Respectfully cannot agree with you. We don’t know enough.
And he could have been a pro Palestinian that was set up by Mossad…
Interesting that one of the people killed was a Christian, don’t you think?
Let’s see if they actually investigate this thoroughly.
We simply don’t know.
The best I can say is it’s 50-50 odds.
But there are a lot more Mossad operatives and operations then there are people in the world willing to do this. But there are probably a lot of desperate people in the world who could be coerced into doing such a thing: threats to family, psychological tactics, black mail, monetary reward…..Mossad do all of this.
So, I feel I’m being more then fair stating the odds at 50-50 as the probability seem much higher on the Mossad side, given notice, past behaviour.
Until now, the only Jews killed in anti-semitic attacks in America since the at in Gaza have been other Jews who were mistaken for Palestinians. Many Palestinians in the other hand have been attacked and shot by islamaphobes.
Just keep an open mind is all im saying, and wait to see what the independent journalists uncover
He could have been many things. The fact is none of us know. What you should be asking yourselves on each and every theory put forward is what if it's true? I'm not talking about one theory. I'm talking about all of them. Question them all critically. Do not be afraid to change your mind. Is this or that theory worthy or is it just a distraction. Keep your minds open especially to the fact that you could be wrong. If you think you've never been wrong you are a fool.
You don't need to agree with me. One needs to think critically. And one should keep an open mind - but not such an open mind that their brains fall out and they start believing in normal events as being false flags and conspiratorial events.
>>"Interesting that one of the people killed was a Christian, don’t you think?"
Irrelevant. This is extraneous info. This is how conspiracy theories work - EVERY insignificant detail is given paramount importance so as to 'connect all the dots' in some kind of 'grand plan', 'grand conspiracy'.
There is a very simple explanation for this. In fact, it is so simple that the simpleness of it causes people to not believe it - BLOWBACK!
People expect unusual explanations/reasons for rare events. People have a hard time accepting that even very rare events can occur for the most mundane and natural of reasons.
Hard logic to argue with. I'm out of here today. Too many people unwilling to think outside of their own little boxes. From a purely emotional state I think it could be highly likely that some people have had enough and are finally taking matters into their own hands. Peace to you Chiang. While I don't always agree with you, at least you are always rational.
I think in your judgement of those who are a truly keeping their minds open to other possibilities betrays your insinuation that you yourself are the model of rational and reasonable thinking.
To reiterate my point, let’s hold judgement until the people we know we can rely on investigate.
>>"...your insinuation that you yourself are the model of rational and reasonable thinking."
I'm far from any model of rational and reasonable thinking. I know that because I keep discoving flaws and areas of improvement in my own thinking. One can't expect to arrive at any kind of truth or claim to be intellectually honest if they are ALSO not open to being wrong.
If enough verifiable evidence comes along that proves it is a FALSE FLAG - then I will be quite happy to be proven wrong, accept it, and hopefully learn from it for future scenarios.
I tend to think in terms of probabilities (especially bayesian probabilities - which takes into consideration prior probabilities, false positives and false negatives). To me, EVERYTHING is about probabilities - nothing is 100% black or 100% white - I detest binary thinking and prefer to get dirty with nuanced thinking. I'm also a non-comformist.
>>"To reiterate my point, let’s hold judgement until the people we know we can rely on investigate."
Sure - always a good idea - and that is a good attitude to have.
I state my opinions (after critically thinking with whatever information I have at that moment in time) and arrive at a 'conclusive thought/analysis/summary conclusion'. I don't expect people to hold the same opinions that I have. But what I find disconcerting - especially with conspiracy theorists - is that they EXPECT and NEED people to believe in THEIR theories.
What bothers me most is not that people hold different opinions - what bothers me is the LACK of sound logic and LACK of adequate critical thinking skills that goes into arriving at explanations of such theories - i.e. the thought process and the methodologies used. I have been guilty of the same 'lack of critical thinking' often in my past life. But ever since Covid started, I really worked hard on my logic/statistics & probability/media literacy/critical thinking skills so as to be able to make higher quality decisions and evaluations. And, IT IS A PROCESS - it is forever evolving - there is no end to how little we humans really know about us, the world, and the universe.
Anyways, I landed up saying way more than I wanted to.
A question for you. Disregarding this shooting do you believe Mossad would carry out murder of people sympathetic to Israel to further Israel’s agenda?
>>"do you believe Mossad would carry out murder of people sympathetic to Israel to further Israel’s agenda?"
Of course - 100%. Israel (and Mossad) is capable of things a thousand times worse that the 'murder of people sympathetic to Israel to further its agenda' - as evidenced by the enfolding genocide. Israel is capable of unimaginable EVIL.
Here is a book that gives some examples of what Israel/Mossad/etc. are capable of ->"Rise and Kill First: The Secret History of Israel's Targeted Assassinations" by Ronen Berman (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/33598223-rise-and-kill-first) -> details many assassinations that Israel has carried out for the U.S. Empire.
But 'being capable of something' is not a strong enough argument for people to assign the kind of probabilities they do to such events and jump to conclusions.
One difference between conspiracists and 'intellectually honest skeptics' is the quality of critical thinking skills and evidence-based reasoning - which is very difficult to find in the general public (America or otherwise).
Yes, I was surprised that a German Christian was working in an Israeli embassy at all then I remembered that there are Christian zionists(which to me is incompatible).
There's much more to this story, apart from the man being so willing to shout that he was doing it for Palestine and Gaza. Why hand them your conviction so soon, you're supposed to make them work for it.
Respectfully cannot agree with you. We don’t know enough.
And he could have been a pro Palestinian that was set up by Mossad…
Interesting that one of the people killed was a Christian, don’t you think?
Let’s see if they actually investigate this thoroughly.
We simply don’t know.
The best I can say is it’s 50-50 odds.
But there are a lot more Mossad operatives and operations then there are people in the world willing to do this. But there are probably a lot of desperate people in the world who could be coerced into doing such a thing: threats to family, psychological tactics, black mail, monetary reward…..Mossad do all of this.
So, I feel I’m being more then fair stating the odds at 50-50 as the probability seem much higher on the Mossad side, given notice, past behaviour.
Until now, the only Jews killed in anti-semitic attacks in America since the at in Gaza have been other Jews who were mistaken for Palestinians. Many Palestinians in the other hand have been attacked and shot by islamaphobes.
Just keep an open mind is all im saying, and wait to see what the independent journalists uncover
He could have been many things. The fact is none of us know. What you should be asking yourselves on each and every theory put forward is what if it's true? I'm not talking about one theory. I'm talking about all of them. Question them all critically. Do not be afraid to change your mind. Is this or that theory worthy or is it just a distraction. Keep your minds open especially to the fact that you could be wrong. If you think you've never been wrong you are a fool.
You don't need to agree with me. One needs to think critically. And one should keep an open mind - but not such an open mind that their brains fall out and they start believing in normal events as being false flags and conspiratorial events.
>>"Interesting that one of the people killed was a Christian, don’t you think?"
Irrelevant. This is extraneous info. This is how conspiracy theories work - EVERY insignificant detail is given paramount importance so as to 'connect all the dots' in some kind of 'grand plan', 'grand conspiracy'.
There is a very simple explanation for this. In fact, it is so simple that the simpleness of it causes people to not believe it - BLOWBACK!
People expect unusual explanations/reasons for rare events. People have a hard time accepting that even very rare events can occur for the most mundane and natural of reasons.
You don't say anything original do you?
Any more of this trolling and I'm inclined to block you.
Hard logic to argue with. I'm out of here today. Too many people unwilling to think outside of their own little boxes. From a purely emotional state I think it could be highly likely that some people have had enough and are finally taking matters into their own hands. Peace to you Chiang. While I don't always agree with you, at least you are always rational.
I think in your judgement of those who are a truly keeping their minds open to other possibilities betrays your insinuation that you yourself are the model of rational and reasonable thinking.
To reiterate my point, let’s hold judgement until the people we know we can rely on investigate.
I appreciate your comment.
>>"...your insinuation that you yourself are the model of rational and reasonable thinking."
I'm far from any model of rational and reasonable thinking. I know that because I keep discoving flaws and areas of improvement in my own thinking. One can't expect to arrive at any kind of truth or claim to be intellectually honest if they are ALSO not open to being wrong.
If enough verifiable evidence comes along that proves it is a FALSE FLAG - then I will be quite happy to be proven wrong, accept it, and hopefully learn from it for future scenarios.
I tend to think in terms of probabilities (especially bayesian probabilities - which takes into consideration prior probabilities, false positives and false negatives). To me, EVERYTHING is about probabilities - nothing is 100% black or 100% white - I detest binary thinking and prefer to get dirty with nuanced thinking. I'm also a non-comformist.
>>"To reiterate my point, let’s hold judgement until the people we know we can rely on investigate."
Sure - always a good idea - and that is a good attitude to have.
I state my opinions (after critically thinking with whatever information I have at that moment in time) and arrive at a 'conclusive thought/analysis/summary conclusion'. I don't expect people to hold the same opinions that I have. But what I find disconcerting - especially with conspiracy theorists - is that they EXPECT and NEED people to believe in THEIR theories.
What bothers me most is not that people hold different opinions - what bothers me is the LACK of sound logic and LACK of adequate critical thinking skills that goes into arriving at explanations of such theories - i.e. the thought process and the methodologies used. I have been guilty of the same 'lack of critical thinking' often in my past life. But ever since Covid started, I really worked hard on my logic/statistics & probability/media literacy/critical thinking skills so as to be able to make higher quality decisions and evaluations. And, IT IS A PROCESS - it is forever evolving - there is no end to how little we humans really know about us, the world, and the universe.
Anyways, I landed up saying way more than I wanted to.
A question for you. Disregarding this shooting do you believe Mossad would carry out murder of people sympathetic to Israel to further Israel’s agenda?
>>"do you believe Mossad would carry out murder of people sympathetic to Israel to further Israel’s agenda?"
Of course - 100%. Israel (and Mossad) is capable of things a thousand times worse that the 'murder of people sympathetic to Israel to further its agenda' - as evidenced by the enfolding genocide. Israel is capable of unimaginable EVIL.
Here is a book that gives some examples of what Israel/Mossad/etc. are capable of ->"Rise and Kill First: The Secret History of Israel's Targeted Assassinations" by Ronen Berman (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/33598223-rise-and-kill-first) -> details many assassinations that Israel has carried out for the U.S. Empire.
But 'being capable of something' is not a strong enough argument for people to assign the kind of probabilities they do to such events and jump to conclusions.
One difference between conspiracists and 'intellectually honest skeptics' is the quality of critical thinking skills and evidence-based reasoning - which is very difficult to find in the general public (America or otherwise).
We completely agree. And thank you for the links.
Yes, I was surprised that a German Christian was working in an Israeli embassy at all then I remembered that there are Christian zionists(which to me is incompatible).
There's much more to this story, apart from the man being so willing to shout that he was doing it for Palestine and Gaza. Why hand them your conviction so soon, you're supposed to make them work for it.