Wow. The discussion between you and jamenta is way over my head.
May I suggest you guys figure out how to contact one another and write a paper on this, then dumb it down into a book "the rest of us" might comprehend?
May I also suggest that "so much junk" is a rather pejorative dismissal of the point.
Nice idea, tall order. But I have to disagree with you about "so much junk " because what it is is a biologist's expression of the superiority of living systems to anything technological. Why? Simple. Living systems recycle/ are regenerative and integrative; so far, tech mostly rips up the planet and pollutes. So if it's pejorative, it was certainly not toward jamenta; it's directed at many other members of our species, who unlike indigenous people tend to see tech as superior, largely ignoring its failure to attend to those natural principles that guided most indigenous societies. The reason, of course, why we find ourselves up against the climate/biosphere pauperization wall.
OK. Speaking of the superiority of living systems: A full-grown woman is a living system. She is not dependent on any other life form for her survival. A small "clump of cells" IS. A MAN has no right, human right, natural right, nor lawful right, to tell a women what she can or cannot do with her own body. That is the bottom line here. Whether or not someone else is COMFORTABLE with choices made by a woman in regard to HER OWN BODY is irrelevant. It's not something to vote on, or scientifically explain the wonders of. We're talking about CIVIL RIGHTS. To suggest that men have bodily autonomy but women do not, is illogical, immoral, illegal, and stupid.
I agree with your civil rights posture and your solid objections to misogyny! I'd just clarify that all animals, including humans of all reproductive status, are ultimately dependent upon photo- or chemo-synthetic organisms for biomolecular energy sources & minerals, as well as his or her resident microbiomes of bacteria and fungi. No consumer organism is independently existing in Nature. And for producers like green plants, they don't ultimately do well without the recycling bacteria and mutualistic fungi in soil. Sorry, but real independence is not represented in Nature. So why are you resistant to the science? It's just a related line of discourse to your valid arguments; I don't perceive the perspectives as mutually exclusive.
Yeah, good. I don't really care that much in the context of whether men think they get to order women around. Your accusation that I am "resistant to the science" is a logical fallacy. There is no "science" that tells us that women should be dominated by men. Why are you so determined to use big words and illogical arguments to tell me otherwise?
Why are you so trapped in your single mindedness. I don't require a response. Think about it. The entire using big words piece is patently irrelevant bullshit. Have a nice life.
And by the way, real independence is absolutely represented in Nature... how does a MALE have anything to do with birth, besides dropping the seed? After that, you fellers can run off, as you fairly often do.
Wow. The discussion between you and jamenta is way over my head.
May I suggest you guys figure out how to contact one another and write a paper on this, then dumb it down into a book "the rest of us" might comprehend?
May I also suggest that "so much junk" is a rather pejorative dismissal of the point.
Nice idea, tall order. But I have to disagree with you about "so much junk " because what it is is a biologist's expression of the superiority of living systems to anything technological. Why? Simple. Living systems recycle/ are regenerative and integrative; so far, tech mostly rips up the planet and pollutes. So if it's pejorative, it was certainly not toward jamenta; it's directed at many other members of our species, who unlike indigenous people tend to see tech as superior, largely ignoring its failure to attend to those natural principles that guided most indigenous societies. The reason, of course, why we find ourselves up against the climate/biosphere pauperization wall.
OK. Speaking of the superiority of living systems: A full-grown woman is a living system. She is not dependent on any other life form for her survival. A small "clump of cells" IS. A MAN has no right, human right, natural right, nor lawful right, to tell a women what she can or cannot do with her own body. That is the bottom line here. Whether or not someone else is COMFORTABLE with choices made by a woman in regard to HER OWN BODY is irrelevant. It's not something to vote on, or scientifically explain the wonders of. We're talking about CIVIL RIGHTS. To suggest that men have bodily autonomy but women do not, is illogical, immoral, illegal, and stupid.
I agree with your civil rights posture and your solid objections to misogyny! I'd just clarify that all animals, including humans of all reproductive status, are ultimately dependent upon photo- or chemo-synthetic organisms for biomolecular energy sources & minerals, as well as his or her resident microbiomes of bacteria and fungi. No consumer organism is independently existing in Nature. And for producers like green plants, they don't ultimately do well without the recycling bacteria and mutualistic fungi in soil. Sorry, but real independence is not represented in Nature. So why are you resistant to the science? It's just a related line of discourse to your valid arguments; I don't perceive the perspectives as mutually exclusive.
Yeah, good. I don't really care that much in the context of whether men think they get to order women around. Your accusation that I am "resistant to the science" is a logical fallacy. There is no "science" that tells us that women should be dominated by men. Why are you so determined to use big words and illogical arguments to tell me otherwise?
Why are you so trapped in your single mindedness. I don't require a response. Think about it. The entire using big words piece is patently irrelevant bullshit. Have a nice life.
Okay, bye! xo
And by the way, real independence is absolutely represented in Nature... how does a MALE have anything to do with birth, besides dropping the seed? After that, you fellers can run off, as you fairly often do.