America has great principles to aspire to: freedom, justice, tolerance, democracy, social mobility, religious and political rights, scientific rationality, the public good, public lands, etc.
You want it? You gotta work for it, not whine about its failures.
None of these principles you speak of are an invention of the modern day America you speak of. All of these principles have been in practise in one form or another everywhere else, in ancient Mesopotamia, Persia, Greece, Rome, Inca empire, India, China, everywhere. Stop whitewashing the history.
I never claimed exclusive ownership of this principles, so don't put words in my mouth. And that's not whitewashing history - the so called US "founders" were creatures of the enlightenment and students of history.
That's why I urged Caitlin, in a separate comment, to Google JD Vance and the "Dark Enlightenment"
Again, I didn't put a single word in your mouth. You chose those words on your own accords. Anyone who reads it will assume what I have assumed. Stop using the big words like "freedom", "scientific rationality" for modern day America. What freedom? freedom to choose our leaders? What scientific rationality when majority of the Americans now believe that the universe is just a few thousand years old, Darwinism is a myth, evolution is a myth. People do want these things, who says they don't? But saying casually that "you gotta work for it" doesn't cut it. Nobody gave Black people the voting rights on a silver platter, they fought for it. Is that the kind of "working for it" you are referring to? All of these principles sounds great on paper, in theory but you need to have a government willing to work towards achieving these principles for the commoners, not shielding bit corporations and giving more rights to them than the average person.
Why do I sense you are a relatively young person? If you don't claim your angels, you are left only with your demons. Which constitute a half-truth of reality. Isn't it unwise to derogate the virtues that at one time were important enough to settlers and their progeny fleeing nations ruled by monarchies (authoritarians)to install them in the Constitution and Bill of Rights? Your protest holds important seeds for thought in it. It also is a testament to the fact some shreds of democracy still exist in the USA. I lived in Zaire (Congo) when Mobutu
was President. Were you to publish such a protest in kind in a visible publication, what do you suppose would happen to you, your family? So avoiding the "perfect", we are forced to face the gray area between the absolutes of all good and all bad. We live in between. As re science and rationality - it definitely distresses to witness the anti-intellectualism and replacement of rationality with emotionality that's in assent in a lot of quarters, especially the Trump world, a fact-free one. Isn't the integration of high values (freedom, justice, compassion, right-action, choice) whether in a macrocosm (a nation) or a microcosm (an individual) into functional governing structures (law) and (personal principles) a revolutionary process? Doesn't evolution always demand revolution? Choosing to let go of the old hollow illusions and opening to including what is missing? Your last sentence contains a critical insight. One that is at the base of our corruptability and corrupted institutions. Corporations worship one God: Materialism. Matter. Stuff. What happens when a corrupted species in Nature - like a tsunami of locusts - spreads over the earth? And after that happens, what happens next?
do you know what the word "aspire"means? I specifically said people had to fight for their principles and rights. Your interpretations are so perverse they must be in bad faith. And you don't get government to work without citizen activism.. I've never seen anyone more pervert my writings than the drivel you just spewed.
There’s a certain kind of contempt you have for the masses in your original comment, I am not sure if you can recognize it, otherwise you wouldn’t have framed your thoughts the way you did. I wanted to point it out and I did just that. No hard feelings. Peace to you.
"Contempt for the masses"? You mean where I said aspire to democracy and struggle ("fight")and engage activism to make government work? Those masses? Any "contempt" is your twisted interpretations of what I wrote. Likely a knee jerk attempt on your part to denounce "the shitlibs", but it ain't me babe!
Even the whiff of universal principles sets the cynical crowd off! Immediate assumption of either a Trumper or a SHitlib. No belief in anything, borderline nihilism.
Why do people have to work and fight for their rights? The animal group we are currently talking about are all people so why shouldn't we just have our rights, why shouldn't we just respect everyone's rights? Working and fighting for rights makes it sound as if there is some outside power or evil force, other than people, trying to take away our rights. All nationalists, in my view, are opposed to others' rights (others' being at least those from outside the national border), have a view that the artificial borders that form their countries provide them some privilege to which others are not entitled, and allow them to go anywhere and do anything in the name of protecting their own rights. America is certainly a leader in that regard.
The founders were elites who aspired to be ruling elites which they couldn’t be in their homeland. They installed a self-sustaining economy that kept the wealth in their hands and consigned the masses to hustling for the loose change. They feared majorities because majorities don’t revere privilege, and privileged is what they were.
The Founding Fathers™ were oligarchs who wanted America for themselves exclusively. They wanted to cut out the Brits and cunningly invented the whole "liberty" and "freedom" charade to engage the plebes. The narrative worked, and continues to this day. Just ask most Americans, jingos that they are.
Sorry, forgot you are an American too, billie. Forget what I just said, it's not for you.
Of course the "founders" were elite capitalist oligarch seeking got preserve their privilege and their property. Tell me something I don't already know. The simplistic line off my critics in the thread - and several otter's - confuse the principle from the interest or the person advocating it. Simple error in thinking.. No ability to deal with nuance.
Your comment suggested that America’s “great” principles can be achieved through hard work. I do hope that you continue to read Caitlin’s column religiously. Your regurgitation of empty propaganda is remarkable.
Years ago before the Marxist libtard Geouz totally dominated America, the KKK took permission to march in Chicago, and we're protected by the police as they marched in a geouwish neighborhood. Nobody cried about being threatened.
A Marxist cannot be a libtard (and a libtard cannot be a Marxist), and a Marxist (let alone a Socialist) has never dominated America. Please get your facts straight.
America has great principles to aspire to: freedom, justice, tolerance, democracy, social mobility, religious and political rights, scientific rationality, the public good, public lands, etc.
You want it? You gotta work for it, not whine about its failures.
None of these principles you speak of are an invention of the modern day America you speak of. All of these principles have been in practise in one form or another everywhere else, in ancient Mesopotamia, Persia, Greece, Rome, Inca empire, India, China, everywhere. Stop whitewashing the history.
I never claimed exclusive ownership of this principles, so don't put words in my mouth. And that's not whitewashing history - the so called US "founders" were creatures of the enlightenment and students of history.
That's why I urged Caitlin, in a separate comment, to Google JD Vance and the "Dark Enlightenment"
"the so called US "founders" were creatures of the enlightenment and students of history."
The founders were typically slave owners, and did everything that they could to further the genocide of Native Americans.
The fact that many were involved in the "enlightenment" (i.e. were atheists or deists) doesn't really make them all that wonderful.
look up the word "aspire" then get back to me.
Again, I didn't put a single word in your mouth. You chose those words on your own accords. Anyone who reads it will assume what I have assumed. Stop using the big words like "freedom", "scientific rationality" for modern day America. What freedom? freedom to choose our leaders? What scientific rationality when majority of the Americans now believe that the universe is just a few thousand years old, Darwinism is a myth, evolution is a myth. People do want these things, who says they don't? But saying casually that "you gotta work for it" doesn't cut it. Nobody gave Black people the voting rights on a silver platter, they fought for it. Is that the kind of "working for it" you are referring to? All of these principles sounds great on paper, in theory but you need to have a government willing to work towards achieving these principles for the commoners, not shielding bit corporations and giving more rights to them than the average person.
Why do I sense you are a relatively young person? If you don't claim your angels, you are left only with your demons. Which constitute a half-truth of reality. Isn't it unwise to derogate the virtues that at one time were important enough to settlers and their progeny fleeing nations ruled by monarchies (authoritarians)to install them in the Constitution and Bill of Rights? Your protest holds important seeds for thought in it. It also is a testament to the fact some shreds of democracy still exist in the USA. I lived in Zaire (Congo) when Mobutu
was President. Were you to publish such a protest in kind in a visible publication, what do you suppose would happen to you, your family? So avoiding the "perfect", we are forced to face the gray area between the absolutes of all good and all bad. We live in between. As re science and rationality - it definitely distresses to witness the anti-intellectualism and replacement of rationality with emotionality that's in assent in a lot of quarters, especially the Trump world, a fact-free one. Isn't the integration of high values (freedom, justice, compassion, right-action, choice) whether in a macrocosm (a nation) or a microcosm (an individual) into functional governing structures (law) and (personal principles) a revolutionary process? Doesn't evolution always demand revolution? Choosing to let go of the old hollow illusions and opening to including what is missing? Your last sentence contains a critical insight. One that is at the base of our corruptability and corrupted institutions. Corporations worship one God: Materialism. Matter. Stuff. What happens when a corrupted species in Nature - like a tsunami of locusts - spreads over the earth? And after that happens, what happens next?
do you know what the word "aspire"means? I specifically said people had to fight for their principles and rights. Your interpretations are so perverse they must be in bad faith. And you don't get government to work without citizen activism.. I've never seen anyone more pervert my writings than the drivel you just spewed.
There’s a certain kind of contempt you have for the masses in your original comment, I am not sure if you can recognize it, otherwise you wouldn’t have framed your thoughts the way you did. I wanted to point it out and I did just that. No hard feelings. Peace to you.
"Contempt for the masses"? You mean where I said aspire to democracy and struggle ("fight")and engage activism to make government work? Those masses? Any "contempt" is your twisted interpretations of what I wrote. Likely a knee jerk attempt on your part to denounce "the shitlibs", but it ain't me babe!
Even the whiff of universal principles sets the cynical crowd off! Immediate assumption of either a Trumper or a SHitlib. No belief in anything, borderline nihilism.
Why do people have to work and fight for their rights? The animal group we are currently talking about are all people so why shouldn't we just have our rights, why shouldn't we just respect everyone's rights? Working and fighting for rights makes it sound as if there is some outside power or evil force, other than people, trying to take away our rights. All nationalists, in my view, are opposed to others' rights (others' being at least those from outside the national border), have a view that the artificial borders that form their countries provide them some privilege to which others are not entitled, and allow them to go anywhere and do anything in the name of protecting their own rights. America is certainly a leader in that regard.
I most certainly did not assume what you have assumed, A M, and I assume that I am not alone.
The founders were elites who aspired to be ruling elites which they couldn’t be in their homeland. They installed a self-sustaining economy that kept the wealth in their hands and consigned the masses to hustling for the loose change. They feared majorities because majorities don’t revere privilege, and privileged is what they were.
The Founding Fathers™ were oligarchs who wanted America for themselves exclusively. They wanted to cut out the Brits and cunningly invented the whole "liberty" and "freedom" charade to engage the plebes. The narrative worked, and continues to this day. Just ask most Americans, jingos that they are.
Sorry, forgot you are an American too, billie. Forget what I just said, it's not for you.
Of course the "founders" were elite capitalist oligarch seeking got preserve their privilege and their property. Tell me something I don't already know. The simplistic line off my critics in the thread - and several otter's - confuse the principle from the interest or the person advocating it. Simple error in thinking.. No ability to deal with nuance.
Your comment suggested that America’s “great” principles can be achieved through hard work. I do hope that you continue to read Caitlin’s column religiously. Your regurgitation of empty propaganda is remarkable.
There is a recent Tucker interview with Cernovich. A bit long, but full of spiritual, and consciousness ideas.
The lobbyists own the country. Money has destroyed America
🤦♂️
Years ago before the Marxist libtard Geouz totally dominated America, the KKK took permission to march in Chicago, and we're protected by the police as they marched in a geouwish neighborhood. Nobody cried about being threatened.
A Marxist cannot be a libtard (and a libtard cannot be a Marxist), and a Marxist (let alone a Socialist) has never dominated America. Please get your facts straight.