There is no "middle ground" with Nazis, Zionists, and other pathological ideologies and their psychopathic leaders. The liberals preach this "middle ground" stuff all the time and it has always led to a brutal, authoritarian take-over. Mostly the liberals are fairly well-off and don't want their comfort disturbed and have the mistaken believe that the psychopaths will leave them alone if they apologize on their behalf.
What happened is, more than likely, a false flag event meant to justify a leap forward for fascism. If it was a real leftist intervention, as Caitlin said, no tears here, I'll reserve them for the truly innocent people of Gaza.
You have no clue what it was Ron - Zero. And personally I’m sick of labels. A man was murdered. I’ve lived in many countries and know people from all walks of life, what leads to authortarian takeovers is ignorance - that is why they go after universities, Lawyers, Doctors et Quit generalizing about other people and maybe start trying to get to know them - even the ones you disagree with.
I don't know what it was, that's why I said "more than likely". You may be sick of labels and if that's a comfort to your liberal proclivities, all well for you. But what do you call the person, the nation, the ideology that comes to shred or starve your child. What do you call the person who says elementary school children are necessary sacrifices to protect the "God given" right to bear arms, when sick teenager comes to your child's school? What do you call someone who encourages people to take up arms against your transgender child? If you won't "label" them, how do you deal with them?
good point - on a bad day i would definitely call him a monster. And I’m definitely a liberal but not the kind you think. I would just ask that in the wake of a man being murdered, a man who was extreme in his point of view. Maybe we should soften just a little and remember that Charlie Kirke was ignorant, he dropped out of college, he had an extreme point of view which he believed in. He could have changed and imagine his energy if it got behind something good. There is always a chance for redemption - even in the monsters. He has children.
He wasn't just "extreme in his point of view". He was promoting violence, disguised as debate, against anyone who wasn't a white Christian. I don't know that all psychopaths can be redeemed, but had Charlie Kirk shown some contrition for his hateful, hate-filled words, had he truly listened to those arguing the other side rather than just putting them down (note his non-answers to the last couple of questions put to him), then I might think he was on the road to redemption. He did none of that and right up to the unexpected end, he was promoting hate and violence against trans people.
For what it's worth, there are many psychopaths in charge that I don't think are capable of redemption, based on their histories. For example: Epstein, Trump, Netanyahu, Starmer, Macron, Carney, Biden, just to name a few from the "civilized" west.
so what are you saying Ron - shoot them all. Are you judge and jury? You have all the answers……hate begets hate. As Angela Davis said, when we choose violence (no matter who is choosing it) we are inevitably headed in the wrong direction. I hope you have a good day.
I'm not saying shoot them all, but I will reserve my sympathy for those who are truly victims. I also won't condemn those who feel so angry, and frustrated that they are driven to killing the "monsters". The establishment kills people all the time, including the liberal establishment, through induced and enforced poverty, deprivation, oppression right here in our own country (Canada in my case), and even that doesn't compare to the killing they do through complicity, in non-white countries like Palestine.
Unfortunately, violence does begat violence but that trope is only totted out when it's the left that uses violence. I didn't hear any liberals blaming Israel for 100 years of violence as the cause of Palestine resistance breaking out on October 7, 2023, but they were quick to say Palestinian violence was not the answer.
Ideally, we could work our way through differences by debate, but that's not how the extremist works. In the west, for a couple of hundred years we've had a political system which we've called "liberal democracy" (it has been neither) where differences were debated and "settled" though "free elections" (again, not true) but in the current world order, the oligarchs are not happy with even that. Thus, we see a genocide in Palestine, labelling as terrorist and organization that opposes genocide in the UK, and, well, the USA.
If the left (or liberals) eschew violence all together, they will lose. Many, many millions of people, including children, have died because of that. Many millions more are on the verge of dying.
I have often thought about whether I could kill someone and my inclination is that I could not, even the most heinous monster. But when I think about that monster doing something to my late wife, I know I could kill for that. Beyond that, I'm lucky enough to have never been in that position and old enough that I probably never will be. But I'm not going to judge those who do kill monsters.
There is no "middle ground" with Nazis, Zionists, and other pathological ideologies and their psychopathic leaders. The liberals preach this "middle ground" stuff all the time and it has always led to a brutal, authoritarian take-over. Mostly the liberals are fairly well-off and don't want their comfort disturbed and have the mistaken believe that the psychopaths will leave them alone if they apologize on their behalf.
What happened is, more than likely, a false flag event meant to justify a leap forward for fascism. If it was a real leftist intervention, as Caitlin said, no tears here, I'll reserve them for the truly innocent people of Gaza.
You have no clue what it was Ron - Zero. And personally I’m sick of labels. A man was murdered. I’ve lived in many countries and know people from all walks of life, what leads to authortarian takeovers is ignorance - that is why they go after universities, Lawyers, Doctors et Quit generalizing about other people and maybe start trying to get to know them - even the ones you disagree with.
I don't know what it was, that's why I said "more than likely". You may be sick of labels and if that's a comfort to your liberal proclivities, all well for you. But what do you call the person, the nation, the ideology that comes to shred or starve your child. What do you call the person who says elementary school children are necessary sacrifices to protect the "God given" right to bear arms, when sick teenager comes to your child's school? What do you call someone who encourages people to take up arms against your transgender child? If you won't "label" them, how do you deal with them?
good point - on a bad day i would definitely call him a monster. And I’m definitely a liberal but not the kind you think. I would just ask that in the wake of a man being murdered, a man who was extreme in his point of view. Maybe we should soften just a little and remember that Charlie Kirke was ignorant, he dropped out of college, he had an extreme point of view which he believed in. He could have changed and imagine his energy if it got behind something good. There is always a chance for redemption - even in the monsters. He has children.
He wasn't just "extreme in his point of view". He was promoting violence, disguised as debate, against anyone who wasn't a white Christian. I don't know that all psychopaths can be redeemed, but had Charlie Kirk shown some contrition for his hateful, hate-filled words, had he truly listened to those arguing the other side rather than just putting them down (note his non-answers to the last couple of questions put to him), then I might think he was on the road to redemption. He did none of that and right up to the unexpected end, he was promoting hate and violence against trans people.
For what it's worth, there are many psychopaths in charge that I don't think are capable of redemption, based on their histories. For example: Epstein, Trump, Netanyahu, Starmer, Macron, Carney, Biden, just to name a few from the "civilized" west.
so what are you saying Ron - shoot them all. Are you judge and jury? You have all the answers……hate begets hate. As Angela Davis said, when we choose violence (no matter who is choosing it) we are inevitably headed in the wrong direction. I hope you have a good day.
I'm not saying shoot them all, but I will reserve my sympathy for those who are truly victims. I also won't condemn those who feel so angry, and frustrated that they are driven to killing the "monsters". The establishment kills people all the time, including the liberal establishment, through induced and enforced poverty, deprivation, oppression right here in our own country (Canada in my case), and even that doesn't compare to the killing they do through complicity, in non-white countries like Palestine.
Unfortunately, violence does begat violence but that trope is only totted out when it's the left that uses violence. I didn't hear any liberals blaming Israel for 100 years of violence as the cause of Palestine resistance breaking out on October 7, 2023, but they were quick to say Palestinian violence was not the answer.
Ideally, we could work our way through differences by debate, but that's not how the extremist works. In the west, for a couple of hundred years we've had a political system which we've called "liberal democracy" (it has been neither) where differences were debated and "settled" though "free elections" (again, not true) but in the current world order, the oligarchs are not happy with even that. Thus, we see a genocide in Palestine, labelling as terrorist and organization that opposes genocide in the UK, and, well, the USA.
If the left (or liberals) eschew violence all together, they will lose. Many, many millions of people, including children, have died because of that. Many millions more are on the verge of dying.
I have often thought about whether I could kill someone and my inclination is that I could not, even the most heinous monster. But when I think about that monster doing something to my late wife, I know I could kill for that. Beyond that, I'm lucky enough to have never been in that position and old enough that I probably never will be. But I'm not going to judge those who do kill monsters.