real? MGM should be illegal worldwide, just as FGM mostly is!
It may be a cultural/religious thing but it IS harmful to children and should be blocked. I refer to male neonatal circumcision, not FGM which is an atrocity that should be blocked everywhere. Males survive their infant circumcision with no evident harm done, but survivors of FGM are horribly mutilated.
Males don't survive their infant circumcision with no harm done. Their pain threshold is permanently altered. Their likelihood of growing up to be rapists is increased. Their risk of meatal stenosis is hugely increased; 37% of men who have been circumcised develop some degree of meatal stenosis. Their risk of erectile dysfunction by the time they reach their forties is also very significantly increased.
This is ridiculous!
No it's not - there are a lot of academic research papers on the harms, especially psychological, of neonatal MGM. Don't rely on me to give you links though - look it up yourself. It'll be more worthwhile that way.
Again, some male circumcisions are 'botched' and cause scarring and problems for life. Some Female circumcisions are botched and cause harm, as do many plastic surgeries and tattooing.
However, the fact is that normal female operation has no more issues than the male operation. It is western/missionary faux 'outrage' that has caused this to be an issue not facts. Each year 100s of African youths die undergoing their circumcision rites, but you don't hear any western/UN hysterics about that.
Just because someone and the vicar do not like something does not mean that it is wrong.
"normal" FGM is very different from what you say, unless we have been lied to. What I have read is that it is done to girls around 6 to 10 years old, with a piece of broken glass, and the object is to entirely remove the clitoris lest lust cause the girl to stray from her future husband--that it often interferes with menstruation and possibly sex. That the same societies also have husbands having their wives ' vaginas stitched to keep them tight, which makes sex painful for the woman but who cares about the woman?
You have been lied to.
First stop and think, even if the clitoris was removed (which it is not) how could this interfere with menstruation?
Given the position it would not even 'interfere' with sex.
The cultural prohibition on adultery and the consequences of being caught will stop any thought of "straying".
Of course millions of western women would not dream of vaginoplasty or labiaplasty which is why hundreds of clinics world wide offer it, usually with the man having to pay for it, but who cares about the man?
The general operation is to release the skin between the clitoral hood and the external cover. Thus increasing the area of the clitoris and increasing the pleasure. But then these people are savages so we are told.
N African women look forward to the 'rite' as Jewish girls do to their Bat-mitzvah. Incidentally Christian, Jewish, Muslim and Pagan women in N Africa undergo the ritual as it is cultural and not religious. Some Muslim women in Asia also have this done at about the same time the boys are circumcised.
The clitoral hood is not attached to any "external cover" in any normal adult woman. You clearly know nothing about normal female genitalia.
so you are cool with hundreds of African youths dying due to pointless mutilation? Wow!
I am cool with people being allowed to make their own decisions.
Their rituals are not pointless.
Your ignorance and arrogance is worthy of "Wow".
A guy on mushrooms said God told them to maybe. A guy with a sick, sick mind much like yours except about 4000 years ago.
The genital mutilation industry????
There is a video, recorded at a medical conference, in which a female physician speaking to a large audience of physicians is singing the praises of trans surgery because it is a cash cow due to the need for multiple follow up surgeries. I saw the video and was appalled at the forthright admission. Unfortunately, I don't have a link to the video.
It exists in the USA, where doctors make extra money by pushing circumcision of neonates.
Males, not females, I assume. If your healthcare wasn't a business, perhaps medics would be less quick to remove body parts that may become infected and get them sued later ....,
I don't know why you imagine I am in the USA.
Foreskins very, very rarely get infected. Fingers and toes probably get infected far more often, but US doctors don't remove them.
Infected foreskin happened to my brother and a former boyfriend, both as children.
The pharmaceutical industry, state media and the medical establishment are responsible for the problem you’re referring to. Not trans people.
If you don’t want a trans kid, don’t have one.
Neither you nor the child have any choice in whether they are trans or not. It's a medical condition characterised by a disorder of brain development. Same as sexuality. You don't get to choose whether you are hetero, L, B, G, or whatever.
Bigotry often stems from ignorance. Innocent ignorance I can possibly forgive. Wilful ignorance, absolutely not.
Evelyn, I know that. That's why I dismissed him with a one-off. You will not convince these people with science. It's a waste of time.
Listen, we are allowed to argue publicly about this issue. We are NOT allowed to argue about Israel.
This issue is EXACTLY what Caitlin is talking about. This is a manufactured distraction. Of course real people are going to get hurt, but both parties feel trans people are useful, in the same way Roe was. Or 'Super Predators' were during the drug war. Or 'Welfare Queens' were during the Reagan era. You manufacture fear of an other, and 'the adults' laugh their asses alll the way to the bank.
I can promise our leaders do not actually give a fuck about this except as it serves as a wedge.
Sorry - I must've misread. Or replied to the wrong person.
And I agree with you, completely.
I'm not sure but I think it was meant ironically? Which can sometimes be misinterpreted - I should know - get misinterpreted on X all the time!
Anyway - now let's blame Boomers (and Bitterns why not?)
You do realise you are making the exact same argument that anti-abortionists made for overturning reproductive rights? “You need to sit down and speak to the young women who regretted their abortion.” - Yes, some women regretted it. So, my rights are stripped from me? Because you love women? Get outta here.
How do you feel about the war in Ukraine, the slashing of the social safety net, the rise of global totalitarianism? See, that’s a REAL issue.
You’re such a propagandist, it’s fucking ridiculous. The fact people are even talking to you about this non-issue, shows just how stupid people are. Villainizing trans people is part of the fascist game plan. People trying to incite hate towards anyone but the true evil.
They got their orders from their "Lord and Savior" Trump and his minions to hate, demonize, and dehumanize transgender people, who happen to be Red MAGA's target de jour.
Wrong on every account. You’re the only one preaching the narrative of the mass media. Indoctrinated fool!
Here's a video you might find interesting that might increase your awareness -> Veronica Drantz: The Gender Binary & LGBTI People - Myth and Medical Malpractice (https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=RgMiyp5bwrg)
You’re a fucking dimwit!
It’s how I talk. Again, just because it goes against your narrative doesn’t mean it’s wrong. GODDAMN!!
You’re a weak coward, who punches down. I will show you who to be scared of, little bitch!