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JohnOnKaui's avatar

There ya go again, ignoring the evidence that is so clear a child could see it.

9/11 was, in no way, "blow back". It was an Israeli* inspired false flag. Even the MSM was full of stories of how easy it was for the perpetrators to slip through US security..

If that were the only instance, perhaps I'd give you the benefit of the doubt.

But then there are the Tsarnaev brothers of the Boston Marathon bombing.

And JFK and RFK assassinations.

It isn't some "guy-off-the-street" that does this

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Tom's avatar

Dude. The perp wrote an incredible 'manifesto' and shouted Free Palestine, Free Free Palestine when arrested. C'mon - Emerge from the rabbit hole.

https://www.nefariousrussians.com/p/cycles-of-violence

https://www.kenklippenstein.com/p/the-israel-embassy-shooter-manifesto

Not everything is a SCAD or false flag.

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denise ward's avatar

And how do you know that? Think they don't have to resources to make just about every publicly violent act done by their own hand? Israel cannot be trusted. On Oct 7, with Israels huge surveillance arsenal, they would have known there was going to be an insurgence. They are liars and looters and murderers. I'm talking about the regime not the people. But many of their people love all the killing too.

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Denis Hillman's avatar

You're correct Denise. xoxo

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Tom's avatar

Israel did not fucking do this, denise. Wake the fuck up.

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denise ward's avatar

Well just your saying it doesn't make it so. Israel is psychopathic and sadistic. If it were a person, I'd have nothing to do with them. Why do people suck up to psychopaths? It only makes them bolder.

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Gordon Groves's avatar

easy with the modifiers there, cowboy

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Capt. Roy Harkness's avatar

"Not everything is a SCAD or false flag"? True, but Tom? So many things are. So what "he" wrote a manifesto. Those things are easy enough for forge. So what he shouted "Free Palestine". Have you read or watched "The Manchurian Candidate"? In the past 10 years alone since my home was stolen from me (foolishly purchased on native land) I have experienced corruption and criminality – and manipulation – on the part of all our "leaders", that even though it happened to me? I'm still stunned with incredulity!

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Chang Chokaski's avatar

>>"9/11 was, in no way, "blow back". It was an Israeli* inspired false flag."

HaHa - did you not read my comment elsewhere on this article that "Substack is FULL of conspiracy theorists and unfortunately so is Caitlin's substack"?

I'm not going to argue conspiracy theories with Conspiracy Theorists - there is a psychology behind it. Conspiracy theorists NEED to believe in such theories to help them make sense of a senseless world. This NEED to believe in such theories is so strong that it becomes a part of their core - regardless of the evidence, facts, whatever.

You are welcome to waste your life chasing down conspiracy theories - they seem to help you make sense of the world and keep you sane - so go for it - stay emotionally healthy - use whatever coping mechanism works. I prefer reality (no matter how uncomfortable it may be for me). The world doesn't need to 'have to' make sense to me - I am ok with the randomness, the chaosness, and all the coincidences in the world - everything doesn't need to have a reason or an explanation - everything doesn't need to have a solution or an answer. I'm comfortable with unknowns and uncertainty.

Most conspiracy theorists are uncomfortable with randomness, lack of causality, lack of coherence, lack of patterns, and lack of definite answers and explanations that are all too common in a universe with more questions than answers.

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JohnOnKaui's avatar

Go ahead, play The Walter Cronkite role in promoting the conclusions of the Warren commission.

Interject your snob appeal about how stupid I am because I need to make sense of "a senseless world".

Fuk-an-A I want it to make sense and I have to question why you don't.

Talk about false-flags, here you are right in front of us providing us with excuses to turn away from the obvious that is right before us.

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Chang Chokaski's avatar

>>"Interject your snob appeal about how stupid"

Believing in conspiracy theories has NOTHING (or very little) to do with one's intelligence. But you would know that if you were well versed on the subject.

Dude, believe whatever makes you comfortable. Why does it matter to you what I believe or what I think?

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JohnOnKaui's avatar

Right, you are "well-versed" you have a degree in "conspiracy theories".

Use that condescending tone again and I will damn you to eternity. You aren't necessarily the brightest bulb in the room.

You're telling us (although subtly) to "Shut up and go away".

Well, I AIN'T GOIN' AWAY.

I don't care what you think or believe, but I do care that you've sold your soul to promote chaos and confusion about a subject that is clear as day.

You are indirectly excusing and providing cover for the slaughter of the Palestinians by insisting that only a (probably deranged) "lone wolf" would ever take action against genocide.

No one here wants to have that label attached to them.

You are an excellent propagandist. You know how to subtly suggest that "Black is really white" and "War is really Peace."

Go back to the advertising agency you came from.

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Chang Chokaski's avatar

Sheesh - now you are being stupid with your comment here...

Believe whatever you want, believe whatever makes you happy. Believe you have all the answers.

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JohnOnKaui's avatar

More of the same diminution of Israeli crimes.

"Believe whatever you want" -- there are no moral absolutes in your world. "Israel" believes genocide is God's will.

Take a stand.

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Peter Sawchuk's avatar

The most profound of statements. "Believe you have all the answers." Anyone who actually thinks they have all the answers is only deluding themselves. Maybe it's a false flag. Maybe it's the start of a world uprising of people who are finally pissed off enough at what is going on to actually do something. Only time will tell.

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Gordon Groves's avatar

Now I'm getting tinnitus from your screams

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Gordon Groves's avatar

Here you are again, with your megaphone

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Capt. Roy Harkness's avatar

"There is no expedient to which a man will not resort to avoid the labor of thinking."

– Joshua Reynolds

"Most people would sooner die than think. In fact, they do."

– Betrand Russell

The issue Chang, is not my belief (amply demonstrated) that the very rich and powerful are actively working to maintain their position to the rest of humanity's detriment. The issue is your automatic flat rejection – in totality – of the thesis.

I give up.

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Chang Chokaski's avatar

>>"The issue is your automatic flat rejection"

The way I have expressed myself (i.e. my automatic flat rejection) is not automatic (though it seems that way). I don't intend to bore people here (or elsewhere) with the nitty-gritty details that goes into thinking before I arrive at conclusions.

Hence, people don't get to see all the steps (and effort) that my mind makes in critically thinking about the situation - they only see the end result - which is the conclusion. Hence the impression that my response is "automatic".

Critical thinking is NEVER automatic - it is deliberative, cognitively demanding, and energy draining (for the specifics of this I refer you to Daniel Kahneman's book - Thinking Fast and Slow). But people only ever get to observe the end results (i.e. the conclusions) of the though process - hence the appearance of "automatic or haphazard or incomplete" thinking.

If I were to explain all the details of WHY the probabilites are exceedingly low (low enough to discard the false-flag hypothesis) for this event to be a 'FALSE FLAG' event, it would take several pages - and NO ONE is interested in that (or has the patience or time for it). No one here is interested in reading detailed, researched, analysis - of this or anything else. That is ONE of the problems/limitations of online discussion arenas/spaces - it doesn't give one the depth needed to really examine discourses in adequate detail.

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Capt. Roy Harkness's avatar

That's all well and good and I'm glad your critical faculties are functioning. Just remember with any and all factoids:

1. Who is telling you this? and

2. Why are they telling you?

The old Roman adage applies: "Cui bono?"

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Chang Chokaski's avatar

You're assuming that my critical thinking is that shallow that I have not considered these (and many other) points?

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JennyStokes's avatar

YOU do NOT assume Chang!

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Capt. Roy Harkness's avatar

I'm words on your monitor, Chang. You do you, and don't worry about me and what I say too much.

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denise ward's avatar

Oh you don't think conspiracies happen? You're giving us a profile of yourself.

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Capt. Roy Harkness's avatar

"Rich and powerful people don't get together and make plans! You're a kook! You're a 'Conspiracy Buff'"

– George Carlin

Sorry Chang, but for me, especially 9/11? Anyone who uses the term "Conspiracy Theory" in any context, for me is immediately suspect. "Conspiracy Theory" was a notion created by the CIA in the wake of the Warren Commission's grotesque conclusions regarding the first Kennedy Assassination. I'm aware of Cass Sunstein's 2008 paper on "Conspiracy Theory"; I was unable to read it, it was so biased and contemptuous of the mere possibility. You might do well to read "Conspiracy Theory in America by Lance deHaven-Smith" and the more recent "180 Degrees: Unlearn the Lies You've Been Taught to Believe" by Feargus O'Connor Greenwood. The creatures running our shared shitshow treat "reality" like a game of chess, they're always planning 4-5 moves ahead. The one thing in our favor? They're not actually all that clever... 🤔🙄

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Chang Chokaski's avatar

Oh boy! Another conspiracy theorist? Why am I not surprised?

The CIA coining "conspiracy theory" has alread been discussed (and debunked) here -> https://www.caitlinjohnst.one/p/thoughts-on-the-israeli-embassy-staff/comment/119448193

If you're serious (at an intellectual level) about understanding conspiracy theories, conspiracy culture, conspiracy psychology, and more - then I suggest you take at a list of some of the books I mentioned here ->https://www.caitlinjohnst.one/p/thoughts-on-the-israeli-embassy-staff/comment/119460442

BTW, it takes knowledge, critical thinking skills, and effort to DISTINGUISH the FALSE conspiracies from the TRUE conspiracies (yes, there are a few that are true ->https://www.caitlinjohnst.one/p/thoughts-on-the-israeli-embassy-staff/comment/119460442).

There are also different TYPES of conspiracy theories. Here is an interesting look at some of the different types/categories -> [https://conspiracychart.com]

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Peter Sawchuk's avatar

In retrospect the silence in this morning's news could indicate that they (Israel) are now scared. False flag or not it will probably mark the beginning of a string of attacks on Israeli institutions. As ye sow so shall ye reap. I suspect that the US could be next for these attacks.

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Breakup Google's avatar

This happened right after a few European and British politicians turned on them. Its always the sympathy play with them, they get none from me. Any Zionist or their servants are fair game in my book, and that includes this "happy" fucking couple.

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Tom's avatar
May 23Edited

Now you have totally lost me. You use "conspiracy theorists" and "conspiracy theory" exactly how the CIA initially intended its use when the term was coined after JFK. I even suspect you now as some sort of controlled opposition after previously agreeing with many of your comments.

To summarize: No, this murder was not part of a Mossad conspiracy or false flag, but 9/11 almost assuredly was. What do you know about the Munich Olympics, BTW? Do you think "Black September" was a Palestinian operation? If so, I can recommend some reading materials.

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Chang Chokaski's avatar

I don't mean to use Conspircy Theorists in a pejorative way. Conspiracy Theorists are usually quite intelligent people - they take great effort at seeking out patterns and attempting to connect-the-dots.

Also, there are several conspiracy theories that ARE true.

>>" I even suspect you now as some sort of controlled opposition after previously agreeing with many of your comments."

That is more conspiratorial thinking on your part.

Like I to said to someone else, I'm not going to argue individual conspiracy theoies with you. It is ALWAYS a time-waster and counter-productive.

I could recommend many books for you to read (on conspiracy theories and conspiratorial thinking and WHY people believe conspiracies), but I am quite confident that you will not read them. If you decide to change your mind, let me know.

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JohnOnKaui's avatar

My you are "slick"

Taking your own words and coating them with milk chocolate so we will eat the medicine you've prescribed.

Name a couple of those "Many Books" so we can rip into the banal falsity they are selling.

Stop making excuses for Israeli genocide.

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Breakup Google's avatar

Exactly. His "arguments" slither back and forth to try and get each person to agree with him in some way per reply thread. He a glowie.

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Chang Chokaski's avatar

If you equate ANYTHING I've said with support of Israelis or Zionists or the such, then you've got BIGGER critical thinking problems and logic issues to deal with than conspiracy theories.

Why does it matter to you so much what I think about Conspiracy Theories and Conspiracy Theorists and conspiracism? I'm not stopping you from believing in them.

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JennyStokes's avatar

What matters to me MR CHANG CHOKASKI is this: Why do you not have your own substack?

Why are you on Caitlin's substack ALL the time?

Why don't you take your opinions somewhere else?

Sick and tired of you with your pompous rhetoric. Some of us are trying to find our way through a minefield and YOUR opinions are boring.

I am an artist and I like being an artist. I judge people from what I see. NOT listening to ridiculous rhetoric...you would love to have us the same as you. No thank you.

You are treating us like children so fuck off.

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JohnOnKaui's avatar

If you don't want to be seen as a genocide supporter then stop debating conspiracy theories that are orthogonal to the genocide.

Simple.

So Simple that you can't see it because you're so wrapped up in applying "conspiracy theory" models to this "clear as day" tragedy.

Snowden warned us (4 years ago) against Apophenia. I think of it as getting so engrossed in details that you can't see what it is you're looking at. (forest for the trees).

This debate about false flag or no false flag is a diversion into trivialities that camouflage the obvious crime. The very fact that you continue "down this rabbit hole" transforms into de facto support for Israel.

It is the same ridiculous navel examination that requires so many to condemn Russia's "illegal, unprovoked invasion" of Ukraine. Garland Nixon does a pretty good job of 'cutting through the Bullshit'.

It matters to me because your insistence on pursuing this minutiae serves to divert attention from the evil endemic to Israel. You are so deep into the triviality of the debate you can't back out and see the real crime, let alone how to stop the slaughter.

30 books on conspiracy theories yet you fail to understand what they are telling you.

There's no polite way of saying this... "Pull your head out of your ass."

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Chang Chokaski's avatar

Here is a list of 30 books to get you started. It should keep you busy for quite a while...

(1) Conspiracies of Conspiracies: How Delusions Have Overrun America (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/41591178)

(2) The Believing Brain: From Ghosts and Gods to Politics and Conspiracies---How We Construct Beliefs and Reinforce Them as Truths (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/11438651)

(3) Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories in the Age of Trump (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/40765231)

(4) Conspiracy Theories and the People Who Believe Them (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/40404817)

(5) Conspiracy Theories: A Primer (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/121967479)

(6) Conspiracy: A History of Boll*cks Theories, and How Not to Fall for Them (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/61404604)

(7) Conspiracy: Why the Rational Believe the Irrational (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/61857147)

(8) Conspirituality: How New Age Conspiracy Theories Became a Health Threat (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/62874269)

(9) Counter-Knowledge: How We Surrendered to Conspiracy Theories, Quack Medicine, Bogus Science and Fake History (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3721140)

(10) Debunked: Separate the Rational from the Irrational in Influential Conspiracy Theories (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/60019327)

(11) Debunking 9/11 Myths: Why Conspiracy Theories Can't Stand Up to the Facts (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/12321929)

(12) Debunking Conspiracy Theories (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/41545720)

(13) Denying Science: Conspiracy Theories, Media Distortions, and the War Against Reality (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/12410995)

(14) Empire of Conspiracy: The Culture of Paranoia in Postwar America (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/536292)

(15) Enemies Within: The Culture of Conspiracy in Modern America (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/313837)

(16) Escaping the Rabbit Hole: How to Debunk Conspiracy Theories Using Facts, Logic, and Respect (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/69776129)

(17) Hope and Fear: Modern Myths, Conspiracy Theories and Pseudo History (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/59095232)

(18) Impossible Knowledge: Conspiracy Theories, Power, and Truth (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/42524472-impossible-knowledge)

(19) Off the Edge: Flat Earthers, Conspiracy Culture, and Why People Will Believe Anything (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/56437694)

(20) Suspicious Minds: Why We Believe Conspiracy Theories (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/23848322)

(21) The Anatomy of Deception: Conspiracy Theories, Distrust, and Public Health in America (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/197812276)

(22) The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/995796)

(23) The Nature of Conspiracy Theories (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/53236264)

(24) The Psychology of Conspiracy Theories (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/38366098)

(25) The Social Psychology of Gullibility: Conspiracy Theories, Fake News and Irrational Beliefs (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/43151730)

(26) The United States of Paranoia: A Conspiracy Theory (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/17331306)

(27) They Knew: How a Culture of Conspiracy Keeps America Complacent (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/59808707)

(28) Voodoo Histories: The Role of the Conspiracy Theory in Shaping Modern History (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/7668651)

(29) Weaponizing Conspiracy Theories (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/208489516)

(30) Awful Archives: Conspiracy Theory, Rhetoric, and Acts of Evidence (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/52371630)

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JennyStokes's avatar

Oh thank you Maestro. Do you think we don't read books MR Chokaski. Fuck off.

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Gordon Groves's avatar

Okay, now I know you're a recruit in a boiler room in Bethesda. Yap yap yap....NSA

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Breakup Google's avatar

He is a glowie for sure. These fucking ops and AI, its time to go low tech and begin the conversations in non digital places, that way when we spot the op, we can block their comments the old fashioned way.

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blackbird's avatar

" did you not read my comment elsewhere on this article that "Substack is FULL of conspiracy theorists and unfortunately so is Caitlin's substack"? - HA HA !

https://vtforeignpolicy.com/2025/04/zionist-israel-still-suppresses-trump-release-of-jfk-9-11-and-jeffrey-epstein-files/

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Chang Chokaski's avatar

So you get DISTRACTED that easily by such narratives that appeal to your confirmation biases?

And you LIKE your OWN comments too? That is NOT a good look.

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martin's avatar

idk, maybe this is going a bit out of focus? (no offense).

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Chang Chokaski's avatar

Of course it's going out of focus - it always does - anytime 'conspiracy theorists' crawl out of the woodwork (which is often on Caitlin's substack).

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Gregory May's avatar

Cute conspiracy theory.

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Gordon Groves's avatar

Here you come again, tonsils flapping

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