When I am asleep I don't know I exist, when not dreaming...what constitutes 'consciousness' here? Unborn fetus's respond to all kinds of stimuli. Some prospective parents sing, talk etc. to the unborn...and there is research to suggest this is advantageous to the development...Science harmonises with the Bible in telling us when human life begins (at conception) but it is a human debate as to who decides and when to decide that that life should be respected.
Your stance is that you know the right answer and refuse to consider other perspectives. How is that helpful?
The Thunderbolts Project (you posted elsewhere) doesn't answer when the "consciousness" manifests itself within the brain ("radio") of the fetus.
Sure, if people want to think about this kind of thing, fine. It might help them decide where they stand on abortion.
I'm in no way denying psychic phenomena. I have an opinion on it, but that in no way can be applied to the question of when a fetus, or for that matter a human being, becomes conscious.
IOW, your point is totally orthogonal to the question.
Posting youTubes without explanation is pretty much a waste of your time. Out of courtesy I went to those videos and found them to be disconnected to the content of Caitlin's article. What was I suppose to "get" out of it.
Oh, waaah. There are no "opposite poles." There is ONE thing: Women's rights. Just because you don't like it, it doesn't mean you're RIGHT.
When society starts talking about making decisions, on a CONTINUUM, about when men need to have vasectomies, maybe that will wake you up, but I doubt that's gonna happen.
Insulting someone you disagree with doesn't make your case work.
I think it more likely consciousness is a fundamental aspect of reality, and at some point, makes the decision to enter a growing physical structure. But (obviously) this is my own metaphysical/spiritual leanings at the moment. I have no proof either way this is absolutely the case.
That is why I think the most important point Caitlin makes in her essay here is that the State has no right to dictate to the rest of us an ideology which is only based on a metaphysicial belief system not every citizen in the US subscribes too, and that we are not free if we are subjugated to someone else's religious/metaphysical beliefs - no matter how much they think they are right and/or their God has spoken to them about it.
"I think. Therefore, I am," Descartes. The only thing we know for certain is our own existence.
Does a fetus know it exists?
People are sentient. Fetuses are not.
Does an 18 month old baby know it exists?
It is my understanding that in some societies, the answer is "no" up to 3 years old.
Just pushing the boundary of the discussion not trying to suggest it as a solution.
When I am asleep I don't know I exist, when not dreaming...what constitutes 'consciousness' here? Unborn fetus's respond to all kinds of stimuli. Some prospective parents sing, talk etc. to the unborn...and there is research to suggest this is advantageous to the development...Science harmonises with the Bible in telling us when human life begins (at conception) but it is a human debate as to who decides and when to decide that that life should be respected.
Doesn’t make those societies objectively correct.
Who ever said it did?
Your stance is that you know the right answer and refuse to consider other perspectives. How is that helpful?
The Thunderbolts Project (you posted elsewhere) doesn't answer when the "consciousness" manifests itself within the brain ("radio") of the fetus.
Sure, if people want to think about this kind of thing, fine. It might help them decide where they stand on abortion.
I'm in no way denying psychic phenomena. I have an opinion on it, but that in no way can be applied to the question of when a fetus, or for that matter a human being, becomes conscious.
IOW, your point is totally orthogonal to the question.
I was just showing you something, I wasn’t trying to talk about the fetus.
Then you should have said so.
Posting youTubes without explanation is pretty much a waste of your time. Out of courtesy I went to those videos and found them to be disconnected to the content of Caitlin's article. What was I suppose to "get" out of it.
So now we've both wasted time to no benefit.
Eighteen-m-o babies do not get aborted, since they're already "out."
Says you.
Great job on displaying the arrogance that the extremists apply to the opposite poles of this issue.
Oh, waaah. There are no "opposite poles." There is ONE thing: Women's rights. Just because you don't like it, it doesn't mean you're RIGHT.
When society starts talking about making decisions, on a CONTINUUM, about when men need to have vasectomies, maybe that will wake you up, but I doubt that's gonna happen.
Insulting someone you disagree with doesn't make your case work.
There ya go again, proving the definition of idiot.
Well, I can see that trying to talk to little children is futile.
What do little children do when their argument is shite? They insult the other. Buh bye.
I think it more likely consciousness is a fundamental aspect of reality, and at some point, makes the decision to enter a growing physical structure. But (obviously) this is my own metaphysical/spiritual leanings at the moment. I have no proof either way this is absolutely the case.
That is why I think the most important point Caitlin makes in her essay here is that the State has no right to dictate to the rest of us an ideology which is only based on a metaphysicial belief system not every citizen in the US subscribes too, and that we are not free if we are subjugated to someone else's religious/metaphysical beliefs - no matter how much they think they are right and/or their God has spoken to them about it.
When a baby is murdered in the womb, is it not being subjected to the metaphysical belief system of the mother?
What is consciousness?
No.
The fetus has no consciousness.
Prove you have consciousness. Until you do, you're a clump of cells.
Consciousness is the first and only obvious fact of my existence. Everything else in fact, remains unproven.
Prove you're sentient.
Prove you have a right to control another human being.