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William Paul's avatar

"Maybe my government is actually in the wrong here and is just lying and manipulating to advance its own interests?" I liked this line from Caitlin's article. Here's why:

I grew up in the 1980s when it was normal for people to think that government was tyrannical, clumsy, stupid, and vicious. Reagan said, "Government is not the solution to your problems. Government is the problem." He later said, "A nuclear war can never be won and should never be fought."

I wonder: what the hell happened to that skepticism? I think it got swallowed by stone-cold evil neo-con-artists like Bill Kristol, Victoria Nuland, and John Bolton. About Bolton, Trump said, "He wants to go to war with everybody!"

And W and Obama went right along with the neo-con attempts to kill millions and take over the world.

This is the biggest problem with every good movement whether it is on the left, right, or uncategorizable--it gets hijacked by pretenders/sociopaths like Bill Kristol, Victoria Nuland, & John Bolton.

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Subcomannder's avatar

The funny thing about quoting Reagan is the he paved the way for those Neo-cons and furthered US imperialist goals. Iran-Contra, arming the Taliban in Afghanistan for a proxy war with the USSR (sound familiar?), Panama, Libya, Persian Gulf...

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unwarranted's avatar

You are being swayed by looking for truth in a fake system. When Nixon won in a landslide, the Democrats were still a Party of disparate loyalties. Unions, laborers and professionals were all represented, but it had no corporate backers, and, if Jimmy Carter is viewed as an anomaly, the DP looked to be incapable of gaining the WH. Reagan’s two terms only cemented that perception. Then the Clintons happened, and the DP instantly became Republican-lite. If elections could change our trajectory, they’d be outlawed.

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William Paul's avatar

I partially agree, and partially disagree. I think our system is fake.

Fake food.

Fake pharma.

Fake jobs.

Fake, printed money.

Fake two-party system.

Senile president who is lucid when jacked up on adderall.

Fake cultural divisions meant to distract us.

A terrible education system.

A media system that re-enforces the dominant narrative.

And, as a side note, I oppose the Great Reset. I think they want us fat, sick, isolated, and depressed, so that they can extract as much economic value as possible from us, right before they kill us.

Since so much is fake, perhaps this is why 1/2 of America thinks the last election was stolen, and that many more elections have been stolen, as well.

If the election system were 100% transparent in America and other Western nations, my bet is that we would have a lot more peace, and a lot less paranoia and threats. But I can't prove that, of course. But I think all good things start with honesty, and all bad things begin with dishonesty.

Thank you for helping me think, Unwarranted.

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unwarranted's avatar

I doubt that the number of Americans that believe Trump won the last election is anywhere close to one-tenth let alone one-half. Trump’s inner circle in the WH all confirmed that Trump knew he didn’t win. He’s a con artist’s con artist.

If you view peace as a worthwhile aspiration, why in hell would you believe a word from a consummate liar whose only way of winning over supporters is to divide and put group against group? He champions the Christian Right because they have political sway, they are right-wing and fanatical, and loads of them are racists. And they vote as a bloc.

I don’t know what the numbers are, but many voters are learning that the whole process is a corporate theatrical production. Transparency would require that no money is involved, and TV ads are banned. It would also facilitate the formation of multiple parties. This is basic to any process looking to be seen as legitimate, and these things will never happen because the billionaires know that cannot win elections that cannot be controlled.

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CarbonCopy's avatar

Oh so right on the money! This is all the 20 pounds of shit in a 10 pound bag! Ask Ralph Nader and Jill Stein how they see the election process in this oh so democratic system! It's all controlled by a criminal organization that let's mass murders play war!

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William Paul's avatar

Well, I think your numbers are incorrect, and your labels are pejorative. But perhaps we can agree that we should both do whatever we can to avert a nuclear war.

I wish you well.

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unwarranted's avatar

I mean you no derision. If you love cheddar-head, that is on you. If you are an evangelical, how do you square the chasm between your professed beliefs and the pandering vitriol spewed from his crooked mouth? As for a war in our near future, I do believe it is the billionaires who see their global control at risk, and will risk all of us to defend it. Peace, Tim.

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